Tomb of Horrors

[Rutskarn]

Awright, those of you who read my blog (hereafter referred to as, "The Chosen People") know a little somethin' somethin' about my personal life. For those of you who don't read the blog, and wish to maintain plausible deniability regarding my activities, you may want to skip this spoiler'd part. It's just a bit of setup, and isn't strictly necessary to answer my question.

Currently, I am in my senior year of High School. For most seniors, This Times is Prom Times, and they're gearing up for the classic coming-of-age, romantic social event that many of them have been dreaming of since Junior High.

I, of course, am running a D&D session instead.

Specifically, I am planning to run the 3.5 version of Tomb of Horrors. That's right, the bone-crushing, mass-murdering deathtrap itself.

And who says romance is dead?

This is not my first time running this module. I am well-versed in both its 3.5 and 1st edition forms. In fact, I own a copy of the original module.

In addition, I'm an experienced DM, and have had more than my share of practice wrangling a table of uncooperative players.

There's just on problem, really.

8 people signed up for it.

By necessity, I have each of these players playing on the same day, at the same time, with me as the sole DM. Long story. Also, 5 of the players are relatively inexperienced.

The casual observer might, if asked to render judgment, say I was screwed sunny-side-up with an orcish double axe.

I'm not sure I disagree.

Anyway, if anyone has advice for running this session, feel free to chime in.

Details:

1.) I know most of the players fairly well, and there are a minimum of jackholes present. Many will accept suggestions regarding character and playstyle.

2.) Current lineup seems to be: Paladin, Bard, Assassin, Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Wildcard, Wildcard.

3.) My setup for the mission: I decided that, "You guys all meet in a tavern and decide to go after this tomb" was far too boring, so I came up with something a bit more interesting. Essentially, they've all been convicted of capital offenses, and have a choice between the axe and the tomb. Should they emerge with proof of Acerak's demise, they are merely banished. The players seem to have taken this hook to heart, and the party backstories are beginning to resemble less The Fellowship and more The Dirty Dozen.

I recommended the Paladin (inexperienced) have the following backstory: basically, he's a law enforcer that nobody likes because of his unwillingness to tolerate low-level corruption. His superiors attached him as a "warden" to the group of criminals, to supervise them and prevent their escape. Except, not only is he as strong as any one of them and badly outnumbered, he has to go through the tomb with them.

4.) My rules, so far, are as follows: no player infighting, don't do anything too stupid, don't push anyone into traps, try to stay alive, general advisement against making a chapeau of one's backside.

5.) I have 21 days to prepare.

6.) For those of you who don't know: Tomb of Horrors is a little like a carwash. Except instead of cars, there's players, and instead of washing, there's about a thousand cunning deathtraps.

Suggestions? Comments?

[chiasaur11]

Well, it seems you're doing the dirty dozen bit good and proper. The real issue, I figure, isn't so much dealing with the player count as figuring out what to do with the players whose PCs have bit it.

Any ideas there?

[Rutskarn]

Not many, no. Maybe I could have them act as advisors/spectators.

Or, I could have a system where they place bets on the next person to die. That should keep their interest.

[potatocubed]

You could give them a rod of resurrection with only as many charges as PCs. (Watch the in-fighting when somebody dies more than once!) It probably won't make things much easier for them - especially if the rod-carrier dies in a permanent, equipment-destroying way, or his gear gets teleported to Acererak's lair - but it's a little thing.

Plus, smart parties will bury the rod outside the dungeon and retreat to use it. Really smart parties will bury a severed toe or two with it, since then there'll always be enough 'remains' for resurrection to work. (I think. This worked back in 2e...)

[Rhiannon87]

Not many, no. Maybe I could have them act as advisors/spectators.

Or, I could have a system where they place bets on the next person to die. That should keep their interest.

Do you want the players to actually finish the Tomb? Not the characters, necessarily, but the actual players? If so, then having them sit out after their character dies is going to mean that pretty soon, everyone is going to be dead and no one will be playing anymore. It'll be a drawn-out TPK, which IMO doesn't seem terribly fun. If you want the players to bring in new characters, you could have them make up sheets for other "prisoners" who were dumped into the Tomb slightly before the main party. Or something to that effect. The hook you have for this is pretty cool, much more interesting than the standard "let's go kill evil dudes!" thing.

[Pronounceable]

Much as it's a good thing under standard conditions, players who are likely to be attached to their backstoriffic PCs aren't a well fit to ToH. "You met in the tavern and are going into this tomb." might be for the best here.

As for the inevitable dead players, them betting on survivors' dying might put the survivors off.

Not that I got a better alternative. Maybe have them roll instead of you?

EDIT: ^^Hey, that would work.

[Rutskarn]

I have no problem with everyone dying, and the players have no problem with that either. I've set this tomb up as being lethal. I've reinforced, constantly, that they should have no expectation of surviving. This hasn't turned them off the idea, so they probably accept that.

The problem is keeping them entertained while dead.

I'm worried that if I have spare characters, that will make the tomb a bit too easy, or diminish the sense of urgency. With this in mind, I thought of another idea, which I'll run by y'all.

I'd have a set of "fabulous prizes"--crap like dice, or candy. I'll award them under the following circumstances:


A player survives the tomb.
Once dead, the player can place a bet on either which character will die next, or which character (if any) will survive/be last to die. If they win, they get candy.
Something awesome happens.


Actually, if anyone survives, I'm thinking that they all get a prize.

Another thing to keep in mind: this is a one-shot. Several of them have explicitly stated that they made characters they don't mind seeing die horribly.

Examples:

--The Bard, engaged in a lively round of bragging with some fellow adventurers, came to his turn. Knowing that he was looked down on because of his profession, and wanting to look cool, he bragged that he'd slept with the King's daughter. Of course, he hadn't, but for once, he actually managed to make them believe him. They were duly impressed. Well, most of them were. The guy who turned out to be one of the king's personal agents, not so much.

This character is a weasel, a fraud, and a pessimist whose web of lies has finally caught up to him.

As far as the players go, yeah,

[Dogmantra]

Really smart parties will bury a severed toe or two with it, since then there'll always be enough 'remains' for resurrection to work. (I think. This worked back in 2e...)
Doesn't work in 3.5, the "remains" have to be attatched to the body at the time of death.

All I can say to you, Mr. Rutskarn is Good Luck.

[Rutskarn]

Also: one of the rules of their sentence is that upon entering, they can't leave empty-handed.

[SoD]

What I did was this; each PC had a 'ring of three wishes', although it could only be used to raise a fellow PC from the dead, no matter how they died, or what condition their body was in. The rings could, however, be destroyed or lost. So even though they can raise the entire party 3 times, they need one of them to be alive, and if a PC, say, gets immersed in lava, their equipment won't survive.

Hey; you know the bit where all non-living matter ends up with Acerak, depositing the players naked with no equipment somewhere else...what if there's an undead PC?

[Rutskarn]

I think, upon my players, I'll ask for their input--should there be an out, if they die? I'll present both options.

[Elm11]

Hmmmmm... i am intrigued.

I'm afraid to say i can't offer much advice, because i've never run a ToH game, but i don't suppose you could give me a link to the 3.5 ed of it? (i'm not sure if that's legal, if not, sorry, and nvm XD)

[Rutskarn]

Elm: given the fact that it's on Wizard's site, for free, yes, I'm pretty damn sure it's legal.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20051031a

[Maltore]

You could do the betting bit till the last one snuffs it, then if there is time left (don't drag it out too much after the first person dies) slap the vampire template on everybody and start over. I've done something similar with the ghost template in a haunted mansion game I ran, and the players loved it. Ghosts wouldn't work well in the ToH, though, given that they spend most of their time on the Ethereal plane. I know that "you have infinite lives" could work out the wrong way, but you said your players aren't jerks.

[potatocubed]

Also: one of the rules of their sentence is that upon entering, they can't leave empty-handed.

This could be a problem: there are three entrances, and I think at least two of them are deathtraps.

[Rutskarn]

Once they *actually* enter, I mean.

[lyko555]

What I did was this; each PC had a 'ring of three wishes', although it could only be used to raise a fellow PC from the dead, no matter how they died, or what condition their body was in. The rings could, however, be destroyed or lost. So even though they can raise the entire party 3 times, they need one of them to be alive, and if a PC, say, gets immersed in lava, their equipment won't survive.

Hey; you know the bit where all non-living matter ends up with Acerak, depositing the players naked with no equipment somewhere else...what if there's an undead PC?

I wondered about this too. or what about a warforged?

Also I had a small group of my veteran players test the 3.5 version of it they had a wonderful and gruesome time of it.

This saterday Im going to introduce my current group to the slaughterfest.
My way of dealing with the death is to give each person a (save token) its a wish spell that will recall them back to before the put themselves in the position that killed them. For instance for those silly people who like the lava trap, they will appear back on the outside of the room just in time to see there remains disolve.

[Haven]

Currently, I am in my senior year of High School. For most seniors, This Times is Prom Times, and they're gearing up for the classic coming-of-age, romantic social event that many of them have been dreaming of since Junior High.

I, of course, am running a D&D session instead.

Specifically, I am planning to run the 3.5 version of Tomb of Horrors. That's right, the bone-crushing, mass-murdering deathtrap itself.

And who says romance is dead?


For what it's worth, this sounds like a lot more fun. :D

That said, maybe you can have the dead players take over monsters or something? Though I do like the "vampire versions of their dead PCs" idea.

Let us know how it goes, though; the idea of "boxed crooks explore the Tomb of Horrors" sounds like it would be a great movie.

The kind where like one person makes it out alive.

[lyko555]

Also I give you big bonus points if any of your players fall to the sphere of fun :P

[Logalmier]

For when one of your players die, if it's a particularly evil criminal who has been condemned for a capital offense such as mass murder then maybe you can have them come back as an undead creature. The idea will be that they're so weighed down with bad deeds that it's preventing them from moving on. It would fit the description of the characters you players have, and it would be an interesting way to keep them in the game. Or for one of the players that isn't quite so evil, if they die in a particularly bloody death you could have them come back as undead because there end was so traumatic that it prevented them from moving on to the afterlife.

[raptor1056]

My advice: Be utterly, utterly relentless. Make the other players bet relentlessly. Make this a goddam challenge!

[Rutskarn]

Let me be clear: I really don't want players coming back from the dead in any way. I know it's the obvious solution, but when you think about it, it'd just be too damn much of a logistical nightmare to have players coming back over and over again.

For one thing, it cheapens the death to know that there's a soft cushion waiting for them. Even if they don't know it, they'll probably still feel a little gypped. The suggestions you've given (such as undead players) would be something I'd definitely do in my campaigns, but for this particular one-shot, I somehow feel we should let dead characters lie.

Also: deaths in ToH are not neat little demises. It's not a matter of knitting up that nasty hole in the head, or reanimating the pristine bones. No, we're talking about bodies that are disintegrated, crushed into powder, molten, dragged into hell, blown up into pea-sized chunks, and drained of soul.

[graymachine]

Assuming that the experienced players are going to go to lengths to optimize their characters and increase the chances of survival, it seems likely that the inexperienced characters will be the ones to bite it. There in lies a partial solution; when people die cycle them over to playing cohorts of the other players. Obviously, it won't completely work, but coupling it with some other methods you could manage to keep them alive as far as the 12 room or so, an impressive feat.

[lyko555]

hell getting a party passed room 3 and 8 is a Festival worthy event in my book.

[Hawriel]

Well, it seems you're doing the dirty dozen bit good and proper. The real issue, I figure, isn't so much dealing with the player count as figuring out what to do with the players whose PCs have bit it.

Any ideas there?

OOOH OOOHHH!!!

Have the dead players haunt the living ones!! :smallsmile:

[chiasaur11]

OOOH OOOHHH!!!

Have the dead players haunt the living ones!! :smallsmile:

Actually, that might work. The souls able to monitor those still alive and harass them, but unable to actively contribute?

Maybe. Better than the direct undead, at least.

[Doc Roc]

The tomb of horrors really isn't that bad other than the gargoyle...
The issue is that when it kills players, it's often a full on TpK. You might get more satisfaction out of this if you treat it like a golf course, counting TPKs or PKs towards a specific par count. I recommend a save point system, because it really is quite possible for a careless player to kill the party no more than twenty minutes in.

[Haven]

I somehow feel we should let dead characters lie.


Makes sense. How about this, then: when they're dead, they're dead, but give each dead player the opportunity to hand out three or five (or maybe a random amount, like 1d6) +2 bonuses to any PC's roll they choose. Or let them force/allow rerolls, or something. It keeps everyone involved and makes things more exciting as more people die.

[Volkov]

Are they going to fight the real Acererak? Who's an epic level wizard and an epic level cleric? Or are they just going to fight the skull construct that only looks like him?

[Rutskarn]

Haven: that's a good idea, but I'm afraid it'd be too confusing for the newbies to figure out.

Also, it's the real Acerak, but only using the updated rules for him.

Save point: eh, I'll consider it. Maybe give them a mulligan on one TPK, or let them play through fights over again if they all die?


Actually, that might work. The souls able to monitor those still alive and harass them, but unable to actively contribute?

Maybe. Better than the direct undead, at least.

Now this is an idea I can sink my teeth into. Hm.

More later.

[Lapak]

Actually, that might work. The souls able to monitor those still alive and harass them, but unable to actively contribute?

Maybe. Better than the direct undead, at least.This being the Tomb of Horrors, I'd pass each player a notecard when they died, ostensibly listing their 'ghost abilities and limitations,' which can't be shared with the group. Basically limit them to observing the area and sharing ideas with the live players, but not use any actions, spells, powers, or skills.

At the bottom of the notecard, add that the Tomb has cursed their spirit and that they should try to manipulate the remaining party members into joining them however they can, without revealing that they've turned on them. Really alert players will figure this out, possibly before they even fall prey to it.

[Rutskarn]

Less than a week until the game.

Updated class roster:

Cleric (tank role): Very Skilled
Wizard (tactical, not combat): Skilled
Sorceror: Moderate
Fighter: Unskilled
Bard: Unskilled
Paladin: Unskilled
Rogue: Unskilled
Undecided: Unskilled

Yeah. This ain't gonna take long.

[Rutskarn]

Game begins in two hours. I'll be sure to keep you apprised of the outcome, shall I?

[Haven]

Lookin' forward to it. Hope it goes, er, interestingly.

(I was going to say "well", but it's the Tomb of Horrors, so that's not too likely. And I was going to wish you good luck, but really it's your players who need it. :P)

[Jack_Simth]

So... did you end up with a Trapsmith Wizard in the party?

[Rutskarn]

So... did you end up with a Trapsmith Wizard in the party?

Yepper.

Slight personal note:

You know, most people, if told that I was doing Dungeons and Dragons on prom night, would say that I was a pathetic social reject.

Except, there's going to be nine people there, total, all of them friends and three of them girls. And I'm actually hosting something, not attending it.

Yeah. Real introverted.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Yepper.

Slight personal note:

You know, most people, if told that I was doing Dungeons and Dragons on prom night, would say that I was a pathetic social reject.

Except, there's going to be nine people there, total, all of them friends and three of them girls. And I'm actually hosting something, not attending it.

Yeah. Real introverted.Someone on here mentioned a plan to hire strippers to play D&D at a bachelor party a couple weeks ago. Geek!=loser.

[Doc Roc]

Someone on here mentioned a plan to hire strippers to play D&D at a bachelor party a couple weeks ago. Geek!=loser.

That sounds like an amazingly funny campaign diary.

[Jack_Simth]

Yepper.Cool. So I'm curious: How well is the build working out, or did it not survive the non-trap encounters?

[Rutskarn]

Alright, game's over, guys. Here's the scoop:

We didn't finish, because several people had to go home, but we did get within 45 minutes of the very end. We're going to finish it up Monday, hopefully. Here's the casualty count so far:

Zero people.

That's right. Not one person has died.

These people are actually pretty slick. The trapfinders are meticulous. The wizard knows to identify everything, and the combat balance, if a bit underpowered, works well enough to get by. They've second-guessed some of Gygax's more devious inclinations, and managed to tough out the rest.

I'm actually pretty damn impressed.

[Doc Roc]

You do know that identify is the version that only gives the gist of what an item does?

[Coidzor]

Me too. Especially since the most experienced person was going to be a tank cleric of all things. I thought for sure that taking himself out of a roll of actively keeping them from doing something stupid and dying would be a forfeit of a crucial party role to one of the newbs.

But it looks like they've done pretty well, apparently... I'm looking forward to hearing a more detailed writeup later though.

In fact, I'm expecting it, given who you are. :smallwink:

[Rutskarn]

You do know that identify is the version that only gives the gist of what an item does?

Yes. Yes, I do.

[chiasaur11]

As Ruts is a sensible man, and probably tired, I feel I can elaborate on this point more freely, as I have nothing better to do.

He means identify, as in the human behavioral process, not identify the spell.

It's kinda obvious from the context.