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Niezck
2009-05-24, 12:23 PM
Uhm, time to display my noobyness for all to see ...

Would the True Strike bonus apply to ranged touch attacks, as per ray spells?

So, for example, could I cast True Strike followed by Scorching Ray and get +20 to hit with the rays?

Also, while I'm on that note, am I right in thinking that Maximize Spell makes Scorching Ray have 3 rays?

Thanks in advance.

Please see last post.

The Rose Dragon
2009-05-24, 12:25 PM
Would the True Strike bonus apply to ranged touch attacks, as per ray spells?

Yes .

Keld Denar
2009-05-24, 12:25 PM
The short answer is: Yes.

The long answer is:
YYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Attack rolls are attack rolls are attack rolls are attack rolls. Doesn't matter.

arguskos
2009-05-24, 12:27 PM
Also, while I'm on that note, am I right in thinking that Maximize Spell makes Scorching Ray have 3 rays?
No, it doesn't. Maximize only affects numeric variables. The number of rays you get isn't a variable, it's a set number based on level. The damage dice are variable, since 4d6 has a vast number of possible results from rolling it, so Maximize sets them to their max, or 24.

Talic
2009-05-24, 12:28 PM
On the Maximize? No. The number of rays is not a variable effect. At any one time, it's a set effect, based on caster level.

Maximize spell can do many things. But it always does them to rolls that the player would normally make.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-05-24, 12:30 PM
True Strike adds its bonus on your next attack roll, so if Scorching Ray gets multiple rays you would only get the bonus on one of them. It's not really worth doing since most opponents' AC bonuses are armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses, which ranged touch attacks ignore anyway.

Maximize Spell doesn't work that way. The level-dependent effects, such as range, number of dice, and other effects such as number of rays, still use your actual caster level, Maximize does not change that. Any dice rolled, such as the 4d6 for your Scorching Ray, instead are treated as their maximum result. If Scorching Ray had 1d4 rays instead of being based on caster level, then you would get the maximum result from that. It only maximizes die rolls that are numeric effects of the spell (i.e. it does nothing for Confusion or Prismatic Spray, as those rolls are not numeric effects).

Niezck
2009-05-24, 12:32 PM
Ah, I'm a fool. Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me folks :)

arkol
2009-05-24, 12:32 PM
If you're high enough level to cast 2 rays with Scorching ray, I belive that true strike only applies to one of them right?

Ultra-ninja'ed

The Rose Dragon
2009-05-24, 12:33 PM
If you're high enough level to cast 2 rays with Scorching ray, I belive that true strike only applies to one of them right?

Indeed. A single casting of True Strike affects only a single attack roll.

#Raptor
2009-05-24, 12:52 PM
Afaik Twin Spell from complete arcane (pg. 84) would do what you're looking for. Ups the spell level by 4 though, maximze only ups it by 3. So if you have some 9-th level slots to burn...

One ray has 4d6, with maximze its 4x6, at level 11 and above you get 3 rays - with twin spell its 6 rays.
4x6x6 = 144 fire damage.

Cast a quickend true strike first, then blast away.

I'm fairly sure though that there are alot of better direct damage spells (guys who really know arcane classes... please feel free to correct me/show us wich are better :smallsmile:).

The Glyphstone
2009-05-24, 12:55 PM
Slap on Energy Substitution (Sonic) or Energy Substitution (Cold)+ Lord of the Uttercold. Fire's the most common resistance/immunity out there, whereas almost nothing is Sonic-Proof. 1/2 Cold and 1/2 effectively unresistable negative energy is a decent followup, though it costs an extra feat.

arguskos
2009-05-24, 12:57 PM
Slap on Energy Substitution (Sonic) or Energy Substitution (Cold)+ Lord of the Uttercold. Fire's the most common resistance/immunity out there, whereas almost nothing is Sonic-Proof. 1/2 Cold and 1/2 effectively unresistable negative energy is a decent followup, though it costs an extra feat.
Toss Energy Sub (elec) and Born of the Three Thunders on that instead! Make it totally worth your time to cast, since with Scorching Ray, that's THREE people that get to make saves. :smallbiggrin:

Niezck
2009-05-24, 01:03 PM
To save making a new thread ...

Would the Energy Affinity (Fire) bonus, from the UA Variant Wizard, apply to the Precocious Apprentice caster level check to use a fire spell?

Talic
2009-05-24, 01:11 PM
Most things that boost caster level boost it for all purposes, including the Faerun feat that boosts CL for fire spells, the Reserve feat that boosts Caster level for fire spells, and the UA ability which does the same.

monty
2009-05-24, 01:39 PM
On the Maximize? No. The number of rays is not a variable effect. At any one time, it's a set effect, based on caster level.

Maximize spell can do many things. But it always does them to rolls that the player would normally make.

Too bad Maximize doesn't work on CL-based quantities. Otherwise, all the high-level sorcerers would be winning the game with their infinity-d6 Wings of Flurry.

Chronos
2009-05-24, 03:17 PM
(i.e. it does nothing for Confusion or Prismatic Spray, as those rolls are not numeric effects).The best example of where Maximize (and Empower) doesn't work is Reincarnate. It'd be hilarious if you could use an Empowered Reincarnate to bring someone back as an <Error: Subscript out of range>.

Sinfire Titan
2009-05-24, 03:27 PM
You'd actually be better off using Empower Spell over Maximize Spell. Leaves room for Searing Spell (Sandstorm, removes immunity/resistance to fire).

From the GOD handbook at BG:

Empower Spell: Proven over and over to be a mechanically better choice than Maximize most of the time. +2 levels for +50% to random results. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0)

Keld Denar
2009-05-24, 03:47 PM
Keep in mind that while Empower is good for damage, its also good for a TON of other spells. False Life is a great one to Empower. I personally LOVE Empowering Ray of Enfeeblement or Escalating Enfeeblement (CMage). Empowered Enervation is a great choice as well, if you aren't splitting it, although an Empowered Split Enervation is one of the strongest 8th level spells in any fasion, and makes the 9th level Energy Drain look foolish.

Also for lulz....Empowered Greater Mirror Image. Its gonna get awefully crowded in that 5' square!

Curmudgeon
2009-05-24, 07:27 PM
Too bad Maximize doesn't work on CL-based quantities. Otherwise, all the high-level sorcerers would be winning the game with their infinity-d6 Wings of Flurry. Sorry, but that's not how a maximum works. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum):
If a chain is finite then it will always have a maximum and a minimum. If a chain is infinite then it need not have a maximum or a minimum. For example, the set of natural numbers has no maximum, though it has a minimum. There is no upper bound to caster level, so there is no maximum. That's quite distinct from the maximum existing and being equal to infinity.

Besides, in a world where this trick could work, Pun-Pun has already killed all sorcerers before they were conceived.

shadow_archmagi
2009-05-24, 07:38 PM
The best example of where Maximize (and Empower) doesn't work is Reincarnate. It'd be hilarious if you could use an Empowered Reincarnate to bring someone back as an <Error: Subscript out of range>.

I once had to play the better half of a campaign as an <Error: Subscript out of range> (or ESOOR for short).

It was crazy. Later, we looted a goblin tower and found a Large.

monty
2009-05-24, 07:59 PM
Sorry, but that's not how a maximum works. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum): There is no upper bound to caster level, so there is no maximum. That's quite distinct from the maximum existing and being equal to infinity.

Aw, you're no fun.

Curmudgeon
2009-05-24, 08:04 PM
The best example of where Maximize (and Empower) doesn't work is Reincarnate. It'd be hilarious if you could use an Empowered Reincarnate to bring someone back as an <Error: Subscript out of range>. This is something an experienced DM should be prepared for. After all, they need to handle other cases for Reincarnate:
For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the following table. For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created. The DM could just dump you onto the nonhumanoid extension when you get out of range. Who knows; you might come back as a gray ooze (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ooze.htm#grayOoze)!

Chronos
2009-05-24, 11:50 PM
Or you could just go down the page the corresponding amount in the spell description. For instance, a roll of 120 would be around "with somatic components because he", at least in the 3.0 book (I don't have the dead-tree versions of 3.5).

Quietus
2009-05-25, 12:30 AM
I once had to play the better half of a campaign as an <Error: Subscript out of range> (or ESOOR for short).

It was crazy. Later, we looted a goblin tower and found a Large.

This... is fantastic. If I had a roommate, he'd be pissed at me laughing so loud at 1:30 in the morning.

Then I'd force them to read the thread if they were a gamer, and they would understand.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-05-25, 12:53 AM
Hmmm... Empowered Mirror Image... up to 12 images... less than a 10% chance of hitting me. I likes this.

The other problem with True Strike + RTA-type-spell is actions. True Strike is a Standard Action. So it's a two-round combo. Round 1: cast True Strike. Round 2: Cast RTA spell at +20.

The problem is, you don't want to wait to round 2 just to be able to cast the RTA at the critter that, by round two, is probably eating you alive. You want to blast it on the first round.

This conundrum is quickly solved with Quicken Spell. If you are a spontaneous caster, feel free to use Rapid Metamagic feat to be able to do it anyways. All the cool kids are doing it. It's a 5th level spell at that point, but you get a +20 to your RTA. So you can go Quicken True Strike + Empowered Split Ray Enervation for WTFPWN negative levels.