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Rutskarn
2009-06-03, 08:06 PM
Goo-ood evening, ladies and gentlemen! Shift into your filth-encrusted cheap seats, try to ignore the mouth-breather next to you, and get ready to view the carnage and spectacle of...VERSUS THREAD ROUND-ROBIN! Sponsored by Chocolate Hammer.

You know the rules, party persons. For your amusement and academic consideration, two icons from media, generally equal in power level and similar in genre, throw down in the center ring. The next poster takes up the winner of that match, pits it against a suitable opponent, and so and so forth--until this thread runs out of posts or sinks into obscurity.

If you want to debate a result, do so in spoiler tags--and try to include a match-up of your own.

Here are the rules:

1.) You must use the winner from the last match-up.

2.) You must go into detail in your fight summary. No one-line resolutions, no "This guy. Nuff said." Pick match-ups that warrant some consideration.

3.) Fictional characters only.

4.) We're assuming combat in a generic arena. You may attach caveats and circumstances to your victory.

5.) Try to follow the OP in general formatting.


Let me kick us off.

MATCH UP #1: The Marine (Doom) versus Gordon Freeman (Half-Life)

This is a classic one.

Both survived massive catastrophes that killed all their coworkers, victims of insane and perverse experiments that brought in creatures from another dimension. Both are strong, silent types. Both have massive arsenals and improbably dense armor. Both have murdered enough dudes to populate a small country.

On the one hand, the Marine is a ad-bass which not even Hell can contain, a walking slab of muscle and armor that has chewed its way through more demon corpses than God's woodchipper. He has a massive arsenal, wields weapons that theoretically could not exist in a man-portable form, and even has wielded demon powers in some games.

On the other hand, Freeman is no slouch. He's athletic, decently armored in a way that might counteract some of The Marine's weapons (although, for the sake of this debate, I will assume the BFG works on him). He's got a wide arsenal, if not a particularly deadly one--still, he should prove more hassle than a mere cyberdemon.

More importantly, of course, Freeman is smart in a way that the Marine is not. Freeman isn't just a schlock with a big gun and lots of claw-absorbing muscle, he's a survivalist--he uses his environment and his smarts to defeat his enemies.

Plus, the Gravity Gun. He can use it to provide cover, to throw the Marine off, to crush him under a pile of junk...possibilities abound.

Then again...there's the BFG.

The BFG is easily the Marine's ace in the hole. It's a powerful spread-attack, unlike almost anything Freeman's encountered. One lucky shot could blow out most of Freeman's defenses, another could turn him into so much ash.

So it comes down to one question: could the Marine get off that sort of shot?

To which I answer: No.

For one thing, Freeman is good at conflict avoidance. He has demonstrated, throughout his series, a certain knack at not being in places where things are murdering him. He picks fights on his terms.

For another, the BFG's projectile (as of Doom 3) can be interrupted by a blast that takes out its chip casing. Almost any weapon in Freeman's arsenal could take it out. Alternately, Freeman could throw something at it with the Gravity Gun, reducing the ability of the Marine to get in a clear shot.

Finally, one shot wouldn't do the trick. It can't be much nastier than, say, a Strider blast--and that won't kill Freeman outright, usually. The Marine might not get a second one.

Anyway, without the BFG, I would say Freeman's greater tactical skills and diverse equipment would give him the edge. Advantage: The Free Man.

WINNER: Gordon Freeman

Alright, who's next?

chiasaur11
2009-06-03, 08:26 PM
I'd debate that call.

Well, the Doom 3 marine, sure.

The original though...

HE BLEW UP HELL!

Still, fun.

I'll think about this one.

Teams allowed?

Rutskarn
2009-06-03, 08:28 PM
Eh, I'd say probably no.

As far as the original Doom marine:

Well, Freeman DID blow up Xen, and topple the Combine domination of Earth.

chiasaur11
2009-06-03, 08:42 PM
Eh, I'd say probably no.

As far as the original Doom marine:

Well, Freeman DID blow up Xen, and topple the Combine domination of Earth.

Xen is a dimension, with near standard physics, food chains, etc. And if I remember right, he only split it from earth, not destroying it outright.

Really impressive, but not, you know, destroying a the supernatural home of evil itself with the closest thing to a supernatural entity on your side being a chainsaw that doesn't need fuel.

And for teams I was mainly thinking AI cyborg buddy acts, as some of the scraps I want to see would mostly be avoiding meatspace.

Fri
2009-06-04, 01:16 AM
The marine got that demonic artifact. As much as I like Freeman and used his name as my username for years, the marine can rip him into twain using his bare hands.

Rutskarn
2009-06-04, 09:33 AM
Are we talking about the Soulcube? Because he has to kill Freeman first for that to charge.

Any other artifacts are in the expansion pack, which doesn't have the regular Doom Marine in it.

Prime32
2009-06-04, 09:37 AM
I'd debate that call.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why this thread cannot work.:smallwink:

GoC
2009-06-04, 12:25 PM
#2: Gordon Freeman vs. a trained modern day sniper+invisibility

Gordon Freeman is walking along one day when a bullet speeds out of nowhere, passes through his brain and kills him.
Yes, I'm really lazy. Why do you ask?
Winner: Invisible modern day sniper.

chiasaur11
2009-06-04, 01:11 PM
#2: Gordon Freeman vs. a trained modern day sniper+invisibility

Gordon Freeman is walking along one day when a bullet speeds out of nowhere, passes through his brain and kills him.
Yes, I'm really lazy. Why do you ask?
Winner: Invisible modern day sniper.

Invisible Modern day Sniper has a bit of trouble, though, as Gordon's brother, John Freeman has sworn vengeance to live up to FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES.

Invisible Snipper shoots much fastest but John Freeman though he no has weapons punches so hard the air explodes?

The exploding kills the snipper's brane but then the combine revise the Snipper with Science and evil so him's a zombie Gohast but John Freeman said "Zombie Goats! I will revenge myself on you and live up to full life consequences!"

And then John Freeman used his lazer eyeness to see the invisible snipper was keepinged alive by combine puppet robot rays! So John Freeman got out his guns and killed with bullets!

But then the next boss appareded and John Freeman was Sad.

Rutskarn
2009-06-04, 04:37 PM
#2: Gordon Freeman vs. a trained modern day sniper+invisibility

Gordon Freeman is walking along one day when a bullet speeds out of nowhere, passes through his brain and kills him.
Yes, I'm really lazy. Why do you ask?
Winner: Invisible modern day sniper.

What did I tell you to do. What DID I tell you to do.

2.) You must go into detail in your fight summary. No one-line resolutions, no "This guy. Nuff said." Pick match-ups that warrant some consideration.

Read the manual!

Alright, I'm not abandoning this thread just yet. Remember, guys, feel free to debate a call, but propose a match-up of your own.

chiasaur11
2009-06-04, 05:31 PM
Alrighty, then.

Agree with the call on new Marine V. Freeman and such so...

Gordon Freeman Vs. Jones, Chief security officer of the USEC Marathon and, quite possibly destiny.

Now, either way this will be close. Both combatants are legendary one man armies with shadowy benefactors of dubious ethics, a species of philosophical allies rescued from slavery, and an assortment of human and exotic weaponry.

Now, Freeman's benefactor is considerably more mysterious, but a tad less helpful. If the Free Man messes up, he's ditched for a more suitable employee. Jone's benefactor is also Mercurial, but he seems a tad more likely to allow for error with random ally murder and general chaos being at worst given a minor reprimand and copious gifts of free ammunition.

Now, health and armor has to be taken as a consideration. The Marathon man has a shield system rechargeable at any power station up to triple strength. Freeman has a similar system. Both are well capable of taking a rocket to the face at full health, but Freeman has to have separate health charges, leading to a tad more durability but also a dependence on non renewable first aid packs and limited supply stations. The security officer also can back up his own existence with Pattern Buffers, as long as those things still are operative.

Now, weapons wise, Freeman has an edge not present in the previous two categories. Jones has, at maximum armament two pistols, two one shot dual barrel shotguns, an incredibly inaccurate assault rifle with grenade launcher attachment, one rocket launcher, an electrical system disrupting chargeable energy pistol, a rocket launcher, a flamethrower, a fairly accurate tommy gun with armor piercing flechettes, and an alien rapid fire weapon.

Freeman, however, has weapons with much better accuracy and presumably comparable firepower. The energy spheres on the dark energy pulse are disintegrators, and able to with repeated fire down some fairly nasty cyborgs.
Combine that with Freeman's ability to grab and turn back slower projectiles, and we have a few very heavy weapons for Freeman, even if he, unlike Jones, has a limited ammo capacity.

Considering both parties have access to teleportation, the fight is very likely to be in a comparatively neutral location. The resistance may have a few (breakable, sadly for the doc) of the weapons transporters from the White Forrest scrap, while Durandal, the (formerly...ish) mad AI that has the Marathon Security Officer under his thumb has a battleship capable of beaming ammo down to any surface location, making bullet conservation a minor issue for both parties, at least early in the fight. Later, if his supply system gets blown up Freeman might have cause for concern, but early on, no.

Now, if the fight starts at a distance, Freeman's odds are very, very good. The sniper crossbow outdistances everything the hero of Tau Ceti IV packs, and if he isn't moving, it's over. However, in the more likely event the two start with enough cover to close the gap to, oh, thirty feet, the fight gets a bit more frantic. Lets assume an abandoned Combine research station, with a decent amount of functional healing booths, energy power ups, turrets, headcrabs, etc. The fight would probably be alternating moments of intense violence and attempts to reach cover or medical supplies. Mid range would be Freeman's most of the time, between the better of the two pistols and his energy orbs he'd drop the officer to low health quickly, while the spine shattering punches and double shotguns of said officer would dominate close range.

With the greater ammo, slightly more helpful mysterious employer, and twin shotguns the officer probably could squeak out a win, but it's really a toss up, all depending on who plays it smarter. Now, the Officer alone is, despite probably being a cyborg killbot, a fair bit less of a genius than our MIT graduate pal Freeman, said Security Officer takes orders from an AI that can outwit whole fleets of an advanced alien race, and any other AI, with ease.

Freeman and the target fight with no-one phoning in orders, Freeman wins.

Durandal and anyone Freeman cares to phone a friend with manage to call in, Freeman... doesn't win.

Rutskarn
2009-06-04, 06:10 PM
Alright, that seems good.

Matchup #3: Jones vs. The Spy (Team Fortress 2)

This is a tricky match to calibrate, since Team Fortress 2 is a fairly abstract game system, while Jones comes from a fairly realistic setting. Many of The Spy's abilities are, arguably, only possible in the stylized universe of TF2. Disguises? Cloaking? Backstabs?

Let's assume the following. Disguises are completely useless in this case, since Jones knows The Spy is the only person within a large radius. The cloak, on the other hand, is full functional--as is the backstab.

Equipment-wise, let's assume a standard loadout for The Spy. The Dead Ringer or Cloak and Dagger would undoubtedly swing the match in The Spy's favor--as The Spy would be relatively unstoppable.

This fight would really depend on how well The Spy could get behind Jones--after all, if he just came out shooting, he would quickly be murdered to death.

Unfortunately for The Spy, Jones has infinite ammo, and can just keep spamming wildly. So, advantage, Jones.

Winner: Jones

The_JJ
2009-06-05, 12:49 AM
You do realize this is going to escalate fast. It's just a matter of time until someone mentions a Lvl 20 D&D wizard and then it's all over.

Matchup #4: Jones vs. Lobsang Ludd (Discworld) For fairness sake, pre-Personification of Time phase

Jones has the advanatges already mentioned, including all the trappings of hypermodern weaponry.

Lobsang Ludd is a mortal human with no armor, who fights with weapons (his fists) considered backwards in his own world, which is essentially Medival, with shadings of Magitek Victorian Era stuff. What gives him a fighting chance? He can stop time, or slice it to the degree where there is no difference. He can out run lighting.

More or less this boils down to whether or not Jones shoots before Lobsang start's slicing, and since we're assuming an Arena where the two combatants know they must face off, I'd say Lobsang has it.

Also, see my sig for another caveat to add before the 'Underdog always wins! Theory of Narrative Causality!' posts show up.

chiasaur11
2009-06-05, 01:12 AM
You do realize this is going to escalate fast. It's just a matter of time until someone mentions a Lvl 20 D&D wizard and then it's all over.

Matchup #4: Jones vs. Lobsang Ludd (Discworld) For fairness sake, pre-Personification of Time phase

Jones has the advanatges already mentioned, including all the trappings of hypermodern weaponry.

Lobsang Ludd is a mortal human with no armor, who fights with weapons (his fists) considered backwards in his own world, which is essentially Medival, with shadings of Magitek Victorian Era stuff. What gives him a fighting chance? He can stop time, or slice it to the degree where there is no difference. He can out run lighting.

More or less this boils down to whether or not Jones shoots before Lobsang start's slicing, and since we're assuming an Arena where the two combatants know they must face off, I'd say Lobsang has it.

Also, see my sig for another caveat to add before the 'Underdog always wins! Theory of Narrative Causality!' posts show up.

And Destiny gets his butt handed to him by time. Tough bit for destiny, but definitely believable.

Good fight, really. Two potential anthropromorphic personifiications duking it out with "only" basic gear and weapons.

And you're wrong. This will end with either Pun-Pun or Squirrel Girl.

Verruckt
2009-06-05, 02:43 AM
You do realize this is going to escalate fast. It's just a matter of time until someone mentions a Lvl 20 D&D wizard and then it's all over.

Matchup #4: Jones vs. Lobsang Ludd (Discworld) For fairness sake, pre-Personification of Time phase

Jones has the advanatges already mentioned, including all the trappings of hypermodern weaponry.

Lobsang Ludd is a mortal human with no armor, who fights with weapons (his fists) considered backwards in his own world, which is essentially Medival, with shadings of Magitek Victorian Era stuff. What gives him a fighting chance? He can stop time, or slice it to the degree where there is no difference. He can out run lighting.

More or less this boils down to whether or not Jones shoots before Lobsang start's slicing, and since we're assuming an Arena where the two combatants know they must face off, I'd say Lobsang has it.

Also, see my sig for another caveat to add before the 'Underdog always wins! Theory of Narrative Causality!' posts show up.

well yes, but I think Rutskarn's "generally equal in power level and similar in genre," clause prevents us from pitting a sci-fi gun totter against a fantasy time slicer.

In that mindset I present to you
Matchup #5: Jones vs. Frank Castle (The Punisher)

For the purposes of this fight I think we must assume that either men's benefactors do not come into play (Because Durandal is Durandal and well, Frank shot Microchip in the head a couple years back, he's really run out of benefactors.) We must also assume that the pattern buffers are out of commission, and that Frank's implied Deal with Death is no longer in effect.

The environment can be the arena or more preferably NYC herself, as firearm combat over 100 feet of open ground ends with everyone bleeding or dead in a hurry.

Jone's equipment has already been outlined, and Frank's encompasses any of the world's modern firearms, explosives, knives and other such sundries. Assault rifles and shotguns along with the occasional DMR are his classic lineup however.

The fight comes down to, I believe, skill and experience. Jones has more advanced equipment, and certainly more longevity given his shielding systems, but he lacks Frank's years upon years of practice at killing people. That is in fact Frank's only marketable skill, sure he's picked up some detective skills along the way, allowing him to track his prey, but his real calling is murdering folk, and he is damn good at it. Ambushes, sniper fire, shock and awe, torture, brutal melee combat and more are all tools in his arsenal and he will choose the right one given his opponent. He is, essentially, the Goddamn Batman of Death, and there are few better than him.

Verdict: In an Arena Jone's shields win him the day, but given any other environment and maybe a little of that all important Prep Time Frank carries the victory.

Winner: Frank Castle

chiasaur11
2009-06-05, 02:57 AM
Nice fight, probably a fair bet, and (Huzzah!) a step down in overall power level means the above post brings me good tidings of great joy and all that. Even find the overall outcome's perfectly believable, especially with mention caveats.

Still, as a serial nitpicker, I'd disagree on the experience a bit. Remember the cyborg killbot hints? Things implied Marathon's protagonist was a killing machine built of veteran troops, and then turned loose in a very nasty interplanetary war. Not saying Frank doesn't have MORE experience, just that the other guy is no slouch in that category.

darkblade
2009-06-05, 08:04 AM
In that mindset I present to you
Matchup #5: Jones vs. Frank Castle (The Punisher)


Winner: Frank Castle

Fighting low ranger superhero with low range superhero I give you.
Matchup #6: Frank Castle (The Punisher) vs. Molly Hayes (Princess Powerful, Bruiser)
Yes armed to the teeth hardened vetren who takes out low level supers on a moderately regular basis will lose to an 11 year old girl.

Well he will if she can pull up her super strength and invulnerability powers before he plugs her full of holes and can make it to where he is to punch him once before her powers wear off and she passes out.

I highly doubt anyone even someone as parinoid as Frank will assume that a tiny 11 year old girl who isn't with the X-Men after the decimation is going to be one of the 198 remaining mutants and that much of a threat. So most likely he will hesitate and get super punched into enough pain and possible internal bleeding that all he can do is stand there holding his gut for several hours.



Victory: Molly Hayes

WalkingTarget
2009-06-05, 10:27 AM
Fighting low ranger superhero with low range superhero I give you.
Matchup #6: Frank Castle (The Punisher) vs. Molly Hayes (Princess Powerful, Bruiser)
Yes armed to the teeth hardened vetren who takes out low level supers on a moderately regular basis will lose to an 11 year old girl.

Well he will if she can pull up her super strength and invulnerability powers before he plugs her full of holes and can make it to where he is to punch him once before her powers wear off and she passes out.

I highly doubt anyone even someone as parinoid as Frank will assume that a tiny 11 year old girl who isn't with the X-Men after the decimation is going to be one of the 198 remaining mutants and that much of a threat. So most likely he will hesitate and get super punched into enough pain and possible internal bleeding that all he can do is stand there holding his gut for several hours.



Victory: Molly Hayes

Didn't that already happen?

*checks*

Looks like it did (https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=108227).

chiasaur11
2009-06-05, 01:33 PM
And it was glorious.

darkblade
2009-06-05, 03:05 PM
Didn't that already happen?

*checks*

Looks like it did (https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=108227).

I am well aware that it did. If anyone argued I was gonna pull out the canon.

chiasaur11
2009-06-05, 03:24 PM
Written by Joss Whedon too, so that gets it a few more nerd points.

Still, I'd prefer a fight that hasn't been settled.

Verruckt
2009-06-05, 04:32 PM
That round goes to Molly much less because of any superior fighting skill and more because Ennis era Frank would rather point a gun at his own head than a little girl. And because Whedon, great though he may be, doesn't like the Punisher.

GoC
2009-06-05, 04:42 PM
That round goes to Molly much less because of any superior fighting skill and more because Ennis era Frank would rather point a gun at his own head than a little girl.
Wouldn't that apply to Castle from any era?

chiasaur11
2009-06-05, 05:02 PM
So Ruts, you want a fight against Castle or Hayes?

Got a couple either way. Just say the word. Thunderbird
What's the price forty twice.

Verruckt
2009-06-05, 05:07 PM
Wouldn't that apply to Castle from any era?

apparently not this one... but yes, I just tend to hold Ennis' Frank as the standard by which all others are to be judged, if only because he's not stupid. He's a ****ed in the head sociopath who enjoys killing people and it's only his own code of honor and the presence of people powerful enough to stop him that keep new york from becoming a bullet riddled hell hole. (well, more of a bullet riddled hell hole)


So Ruts, you want a fight against Castle or Hayes?

Got a couple either way. Just say the word. Thunderbird
What's the price forty twice.

Can we have both? I'd say Castle simply because Whedon already did the above fight and Vs. threads tend to be purely hypothetical.

chiasaur11
2009-06-05, 05:14 PM
Right.

To my extensive comic library for research!

(Note: I'm going to try to get a guy no more powerful than Freeman fully armed. No sense moving up too fast.)

Rutskarn
2009-06-06, 10:27 PM
Look forward to it, Chiasaur.

chiasaur11
2009-06-06, 10:40 PM
Narrowed it down to two candidates.

You want Deadshot or Death's Head?

Rutskarn
2009-06-06, 10:41 PM
Surprise us.

chiasaur11
2009-06-06, 11:10 PM
It might be a bit of a power jump, mind, but I should have a scrap by the end of tonight's Pushing Daisies, on at 10 on ABC, it is a great show and you should watch it just to mourn its passing.

And here we are. It is, as a matter of fact, a jump in power level about the same as the Hayes based alternative, but I had fun writing it.

The client refused to meet in person, a sadly common precaution in this business. Seems an unfortunate reputation had preceded me. I blame it on an impersonator. Dealt with him, but still takes a while to restore client trust. Still, the client was promising a good deal of money, and it's always a shame to pass that up, yes?

"It seems even godhood has its disadvantages. It seems a former employee of mine recently suffered an unfortunate fate at the hands of a local vigilante. There are a thousand methods currently at my disposal for exterminating this particular problem, but they all lack the flair for destruction on a personal level of the methods the death of my slave render impossible. I hear you are an expert at the personal touch. Are you interested, bounty hunter?"

Shame he wasn't here. Would like to more the correction a little more forceful.
"Freelance peacekeeping agent. Not a bounty hunter, yes? Name has a little more class to it. One more point."

"Fine. Indulge your petty mortal quandaries. They always have been amusing."

"Cash up front, hm?"

Frank Castle Vs. the #1 Freelance peace keeping agent in the Marvel universe, Death's Head!

Now, the fight is a bit tough on old Frank, even if he still has a fair chance. Death's head is a seven foot super strong "Freelance Peace Keeping Agent" (AKA killer for hire) and has a wide variety of weapons, but isn't invincible, or quite skilled as to make the difference between tough and invulnerable academic. A good hit from a rocket launcher could probably hurt him enough to all but guarantee a kill if followed up quickly. Still, we're talking a very powerful piece of bounty hunting hardware.

Now, both are capable of some very nasty tactics. Death's Head has, at least once, built a very good double of his body set up to detonate to clobber a potential enemy, but generally he seems to like a good up close and personal take down of a target. If Castle could figure out that quick enough, and went for the more "exotic" corners of his weapon cabinets, he might be able to pull a decisive win. On the other hand, if he figure the gigantic mechanoid as just another low rent supervillain of the sort he's been dealing with a lot lately in 616 rather than one of the best hired killers in the history of the galaxy, Frank is going to enter a world of pain. And sadly for Frank, the best anti Death's Head tactic, buying him off, would probably not work in this case. Godlike employers tend to pay better than non godlike ones.

I'm giving it to the tusk faced maniac mechanoid.

Death's Head wins.

Verruckt
2009-06-07, 01:46 AM
Well written, and I don't doubt your results, but it's involving a character I literally know nothing about:smalleek:.

chiasaur11
2009-06-07, 01:54 AM
Well, I happen to have a link (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QqxEzkl_lrA/R_1D_ppYRPI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/S72XqIR8gz8/s1600-h/high+noon+tex.jpg)to his first appearance, made strictly for legal property defense. Fun character, he had a whirlwind ride through Marvel's properties. Showed up in Transformers, moved on to antagonizing Doctor Who, ran into the Fantastic Four a couple of times...

Even got his own "What If?" A fun character. Shame that he got killed and replaced with a 90s-er version. Well, there's at least one of him left in the Marvel multiverse somewhere.