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View Full Version : Succubus Variant [PEACH; Need help with CR]



Saithis Bladewing
2006-04-18, 04:18 AM
I have for myself here, a variant Succubus for a gaming world I'm working on. I was planning on using it soon and I thought I'd get some opinions on it. What I do need help with is a CR, as I'm absolute rubbish at putting CR's on creatures. Also, I would like to fix any typos and rules inconsistencies, as I'm pretty much working on memory here (all my D&D books are packed and the SRD can be so damn vague sometimes...)


Daemon Monster Type
Hit Dice: d12
Saves: As Monk
Skills: 4 + Int Bonus
Feats: Standard 1 per 3 levels
BAB: +1/level
Immunities: Acid, cold, electricity, fire, poison.
Misc: All Daemons instinctively know which direction they must travel to reach the closest portal to their home plane within 300 miles.

Succubus
Size/Type: Medium Daemon (Outsider, Extraplanar, Evil)
Hit Dice: 9d12+29 (88 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft., fly 40 ft. (good)
Armour Class: 20 (+4 dex, +6 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+11
Attack: 2 claws +9 (1d8+2/19-20 x2)
Full Attack: 2 claws +9/+4 (1d8+2/19-20 x2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Seductive Aura, Spell-like abilities, Energy Drain, Enthrall
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 8/adamantine, blindsight 60 ft., immunity to acid, cold, electricity, fire and poison, spell resistance 24, telepathy 60 ft., tongues, shapeshifting.
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +12, Will +7
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 30
Skills: Appraise +16, Bluff +22, Diplomacy +22, Hide +17, Knowledge (planes) +16, Move Silently +17, Sense Motive +14.
Feats: Persuasive, Negotiator, Dodge, Mobility
Challenge Rating: N/A
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: None, add class levels.


The Elite Nobility of the Daemonic realms; succubi are what many view to be, in their own way, the mightiest of the otherwordly invaders. Masters of illusion, deception and corruption, the Succubi serve as elite spellcasters and leaders in the Daemonic ranks, and are second in political power only to the Daemonic Princes themselves. Succubi, more than any other daemonic race, enjoy (and indeed, require) contact with mortals. Mortal kingdoms alone hold enough political intrigue to garner their interest, and many Succubi choose to infiltrate the courts of mortal nobility and royalty simply for the thrill of the politics.

Succubi in their natural form strongly resemble comely--if decidely sinister--humans, long and black of hair and red of skin. Where their sockets should contain eyes, an eerie green glow instead obscures, only blotted out by the ocassional blinking of eyelids. Small ivory horns slip out of the succubus' forehead and great, bat-like wings spread from their backs. Succubi average at six and a half feet tall, and are usually surprisingly light-weight. They prefer to always hide their natural form behind many layers of illusion, disguise and shapeshifting, enjoying the skill required in the deception.

In battle, Succubi often use light armour and weapons to increase their chances of victory, relying only on their claws if caught unarmed or confused. While they may wear any number of clothes while disguised as mortals, they tend to prefer revealing clothes over heavy ones in natural form. Succubi who prefer to take male form over female are usually referred to as incubi, but this has no effect on their abilities to seduce or control their enemies.

Combat:
Succubi are generally not warriors, prefering to use their intellect and charisma to outsmart and deceive their opponents. Succubi make judicious use of all their magical abilities, shapeshifting and their seductive aura most of all. If forced into combat, succubi will use either a weapon they are proficient in, or they will viciously rake at their opponents with clawed hands. If given the opportunity to retreat, a succubus will almost always take it even if they hold the upper hand in the battle.

Seductive Aura (Su)
Succubi are deadly creatures known for their ability to seduce any being into acts of passion and love. At will a Succubus may activate or deactivate their aura, which wraps itself around the heart of any who look upon her. Those who encounter (see, feel, smell, touch or even sense through some kind of blindsight)) a Succubus with this aura activated must make an immediate will save (DC 20, charisma-based) or falls under the effect of the aura. Those who succeed in their will save sense something a little odd about the succubus, but so long as she remains in a humanoid shape she does not seem overly suspicious. This aura operates for the most part as a charm person or charm monster spell, though with a few differences.

An infatuated character cannot take any actions that it believes will cause harm to the Succubus, regardless of whether or not the succubus takes any such actions against him/her. 24 hours after the effect takes place, the character must make another immediate will save or he/she will continue to remain under the spell of the succubus for another 24 hours. Furthermore, if the succubus dies, all those affected by her aura must make a fortitude save (DC 18) or lapse into a sickening depression for 1d10 minutes. During this time, they simply lapse into a stupor and remain unable to do anything but mumble to themselves and move at one quarter their normal speed.

The effect of the Seductive Aura can be removed by a dispel magic or remove curse spell. A character who successfully resists the aura or has the effect removed is immune to that succubus' aura for 24 hours. Note that this ability affects not only humanoids, but any non-daemonic sentient creature. A victim under the effect of one succubus' seductive aura cannot be affected by another one's seductive aura. All mortals, regardless of species or gender, are affected by this power.

Energy Drain (Su)
A succubus can drain the energy of a mortal it lures into an act of passion, even if it is as simple as a kiss. If the victim is not willing to be kissed, then the Succubus must first start a grapple, thus provoking an attack of opportunity. The succubus' kiss inflicts a negative level upon the victim and places them under the effect of a suggestion spell, which asks that the victim accept another kiss from the succubus. The victim must succeed at a DC 23 will save to resist the suggestion and a DC 22 fortitude save to remove the negative level. These save DCs are based on charisma. The negative level fades after 1 week of time has passed.

Enthrall (Su)
Succubi have many reasons for luring mortals under their wing, the greatest of these is to create a thrall. A succubus may choose one mortal who has been affected by her aura and begin to turn him/her into a thrall. With the full might of her willpower being pressed upon the victim, the DC of her Seductive Aura increases by 1 for each HD the succubus has. Furthermore, this target gains an SR of 18 against any attempts to use dispel magic or remove curse against him. On the flip side, the DC of all other victims of the seductive aura goes down by 1/2 a point for each HD the succubus has, due to her concentration on one target.

If the chosen thrall fails his/her Will Save for 7 days in a row, they undergo a complete change of personality. Their alignment shifts to neutral evil and they fall under the permanant thrall of the succubus. This essentially acts as a more severe version of the seductive aura, leaving them helpless to the succubus' will (essentially a dominate person or dominate monster spell.) The thrall loses its SR, but dispel magic and remove curse no longer affect the thrall's connection to the succubus. The succubus may also press her aura's normal DC against other foes from here on.

From here, a Succubus can use a thrall for a number of things. The first (and often most common) option is to simply leave it available to serve her needs, whatever they may be. The second option is to consume the target's soul, which provides the succubus with a temporary boost in power. If consumed, the succubus gains +2 to all abilities for 1d3 rounds and +1 temporary HD for 8 days. The third option is a ritual that requires at least 50gp of materials, mostly sulfur and a single tiny ruby. This ritual lasts 30 minutes and slowly transforms the thrall, warping and twisting their bodies with daemonic power. At the end of this ritual, the thrall emerges as a full-strength succubus.

Thralls transformed into Succubi retain all their former class levels, but they also retain some of the effect of thralldom. They are more independent than standard thralls, rather being affected as if under the sway of their 'mother's' seductive aura, unable to attack their creator and willing to do anything to protect her.

If a succubus dies, her thralls must make a DC 17 fortitude save or suffer 3d6 points of wisdom damage. If the mother or the spawn of a succubus dies, they are instantly aware of it and of who dealt the killing blow. Many succubi retain loyalty to their mother and their spawn, and will often seek revenge against their enemies.

Shapeshifting (Su) Succubi are skilled shapeshifters, and their ability to change both their face and body makes them fearsome opponents. As a standard action, a succubus may shapeshift to resemble any Large, Medium or Small humanoid. They can resemble any face, species or gender they desire, and will constantly use this ability to hide their true nature from their enemies and allies alike. Shapeshifting's effects are mostly cosmetic. The only physical effect is in size modifiers and natural attacks (such as poison, claws, etc...) A Succubus cannot use shapeshifting while in an anti-magic field, though she is not reverted to her original form in such a field, instead remaining stuck in her current form. A successful dispel magic spell can revert the Succubus back to her original form.

Tongues (Su) Succubi are permanantly under the effect of a tongues spell. This cannot be subdued, not even by an anti-magic field.

Spell-Like Abilities:
At will-detect good, detect thoughts, ethereal jaunt (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), suggestion, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only). Caster level is equal to base daemon HD plus any class levels that grant caster levels. The save DCs are charisma-based.

Spuddly
2006-04-18, 04:27 AM
Note that this ability affects not only humanoids, but any non-daemonic creature with an intelligence score.

This seems a bit much. Maybe only sentient creatures? Animals becoming infatuated with a Daemon doesn't make sense to me.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-04-18, 04:29 AM
Hmm...it was supposed to say sentient in there somewhere, I'll have to fix that. Sorry for the confusion. <_<;

The_Pyre
2006-04-18, 04:43 AM
Much, much, MUCH more powerful than the standard Succubus. I take it it's only called succubus because there's no other term, eh? ;)

For the CR, based on what I'm seeing, I'd say it's in the double-digit range. The save DC for the aura is kind of high for even level 10 PCs to beat 50% of the time. The DR is weaker (although it is adamantine now instead of cold iron), but this is capable of more self-defense...

The only problem I'm seeing is with the shape-changing ability. Being able to take the form of a troll, getting the natural attacks, and still getting to keep the aura seems a bit of a stretch, IMO. Maybe limit it to humanoids of M size?

Spuddly
2006-04-18, 05:18 AM
Maybe the aura should only affects forms she assumes?

It would be a little awkward to see an elf get amorous with an illithid.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-04-18, 05:37 AM
Much, much, MUCH more powerful than the standard Succubus. I take it it's only called succubus because there's no other term, eh? ;)

For the CR, based on what I'm seeing, I'd say it's in the double-digit range. The save DC for the aura is kind of high for even level 10 PCs to beat 50% of the time. The DR is weaker (although it is adamantine now instead of cold iron), but this is capable of more self-defense...

The only problem I'm seeing is with the shape-changing ability. Being able to take the form of a troll, getting the natural attacks, and still getting to keep the aura seems a bit of a stretch, IMO. Maybe limit it to humanoids of M size?


Eh...Succubus was the term chosen because it completely replaces the old Succubus. It's basically a much more powerful version of the old creature. As for your troll comment...unless something changed in 3.5, trolls are giants, not humanoids, correct? Might lower it to Medium-sized humanoids only, but the only few large-sized humanoids I've seen haven't been too impressive...

CR is definitely in the double digit range. I'm a bit worried about the save DC myself, considering lowering it, but still debating it...

As to Spuddly's comment...well, it is freaky, which is what I was going for, but I'll definitely consider it. :)

Spuddly
2006-04-18, 05:42 AM
Maybe lower the save DC for every type the succubus' assumed form doesn't share with the target's type?

Saithis Bladewing
2006-04-18, 05:43 AM
Maybe lower the save DC for every type the succubus' assumed form doesn't share with the target's type?

Hmmm...it already feels a little too complicated, adding that might just make it way too complicated...It'd probably just be easier in the long run to lower the DC in general.

The_Pyre
2006-04-18, 05:53 AM
*goes to check original post*

Oh, sorry about that. Didn't notice you used humanoid. :P

Is the aura's save DC charisma-based? It would make sense if it was, and for there to be penalties to it depending on the new form's physical appearance (orcs, among other things). ;)

I would suggest one of the following:

1. Lower aura's save DC (or otherwise weaken the ability somehow)
2. Slightly improve DR and/or SR.

Barring a change, the situation might be that the PCs are either too weak to deal with the aura, or too strong to be bothered with the DR and/or SR. Of course, my comments are made without concrete figures, so they are bound to not have any precision at all. :P

ray53208
2006-04-18, 06:02 AM
im curious as the motivations behind the desire to rewrite the succubus?

the creature seems way too powerful. best saves, best bab, immunities...

i guess if i understood why you felt the need to change it i could more appropriately gauge my response.

ray
8)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-04-18, 06:12 AM
To Ray:

The intent, as could be guessed, is to make them extremely powerful. The players (at least the players I game with) are fairly powerful and few things give them pause. It takes something truly rare and powerful to make them back off and think about the fight instead of just charging in. Dragons are a good example for my group, if I mention orcs they usually don't give the coming fight much thought...if I mention Dragon, they'll pause and start thinking, planning, trying to decide what to do.

I want to get that same effect with Daemons. In this world I'm using, the Daemons are sort of the ultimate enemy, a force rarely seen for thousands of years. In D&D, the Outsider monster type, while not exactly a pushover, is still not that incredible. I'm aiming for an unstoppable army of terrible creatures, not a semi-powerful force of monsters with some special demon-themed abilities. The last demon in D&D that actually made me think during a fight was a Balor, and it was still a relatively easy fight compared to a Dragon of comparable HD.


To Pyre:

Increasing the DR and SR? I thought about it I'll admit...not sure what kind of numbers to throw up though.

Definitely need to lower the DC though. Could just set it to a base 10 + Cha bonus, which by my count would give the Aura a DC of 20. Perhaps lower it by 2 if the succubus is not representing the same species, and by 4 if the succubus is not representing the same type? I am worried about complications, but I do think Spuddly might have had the right idea.

Brickwall
2006-04-18, 04:50 PM
This must be said: "Heh-heh, tongues, heh."

That being out of the way, I'll move on to commenting

Honestly, I think it falls far outside the archetype of the succubus as portrayed in myth. Alsthough the position in Hell makes sense, I think that politics are rarely heavily populated by comely people. Name me one good-looking modern-day politician. How about an ancient one? Medieval? Yeah, I can see it working for a certain type of world. Myself, I don't much like it.

The_Werebear
2006-04-18, 05:01 PM
Well..

Hmm..

Bill Clinton, Robert Kenedy, and JFK are the only ones who I can think of who might be considered attractive.

Anyway, as for the rewrite, I like it. The Thrall thing is very neat, and I think the look on a player's face when they fail the Seventh save and the Succi decides to make it a demon would be priceless.

Steward
2006-04-18, 05:03 PM
This must be said: "Heh-heh, tongues, heh."

That being out of the way, I'll move on to commenting

Honestly, I think it falls far outside the archetype of the succubus as portrayed in myth. Alsthough the position in Hell makes sense, I think that politics are rarely heavily populated by comely people. Name me one good-looking modern-day politician. How about an ancient one? Medieval? Yeah, I can see it working for a certain type of world. Myself, I don't much like it.

That's because politicians need to be charismatic, not beautiful.

WildBill
2006-04-18, 09:21 PM
Alsthough the position in Hell makes sense, I think that politics are rarely heavily populated by comely people. Name me one good-looking modern-day politician. How about an ancient one? Medieval? Yeah, I can see it working for a certain type of world. Myself, I don't much like it.
Just because they are involved in politics doesn't mean they are nessacarily acting as politicians. They may be using their beauty to seduce and manipulate the politicians behind the scenes.

ray53208
2006-04-18, 11:29 PM
okay so your motivation is the escalating power creep of your players. i had a similar problem.

instead of a rewrite why not do a little creative breeding? once i mixed took a nymph and added the half fiend template to get an interesting evil seduction type villian. with class levels.

another plan i had was to send assassins with a permanent antimagic area effect cast on them. their weapons and armor are high quality admantine. the equipment is enchanted to detonate like a fusion bomb, but while alive the assassins repress this enchantment.

just an idea.

ray
8)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-04-19, 02:18 AM
As WildBill mentioned, they won't necessarily be acting as politicians. And these are not common, it is technically possible for you to live out your entire life in a noble/royal court and potentially never see one...

WereBear: I'll admit that I'm more than a little tempted to put somebody in that situation, but I'll let it see where it goes. I'm glad you like it. ;D

Saithis Bladewing
2006-04-21, 10:17 AM
Well, lowered Aura's DC to 20 (charisma-based), increased SR to 24 and DR to 8/adamantine.

I also still need a CR for her...