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legion
2009-05-22, 10:29 AM
Hello,

I hope I am asking this in the right area and hope I can ask this at all. If I cannot, please let me know.

I could use some help with a 40 point build for my session tonight. My character starts at 5th level and there are characters that are as high as 13th level in the group! I know, not very balanced.

I want to play a dwarf that is either a priest or fighter, but I am leaning towards priest. The pantheon was made by the DM and I do not know what my options are.

I get 40 points and here are the starting dwarven stats. No more than 10 points may be added in a single attribute. I can ONLY use the players handbook to start with.

Str 9, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 9, Cha 5.

Any help would be appreciated. I also get +1 attribute for being 4th level.


I am starting another character which is a Factotum in another campaign. Is thet character good enough to play against tough in tough situations?

The Glyphstone
2009-05-22, 10:31 AM
Take Cleric, cast Sanctuary, sit and hide while your much higher level teammates feed you loads of XP. :)

legion
2009-05-22, 10:44 AM
It does sound like bs, that the dm is bringing his girlfriend and her character from another city and everyone else starts at 5th'

Bulwer
2009-05-22, 10:47 AM
By 40 points, do you mean a 40 point buy system for attributes? If so, that base list of stats was what you're using instead of a base, instead of the usual 8?

Dacia Brabant
2009-05-22, 11:08 AM
My character starts at 5th level and there are characters that are as high as 13th level in the group! I know, not very balanced.

Uhhh, this is a huge problem right here and has to be rectified before you can even worry about stats, skills, feats and other stuff. Being 1 level below is probably fine, but an 8-level discrepancy between PCs is untenable in D&D, well not without game-breaking stuff I guess but then that really isn't fixing anything. The DM needs to let you start roughly equal to the other characters or else there's no point in you playing because you won't be able to keep up and you'll probably get one-hit killed in the first encounter.

Kaiyanwang
2009-05-22, 11:11 AM
Sorry if I jump in the thread this way:

the 40-point thing is a kind of houserule or there is a suggestion in some place?

Because IIRC, the DMG caps the points to 32 (don't get me wrong, just to know if it's "official").

The Glyphstone
2009-05-22, 11:21 AM
Uhhh, this is a huge problem right here and has to be rectified before you can even worry about stats, skills, feats and other stuff. Being 1 level below is probably fine, but an 8-level discrepancy between PCs is untenable in D&D, well not without game-breaking stuff I guess but then that really isn't fixing anything. The DM needs to let you start roughly equal to the other characters or else there's no point in you playing because you won't be able to keep up and you'll probably get one-hit killed in the first encounter.

Actually, his second post leads me to believe that it's the same problem from the other direction...



It does sound like bs, that the dm is bringing his girlfriend and her character from another city and everyone else starts at 5th'

Sounds like the DM is giving his girlfriend special treatment by making her a level 13 with a party of level 5 characters....this has "bad situation' written all over it.

legion
2009-05-22, 11:23 AM
I cannot make the dm do anything he does not want and this is what I have to play with. I'll just play smart.

Anyway, yes I have 40 points to build and I gave you the base stats of

9/8/12/8/9/5

So maybe-- 19/18/22/8/19/5 with +1 left over. Any suggestions?

Bulwer
2009-05-22, 11:26 AM
I cannot make the dm do anything he does not want and this is what I have to play with. I'll just play smart.

Anyway, yes I have 40 points to build and I gave you the base stats of

9/8/12/8/9/5

So maybe-- 19/18/22/8/19/5 with +1 left over. Any suggestions?

So, you're not using the normal point buy rules, nor are you limited to 18 to start with? You're just adding up to 40 points total, up to a max of 10 per stat.

I'd suggest going with even numbers as much as possible. Maybe 18/18/22/10/18/5?

legion
2009-05-22, 11:31 AM
I know that is not normal, but that does not have anything to do with what I am asking.

I am asking for build and class help with what I posted.

Please someone just answer the questions about the build and class.

Bulwer
2009-05-22, 11:36 AM
Cleric is much stronger than fighter, even using just the Player's Handbook, so I'd go with that. At level 5, you have 2 feats to select. As a cleric, you have 2 domains to pick as well. Spells, you can pick as you prepare them for the day.

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what the best picks are for a core-only cleric, so I'll bow out of this thread. Best of luck, though.

legion
2009-05-22, 11:42 AM
So, I only get 3 domains to pick my spells from? What about the spells such as healing that you do not have to pray for?

Bulwer
2009-05-22, 11:48 AM
No, a cleric gets to pick 2 domains in addition to normal spells. A domain comes with a cool power and one spell per level that you can cast in addition to the regular stuff.

legion
2009-05-22, 11:52 AM
Give me an example so you do not lose me.

Say I pick-- Healing, Competition and Orc.

And say my god is anyone you feel you know enough of to flesh out the build. How would that work?

The Glyphstone
2009-05-22, 11:59 AM
You pick any two of those three. You know all normal Cleric spells and can fill your normal Cleric spell slots with them. Also, you get 1 Domain Spell Slot of each level you can cast (so, 1st 2nd and 3rd for a 5th level cleric) which can only be filled with a spell of the appropriate level from either of your two domains.

So you, as a 5th level Cleric with the Competition and Healing domains, would have 3 1st level, 2 2nd level, and 1 3rd level spell per day to use however you chose to prepare them. Also, you would have 1st level slot to fill with either Cure Light Wounds or the 1st level Competition spell, a 2nd level slot to fill with either Cure Moderate Wounds or the 2nd level Competition spell, and a 3rd level slot to fill with either Cure Serious Wounds or the 3rd level Competition spell.

Justin B.
2009-05-22, 12:01 PM
Wow, alright, here's a link to a great 3.5 online reference site:

http://www.d20srd.org

Go there, read up on the Cleric spellcasting to familiarize yourself with it.

Essentially you have three lists you can cast from. The regular cleric list, and two domain lists, for each spell level you can prepare a single domain spell from either of your domain lists.

So if you have Second level spells and the Good and the Healing domains you can choose to prepare either Cure Moderate Wounds or Circle of Protection against Evil. Not both, because you only have one domain slot.

Also, do not, under any circumstances, prepare healing spells. You can spontaneously convert any spell you have prepared to a healing spell of equal level. Meaning you can cast heals all day long if you want and not have to worry about preparing a single one. This amps up your flexibility quite a bit.

legion
2009-05-22, 12:10 PM
Yes, I understand the heal and spontaneous casting.

Are you saying I get 1-domain, +1 an additional domain for each level that is being cast.

Muad'dib
2009-05-22, 12:23 PM
Yes, I understand the heal and spontaneous casting.

Are you saying I get 1-domain, +1 an additional domain for each level that is being cast.

No.

At first level a cleric gets two domains. You only ever get two domains and don't gain more as you level up unless you take one of a handful of prestige classes that grant new domains. A domain is a domain power plus a spell list. As a cleric you have spells of different levels. You have one domain spell for every level of spells you have. This domain spell must be prepared from one of the two lists of domain spells you have and may not be converted into a healing spell.

Majuba
2009-05-22, 12:37 PM
Assuming you have the choice, I'd suggest going 1-2 levels of fighter, then cleric. With that high (potential) Dex and Str, you might consider dual-wielding dwarven waraxes (or perhaps an Urgosh for the two-handed potential).

Cleric spells - you can choose *any* spells on the cleric list to prepare each day, from the levels that you can cast. You can *also* cast 1 spell from each level that you can cast from either of the two domains you choose. Your domain choices are based on the god you pick (which you said you don't know the list). Good ones to look for would be War (if the god's favored weapon is a good one for you), Luck, maybe Trickery (cleric access to invisibility). Strength isn't bad.

For instance:
Kulnamen Stonegrinder, male Dwarf, Ftr2/Clr3
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 20, Cha 5
HP: 10+1d10+3d8+30 = 59 (average)
AC: 19 (+8 Full Plate, +1 Dex, +1 shield (two-weapon defense))
BAB/Grapple: +4/+8
Attack: +10 Waraxe, 1d10+6 (20/x3) (two-handed)
Power attack (4): +6, 1d10+14 (20/x3)
Full attack: +6/+6 Waraxe, 1d10+4 / 1d10+2 (20/x3)
Power attack (4): +2/+2, 1d10+8 / 1d10+6 (20/x3)
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +4, Will +8 [+2 vs. Spells, Spell-like, & Poison]
Skills: Concentration +12 (6 ranks, 6 mod), Jump + 3 (4 ranks, 4 mod, -5 armor check), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4 (4 ranks)
Feats: 1st Two-Weapon Fighting, F-1 Two-Weapon Defense, F-2 Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe), 3rd Power Attack [Next level: 6th Cleave]
Gear: Masterwork Full Plate (1650gp), Two Masterwork Dwarven Waraxes (660gp)
If you have more money, get +1 Full plate, then +1 Waraxes, then Cloak of Resistance.
Domains: Luck & Trickery. Luck Power: 1 free reroll per day. Trickery Power: Bluff, Hide, & Move Silent as class skills.
Spells: [You can release any of these spells for Cures, except the domain spells]
0th (4): Pick any 4 really,
1st (4+1 domain): Shield of Faith (+2 AC), Bless (+1 attack - good for you, good for everyone), Comprehend Languages (can't let the elf call you dumb), Sanctuary, + Domain Entropic Shield (20% miss chance from ranged attacks).
2nd (2+1 domain): Bull's Strength (+4 Str), Resist Energy (10 resist), + Domain Invisibility

I will say from personal experience running it, that an 8 level difference is *not* too much. I've run up to 12 level differences -- as long as it's not 1 and 13, you're fine with a little caution. The difference will close up quickly.

Good luck!

Zergrusheddie
2009-05-22, 01:10 PM
The massive level difference means that either the encounters are going to be a cakewalk as you watch the 13th level clean up the CR 5 encounter or it's going to be auto-death because the DM throws an Adult Dragon at you to be a challenge for the 13th level. You should try like hell to get this rectified. Considering that many campaigns spend most of their time below level 12, the balance of power in the group will be way, way off and it may encroach on the entertainment of other players.

Stats for a Dwarf Cleric:
STR: 16
DEX: 8
CON:14 (16)
WIS: 18
INT: 10
CHA: 14 (12)

Use a two-hander and be in melee. At low level, you will be nearly as effective as the other melee in combat. At higher level, you will be more effective than the Fighter once you start buffing yourself. If The DM throws out monsters to challenge the level 13, hide behind a bush so they don't attack you

In the campaigns I have played, we have found that healing in combat is not that efficient because damage taken is almost always greater than what can be Cured. Once targets start having multiple attacks, it will become a losing Arms Race. Take Ogres for example: they are CR3 and deal 2d8+7 damage. At level 5, your best cures will be 3d8+5 and you will only have 3 of them. That doesn't mean that you should never heal in combat but you will have to prioritize.

The Cleric Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=691564) can answer a lot of your questions and give you some good advice.

Best of luck
-Eddie

legion
2009-05-22, 03:44 PM
I have a two handed war hammer for 2d6. What feats would you suggest for that?

Zergrusheddie
2009-05-22, 07:02 PM
I have a two handed war hammer for 2d6. What feats would you suggest for that?

It depends on what roles you want to fill. I would suggest taking Divine Metamagic from Complete Divine; instead of using higher level spells slots you just expend Turn Attempts. Since Turning Undead is almost useless at higher levels once every Undead is either more HD than you can handle or has Turn Resistance, you might as well use it to power your spells. I think that any Cleric would also want Power Attack if they are going to be in melee.

Clerics that focus on melee and use Buffs (Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might) are often called Clericzillas. If you have enough Turn Attempts, you can Persist Divine Power to last 24 hours and from there it just gets silly. With buffs and the stats that I listed, a level 9 Cleric would attack at: +22/+17 for 3d6+18. Adding in Power Attack increases your damage even more. The reason it is called a Clericzilla is because they often out damage Fighters and are still full casters. An example of Clericzilla (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0111.html)

Best of luck mate
-Eddie

legion
2009-05-23, 12:49 AM
I can only have 2-magic schools as a cleric and only from yje phb, so I nixed it.

I ended up dumping the clearic when they did not allow spontaneous casting of healing spells. I thought everyone used that rule now.

I went with -- Fighter 2, Monk 3.

Starting out at 5th level sucks since everyone else is 8th or above other than one 5th level guy who does not show up. I have to start out at the lowest level of a character. There are even Satyr's as characters and I am restricted to the PHB. I can play something else if I play my character up to the DMs standards. By that time, I will not want to give the character up.

What would be a good PrC for what I have built?

Worira
2009-05-23, 01:37 AM
I would strongly suggest you find another game. This group apparently has a biased DM, no sense of balance, and poor understanding of the rules.

legion
2009-05-23, 01:41 AM
Worira, I agree with you. I am on the look for new games. I have been playing since 1979 but this is my first try at 3.5. So, I will learn the rules while I am looking.

Do you have any suggestions of where to look? I tried a hobby shop and the southwestern ohio rpg. There is a group that plays once a month but I still want one more to play in.

sofawall
2009-05-23, 01:54 AM
Play-by-Post is a fun method. Google it.

legion
2009-05-23, 11:22 AM
Can someone give me a link to character optimization on this site?