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Enochi
2009-05-21, 02:39 AM
Race: Shifter

Stats: 18 17 16 15 14 13
Classes
Monk 1/Forsaker 3/Something 1/Fist of Forest 1/Warshaper 4/First of Forest +2

1: Power attack (Monk Overwhelming), Great Fortitude (Flaw), Lightning Reflexes(Flaw), Iron will (Otyugh Hole)
3: VoP
6: Superior Unarmed Combat
9: Improved Natural Attack
12: open
15: open
18: open

with the 18 in con +8 vop +4 Morphing +3 Forsaker +5 ability enhancement from level nets me a 38 con with just this. This gives me Dex, Wis, and Conx2 to AC so I should be able to get close to 60 ac by lvl 20 no sweat.

My Unarmed Damage is 2d6 with 1 enhancement by Sup Unarmed and 2 by fist of Forest then 2 size increases 1 by Warshaper and 1 by Imp NA gives me 4d6 damage

My DM okayed the use of Warshaper with Forsaker the reasoning being Shifting is a Natural part of being a shifter as such all a warshaper is doing is learning to control that better.

So I currently have 5th level open to suggestion along with 13-20.

Malacode
2009-05-21, 03:31 AM
Let's get this suggestion out of the way fast...

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian! That trades in the fast movement 10 for pounce, the best aternate class feature ever, works for any class. Every melee character ever could be improved with this dip. Besides, Rage might work well for this character. You might also look into other PrC's that advance Wildshape if your DM is going to allow Shifting to qualify. One of my mates is really into Wildshape, I'll ask him about good classes that net additional abilites.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-21, 08:29 AM
Don't forget a Monk's Belt. Boosting unarmed damage is generally less effective than other types of bonus damage, but if that's what you're going for, might as well.Didn't see VoP, that changes things.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-05-21, 09:45 AM
You need to take Sacred Vow to get Vow of Poverty, but it looks like you just forgot to put it down as your level 1 feat.

Gaining feats via the locations in Complete Scoundrel costs character wealth, any Otyugh Hole feat costs 3,000 gp. The soonest you could have gained that going by wealth by level is at level 4, and you cannot gain it after taking VoP because you no longer have any wealth to spend.

"All of the following are class features of the warshaper prestige class. The class features function only when the warshaper is in a form other than her own." A Shifter is not capable of taking any different forms, Fist of the Forest is not capable of taking any different forms. Even though you qualify for Warshaper, you won't be able to benefit from its class features unless someone else casts a Polymorph or similar effect on you. Slightly modifying your normal form does not count as being in a form that's not your own, it's still your own form just a little bit different.

As it stands, the build doesn't work. You can't have any Otyugh Hole feats before level 4, so you can't take Forsaker from level 2. Using Shifter or Changeling to get Warshaper is extremely cheesy, and a Shifter can't even benefit from its class features without other abilities that actually change it into another creature.

EarFall
2009-05-21, 09:50 AM
Let's get this suggestion out of the way fast...

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian! That trades in the fast movement 10 for pounce, the best aternate class feature ever, works for any class. Every melee character ever could be improved with this dip. Besides, Rage might work well for this character. You might also look into other PrC's that advance Wildshape if your DM is going to allow Shifting to qualify. One of my mates is really into Wildshape, I'll ask him about good classes that net additional abilites.

He'd need the DM to allow alignment shifts though... there's quite a few who don't.

Enochi
2009-05-21, 12:28 PM
You need to take Sacred Vow to get Vow of Poverty, but it looks like you just forgot to put it down as your level 1 feat.

Gaining feats via the locations in Complete Scoundrel costs character wealth, any Otyugh Hole feat costs 3,000 gp. The soonest you could have gained that going by wealth by level is at level 4, and you cannot gain it after taking VoP because you no longer have any wealth to spend.

"All of the following are class features of the warshaper prestige class. The class features function only when the warshaper is in a form other than her own." A Shifter is not capable of taking any different forms, Fist of the Forest is not capable of taking any different forms. Even though you qualify for Warshaper, you won't be able to benefit from its class features unless someone else casts a Polymorph or similar effect on you. Slightly modifying your normal form does not count as being in a form that's not your own, it's still your own form just a little bit different.

As it stands, the build doesn't work. You can't have any Otyugh Hole feats before level 4, so you can't take Forsaker from level 2. Using Shifter or Changeling to get Warshaper is extremely cheesy, and a Shifter can't even benefit from its class features without other abilities that actually change it into another creature.

1. The characters start at level 3 with 3k gold for items and I okayed the O hole with my DM. Cause also the hero shouldnt be able to take the O hole until 3rd level but fudging this a bit was no big deal.

2. Ill admit I completely missed the form that is not your own bit. That hurts the build a good bit cause since as a forsaker I cant have magic cast on me so my forsaker's fast healing is the only other healing I have and it its limited to a certain number of points a day. So what should I do to replace it or fix it so it works.

The build is designed to be effective as a tank and soak up the damage for the rest of the party. Items are extremely rare in this game giving VoP the boost to make it effective. Its weaknesses are flying, ghost-type, and lack of healing. So how do I fix it.

Keld Denar
2009-05-21, 01:07 PM
Neither Forsaker nor VoP are a good way to solve your issues. You did read the part in Forsaker about sacrificing magic items to maintain your abilities, right? And you know that VoP requires not that you don't keep magic items, but that you DONATE most of your WBL? So...are you giving away your share of treasure to not violate your Vow, or are you smashing it to maintain your Forsaker abilities?

If you want to be tanky, try this:

Dwarf Ranger1/Fighter2/Barbarian2/Deepwarden2/ExoticWeaponMaster1/OccultSlayer5/PiousTemplar7

Only 2 stats you need are Str and Con, with at least a 14 wisdom after magic is applied, and then only at the highest levels. You have 5 HD of d12, 9 HD of d10, and 6 HD of d8. Take Steadfast Determination and your will save is based off Con, and you never autofail fort saves on a 1, which, your fort save should be through the roof, and with Mettle from PT, you'll never be affected by a Fort/Partial again. You don't have any qualms about receiving buffs or spells from allies and you have great resiliance vs damage (huge HPs) and vs spells (Occult Slayer + great saves). For weapon, get a Waraxe (2handed) with EWM's Uncanny Blow for 2x str to damage OR Urgrosh (again, 2handed) with EWM's Flurry of Strikes for more attacks with 2handed PA goodness.

Good?

Enochi
2009-05-21, 01:57 PM
No not really.

Also as for the Vow/Forsaker clash I dont think that is an issue. The VoP forsaker with give away all gold and a non-magical items to the needy and would smash the magical because he sees them as destructive and evil. He wouldnt give things he thinks would hurt people to them. Also even if he doesnt smash magic items the only ability he loses is his DR/ which Vow of Poverty covers nicely.

Now the size lose of Warshaper drops my fist damage to 3d6 and my AC into the mid-high 50s but other then that doesnt hurt horrribly.

Im am trying to fix this build if possible not go to a completely different one. If I have to change some things fine alot of thing fine...everything no.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-05-21, 02:32 PM
I'd recommend Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 5/ Nature's Warrior 1/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF 3. Get Power Attack, Alertness, and Combat Reflexes at level 1, Ancestral Relic at 3, Leap Attack (6), Frozen Wild Shape from Frostburn (9), and Robilar's Gambit at 12. Your feat at level 15 can be anything you want, but at level 18 you should get Defensive Sweep (PH2). Your Nature's Warrior ability should be Nature's Weapon, which makes all of your natural weapons count as magic so you can overcome damage reduction and hit incorporeal foes.

Your Ancestral Relic should be a belt, each time you upgrade it you can get rid of any properties it already has and respend the full value. At level 8 it can be made into a Monk's Belt, to get your Wisdom bonus to AC. You should work on getting a Wilding Clasp from MIC asap. Take your share of the loot in items that would have been sold, counting them at half value, and sacrifice their full value into your relic, thereby doubling the amount of wealth you get from encounters. When you get spells you should prepare Rhino's Rush, and maybe get a few 1st level Pearls of Power since they're cheap.

Starting out you should use a Glaive and armor spikes with a chain shirt. Go Str 14, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 15, Wis 17, Cha 13, increase your Int at level 4, Wis at 8, and Con at every level after that. I'd probably go Human or Wild Elf instead of Shifter with this build.

At level 5 you can Wild Shape into a Fleshraker (MM3), at level 8 you can use Troll or Skullcrusher Ogre (MM3), at 9 switch to Cave Troll (MM3), and at level 12 you can use War Troll (MM3) or 12-headed Cryohydra thanks to Frozen Wild Shape. Using Robilar's Gambit you can make a 12-bite AoO every time you're attacked. At level 13 you'll get all the extraordinary special qualities of your form, including SR, Regeneration, Fast Healing, and certain types of DR such as X/-, X/Adamantine, Silver, or Cold Iron, and X/bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing.

For an even better build, go Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) of Isis (LA +1), from the Pharaonic pantheon in Deities and Demigods. Go Master of Many Forms 7/ Monk 1/ Nature's Warrior 1/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF 3/ Tattooed Monk. Take Alertness, Endurance, and Power Attack, and Combat Reflexes at 1, Track at 3, Leap Attack at 6, Improve Grapple from Monk, Frozen Wild Shape at 9, anything at 12 and 15 and maybe Robilar's Gambit at 18. You can Wild Shape as a free action with no daily limit. Starting at ECL 3 you'll be able to take 13 HD forms, choosing small to large Humanoids and Giants (War Troll, Cave Troll), or a Hawk. I'd go Str 13, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 15 for this build, since you can always be in a strong physical form from the start. You won't even need magic items, but maybe get Armbands of Might and upgrade them with +Armor, and the typical AC boosting items like a Ring of Protection, Cloak of Resistance, Gloves of Dex, etc. You'll be an extraplanar Outsider, so you won't need to sleep or eat.

Enochi
2009-05-21, 03:44 PM
I admit it....you have me drooling...I bow before the master

Enochi
2009-05-21, 03:59 PM
Though I question 1 thing where in Master of many forms does it state that it stack with druid level for HD? Cause it seems to me that I would be stuck with some pretty low hit die monster forms?

Nevermind its in the errata.