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-Baldur-
2009-06-03, 08:06 PM
I don't like the Ninja. There. I said it.

I also am unsure of the Sword Sage and basing a class on maneuvers.

Thus. I'm asking for your input as to what you would like to see in a PURELY combat oriented Ninja. Yes he is hidey and stabby. No he does not excel in social situations, that's why you have the rogue. This Ninja will be a better fighter than the fighter (when he can hide anyway) he will have abilities that flat foot the opponent, he will have two primary weapons that he is incredibly capable with (whilst being useless at the rest).

He will be a mix of nightstalker and stabby mc stabby.

I'm interested in: Favoured Race suggestions, he will be a base class so no multi classing suggestions, you can suggest NEW abilities or existing abilities, and I need a capstone. I'm thinking ultimate Nightstalker sneakiness (One free sneak attack on all enemies within 20ft regardless of your move), Im considering allowing him to teleport at will within a 40ft radius for uber Nightstalkerness. But this may be game breaking...yes? No?

Anyway. Bring on the suggestions for what you'd like to see and I shall make the class!

Blue Warlock
2009-06-03, 08:19 PM
I really don't see what you will have to gain by this, the two abilities you have suggested are both stupid powerful at least how I interpret what you are saying (you aren't being terribly clear, do you mean having teleport 40ft as an at will ability, making it weak, or do you mean being able to be anywhere within 40ft at all times?)

That being said I am going to recomend swordsage, as anything you do will be in the exact same set up as that class anyway (I assume you are going to have some always active or always usable abilities combined with per day stuff(or per encounter)) meaning there really isn't a reason for this.

Maybe if you said what you didn't like about the ninja or the swordsage specifically and how they don't fit your ninja ideal then we could better help you out, as is you have given us very little to go on, as everything that comes to mind when I think of ninja is in either the ninja or swordsage class.

-Baldur-
2009-06-03, 08:37 PM
I really don't see what you will have to gain by this, the two abilities you have suggested are both stupid powerful at least how I interpret what you are saying (you aren't being terribly clear, do you mean having teleport 40ft as an at will ability, making it weak, or do you mean being able to be anywhere within 40ft at all times?)

That being said I am going to recomend swordsage, as anything you do will be in the exact same set up as that class anyway (I assume you are going to have some always active or always usable abilities combined with per day stuff(or per encounter)) meaning there really isn't a reason for this.

Maybe if you said what you didn't like about the ninja or the swordsage specifically and how they don't fit your ninja ideal then we could better help you out, as is you have given us very little to go on, as everything that comes to mind when I think of ninja is in either the ninja or swordsage class.


Yep. At will. And I don't see it being any more game breaking than a wizards ability to change an entire world. :-) I think wizards are ridiculously over powered if played right. I want something to match up. To be honest I'll probably grab some of the stances and change em around a little and make a few at wills and Per days like spells but with more combat function only. I might make the teleport at will a LITTLE weaker, fatigue the user or something. And I don't like sword sage because you have to choose stances. I just want a purely ability based character who owns all skills he has access to.

afroakuma
2009-06-03, 08:58 PM
Look in my homebrew directory to see what I did about the ninja.

-Baldur-
2009-06-03, 09:20 PM
Look in my homebrew directory to see what I did about the ninja.

I like it. Very very similar to what I wanna do. But still not enough abilities centered on flat footing everyone.

I really like the teleport thing. I want to incoporate this. I cannot see it being game breaking in the slightest. If anyone can suggest how a teleport 40 or teleport (movement range) would be game breaking please let me know.

Unless you throw in the teflemmar shadow lord ability of attack after teleport of course.

tyckspoon
2009-06-03, 09:22 PM
Hide In Plain Sight in some form would be a requirement, I think. I would put it somewhere in the low mid-levels; deep enough in that it's not very tempting to dip for it, but early enough that a character could make use of it for most of his career. Somewhere in the 5-8 range would be appropriate (and, incidentally, would also be about when the character could start getting a really good Hide/Move Silent check to use it with.)


The potential brokenness of teleportation depends on the specific form of teleportation. What kind of action does it take to do? Does it require line of sight and effect like most things, or does it work like most teleport spells and require knowing only where you want to end up? A standard action Teleport that respects line of sight and effect is very useful, but not really broken (especially in combat.) It's not capable of doing most of the really useful teleport bypasses like skipping around the world in one action or bypassing a number of otherwise almost complete barriers, and its combat utility can be controlled with a number of effects.

On the other extreme, a Swift action Teleport that doesn't require line of sight or effect is incredibly useful and probably broken.

-Baldur-
2009-06-03, 11:03 PM
Hide In Plain Sight in some form would be a requirement, I think. I would put it somewhere in the low mid-levels; deep enough in that it's not very tempting to dip for it, but early enough that a character could make use of it for most of his career. Somewhere in the 5-8 range would be appropriate (and, incidentally, would also be about when the character could start getting a really good Hide/Move Silent check to use it with.)


The potential brokenness of teleportation depends on the specific form of teleportation. What kind of action does it take to do? Does it require line of sight and effect like most things, or does it work like most teleport spells and require knowing only where you want to end up? A standard action Teleport that respects line of sight and effect is very useful, but not really broken (especially in combat.) It's not capable of doing most of the really useful teleport bypasses like skipping around the world in one action or bypassing a number of otherwise almost complete barriers, and its combat utility can be controlled with a number of effects.

On the other extreme, a Swift action Teleport that doesn't require line of sight or effect is incredibly useful and probably broken.

See I was thinking Swift Action teleport, no line of sight required Once per day per every 10 levels. Then Have Teleport as an at will ability but only line of sight, and using a standard action. This way they get that uber delicious "Surprise Im here to screw you" action twice a day. But their regular form of movement should be solely teleportation. I'm considering an ability called "Shifted Darkness" where in twice a day the character becomes invisible after teleporting. This would be deliciously powerful but not so broken as to be a wizard. God I hate wizards lol.

Ouranos
2009-06-03, 11:36 PM
Abundant Step from monk. but make it only a move action. Reduce the range abit, and boom, he just steps through the shadows and stabs you in the back.

-Baldur-
2009-06-03, 11:39 PM
Abundant Step from monk. but make it only a move action. Reduce the range abit, and boom, he just steps through the shadows and stabs you in the back.

Ohhh tasty, I like it. Abundent step...this is in the PHB? or a taken feat? What's the current range? At will Abundant step. Delicious.

Ouranos
2009-06-03, 11:44 PM
PHB. Monk uses it as the spell Dimension Door, caster level half monk lvl. Acquired at 12. once per day on monk. Base range I beleive is 900 feet. I figure, cut the range back alot, up it's daily uses alot, make it a move action. Free action is massively OP, because it's INSTANT perfect teleport. With it as a move he can instantly move anywhere within range. Maybe make it base of 40 feet, +10 per ninja level after 1st. Useage... maybe start at 5+... dex or wis? and another 1 use per 2 levels.

-Baldur-
2009-06-03, 11:48 PM
PHB. Monk uses it as the spell Dimension Door, caster level half monk lvl. Acquired at 12. once per day on monk. Base range I beleive is 900 feet. I figure, cut the range back alot, up it's daily uses alot, make it a move action. Free action is massively OP, because it's INSTANT perfect teleport. With it as a move he can instantly move anywhere within range. Maybe make it base of 40 feet, +10 per ninja level after 1st. Useage... maybe start at 5+... dex or wis? and another 1 use per 2 levels.

I think he will have two different sets of teleport. The one your suggesting will be his base movement rate. Thus unlimited uses per day. But only line of sight and base of 30+(maybe) 5 per every 2 levels. This will make him one of the fastest party members. We'll make it a move action.

His second teleport is a 2/day perfect teleport swift action. Might make it 1/day depending on peoples opinion of brokeness. What's the opinion on this?

Also, Hide in Plain sight was suggested before. This will be a definite.

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 12:00 AM
Well my thing is ninjas weren't ALWAYS just vanishing from sight. They were hit and run. you teleport, stab stab, teleport out. They were quick, not Nightcrawler from X-Men. Maybe a big teleport, but they shouldn't ALWAYS be teleporting with every movement. it should be a tactical decision.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 12:01 AM
Well my thing is ninjas weren't ALWAYS just vanishing from sight. They were hit and run. you teleport, stab stab, teleport out. They were quick, not Nightcrawler from X-Men. Maybe a big teleport, but they shouldn't ALWAYS be teleporting with every movement. it should be a tactical decision.

What if we changed it from a ninja to another name? Because whilst ninja's are stealthy, they don't really embody pure combat. They were also brilliant poets, artisans etc. I want a sheerly combat oriented character. Bringing stealthy death is their life. If they're not doing it they're not living...You know?

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 12:10 AM
Perhaps call it something like Dimensional Blade or Planar Blade, a dagger-wielder who steps through planes or dimensions like we walk through shallow water. I still think unlimited uses is abit over the top, but a high number of uses if he's based on that would work. Maybe 5 TIMES dex instead of 5 + dex. So a smart blade would have (at BARE FRIGGIN MINIMUM) 16 dex, and thus even at level 1 have 15 uses per day. And then make it scale, every few levels, say every 3-4? add another multiplyer. So at say 3rd level, now it's 6 times, giving him an extra 3 even with such a pitiful dex. By level 20 even with a starting dex of 16 he'd have at least 20 dex, and at every 3 levels he'd have a multi of 11, netting him 55 uses per day, before magic items/spells.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 12:32 AM
Perhaps call it something like Dimensional Blade or Planar Blade, a dagger-wielder who steps through planes or dimensions like we walk through shallow water. I still think unlimited uses is abit over the top, but a high number of uses if he's based on that would work. Maybe 5 TIMES dex instead of 5 + dex. So a smart blade would have (at BARE FRIGGIN MINIMUM) 16 dex, and thus even at level 1 have 15 uses per day. And then make it scale, every few levels, say every 3-4? add another multiplyer. So at say 3rd level, now it's 6 times, giving him an extra 3 even with such a pitiful dex. By level 20 even with a starting dex of 16 he'd have at least 20 dex, and at every 3 levels he'd have a multi of 11, netting him 55 uses per day, before magic items/spells.

Dimensional Blade has a sexy ring to it. I don't want him wielding daggers though, unless we enhance them through his abilities. He's a fighter, regardless of his sneakiness his only reason for existance is to kill. So I'm thinking dual wielded magic short swords and a crossbow for sniper kills.

So what would, by your math reasoning, his cap at level 20 be for regular teleports? What did you think of the two types of teleports? Fair?

Suzuro
2009-06-04, 01:47 AM
...somewhat off topic, but ninjas were not artisans, poets, etcetera. They were poor, repressed farmers who got tired of being treated like trash by the upper classes.

As to the class, I agree that the name "ninja" has far too many limiting connotations to be what you are wanting it to do.


-Suzuro

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 01:50 AM
...somewhat off topic, but ninjas were not artisans, poets, etcetera. They were poor, repressed farmers who got tired of being treated like trash by the upper classes.

As to the class, I agree that the name "ninja" has far too many limiting connotations to be what you are wanting it to do.


-Suzuro

You are correct. Was I thinking of Bushido? I googled ninja and I was way off but dont have time to google bushido. I know one of the classes of feudal japan was artists as well as warriors

tyckspoon
2009-06-04, 01:56 AM
Yeah, you're thinking of samurai there. Particularly, samurai after they actually gelled as a social class and it became expected that they should be good at everything and not just good at killing people (amusingly, this point is usually reached because people get so good at killing people that everybody decides to take a break from killing people because too many people are getting killed. So the killing people-people have to find some other way to fill their time.)

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 11:18 AM
Cap multiplyer at 20 would be 10 or 11. The multiplyer would go to his dex modifier, so with say, 18 base, 5 increases to net 23, belt of agility for 29, cat's grace adds... 4 more? for 33. Provided my math is correct, this nets him a modifer of 11, times his usage multi for 121 uses PER DAY. This is all theory of course. And I do agree with a long one, but maybe make it based on his total pool, perhaps he can string attempts togethor but it costs extra?

Example for long range: Our Blade has 50 uses. Lets say he's 10th lvl. Normal one at this point would be 130 feet. So if he wanted to go longer, he would pay a penalty cost of say 1 use, in addition to the normal use, to add a full length to his teleport. So he'd go from 130 feet, to 260 feet, but it cost him 1 use as a penalty. And longer ranges would increase the penalty. Maybe for every additional use the penalty stacks. So 260 feet costs hm 1 extra, 390 feet (1 jump further) would cost 2 more, 520 feet (1 more jump further) would cost 3 more. So our example Blade could teleport 530 feet, at the cost of 6 uses in penalty, and 4 regular uses for the distance. So he could go WAY beyond range for most spells and attacks and certainly out of melee or bow range, but the cost was hefty. However, in our example, he'd still be able to do it 4 more times!

Lord Loss
2009-06-04, 11:51 AM
One Word: COOL.

Now, we want to Do This: Teleport the heck in, stabbity stabbity, teleport the heck out. I like it. The Only problem is it doesnt involve a lot of teamwork, but other than that it's COOOOL.

My suggestion:

Instead of Giving it sneak attack or sudden strike, it gets an ability that gives it extra attacks and extra damage if it attacks after teleporting.

Like +1d6/+1 Attack At Level One, At Level three +2d6/+1 attack, at level 5 +3d6 +2 Attacks and and so on.

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 12:11 PM
No, it needs to be more straight up. Mayhaps skirmish, and spring attack as a class feature down the road. Teleport a partial distance, make your attack, then finish the port. Call it flash of steel or somethin. Encourage him to attack and move, attack and move. hit die is d8, higher and it gets a little over the top, lower and he's too squishy. And yeah, no daggers. Ninja-to, essentially longsword if Im not mistaken.

The Rose Dragon
2009-06-04, 12:43 PM
Ninja-to, essentially longsword if Im not mistaken.

Short sword according to WotC, but slashing.

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 01:17 PM
Meh, wakizashi should be short sword with Ninja-to and kodachi as long sword with katana bastard sword, no-dachi greatsword. Ninja-to were nearly the length of a katana, but straight. They were also folded alot less, making them greatly cheaper and faster to make. They were more fragile then a katana, but easier to hide, a little faster and lighter, and if broken, easily replaced. I'd say this guy should be profficient in a variety of stealth weapons and then long and short swords. So kunai, shuriken, blowdarts, hand crossbow/light crossbow, garrote, and maybe even monk unarmed damage but at a much slower progression rate. Make him an assasin supreme. Can get in and out quick and quiet, kill effectively, but still fight long enough to make his escape. A combatant for sure, but quick and quiet. Fewer skill points then ninja. Fewer class features, but ones certainly focused on his speed and agility.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 05:17 PM
Cap multiplyer at 20 would be 10 or 11. The multiplyer would go to his dex modifier, so with say, 18 base, 5 increases to net 23, belt of agility for 29, cat's grace adds... 4 more? for 33. Provided my math is correct, this nets him a modifer of 11, times his usage multi for 121 uses PER DAY. This is all theory of course. And I do agree with a long one, but maybe make it based on his total pool, perhaps he can string attempts togethor but it costs extra?

Example for long range: Our Blade has 50 uses. Lets say he's 10th lvl. Normal one at this point would be 130 feet. So if he wanted to go longer, he would pay a penalty cost of say 1 use, in addition to the normal use, to add a full length to his teleport. So he'd go from 130 feet, to 260 feet, but it cost him 1 use as a penalty. And longer ranges would increase the penalty. Maybe for every additional use the penalty stacks. So 260 feet costs hm 1 extra, 390 feet (1 jump further) would cost 2 more, 520 feet (1 more jump further) would cost 3 more. So our example Blade could teleport 530 feet, at the cost of 6 uses in penalty, and 4 regular uses for the distance. So he could go WAY beyond range for most spells and attacks and certainly out of melee or bow range, but the cost was hefty. However, in our example, he'd still be able to do it 4 more times!

I like it. You need to stick around, Im pretty sure we can co design this ability and make something work. I have ONE issue with it though. Keeping track of how many teleport uses he has that day. How do we do this? Also, keeping this teleport seperate from his immediate swift action teleports. I think I wanna raise the bar on how many of those he gets per day too.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 05:18 PM
One Word: COOL.

Now, we want to Do This: Teleport the heck in, stabbity stabbity, teleport the heck out. I like it. The Only problem is it doesnt involve a lot of teamwork, but other than that it's COOOOL.

My suggestion:

Instead of Giving it sneak attack or sudden strike, it gets an ability that gives it extra attacks and extra damage if it attacks after teleporting.

Like +1d6/+1 Attack At Level One, At Level three +2d6/+1 attack, at level 5 +3d6 +2 Attacks and and so on.

Detail it a little more :-) I like it though. It's a really good idea considering teleporting will probably end up being his prime method of locomotion. I think we'll centralise a lot of abilities around the teleportation and hiding skills that will synergise to his damage/attacks/further abilities. If he's not hiding or teleporting then he becomes rather mundane out in the open. Good. I like it.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 05:20 PM
No, it needs to be more straight up. Mayhaps skirmish, and spring attack as a class feature down the road. Teleport a partial distance, make your attack, then finish the port. Call it flash of steel or somethin. Encourage him to attack and move, attack and move. hit die is d8, higher and it gets a little over the top, lower and he's too squishy. And yeah, no daggers. Ninja-to, essentially longsword if Im not mistaken.

Skirmish damage is a good idea too. You're right though. He should never end his turn next to the enemy. Especially with your above suggested teleport usage. Skirmish is a good idea, especially considering the range he can achieve with the teleport rules suggested.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 05:22 PM
Meh, wakizashi should be short sword with Ninja-to and kodachi as long sword with katana bastard sword, no-dachi greatsword. Ninja-to were nearly the length of a katana, but straight. They were also folded alot less, making them greatly cheaper and faster to make. They were more fragile then a katana, but easier to hide, a little faster and lighter, and if broken, easily replaced. I'd say this guy should be profficient in a variety of stealth weapons and then long and short swords. So kunai, shuriken, blowdarts, hand crossbow/light crossbow, garrote, and maybe even monk unarmed damage but at a much slower progression rate. Make him an assasin supreme. Can get in and out quick and quiet, kill effectively, but still fight long enough to make his escape. A combatant for sure, but quick and quiet. Fewer skill points then ninja. Fewer class features, but ones certainly focused on his speed and agility.

We need one heavy damage melee, and one heavy damage long range. Ive considered designing a weapon purely for the class that synergises with his abilities per level, but he can have proficiency in those other weapons but at a much lesser effect and deadliness level. Opinions?

P.S Anyone know how I can multiquote into the one post? I've now done 4 seperate posts for 4 replies. Argh.

Xuincherguixe
2009-06-04, 06:05 PM
What I tend to do is either copy/paste, and just quote without giving the persons name... or opening up several windows.


I'm a Ninja kind of guy myself, and I've kind of come to the conclusion that really, there needs to be several Ninja classes.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 06:08 PM
What I tend to do is either copy/paste, and just quote without giving the persons name... or opening up several windows.


I'm a Ninja kind of guy myself, and I've kind of come to the conclusion that really, there needs to be several Ninja classes.

Explain? Maybe we can combine a few of what your looking for into this class. I want the class to have a lot of stabby dissapearing options, less town related options (speech, conversing, diplomacy) because after all the "ninja" should be a fighter not a diplomat or a skill monkey. :-) But chuck us some details, we'll see what we can do.

Xuincherguixe
2009-06-04, 07:09 PM
Eh, I'd be more likely to do something like that myself.

... Or not try it in D&D. There's better systems for handling Ninja.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 07:20 PM
Eh, I'd be more likely to do something like that myself.

... Or not try it in D&D. There's better systems for handling Ninja.

lol that would defeat the purpose of me designing this class for D & D :-p

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 07:27 PM
Thing is, I'm still not too convinced instant teleport, even short range, without limits is over the top. That's why my proposal is to have a high number of uses per day, with distance scaling by level, and long range teleports being simply a matter of digging deep into his pool. There's no reason to teleport with every move. Maybe let skirmish damage attach to each teleport, so he's encouraged to do it, but he has to monitor it and track it. if we have to we'll up the number of uses some for balance, but it HAS to be limited, hell even monks only get it once a day, this guy is just gonna be hoppin all over the place, hard to pin down, very mobile.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 07:30 PM
Thing is, I'm still not too convinced instant teleport, even short range, without limits is over the top. That's why my proposal is to have a high number of uses per day, with distance scaling by level, and long range teleports being simply a matter of digging deep into his pool. There's no reason to teleport with every move. Maybe let skirmish damage attach to each teleport, so he's encouraged to do it, but he has to monitor it and track it. if we have to we'll up the number of uses some for balance, but it HAS to be limited, hell even monks only get it once a day, this guy is just gonna be hoppin all over the place, hard to pin down, very mobile.

My only concern with that is like I said keeping track of how many he has? Unless there's a computer close at hand or a clicker? Hmmm we can place limitations then. Maybe some swift action teleports within 40 ft, line of sight only? This gives him some more skirmish options? I want him to have at least one method of a quick escape instead of a standard action escape. Because even with D8 HD he is still a "Hell no I wont get stuck slugging it out" kinda character. :-)

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 07:34 PM
That's just it, it's not standards, they're move actions :) Anytime he moves, he can do one if he has uses available. And I'm not even putting line of sight limit on it. Dimension door doesn't require it, just requires knowing where you're headed.

Example: I see a window 3 stories up, and I can see the room is empty. I use a teleport, and boom, I'm there. That's line of sight.

Example: A team-mate tells me the doorway 100 feet down range is clear with a spyglass, I don't have to see it, i know where it is, so i step through, boom.

And with spring attack applying to his ability, he could make a partial port, say half regular distance, strike, then continue the MOVE ACTION it is and go the other half.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 07:51 PM
That's just it, it's not standards, they're move actions :) Anytime he moves, he can do one if he has uses available. And I'm not even putting line of sight limit on it. Dimension door doesn't require it, just requires knowing where you're headed.

Example: I see a window 3 stories up, and I can see the room is empty. I use a teleport, and boom, I'm there. That's line of sight.

Example: A team-mate tells me the doorway 100 feet down range is clear with a spyglass, I don't have to see it, i know where it is, so i step through, boom.

And with spring attack applying to his ability, he could make a partial port, say half regular distance, strike, then continue the MOVE ACTION it is and go the other half.

Hmmm I like it. Okay. Teleport: Move action: Uses= Level X Modifier. Range= Base 30ft+5 foot (every 2 levels)

We've got his secondary attack/movement form down.

Other abilities:

Skirmish teleport (Flash of steel): Any time the Phantom Blade/Planar Blade etc etc Jump+attack+jumps a modifier of XD6 is then applied to the attack. This does not require the enemy to be flat footed (We'll keep the flat footed distance attacks and call it Sniper). The Blade MUST have move remaining after the attack is made or is forced to....Take damage? Suffer an ability penalty?

Hide and Seek: X number of times per day per ??? levels, the blade can exit the teleport and be rendered invisible. Similar to the dimension door spell. This only functions on jumps of up to a maximum of 30? 40 ft?

Sniper: As long as the Blade is more than 50 ft away and unseen, he may make one attack using a ranged weapon that deals XD6+Blade level per every 3 levels of Blade.

These are some, ill come up with a few more too. Suggestions anyone on what you would like to see?

Hide in plain sight is obvious and will most likely be available at 5.

PumpkinEater
2009-06-04, 08:20 PM
I think you're looking for something like this... (for the Teleport-thing)

Shunpo

All shinigami learn to utilize the flash step, or Shunpo. Shunpo allows instantaneous movement from one point to the next as if by means of the dimensional door spell. Unlike the dimensional door spell, Shunpo can be used as a move action which does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You may still take an action after utilizing the shunpo. The amount of feet a shinigami can traverse with shunpo need not all be used at once, they can break it up however they desire. A warrior shinigami gains 20 feet of shunpo use at the 8th level. Every two levels thereafter they gain an additional 20 foot increase to their prior gain, so at 10th level they gain 40 feet of shunpo for a total of 60 feet, at 12th level they gain 60 feet of shunpo for a total of 120, and so on up to 560 feet at 20th level. Shunpo cannot take you to an area you cannot physically see when using it.

This was taken from the Bleach d20 thread.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 08:24 PM
I think you're looking for something like this... (for the Teleport-thing)

Shunpo

All shinigami learn to utilize the flash step, or Shunpo. Shunpo allows instantaneous movement from one point to the next as if by means of the dimensional door spell. Unlike the dimensional door spell, Shunpo can be used as a move action which does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You may still take an action after utilizing the shunpo. The amount of feet a shinigami can traverse with shunpo need not all be used at once, they can break it up however they desire. A warrior shinigami gains 20 feet of shunpo use at the 8th level. Every two levels thereafter they gain an additional 20 foot increase to their prior gain, so at 10th level they gain 40 feet of shunpo for a total of 60 feet, at 12th level they gain 60 feet of shunpo for a total of 120, and so on up to 560 feet at 20th level. Shunpo cannot take you to an area you cannot physically see when using it.

This was taken from the Bleach d20 thread.


That is a LOT like what i'm thinking about. Any opinions on how much teleporting is too much? I think O's suggestion of the modifier capping at 11x seemed fine. Considering it's part of his primary method for attacking. Maybe we should convert it to feet moveable though, that'd make it a bit easier to keep a track of....

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 08:35 PM
yeah, Sunpo was part of my inspiration, I just wanted it limited because that d20 game is ALOT higher on orders of power then regular D&D.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 08:40 PM
yeah, Sunpo was part of my inspiration, I just wanted it limited because that d20 game is ALOT higher on orders of power then regular D&D.

What about the other abilities I mentioned? Opinions/suggestions?

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 08:48 PM
Need some time to review, do some research and compare. and busy night, WoW raid.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 08:51 PM
Need some time to review, do some research and compare. and busy night, WoW raid.

Most assuredly. Go for your life. :-P Goodluck on whatever wow raid means. lol.

NakedCelt
2009-06-04, 08:59 PM
Just how close to reality is your revision intended to be? Because I gather real-life "ninjas" usually vanished from sight, not by disappearing into the shadows, but by being, e.g., the floor-sweeper with a sword concealed inside the shaft of his broom. Basically they were members of the lower classes who didn't like the fact that samurai were allowed to kill any of their fellows on a whim. Or I could have that completely wrong, of course, but it strikes me that it could make an interesting variation on a campaign setting...

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 09:07 PM
We mean he VANISHES. This is going more into the mystical and legendary ninja, not the true-to-life.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 09:09 PM
Just how close to reality is your revision intended to be? Because I gather real-life "ninjas" usually vanished from sight, not by disappearing into the shadows, but by being, e.g., the floor-sweeper with a sword concealed inside the shaft of his broom. Basically they were members of the lower classes who didn't like the fact that samurai were allowed to kill any of their fellows on a whim. Or I could have that completely wrong, of course, but it strikes me that it could make an interesting variation on a campaign setting...

Not TOO close. I've considered changing it from a ninja revision to a ninja overhaul to a new class. So far it's looking like a new class. As the title of ninja is a little too restricting.

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 09:12 PM
I like parts of the ninja reality though. I think disguise should DEFINATELY be a class skill and he needs a bonus.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 09:16 PM
I like parts of the ninja reality though. I think disguise should DEFINATELY be a class skill and he needs a bonus.

Yeah I was thinking Bluff/Disguise/Hide/Move silently/Climb/Swim

Any others?

He should probably get bonuses on bluff for feinting with his sword, and maybe a large bonus on hide.

Im considering giving him Blink as a permanent ability.

NakedCelt
2009-06-04, 09:36 PM
Oh, obviously keep fantasy elements in a fantasy game. I'm just thinking that the ninjas-as-hired-assassins trope is getting a bit tired, and maybe it's time to give them a new motivation...

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 09:39 PM
Blink's abit much I think. maybe a limited number of rounds per day, later level ability.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 10:38 PM
I agree...I'll need to think of fluff. But I really think we'll shift away from the feudal japan thing. Move into stealthy western killer. Because you are right, ninja assassins have been done to death.

By the by O, I was thinking, hand crossbow with a hidden attachment that allows it to become a Heavy Crossbow utilising the same reloading time as a hand crossbow, requires the skill Craft: Sniper Crossbow Components.

Ideas? Additions?

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 10:43 PM
Extra strong rope fiber, would have to be exotic and a class weapon or feat. standard action to make the change over. high cost and won't start play with one. Also, crossbow bracer, awesome sneak tool.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 11:03 PM
Extra strong rope fiber, would have to be exotic and a class weapon or feat. standard action to make the change over. high cost and won't start play with one. Also, crossbow bracer, awesome sneak tool.

Details on the crossbrow bracer? Yeah I was thinking exotic or class. And definitely a standard action (or two even) change over. Maybe feat would be a good idea. Though I wanna leave some feats open to the players discretion instead of forcing them to take it. Then again....they don't need to be a sniper if they've got those nifty teleport/hidey/stabby tricks.

Ouranos
2009-06-04, 11:23 PM
I'd have to REALLY dig to find it, but it functions as a hand crossbow, it just folds into a bracer. Takes up a bracer slot, but it gives a huge bonus to sleight of hand checks to hide it.

-Baldur-
2009-06-04, 11:50 PM
We could multi function it, Bracer hand crossbow that can detach and assemble into the equivalent of a heavy crossbow. It'd be an uber expensive weapon though.

Ouranos
2009-06-05, 12:06 AM
Nah, two seperate. The bracer one is part of the bracer, it's tiny, even uses tiny darts instead of full size bolts. usually poisoned. It's not an assault weapon, it's an assasin's tool.

Dunno bout you bro, but I'm looking at an assasin who's smart and tough as well as sneaky. More commando style then rogue. Not as tough as the fighter, not as nimble as the rogue, but he's got some serious skills and can kill single targets quick and easy, but can certainly manuver and control how a fight evolves.

-Baldur-
2009-06-05, 12:10 AM
Exactly. Thus the bracer kind of invalidates the ideal of that. Should he really be hiding meek little weapons? Or would he have his "assault" crossbow for long range killing? I dunno, bracer seems like an unideal inconvenience unless it can be managed into a transformable heavy long range implement of death. lol.

He can always have poisoned shurikens for those quick little producers where he can't quite get to his crossbow/bow.

Sword Im still considering. I love the katana...

Ouranos
2009-06-05, 12:17 AM
Why not both? Like I said, this guy sounds like he'll be a blend of stealthy, silent death, the assasin that blends in with the crowd until seconds before the diplomat guy dies suddenly to a crossbow bolt in the throat, but then when he gets spotted he quickly pulls out a pimpin sword and starts killin guards and teleporting til he gets a view of the outside so he can use a long range teleport and escape. He wants to snipe someone from a guard tower he teleported into? Thas what the big one's for. Can even have it fold from standard to heavy so he has mid range and long range, and the folding part would also make it easier to hide in his bags. I think re-loading the bracer one was a free action if you had rapid reload because it's small and easy. Oh well, time for me to get sleep. Will get back to this in the mornin.

-Baldur-
2009-06-05, 12:21 AM
Oh you so totally just sold me the idea of that. Good marketing spiel. lol. That whole little thing just made me salivate at the combat opportunities of it. Especially with a little hide in plain sight thrown in....ughh awesomeness. I'll throw up a very base level by level outline tomorrow night. Night man.

Ouranos
2009-06-05, 03:08 PM
I just had an idea. Any society that supports an assasin that can do these things, would support a counter. I'm thinking we need two classes, a stealthy, strong assasin, and a big, tough, warrior who moves much the same way, but is ALOT less sneaky. Like rogue vs. fighter, but with teleporting :D