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Pramxnim
2009-05-18, 12:32 PM
Tattooed Monk
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e123/No_SushiVN/Foot_and_fist.jpg

Brother Rakto of the Tattoed Monk Order

The Tattooed Monks are an elusive order of warriors and who seek strength and enlightenment through the application of numerous magical tattoos on their bodies. These tattooes grant them supernatural and spell-like abilities that give them an edge over their more martial-minded brothers. Their mystic nature also allows them to pursue some rather atypical paths compared to other monks.

Abilities
Wisdom is the primary ability score for a Tattooed Monk, it influences his AC and determines the DC for many of his class abilities (Tattoos, Stunning Fist etc.). Constitution is always an important ability, and Strength and Dexterity are important for those who wish to be front line warriors. Intelligence provide some much needed skill points, and Charisma influences some of his class skills and certain Tattoo abilities.

Races
Tattooed Monks come from all races, but those races with more tolerance to the arcane arts are more likely to become members of this class.

Alignment
Magic in itself has no alignment. There is no restriction to the alignment of a Tattooed Monk.

Class Skills
The Tattooed Monk's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skills Points at 1st Level: (4 + int) x 4
Skill Points at each additional level 4 + Int

Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Tattoos Possessed

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Least Tattoo, Masterful Strike, AC Bonus, Monastery Training|1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist|2

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Evasion|2

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Masterful Strike +1d6|3

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Deceive Item|4

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Lesser Tattoo|5

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Agility|5

8th|
+6|
+2|
+6|
+6|Piercing Strike (3)|6

9th|
+6|
+3|
+6|
+6|Masterful Strike +2d6|6

10th|
+7|
+3|
+7|
+7|Tattoo Fusion|7

11th|
+8|
+3|
+7|
+7|Greater Tattoo, Improved Tattoo Resilience|8

12th|
+9|
+4|
+8|
+8|Piercing Strike (6)|9

13th|
+9|
+4|
+8|
+8|Imbue Item|9

14th|
+10|
+4|
+9|
+9|Masterful Strike +3d6|10

15th|
+11|
+5|
+9|
+9|Agility|11

16th|
+12|
+5|
+10|
+10|Master Tattoo, Piercing Strike (9)|12

17th|
+12|
+5|
+10|
+10|Agility|12

18th|
+13|
+6|
+11|
+11|-|13

19th|
+14|
+6|
+11|
+11|Masterful Strike +4d6|13

20th|
+15|
+6|
+12|
+12|Grand Tattoo Mastery, Piercing Strike (12)|14
[/table]

Class Features

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: Tattooed monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling.

Tatooed monks are not proficient with any armour or shields.

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the tattooed monk (TM) adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC, up to a maximum of his class level (this does not stack with abilities that also add Wisdom to AC (such as Monk or Swordsage levels, as well as the Saint Template from BoED)). In addition, a TM gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five TM levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the TM is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Masterful Strike: A TM gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat at 1st level. Additionally, his unarmed strike damage improves to 1d4 for Small TMs, 1d6 for Medium TMs, and 1d8 for Large TMs. At 4th level and every 5 levels thereafter, a TM deals 1d6 extra damage when he hits with a successful unarmed strike. The extra damage from masterful strike is the same type as his unarmed strike damage. It applies even in grapples and is not multiplied when a critical hit is scored.

Monastery Training: A TM is considered a Monk for all purposes related to feats, items and abilities that affect monks.

Tattoos: Over the course of his career, a TM continues to scribe magical tattoos onto his body to augment his abilities. These are always Supernatural abilities unless otherwise stated. Tattoos can be hidden at will as a free action, but a specific tattoo will reveal itself when activated (continuously active tattoos can remain hidden forever), and even hidden tattoos are visible to someone with True Seeing.
Each tattoo has different abilities, but all tattoos conform to the following rules:


A TM's caster level whenever he uses his tattoos is equal to his TM level. He may qualify for prestige classes that have a caster level requirement.
The save DC for an ability derived from tattoos (if applicable) is always Wisdom based.
Prestige classes that progress spellcasting also increase a TM's level for purposes of tattoos possessed, grade of tattoos available and caster level.
The activation of a tattoo is a move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity unless otherwise stated.



The four grades of tattoos, in order of their relative power, are least, lesser, greater, and master. A TM begins with knowledge of one tattoo, which must be of the lowest grade (least). As a TM gains levels, he learns new tattoos, as summarized on the above table and described further below. A list of available tattoos can be found following this class description.
At any level when a TM learns a new tattoo, he can also replace an tattoo he already knows with another tattoo of the same or a lower grade. At 6th level, a TM can replace a least tattoo he knows with a different least tattoo (in addition to learning a new tattoo, which could be either least or lesser). At 11th level, a TM can replace a least or lesser tattoo he knows with another tattoo of the same or a lower grade (in addition to learning a new tattoo, which could be least, lesser, or greater). At 16th level, a TM can replace a least, lesser, or greater tattoo he knows with another tattoo of the same or a lower grade (in addition to learning a new tattoo, which could be least, lesser, greater or master).


Stunning Fist: At 2nd level, the TM gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A TM with the Stunning Fist feat may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his TM level +3, plus one additional time per day for every four levels he has in non-TM classes, but no more than once per round.

Improved Grapple: At 2nd level, TMs gain Improved Grapple as a bonus feat.

Evasion (Ex): At 3rd level a TM can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the TM is wearing no armor. A helpless TM does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Ki Strike (Su): At 5th level, a TM's unarmed attack, special monk weapons and natural attack have the potential to be imbued with magical energy from his tattoos. He gains a pool of enhancement bonuses equal to the number of tattoos he possesses that may be distributed among his unarmed attack, special monk weapons or natural attacks. The moment this ability is gained, he has a net total of 4 enhancement bonuses to be distributed. He must select one type of special monk weapon or one type of natural attack to apply the bonus to.
The maximum enhancement bonus a TM may have on one of his forms of attacks is equal to 1/4 his class level.
Upon gaining a natural weapon or holding a special monk weapon, a TM may choose to distribute any spare enhancement bonus to it, so long as he does not exceed the limit of enhancement bonus on one form of attack. Otherwise, redistributing enhancement bonuses require 1 hour of quiet meditation.

Agility (Ex): At 7th level, a TM may move at incredible speeds. His base land speed increases by 20ft. At 15th and 17th level, his base land speed increases by a further 5ft. At 17th level, he gains the ability to produce strong bursts of speed. As a swift action every 1d4 rounds, he may move up to his base land speed.

Piercing Strike (Ex): At 8th level, when using an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon (but not a natural attack), a TM may ignore 3 points of damage reduction of any type (except for DR/Epic) whenever he inflicts damage. At 12th level he may ignore 6 points of damage reduction when inflicting damage. At 16th level he may ignore 9 points of damage reduction when inflicting damage, and at 20th level he may ignore up to 12 points of damage reduction when inflicting damage. This ability also allows the bypassing of an objects hardness.

Tattoo Fusion (Ex): At 10th level, a TM learns to better utilize his tattoos in tandem. He is counted as having 2 extra tattoos for the purpose of effects generated by his tattoos, for the number of times per day he may use his tattoos and for the number of enhancement bonuses granted by his Ki Strike ability. In addition, 1/day, as a swift action, he may activate 2 tattoos at the same time.

Improved Tattoo Resilience (Ex): At 11th level, the TM's tattoos grow more resistant to the forces that would seek to unravel them. Even in places where magic effects do not normally function (such as within an antimagic field), a TM can attempt to sustain his tattoos by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the TM maintains his tattoos for a number of rounds equal to his caster level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the tattoos are suppressed for as long as he remains in the field and 1d4 rounds afterwards. As a move action on his turn, the TM can attempt a new Will save to restore his tattoos' abilities while he remains within the magic negating effect.

Improved Ki Strike (Su): At 13th level, a TM's Ki Strike ability improves. The maximum limit of bonuses he can put on one form of attack is now equal to 1/2 his TM level, though the actual enhancement bonus is still limited to 1/4 his TM level. He may now assign special weapon abilities to his forms of attacks. These special abilities are chosen at the beginning of the day and cannot be changed during the course of that day. A TM may now redistribute enhancement bonuses (but not special abilities) after 10 minutes of quiet meditation.

Example: Rakto the tattooed monk reaches level 13 and gains Improved Ki Strike. He is counted as having 11 tattoos, so he has a pool of 11 enhancement bonuses to distribute, with a limit of a +6 total bonuses on one form of attack (but only 3 of those can be enhancement bonuses)
Rakto chooses to imbue his unarmed attacks with a +3 enhancement bonus (the maximum allowed) and the Shocking Burst special ability, within the limit of +6 total bonus.
Later on, Rakto activates the Tiger tattoo to gain 2 rake attacks. As part of the action to activate this tattoo, he chooses to assign a +3 enhancement bonus to each of the rake attacks. He has now assigned all the bonuses in his pool.
Later still, Rakto activates the Wolf tattoo to gain a bite attack. He cannot assign any enhancement bonus to his bite attack since he has no spare bonuses remaining. He then meditates for 10 minutes, and chooses to redistribute his bonuses. He now has a +3 enhancement bonus on his bite attack, a +3 enhancement bonus and the Shocking Burst property on his unarmed attacks, and a +3 enhancement bonus on one of his rake attacks.


Grand Tattoo Mastery(Ex): At 20th level, a TM is truly a master of his tattoos. He gains the following benefits:


He may now use his Tattoo Fusion ability 3 times per day to activate 3 tattoos at the same time.
The numerical limit imposed on the bonuses granted by Least Tattoos is increased to 10 (So now a 20th level TM with the Crab tattoo has DR 10/-)
The caster level and DC for a TM's tattoo abilities is increased by 1

Pramxnim
2009-05-18, 12:33 PM
Tattoo list

Least Tattoos
Least tattoos that are use-activated have a number of daily uses equal to the amount of tattoos possessed (maximum 8/day)

Arrowroot: A character with this tattoo can heal wounds in another character by touch. Each day, he gains a pool of energy equal to his Wisdom bonus ◊ his caster level. As a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, he may use energy from that pool to cure a number of hit points equal to the amount expended. A tattooed monk may divide the curing among multiple recipients, and he doesnít have to use it all at once.

Bear: A character with this tattoo is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Allies within 10 feet of him gain a morale bonus on their saving throws against fear effects equal to the TM's Wisdom bonus (if any). As a free action usable a number of times per day equal to the number of tattoos he possesses, a TM may expand this aura's range to 30ft for 1 round.

Crab: A character with this tattoo gains DR/magic equal to the number of tattoos he possesses (with a limit of DR 8). If he possesses 8 or more tattoos, this improves to DR/adamantine and magic. If he possesses 16 tattoos, this improves to DR/-.

Dragonfly: A character with this tattoo may activate it as an immediate action (or as a free action, usable once per round, on his turn) to gain a dodge bonus to AC equal to the number of tattoos he possesses for 2 rounds.

Falcon: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Listen, Search and Spot checks for 10 minutes per caster level (maximum +8). He gains an additional +4 bonus to one of the three skills above or gain the effects of See Invisibility, chosen upon activation.

Lion: A character with this tattoo may activate it as a free action to attempt a smite on a single attack. He adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his attack roll and deals an extra amount of damage equal to his caster level. The TM must declare the smite before making the attack. A missed attack uses up the attempt.

Monkey: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Climb, Jump and Tumble checks for 10 minutes per caster level (maximum +8). He gains an additional +4 bonus to one of the three skills above or gain the effects of Spider Climb, chosen upon activation.

Owl: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Concentration checks, all Knowledge checks and Sense Motive checks for 10 minutes per caster level (maximum +8). In addition, he is considered trained in all knowledge skills for the duration of this ability.

Serpent: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Information checks for 10 minutes per caster level. He gains an additional +4 bonus to one of the three skills above or gain the ability to cast Mirror Image once within the duration of this ability, chosen upon activation.

Weasel: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Balance, Hide, and Move Silently checks for 10 minutes per caster level (maximum +8). He gains an additional +4 bonus to one of the three skills above or gain the effects of Expeditious Retreat, chosen upon activation.


Lesser Tattoos
Lesser tattoos that are use-activated have a number of daily uses equal to 1/2 the amount of tattoos possessed (rounded up)

Ant: A character with this tattoo may activate it to add 1/3 the number of tattoos he possesses (rounded up) as an untyped bonus to his Strength score. This benefit lasts for 1 round per caster level.

Bamboo: A character with this tattoo may activate it to add 1/3 the number of tattoos he possesses (rounded up) as an untyped bonus to his Constitution score. This benefit lasts for 1 round per caster level.

Bat: A character with this tattoo may activate it to add 1/3 the number of tattoos he possesses (rounded up) as an untyped bonus to his Dexterity score. This benefit lasts for 1 round per caster level.

Bellflower: A character with this tattoo may activate it to add 1/3 his Charisma score as an untyped bonus to any of his ability scores (including Charisma, maximum +6). Only 1 ability score may benefit from this ability at a time, and the bonus does not stack with those granted by the Ant, Bamboo, Bat and Butterfly tattoos. This benefit lasts for 1 round per caster level.

Butterfly: A character with this tattoo may activate it to add 1/3 the number of tattoos he possesses (rounded up) as an untyped bonus to his Wisdom score. This benefit lasts for 1 round per caster level.

Chameleon: A character with this tattoo may activate it to create an Alter Self effect. This benefit lasts for 1 hour/caster level.

Crane: A character with this tattoo gains a gradual immunity to bodily decay. When he first gains this tattoo, he gains immunity to nonmagical diseases. If he has 6 tattoos, he then acquires immunity to poison. If he has 9 tattoos, he no longer take ability score penalties for aging, and he cannot be magically aged.

Hummingbird: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a Fly speed equal to his base land speed at good maneuverability. This ability lasts for 1 hour per caster level.

Nightingale: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain an Invisibility (self only) effect. This benefit lasts 1 hour per caster level.

Scorpion: A character with this tattoo may use Bestow Curse as a Spell-Like Ability. Even if an opponent makes the save, it still suffers a -1 penalty to attack rolls for 1 minute.

Spider: Instead of a stunning fist attack, a character with this tattoo can make an attack that delivers a contact poison. The poisonís save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 TM class level + his Wis modifier. The poisonís initial and secondary damage is 2 points of Constitution damage. Using this tattoo counts as one of the characterís stunning fist attacks for that day.

Wasp: A character with this tattoo may activate it to use haste on himself. This ability lasts for 1 round per caster level.


Greater Tattoos
Greater tattoos that are use-activated have a number of daily uses equal to 1/3 the amount of tattoos possessed (rounded up)

Flame: A character with this tattoo may activate it to generate a barrier of flames that deals 10 point of fire damage to all targets adjacent to him. This damage triggers whenever a character enters or is forced to enter an affected square and again at the beginning of a target's turn. This ability lasts for 1 round per 2 caster levels.

Metal: A character with this tattoo may activate it as a standard action to unleash tiny metallic shards that pierce through armour. This is a 60-ft line attack that reduces either armour bonus to AC, natural armour or damage reduction by an amount equal to 1/2 the number of tattoos you possess. If the target has more than 1 type of damage reduction, choose one of them to reduce. The reduction lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the number of tattoos you possess. Targets are entitled to a Reflex saving throw to reduce said amount by half, with a DC = 10 + 1/2 TM level + Wisdom modifier.
Special: Multiple uses of this ability reducing the same type of armour does not stack with itself, only the higher reduction applies. You may, however, reduce the armour bonus of your foes in one round and their natural armour bonus in another round and those effects would stack.

Moon: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain the effects of a Bite of the Wereboar spell (Spell Compendium, p28). The effect lasts for 1 round per caster level or until dismissed.

Mountain: A character with this tattoo may activate it as a free action on his turn to take on the immovability of a mountain for as much as 1 round per caster level, gaining phenomenal durability though he cannot move from the spot where he stands. He gains a +4 bonus to his Constitution score, a +4 to Natural Armour and a +2 resistance bonus on all saves. The increase in Constitution increases the tattooed monkís hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away when the abilityís duration expires or when the character chooses to end it (a free action). These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are. While using this ability, the tattooed monk takes a Ė20 penalty on any Dexterity-based skill checks. He is immune to bull rush and trip attacks.
If he possesses 12 or more tattoos, a TM may make a 5-ft adjustment each round without ending the ability. He is also considered to have the the reach of a tall creature one size larger (up to Huge) for the duration of this ability. This increase in reach does not stack with any other feat, spell, spell-like ability, supernatural ability, racial feature, or class feature that increases your reach.

Oak: A character with this tattoo gains Spell Resistance equal to 15 + His TM level. He may switch this SR on or off at will with an immediate action or with a free action on his turn (usable once per round).

Ocean: A character with this tattoo never needs to eat, sleep, drink or breathe. In addition, once per day, he may meditate for 10 minutes to regain all uses of his Least and Lesser tattoos.

Sun: A character with this tattoo may activate it as a standard action to unleash a dazzling flash of sunlight. You may target all creatures in a 30-ft Cone with this ability, and they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 TM level + Wis mod) or be blinded for 2d4 rounds. Even if they make the save, they are still blinded for 1 round.
Special: Undead caught in the blast are affected as if by a Searing Light spell. They may make a Reflex save at the same DC for half damage.

Tempest: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain the ability to make an extra attack with an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon at his highest base attack bonus in a full attack. In addition, he may make a full attack on a charge. This benefit lasts for 1 round per caster level.

Thorns: A character with this tattoo may cast Greater Dispel Magic as a Spell-Like Ability. Any creature with an active spell effect dispelled by this ability takes 2 damage per level of the spell effect (no save).

Thunder: A character with this tattoo may activate it as a standard action to generate a thunderous roar. This ability is 30-ft burst centred on the TM. All targets in the affected area are entitled to a Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 TM level + Wis mod) or be knocked back to the edge of the radius and take 2d4 Sonic damage for every square (5-ft) traveled. If they fail the saving throw by 5 or more, they are knocked prone (but still knocked back). A successful saving throw negates the knockback effect and halves the damage, unless the target has Evasion (in which case they negate the damage). Someone with Improved Evasion who fails the saving throw still gets knocked back (and possibly be knocked prone), but only takes half damage.


Master Tattoos
Master tattoos that are use-activated have a number of daily uses equal to 1/4 the amount of tattoos possessed (rounded up)

Basilisk: The legendary Basilisk's gaze can turn living creatures to stone. A character with this tattoo may activate it as a standard action to perform a Petrifying Gaze attack, which permanently turns opponents to stone. The save DC for this ability is 12 + 1/2 TM level + Wis. In addition, he may now expend a use of Stunning Fist to deliver a contact poison that does 1d10 Constitution primary and secondary damage, with the same save DC as the Petrifying Gaze ability.

Behemoth: The Behemoth is a mighty beast of legends. A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain the following benefits for 1 round per caster level:

+16 Enhancement bonus to Strength, +6 Enhancement bonus to Fortitude Saves, Natural Armour improves by 6
You gain a Gore attack that deals 2d8 damage and two secondary Claw attacks that deal 2d6 damage if you are a Medium creature (adjust the damage for TMs of different sizes)
Mighty Build: The TM may function in many ways as if he were two size categories larger (up to Gargantuan). Whenever subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check, the TM is treated as two size categories larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A TM is also considered two size categories larger when determining whether a creature's special attack based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A TM with this tattoo activated may use weapons designed for a creature two sizes larger without penalty. The benefits of this trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells which change the subject's size category.
When you reach TM level 18, you gain the feats Improved Bullrush and Improved Overrun as bonus feats. When you reach TM level 20, you gain Awesome Blow as a bonus feat.

Tentative revision

Leviathan: The legendary serpent Leviathan is an unstoppable force of the seas. A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain some of the Leviathan's fearsome abilities. He gains the following abilities for 1 round per caster level:

+12 Enhancement bonus to Strength, +4 Enhancement bonus to Fortitude saves, Natural Armour improves by 4
You gain a Bite attack that deals 2d6 damage and two secondary Tail Slap attacks that deal 1d8 damage if you are a Medium creature (adjust the damage for TMs of different sizes)
A swim speed equal to twice his base land speed.
The ability to use Tsunami (Spell Compendium p224) 1/day as a Spell-Like Ability (multiple uses of this ability within the same day does not grant additional uses of Tsunami).
You gain the feats Power Attack and Swim-By Attack (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Swim-by_Attack,Sto) as bonus feats.

Tentative revision

Lich: The unholy Lich represents the very pinnacle of evil. A character with this tattoo has a constant Magic Circle against Good effect active, except that the bonuses it grants is equal to 1/2 the number of tattoo he possesses (and it may be suppressed as a free action). In addition, he may use Harm as a Spell-Like Ability.

Phoenix: The legendary Phoenix rises from its own ashes to begin life anew. A character with this tattoo may perform a sacred rite that allows her to return from the dead. The rite lasts for 8 hours, and the TM must expend 2500 experience points. The rite's effects last until it is dismissed or discharged.
While under the protection of this rite, the TM receives the benefit of the True Resurrection spell whenever he dies (whether by reaching -10 hp, negative levels etc.), coming back from the dead in a spectacular display of arcane fire. He may delay this benefit for as long as 1 hour / caster level, after which he must rise from the dead. The rite's protection is discharged once it is triggered, and the TM must perform a new rite to use this ability again. This tattoo may only be gained at 18th or 20th level.

Unicorn: The legendary Unicorn's blood contains miraculous healing properties. A character with this tattoo has a constant Magic Circle against Evil effect active, except that the bonuses it grants is equal to 1/2 the number of tattoo he possesses (and it may be suppressed as a free action). In addition, he may use Heal as a Spell-Like Ability.

Pramxnim
2009-05-18, 12:35 PM
Alternative Class Features

Heritage Tattoos
Heritage tattoos are a way to further customize the Tattooed Monk and adding some flavour by hearkening to his ancestry.
If you choose this Alternative Class Feature, you gain one of the Least Heritage Tattoos listed below at 1st level. At 6th and 11th level, instead of gaining a new tattoo known, you improve upon the design of the Heritage Tattoo chosen at 1st level. You are still considered to have a number of tattoos equal to the number on the class table for the purposes of determining effects based on the number of tattoos you possess. At 16th level, you gain a Master Heritage Tattoo based on the Least Heritage Tattoo chosen at 1st level.

Least Heritage Tattoos

Celestial Sigil: You gain Celestial Sorcerer Heritage (PHB II p90) as a bonus feat, and your TM levels count as Sorcerer levels for the purpose of learning Celestial Sorcerer Feats. As you learn more tatttoos, you gain more Celestial Sorcerer Feats, up to a maximum number equal to 1/2 your tattoos known. . If there are no more feats to learn, you are still considered to have that number of Celestial Sorcerer Heritage feats for the purpose of determining effects based on that number (i.e. A 20th level TM with Celestial Sigil will gain +8 bonus on saves against electricity and petrification). You add the [Good] descriptor to all your Supernatural and Spell-Like Abilities (this ability can be suppressed at will as a free action).
Special: For Celestial Sorcerer Feats that require you to sacrifice a spell slot (or that activates after a spell is used), you may sacrifice a daily use of one of your tattoos instead. The equivalent spell level is equal to 1/2 your TM level, with a limit of 2nd level for Least Tattoos, 4th for Lesser Tattoos, 6th for Greater Tattoos and 9th for Master Tattoos. The save DC for these abilities is Wisdom based. The feat Celestial Sorcerer Lore allows you to use each of the spells available as spell-like abilities 1/day
Special: You may not have this tattoo if you already possess either the Dragon Mark, Fey Sigil, Fiend Brand or Infernal Brand tattoos. Once chosen, you may not switch this tattoo out for another tattoo.

Dragon Mark: You gain Draconic Heritage as a bonus feat, and your TM levels count as Sorcerer levels for the purpose of learning Draconic Feats. As you learn more tatttoos, you gain more Draconic Feats, up to a maximum number equal to 1/2 your tattoos known.
Special: For Draconic Feats that require you to sacrifice a spell slot (or that activates after a spell is used), you may sacrifice a daily use of one of your tattoos instead. The equivalent spell level is equal to 1/2 you TM level, with a limit of 2nd level for Least Tattoos, 4th for Lesser Tattoos, 6th for Greater Tattoos and 9th for Master Tattoos. The save DC for these abilities is Wisdom based. The feat Draconic Legacy allows you to use each of the spells available as spell-like abilities 1/day.
Special: You may not have this tattoo if you already possess either the Fey Sigil, Fiend Brand, Celestial Sigil or Infernal Brand tattoos. Once chosen, you may not switch this tattoo out for another tattoo.

Fey Sigil: You gain Fey Heritage (Complete Mage p43) as a bonus feat. As you learn more tattoos, you gain more feats with Fey Heritage as a prerequisite, up to a maximum number of feats equal to 1/2 your tattoos known. If there are no more feats to learn, you are still considered to have that number of feats with Fey Heritage as a prerequisite for the purpose of determining effects based on that number (i.e. A 20th level TM with Fey Sigil will gain DR 8/Cold Iron).
Special: You may not have this tattoo if you already possess either the Dragon Mark, Fiend Brand, Celestial Sigil or Infernal Brand tattoos. Once chosen, you may not switch this tattoo out for another tattoo.
Special: Your caster level and the DC for special abilities granted by your tattoos that allow for a saving throw benefit from Fey Power as if they were Warlock Invocations.

Fiend Brand: You gain Fiendish Heritage (Complete Mage p43) as a bonus feat. As you learn more tattoos, you gain more feats with Fiendish Heritage as a prerequisite, up to a maximum number of feats equal to 1/2 your tattoos known. If there are no more feats to learn, you are still considered to have that number of feats with Fiendish Heritage as a prerequisite for the purpose of determining effects based on that number (i.e. A 20th level TM with Fiend Brand will gain Acid and Fire Resistance 24).
Special: You may not have this tattoo if you already possess either the Dragon Mark, Fey Sigil, Celestial Sigil or Infernal Brand tattoos. Once chosen, you may not switch this tattoo out for another tattoo.
Special: Your caster level and the DC for special abilities granted by your tattoos that allow for a saving throw benefit from Fiendish Power as if they were Warlock Invocations.

Infernal Brand: You gain Infernal Sorcerer Heritage (PHB II p90) as a bonus feat, and your TM levels count as Sorcerer levels for the purpose of learning Infernal Sorcerer Feats. As you learn more tatttoos, you gain more Infernal Sorcerer Feats, up to a maximum number equal to 1/2 your tattoos known. . If there are no more feats to learn, you are still considered to have that number of Infernal Sorcerer Heritage feats for the purpose of determining effects based on that number (i.e. A 20th level TM with Infernal Brand will gain +8 bonus on saves against fire and poison). You add the [Evil] descriptor to all your Supernatural and Spell-Like Abilities (this ability can be suppressed at will as a free action).
Special: For Infernal Sorcerer Feats that require you to sacrifice a spell slot (or that activates after a spell is used), you may sacrifice a daily use of one of your tattoos instead. The equivalent spell level is equal to 1/2 you TM level, with a limit of 2nd level for Least Tattoos, 4th for Lesser Tattoos, 6th for Greater Tattoos and 9th for Master Tattoos. The save DC for these abilities is Wisdom based. The feat Infernal Sorcerer Knowledge (homebrew) allows you to use each of the spells available as spell-like abilities 1/day.
Special: You may not have this tattoo if you already possess either the Dragon Mark, Fiend Brand or Celestial Sigiltattoos. Once chosen, you may not switch this tattoo out for another tattoo.


Master Heritage Tattoos

Celestial: A character with this tattoo further manifests angelic powers. You gain feathered wings and can fly at twice your base land speed with good maneuverability. In addition, you may activate it to gain the Half-Celesital template for 1 round / caster level, with the following notes:

You do not gain the Spell-like abilities of the template. Instead your Celestial Sorcerer Lance ability deals 3d6 per spell level.
The caster level and DC increase of Celestial Sorcerer Power increases to +2 instead of +1.

Special: You must have the Celestial Sigil tattoo to learn this tattoo.

Devil: A character with this tattoo further manifests devilish powers. You gain bat wings and can fly at twice your base land speed with good maneuverability. In addition, you may activate it to gain the Half-Fiend template for 1 round / caster level, with the following notes:

You do not gain the Spell-like abilities of the template. Instead your Infernal Sorcerer Howl ability deals 3d6 per spell level.
The caster level and DC increase of Infernal Sorcerer Power increases to +2 instead of +1.

Special: You must have the Infernal Brand tattoo to learn this tattoo.

Dragon: A character with this tattoo further manifests draconic powers. You sprout draconic wings and can fly at twice your base land speed with good maneuverability. In addition, you may activate it to gain the Half-Dragon template (Monster Manual, p146) for 1 round / caster level, with the following notes:

You do not gain the Breath Weapon of the template. Instead, the damage of your Draconic Breath feat (if you have it) increases to 3d6/Spell level.
If you have the Draconic Claw feat, your Bite and Claw attacks deal damage like those of a creature two sizes larger (2d6 Bite and 2d6 Claw for a Medium-sized creature).
You retain all benefits that a Dragonblooded creature might have, despite being of Dragon type.

Special: You must have the Dragon Mark tattoo to learn this tattoo.

Fey: A character with this tattoo further manifests fey-like powers. You gain butterfly wings and can fly at twice your base land speed with good maneuverability. In addition, you may activate it to gain the Half-Fey template for 1 round / caster level, with the following notes:

You do not gain the Spell-like abilities of the template. Instead, you may use the spell-like abilities granted by the Fey Presence and Fey Legacy feats 3 times per day
The caster level and DC increase of Fey Power increases to +2 instead of +1.

Special: You must have the Fey Sigil tattoo to learn this tattoo.

Fiend: A character with this tattoo further manifests fiend-like powers. You gain bat wings and can fly at twice your base land speed with good maneuverability. In addition, you may activate it to gain the Half-Fiend template for 1 round / caster level, with the following notes:

You do not gain the Spell-like abilities of the template. Instead, you may use the spell-like abilities granted by the Fiendish Presence and Fiendish Legacy feats 3 times per day
The caster level and DC increase of Fiendish Power increases to +2 instead of +1.

Special: You must have the Fiend Brand tattoo to learn this tattoo.

Pramxnim
2009-05-19, 03:09 AM
Changelog:
I didn't really keep a changelog till this point, but... oh well. Let's just say the class went through numerous revisions since it was first posted. I'll add any newer changes from here on in this spoiler block.

05/21/09:
Fixed numerous tattoo abilities as per Cieyrin's suggestions. The metal tattoo was reworded extensively to account for multiple possibilities. Nerfed the Moon tattoo to giving only Bite of the Wereboar.
Swapped the Hummingbird and Nightingale tattoos (I mixed them up during the write-up).
Added the Lich Master Tattoo.
Fixed the wording on Tattoo Fusion and changed Grand Mastery back to Grand Tattoo Mastery.
Made tentative revisions on Behemoth and Leviathan Master tattoos. Now Behemoth is almost identical to the Druid shapeshift form of the same name from The Demented One's Battle Shifter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74521) class, with a few minor adjustments.

05/26/09: Added the Weapons and Armor Proficiency section. Can't believe I didn't do it before.
05/29/09:
Fixed the Mountain Tattoo to avoid players abusing it with Aberrant Reach to create insane reach monsters.
Made some revisions on the number of tattoo uses per day.
Generalized the wordings of tattoo abilities.
Buffed the Ocean tattoo.
Added the Ant tattoo.

06/01/09:

Significantly nerfed the Natural Armour bonus on the Behemoth and Leviathan tattoos dues to balance issues (unlike shapeshifting, magical items work while the tattoo is activated, thus the previous values of 16 and 12 were too strong)
Major tattoo update! 12 (!!!) new Least tattoos were added, bringing the total count up to 27 tattoos (well, 23 if you want to count the 5 least heritage tattoos as 1). 8 more to go!
Replaced Deceive Item and Imbue Item with Ki Strike and Improved Ki Strike.
Buffed the Phoenix tattoo by cutting the gold cost to use it altogether.
Buffed the Bellflower tattoo, hopefully making it a viable choice.
Fixed the wording on multiple tattoos, again to achieve a more uniform wording on all tattoos.



Credits:

A few of the abilities here are either lifted as is or slightly modified from Jane Smith's Variant Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108954) class, most notably Piercing Strike, Masterful Strike and Incredible Speed. Many thanks for allowing me to use them here, Jane!

Credit goes to razor1n for some early input on the class' balance (by trying his best to optimize the class to ridiculous levels, as is the norm for him :smallbiggrin:)

Huge credit goes to my cousin for some really cool inputs on tattoo abilities. I managed to finish most of the higher grade tattoos with his help (even though he's never played D&D before :smallamused:)

Credit goes to anyone who's commented thus far (and those who may or may not come to comment in the future). Thanks to Cieyrin for coming up with some solid suggestions!


Extras
Here's a link to the new heritage feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112011) meant to supplement this class. Gee that's a lot of Draconic Feats Wizards came up with, eh? Saves me the trouble of making up my own. Dragons are well loved.

Future updates will include:

More Tattoos: Currently, in Complete Arcane, Complete Mage and Dragon Magic, there are a total of 31 Least, 30 Lesser, 25 Greater and 15 Dark Invocations of all kinds. I aim to get to that number of tattoos, if not more. Help is always appreciated. If you feel like making your own tattoos, please do so and submit them here. I'll try to implement the ones that look fun and balanced.
Tattoo fixes: Point out where tattoos are underpowered/overpowered compared to the general unoptimized power level where it is gained and compared to other tattoos of the same grade, and I shall do my best to fix them.
Tattoo mechanics: It has been pointed out to me that the tattoo mechanics are awkward as written. If there are enough opinions like this that are backed up with convincing arguments, I will change the mechanics to a more streamlined one that should be easier to understand.

Cieyrin
2009-05-20, 12:01 PM
Wow, impressive rebuild of the original. I loved the flawed stepchild of Complete Warrior (which seemed to have been caught in the frustration between its parents, 3.0 and 3.5), for it provided a unique way of customizing your monk character into different directions and you definitely kept that spirit in mind. There are a couple of humbugs and points of contention, at least in my mind, that may need some clarity and/or improvement.

Having the class masquerade as a caster type through their tattoos doesn't seem to roll w/ me. I mean, any PRC they could get into by using their tattoo granted caster level probably wouldn't provide anything for them, as what good is advancement in casting ability when they have none to begin with? It just seems a rather odd design decision to have something like that. I say just convert any mentions of caster level back to class level and leave it at that.

Along those lines, why delve into Warlock territory with Deceive and Imbue Item? I can see this hearkens to some Warlock heritage with its structure but it's too far removed from that to really benefit from them. This class seems aimed at the mystic warrior, not the pact maker gaining some easy magic, y'know? It just feels like an addendum that doesn't really add to the whole. Purging the last remains of Warlock from the class and making it more the alternate path to enlightenment monk seems more in line with the goal of the class.

Stunning Fist having variable dependent stats for the DC also seems weird, when all other mystical boosts are Wisdom-based. Being able to hit somebody harder or more acurately, while it makes some sense, doesn't really flow with the rest of the class, sort of an artifact left over from Jane's Variant Monk. Probably should stick it to Wisdom as the sole dependent, as this class requires that supreme sense of insight to work, as evidenced with the Tattoo powers being dependent on it as well.

Now, into the actual tattoos themselves. My first qualm is with the Heritage Tattoos, which give vastly more power than the other tattoos, given they eventually end up with you having a feat tree for free. And all this for the cost of 1 tattoo (2, if you get the Master-level tattoo, which you'd be foolish not to get if you went with this path). It seems like a no-brainer type decision, which it is. As such, it should probably absorb more tattoo slots, as your growing power with it increases, so that a Tattooed Monk that chose not to go with a Heritage path is more on par with one who had. I'd recommend it perhaps taking 1 tattoo slot per mastery level available, so it costs 1 at Least, another at Lesser and so on till you hit 4 slots at Master level. Getting the cap stone Heritage will cost its own slot, though it 's fine at its cost, as it's on par with the other Master-level tattoos.

The Bear least tattoo seems the odd bird out, as it requires Charisma to determine its final bonus, which would make this class more MAD than it should otherwise be. It should probably probably be Wisdom-based, as this class isn't a Paladin and shouldn't be treated as such for having a similar ability. Consider the Wisdom bonus as having greater insight into the tattoo's design and making it more effective in generating its effect, much like the Arrowroot tattoo through off its Paladin heritage.

Kudos on the rest of the Least tattoos, especially Crab, which is more or less essentially useless once you hit a certain power level, when everybody and their brother carries magic weapons or can otherwise pierce DR/Magic. Dragonfly is also well orchestrated with the usage of the immediate action, a resource unavailable in CW. The skill tattoos are also fairly nice with the choice of either an ability or further increasing of competence bonus.

No problem with the Lesser Tattoos, which seem fairly balanced. I do have a quandary or 2 with Greater Tattoos, though, starting with the Metal Tattoo's effect. How long is that Armor/DR reduction supposed to last? Number of Tattoos in rounds? Half TM level in rounds? Till end of encounter? Till repaired (how you repair your hide, you got me ~_~).

Thorns doesn't describe to me the effect it does. An eclipse would be more in line, even with the minor damage that comes with the shredded spell effect(s). When I think of thorns, I'd imagine more of a melee combat deterrent to make foes pay for striking you foolishly. That's just me, anyways.

I also have issue with a few of the Master tattoos. For Phoenix, it seems strange that a) you only get access at 20th and b) it costs you money and experience to get your contingent True Res. While a very powerful effect, that seems like the kind of thing you could learn regardless of character class, since it's essentially a ritual that anybody would want. It doesn't really seem like the same flavor of tattoo abilities aim the character to be doing. If you want it as a capstone ability, just make it one, don't beat around the bush on whether it is or not, since it clearly is.

For Unicorn, how often do you get to Heal? Is it the Master Tattoo Usage limit?

Between Leviathan and Behemoth, Leviathan seems the weaker of the 2, as the only thing Leviathan really has over Behemoth is 4 more points of NA, which isn't saying much. Maybe it's just b/c i don't really know the Tsunami spell but you only get it 1/day, regardless of tattoo usage limits, which doesn't compare to the bonuses Behemoth gets, double Leviathan's Strength bonus and Mighty Build. Fear the 16th level Goliath Tattooed Monk with this Tattoo, for he is the Gargantuan-sized Medium creature! >=D Unmovable, Unstoppable, Unbeatable!

My only other qualm is that the Tiger Tattoo didn't make the conversion, as it was one of my favorites. As it originally was, it would dig into Masterful Strike territory but it would have been seen something for it. I suppose I'll just have to depend on its spiritual successor, the Tempest tattoo.

Them's my 2 copper. Take as you will.

wadledo
2009-05-20, 12:40 PM
I've just skimmed this, but I got to say, very cool.
You might want to increase masterful strike to 4 and every 4th levels, because otherwise it gets wayyyyy behind, even with the Tempest Tattoo, which in itself should probably be bumped up to 11th level monk (the point in which there are no attack negatives).
Other than that, there are no glaring flaws.

Pie Guy
2009-05-20, 09:43 PM
Do you get to activate your tatoo seperately with each having their own amount daily activation limit (each least having seven activations, etc.) or is it a pool of activations?

Pramxnim
2009-05-20, 11:34 PM
Ok, first of all, let me start of by thanking all of you for commenting. I spent a lot of time designing (and adapting designs) for this class and working out the kinks for it, so I'm really grateful that you had useful critiques and questions for me. They'll certainly help me clear up things and make this class more balanced and fun to play. I'll try my best to address all your concerns, starting from the least numerous ones :smallbiggrin:

@ Pie Guy: Each tattoo has a separate daily activation limit, taking into account the Tattoo Fusion ability gained at level 10 (e.g. 1-8/day for Least Tattoos). The mechanics for tattoos are loosely based on Warlock Invocations (some tattoos are very similar to them, such as the Hummingbird and Nightingale tattoos, whose effects are almost identical to Walk Unseen and Fell Flight). The difference is that most tattoos are supernatural abilities and require a Move action to activate, unlike Warlock Invocations that are Spell-Like Abilities subject to Arcane spell failure and require standard actions to activate. That is why I've limited the amount of times per day they may be used, but still kept it at a certain high number (at high levels) so they may remain viable throughout the day.

Another reason for this is because daily pools can be abused quite often, and I'm too lazy to try and balance it :smalltongue:.

@ Wadledo: There are two reasons why I made Masterful Strike the way it is. I had a certain design in mind that would prevent any dead levels from seeping into the class (Level 18 is not a dead level since the TM learns a new Master Tattoo then), and I don't want to change that (the class' abilities have gone through several revisions already). Also, since the TMs get +4d8 at level 20, which does slightly more damage on average than the +5d6 that Jane's Variant Monk gets (but the class only gets a pseudo-Flurry that is not active all the time, so that's fine). Even so, I am considering scrapping that damage boost, as TMs are not primary combatants. Rather, they are hybrid supporters who can handle themselves in various situations and have useful abilities that can benefit their allies (such as the Bear tattoo, the Mountain tattoo etc.)

As for the Tempest tattoo, it is already a level 11 and above ability (it is a Greater tattoo, and thus only a level 11 or higher TM may learn it).

I'll respond to Cieyrin's post in another post, since there are so many points to address.

Pramxnim
2009-05-21, 12:25 AM
Wow, Cieyrin, that's a lot of effort you put into that comment there. It's constructive criticism like this that really helps homebrewers improve their work. I'll do my best to address your concerns.


I mean, any PRC they could get into by using their tattoo granted caster level probably wouldn't provide anything for them, as what good is advancement in casting ability when they have none to begin with? It just seems a rather odd design decision to have something like that. I say just convert any mentions of caster level back to class level and leave it at that.

There are several reasons why I chose to do this. I'll list them out below:

Caster levels are a simple mechanic to make calculations with, and it does not discourage multiclassing and PrCing too much.
I really love heritage feats and tattoos and since they have a caster level increasing mechanic, I decided to go with caster level for simplicity's sake (so that I don't have to make another Special section for them and bending the rules yet again)
It's another way of acknowledging the Warlock (where several of this class' abilities are derived from)
It's a way to provide some PrC support for the class. Most homebrew classes with unique or variant mechanics don't see a lot of PrC support unless you homebrew PrCs for them. I did this as a way for TMs to fit better into the game without introducing too many homebrew elements.

Prestige classes that progress spellcasting also increase a TM's level for purposes of tattoos possessed, grade of tattoos available and caster level.
Last but not least, it provides an easy to calculate mechanic for people trying to dispel your tattoos (yes, they can be dispelled)



My first qualm is with the Heritage Tattoos, which give vastly more power than the other tattoos, given they eventually end up with you having a feat tree for free

That's also a concern of mine. I first thought heritage feats were mostly for flavour and are not too powerful, but I've done some mucking around with them to bring them up to par, and now getting 8 feats for the price of 1 Least Tattoo IS too much.


As such, it should probably absorb more tattoo slots, as your growing power with it increases, so that a Tattooed Monk that chose not to go with a Heritage path is more on par with one who had. I'd recommend it perhaps taking 1 tattoo slot per mastery level available, so it costs 1 at Least, another at Lesser and so on till you hit 4 slots at Master level.

A very solid suggestion. It shall be implemented (but I will only sacrifice a Lesser and Greater slot, the Least and Master slots are used to learn the tattoos themselves. In total, it will cost 4 tattoos to learn the whole chain). I'll make it an Alternative Class feature so people can see it more clearly.


The Bear least tattoo seems the odd bird out, as it requires Charisma to determine its final bonus, which would make this class more MAD than it should otherwise be. It should probably probably be Wisdom-based, as this class isn't a Paladin and shouldn't be treated as such for having a similar ability.

It's a good idea, fluff-wise, but I've already powered it up in my own way by making the bonus equal to Cha + 1/2 tattoos (although it could get silly strong). Perhaps I will cut the dependence on the number of tattoos for this ability and just change the ability mod to Wis instead.



Kudos on the rest of the Least tattoos, especially Crab, which is more or less essentially useless once you hit a certain power level, when everybody and their brother carries magic weapons or can otherwise pierce DR/Magic.

I made it so that the Crab tattoo granted DR/Adamantine and Magic at 11th level (so it would take an +1 Adamantine weapon or more to get through it) and DR/- at 20th. It doesn't get left behind, I don't think.


Dragonfly is also well orchestrated with the usage of the immediate action, a resource unavailable in CW. The skill tattoos are also fairly nice with the choice of either an ability or further increasing of competence bonus.

Why thank you! :smallsmile:


... Metal Tattoo's effect. How long is that Armor/DR reduction supposed to last? Number of Tattoos in rounds? Half TM level in rounds? Till end of encounter? Till repaired (how you repair your hide, you got me ~_~).

Oops :smalltongue:, I forgot about that. I'll reword the tattoo and add in the duration (I'll make it 1/2 number of Tattoos in rounds).


Along those lines, why delve into Warlock territory with Deceive and Imbue Item?

They're mainly to fill out dead levels (and provide some more utility with UMD).


Purging the last remains of Warlock from the class and making it more the alternate path to enlightenment monk seems more in line with the goal of the class.

I'm stumped. Any suggestions?


Stunning Fist having variable dependent stats for the DC also seems weird, when all other mystical boosts are Wisdom-based. Probably should stick it to Wisdom as the sole dependent, as this class requires that supreme sense of insight to work, as evidenced with the Tattoo powers being dependent on it as well.

Rawr. Will do.


Thorns doesn't describe to me the effect it does. An eclipse would be more in line, even with the minor damage that comes with the shredded spell effect(s). When I think of thorns, I'd imagine more of a melee combat deterrent to make foes pay for striking you foolishly. That's just me, anyways.

Hmm, nice suggestion. I originally thought of Thorns and Oak as plant-related, and since plants are resistant to magic, I thought of making them offensive and defensive measures to fight casters. An Eclipse may explain the lost of buffs, but I really wanted to make it more offensive than that, and Thorns seem like an ok name. I'm open to any plant-themed suggestions though!


I also have issue with a few of the Master tattoos. For Phoenix, it seems strange that a) you only get access at 20th and b) it costs you money and experience to get your contingent True Res. While a very powerful effect, that seems like the kind of thing you could learn regardless of character class, since it's essentially a ritual that anybody would want. It doesn't really seem like the same flavor of tattoo abilities aim the character to be doing. If you want it as a capstone ability, just make it one, don't beat around the bush on whether it is or not, since it clearly is.

Ah, the Phoenix tattoo... It fits the flavour so well, and the original Phoenix tattoo was so weak that I had to make it a contingent True Res. However, that made it too powerful and I had to put restrictions on it (and inadvertently making it a level 20 only ability). I didn't make it a capstone because I believe people should always have a choice.

The XP and gold costs are based on the expensive material components for the True Res spell, and the ritual is based on the Spirit Shaman's Favour of the Companions class ability (which is a contingent Heal that costs 1000 XP to set up in place). It has to be there or else the ability would be too powerful. Besides, what is 2500 XP and 12500 GP to a high level character?

Perhaps I will make it a level 18 ability. Would that still make it too powerful?


For Unicorn, how often do you get to Heal? Is it the Master Tattoo Usage limit?

Yes indeed, that would be 3/day from 16th-19th, and 4/day at 20th.


Between Leviathan and Behemoth, Leviathan seems the weaker of the 2, as the only thing Leviathan really has over Behemoth is 4 more points of NA, which isn't saying much. Maybe it's just b/c i don't really know the Tsunami spell but you only get it 1/day, regardless of tattoo usage limits, which doesn't compare to the bonuses Behemoth gets, double Leviathan's Strength bonus and Mighty Build. Fear the 16th level Goliath Tattooed Monk with this Tattoo, for he is the Gargantuan-sized Medium creature! >=D Unmovable, Unstoppable, Unbeatable!

Well, both are based loosely on the Shapeshift Druid's (PHB II, p40) abilities of a similar nature. Actually, they are both weaker than those. I should make some changes to bring them up to par with those.

The Shapeshift Druid's Elemental Fury Form provided 2 size increases, a pair of slam attacks that deal 2d6 damage, +16 Str, +4 Fort, Ref, Will, +16 Natural Armor, immunity to Critical hits and Great Cleave. This can be achieved via a swift action at will. However, you can't use magical items OR cast spells during that time. The TM CAN make use of his magical items (since he doesn't shift per se) and MAY activate other tattoos during the duration...

Hmm, it would be difficult to get a nice balance with this. I'll keep what you said in mind about these two particular tattoos and will do my best to revise them.


My only other qualm is that the Tiger Tattoo didn't make the conversion, as it was one of my favorites. As it originally was, it would dig into Masterful Strike territory but it would have been seen something for it. I suppose I'll just have to depend on its spiritual successor, the Tempest tattoo.


Ah, sorry about that. It just doesn't fit the theme I had for the tattoo grades. Those are:


Least Tattoos: Mostly Predators and Mammals (with the exception of Arrowroot and Dragonfly, but those are from the original class, and I didn't want to change their names)
Lesser Tattoos: Mostly Insects, Plants and Birds (with the exception of Bat, Chameleon and Crane, but that's another nod to the original class that I didn't want to change)
Greater Tattoos: Forces of Nature
Master Tattoos: Monsters of Legend


And that's it for now, folks! Expect revisions to come soon, and another bump to signify it.

Spoilered due to length of response.

Pramxnim
2009-05-29, 04:06 AM
A friendly bump for comments please. I've made a lot of changes regarding the tattoos, and I'd love for someone to comment on the balance of the Master Tattoos.

Cheers,

EENick
2009-05-29, 11:44 AM
Just My Opinion here:

One the tattoo system of number of tattoos for almost everything feels a little awkward particularly since it doesn't use strait numbers. I like the idea but I think it could be refined a little to make it easier to pick up and use.

I'm personally of the opinion you would do well to simply take down the power level a bit of the tattoos and then double the amount they get. Using the tattoos is really what this class begs to do and the way you got it set up now they get to do it rarely until the higher levels but they are bit over powered with what they do.

I see them as sort of one note fighter mages. They are so limited in their selection that it seems like they'll end up using pretty much the same 2 or 3 powers every single fight. Now there isn't anything wrong with that I suppose, I know wizards to always have the same spells memorized, but I think giving them more options would be good. I'd like to see these guys using abilities in fights even at the lower levels. I'd probably start them with at least two least tattoos in fact.

Right now some like the Crab stand out so much it seems like you would be a fool not to take them over minor bonuses to skills checks so I see only a handful of different tattoo monks actually being played. With so few tattoo choices and some pretty clear winners and loosers I don't imagine many of these tattoos will even be used.

Over all I like it as an alternate build to the monk but I think it needs to be refined a little. Still the concept is great!

Pramxnim
2009-05-29, 11:59 AM
Thank you for your input. How would you go about changing the tattoo activation system? I was thinking making the bonuses equal to the number of tattoos, but capping off at a certain point (like the cap that is established right now for a lot of them) so that it gives more power to the class at earlier levels without increasing the power level at higher levels.

Please do elaborate on where you feel the clear winners and losers are in terms of tattoos.

The tattoo system is homage to the old Tattoo Monk prestige class, but I set it like that to prevent the tattoos from being overpowered. Now that someone has pointed out that they still are overpowered, I'd like to know why and where so I may make amends.

Which 2 or 3 powers do you see them use every single fight? I could certainly change the rate at which tattoos are learned to boost them at lower levels. I tried making one for a pbp game I will soon take part in but I realise some of the main class feature is quite weak at that level. Also, fights aren't everything. I designed this class to function well in a lot of situations, with mostly utilities to help the party and itself.

If you think Crab stands out, then let me assure you that DR/Magic can be easily overcome, and the value is not so large at low levels that it can be a problem. From 10-20, it'll be a bit harder to overcome, and at 20th it finally becomes DR 8/-, but that's not very impressive considering the damage getting tossed around at that level.

The skill check bonuses may be minor, but each of those tattoos give additional benefits in terms of minor buffs that you may have on you each time you activate the tattoo. Sometimes those are more valuable than simple Damage Reduction.

I like your idea on giving the class more tattoos at earlier levels. I will have to check with my current DM to see if he thinks that is overpowered, but it can be done.
I'm glad you think the selection is still limited and needs to be expanded. I based the tattoos and tattoo progression off of Warlock Invocations, and I realise that there are not as many tattoos as there are invocations. This can be amended, but I would like some more input like yours before I go about making new ones.

In fact, if anyone has ideas for new tattoos, I'd love to hear them. Just keep in mind that they should follow the general power level of an invocation of equal grade, while being based off the number of tattoos you possess (the power of a tattoo may be a bit more than an invocation of equal level due to the limited use per day you get).

EENick
2009-05-29, 02:43 PM
Thank you for your input. How would you go about changing the tattoo activation system? I was thinking making the bonuses equal to the number of tattoos, but capping off at a certain point (like the cap that is established right now for a lot of them) so that it gives more power to the class at earlier levels without increasing the power level at higher levels.

That really depends on the feel you want. Honestly I'd probably either make it either more use per day by group like with sorcerers or spell levels or go for a point system like Psi.

If you want to be different and plan on keeping the number of tattoos low you could give each one a different recharge time and build that into their power level sort of like 4th edition or some MMOs. A powerful one might be once per day while a weaker one might be usable every round or ever 4 rounds if you want don't want to just follow the 4E system.


Please do elaborate on where you feel the clear winners and losers are in terms of tattoos.

Right now:


Least Tattoos
Arrowroot: Winner (This thing should always be able to heal at least half your hit points unless you have a mad constitution score that is pretty darn good for one action which doesn't require spell checks in combat.)

Bear: Winner (depending on the setting)

Crab: Winner damage reduction is good until you get close to epic levels and even then it certainly doesn't hurt.

Dragonfly: Decent

Falcon: Looser, just can't stack up.

Lion: Decent

Monkey: Looser. Magic items will take care of this.

Owl: Decent. Being suddenly an expert on every subject while not very flashy is one a you can abuse a LOT in a RP heavy game but worthless in hack and slash.

Serpent: Looser. These are not Monk activities. Mirror images goes down hard in higher levels.

Weasel: Decent


Lesser Tattoos
Bamboo: Winner. Bonus hit points combined with healing are major winners even if the bonus HP goes last.

Bat: Decent.

Bellflower: Looser. Let the bards use charisma.

Butterfly: Winner! Wisdom is so freaking useful to this class it is not even funny you would offer someone charisma instead of this.

Chameleon: Decent. Enhances the Monk's scouting ability for sure but largely over shadowed by the winners except for RP heavy adventures.

Crane: Looser. Immunity to poison comes to late to be much good with even with a weak fort save. Magic will make up for it.

Hummingbird: Looser. Flight does you little good as melee class. Anything you could get here you can pick up with alter self.

Nightingale: Looser, unless it is improved invisibility.

Scorpion: Winner. Powerful debuff that can't be removed? Clever monks will find good ways to use this.

Spider: Looser.

Wasp: Decent but overshadowed by other abilities.


Greater Tattoos

Flame: Decent

Metal: Looser. If you've got curse you really don't need this. You can make up your own curses after all to drop their armor class unless you GM hates you. This will only get better then curse at the highest levels.

Moon: Meh.

Mountain: Decent but not really worth it. People will just back off and attack you from range if you are playing in a world where people know the class and have half a brain.

Oak: Winner. Spell resistence better then the standard monks? Yes please.

Ocean: Looser. These rarely are major factors in a game. You can already shapeshift into an animal to fly or breath water. Why would you need this?

Sun: Winner. Even Goku knew this was a winner and he was dumb as a box of rocks.

Tempest: Looser.

Thorns: Winner.

Thunder: Decent but given the problems this could cause for a party probably a looser. Great for a scout character though.

Master Tattoos

Basilisk: Instant Kill? Decent

Behemoth: A sllightly stripped down wildshape? Almost certainly a winner.

Leviathan: Again wildshape.

Lich: Looser. Not enough evil players. Just seems like this is there to screw over PCs fighting NPCs.

Phoenix: Winner and Looser. I can see the value here when you are planning on fighting Venca but seriously who plans on dying? Self Res is just not an ability you should probably give PCs for RP reasons.

Unicorn: Winner. The character gets to heal 150 points a round (probably all this hit points) AND gets a CoP. This will weaken a bit in Epic Levels but still.



If you think Crab stands out, then let me assure you that DR/Magic can be easily overcome, and the value is not so large at low levels that it can be a problem. From 10-20, it'll be a bit harder to overcome, and at 20th it finally becomes DR 8/-, but that's not very impressive considering the damage getting tossed around at that level.

The skill check bonuses may be minor, but each of those tattoos give additional benefits in terms of minor buffs that you may have on you each time you activate the tattoo. Sometimes those are more valuable than simple Damage Reduction.

Minor Buffs won't do you any good at the higher levels. Damage Reduction will.


I like your idea on giving the class more tattoos at earlier levels. I will have to check with my current DM to see if he thinks that is overpowered, but it can be done.

I'm speaking more themeatically then from a view point of balance. If I'm a tattoo monk I want to be using all sorts of tattoos. Just like if I'm a warblade I want to be using my stances and manuvers right from the start. Consider either dropping some of your monk abilities or replacing them with Tattoos. Evasion for example could easily become a tattoo you could take for those who want it rather then a mandatory power. You already moved Diamond soul into this catagory.

Pramxnim
2009-05-29, 11:22 PM
Hmm, I feel that you make some valid points, and yet others I feel are not valid enough. Here's what I think based on your observations (and from my experience frequenting the char ops a lot)


That really depends on the feel you want. Honestly I'd probably either make it either more use per day by group like with sorcerers or spell levels or go for a point system like Psi.

If you want to be different and plan on keeping the number of tattoos low you could give each one a different recharge time and build that into their power level sort of like 4th edition or some MMOs. A powerful one might be once per day while a weaker one might be usable every round or ever 4 rounds if you want don't want to just follow the 4E system.

A recharge time sounds nice. I'd like to hear a few more opinions before I act on this though. In my mind I pictured the number of uses to balance out the tattoos' powers well enough, but I guess we'll have to see it in test games to be sure.
Also, a Warlock gets even less invocations than a TM and he functions just fine (a few people think that's underpowered, but I don't wanna make the TM overpowered compared to it or they will complain). I might have to increase the number of uses per day for the tattoos to make them more reliable though.


Least Tattoos



Arrowroot: Winner (This thing should always be able to heal at least half your hit points unless you have a mad constitution score that is pretty darn good for one action which doesn't require spell checks in combat.)


This is Lay on Hands, and it functions the same way. How is it any better than Lay on Hands (which is not, I'm afraid, very useful at higher levels, where action economy is needed)?


Bear: Winner (depending on the setting)

There are so many ways to replicate this with magic, I hardly think it's that useful. It's more a homage to the old PrC than anything else. Useful, yes, but I wouldn't take it over any other tattoo at every given chance.



Crab: Winner damage reduction is good until you get close to epic levels and even then it certainly doesn't hurt.


Please see my argument concerning DR.



Falcon: Looser, just can't stack up.

I disagree. Bonuses to Listen and Spot are always nice. You can get up to +8 to 3 skills (more than a Warlock's Beguiling Influence, that's for sure), either +12 to 1 or get See Invisibility. That's hardly useless. Perhaps I'll make the duration in minutes per level (or even 10 minutes per level) to make the bonuses more noticeable.


Monkey: Looser. Magic items will take care of this.

I don't see many people sinking their money into magic items for skill bonuses (except for those who really focus on one skill or another), and a climb speed is useful at lower levels.



Owl: Decent. Being suddenly an expert on every subject while not very flashy is one a you can abuse a LOT in a RP heavy game but worthless in hack and slash.

Point taken. But it fuels Knowledge Devotion, remember.



Serpent: Looser. These are not Monk activities. Mirror images goes down hard in higher levels.

I think you mean Minor Image. This is more for RP purposes than anything else. Agreed that the power level is not high, but look at the Warlock's Beguiling Influence. It grants a +6 bonus to 3 skills, and it is highly regarded as one of the more useful invocations. The Serpent tattoo provides a bit more of a bump to three skills, and/or a minor magical ability that you can exhibit during the duration. Only the duration is the problem, and perhaps I will boost that. (and make Minor Image into Mirror Image, but then I like to see players get crafty with low level spells).


Lesser Tattoos



Bamboo: Winner. Bonus hit points combined with healing are major winners even if the bonus HP goes last.

Dunno where you're getting the healing, but yes, more Con is nice.



Bellflower: Looser. Let the bards use charisma.

Again, an old relic from the past. I don't like it either, but hey, you gotta have the less useful ones to contrast the cream of the crop.



Butterfly: Winner! Wisdom is so freaking useful to this class it is not even funny you would offer someone charisma instead of this.

Yes, I fully concur.



Chameleon: Decent. Enhances the Monk's scouting ability for sure but largely over shadowed by the winners except for RP heavy adventures.

I must respectfully disagree here. Alter Self is an extremely powerful spell, and the cheese you could pull off with it is amazing (you should be able to find out more on the CharOps board). I think it's a very powerful tattoo.



Crane: Looser. Immunity to poison comes to late to be much good with even with a weak fort save. Magic will make up for it.

Immunity to poison comes at level 8, 2 levels after you get access to lesser tattoos, earlier than a normal Monk's, at level 11. Immunity to aging comes before a Druid's, at level 12. Magic does not grant you Timeless Body. Could you point me to where I can find the item that provides immunity to poison? I'd like to use one in my next game :smallsmile:



Hummingbird: Looser. Flight does you little good as melee class. Anything you could get here you can pick up with alter self.


True that you can get Flight with Alter Self, but what if the character wants to fly by his own power, not by transforming into a creature that can do so? Also, you underestimate the value of flight for a melee class. One of the most severe weaknesses of the monk that has been pointed out is its inability to fly without magic items (which cost a lot), causing its mobility to be severely reduced.



Nightingale: Looser, unless it is improved invisibility.

I daresay invisibility is never useless. Walk Unseen, again, is one of the more powerful Warlock invocations out there.



Scorpion: Winner. Powerful debuff that can't be removed? Clever monks will find good ways to use this.

I fully agree. Warlocks also get this, so the power level should be about right.



Spider: Looser.

Aw, c'mon. No love for Con damage?



Wasp: Decent but overshadowed by other abilities.

Hmm...hmm.. you might be right. But if you lack a dedicated buffer or if you're playing a solo game, this could go a long way to save your skin.


Greater Tattoos



Metal: Looser. If you've got curse you really don't need this. You can make up your own curses after all to drop their armor class unless you GM hates you. This will only get better then curse at the highest levels.

Again, I beg to differ. It's a Line attack, which means you're reducing the AC of multiple foes (and you always reduce it, unless they have Evasion, which often means their AC is low anyways, since they should be Rogues/Monks or similar). Stacking this should prove very useful (you can reduce Armour bonus and then Natural Armour bonus, and even DR), and Reflex saves are the weakest saves at higher levels.


Moon: Meh.[quote]

You don't like +4 Str, +6 Con, +8 Natural Armour? Granted, they are enhancement bonuses, but... you're a strange customer, sir. I will wait to see if there are more opinions similar to yours before admitting defeat, though :smallsmile:

[QUOTE=EENick;6179171]
Mountain: Decent but not really worth it. People will just back off and attack you from range if you are playing in a world where people know the class and have half a brain.

The main thing that prevents them from doing so would be reach. You gain the reach of a Large or Huge creature, which means your threat range increases accordingly. Even if they take a 5-ft step backwards to avoid AoOs from you, you still get to hit them in the next round. This provides a way to possibly tank when combined with Moon and Bamboo.



Oak: Winner. Spell resistence better then the standard monks? Yes please.

I must point out that Spell Resistance is quite a weak ability in the first place. I've gone out of my way to try and change that, but a single Assay Resistance spell can really screw you over.



Ocean: Looser. These rarely are major factors in a game. You can already shapeshift into an animal to fly or breath water. Why would you need this?

It's another homage to the old PrC. I know not many people will take it, but see my argument for Bellflower.



Sun: Winner. Even Goku knew this was a winner and he was dumb as a box of rocks.

Love the DBZ reference. Yes, I agree this ability is powerful. Should it be toned down?



Tempest: Looser.

It's POUNCE! And an EXTRA ATTACK! Why? Please, oh please explain!
Ahem, sorry I was a bit too excited. I'm sure many people will disagree with you on this topic, as do I.

Master Tattoos



Lich: Looser. Not enough evil players. Just seems like this is there to screw over PCs fighting NPCs.

Hey, you gotta throw the other end of the alignment pool a bone sometimes. this acts as a counterpart to Unicorn mostly.



Phoenix: Winner and Looser. I can see the value here when you are planning on fighting Venca but seriously who plans on dying? Self Res is just not an ability you should probably give PCs for RP reasons.

I'm gonna leave it there because it's an ability that fits the creature it was based on. Like you said, it might be useful for someone out there, and as such I don't see a valid reason to label it as a loser. The person's playing style will dictate what tattoos he picks, and if he's not into spending gold and XP to get a chance at reincarnating, then I don't see why he can't pick something else.




Minor Buffs won't do you any good at the higher levels. Damage Reduction will.

But they work well at low to mid levels, which is where most games take place, and where the usefulness of Least Tattoos is supposed to taper off. There is a mechanic to switch out one tattoo for another every time you gain a new tattoo, so you could get DR at higher levels without first choosing it at lower levels as well.



I'm speaking more thematically then from a view point of balance. If I'm a tattoo monk I want to be using all sorts of tattoos. Just like if I'm a warblade I want to be using my stances and maneuvers right from the start. Consider either dropping some of your monk abilities or replacing them with Tattoos. Evasion for example could easily become a tattoo you could take for those who want it rather then a mandatory power. You already moved Diamond soul into this category.

Good point there. I'll see what can be done.

Spoilered due to length of response.

EENick
2009-05-30, 12:07 AM
I don't have time to reply to every point right now and likely will not for a few days so let me just respond generally.

I see you giving a lot of apples to oranges examples about why things should work for this class. The problem is of course that this is the Tattooed Monk and not those other classes. For example you could say of course that casting in armor works for clerics so it should be okay for my class and that might or might not be true but just because a power is balanced or works for one class doesn't mean they are good for all. As it see it many of these cookie cutter powers are not as equal as you would suggest when applied to the tattooed monk.

Secondly doesn't swapping a tattoo seems more then a little thematically strange? RP flavorwise it just doesn't work for me but I admite flavor looses out a lot to other concerns in D&D.

Cieyrin
2009-05-30, 09:22 AM
I also disagree and agree on certain points that EENick has brought up. The skill buffing least tattoos have their place and they generally work. For one, Falcon could easily save your ass from many an ambush, given the sheer number of stealth buffs compared to detection buffs. A way to improve my ability to not get murdered from the things in the shadows is kudos all the way. A similar thing for Monkey, as the ability to move in an unexpected manner could be the difference between you surviving an encounter and getting greased by the BBEG. Plus, it opens up options so that the other party members can focus on other things besides utilities if need be. Being able to spider climb means getting up and over walls lower level characters wouldn't even conceive of, plus the sheer utility of having a bonus to Tumble should not be set aside so easily. Finally, as for Serpent, yes, it's RP aimed but something has to be, right? Characters shouldn't be solely focused on combat, in any case, and Serpent gives you the tools you need to take advantage of those situations in which you can at least aid the Face of your group in whatever negotiation is going on. I think a better spell for Serpent to give would be Disguise Self, personally, but that's just me. Mirror Image, while nice, doesn't really stick with the rest of the Serpent core concept.

Bellflower is a carry over from the old PRC but it seems to have also changed from when I last saw it. Given Charisma isn't a strong stat for the TM, I'm not sure why it's been singled out to a different mechanic then the other stat buffing tattoos, which is admitted weaker in comparison. If it was Butterfly with that mechanic, I could see it working but it doesn't work for Bellflower. For Crane, Timeless Body, while a nice ability, isn't likely to come up ever, as it's mostly an RP ability. Poison immunity is nothing to sneeze at, either, as that saves you on so much ability damage, it's not funny. Sure, you could say its more situational and it will have varying amounts of utility, depending on the campaign, it's not something I'd necessarily just write off. As for Hummingbird, getting a flight speed is NOT underpowered. For one, it opens up charge opportunities, as you're not restricted by difficult terrain and, given the TM's land speed, anyways, you're flying at a fairly decent rate. Also, nothing disables a melee character more than not being able to reach your enemy, something that flight alleviates, whether your foe is also flying or just out of normal reach (on a balcony without any discernible stairs about, for example). Nightingale's Invisibility is nothing to sneeze at either. Invisibility makes for a great scouting buff, plus, if used right, can be an encounter breaker. What good is your wizard artillery if he's already in check by a TM whose summarily beating him down? Those minions of his probably can't see invisible critters, either, so great meat shields they made.

As for Spider, I do actually have to agree that it is a bit underpowered, as it was in CW. Con damage, while nice, isn't all that affluent for what this does. I'd rather stun an enemy and make him drop his weapon and lose his next action then make him lose his hit dice in HP, which probably isn't that much. Plus, the people I would want to use it on probably have a good Fort save, anyways, so, combining a kinda lackluster effect with an okay save doesn't really make my cup of tea.

For Metal, it is nothing to sneeze about. The ability to reduce DR alone is devastating, let alone on AC bonuses or against multiple enemies. This is the way to take care of those pesky Earth Elementals and their DR/- and other annoying critters with DRs you don't have the proper way to pierce on hand (I mean, who commonly runs around with blessed bolts to take down rakshasa, really?!? I know my paladin probably doesn't, his maul of mighty smitage is what carries him through the day). The same for Moon, as multiple buffs with one effect is always welcome, given a multi-round power up dance in combat probably isn't the most apt way to survive encounters. I do notice it got pulled back to Wereboar, from where it was Weretiger before, which perhaps was necessary. For Mountain, you gotta have the sense of timing on when to use it, like with the Dwarven Defender's Defensive stance that Mountain draws from. No, you wouldn't use it in a combat that's running across the country side but, once you have your quarry cornered or combat descends into who can take blows longer, those defensive bonuses and the bonus of being unmovable are well worth it, plus that reach gives you some great battlefield control. As for Ocean, it's definitely an RP style tattoo but it has it's place, especially in campaigns where you have to worry about character upkeep. Not having to sleep means your party never has to worry about having an able sentry on duty, since you are always alert and never weary from a long day of adventure, plus not needing to breathe means never drowning but also immunity to stench and many gaseous attacks (though not all, as some will affect you regardless if you breathe them or not).

For the last greater tattoo of note, what the hell are you smoking that you think Tempest is not great?!? Pounce is one of the most powerful abilities in the game, plus the Flurry for an extra attack at no penalty is freakin' sweet. Pounce breaks encounters and shouldn't be discounted by nobody and no one.

As for the Master tattoos, the complaint against Lich is nonexistent, as not everybody is gonna be a good character and not every campaign is gonna be do-gooders. Plus, the lack of an alignment restriction means you can find these as antagonists just as easily as protagonists. Lich dovetails well with the devilish and demonic bloodline tattoos, as well, so I see no reason why it's not great. I've previously stated what I thought of Phoenix, so I'm not gonna reiterate it again.

Other than that, I may decide to make some tattoos, if I have the time and inspiration to do it. We'll see, I guess.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Eleven
2009-05-31, 07:37 PM
A beautiful class. I really like this.

Are you putting together an Epic Tattooed Monk Progression?

I would suggest replacing Deceive Item and Imbue Item with more classic monk abilities, such as:


Ki Strike (Su): Starting at 5th level, the monk's enhanced strikes are treated as if they were magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. If the monk performs a special ritual, they also gain an effective enhancement bonus up to half of his monk class level. This effective enhancement bonus functions exactly like the enhancement bonus of a magical weapon in all respects. A 4th level monk who performs this ritual can treat his fists as +2 weapons, or as +1 weapons with a special ability. Upon gaining this ability, and every other level thereafter, the monk can perform a ritual which involves meditating for 1 hour and the burning of special incense, which costs an increasing amount of money as indicated on the following table, to increase the effctive overall enhancement bonus of his fists. A monk can meditate for 1 hour to change the way this effective bonus is distributed, but he must possess special incense appropriate for how much of the bonus he is altering.

Effective Bonus Incense Cost
+1 2,000 gp
+2 6,000 gp
+3 10,000 gp
+4 14,000 gp
+5 18,000 gp
+6 22,000 gp
+7 26,000 gp
+8 30,000 gp
+9 34,000 gp
+10 38,000 gp

Example: Kenji is a 3rd level monk. On gaining his 4th level, he can purchase 4,000 gp worth of special incense (1,000 gp for the +1 and 3,000 gp for the increase to +2) and meditate for an hour, after which his fists become +1 shocking weapons. Later on during his 5th level, Kenji wants to change his fists to be +1 frost weapons instead. He is altering the equivalent of a +1 ability, so he has to buy 1,000 gp worth of incense and meditate for an hour. This incense is a specially prepared variety, and each batch weighs 1lb., no matter how much it costs.

Starting at 13th level, the monk's enhanced strikes are treated as lawful-aligned weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Lawful good monks' enhanced strikes are additionally treated as good-aligned, and lawful evil monks' enhanced strikes are treated as evil-aligned.

Starting at 18th level, the monk's enhanced strikes are treated as if made out a special material (defaulting to adamantine) for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. A monk can meditate for 1 hour to change which special material his enhanced strikes are treated as.

This would clear up the dead level at Level 18. I hate dead levels. However, this may be overpowered...

The tattoos themselves are formidable. However, some new ones could be:


Least:
Tiger- those who witness the monk activate the tattoo become frightened.
Mongoose- micro barbarian rage.
Squid- advantages to grappling?
Bat- Classic monks ability to fall painlessly.
Wolf- scent ability
Cat- pounce
Ram- charge over obstacles
Turtle- lethal damage (up to str bonus) done to monk is nonlethal instead.
Fish- wisdom bonus to initiative.

Lesser:
Cricket- music stuff (a la bardic music)
Fly- can hear in areas of silence, although with a -10 penalty. Can also see all invisible creatures and objects as blurred.
Maple- Cannot be flanked
Stick Beetle- Hind in Plain Sight.
Poison Dart Frog- can move on walls or other vertical surfaces, as long as she begins and ends her move action on horizontal surface that she could normally stand on.

Greater:
Rain- can heal her own wounds as a swift action. She can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current monk level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses.
Ice- freeze an enemy....
Spirit- assume ethereal form.
Stone- 150% of strength bonus to unarmed attack rolls.
Tongue- can speak with all intelligent creatures that have language
Zephyr- can become invisible.

Master:
Dragon- breath weapon, wings, frightening demeanour
Nightmare- haste, planeshift, fire
Vampire- energy drain,
Genie- wishes!
Kraken- tentacles and constriction.
Minotaur- maze,
purple worm- blindsight, tremorsense

Alright. If you can make something magical out of that, fantastic. That's pretty much the limit of my imagination for this evening.

Pramxnim
2009-05-31, 08:36 PM
Hmm, I really hadn't thought about an epic progression before (never played epic, don't know if I'm qualified to make such a progression), but maybe I'll give it more thought sometime and pull something out. Thank you for the compliments :smallsmile:

Awesome ideas, I could definitely roll with most of it. Lemme just quickly go through it...

Least tattoos:

Tiger: Fear would work more on Charisma, which this class is not entirely fond of (and making it based on wisdom makes no sense). Good idea, but not for this class.
Mongoose: I fear of stepping on other classes' toes too much, but Barb rage is nice to have.
Squid: I definitely considered this. It shall be added.
Bat: Slow Fall is really bad, but Feather Fall sounds good (or something similar). I'll make it Cat to better fit the flavour though.
Wolf: I dunno, Scent seems kinda meh. Maybe if I upgrade it to Blindsense at higher levels, it could work? Iffy on this.
Cat: Pounce is too strong for a 1st level char (even on a class with 3/4 BAB), I can't implement this, sorry.
Ram: Good idea.
Turtle: At first I was thinking of Natural Armour for Turtle, but then the numbers just don't fit. I like this idea from Ultimate Monk and I think I'll implement it.
Fish: Fish is just... :smallbiggrin:, but Wis to init is quite good. Allows the monk to ditch Dex and be SAD


Lesser tattoos

Cricket: A bit iffy on Bardic music... but a sonic based ability is a good start
Fly: This is already in Falcon, so there's no need for it here.
Maple: The flavour is a bit... weird? But uncanny dodge is a good ability
Stick Beetle: HiPS at this level is too soon. No can do, sorry
Poison Dart Frog: Monkey already covers this with Spider Climb, this would be redundant


Greater tattoos

Rain: Too weak for a Greater tattoo. I like the healing flavour though.
Ice: Oh yeah, I missed this one as one of the elements (I was going with Metal-Wood-Water-Fire-Earth)
Spirit: Sounds cool
Stone: Hmm, the bonus seems minor for the level. Maybe I'll work in another something in addition to it.
Tongue: Another flavour based ability. I think I'll weave in a defensive side to this tattoo to make it more viable
Zephyr: This has been covered. Monks don't really need Greater Invisibility anyways


Master tattoos

Dragon: I can't include Dragon because it's already in the Alternative class features section, with pretty much everything mentioned here
Vampire: I knew I was forgetting a popular monster of legend!
Genie: NOoooooooo, not wishes! :smallyuk:
Kraken: Already have a Leviathan for sea-faring adventures. A Kraken, while building on grappling, would be a bit redundant. Also, tentacles... *shudders*
Minotaur: This falls under Behemoth IMO
Purple Worm: Sounds good.


I'm a bit preoccupied with a pbp game right now, but I'll get back to this class soon enough. Stay tuned!

Pramxnim
2009-06-01, 08:59 AM
Guess what? New tattoos! Here comes a truckload of new stuff, with much thanks to razor1n who came up with a goo deal of them (I've altered them a bit but credit goes out to him for their creation and to Eleven for his ideas). I'll only introduce new Least tattoos right now, but there's more in the wings...

razor1n's Least tattoos

Bull: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on Bullrush and Overrun checks for 10 minutes per caster level (maximum +8). In addition, he gains a trample attack that deals 1d8 damage (for a medium creature) for the duration of this ability.

Cat: A character with this tattoo may add his Wisdom modifier to his initiative (in addition to Dexterity), up to a maximum of the amount of tattoos he currently possesses. In addition, he reduces fall damage by an effective 10ft for each tattoo he posses. At level 20 the TM may fall any distance with no damage.

Dog: A character with this tattoo gains the scent ability to range equal to the five times the number of tattoos he possesses in feet as well as the track feat. If he possesses 8 or more tattoos he may activate it to gain blindsense out to 1/2 his scent range for 10 minutes per caster level. If he possesses 16 tattoos, he instead gains blindsight upon activation.

Gorilla: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Grapple checks for 10 minutes per caster level (maximum +8). He gains an additional +4 bonus to grapple checks or gain a constrict attack that does 1d10 damage (for a medium creature), chosen upon activation. The constrict attack deals damage on a successful grapple check in addition to the TM's unarmed attack damage. Add 1/2 the character's strength modifier to the attack.

Ram: A character with this tattoo gains the ability to charge over difficult terrain at no penalty. In addition, he may activate it as part of the charge to deal an additional amount of damage equal to his Wisdom modifier on the first attack of the charge.
If he possesses 8 or more tattoos he may make one 90-degree turn during his charge.

Tiger: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Intimidation checks for 10 minutes per caster level (maximum +8). In addition, he gains two rake attacks that deal 1d4 damage for a medium creature for the duration of this ability. He may not use these natural attacks as part of a full attack action (except for a pounce), but instead he may make 2 rake attacks on a charge or a successful grapple. Add 1/2 the characterís strength modifier to each rake attack.


Other new Least tattoos

Mongoose: A character with this tattoo may activate it to enter a state of fury. In this state he gains a +1 morale bonus for every tattoo he possesses (to a maximum of +8) to all damage rolls with manufactured and natural weapons. The state lasts for 3 rounds, plus an additional round for every point of Wisdom bonus (minimum 3 rounds). This ability does not count as the barbarianís Rage for the purposes of qualifying for feats or prestige classes.

Parrot: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain the ability to cast Detect Magic at will for 10 minutes per caster level. For the duration of this ability, he may take 10 on all Use Magic Device checks. As a full-round action, he may end the effects of this ability to determine all properties of a single touched item (as the identify spell, but with no components required).

Skunk: A character with this tattoo may activate it to create a misty cloud of fog that spreads in a10-foot radius from himself. The fog does not block line of sight, but all creatures in the fog have concealment. Any creature (other than the TM) that enters the fog must make a Fortitude save or become nauseated. This effect lasts as long as the creature remains within the cloud and for 1 round thereafter. A moderate wind, or any fire larger than a torch, immediately disperses the fog. The fog otherwise lasts for 1 minute.

Squid: A character with this tattoo may activate it to cast darkness as the spell. The spellís level is counted as equal to 1/2 the TMís number tattoos possessed for the purposes of dispelling or countering light spells.

Turtle: A character with this tattoo gains a good Fortitude save progression in his tattooed monk class (This change is retroactive. A 5th lvl TM who gains this tattoo has a base Fort save of +4 instead of +1). In addition, he may activate it as an immediate action to gain a +2 bonus on a single Fortitude save.

Wolf: A character with this tattoo may activate it to gain a +1 competence bonus for every tattoo he possesses on all Trip and Disarm checks (maximum +8). In addition, he gains a bite attack that does 1d6 damage (for a medium creature) for the duration of the ability. If the bite attack hits, he may make a trip attempt as a free action.


Accompanying this update is a new class feature to replace Deceive Item and Imbue Item, relics of the Warlock class that really should belong there instead of with the TM.

Cieyrin
2009-06-01, 01:41 PM
So Tattooed Monks now moonlight as Kensai? Niftyish, I guess, though I have a couple of issues of how it works mechanically, as they are currently written, a 13th level TM could epicly enchant their unarmed strikes to +6 and pierce DR/epic @_@ Putting in a clause saying the enhancement is an 'effective' enhancement bonus and limiting the actual enhancement bonus to the 1/4 TM level would probably work best. With the previously described TM, that would mean mean a pool of 11 enhancement bonuses, with an effective bonus limit per weapon of +6 and an actual enhancement bonus limit of +3. Also, your example of Improved Ki Strike in action is wrong, as you describe him moving his bonuses around as a full round action when the previous description says he needs 10 minutes of meditation to do that.

As for the new Least Tattoos, I'm not sure they completely stack up with previous ones. For one, Cat and Ram are kinda weak. For Ram, I'd maybe give a damage bonus (Wisdom mod, for example) on charges and increased charge distance. For Cat, giving them the Frog tat's Slow Fall and negating fast sneaking penalties would work, i think. Speaking of Frog, why a super jump tat? Monkey has it covered for the most part and i'd rather get multiple bonuses rather than just one, y'know?

Onto Dog's scent issues. The 8 tattoo ability doesn't actually gain them anything, since anybody can know direction of a scent w/ the Scent ability, whether they're familiar or not, though as a move action. If you want something that'll work for that, being able to pinpoint familiar scents within range would do it, though maybe half scent range would be better. Being able to do that as a swift action is also a nice idea or at least as part of activating the tattoo, since you spend a move action doing it anyways. For the Blindsight, maybe linking it up to tattoo amounts would be good as well, say half or a quarter your normal scent range, so 40' or 20'. Given you can't achieve it till 20th, though, maybe 30' is fine. Nevermind on that point. ^^;;

Mongoose feels like the bastard child of Barbarian Rage and the alternate Half-Orc Paladin class feature, Righteous Fury, without the strengths of either =/. IDK, it doesn't feel right for the TM to get a rage style ability with everything else they can potentially do. At least as a Least Tattoo, it doesn't feel right, in any case. I'd rather see a write-up as a Lesser Tattoo, really, with a power level on par there.

Parrot looks pretty good, though it should probably say they can Use Magic Device as if they had ranks, as little good will come of being able to take 10 w/o that.

Turtle is kinda written odd. By taking it, does his Fort Save up to that point retroactively become good or is it only save bonuses from then on, which kinda leaves an odd progression otherwise. Instead of the Immediate Fort Save bonus, I'd almost want to see gaining Mettle at like 6 tattoos.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Pramxnim
2009-06-02, 01:20 AM
Och, you are right about Improved Ki Strike being abusive. And the example. Fixed.

Cat and Ram have been buffed. Frog is removed. Dog is changed a bit to gain blindsense, leading up to blindsight.

Mongoose has been changed a bit. It is actually quite powerful now, as the bonus applies to both manufactured and natural weapons and comes sooner. Tell me if this is too much.

Parrot is left unchanged since UMD is a class skill. Anyone who takes Parrot will have ranks in there for sure. I've fixed the wording on turtle a bit, but I feel that mettle is too powerful an ability to be given out like that.

More tats are in the making. Look out for lesser ones next time. Cheers

EENick
2009-06-02, 01:49 PM
Hmm, I feel that you make some valid points, and yet others I feel are not valid enough. Here's what I think based on your observations (and from my experience frequenting the char ops a lot)

Well I'll explain my thinking here and then move on. I think you mostly have your mind made up about your class and it seems to be picking up steam. I think after this you pretty much have the content of my feedback and my thoughts behind it and you are free to use or ignore it based on what you think will be fun for your games. I don't want to be one of those people who tries to talk others out of having fun just because they said they were open to feedback.




Also, a Warlock gets even less invocations than a TM and he functions just fine (a few people think that's underpowered, but I don't wanna make the TM overpowered compared to it or they will complain). I might have to increase the number of uses per day for the tattoos to make them more reliable though.

Well I'm not a fan of the Warlock class, it is one of my least favorite in fact, so Warlock based arguments don't hold as much weight with me as it might for some others. Just my personal bias.

Anyway as I recall Warlock's get to use their abilities all at will and that is a HUGE difference between any times per day power. Plus they start off with Eldritch Blast too. That is two powers at will which might even compliment each other vs one power you'll only be able to use a single time per day.



Least Tattoos




This is Lay on Hands, and it functions the same way. How is it any better than Lay on Hands (which is not, I'm afraid, very useful at higher levels, where action economy is needed)?

It isn't, but lay on hands is likely going to do a lot more for this class then it does for the paladines. Plus unlike Lay on Hands the monk will be able to do this many times per day. Don't forget while this might be game changing in combat if you end up in a long series of encounters (as good GM's should throw at their players now and then) this sort of healing will still be very useful particularly 8 instances of it.


There are so many ways to replicate this with magic, I hardly think it's that useful. It's more a homage to the old PrC than anything else. Useful, yes, but I wouldn't take it over any other tattoo at every given chance.

Nor would I...unless I was playing in Ravenloft of a similar horror setting and then this would be my bread and butter.


Please see my argument concerning DR.

I disagree with those arguements. DR is always useful. Just look at OOTS in War. If just one or two of those people defending the breach after V left had had DR while fighting the hobgoblin army they could have held it since. In any situation where your foes are spamming out many attacks IE: Lots of weaker foes, several of the ToB fighting styles focus on dealing multiple attacks etc. etc. DR rules the day. Sure it won't stop much when someone hits you for 100 damage, but not all foes do that. Immunity to fire won't help you against all attacks either but that doesn't mean it isn't a great power.


I disagree. Bonuses to Listen and Spot are always nice. You can get up to +8 to 3 skills (more than a Warlock's Beguiling Influence, that's for sure), either +12 to 1 or get See Invisibility. That's hardly useless. Perhaps I'll make the duration in minutes per level (or even 10 minutes per level) to make the bonuses more noticeable.

Minutes per level would make this much more useful IMO.


I don't see many people sinking their money into magic items for skill bonuses (except for those who really focus on one skill or another), and a climb speed is useful at lower levels.

Well maybe we just play in different groups because we see a lot of things in our adventures that give bonuses to jump and balance etc. For those classes that want these things it doesn't seem like there is any shortage of help there. I just can't see ever wanting to jump so badly I take this power.


Point taken. But it fuels Knowledge Devotion, remember.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Where is Knowledge Devotion? This just doesn't seem like an ability that fits with getting a magic tattoo unless they are writing the encyclopedia britannica on your back.


I think you mean Minor Image. This is more for RP purposes than anything else. Agreed that the power level is not high, but look at the Warlock's Beguiling Influence. It grants a +6 bonus to 3 skills, and it is highly regarded as one of the more useful invocations. The Serpent tattoo provides a bit more of a bump to three skills, and/or a minor magical ability that you can exhibit during the duration. Only the duration is the problem, and perhaps I will boost that. (and make Minor Image into Mirror Image, but then I like to see players get crafty with low level spells).

I really don't know to many people would say it is one of the more useful but then again I don't play with many Warlocks. That says the Warlock's ability basically asays +6 forever that is a huge difference.

RP wise I just don't see even a magic Tattoo filling this nitch. Maybe I'm just missing the concept but I don't see monks training for years and allowing themselves to be magically branded just so they can lie to people with magic. Would a Warlock use magic to twist people's preceptions? Heck yea! A monk? I'm not so sure. Not to say monks won't lie or anything but I just think if that is what they wanted to go get good at they would have become a pro-gambler or something rather then kick butt master of martial arts.


Lesser Tattoos




Dunno where you're getting the healing, but yes, more Con is nice.

Healing after the fact isn't hard to find for most parties and in the later levels this will last longer then many fights.


Again, an old relic from the past. I don't like it either, but hey, you gotta have the less useful ones to contrast the cream of the crop.

Why? Seriously why? This isn't MTG where they've got to fill each pack with 14 worthless cards so they can change you 4.50 for the rare. All abilities of a given level should be roughly equal. There isn't much point in having dud abilities.


I must respectfully disagree here. Alter Self is an extremely powerful spell, and the cheese you could pull off with it is amazing (you should be able to find out more on the CharOps board). I think it's a very powerful tattoo.

Well I don't frequent th CharOps board so maybe you know something I don't.


Immunity to poison comes at level 8, 2 levels after you get access to lesser tattoos, earlier than a normal Monk's, at level 11. Immunity to aging comes before a Druid's, at level 12. Magic does not grant you Timeless Body. Could you point me to where I can find the item that provides immunity to poison? I'd like to use one in my next game :smallsmile:

You've never heard of the Periapt of Proof against Poison? It is a fairly standard item.


True that you can get Flight with Alter Self, but what if the character wants to fly by his own power, not by transforming into a creature that can do so? Also, you underestimate the value of flight for a melee class. One of the most severe weaknesses of the monk that has been pointed out is its inability to fly without magic items (which cost a lot), causing its mobility to be severely reduced.

You know most classes need magic items to fly in their normal form and when you are using your whole body to attack it makes attacking while flying would be an expersize in awkwardness. Flying while using, oh say a spear, is possible but for all intents and purposes if you actually mean to fight while flying you probably shouldn't try it unarmed. I'd put forward it would be even more difficult then trying to fight underwater unarmed.


I daresay invisibility is never useless. Walk Unseen, again, is one of the more powerful Warlock invocations out there.

The ability to use things at will is totally different. Walk Unseen basically means you NEVER have to be visible except after an attack. It is at will and lasts 24 hours. That is so totally different from Nightingale. Sure at level 18 or so you can come close with your uses per day and its excessive durration to that but even then it isn't the same.

I'll grant you it can be useful for scouting but I've never had that much trouble finding potions or rings of invisibility that I felt the need to use a class ability on it.


I fully agree. Warlocks also get this, so the power level should be about right.

Warlock's are a totally different class. What works for them isn't inherently balanced for another class with more HP better saves and a different set of class skills.


Greater Tattoos



Again, I beg to differ. It's a Line attack, which means you're reducing the AC of multiple foes (and you always reduce it, unless they have Evasion, which often means their AC is low anyways, since they should be Rogues/Monks or similar). Stacking this should prove very useful (you can reduce Armour bonus and then Natural Armour bonus, and even DR), and Reflex saves are the weakest saves at higher levels.

The odds of higher level foes stacking up in a line for this are fairly small given how wary one needs to be of AoE in D&D. It would be much, much better to buff yourself then lower your foes AC. It would stack better with your abilities and be much more reliable then hoping for foes to line up for multiple sprays of this while failing their saves.



You don't like +4 Str, +6 Con, +8 Natural Armour? Granted, they are enhancement bonuses, but... you're a strange customer, sir. I will wait to see if there are more opinions similar to yours before admitting defeat, though :smallsmile:

I just think there are better spells to choose for the monk. Otherwise you are more or less just giving them calm rage and stepping on what barbarian's do.


The main thing that prevents them from doing so would be reach. You gain the reach of a Large or Huge creature, which means your threat range increases accordingly. Even if they take a 5-ft step backwards to avoid AoOs from you, you still get to hit them in the next round. This provides a way to possibly tank when combined with Moon and Bamboo.

Reach is good and all but given that you are stuck in place you still end up with the same problem next round. It just seems too situational to me.


I must point out that Spell Resistance is quite a weak ability in the first place. I've gone out of my way to try and change that, but a single Assay Resistance spell can really screw you over.

It was supposed to be weak given the amazing saves Monk's have. If you want to improve it I'd expand it to Psi & Manuvers.


Love the DBZ reference. Yes, I agree this ability is powerful. Should it be toned down?

I'm not sure off hand but possibly.


It's POUNCE! And an EXTRA ATTACK! Why? Please, oh please explain!
Ahem, sorry I was a bit too excited. I'm sure many people will disagree with you on this topic, as do I.

It is an extra attack at +6 the way you have it worded and it still leaves you open to attacks of opportunity. I just don't see caster/fighter hybrid classes really needed pounce enough to take it over other options.

Master Tattoos



I'm gonna leave it there because it's an ability that fits the creature it was based on. Like you said, it might be useful for someone out there, and as such I don't see a valid reason to label it as a loser. The person's playing style will dictate what tattoos he picks, and if he's not into spending gold and XP to get a chance at reincarnating, then I don't see why he can't pick something else.

I just don't think it is good idea RP wise to give character's self res abilities. Death is already cheap enough as it is in D&D.


But they work well at low to mid levels, which is where most games take place, and where the usefulness of Least Tattoos is supposed to taper off. There is a mechanic to switch out one tattoo for another every time you gain a new tattoo, so you could get DR at higher levels without first choosing it at lower levels as well.

Swapping out tattoos just doesn't work for me RP wise. Tattoos are supposed to be pretty final in my mind. I know just about every class does it now but still, changing a tattoo at a level up? That just doesn't seem right to me.

Well there you have it. I'm pretty sure I'm not reall 100% on the vibe you wanted for the Tattooed monks but I hope that is useful in some way and not just junking up your thread.

Averagedog
2009-09-22, 01:03 AM
is it actually possible to have 16 tatoos for the Crab tatoo dr/- ability?

Pramxnim
2009-09-22, 03:46 AM
Why yes, as the level 10 ability Tattoo Fusion allows the class to count as having 2 extra tattoos for the purpose of stuff related to the number of tattoos you possess.

Also... I spot thread necromancy!! :smalltongue:

Just kidding ^^

EDIT: Why, I do believe the monk threads are springing up again! People sure do love kung fu fighting, do they not? :smallbiggrin:

Cieyrin
2009-09-22, 10:50 AM
I blame the Test of Spite and the Monkening.:smalltongue:

Averagedog
2009-09-22, 01:34 PM
I am actually very interested in using this monk, even though I have not yet recieved permission from my DM as of yet. But as far as it goes, should I consider the newer least and lesser tattoos into the original Pool? Are you going to continue adding things/balancing this class?

deuxhero
2009-09-22, 05:16 PM
Personally I wouldn't have listed everything but charisma as an important atribute.

Pramxnim
2009-09-22, 06:22 PM
I am actually very interested in using this monk, even though I have not yet recieved permission from my DM as of yet. But as far as it goes, should I consider the newer least and lesser tattoos into the original Pool? Are you going to continue adding things/balancing this class?

Yes, please consider the new tattoos into the original Pool, that's why I posted them after all.

I'm not sure if I will add things to the class still, but I will address any glaring balance issues that people spot in the future. I've almost fully converted to, 4e by now ^^

Charisma does influence some of the tattoos. The class can benefit from all attributes, but you can always be useful by pumping Wisdom and one other stat (depending on your play style).

Averagedog
2009-09-22, 08:06 PM
Alright. Then while I still have your attention, have you created feats that specificaly benefit the tattooed monk? Have you considered the pros and cons of adding a feat that gives an additional tattoo?

Kesnit
2009-09-22, 08:29 PM
Have you considered the pros and cons of adding a feat that gives an additional tattoo?

I would veto this one since the strength of many tattoos is based on the number of tattoos the TM has.

Pramxnim
2009-09-23, 03:38 AM
Agreed with Kesnit, a feat that increases the number of tattoos would be highly overpowered.

No, I have not designed feats that would work specifically with the TM, even though it sounds like a tempting idea. I do not have the time nor the inspiration to do it right now, and I don't think it to be necessary. I designed the TM with the thought that it should function well within the rules of 3.5 without the integration of new, specialized feats for it. After all, this is not 4th ed, where each class can benefit from feats designed for it alone that makes every member of the class different from the rest. For the TM, that would be the tattoo selection, and I think that's enough in and of itself.

Cheers, and do let me know if you manage to smuggle this class into a campaign. I would like to hear what people say about its balance in actual play.

Averagedog
2009-09-23, 06:22 PM
Yep, I will most likely be using this class sometime down the road focusing mainly on a grappler/stunning fist build(ability focus, pain touch, pharaoh's fist)

D-naras
2009-10-09, 01:51 PM
Well, I am trying to make a TM right now to replace my dead psychic warrior, and i am having real trouble with its MAD. I can't seem to find a reliable way to distribute his stats with 28 point buy to fil the role of secondary tank. I need all physical stats, or at least 10 STR to avoid penalties if i take weapon finesse and still need a high DEX, CON and Wis. :smalleek: Actually, what role, do you see TM filling in a party?

Edit: Also, it still loses out on armor enhancements, as far as i can see. Perhaps it should gain some armor enhancement bonuses with its ki power also?

Pramxnim
2009-10-09, 02:28 PM
Yeah, I noticed that at low levels the TM is really unimpressive, and does not function well at all (since he can only activate his tattoos so infrequently). The MADness is unfortunately still there, but I was hoping to make the class more WIS-dependent than anything else. In retrospect, I don't suppose I managed this feat at all (sigh)

What level are you starting at anyways? And what's your party composition? At higher levels, the TM gets a lot more options to play around with, but if you focus on Dex and Wis early on, you'll have decent enough armour to sort of tank.

The Crab tattoo can really help with tanking in early levels, since it gives DR. Mongoose and Lion might help for a short time with damage, and Tiger tattoo adds a potential 2d4 to your damage on a charge or grapple.

I'm honestly considering remodeling the class to give it a bit more of a 4e/Iron Heroes feel, with mechanics that can be employed per encounter rather than per day (I always feel that to be one of 3.5's weaknesses), so that players can use their nifty class features in each and every fight. That is, if I have the time for it. I made this class in summer, but now university is pounding on my door everyday (just finished a three-midterm week, whee), so I make no promises.

D-naras
2009-10-09, 02:34 PM
I start on 4th level, and i will take Human as a race and Jotunbrud, Pain Touch on 3rd and still missing one usefull feat on first. I am really thinking taking dodge here! My stats are STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 16 CHA 8. The system is 28 point buy with an extra +2 thrown in for free. Still, I only get 15 AC and 29 HP on average, which isn't all that great.

D-naras
2009-10-12, 05:30 AM
Also you dont have any tiger or mongoose tattoos in any list. :smallconfused:

Averagedog
2009-10-12, 06:31 AM
those tattoos are further down in another post made by pramxnim in spoilers.

pramxnim: if you do decide to remodel this class, please don't delete what you already have here. I created my own TM at 5th level using the alternate class feature dragon heritage. so far its going very well. your natural armor change to that draconic feat really helps. It keeps my AC on par with the rest of the non casting party.

morelia1
2010-04-06, 09:19 AM
For my next character I was also planning on using TM. I think this is a seriously cool idea :smallbiggrin: (and the PrC does fall flat) Are there more tattoos? -I know there were plans for some.

danzibr
2010-04-06, 09:29 AM
This class looks cool! Actually I was thinking about playing a Tattooed Monk. I have a problem though...

So Goliath is my favorite race, but in the fluff it says they think their skin pattern somewhat predicts their future and thus reveal as much skin as possible and would never tattoo themselves. How would I go about being a Goliath Tattooed Monk?

Pramxnim
2010-04-06, 02:26 PM
Unfortunately, the plans fell short, and I've all but abandoned this class. I've moved on to 4e recently, and I just can't find the motivation to work on this class anymore. There won't be new updates, but you're free to make up your own tattoos and expand on the premise of the class. That's the spirit of homebrew, no?

Have fun!

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-06, 03:18 PM
I think I just found the other side for my gestalt character. Thanks to Pramxnim for making it and morelia1 for bringing it to my attention :smallwink: