Need Help With Necromancer NPC Class

[ondonaflash]

Okay, so in my D&D world Necromancers and Magi serve a separate purpose, they draw their powers from separate sources and I sort of feel they should do different things, with the Necromancers being something a bit more than Evil Magi. So I'd like to Homebrew a class specific to the Necromancer Cult that is the end result of swearing service to a Devil Queen, and sacrificing the life of an innocent.

If there is a ready made class that you think might work, that is also acceptable. (I considered using Warlock, I just don't have the proper book and have my doubts about their threat level).

Note: These necromancers are absolutely evil, just by nature of the things they have to do to gain power, so keep that in mind.

[Maerok]

Well what's the difference between Magi and Necromancers? What you have going for Necromancers seems more like demonic cultists at the moment.

Have you taken a look at the Necrocarnate from Magic of Incarnum? You're Necromancers could work like that. They could bind the souls of the fallen to fuel their magic, or even buy someone's soul from them. Perhaps they are walking nexuses of their demon queen's plane, and every soul they touch creates a bigger and bigger planar web that weakens the boundaries between the Material World and the Demon Planes.

[ondonaflash]

let me expound a little more since I didn't even state the system I was using.
3.5 edition D&D

The necromancers are an off-shoot cult from a Magic based society. During the final years of a brutal Magic War they found a ruby that granted them mighty (and corrupt) arcane powers which they used to turn the tide in the war and conquer the planet. The Ruby contained the soul of the Devil Queen Delepitore who granted power to her worshipers, but also corrupting them to evil in the process, and usurping the power of the True Gods of Magic. It was one of the more magnificent Devil's Gambits and resulted in her rapidly gaining power. If she weren't trapped in a gemstone she'd be leading an army in Baator.

The worshipers of the ruby forfeit their souls (via the act of worship) in the hopes of gaining power and the chance of eternal life through undeath. The powers they get from Delepitore should be clearly evil and corrupt.

[Juggernaut1981]

Libris Mortis: True Necromancer
Requires Arcane and Divine necromancy spells, gives you all sorts of undead goodies and you can easily toss in a thematic requirement that you have to "sell your soul to the all powerful ruby" before you can join.

That would be a good basis for building a Necromancer class that has a deal-with-the-devil style flavour.

I'd be assuming that these guys would have as special abilities things that do the following:

- easy summoning undead
- able to consume soul energy to heal/power spells/etc
- undead are more powerful when near the necromancer
- necromancer finds it easy to control/manipulate undead

Lots of those sorts of things are included in the True Necro... check it out if you can.

[Maerok]

There's:

Dread Necromancer
Wizard (necromancer)
Cleric (Death, Undeath, Deathbound, Evil Domains)
Shadowcaster?

Master of Shrouds (Cleric with a penchant for incorporeal undead)
True Necromancer (why would you do that to yourself!?!)
Pale Master (Tries to make necromancers more combat worthy; never shake his hand)
Horned Harbinger (Commander of the undead; can greatly exceed the Dread Necro's animating abilities)
Yathrinshee (sp?, female Drow necromancer)
Wearer of Purple (Dracolich necromancer)
Walker in the Waste (Desert necromancer)
Shadow Adept (Maybe not a 'necro', but the Shadow Weave abilities really make it beastly)

Among many others... (I have some homebrew spells and classes in my sig you could take a look at)

---

But I think ondonaflash is looking for something more custom-tailored to the setting.

How do Necromancers acquire power from their patron? Any rituals involved?
What is the most feared ability?/Which abilities do they use most often?
How are they in combat? What's their primary and secondary role, if any?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of their connection to the demon queen?

[ondonaflash]

Good feedback to work out. Lets see...

I haven't completely decided how I want the necromancer's gain power, ritualistically I'm sure, but there's an aspect of losing a bit of your humanity in the process, turning the Necromancer evil. Maybe some sort of familiar, where you slay an innocent and resurrect them in the form of some type of undead which permanently supports the character.

The most feared ability... Lichdom, they can become Liches. Maybe a spell that drains the body of its soul, leaving an animate husk that obeys the caster, and increasing the caster's power. The most used spells? probably something like "Bone Armor" (equivalent to mage armor), and bone blade, which I think has some corollary already, allowing him to summon a melee weapon to fight with.

I want the Necromancer to play as a "support fighter/summoner" roll, where they can survive direct combat and keep monsters in the fray, constantly backing up the primary tank.

In terms of consequences? The idea was they'd be more of a villain class, something I could throw onto an NPC to buff him up for a climactic battle. Lets see... They get access to the Death and Necromancy branches of magic, which in my world are forbidden. (In the place of Death I've used Repose). They get strange mystical powers, increased combat skills and a shot at immortality through undeath. In consequence they can't multiclass into any other caster class. They are hateful in the eyes of the gods, and an abscess in the flow of magic, and at the moment I don't really have a PrC customized for them.

[Juggernaut1981]

Okay, so basically you are looking to create is a "I walk into combat wearing the skeletons of my past enemies and summon an army of zombies who go forth and smash you good".

Step 1: Sounds like a Combat Cleric. Progress Stats/HPs/Saves like Cleric
Step 2: Sounds like you want cheap/easy raising of undead. Use Turn Undead to Eschew Materials Necromancies that make you goons
Step 3: Undead are tougher around me Gain aura equivalent to True Necro Aura of Desecration with improvements for increasing levels
Step 4: They slowly become more undead Start off with minor undead traits, capstone ability is Crucimigration or being enabled to convert to a Lich

[Maerok]

Well how powerful are you looking for these guys to be. Are they officers among the Necromancer's host of minions, or are they the common soldier for them?

I'm thinking that they could have a squadron of minions that follow the Necromancer around which eventually take on sentience.

[ondonaflash]

Okay so this is my first draft class

Necromancer Class
Hit Dice: d6
Class Skills: Concentration, Decipher Script, Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Religion, Knowledge: The Planes, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device; Skill points 4+int
Class Features:Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Necros are proficient with all simple weapons, light and medium armor, and all types of shield (except tower).
Saving Throws: Fort: High, Will: High, Reflex: Low, Base Attack: Medium

Aura: All Necromancers have a corrupt and vile aura, tainted by death.

Spells: I'm still working on that part but so far I think their spell list will be made up of at least the Necromancy and Death domain/school. Possibly Evil, and maybe some of the other domains that apply to the dead. My sources are incomplete to say the least. Spell DCs will probably be constitution based, as well as spell levels, since such vile magicks take their toll on the body, as well as the soul.

Rebuke Undead: As written in the Player's Handbook

Summon Minion: The Necromancer has an undead minion who guards and aids him, obeying all of its master's commands. As its master grows stronger the Minion becomes sturdier and more reliable. (I don't have a stat or upgrade sheet for the minion but I think the base creature will be a ghoul and it will improve from there.) If the minion dies it takes a part of the master's life force with it, doing constitution damage... equivalent to that of a dead familiar.

Dark Rites: Every five(three?) levels the Necromancer can perform one of the following rituals which grant him greater powers in service of Delepitore.
Vile Bolt: Once per day for each time the Necromancer has performed the ritual, the Necromancer can send forth a bolt of dark magic designed to damage the soul of the target. It deals 1d4 Wisdom? damage. Will check takes half.
Corrupting Touch: Drains the vitality from the body of the targeted creature and pulls it into the caster, doing 1d4 strength and constitution damage and giving the caster 2d4 Constitution for 24 hours. Fort halves, no spell resistance.
Bone Armor: Once per day the caster can summon a layer of bone which braces and strengthens his current armor adding +2 to his AC. It lasts 1 hour for each class level the character has in Necromancer.
Fortify Undead: Once per day for each time the Necromancer has performed this ritual the Necromancer can strengthen all the undead within 25ft radius, increasing their base stats by +1, adding an additional die to their hit dice, and increasing their attack bonus, saving throws, and AC by 2
(And I need more rituals.)

[ondonaflash]

Okay, so basically you are looking to create is a "I walk into combat wearing the skeletons of my past enemies and summon an army of zombies who go forth and smash you good".

Step 1: Sounds like a Combat Cleric. Progress Stats/HPs/Saves like Cleric
Step 2: Sounds like you want cheap/easy raising of undead. Use Turn Undead to Eschew Materials Necromancies that make you goons
Step 3: Undead are tougher around me Gain aura equivalent to True Necro Aura of Desecration with improvements for increasing levels
Step 4: They slowly become more undead Start off with minor undead traits, capstone ability is Crucimigration or being enabled to convert to a Lich

All of that is accurate, but I'd have no idea how to implement that last bit.

[Maerok]

This seems like a good start.

You could take a look at Libris Mortis. A lot of those prestige classes are rather weak but could be scavenged for ideas (Pale Master look like what you might be interested in; they get grafts and necromantic touch abilities).

[Lord Orcus]

Hey here's an idea, model it after the necromancers from garth nix's abhorsen books, just give them a bandolier of bells and replace their evil marks with whatever you want.

[ondonaflash]

Well how powerful are you looking for these guys to be. Are they officers among the Necromancer's host of minions, or are they the common soldier for them?

I'm thinking that they could have a squadron of minions that follow the Necromancer around which eventually take on sentience.

More like Officers among minions, there's a ranking system but basically the Necromancer's biggest advantage has been their legions of minions.

[Devils_Advocate]

The Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror is a specialist caster akin to the Warmage and Beguiler. It has the gradual transformation into a lich thing. Lots of debuffing and summoning and controlling of undead. The book doesn't really specify a source for their power, so the class is practically begging to have some neat homebrew fluff attached to it in that regard.

Looking at Libris Mortis couldn't be a bad idea if you want to focus on undead to any significant extent.

[Stormthorn]

Since they sold their soul they should have an ability making them immune to spells that remove their soul and resistant to death effects.



More like Officers among minions, there's a ranking system but basically the Necromancer's biggest advantage has been their legions of minions.
what about this:
Once per day you higher level necros (level 10+) can summon 2d10+class level shadows or 1/3 that number of Greater Shadows. The downside to this very powerful ability (summoning about 60HD of shadows at level 10) is that they only last 1 minute before they all disapear. Like the panic button if things go bad for the necromancer. The Necro also doesnt control the Shadows, but they will not willingly attack any necromancer.

And then give them the same capstone ability as a Horned Harbinger: They can control caster level x 10 HD of undead. Yea. I know. Its insane.

[Maerok]

And then give them the same capstone ability as a Horned Harbinger: They can control caster level x 10 HD of undead. Yea. I know. Its insane.

And the HH uses 2*(Class Level+Cha) for his caster level for his 3/day animate dead SLA, IIRC.

[ondonaflash]

Okay, I'll dig some of those PrCs out and post my second draft in a week or so. Thanks for the help and if you have any more advice feel free to post.

[Devils_Advocate]

I'll just note that Dread Necromancer is a base class, not a prestige class. I think it's at least very close to what you're looking for if not already ideal as it is.

[Stormthorn]

So...how what sort of undead could a Dread Necro 20, Horned Harbinger 10, Master of Shrouds 5, Pale Master 4, Wizard (Necro, enchanced Undead Varient) 1 be able to toss out?

[Set]

Secret College of Necromancy has a fairly decent Necromancer standalone class (and a Death Knight fighter version that is heavily necromantic as well).

My last custom 'necromancer' class used the Factotum as a chassis, but had the character collect skulls and draw upon the residue left (the same residue that is contacted by Speak with Dead, not in any way the actual soul of the deceased, more like the Egyptian khaibit or shadow-of-the-soul) to channel various skills, feats and class abilities of the deceased. As the level in 'Deathspeaker' increased, the character became able to channel higher and higher levels of class ability from their collection of skulls, allowing them to mimic the functions of other characters (always at somewhat reduced level to their own, much like the Factotum). Arcane or divine spellcasting ability would come from spells prepared / known by the skulls available to them, with their innate power being the ability to channel negative energy (similar to the Dread Necromancer, but with a bit of a negative-energy-blasting Warlock thrown in, again, at much reduced power levels compared to a true Warlock). This sort of necromancer would end up channeling abilities (and feats and skills) from the various skulls in their collection (making it easy for the DM to control exactly what powersets they gained, and, in extreme situations, to take away anything that proved unbalancing by arranging for a skull to be destroyed).

It was a funky necromantic twist on the Factotum.