Arastor
2009-06-01, 11:22 AM
Yeah, so a few days into DMing, and I've suddenly found myself ruling this way and that, especially for a 2-weapon rogue party member. Who is practically feat starved, skill starved, and seemingly outclassed the classic Sorc, Cleric, and a ranged Swift Hunter build. So, what started as simple skill changes became massive feat restructurings that tailor mostly to the non-magical half of the party.
Since most of these were thought up in the shower and I have a weak eye on balance, I thought I'd get a broader opinion on a few feats I've...tweaked.
First is 2 weapon fighting:
Two-Weapon Fighting [General]
You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon.
Prerequisites: Dex 15
Benefits: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6.
In addition, as a standard action, you can make a melee attack with your primary weapon and your off-hand weapon. Both attacks use the same attack roll to determine success. If you are using a one-handed or light weapon in your primary hand and a light weapon in your off hand, you take a -4 penalty on your offhand weapon’s attack modifier; otherwise you take a -10 penalty. Each weapon deals its normal damage.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.) You can only make a single attack with your primary weapon as a standard action.
Special: A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
When using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat as a standard action, you only apply your precision damage once.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: This started the whole series. It's a strange fusion of dual strike (funny feat) and the original 2-weapon fighting. After a few encounters where the rogue did dagger damage to people who weren't flanked. I'm considering swapping the benefits of this and Improved, at least in terms of the dual striking. The comparison was with manyshot, and greater manyshot, which provided in two feats what two weapon spent a lot more for.
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting [General]
You are an expert in fighting two handed.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB +6
Benefits: You can make as many attacks with your off-hand weapon as with your primary weapon, using the same base attack bonus. You still take the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons. When using Two-Weapon Fighting as a standard action, reduce the penalty on you offhand weapon’s attack modifier to -2 if you are using a one-handed or light weapon in your primary hand and a light weapon in your offhand; otherwise, you take a -6 penalty.
Normal: Without this feat, you can only get a single extra attack with an off-hand weapon.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You may now use Two-Weapon Fighting in place of an Attack of Opportunity.
A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
Notes: This is where is started to get sketchy. This combines a lot more feats than 2wf, but I'm still thinking on the AoO part, which may or may not be kept depending on playtest. It shouldn't add much, and the offhand now has a better chance of hitting.
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting [General]
You are a master at fighting two-handed.
Prerequisites: Dex 19, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB +11
Benefits: When using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat as a standard action, make separate attack rolls for your primary and offhand weapon. You apply precision based damage to both attacks.
Normal: You use a single attack roll for both attacks. You apply precision based damage only once.
Special: A fighter may select Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You may now use Two-Weapon Fighting in place of a melee attack in a charge.
Notes: Again, the sketchy got sketchier, this would let a rogue or worse do two sneak attacks per round as a standard action, but by the time medium bab sneak attackers could get this, casters can do some funky things with their spells. Seems all right for me, just want to run it across people. Charging, like AoO, is something I'm considering. By this point, 2-weapon pounce is barely stronger than the improved version of two weapon fighting.
Then, the Spring Attack tree, which wasn't changed much, but some things needed a lot of changing.
Dodge [General]
You are adept at dodging blows.
Prerequisites: Dex 13.
Benefits: During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.
In addition, every time you successfully dodge or negate (only by using Tumble) an attack of opportunity, you gain a cumulative +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class until the end of the round. You may only receive at most a +1 cumulative dodge bonus to Armor Class for every 10ft of movement you make.
A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses.
Special: A fighter may select Dodge as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: It's not much for a feat that was given so many replacements because it sucked. I was hoping to just swap this with one of those, but I had an idea stolen from..somewhere. a stance I think. This should, with some suicidal moving, get normal humans at most 3 dodge bonus to ac. While charging would give double this, I'd say it's pretty hard to position yourself so you pass through a lot of threatened squares. You'd negate the bonus of charge if you pull it off, but then again, expeditious does that as well.
Spring Attack [General]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, BAB + 4
Benefits: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.
You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
Special: A fighter may select Spring Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You may not use the Spring Attack feat in conjunction with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat ability.
Notes: No mobility. Seriously. While it might fit in with Spring Attack, I'd put it as a side benefit of this, or Dodge. Or half and half. Everything else stays the same, and a 6th level entry is the same as before, people just have a free feat to work with. And since the new Greater 2wf and Bounding Assault would just create strange stuff involving precision damage which I'd rather not work with. Mobility is similarly removed in any requirement, to be replaced by a BAB +4 requirement, which would keep levelling and stuff.
Bounding Assault would remain the same, aside from a BAB +11 requirement that wouldn't mean much.
Anyway, this concludes the current feat trees I've thought up. While the hunter agreed to these changes (entirely for the rogue), I want to run this by a more experienced audience. Plus, now I have to fix up the ranged tree (hmm, point blank and precise shot?) and a shot on the run version of bounding assault. And while I'm at it, a mounted, flying, swimming, etc
As an ending note, Open Locks and Disable Device seem too much alike to be two separate skills. And I'm working on mixing craft, appraise and profession into one twisted mass. And the craft trees, and the skill focus and stealthy feat groups. Oh, and fusing low levels of Blade magic to the nonmagical/psionic/insert magic system here classes to give them some options. Whew. how's that for a first post?
As a finale, and a redux of the opening, I'm asking for an experienced and critical eye in terms of balance, since this restructure fell in place faster than I expected.
Since most of these were thought up in the shower and I have a weak eye on balance, I thought I'd get a broader opinion on a few feats I've...tweaked.
First is 2 weapon fighting:
Two-Weapon Fighting [General]
You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon.
Prerequisites: Dex 15
Benefits: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6.
In addition, as a standard action, you can make a melee attack with your primary weapon and your off-hand weapon. Both attacks use the same attack roll to determine success. If you are using a one-handed or light weapon in your primary hand and a light weapon in your off hand, you take a -4 penalty on your offhand weapon’s attack modifier; otherwise you take a -10 penalty. Each weapon deals its normal damage.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.) You can only make a single attack with your primary weapon as a standard action.
Special: A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
When using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat as a standard action, you only apply your precision damage once.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: This started the whole series. It's a strange fusion of dual strike (funny feat) and the original 2-weapon fighting. After a few encounters where the rogue did dagger damage to people who weren't flanked. I'm considering swapping the benefits of this and Improved, at least in terms of the dual striking. The comparison was with manyshot, and greater manyshot, which provided in two feats what two weapon spent a lot more for.
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting [General]
You are an expert in fighting two handed.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB +6
Benefits: You can make as many attacks with your off-hand weapon as with your primary weapon, using the same base attack bonus. You still take the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons. When using Two-Weapon Fighting as a standard action, reduce the penalty on you offhand weapon’s attack modifier to -2 if you are using a one-handed or light weapon in your primary hand and a light weapon in your offhand; otherwise, you take a -6 penalty.
Normal: Without this feat, you can only get a single extra attack with an off-hand weapon.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You may now use Two-Weapon Fighting in place of an Attack of Opportunity.
A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
Notes: This is where is started to get sketchy. This combines a lot more feats than 2wf, but I'm still thinking on the AoO part, which may or may not be kept depending on playtest. It shouldn't add much, and the offhand now has a better chance of hitting.
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting [General]
You are a master at fighting two-handed.
Prerequisites: Dex 19, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB +11
Benefits: When using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat as a standard action, make separate attack rolls for your primary and offhand weapon. You apply precision based damage to both attacks.
Normal: You use a single attack roll for both attacks. You apply precision based damage only once.
Special: A fighter may select Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You may now use Two-Weapon Fighting in place of a melee attack in a charge.
Notes: Again, the sketchy got sketchier, this would let a rogue or worse do two sneak attacks per round as a standard action, but by the time medium bab sneak attackers could get this, casters can do some funky things with their spells. Seems all right for me, just want to run it across people. Charging, like AoO, is something I'm considering. By this point, 2-weapon pounce is barely stronger than the improved version of two weapon fighting.
Then, the Spring Attack tree, which wasn't changed much, but some things needed a lot of changing.
Dodge [General]
You are adept at dodging blows.
Prerequisites: Dex 13.
Benefits: During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.
In addition, every time you successfully dodge or negate (only by using Tumble) an attack of opportunity, you gain a cumulative +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class until the end of the round. You may only receive at most a +1 cumulative dodge bonus to Armor Class for every 10ft of movement you make.
A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses.
Special: A fighter may select Dodge as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: It's not much for a feat that was given so many replacements because it sucked. I was hoping to just swap this with one of those, but I had an idea stolen from..somewhere. a stance I think. This should, with some suicidal moving, get normal humans at most 3 dodge bonus to ac. While charging would give double this, I'd say it's pretty hard to position yourself so you pass through a lot of threatened squares. You'd negate the bonus of charge if you pull it off, but then again, expeditious does that as well.
Spring Attack [General]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, BAB + 4
Benefits: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.
You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
Special: A fighter may select Spring Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You may not use the Spring Attack feat in conjunction with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat ability.
Notes: No mobility. Seriously. While it might fit in with Spring Attack, I'd put it as a side benefit of this, or Dodge. Or half and half. Everything else stays the same, and a 6th level entry is the same as before, people just have a free feat to work with. And since the new Greater 2wf and Bounding Assault would just create strange stuff involving precision damage which I'd rather not work with. Mobility is similarly removed in any requirement, to be replaced by a BAB +4 requirement, which would keep levelling and stuff.
Bounding Assault would remain the same, aside from a BAB +11 requirement that wouldn't mean much.
Anyway, this concludes the current feat trees I've thought up. While the hunter agreed to these changes (entirely for the rogue), I want to run this by a more experienced audience. Plus, now I have to fix up the ranged tree (hmm, point blank and precise shot?) and a shot on the run version of bounding assault. And while I'm at it, a mounted, flying, swimming, etc
As an ending note, Open Locks and Disable Device seem too much alike to be two separate skills. And I'm working on mixing craft, appraise and profession into one twisted mass. And the craft trees, and the skill focus and stealthy feat groups. Oh, and fusing low levels of Blade magic to the nonmagical/psionic/insert magic system here classes to give them some options. Whew. how's that for a first post?
As a finale, and a redux of the opening, I'm asking for an experienced and critical eye in terms of balance, since this restructure fell in place faster than I expected.