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Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 05:26 AM
I'm sure I've seen something like this before: a particular material which when you have at least 1 pound of it, it gives you SR 1. If you have someone standing next to you who also has a pound of it, you both have SR 2. With three people in a line, they all have SR 3, and so on. The end result is that it makes having large units of soldiers viable against enemies with fireball hurling wu jen without altering the balance of an adventuring party (whether that balance should be altered or not).

Does this seem like a reasonable thing to make available?
What would be a good name for it? I was thinking of 'obdurium', but I think that might have already been used for something.

Serpentine
2009-06-06, 05:36 AM
I can see some variety of cold iron - traditional protection from witches, fairies and other supernatural forces - being used for this. I think I like it. Would it go in a chain, though? Say, two people could be miles apart from each other, but as long as they have enough people in-between with this stuff it's as though they're next to each other? Doesn't make great sense to me, but not enough not-sense to bother me too much.

J.Gellert
2009-06-06, 05:59 AM
I'm not sure I like the idea of pounds stacking up SR (oh it can definitely be abused) but if you want just fluff, take a look at this (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Dimeritium).

If you make it actually shut down your own magic as well (items, buffs, etc) then it'll be harder to abuse.

Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 06:19 AM
It would work with people standing in a line, yes, although that would make it very easy to break them up and disrupt their protection.

How would you abuse it without using leadership, Fikraag?

Thanatos 51-50
2009-06-06, 06:41 AM
I'm sure I've seen something like this before: a particular material which when you have at least 1 pound of it, it gives you SR 1. If you have someone standing next to you who also has a pound of it, you both have SR 2. With three people in a line, they all have SR 3, and so on. The end result is that it makes having large units of soldiers viable against enemies with fireball hurling wu jen without altering the balance of an adventuring party (whether that balance should be altered or not).

Does this seem like a reasonable thing to make available?
What would be a good name for it? I was thinking of 'obdurium', but I think that might have already been used for something.

So, two Generic McFighters wearing full plate made out of the metal both have SR160?

Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 06:43 AM
No, they'd have SR 2. Assuming the metal is capable of being made into full plate, it might be more like lead or gold than iron.

Thanatos 51-50
2009-06-06, 06:44 AM
Okay, that's mych less easily-abused, and simultaneously, much less useful to adveturers.

Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 06:50 AM
That's the idea. :smallsmile:

Amiel
2009-06-06, 07:14 AM
Would a 'metal' ore mined from areas of dead magic that emanates a limited radius antimagic field be considered too powerful? It can be forged into a variety of miscellany and utilised in many ways; those 'bracers of magic imprisonment' (I forget their real name; Iron Bands of Bilarro?) that prevent magic users from casting spells could have been forged from the same metal.

Kornaki
2009-06-06, 07:47 AM
Would a 'metal' ore mined from areas of dead magic that emanates a limited radius antimagic field be considered too powerful? It can be forged into a variety of miscellany and utilised in many ways; those 'bracers of magic imprisonment' (I forget their real name; Iron Bands of Bilarro?) that prevent magic users from casting spells could have been forged from the same metal.

Then you could wear those bracers and give yourself immunity to magic. Rogues everywhere rejoice

Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 07:50 AM
Iron Bands of Bilarro are something you throw at someone and it wraps around them.

Anti-magic metal would be balanced only if it were very, very expensive, I think.

Amiel
2009-06-06, 08:25 AM
Then you could wear those bracers and give yourself immunity to magic. Rogues everywhere rejoice

But'd render all your other magic items worthless and you couldn't benefit from your team-mates' beneficence (magic healing and buffs) :p.
All classes despair....monsters rejoice!


Iron Bands of Bilarro are something you throw at someone and it wraps around them.

Wasn't there another item along these lines? Those shackles of somethingorother. Shackles of antimagic? or something, used by prison wardens to incapacitate their charges.


Anti-magic metal would be balanced only if it were very, very expensive, I think.

That is true, although something of only limited radius and which prevents your other magical splendor from working may reduce that expense somewhat.

As is, a SR of 2 or < 10 is somewhat useless, you need items that at least confer bonuses upon your CR; that is a SR of CR + x (where x designates a variable); ie CR + 12 a la devil SR. This is because caster levels to penetrate SR are further modified by d20, so even a wizard 1 is likely to penetrate SR 2, unless he or she repeatedly rolls 1s :).

Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 08:37 AM
Actually a Wizard 1 will always penetrate SR 2. 1s don't automatically fail caster level checks. SR 2 is completely useless unless you have something that increases existing SR instead of giving SR from scratch.

I think shackles of antimagic do exist, but I've got no idea what book they're in. I'd bet the Magic Item Compendium has something like it, though.

J.Gellert
2009-06-06, 08:45 AM
So in order for the bonus to add up, pieces of metal have to be carried by different individuals standing within 5 feet of each other?

Hm, alright, that may not be as easily abusable as making full plate out of it... but it's doesn't make sense to me. Does it have to be carried? What happens when you simply lay the pieces in a line on the ground - do people nearby get the bonus?

Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 09:03 AM
I'm thinking it needs to be close to a living being, on its own it's just metal that shows up strangely under detect magic or arcane sight.

Amiel
2009-06-06, 09:06 AM
Actually a Wizard 1 will always penetrate SR 2. 1s don't automatically fail caster level checks.

Yeah...although they really should have instituted spell failure automatic success and automatic failure clauses; that way it'd make things more interesting.
The wizard 1 could fail on a Concentration check (by having it broken) and thus cause the spell to fail that way or if he or she ever casts in conditions where the spell cannot be made to conform. Success and the relative 'inevitably' of success should scale as the character advances in power.


SR 2 is completely useless unless you have something that increases existing SR instead of giving SR from scratch.

Like you said, a wiz 1 is never going to fail a caster level check thus his positive numerical modifier is only going to scale up. Even stacking SR single digit modifiers in increments isn't going to be too useful, especially if the army wearing the armor is all clumped together, that's just crying out for a fireball or any other lower leveled spell, grease (1st level, doesn't allow SR), obscuring mist (1st level, doesn't allow SR), fog cloud (2nd level, doesn't allow SR), web (2nd level, doesn't allow SR).


I think shackles of antimagic do exist, but I've got no idea what book they're in. I'd bet the Magic Item Compendium has something like it, though.

I'm pretty sure they exist, although the name escapes me at the moment.

Dhavaer
2009-06-06, 09:09 AM
I think the name actually is 'shackles of antimagic'.

Amiel
2009-06-06, 09:25 AM
I think the name actually is 'shackles of antimagic'.
:)

Found them! It's true, the simplest and most fitting name is usually it.
They are in the Book of Exalted Deeds as antimagic shackles.
The manacles made from adamantine create an antimagic field out to a radius of 5 feet. They're worth 132,000 gp.

Arbitrarity
2009-06-06, 01:56 PM
It's basically a plot device, but it seems reasonable.

For some reason, I have this urge to recommend the 4e minion system for this.

Fluff....Say, it channels the willpower of those holding it to create a shield against magical effects, conferring SR of 1+1/holder within 10 squares of the user?

Asheram
2009-06-06, 05:17 PM
Heh. Reminds me a bit of the Malazan book of the Fallen series.
Otataral, a magic deadening metal that was created as a god was pulled from another dimension by a group of mages

Sometimes made into weapons but most often just ground into a powder and then added to a salve that you rub on your skin.

Harperfan7
2009-06-07, 03:43 PM
How about a metal that ignores magic all together, but can never be enchanted? For a weapon, that means it would always bypass magical defenses (short of blink or something where the caster isn't even there), but will pretty much never hurt a monster with DR/Magic?

I don't know what kind of effect armor made of this stuff would have though, maybe granting ac against magic touch attacks-rays-and so on?

Actually, I like this idea alot. How about it?

RS14
2009-06-07, 04:34 PM
The problem, as I see it, is that both SR and army size increase linearly as a function of wealth. Caster level increases linearly with level. With wealth increasing exponentially with level, you can give an army SR: enough.

For example, assume it costs 2000gp to field such a soldier. At 5th level, you can field an army with SR 4. Not terribly effective. But by 10th level, you can field an army with SR24. By 15th level, an SR of 100.

Of course, this will be slowed by characters being unwilling to spend all their gold on soldiers. This is reasonable. But the growth such a system as presented is still fundamentally unbalanced.

Rainbownaga
2009-06-09, 07:21 AM
Could make for an interesting campaign element- figuring out how to disrupt the army formations so that NPC warmages could take out chunks of enemy soldiers.

Maybe you could expand the ability to allow it to negate spells that normally ignore spell resistance such as those mentioned previously. It would be a little anticlimactic to have the enemy just grease/glitterdust/gate and obliterate them too quickly.


Reminds me of an idea I had (possibly saw on a forum years ago) about armies moving in tight formation not in spite of magic, but because of it, and their antimagic field-generators. The trick would be separating soldiers from said field.

Ellardin
2009-06-11, 06:37 AM
This concept is used in the Obsidian Trilogy , and I have anti-magic metal always interesting . I think that if you want to make this metal useful to everyone , you should look into maybe what different amounts of the metal would do ?

Ex. small amounts could metal to bestow 1-2 sr (until x number of spells are cast at the holder) , but other quantities would absorb magickal spells cast at those that are wearing/holding it . However , with each spell blasted into this metal , it would start deteriorating the metal itself , until only a fine useless pile of dust is at your feet .

I personally don't know how balanced this would be , but it would be better if someone scoped out rules for this concept , Or perhaps you would be interested in homebrewing different varieties of this metal , some more powerful than others .

If you have a high-magick campaign , mages would tremble if they saw vast amounts of people using this *eater of magick*

and when looking at price , yes this metal should be very expensive , and if you are playing in or near a mageocracy this metal should be illegal and outlawed , punishable by death -only the ruling mage's secret assasin service should be allowed to use it- (or maybe not your choice.)