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View Full Version : The "Nooooooo!" dive (feat question)



John_D
2006-05-19, 08:48 AM
One of my fellow players is currently playing a barbarian who's very protective of his fellow party members. When we were discussing D&D the other day, he mentioned that he'd quite like a feat where he could leap in front of an ally to take a blow for them. A cursory scan through Complete Warrior and Adventurer yielded nothing, so is it anywhere else?

Failing that, how does this look:

Suicide Dive

Your quick reactions allow you to dive in front of your companions and shield them from ranged attacks.

Effect: When an ally is targeted by a ranged attack, you may immediately move up to half your movement to reach their square. This move must be made before the attack roll is resolved. If you cannot reach the targeted ally, the feat is unusable. If the subsequent attack hits, roll a DC15 reflex save. If the save is successful, the attack hits you instead of your ally; if unsuccessful, the attack hits your ally as normal. You end your movement prone in your ally's square whether the attack hit you, your ally or missed completely.

Ugh. the text scans pretty poorly but I think you can see what I'm going for. Thoughts?

ReluctantDragon
2006-05-19, 08:51 AM
I like that feat!

The only thing that I think comes close to what you are looking for is the Shield Another feat.

Casualgamer
2006-05-19, 08:54 AM
There's a PrC that lets you do that. Forgot what it was called.

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-05-19, 09:01 AM
There's a PrC that lets you do that. Forgot what it was called.
Bodyguard Devoted Defender from Sword and Fist?

Ogh_the_Second
2006-05-19, 09:02 AM
I guess you mean the "Devoted Defender" (I think) - from Complete Warrior.

Catch
2006-05-19, 09:11 AM
For balance purposes, I'd make it an immediate action. *That way, you can only do it 1/round, and avoid any abuse potential. *And it makes sense, considering that one barbarian (no matter how devoted he is) can't take every hit.

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-05-19, 09:20 AM
I guess you mean the "Devoted Defender" (I think) - from Complete Warrior.
Yeah. *Devoted Defender. *But it's not in Complete Warrior. *I only ever saw it in Sword and Fist.

Falrin
2006-05-19, 09:24 AM
What with sneak attacks? I presume the extra damage is negated.
Also this feat works on all ranged attacks, so you could use it agains rays? What about Ranged Touch spells?


And, very rare situation, but here we go. Is there any possibility you can use this feat to jump between the enemy fighter and his cleric to gain spell?

Ogh_the_Second
2006-05-19, 09:29 AM
Yeah. *Devoted Defender. *But it's not in Complete Warrior. *I only ever saw it in Sword and Fist.

Ow. My bad. Well - it might still be worth to take a look at.

Catch
2006-05-19, 09:30 AM
And, very rare situation, but here we go. Is there any possibility you can use this feat to jump between the enemy fighter and his cleric to gain spell?

Healing spells and buffs don't require an attack roll. So, I'd say no.

(This is the abuse potential I was talking about).

Falrin
2006-05-19, 09:49 AM
Is there nowhere some obscure Ray spell with a beneficial effect? It would be way to cool when the BBeG keeps going on about his moghty new spell that's turn his 1st LvL commoner servant in a killing machine, but when he casts it the useless bard jumps in front, becomes a killer and wacks the BBeG.

Democratus
2006-05-19, 10:03 AM
Healing spells and buffs don't require an attack roll. *So, I'd say no. *

A heal spell used against an undead would require an attack roll.

Seffbasilisk
2006-05-19, 10:15 AM
You don't need to make it an immediate action because you end up prone at the end of it, and if your character can somehow leap straight up from prone as a free action, then you deserve to be able to block more then one shot.

Democratus
2006-05-19, 10:23 AM
Grot and Myxlpix are wandering through the swamp. The murky water is knee deep, hindering their movement. Misquitoes are buzzing all around. Suddenly, Grot sees that a misquito is about to bite his companion.

"Nooooooooo!" Grot dives frantically between the misquito and Myxlpix just as the vile insect plunges its proboscus down.

Grot lands prone under the water at Myxlpix's feet, scratching at the mild itch on his neck.

idksocrates
2006-05-19, 10:26 AM
Making it an immediate action is good because of balance: if you take the round blocking for a friend, it means you don't have time to cast a swift spell, or other swift actions.

And the feat shouldn't be used for anything other than shielding an ally - the feat represents an automatic reflex that spawns from an unyeilding devotion to the well-being of your party members. The ability to steal a beneficial effect from an enemy is deserving of a decent level PrC ability in of itself.

idksocrates
2006-05-19, 10:27 AM
Grot and Myxlpix are wandering through the swamp. *The murky water is knee deep, hindering their movement. *Misquitoes are buzzing all around. *Suddenly, Grot sees that a misquito is about to bite his companion.

"Nooooooooo!" *Grot dives frantically between the misquito and Myxlpix just as the vile insect plunges its proboscus down.

Grot lands prone under the water at Myxlpix's feet, scratching at the mild itch on his neck.

funny, but the feat does only apply to ranged attacks.

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-05-19, 10:30 AM
You don't need to make it an immediate action because you end up prone at the end of it, and if your character can somehow leap straight up from prone as a free action, then you deserve to be able to block more then one shot.
Theif-Acrobat from Complete Adventurer has a Kip Up ability that allows standing up from prone as a free action. I also believe that you can do the same with a high enough Tumble check.

sniffles
2006-05-19, 06:15 PM
One of my fellow players is currently playing a barbarian who's very protective of his fellow party members. When we were discussing D&D the other day, he mentioned that he'd quite like a feat where he could leap in front of an ally to take a blow for them. A cursory scan through Complete Warrior and Adventurer yielded nothing, so is it anywhere else?

Failing that, how does this look:

Suicide Dive

Your quick reactions allow you to dive in front of your companions and shield them from ranged attacks.

Effect: When an ally is targeted by a ranged attack, you may immediately move up to half your movement to reach their square. This move must be made before the attack roll is resolved. If you cannot reach the targeted ally, the feat is unusable. If the subsequent attack hits, roll a DC15 reflex save. If the save is successful, the attack hits you instead of your ally; if unsuccessful, the attack hits your ally as normal. You end your movement prone in your ally's square whether the attack hit you, your ally or missed completely.

Ugh. the text scans pretty poorly but I think you can see what I'm going for. Thoughts?
I've often wished for something similar, especially when playing Champions.

I suspect you'd need something more for your Suicide Dive to work in keeping with the spirit of most D&D feats. Some prerequisites first of all, such as Dodge or perhaps Prone Attack, ranks in Jump or Tumble, maybe a base attack bonus prerequisite too. And possibly some tighter restrictions on movement. I think an action like this would have to end the character's actions for the round.

How about something similar to the Knight Protector's Defensive Stance ability (from Complete Warrior)? A Knight Protector who starts his turn within 5 feet of an ally who has fewer Hit Dice than he does can transfer up to 2 points of AC to the ally, and this ability increases with level. :)

Rei_Jin
2006-05-19, 06:25 PM
Something like this would require Combat Reflexes in my opinion, and maybe even Uncanny Dodge. Whilst that does restrict those who can use it, why should anyone else have the reflexes to do something like this? A rogue would definitely have the potential to do this, and a barbarian "could" do it, especially with his higher speed.

Your standard paladin or cleric in full plate? Not likely. A dwarven fighter? Nu-uh. Not gonna happen. Your wizard wouldn't be willing to do it, he probably wouldn't survive. So that leaves the Barbarian (definitely going to survive) and the rogue (plenty of life saving class abilities at higher level).

John_D
2006-05-19, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I remember thinking in the shower (which is when I tend to zone out and ponder D&D) that this would have to be an immediate action, but must have forgotten it by the time I reached the keyboard. Whoops!

Extra sneak attack damage would be negated, yes. Hm, i've just thought about something else: size. It'll be harder for a halfling to shield a great wyrm from an attack than vice versa (sillier too). Perhaps the DC can increase by two for every size category larger than you the shielded ally is, and decrease by two for every size category smaller?

As for pre-reqs, I honestly hadn't thought that far. Right now this feat is intended for application to one particular character. Obviously if it is going to become an open option there must be some limitations, but I might need to work on what those are a little.

Rei_Jin
2006-05-19, 07:27 PM
Let me try a rebuild of it, see what balance I can come up with yah?


Selfless Defender (Tactical Feat)

Pre-reqs:
Dex 13+
Combat Reflexes
Dodge
Mobility
Character level 5th+
This feat is a boon to those who wish to defend their allies at their own expense. Often taken by bodyguards, it has been used to save many lives from potentially lethal blows. There are several ways that this defense can manifest.

All uses of this ability use the following mechanics.

Your ally must be within 1/2 your movement range.
Your ally must be within 1 size category of you.
You must not be flat footed.
Usable as an Immediate action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
At the end of this action, whether it suceeds or not, you give up your next rounds worth of actions.


Suicidal Dive:
You can dive in front of your allies, blocking a ranged attack at the cost of your own health.

You can attempt a DC15 reflex save to take a hit for an ally from a ranged attack. At the end of this action, regardless of whether it succeeded or not, you are prone in their square.


Body Block:
You can push your allies out of the way, taking the ire of enemies and their attacks as well.

You can attempt a Bullrush attempt against an ally to push him out of the way. Should you succeed, you end up in his square, taking the attacks that were aimed at him for that round.


Living Shield:
You can cover your allies from an area effect spell or spell like ability.

You can attempt a DC15 reflex save to block an ally from the effects of an area effect. You voluntarily give up your own reflex save. Should you suceed, you take half as much damage again, and your ally takes none. Should you fail, you take full damage and you ally saves as per normal. At the end of this action, regardless of whether it succeeded or not, you are prone in their square.

This feat is far more useful, is balanced, and can see more wide spread use.

What do you think?

Gdrad
2006-05-19, 08:01 PM
Your AC drops to 5, and the defense must be called before the enemys attack roll.
Toss that in for the feat, it makes the enemies attack an auto hit practically which is good for them. or similiar, say you become flatfooted while doing so, and your AC drops by 5.

Skyserpent
2006-05-19, 09:33 PM
Couldn't a Monk make this really broken? Run really fast, and Deflect the arrows...

Rei_Jin
2006-05-19, 09:36 PM
He could run really fast and deflect the arrows, but then he'd be on the ground, prone. And he'd give up his next rounds worth of actions.

I don't see a problem with that.

John_D
2006-05-20, 08:20 AM
I like it! Thanks Rei Jin, I'll link my friends here and see what they say.

firepup
2006-05-20, 09:59 AM
i think, that the person whom is jumping in front of the target should not be able to use a feat that allows them to block the damage done to themselves by the attack. or you could get somehing like this

dm: bbeg shoots at fighter with an arrow of doom and distruction

monk: i suicide jump in front of fighter and deflect the arrow.

idksocrates
2006-05-20, 09:09 PM
i think, that the person whom is jumping in front of the target should not be able to use a feat that allows them to block the damage done to themselves by the attack. or you could get somehing like this

dm: bbeg shoots at fighter with an arrow of doom and distruction

monk: i suicide jump in front of fighter and deflect the arrow.
actually, that sounds like a perfectly valid and reasonable thing to do with the feat.

Grug
2006-05-20, 10:39 PM
Why not add a whole new comabat ability: Interpose! While grtappeling you can use your body to grant cover, while taking a penalty to yourown AC and Reflex Save. That's kind of what happens. Then the person you are grappling wants out you can just fail your gra[[le check when they escape.