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Erts
2009-05-30, 04:35 PM
It just walked into my head.
Probably have been re-reading LOTR to much.

I thought first with Spiderman.
If Spidey is to hard, what superheroes could they win against?
Strange strange idea. Thread will probably be forgotten and die.

chiasaur11
2009-05-30, 05:06 PM
Spidey'd clobber the group minus Gandalf. I mean, excellent ranged weapons, combat precognition, reflexes that let him dodge bullets, and he can bench press a bus.

No way a few arrows would be a problem, even aside from his well above normal durability.

Innis Cabal
2009-05-30, 05:45 PM
I think any superhero would do in the party without Big G....and some could easily beat them with him in the party as well.

North
2009-05-30, 08:00 PM
Aquaman if he hasnt been in the water for several weeks...

ZeroNumerous
2009-05-30, 08:11 PM
I'd say Squirrel Girl. Because she's a hero, and heroes don't fight other heroes. :smallamused:

Calmness
2009-05-30, 08:24 PM
Spiderman? Not a chance. Just look at how well the Sinister Six/Twelve do against him. These guys are much, much stronger than the fellowship, and Spiderman still hands them their asses on a regular basis. They might have a chance against Daredevil or Batman but there's not much they can do against superhumans. I can see them doing well against say... Green Arrow or Moon Knight, and that's it

Xuincherguixe
2009-05-30, 08:24 PM
As crazy as it sounds... The Hulk!

Why? Because they'd be more likely to try and reason with him. Then he'd calm down. Though, not sure if the zen like approach of beating the hulk in a fight by not fighting him is something that counts.

In which case they could hack his head off when he wasn't looking.

They could probably take Robin.


(Really) Early X-Men might be doable. Though it's a bit of a close call that one. Beast would probably be the most trouble. And also only individually.

Trazoi
2009-05-30, 08:46 PM
Given the Fellowships prior adventure experience, they should square off against the Green Lantern.

averagejoe
2009-05-30, 08:51 PM
Given the Fellowships prior adventure experience, they should square off against the Green Lantern.

I think Legolas vs. the Green Lantern would be both more fair and more appropriate. There is, after all, only room for one beautiful blond archer dude. :smallwink:

Rutskarn
2009-05-30, 09:00 PM
I'm half-tempted to pull out my list of worthless superheroes again, but last time, someone batched me out for linking my blog, so I'll let it slide.

Anyway...any third-string Golden Age superhero NOT written by Fletcher "Stardust" Hanks.

Mando Knight
2009-05-30, 09:06 PM
I think Legolas vs. the Green Lantern would be both more fair and more appropriate. There is, after all, only room for one beautiful blond archer dude. :smallwink:

Green Arrow, not Green Lantern.

Green Arrow and Robin are probably the only ones that the Fellowship could beat, though. Batman's suit is probably arrow-proofed, and his gadgets can stop Gimli and Aragorn before they manage to close in on him.

Rutskarn
2009-05-30, 09:13 PM
Green Arrow and Robin are probably the only ones that the Fellowship could beat, though. Batman's suit is probably arrow-proofed, and his gadgets can stop Gimli and Aragorn before they manage to close in on him.

Not early Batman, probably. He'd go down like a punk to a bunch of burly guys with weapons.

He'd blow his superweapons on the first few, and then either get shot or hacked up by the others.

What am I saying--this is early DC comics. There is no fighting technique so implausible that Batman cannot implement it.

kpenguin
2009-05-30, 09:17 PM
Arm Fall Off Boy?
Cypher?
Mr. Immortal?

Erts
2009-05-30, 09:20 PM
As crazy as it sounds... The Hulk!

To calm down the Hulk, you have to survive trying to calm down The Hulk.

I think some Batman villians. (Joker, Zsasz, Two-Face.)
And some Watchmen guys. (Roscharch, the Silk Spectre, Ozymandis.)

If it was a close combat fight, the Punisher.

chiasaur11
2009-05-30, 09:31 PM
Arm Fall Off Boy?
Cypher?
Mr. Immortal?

Mr. Immortal would eventually win.

By forfeit, of course, but a win's a win.

Erts
2009-05-30, 09:45 PM
Mr. Immortal would eventually win.

By forfeit, of course, but a win's a win.

Well, continually chopping of limbs.
Mr. Immortal has a slow healing factor, right? I thought it wasn't really elaborated on how he does it.

Knaight
2009-05-30, 09:51 PM
Everybody in Mystery men, and almost everybody in Watchmen(Ozymandias and Dr. Manhattan are a bit beyond their league.)

Iron Man, in the event they managed to get him without his suit.

kpenguin
2009-05-30, 09:55 PM
Well, continually chopping of limbs.
Mr. Immortal has a slow healing factor, right? I thought it wasn't really elaborated on how he does it.

He's immortal. Case closed. Can't die. At all.

FoE
2009-05-30, 09:58 PM
Well, continually chopping of limbs.
Mr. Immortal has a slow healing factor, right? I thought it wasn't really elaborated on how he does it.

No matter how much damage you do to Mr. Immortal, he pops back. Even if they took turns murdering him and worked in shifts, he could just wait until they all dropped dead of old age.

BlueWizard
2009-05-31, 01:46 AM
Rocket-racer and the Vulture.

WitchSlayer
2009-05-31, 02:35 AM
No matter how much damage you do to Mr. Immortal, he pops back. Even if they took turns murdering him and worked in shifts, he could just wait until they all dropped dead of old age.

Mr. Immortal: He always wins... EVENTUALLY

That said, Shining Knight vs the Fellowship would be interesting. Etrigan would probably roast them. Kamandi would lose to them. Mr. Terrific would beat them. Mr. America would... I don't know, so far his only power is that to wield two whips, probably lose. I'm just going through the JSA now so I'll stop.

Cespenar
2009-05-31, 02:43 AM
Forget the Fellowship. The title should be, "Which Superheroes can beat Sam?", and we have to allow that the superheroes may attack in groups.

Haven
2009-05-31, 02:44 AM
No matter how much damage you do to Mr. Immortal, he pops back. Even if they took turns murdering him and worked in shifts, he could just wait until they all dropped dead of old age.

But technically LotR elves don't die of old age right? So they could just have Legolas spend the rest of time killing Mr. Immortal.

That's kind of like winning a fight.

Icewalker
2009-05-31, 02:44 AM
I like the idea of Iron man without his suit as a super hero. Namely, a rich young to middle-aged dude with shrapnel embedded in his chest.

Finn Solomon
2009-05-31, 02:49 AM
They could take on the superheroes whose schtick is fighting with medieval weapons. You know, guys like Swordsman, Silver Samurai, Black Knight, Crusader, Green Arrow, Hawkeye and so on.

chiasaur11
2009-05-31, 11:14 AM
I like the idea of Iron man without his suit as a super hero. Namely, a rich young to middle-aged dude with shrapnel embedded in his chest.

Who can turn cave scraps into super weapons.

5 minutes to combat mechs. At best.

Optimystik
2009-05-31, 11:20 AM
Everybody in Mystery men, and almost everybody in Watchmen(Ozymandias and Dr. Manhattan are a bit beyond their league.)

Sorry, Rorshach would beat the gently caress out of every single one of them, even Gimli.

As for the Mystery Men, Spleen alone could take them out with high precision targeted farts.

tribble
2009-05-31, 04:04 PM
blue beetle, I think...

chiasaur11
2009-05-31, 04:21 PM
blue beetle, I think...

Which one?

Kord is a low budget Stark with slightly better athletic training, so maybe.

Reyes, however, is an impeccably moral and upstanding young man...

who just happens to have an alien superweapon built to fight GREEN LANTERNS bonded to his nervous system. He can fight the new flippin gods. A handful of guys with medieval weapons? Bit of a nonissue.

Randel
2009-05-31, 04:50 PM
Super Grover (if they sneak up on him)

Captain Vegetable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmjLqddPqZQ)

The Question

Rorschach (it would be a tough fight)

Rogue (If she doesn't have any superpowers absorbed before fighting the Fellowship)

Captain Hammer

Green Bean
2009-05-31, 04:51 PM
But technically LotR elves don't die of old age right? So they could just have Legolas spend the rest of time killing Mr. Immortal.

That's kind of like winning a fight.

Elves don't die of old age. Mr. Immortal just doesn't die. Sure, you'd have to wait until the sun goes supernova, or the next Ice Age kills off all of the food, but Mr. Immortal still wins. Heck, with the timescale you're looking at, you'd need look at more the unlikely causes of death. Sure, the odds of every molecule in Legolas' body spontaneously turning to tapioca seem slim, but averaged over the lifetime of the universe, it's practically a sure thing.

Erts
2009-05-31, 04:54 PM
I think Cyclops is their top.
If one of them manages to kill him before he can mow them all down.

chiasaur11
2009-05-31, 05:04 PM
Super Grover (if they sneak up on him)

Captain Vegetable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmjLqddPqZQ)

The Question

Rorschach (it would be a tough fight)

Rogue (If she doesn't have any superpowers absorbed before fighting the Fellowship)

Captain Hammer

The Question has a gun and zen kung fu, Hammer is all but impervious to harm, and rogue has a couple of powers innately most of the time.

Not saying those guys'd win for sure, but it'd be a bunch of tough scraps.

And Cyclops can vaporize a 50 foot robot in one shot. Less than a dozen guys with no powers== puddle.

Erts
2009-05-31, 08:32 PM
Fine.


Most of the original X-men individually. As in, how they originally appered.

Angel only had wings. Nothing else.
Cyclops didn't have much, only a beam.
Ice man generally could only make ice around stuff.
Jean would kind of depends on scenario.

Beast is the one they couldn't take out.
(Remember, individually.)

It also depends on what media we are tallking about.
Book Fellowship were good heroes, above average.
Movie fellowship were elephant toppling, shield surfing, horse jumping, dwarf throwing badasses.

WitchSlayer
2009-05-31, 08:40 PM
Fine.


Most of the original X-men individually. As in, how they originally appered.

Angel only had wings. Nothing else.
Cyclops didn't have much, only a beam.
Ice man generally could only make ice around stuff.
Jean would kind of depends on scenario.

Beast is the one they couldn't take out.
(Remember, individually.)

It also depends on what media we are tallking about.
Book Fellowship were good heroes, above average.
Movie fellowship were elephant toppling, shield surfing, horse jumping, dwarf throwing badasses.

Cyclops would probably lay them out, actually, considering all he does is have to open his eyes and look at all of them.

Heck, he once took out 9 targets by using his prodigious knowledge of geometry by bouncing the optic blast off of one target to hit the 8 others.

Erts
2009-05-31, 08:43 PM
Cyclops would probably lay them out, actually, considering all he does is have to open his eyes and look at all of them.

Heck, he once took out 9 targets by using his prodigious knowledge of geometry by bouncing the optic blast off of one target to hit the 8 others.

Remember, individual original X-men.

In the begining, Cyclops wasn't that powerful. He was powerful, sure, but still.

Angel would die, Jean might die, Iceman might die, and Cyclops maybe.

They could take out original Batman, lots of people did.

And possibly original Iron Man, depending on if they are good enough shots to go in an eye.

WitchSlayer
2009-05-31, 09:31 PM
This was from the beginning.
Wolverine still had his brown outfit.

chiasaur11
2009-05-31, 09:51 PM
This was from the beginning.
Wolverine still had his brown outfit.

Earlier.

Before Wolverine had his really stupid whiskered mask even. In fact, before Wolverine at all. Blows your mind, don't it?

snoopy13a
2009-05-31, 09:54 PM
Elves don't die of old age. Mr. Immortal just doesn't die. Sure, you'd have to wait until the sun goes supernova, or the next Ice Age kills off all of the food, but Mr. Immortal still wins. Heck, with the timescale you're looking at, you'd need look at more the unlikely causes of death. Sure, the odds of every molecule in Legolas' body spontaneously turning to tapioca seem slim, but averaged over the lifetime of the universe, it's practically a sure thing.

Not in the Middle Earth cosmos. It is implied that at the end of the world the children of Iluvatar will join with the Ainur in song. So it'd be a stalemate.

Plus, even if you kill a Middle Earth elf, he or she will eventually return to life.

Honestly though, I think each of the four non-hobbit members of the Fellowship are the equivalent of your "unpowered" superheroes such as Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Robin, Green Arrow, etc. Additionally, the four hobbits and Legolas have superhuman stealth abilities. Overall, I think they could handle many heroes in a 8 on 1 fight.

averagejoe
2009-05-31, 10:22 PM
Green Arrow, not Green Lantern.

Yes, of course, forgive me.

Others:

That guy from X-Men whose power is to make copies of himself but is otherwise completely normal.

Captain America.

The wonder twins. (Though they might additionally need a sponge.)

This is all from someone who hasn't read superhero stuff in a long time. I would strongly suspect all of the above have gotten major power upgrades since I've known about them, because that seems the thing to do these days.

chiasaur11
2009-05-31, 10:54 PM
Yes, of course, forgive me.

Others:

That guy from X-Men whose power is to make copies of himself but is otherwise completely normal.

Captain America.

The wonder twins. (Though they might additionally need a sponge.)

This is all from someone who hasn't read superhero stuff in a long time. I would strongly suspect all of the above have gotten major power upgrades since I've known about them, because that seems the thing to do these days.

Maybe at best in all cases.

Madrox (the copy guy) is immune to all bludgeoning style attacks (they just make him dupe), has years of combat training, can form an army in instants, and can instantly recover from injury by duplicating himself.

Captain America makes a freaking living on armies skilled combatants saying "he's only one man!" followed by massive clobberings. Man clobbers armies that, on paper, should cream him.

WitchSlayer
2009-06-01, 02:45 AM
Yes, of course, forgive me.

Others:

That guy from X-Men whose power is to make copies of himself but is otherwise completely normal.

Captain America.

The wonder twins. (Though they might additionally need a sponge.)

This is all from someone who hasn't read superhero stuff in a long time. I would strongly suspect all of the above have gotten major power upgrades since I've known about them, because that seems the thing to do these days.

The Wonder Twins don't really show up in comics, but they did recently. They were both eaten by a demonic Wonder Dog
...
Yeah.

Xondoure
2009-06-01, 02:54 AM
The fellowship could own all of them. Aragorn just summons his army of undead. Done.

averagejoe
2009-06-01, 02:54 AM
The Wonder Twins don't really show up in comics, but they did recently. They were both eaten by a demonic Wonder Dog
...
Yeah.

That could be incredibly awesome or incredibly stupid.

In this light, one could say that the Wonder Twins being eaten by a demonic Wonder Dog is like a microcosm of superhero comics today.

Coidzor
2009-06-01, 06:47 AM
So that's... one dunedain (fairly numenorean if I recall correctly) human fighter, one dunedain/numenorean noble human ranger, one elven ranger, one dwarven fighter, two halfling rogues, a halfling commoner, and whatever Frodo was.

So in comparison with normal humans of our reference, the four most dangerous elements of the fellowship have superior strength and durability, at least to the point where they're stronger and more durable than the superheroes who didn't take super strength or super hardiness.

Barring some kind of atlantean technology crutch, they'd have a nice fish dinner after dispatching the crazy man in orange and green if they encountered Aquaman anywhere other than the open sea. Big deal, toddlers beat up Aquaman for some reason.

Wonder Woman has about a fifty percent chance of being effective and not having her lasso used against her. If she's effective, it'd take her a bit and it would be really annoying to have to deal with two swords, deflecting arrows, and an axe hacking at her kneecaps along with whatever shenanigans the hobbits come up with, but she'd be able to clobber them all except gimli in one or two good hits, probably about 4 for him due to his dwarven durabillity... Actually, the hobbits would probably be most useful here as they'd be the ones to stumble upon the fact that she carries her biggest weakness around with her in the form of that lasso rather than destroying it.

Superman is a **** and melts the one ring to make them cry about all the trouble they had to go through and how their sacrifices were now meaningless and then remakes it, bent to his will in time for them to gasp in horror before they die messily.

Batman knows all about them due to having actually read the books and decides to call it a night and finally seek psychiatric help now that he's hallucinating that characters from a fantasy book are coming into his reality. About fifty-fifty whether this will be before or after mopping the floor with them.

Captain Planet, by not actually being his usual opponents, so he wouldn't be able to clean up and save the day and so his gimmick would be completely pointless, though I guess he could just incinerate them all or something, being an omni-elemental... Though the odds are in favor of them killing Earth or Heart on sight due to the underlying racial tension of the world of LOTR, unless Fire decided to make an ass of himself and find out firsthand how dwarves feel about human kneecaps.

I think with their senses being improved they'd be able to take out the human torch with difficulty and the invisible woman fairly easily individually, but if any of the fantastic four came against them with backup from one or more of the rest of the team...

chiasaur11
2009-06-01, 12:41 PM
So that's... one dunedain (fairly numenorean if I recall correctly) human fighter, one dunedain/numenorean noble human ranger, one elven ranger, one dwarven fighter, two halfling rogues, a halfling commoner, and whatever Frodo was.

So in comparison with normal humans of our reference, the four most dangerous elements of the fellowship have superior strength and durability, at least to the point where they're stronger and more durable than the superheroes who didn't take super strength or super hardiness.

Barring some kind of atlantean technology crutch, they'd have a nice fish dinner after dispatching the crazy man in orange and green if they encountered Aquaman anywhere other than the open sea. Big deal, toddlers beat up Aquaman for some reason.

Wonder Woman has about a fifty percent chance of being effective and not having her lasso used against her. If she's effective, it'd take her a bit and it would be really annoying to have to deal with two swords, deflecting arrows, and an axe hacking at her kneecaps along with whatever shenanigans the hobbits come up with, but she'd be able to clobber them all except gimli in one or two good hits, probably about 4 for him due to his dwarven durabillity... Actually, the hobbits would probably be most useful here as they'd be the ones to stumble upon the fact that she carries her biggest weakness around with her in the form of that lasso rather than destroying it.

Superman is a **** and melts the one ring to make them cry about all the trouble they had to go through and how their sacrifices were now meaningless and then remakes it, bent to his will in time for them to gasp in horror before they die messily.

Batman knows all about them due to having actually read the books and decides to call it a night and finally seek psychiatric help now that he's hallucinating that characters from a fantasy book are coming into his reality. About fifty-fifty whether this will be before or after mopping the floor with them.

Captain Planet, by not actually being his usual opponents, so he wouldn't be able to clean up and save the day and so his gimmick would be completely pointless, though I guess he could just incinerate them all or something, being an omni-elemental... Though the odds are in favor of them killing Earth or Heart on sight due to the underlying racial tension of the world of LOTR, unless Fire decided to make an ass of himself and find out firsthand how dwarves feel about human kneecaps.

I think with their senses being improved they'd be able to take out the human torch with difficulty and the invisible woman fairly easily individually, but if any of the fantastic four came against them with backup from one or more of the rest of the team...

Wait. Sue "Invulnerable oxygen blocking force fields" Richards gets taken down by bows and arrows? The invisible part might be near useless, but mind powered battering rams and invulnerable shields tend to be ace clobbering material. Reed's usual array of tech and skill at improvisation and Ben's never say die attitude would both easily take this group down.

I'll give you Johnny, since he's a putz.

Also, Aquaman would have a good chance near water. Superhuman strength, speed, nigh invulnerability, armies of minions, and a mental whammy on the reptile brain of the mammals means a lot. The Wonder Woman scenario: What?

Superman level punching tends to one hit anybody. I mean, Spidey could get one punched from that bit, and he's way further in the superhuman than most.

KnightDisciple
2009-06-01, 01:03 PM
(Using spoiler tags to reduce "wall of text" syndrome somewhat.)


So that's... one dunedain (fairly numenorean if I recall correctly) human fighter, one dunedain/numenorean noble human ranger, one elven ranger, one dwarven fighter, two halfling rogues, a halfling commoner, and whatever Frodo was.

So in comparison with normal humans of our reference, the four most dangerous elements of the fellowship have superior strength and durability, at least to the point where they're stronger and more durable than the superheroes who didn't take super strength or super hardiness.
I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that the two Men of the Fellowship were more than maybe peak human physical abilities. Aragorn has a much longer than normal lifespan, but that doesn't translate into "superior strength to normal men." As for the dwarf, he's maybe a touch stronger than a man. Certainly tougher and better endurance, but not by a huge leap. Legolas is more agile for sure, and probably the only one starting to approach anything like "super soldier" levels (as in Captain America Super Soldier stuff).


Barring some kind of atlantean technology crutch, they'd have a nice fish dinner after dispatching the crazy man in orange and green if they encountered Aquaman anywhere other than the open sea. Big deal, toddlers beat up Aquaman for some reason.
Really, this is patently incorrect. Barring maybe the cheesy Superfriends stuff, Aquaman's always been at least decently powerful in a fight. He's stronger by a notable margin, tougher, and as chiasaur11 mentioned, has that mental whammy trick. This isn't counting things like hydrokinesis, cybernetic hand, and the like. Win for Aquaman, 50/50 chance. I figure if they all ganged up at once, he's probably not quite tough enough to just stand there and take it.


Wonder Woman has about a fifty percent chance of being effective and not having her lasso used against her. If she's effective, it'd take her a bit and it would be really annoying to have to deal with two swords, deflecting arrows, and an axe hacking at her kneecaps along with whatever shenanigans the hobbits come up with, but she'd be able to clobber them all except gimli in one or two good hits, probably about 4 for him due to his dwarven durabillity... Actually, the hobbits would probably be most useful here as they'd be the ones to stumble upon the fact that she carries her biggest weakness around with her in the form of that lasso rather than destroying it.
Uh....What? Wonder Woman can fight Superman on essentially even terms. The only weapon that might even scratch her is Anduril, and that's iffy in my book. If she wanted to, she could just punt them to Mordor.


Superman is a **** and melts the one ring to make them cry about all the trouble they had to go through and how their sacrifices were now meaningless and then remakes it, bent to his will in time for them to gasp in horror before they die messily.
...Did Superman steal your Cheerios last week or something? Seriously though, this is even more 1-sided than Wonder Woman.


Batman knows all about them due to having actually read the books and decides to call it a night and finally seek psychiatric help now that he's hallucinating that characters from a fantasy book are coming into his reality. About fifty-fifty whether this will be before or after mopping the floor with them.
...What?:smallconfused: Seriously, what now? I think we can rule out people thinking "oh, this is just a hallucination" or some such. The OP pretty much puts forth some sort of time-space portal. You are right about mopping the floor. Batman fights people armed with guns all the time. Arrows are slow-mo in comparison. Swords aren't a big deal either; he's fought Ra's al Ghul's minions plenty of times. Eight guys isn't that bad for him to take at once.


Captain Planet, by not actually being his usual opponents, so he wouldn't be able to clean up and save the day and so his gimmick would be completely pointless, though I guess he could just incinerate them all or something, being an omni-elemental... Though the odds are in favor of them killing Earth or Heart on sight due to the underlying racial tension of the world of LOTR, unless Fire decided to make an ass of himself and find out firsthand how dwarves feel about human kneecaps.
Um...yeah, this one goes to Captain Planet. His displayed abilities and durability vastly outstrip the Fellowship.


I think with their senses being improved they'd be able to take out the human torch with difficulty and the invisible woman fairly easily individually, but if any of the fantastic four came against them with backup from one or more of the rest of the team...
Like chiasaur11 said, Invisible Woman has force fields and TK. She wins. Mr. Fantastic is closer, but still likely a win. Thing isn't even a contest. Neither is Human Torch. You know, the guy who can fly, melt steel with fire blasts, pump his heat output to solar levels? That Human Torch? Yeah. Individually, the Fantastic Four should win. Together, it's not even approaching being a contest.

Erts
2009-06-01, 03:36 PM
[QUOTE=KnightDisciple;6197398](Using spoiler tags to reduce "wall of text" syndrome somewhat.)


I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that the two Men of the Fellowship were more than maybe peak human physical abilities. Aragorn has a much longer than normal lifespan, but that doesn't translate into "superior strength to normal men." As for the dwarf, he's maybe a touch stronger than a man. Certainly tougher and better endurance, but not by a huge leap. Legolas is more agile for sure, and probably the only one starting to approach anything like "super soldier" levels (as in Captain America Super Soldier stuff).

Media is very important. Book guys are above average, but movie guys are definetly better than anything humanly possible.


...What?:smallconfused: Seriously, what now? I think we can rule out people thinking "oh, this is just a hallucination" or some such. The OP pretty much puts forth some sort of time-space portal. You are right about mopping the floor. Batman fights people armed with guns all the time. Arrows are slow-mo in comparison. Swords aren't a big deal either; he's fought Ra's al Ghul's minions plenty of times. Eight guys isn't that bad for him to take at once.


I'm not sure. This would be the hardest fight, and they only might win.

If it was movie guys, I'm not sure...

KnightDisciple
2009-06-01, 03:48 PM
Media is very important. Book guys are above average, but movie guys are definetly better than anything humanly possible.
"Above average" by how much? And what average?
And even in the movie, Legolas is the only one shown to really exceed human ability. Everyone else is just someone with good genes and a lifetime of fitness and fight training/experience. Even the pansy elf boy isn't that far above human. He surfs a shield down: not really that crazy of a stunt. Excellent archery:combo of good vision and steady hands, along with high-quality equipment. Trunk-surfing:...Yeah, this one's just ridiculous, really.


I'm not sure. This would be the hardest fight, and they only might win.

If it was movie guys, I'm not sure...

Batman regularly faces opponents who are definitively above human capability. Bane, Charaxes, Killer Croc. Then there's ones like Firefly and Mr. Freeze, with notably advanced technology. And as I said, he fights punks with guns all the time. He wears body armor, for crying out loud!
Combine that with a man who possesses knowledge and skill in virtually every form of combat on earth...
Yeah, I'm thinking it's not so good for the Fellowship.

Verruckt
2009-06-01, 04:34 PM
To calm down the Hulk, you have to survive trying to calm down The Hulk.

I think some Batman villians. (Joker, Zsasz, Two-Face.)
And some Watchmen guys. (Roscharch, the Silk Spectre, Ozymandis.)

If it was a close combat fight, the Punisher.

Hmm... yeah, Frank would have a tough time against the party in melee. At any range greater than 5 feet on the other hand... it'd go something like this (http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951ecafa5d011ecbd5fe8d00b5).

Actually less of a question of what superheroes could they beat and more of "Are these guys really better than any other group of medieval warriors?" Archery is very impressive but I think a single United States Marine could drop this group at any range outside right up in the grill. They're excellent swordsman chiefly, so anyone with half a brain engages them outside their reach. And good luck with the Hulk, especially if they mistake him for a Green Troll...

darkblade
2009-06-01, 04:40 PM
Hmm... yeah, Frank would have a tough time against the party in melee. At any range greater than 5 feet on the other hand... it'd go something like this (http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951ecafa5d011ecbd5fe8d00b5).

For those of us who aren't American what does "this" look like?

Verruckt
2009-06-01, 05:12 PM
For those of us who aren't American what does "this" look like?

Ah, apologies, "this" looks like a robot chicken sketch depicting a world class sniper killing the entirety of the G.I. Joes and their pets from a mile away. His name is Fumbles.

Erts
2009-06-01, 05:15 PM
"Above average" by how much? And what average?
And even in the movie, Legolas is the only one shown to really exceed human ability. Everyone else is just someone with good genes and a lifetime of fitness and fight training/experience. Even the pansy elf boy isn't that far above human. He surfs a shield down: not really that crazy of a stunt. Excellent archery:combo of good vision and steady hands, along with high-quality equipment. Trunk-surfing:...Yeah, this one's just ridiculous, really.



Batman regularly faces opponents who are definitively above human capability. Bane, Charaxes, Killer Croc. Then there's ones like Firefly and Mr. Freeze, with notably advanced technology. And as I said, he fights punks with guns all the time. He wears body armor, for crying out loud!
Combine that with a man who possesses knowledge and skill in virtually every form of combat on earth...
Yeah, I'm thinking it's not so good for the Fellowship.

Also, Legolas jumps onto a moving horse, and lands in perfect riding position.

The fellowship fights more than 50 orcs by themselves, and Boromir's last stand was above what is human.

Batman still would win.

@Verruckt: Hilarious video, and very very true. Which is why I said close combat. Hell, any sniper would work, depending on how good is his.

I assumed it was in New York for some reason. Not a desert. Irrelevant.

WitchSlayer
2009-06-01, 07:07 PM
Let me guess, Coidzor, your knowledge of most Superheroes is limited to the Silver Age?

DarthArminius
2009-06-01, 10:57 PM
If Buffy/Friends are o.k for "Superheroes" maybe them.

chiasaur11
2009-06-01, 11:02 PM
If Buffy/Friends are o.k for "Superheroes" maybe them.

Well, the Buffster would probably handle the problem. Swordfights and arrows are her standard motif, and rapid healing and insane speed help a lot here. Vamps, on the other hand, would probably lose. One clean shot and it's over.

Coidzor
2009-06-02, 04:51 AM
Let me guess, Coidzor, your knowledge of most Superheroes is limited to the Silver Age?

It's limited to whatever I can pick up without having to dedicate a steady and significant flow of time and money to it, yes.

And notice, I said, that they're stronger than any of the heroes who did not take the standard bundle of goodies that go with super strength. Which is increasingly rare, of course, due to the arms race, but, there you go.

KnightDisciple
2009-06-02, 08:53 AM
I'm doubting that they are.

Why? Well, Batman (you know, guy with no enhancements at all) recent bench-pressed his way out of a coffin.
That was already buried.
He said something about "bench pressing 600 pounds of dirt".

So, unless we've got some sort of solid evidence of out and out physical strength on the part of the Fellowship...I'm still going to say they're not really any stronger than the "badass normal" superheroes.

Coidzor
2009-06-02, 09:32 AM
Well, I'm doubting Batman counts as a badass normal due to the fact that he's The Goddamned Batman. The man created his own alignment. And was on again off again pallies with the biggest **** of all time. (http://superdickery.com/)

So there you go.
From my reading of the silmarillion, I have come away with the belief that elves and dwarves are, simply put, better than humans in many ways. Sure, Legolas is only a dark elf and not blessed by the light of the trees like the noldor were, but he's still stronger, hardier, faster, and with better senses than a human will be getting within mortal means. What the high elves are to the dark elves is what the dark elves are to the humans.

Gimli, while having his loadout adjusted away from the faster and senses and more towards the stronger and hardier has the same sort of thing going for him, being made to be last by the craftsgod himself.

Boromir, as far as I can recall, being the son of the steward in a long line of stewards still has enough dunedain to simply be better than normal humans.

Aragorn is the King, he has divine right and all that malarkey going for him where nobility means one is simply better in addition to having the strongest numenorean bloodline still in existence.

The hobbits, while not quite having the wee folk ability to not be noticed and avoid bigjobs that was expressed in The Hobbit due to the way things got mashed around in making The Hobbit's world into the LOTR world by combining it with Arda, still have power of the plot ability to be brushed aside or ignored as not worthy of attention.

And that's pretty much it, the only truly super supers they could take on they could only take on due to the super not taking them seriously. So it becomes which ****ty ones could they take out on an even playing field, due to the fact that the fellowship's superhuman abilities don't give them access to the ability to phase out of tangible and perceivable reality, move up to someone, and then phase in a fingernail in someone's heart or brain. Or possibly even just which ones would the fellowship present a challenge for, since of course superman can win. Superman is boring.

And a ****.

Telonius
2009-06-02, 09:58 AM
I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that the two Men of the Fellowship were more than maybe peak human physical abilities. Aragorn has a much longer than normal lifespan, but that doesn't translate into "superior strength to normal men." As for the dwarf, he's maybe a touch stronger than a man. Certainly tougher and better endurance, but not by a huge leap. Legolas is more agile for sure, and probably the only one starting to approach anything like "super soldier" levels (as in Captain America Super Soldier stuff).

This only applies to Aragorn, but ... a smidgen of divine ancestry, way back. Melian of the Maiar - Luthien - Dior - Elwing - Elros (Elrond's brother) - Vardamir - Kings of Numenor - Lords of Andunie - Numendil - Amandil - Elendil - Isildur - Valandil - Kings of Arnor - Kings of Arthedain - Chieftains of the Dunedain - Arathorn ll - Aragorn ll Elessar

KnightDisciple
2009-06-02, 10:23 AM
This only applies to Aragorn, but ... a smidgen of divine ancestry, way back. Melian of the Maiar - Luthien - Dior - Elwing - Elros (Elrond's brother) - Vardamir - Kings of Numenor - Lords of Andunie - Numendil - Amandil - Elendil - Isildur - Valandil - Kings of Arnor - Kings of Arthedain - Chieftains of the Dunedain - Arathorn ll - Aragorn ll Elessar

...And?
I'm talking about explicitly portrayed superhuman ability.
Boromir's death is more just a product of a man in excellent fighting shape, with a solid boost of adrenaline. You'll note he still dies; the wounds were simply such that they didn't instantly kill him. He was in obvious pain the whole time.

Telonius
2009-06-02, 10:53 AM
Running basically nonstop for three days straight seems fairly superhuman (well, maybe except for this guy (http://www-cdn.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4566124)) to me.

He's also able to overcome the Nazgul's Black Breath, able to Heal with athelas (which only the King can do), and is able to master the Palantir (which apparently only Dunedain and Wizards can do).

KnightDisciple
2009-06-02, 11:23 AM
Running basically nonstop for three days straight seems fairly superhuman (well, maybe except for this guy (http://www-cdn.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4566124)) to me.
The link proves it's not truly superhuman. I never said they weren't at peak endurance and such.


He's also able to overcome the Nazgul's Black Breath,
Presumably you mean "don't get scared" which is a force of will thing.


able to Heal with athelas (which only the King can do),
I believe this was actually a lost healing art, but it doesn't prove he can beat someone up at all.


and is able to master the Palantir (which apparently only Dunedain and Wizards can do).
Force of will + faint traces of Maiar in their blood.

So he's got great endurance, incredible strength of will, and lost knowledge of healing.

Impressive, but not much help against most superheroes.

Erts
2009-06-02, 11:34 AM
The link proves it's not truly superhuman. I never said they weren't at peak endurance and such.


And also doing it in heavy armor, and carrying a sword.

In the movies, they take on odds like 1 to 10.

I think we also forget the ring, and invisibility.

Oh, and the skateboarding down a stairway, shooting arrows, kick-flipping it into a orcs neck and shooting another arrow under Legolas.

KnightDisciple
2009-06-02, 11:45 AM
And also doing it in heavy armor, and carrying a sword.
So they've got slightly superhuman stamina, so far as long-distance running goes. Doesn't help them in a fight per se.


In the movies, they take on odds like 1 to 10.
Against random foot soldiers. Aragorn is like 88, Legolas is hundreds of years old, and even Gimli has decades of experience.
I never denied they were experienced, skilled fighters.


I think we also forget the ring, and invisibility.
Which only provides invisibility. No intangibility or inaudibility.


Oh, and the skateboarding down a stairway, shooting arrows, kick-flipping it into a orcs neck and shooting another arrow under Legolas.
Which is admittedly impressive, but Legolas is the only one to pull it off. And it's frankly silly. And also part of being an elf; incredible agility and lightness on their feet and all that.

My point isn't that there's not a single superhero out there they can't beat.
Just that it's going to be a small list.

Devonix
2009-06-02, 04:19 PM
seriously whoever said they could take Aquaman is messed up.

High Level Telepath
Strong enogh to lift a city block buildings and all
Invulnerability
Water Manipulation.


Come on people Aquaman could solo the LOTR group in his sleep. and still not have to leave his fabu palace

Prime32
2009-06-02, 04:29 PM
seriously whoever said they could take Aquaman is messed up.

High Level Telepath
Strong enogh to lift a city block buildings and all
Invulnerability
Water Manipulation.


Come on people Aquaman could solo the LOTR group in his sleep. and still not have to leave his fabu palaceSometimes. Sometimes his powers are limited to "swim fast, talk to fish" and he is otherwise a normal person.

kpenguin
2009-06-02, 04:40 PM
Sometimes. Sometimes his powers are limited to "swim fast, talk to fish" and he is otherwise a normal person.

Name one interpretation that has that other than parody. Even the Superfriends Aquaman had superstrength enough to lift a submarine and endurance enough to withstand deep sea pressure.

Prime32
2009-06-02, 04:55 PM
Name one interpretation that has that other than parody. Even the Superfriends Aquaman had superstrength enough to lift a submarine and endurance enough to withstand deep sea pressure.
Does he retain those out of the water though?

Devonix
2009-06-02, 05:18 PM
Does he retain those out of the water though?

Yes Yes a hundred times yes. Hell the guy once ripped off one of Cerberus' heads and used it to beat down the Gates of Hades!

Prime32
2009-06-02, 05:37 PM
Yes Yes a hundred times yes. Hell the guy once ripped off one of Cerberus' heads and used it to beat down the Gates of Hades!In Superfriends? :smallconfused:

Devonix
2009-06-02, 05:52 PM
In Superfriends? :smallconfused:

:smallbiggrin:Yes of course in superfriends. It couldn't have happened in comics could it?:smallannoyed:

Mikeavelli
2009-06-02, 06:41 PM
All of you are selling Aquaman short. I'm sure you haven't forgotten:

http://i44.tinypic.com/oshgfp.jpg

As for who the fellowship could take out, Superman.

Seriously.

Superman has a history of getting owned pretty hard by magic. It's like his Kryptonite.

Aragorn's sword is Magic. So are the daggers the hobbits got out of the barrow-wight mound. You do the math.

Also, if Gandalf came knocking, that fight would be over.

pseudodragon
2009-06-02, 06:53 PM
(Really) Early X-Men might be doable. Though it's a bit of a close call that one. Beast would probably be the most trouble. And also only individually.

excuse me, but wouldn't wolverine be more of a problem ( i mean, put a couple of arrows in him and he is down, not so with healing wolveriene).

i have a template for mutants. try THAT against the order.

kpenguin
2009-06-02, 08:58 PM
excuse me, but wouldn't wolverine be more of a problem ( i mean, put a couple of arrows in him and he is down, not so with healing wolveriene).

i have a template for mutants. try THAT against the order.

Wolverine isn't early X-Men.

WitchSlayer
2009-06-02, 09:54 PM
All of you are selling Aquaman short. I'm sure you haven't forgotten:

http://i44.tinypic.com/oshgfp.jpg

As for who the fellowship could take out, Superman.

Seriously.

Superman has a history of getting owned pretty hard by magic. It's like his Kryptonite.

Aragorn's sword is Magic. So are the daggers the hobbits got out of the barrow-wight mound. You do the math.

Also, if Gandalf came knocking, that fight would be over.

Well, that's depending on the factors. If Superman didn't have a strong moral foundation and just the powers, he would probably just lobotomize them with his heat vision and be on his way. If he went for disabling, which is more likely, it's still dependent on the writer on how magic effects him. Sometimes it's magic just effects him as it does a normal human, at other times it's if you have a sword that's enchanted to glow, it can pierce his skin. But really, it's dependent on the writer.

Oh, and in Superfriends and the Silver Age, Aquaman had super strength along with his psychic powers, he just couldn't be out of contact with water for more than an hour at a time.

KnightDisciple
2009-06-02, 09:55 PM
Not to mention that he's still super-fast and capable of flight.

chiasaur11
2009-06-02, 10:09 PM
Not to mention that he's still super-fast and capable of flight.

And Superbreath.

Could freeze the Fellowship without injuring them.

The Glyphstone
2009-06-02, 10:11 PM
Don't forget Super-Weaving! He could sew the Fellowship's clothes together so they couldn't move!

chiasaur11
2009-06-02, 10:15 PM
Don't forget Super-Weaving! He could sew the Fellowship's clothes together so they couldn't move!

Or he could shoot a tiny superman out of his hands to thwart them.

RMS Oceanic
2009-06-03, 02:51 AM
They could handily defeat Hour Man!

If his Hour ran out, that is...

Finn Solomon
2009-06-03, 09:58 AM
They could beat Nighthawk. Because as the immortal Mightygodking and his Civil War parody has shown us, Nighthawk is the single most pathetic hero in existence.

sealemon
2009-06-04, 12:11 AM
I am sooo glad to see there are other people who recognize that Aquaman is, in fact, far from worthless. Yes, he could smack the fellowship around pretty much by himself (in addition to everthing else mentioned about him, he has plenty of experience with fighting hand to hand, and has no problem with guerrela tactics).

As far as non-parody superheros the fellowship could spank? Ummm...Cypher? Maybe young Robin? There are other capes that they MIGHT be able to beat, but honestly most capes are more than capable of handling a few medevil fighters.

WitchSlayer
2009-06-04, 02:03 AM
Now now, you two, Super-weaving and tiny Supermen aren't canon. Even though both made a cameo in All-Star Superman. That said: I'd say most Marvel heroes would probably tear the fellowship a new one, as a lot of their street levelers also have some power. But they could probably take people like The Spirit, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Depowered Black Canary, Wildcat, and Dr. Mid-Nite.

GoC
2009-06-04, 12:47 PM
Honestly though, I think each of the four non-hobbit members of the Fellowship are the equivalent of your "unpowered" superheroes such as Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Robin, Green Arrow, etc. Additionally, the four hobbits and Legolas have superhuman stealth abilities. Overall, I think they could handle many heroes in a 8 on 1 fight.
They are equivalent in skill and physical condition but their equipment is inferior. That said I'd give them excellent odds of taking out Green Arrow or Robin.

Haarkla
2009-06-04, 01:47 PM
I recon the Fellowship sans Gandalf versus Batman would be pretty situational.

If there was lots of cover and shadows for Batman to strike from, he could take out the Fellowship pretty easily. While in a confined bare arena the Fellowship would triumph.

Tallis
2009-06-04, 02:59 PM
This was from the beginning.
Wolverine still had his brown outfit.
Wolverine's original costume was yellow, not brown.

Mystic Muse
2009-06-04, 06:44 PM
they could beat Po:smallbiggrin:

on a more serious note I think they could take most of the badguys in batman and several spiderman guys. I'd say Xmen but unfortunately most of the badguys in that are mutants and no the easy to beat kind either. it'd have to be the early xmen people talk about.

Grod_The_Giant
2009-06-04, 07:09 PM
Aquaman isn't even a question. He's got fairly high-level super-strength (more then enough to decapitate a normal human with one punch), very tough skin (not bulletproof, but a hell of a lot tougher then a normal human), and telepathy which CAN affect humans if he wants it too. Plus, he's a lot more willing to kill than most heroes, and I believe he's trained in ancient weapons.

People like Hawkman and Green Arrow...they might go down, but not easily, and then only through numbers (at least judging by current standards). Hawkman is stronger and heals faster than normal, and has hundreds of years of fighting experience at his hands. Green Arrow is as good as (or better than) anyone in a fantasy world with a bow, and he recently trained with the guy who trained DEATHSTROKE, so he's pretty damn good with a sword as well. I also saw somewhere that the younger Arrow is one of the DCU's greatest martial artists.

BlueWizard
2009-06-04, 07:21 PM
Mr. Fantastic.

raitalin
2009-06-04, 07:36 PM
Mr. Fantastic.

Not a chance, not only is he a supra-ultra-mega genius that could probably field craft an anti-hobbit laser, his elasticity makes him effectively invulnerable. Bullets/arrows bounce off of him, punches bounce or just stretch him, swords have not effect.

Seriously, the dude's been beaten on by the best and lived. Burning him or zapping him's pretty much your only option and the Fellowship doesn't have practical means for either of those.

BlueWizard
2009-06-04, 07:41 PM
Mr. Fantastic is totally weak, and he's been beaten a lot. He's not immune to being cut, unless they've changed him since I read.

chiasaur11
2009-06-04, 08:01 PM
Mr. Fantastic is totally weak, and he's been beaten a lot. He's not immune to being cut, unless they've changed him since I read.

Bull.

Have you read the Simonson run on Fantastic Four?

Richards is the only man Victor Von Doom fears. He's decent enough in a fight unarmed (He one punched Blastarr in the original Lee Kirby run!) but more importantly, give him any equipment, and here I include his own belt buckle, and he can work out a decent set of combat weaponry. He can figure out complicated time travel logic to the point that before he gets access to a time machine he figures out exacly how he would/had blown up Doom's custom built anti Richards prison. Factor in the fact that yes, he can catch and deflect arrows back to sender, punch someone from fifty feet away, is a good deal more resistant to stabbing than almost anyone else...

He'd steamroll the lot of them.

pseudodragon
2010-08-07, 09:17 PM
Wolverine isn't early X-Men.

oh. well, he should be, and he is the oldest character.

Yulian
2010-08-08, 06:33 PM
That could be incredibly awesome or incredibly stupid.

In this light, one could say that the Wonder Twins being eaten by a demonic Wonder Dog is like a microcosm of superhero comics today.

Wasn't that Wendy and Marvin?

They were mauled by a demon Wonder Dog.

Wendy's crippled and Marvin's dead. Their dad is the Calculator and kidnapped Kid Eternity to keep him summoning Marvin's soul.

- Yulian

Roland St. Jude
2010-08-09, 12:30 AM
Sheriff: Thread Necromancy is a please don't around here.