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JeenLeen
2009-06-02, 09:23 AM
I'm creating a wizard using the alternative class feature from Complete Champion that lets you convert any spell you have prepared into a divination spell you know. Any recommendations?

I have Hindsight, Moment of Prescience, True Strike, and some Scrys already.
Also, could a Persist Metamagic True Strike work?

Claudius Maximus
2009-06-02, 09:40 AM
True strike only affects your next attack roll, so no on persisted true strike.

jcsw
2009-06-02, 09:41 AM
No.


Persistent Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisite

Extend Spell.
Benefit

A persistent spell has a duration of 24 hours. The persistent spell must have a personal range or a fixed range. Spells of instantaneous duration cannot be affected by this feat, nor can spells whose effects are discharged. You need not concentrate on spells such as detect magic or detect thoughts to be aware of the mere presence of absence of the things detected, but you must still concentrate to gain additional information as normal. Concentration on such a spell is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A persistent spell uses up a spell slot six levels higher than the spellís actual level.

EDIT: GAH, I NEED A DETECT NINJA SPELL.

---

Alter Fortune, PHBII.
Assay Spell Resistance, SpC
Unluck, SpC

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-02, 09:51 AM
I'm creating a wizard using the alternative class feature from Complete Champion that lets you convert any spell you have prepared into a divination spell you know. Any recommendations?

I have Hindsight, Moment of Prescience, True Strike, and some Scrys already.

Looking through the Spell Compendium for spells I've used or have wanted to use:

Level 2:
I love Chain of Eyes. Keep an eye on the rest of the group if you ever split or see through the eyes of a captured enemy who doesn't know you let him get away.
I've never used Discern Shapeshifter, but it doesn't look like it would hurt to have.

Level 3:
Circle Dance is a no-save spell giving you the basic direction of another creature. Handy.
Lesser Telepathic Bond has a decent duration if you have a good idea when there will be trouble (a dungeon dive, etc).
Unluck is the only Divination save-or-suck I know of. It's only single-target, but it's something.

Level 4:
Assay Spell Resistance is something you'll want frequently.
Know Vulnerabilities is good to have if your Knowledge skills just aren't cutting it.

Level 6:
Probe thoughts is fun. A much more intensive Detect Thoughts sort of thing.

Complete Scoundrel has both Spymaster's Coin and Scry Location. They are both choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend them.

And the Player's Handbook has Prying Eyes and the Greater version -- very likely my favorite spells. And Foresight, which means not being taken by surprise. Which is a good thing.


Also, could a Persist Metamagic True Strike work?Sure, but it'll still discharge at first use.
Bah. Shows me to post before checking the sources.

Optimystik
2009-06-02, 09:58 AM
Try these:


Foresight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foresight.htm)
Assay Spell Resistance (SpC): +10 to CL checks to overcome SR. No save
Eye of Power (SpC): Like Arcane Eye (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneeye.htm), but you can cast spells through it up to 3rd level.
Guided Shot (SpC): Ignore range penalties and partial cover (use with rays)
Telepathic Bond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/TelepathicBond.htm)
Interplanar Telepathic Bond (SpC): Works across planes.
Probe Thoughts (SpC): Have access to all of a subject's memories, and ask questions telepathically.
Targeting Ray (SpC): You and all your allies get scaling bonuses to hit an enemy with ranged attacks.
Unluck (SpC): Make your enemy roll twice and pick the worse roll for everything. Will negates, SR

Thespianus
2009-06-02, 10:24 AM
I'm no good with the higher level spells, but if you snatch 2 levels of Unseen Seer, you can net yourself Divine Insight, a neat Cleric spell that gives you 5+CL (max +15) as an insight bonus to a skill check.

If you want to Persist Metamagic, I can recommend taking a different spell at level 2 of Unseen Seer: Hunter's Eye. 1D6 Sneak Attack / 3 caster levels. Use it all day with rays and orbs, or even touch attacks.

Then again, it might be a costly spell to Persist.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-02, 10:44 AM
I'm creating a wizard using the alternative class feature from Complete Champion that lets you convert any spell you have prepared into a divination spell you knowprinted in any book, anywhere, for any class' spell list.Not trying to encourage brokenness, just discouraging inaccuracy.

Lamech
2009-06-02, 10:59 AM
Ultimate magus - free metamagic FTW You can "spontaneously cast" now, so no need for a sorc level.
Contact Other Plane - remember any question including ones about the future can be answered. Also try to boost int checks.
Commune - Also fun. But the DM doesn't have that table to roll on. So he can screw you over with "don't know".
Epic spells- those only count as level 10. Also it say "cast" not "maybe cast if you beat the spellcraft DC" Teeheehee...

Thats all I got...

Zaq
2009-06-02, 11:41 AM
I like Omen of Peril, from Races of Destiny. It's not normally a Wizard spell, but you can fix that with Arcane Disciple, Recaster, or Unseen Seer. It's basically a first level Augury without the expensive material component.

Optimystik
2009-06-02, 12:28 PM
I like Omen of Peril, from Races of Destiny. It's not normally a Wizard spell, but you can fix that with Arcane Disciple, Recaster, or Unseen Seer. It's basically a first level Augury without the expensive material component.

In case the OP (or anyone else) doesn't have RoD, that spell is also in the Spell Compendium.

Keld Denar
2009-06-02, 12:46 PM
I've mentioned it earlier in quite a few threads, but I really don't like the mechanics of Unluck. Its a standard action to cast....strike 1. It doesn't do anything on its own, but requires other spells be cast in conjunction with it...strike 2. It allows a save...strike 3.

Seriously, its just a poorly built spell. If they already failed the will save vs Unluck, wouldn't they also have failed a save against something else? Like...Charm Monster? Slow? Baleful Polymorph? Etc.

Seriously, make it a swift action cast, or remove the save, or even both, and it would be a GREAT spell. As is, totally not worth casting.

"But what if you have 2 casters, and one opens with Unluck and the other follows up with UBERSPELL?"

To which I reply...why not just have both cast UBERSPELL? If you are gonna make your foe have to make 2 saves, at least make them both game enders for him. Even if the Unluck does land, there is still a chance to save against the followup, and if thats the case, if you had used another spell instead of Unluck as your 1st spell, your foe would already be affected by whatever it is you cast as the followup.

Its a failure of action economy, and a failure of resource economy. Sure, its a cool concept for a spell, but it FAILS mechanically.

Zaq
2009-06-02, 12:47 PM
In case the OP (or anyone else) doesn't have RoD, that spell is also in the Spell Compendium.

Huh, so it is. I assumed that since the Destiny domain isn't in the Spell Compendium, neither was that spell. Interesting.

Optimystik
2009-06-02, 01:40 PM
Seriously, make it a swift action cast, or remove the save, or even both, and it would be a GREAT spell. As is, totally not worth casting.

"But what if you have 2 casters, and one opens with Unluck and the other follows up with UBERSPELL?"

To which I reply...why not just have both cast UBERSPELL? If you are gonna make your foe have to make 2 saves, at least make them both game enders for him. Even if the Unluck does land, there is still a chance to save against the followup, and if thats the case, if you had used another spell instead of Unluck as your 1st spell, your foe would already be affected by whatever it is you cast as the followup.

Its a failure of action economy, and a failure of resource economy. Sure, its a cool concept for a spell, but it FAILS mechanically.

I agree they should remove the save (or give it a penalty), but it's not quite as bad as you say. It affects every roll they make, not just saves - that means skill checks, attack rolls, level checks, all of it.

Further, if one of your two casters is a bard, he may not have "uberspell." This gives him a way to make it easier for the real caster to punch through.

Eldariel
2009-06-02, 01:50 PM
Greater Prying Eyes. For serious, True Seeing without the expensive material components! Oh, and you don't need to risk anyone in the party to check out places. Awesome.

Emy
2009-06-02, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
I'm creating a wizard using the alternative class feature from Complete Champion that lets you convert any spell you have prepared into a divination spell you knowprinted in any book, anywhere, for any class' spell list.

Not trying to encourage brokenness, just discouraging inaccuracy.

Really? :amused:



Page 52 - Spontaneous Divination - Benefit [Revision]
The first sentence should instead read, "You can spontaneously cast any spell you know from the divination school by sacrificing a prepared spell of equal or greater level."

Not trying to discourage brokenness, just discouraging inaccuracy.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-02, 03:44 PM
Not trying to discourage brokenness, just discouraging inaccuracy.

It's often puzzled me what they mean by that given this is a feat to change a prep caster to have some spont features. Given it's for Wizards they don't actually know any spells that they haven't got Spell Mastered. The stuff in their books is forgotten every time they cast, you could have it as 'any div spell you have previously prepared' and have it mean what I think they mean but at the moment it's 'spell known' which for most wizards is Read Magic and bupkus else. Even spell mastery doesn't give you a spell 'known' it just gives you some that you can prepare without reading a book....

Dark_Scary
2009-06-02, 04:55 PM
Yeah, it's funny when bad wording is corrected to equally bad wording because WotC has absolutely no idea how any of their different casting types work.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-02, 05:08 PM
Yeah, it's funny when bad wording is corrected to equally bad wording because WotC has absolutely no idea how any of their different casting types work.

to be fair, it's not bad wording to equally bad wording. It's bad (broken) wording to totally incoherent wording that anyone who's been involved with vancian casting can see is completely meaningless.

It's almost like WotC hasn't got a clue, employs people that haven't got a clue, writes stuff and prints it without reading it first, corrects it after repeated requests for clarification on what the hell they're babbling about and then utterly fluffs it because, well, they haven't got a clue and only employ writers on the basis of what they'll work for and not how smart they are.

But hey, now we've got 4th Ed so that's ok then, even WotC shouldn't mess that one up for a few splats.....

Darrin
2009-06-02, 10:58 PM
I'm creating a wizard using the alternative class feature from Complete Champion that lets you convert any spell you have prepared into a divination spell you know. Any recommendations?


I thought there were a bunch of divination spells you can grab early from various PrC spell lists... for example, Runescarred Berserker gets see invisibility as a 1st level spell. Identify = 1st level Oracle domain. Trapsmith in Dungeonscape has several, including arcane sight and clairaudience/clairvoyence at 1st level and arcane eye at 2nd.

The wording in Complete Champion doesn't specify arcane or divine, so I think you can grab divination spells from anybody's spell list... and it doesn't even specify that you have to *know* them (although how you spontaneously cast a spell your character has never heard of does sound a wee bit circumspect...). Or am I getting confused with the Archivist?

Dark_Scary
2009-06-02, 11:06 PM
Darrin, that was all true pre errata. To fix that problem, WotC made the ruling that Wizard's can spontaneously cast spells that they know. Which, being Wizard's means that they can spell mastery some Divination spells and use it, or not use it.

Theoretically you could use it with other spells you know with other classes, but you'd have to multiclass casters with a minimum of 5 levels of Wizard. Which frankly sucks.

So either you can use the original powerful one, Not use it, or houserule it to what you would have before the errata.

The Errata is completely useless.