PDA

View Full Version : meat sheild



Healos
2006-02-28, 12:47 PM
i wold like to make a meat shield prestige class, but i need some help i got some ideas like deflect trap, AC bones, can cast meatier Storm once a day... but i need more ideas for this. ;D

Gogo525
2006-02-28, 12:58 PM
Well they could get better bonuses for wearing heavier armor like lets say +3 for wearing heavy armor. +2 con at 10th level and D12 HD. The meatier storm is perfect for this class.

Meat Shield
2006-02-28, 01:39 PM
For some reason I thought I had to jump in on this thread ;)

Meatier storm? Getting an image of a giant meat grinder spewing out hamburger on your enemies....

Back to the topic: My first thought would be look at the dwarven defender PrC for ideas. After that, what kind of theme are you looking for? Massive hit points or armor class? Defense or offense specialist? I'd like a little more detail as to what you are looking for.

Douglas
2006-02-28, 02:04 PM
Besides puns like Meatier Storm, a meat shield's primary function is to be attacked/take damage so everyone else doesn't have to. Offensive capability is only necessary to give enemies a reason not to ignore the meat shield. Class features should all be purely defensive, allow the character to take damage for others similar to the Shield Other (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldOther.htm) spell, or force opponents to concentrate on him to the exclusion of everyone else.

Some suggestions:
d12 hit dice, of course
All saves good
Bad BAB - same as wizard or maybe even worse; I remember seeing a "Survivor" PrC in 3.0 that had no BAB at all.
AC bonuses
Energy resistances
Evasion
Mettle (same as evasion but for fort/will half or partial)
DR
SR
Cast Shield Other as a spell-like ability x/day
Special ability to force opponents to attack him (will save negates, DC 10 + class level + ability score modifier (cha?)), maybe start single-target and eventually change to an area - I think there's actually a feat for this one already called Taunt, in either Complete Adventurer or Complete Warrior IIRC; maybe give the feat and a special bonus to the DC
Can force enemies to stop moving with any AoO that deals damage, with maybe a reverse power attack option (-damage for +attack).

Imrix.
2006-02-28, 02:10 PM
Meat shield? Give the class awful at everything, but give it the ability to clone itself X times a day, and a maximum. Meatshields aren't meanto to survive, their meant to be an endless horde of awful troops!

Knifie_Sp00nie
2006-02-28, 02:11 PM
How about a swift-action ability to attract magical attacks? You could activate it and targeted rays, missiles, etc are drawn towards the meat shield.

Hurlbut
2006-02-28, 02:19 PM
don't forget to throw in Goad as an expertise ability. Heckle on your enemies to fight you instead of your friends.

EvilDave
2006-02-28, 02:33 PM
Can force enemies to stop moving with any AoO that deals damage

I know I've seen this before, but I'm not sure where. I think the ability was activated instead of dealing damage though.... couldn't say.

You might want to give him additionaly triggers for making AoOs. Also, if you are thinking to nerf his BAB I'd say give him Improved Aid Another at the very least.

You'd want Expertise and Dodge as requirements, not sure what else. As class features you may want to have Improved versions of those two feats.

Playing Warcraft, I can't help but think of a Mocking Blow special attack, can only be done while fighting defensively, deals no damage but forces opponent to attack you (could call it Goad if you didn't want the reference to be obvious ;)).

Meat Shield
2006-02-28, 02:51 PM
How about something like the deflect arrows feat, except that it can be done with weapons, not just an open hand. I would say that the ability to deflect any missile weapon aimed at an adjacent square might work. Only small or medium missiles to start, maybe larger sizes as the PrC progresses? And at the highest levels, maybe the ability to block magic ray attacks the same way?

I like the ability described that stops an enemy from moving past a Meat Shield if his AoO causes damage.

I still think the Dwarven Defender is a good start to something like this PrC.

Hurlbut
2006-02-28, 02:56 PM
How about something like the deflect arrows feat, except that it can be done with weapons, not just an open hand. *I would say that the ability to deflect any missile weapon aimed at an adjacent square might work. *Only small or medium missiles to start, maybe larger sizes as the PrC progresses? *And at the highest levels, maybe the ability to block magic ray attacks the same way?

I like the ability described that stops an enemy from moving past a Meat Shield if his AoO causes damage. *

I still think the Dwarven Defender is a good start to something like this PrC.
I think there was something similar like that in Dragon magazine, shieldbearer I think, using your shield to deflect arrows.

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-02-28, 05:26 PM
I know I've seen this before, but I'm not sure where. *I think the ability was activated instead of dealing damage though.... couldn't say.
That would be the Stand Still feat from Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Using the feat does not deal damage, but the damage you would have done instead modifies the DC to resist the effect. *So you gotta ask yourself if you want to do damage or stop movement before you make the AoO.

EDIT: It's also in the "Psionic Feats" section of the SRD (though it doesn't require any psionic ability to use): Stand Still (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicFeats.html#stand-still)

waffle
2006-02-28, 07:15 PM
I see no reason for this to be a PrC. Why not add Rich's Tools of the Trade (http://www.giantitp.com/Func0004.html) fighter feats to a fighter? Specialize in heavy armor and soak up the hits.

Maxymiuk
2006-02-28, 07:39 PM
Meat shield? Give the class awful at everything, but give it the ability to clone itself X times a day, and a maximum. Meatshields aren't meanto to survive, their meant to be an endless horde of awful troops!

That's cannon fodder you're thinking about. Also known as shock troops.

McBish
2006-02-28, 08:50 PM
How about bonuses to fighting defensely and total defense, like a theif-acrobat. I know that when I play the meatsheild I often just move up and use one of these two.

Seraph
2006-02-28, 09:22 PM
Meat shield? Give the class awful at everything, but give it the ability to clone itself X times a day, and a maximum. Meatshields aren't meanto to survive, their meant to be an endless horde of awful troops!


nah, that's redshirts. meatshields are the ones that never die.

Douglas
2006-02-28, 09:52 PM
nah, that's redshirts. meatshields are the ones that never die.
Yeah, meatshields are the guys that never seem to actually accomplish anything but just ... plain ... won't ... DIE, no matter what the bad guys do to them. The good ones also have a habit of getting in everybody's way all the time - everybody except their friends, that is.

Blues
2006-02-28, 11:06 PM
I thought meatshields were the ones that stand there and soak up the hits while everyone else wails away at the enemy?

IN MMORPGESE:

Tanks draw aggro while others do DoT and major DPS, and still others buff, debuff, and heal. :P

AmoDman
2006-02-28, 11:36 PM
Ever seen Dwarven Defender? Defensive Stance, Extra Ac, Uncanny Dodge, DR, high BAB, pretty decent saves (fort/will good, ref bad), Guy's a beast...

Suzaku
2006-03-01, 03:25 AM
Meat shield? Give the class awful at everything, but give it the ability to clone itself X times a day, and a maximum. Meatshields aren't meanto to survive, their meant to be an endless horde of awful troops!

That's not meatshield thats cannon fodder!

Imrix.
2006-03-01, 05:38 AM
Same thing in my opinion, I think of what you're talking about as a 'sponge.

Gogo525
2006-03-01, 10:14 AM
Wait.... I have seen a class like this before... its in a prestige class book that my friend has. I will get that from him and post it either later today or early tomorrowfor some major ideas.

Meat Shield
2006-03-01, 10:17 AM
The toughness and diehard feats would also be of great use to any MeatShield PrC. Bonus feats as you go up, say first level is toughness then level four or five gets diehard? Get toughness again at levels five and ten?

StarWarz2
2006-03-01, 11:48 AM
Sounds very much like the Body Guard PrC from Complete Warrior without the extra fluff.

I even think it has the AoO to stop movement ability, but do't quote me on that one. I've not read it in a long time and don't have access to my CW from here (being at work and all).

Pretty good class. Might want to look at it and use it as a basis for modifications.

You're looking to make a class similar to what the Warrior can do from WoW, aren't you?

Healos
2006-03-01, 01:05 PM
i'm thinking like
HD D12
good saves
good BAB
DR 10
deflect trap every 2 lvls you get +1/1st +2/2nd +3/4th... you would roll a D20+CON+deflect trap bounes(in this case +1)

when in combat if you more 15f.t. or more you will get an AC bounes. every 3 lvl +1/1st +2/3rd +3/6th +4/9th +5/12th +6/15th

and if any one that in your party or helping your party get damaged sheild other atomaticly get casted and you get the damage

ability boost every 3 lvls 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th and 15th to any ability add 1 point every 3 lvls till 15th

at 15th lvl resrecte self if you die you atuo resrecte your self

but i need more

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-03-01, 02:48 PM
What's been said that I agree with:

d12 hit die
good saves across the board
evasion
mettle
dr

This is a good start. Douglas had the idea of adding and advancing upon the Goad feat, which I also like.

What I'd like to add to the mix is a full attack progression and that the pre-req feats would be Combat Expertise, Allied Defense, and the aforementioned Goad. After all, in the end the only thing that matters to a bodyguard is keeping the client safe, even if you have to get creamed to do it.

With Combat Expertise and Allied Defense, up to 5 points of your your BAB turns into dodge bonus AC for you and all adjacent allies. With Improved Combat Expertise as a class bonus feat, by the time you hit level 20 you can scrap all your BAB for a +20 dodge bonus to the whole party's hp. Goad, and some way to enahance it, is great because you'd much rather force your opponant's hand and make them strike at you instead of the party arcane casters. I'd suggest pilfering the tactical fighter's interpose (sp) ability for this prc too.

Mike_G
2006-03-01, 06:21 PM
The Fighter with the right feat selection works perfectly for this. I don't see the need for a new or special class.

Get the Sword and Fist supplement, new feats such as Hold The Line, and so on.

With as many bonus feats as a Fighter gets, you should be able to build a defensive powerhouse to keep the baddies off the rest of the party.

TimeWizard
2006-03-01, 07:34 PM
I like all the ideas presented here... well, not all of them.
1.) No one who could be reffered to as a "meat sheild" should have a high will save. That reflects mental prowess and discipline. Skull bashing tends to lower that...
2) I'll spot you the high reflex save. I wouldnt say to do it with the full plate ability, but i wont rule it out.
3) No one shold be allowed to cast resurect unless they're an accomplished spell caster. No one shoul EVER be allowed to cast it on them self.
D12
Def. Toughness and Diehard as feats.

Second Wind: You gain back 2 HP/ Character level and +2 con for 1+d4 rounds.

There was a PrC ability from oriental adventures, Something along the lines of if a projectile passed by a square you threaten (not aimed at you), you get a chance to smack it with your weapon to save your comrades.

Go damage reduction, and spell resistance.

3/4 BAB

Leperflesh
2006-03-01, 07:44 PM
Should be armed with one of these:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1126919321 ;start=0#0

/shameless self-promotion

-Lep

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-03-01, 08:05 PM
If someone were to even CONSIDER putting their lives in your hands, you most certainly would have a high will save. If you couldn't keep your mind under lockdown, all you are is a weapon to be used against the beings in your charge. A bodyguard, correction a GOOD bodyguard, is more than justa sack of meat dumped in front of another. Look at the secret service for example, they may not be the most massive beings but they are highly trained and focused.

Julia
2006-03-01, 08:26 PM
If someone were to even CONSIDER putting their lives in your hands, you most certainly would have a high will save. If you couldn't keep your mind under lockdown, all you are is a weapon to be used against the beings in your charge. A bodyguard, correction a GOOD bodyguard, is more than justa sack of meat dumped in front of another. Look at the secret service for example, they may not be the most massive beings but they are highly trained and focused.

To me, though, that runs contrary to the definition of "meat shield". Of course, to me, "meat shield" has always been a negative term applied primarily to warriors (in EverQuest) but also to other tanks, which implied stupidity. A clever bodyguard is another type of bodyguard altogether.

However, I could support a high will save on the ground that being a meat shield requires a high degree of stubbornness.

I'm iffy on the high reflex save myself. Oddly, even though where I played in EverQuest, the tanks were mostly elves (due to everyone being elves), I have this image of a "meat shield" being a massive (both in muscle and fat), tall, stupid, slow warrior.

ShneekeyTheLost
2006-03-01, 08:45 PM
Here's some suggestions:

-D12 hit die. Average (cleric) BAB. High Fort save, low reflex and will.

-Gains Shield Other as a spell-like ability usable X/day
-Gains an ability to negate any effect with a partial fort save with a sucessful saving throw.
-Gains a ranged attack attraction where any missile that flies within 5' of the meat shield hits him instead. This area increases by 5' every other level to a max of 25'
-Is able to suck up an area effect, but is affected by it a number of times equal to the allies in the area of effect. So if him and three buddies were in the area, he gets hit for quad effect.
-Is able to use an Intimidate check to enrage an opponent to attack/target him to the exlusion of anyone else.
-will not die until he goes down to negative max hps. So a meat shield with 120 hps can still function down to -120, but anything below 0 functions like the Dieheard feat.
-immune to charm/compulsion effects that force the meat shield to target his allies.

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-03-02, 05:41 AM
Hmm. Upon further reflection, I'd agree that a decent reflex save and evasion are out of character, I still stand by the fort/will saves and mettle however.

Healos
2006-03-02, 09:46 AM
Here's some suggestions:

-D12 hit die. Average (cleric) BAB. High Fort save, low reflex and will.

-Gains Shield Other as a spell-like ability usable X/day
-Gains an ability to negate any effect with a partial fort save with a sucessful saving throw.
-Gains a ranged attack attraction where any missile that flies within 5' of the meat shield hits him instead. This area increases by 5' every other level to a max of 25'
-Is able to suck up an area effect, but is affected by it a number of times equal to the allies in the area of effect. So if him and three buddies were in the area, he gets hit for quad effect.
-Is able to use an Intimidate check to enrage an opponent to attack/target him to the exlusion of anyone else.
-will not die until he goes down to negative max hps. So a meat shield with 120 hps can still function down to -120, but anything below 0 functions like the Dieheard feat.
-immune to charm/compulsion effects that force the meat shield to target his allies.


i like were this is geting...

i like the deflect arrows alot, or howabout deflect trap

EvilDave
2006-03-02, 02:57 PM
Autores: Broken
Diehard to negative max hp: Broken
Able to soak an aoe: Broken

Those three abilities just allow for too much....

That said, some nifty looking stuff's been posted here, so I'm gonna try to piece something together.

TimeWizard
2006-03-02, 03:34 PM
If someone were to even CONSIDER putting their lives in your hands, you most certainly would have a high will save. If you couldn't keep your mind under lockdown, all you are is a weapon to be used against the beings in your charge.

Then shouldn't everyone in the party have a high will save? no. Fighter's don't because, although they are resolved against the fears of combat, the do NOT possess mental fortitude. You don't see them turn tail and run like a coward do you? Wizards, Clerics, Monks, they have a common theme... Wizards and Clerics rely on their minds heavily, where as monks usually acheive a strong will from years of rigid codes and meditation. Just because you don't want the man with a sheild to run away doesn't mean he should have a high will save.

Besides, a Will save is a symbol of how powerful and controlled/discipplined a mind is. A mental battle against a wizards intrusion is the best example. I don't see that AT ALL.

EvilDave
2006-03-02, 05:08 PM
Meat Shield, The
This is a person who knows his role well, and accepts it. *He is noone push around and is always the last to retreat. *Generally very loyal, be it to a person or cause, they do however despise being manipulated and will respond to deceptive actions in a very martial manner.

Requirements:
Alignment: Non-Chaotic
BAB: +8
Proficiency with all martial weapons and with heavy armor and shields.
Combat Expertise
Endurance
Improved Initiative
Concentration, 4 ranks
Sense Motive, 4 ranks

Meat Shield, The gains no additional proficiency with any weapons or armor.
HD: d12
The meat shield, the's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con) Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Swim (Str).


BAB *F//R//W * Special
1 +0 +2/+0/+2 *Die-Hard, Form of Metal
2 +1 +3/+0/+3 *DR 1/-, Improved Grapple
3 +2 +3/+1/+3 *Trap Sense +1, Mocking Blow
4 +3 +4/+1/+4 *Shield Other (1/day), Improved Expertise
5 +3 +4/+1/+4 *DR 2/-, Will of Metal
6 +4 +5/+2/+5 *Trap Sense +2, Nobody's Pincushion
7 +5 +5/+2/+5 *Shield Other (2/day), Directed Intent
8 +6 +6/+2/+6 *DR 3/-, Flawless Guard
9 +6 +6/+3/+6 *Trap Sense +3,
0 +7 +7/+3/+7 *Shield Other (3/day), Deathless Resolve

Diehard: *As the feat of the same name. *If you already have Diehard you may instead gain any feat from the Fighter feats list that you meet the requirements for.

Form of Metal: You receive no movement penalties for wearing medium or heavy armor. *You receive no encumbrance penalties while carrying under max load. *You do not receive the normal -2 to attack rolls while using a tower shield and can use a tower shield to grant cover to an adjacent ally (yourself not included), though the ally gains a -4 penalty to melee attacks, you must forego all attacks as normal and neither of you get the shield's bonus to AC. *In addition, if you have the Spring Attack feat you may use it as normal in heavy armor.

Improved Grapple: You gain the feat Improved Grapple even if you do not meet the requirements.

Trap Sense: *As the rogue ability, gives a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 at 6th level and +3 at 9th level. *Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

Mocking Blow: *As a standard action, make an attack roll at your highest BAB against an opponent. *If it hits, rolll damage normally but instead of your opponent taking damage, they instead must make a Will save vs DC 10 + damage rolled. *If they fail, for one round they cannot take any targetted action unless that target is you (this includes melee/ranged attacks and targetted spells, any aoe spell or personal range spell is unnafected). *This is a non-magical compulsion effect.

Shield Other(su): As the divine spell of the same name with the following exceptions: takes a standard action to invoke that does not provoke AoO, duration is based on class levels in MS,T, range is fixed at 25 feet, does not require v/s components but focus is the same. *Note that it can be active multiple times simultaneously as long as each target is different. This does not in any way stack with the divine equivalent. If a target is the beneficiary of Shield Other from two sources, benefit is gained from the one cast with the highest class level.

Improved Expertise: *The only limit on the amount of attack you can sacrifice to gain AC while fighting defensively is only limited by your BAB.

Will of Metal: *You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Will saves against fear affects. *You may, at your option, decide before the save is rolled to substitute a Concentration check for a will save. *Any time a compulsion affect would cause you to act against anyone to whom you've declared loyalty (generally the 'party' or the organization you martially support) you are immediately granted a will save (even if one is not normally allowed). *Success suppresses the effect (does not cancel) for one round, during which you have free action. *This round counts towards the duration of the effect.

Nobody's Pincushion(su): Any shield wielded by a MS,T is considered to have the persistent (cannot be deactivated) ability Arrow Catching except the deflection bonus is increased to +2.

Directed Intent: *During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +2 deflection bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent and a +1 circumstance bonust to attacks against that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.

Flawless Guard: *You can no longer be flanked. *You lose all benefit of this ability if you are denied your Dexterity bonus to AC with respect to any oppenent threatening you.

Deathless Resolve: If reduced to -1 or fewer hitpoints you can still take a full action or strenous action without loss of hit points. *In addition, if reduced to -10 or fewer hitpoints you can remain funcional for a number of rounds equal to your constitution bonus. If when reduced to -10 hit points you receive benefit from any healing effect, you immediately 'lose resolve' and are exhausted. *You automatically make any Fortitude save vs. death caused by massive damage.


Not sure how balanced it is, but it takes a bit for a straight fighter to get into.

Edit: *Changed the requirements a little (lowered ranks needed in skills, added BAB req), took out Adamant Form (a little too damned handy), and added the save bit to Deathless Resolve (which I had originally intended to have in there, but forgot), and explicitly stated no Shield Otherx2.

ShneekeyTheLost
2006-03-02, 05:30 PM
Take out Adamant Form. It's overpowered for the class and unnecessary.


Mocking Blow: As a standard action, make an attack roll at your highest BAB against an opponent. If it hits, rolll damage normally but instead of your opponent taking damage, they instead must make a Will save vs DC 10 + damage rolled. If they fail, for one round they cannot take any targetted action unless that target is you (this includes melee/ranged attacks and targetted spells, any aoe spell or personal range spell is unnafected). This is a non-magical compulsion effect.

I still say an intimidate check as a standard action to cause one opponent to target you would be an easier way to handle this. Perhaps as a higher-level effect you could set it up to affect multiple opponents at a higher DC check.

Meat Shield
2006-03-02, 05:41 PM
Evil Dave: Looks pretty good. I like the flavor you have instilled in it, feels right.

Balance-wise, I think it may be slightly overpowered, but it is not one thing that makes me think that. Let me think on it for a minute.

Couple questions:
1) Could the shield other ability stack with a ring of Friend Shield or with the actual spell Shield Other. Example: MeatShield activiates his power of Shield Other, then next round activates his Ring of Friend Shield. Would the mage he is defending only receive 1/4 the damage, giving the other 3/4 to the MeatShield?

2) I think ranks in Intimidate would also be a good prereq for this class, not so much from a mechanics perspective but for a "I'm the bodyguard you do NOT want to mess with." flavor reason.

Definitely something that can be worked with, good job!

EDIT: spelling and grammar

EvilDave
2006-03-02, 05:54 PM
I was thinking Adamant Form might be too much... but I wanted something along the lines of Fortification. Maybe just light fortification?

For Mocking Blow I basically copied and pasted Stand Still and changed a couple words.

They way it's down right now, with the exception of Mocking Blow it's a somewhat passive class, I didn't want to require ranks in intimidate. As it stands, a straight fighter with 12 or 13 int is going to be using all his skill points up to 7th level in cc skills to get into this thing. I was also thinking about just having Diehard as an additional requirement, which would allow for the abilities to be a bit more spread out, but so far I haven't.

Multiple Shield Other effects wouldn't stack. The reason I kept the same name as the spell was to reflect this. It effectively is the spell, but as a supernatural ability so as not to require casting ability (like spell mastery, only without the original spell), so some of the numbers were fixed (range) but I still wanted the duration to increase with level.

I also recognize that this class would take a good lot to keep track of as it gets a number of bonuses to a great many rather separate things (could be a problem in the hands of a player who likes to keep 'selective' track of things and a DM who doesn't get very familiar with the class beforehand). But the whole thing is that this guy's supposed to be able to do a LOT with respect to taking damage of many sorts from different sources.

Meat Shield
2006-03-02, 11:29 PM
Yeah, I agree Adamant Form is probably a litlle much. You've already got Flawless Guard in there to get rid of sneak attacks. But for criticals, sometimes the guard does take a shot right between the eyes.

For the shield other, thats what I thought, but felt it should be explicitly stated.

I still think Intimidate should be in there, but see your reasoning. However, I could see lowering the cc skill reqs down a rank or two, and making a minimum BAB of +6 a requirement, to reflect an ability to protect oneself AND someone else at the same time (using the two attacks the character would recieve).

EvilDave
2006-03-03, 09:58 AM
Changed a little as per input.

Just because I think lvl 6 is a little early for this thing, I made the BAB req +8 but it's still less intensive to get into. Thinking about it, this thing would be great for a Psychic Warrior. They get Concentration as a class skill, if not sense motive, but their 3/4 BAB means they wouldn't meat the req's till 11th level unless you went 6 PW/4 Fighter or 4 PW/5 Fighter. Also not a bad class for (ex) Paladin, but it's not a Holy Mighting PrC, so no more pally levels for you.

Meat Shield
2006-03-03, 10:27 AM
I like the changes Evil Dave. Looks very good now. I give my stamp of approval. ;D

Matter of fact, I may have to use it on one or two of my BBeGs bodyguards now, heh heh heh.

EvilDave
2006-03-03, 01:04 PM
ooh.... MS,T as an NPC... Evil :D


The players will try to flank the bastard, to no effect. Ballistic ranged attacks will have a very difficult time. Anything involving a Fort save they likely won't try anyway, and anything involving a a Will save won't be much better (skills depending), so all the easy-out magiks are out. Main melee guy's gonna have it tough as well, especially as expertise (required) leads well into trip/disarm.

Yep, high level MS,T's gonna mess em up.

You've got my stamp of approval ;)

StarWarz2
2006-03-03, 02:16 PM
Man, that class rocks. :D

Hmmm.... I really can't wait until my players get to a point where they run into one of these ... plus some other nastiness at the same time.

Imagine, the BBEG mage has one of these, plus a rogue or ranger as the other bodyguard? Evilness has a new protection method.

Meat Shield
2006-03-03, 02:31 PM
Now that I have said I like the PrC a lot, it is now time to throw out ideas for defeating it. As pointed out, high fort and will saves, so many typical spells are out. So on to spells without saves and ray attacks.

Low level stuff like magic missile, ray of enfeeblement (love that one) and scorching ray hit for full effect. Fireball if you hit the MS and the BBeG at the same time would actually cause potentially 150% damage to the MS if the shield other is in effect, or 200% or 250% if he is shielding more than one person. Ouchie.

Spells damaging abilities are not affected by the MS either, so you can still go around him with those spells to the BBeG, and you can always summon something right behind the BBeG.

EDIT: spelling

ShneekeyTheLost
2006-03-03, 05:27 PM
Drop Sense Motive as a prerequsite. It's got little to nothing to do with the class. He's a meat shield, he doesn't need to be able to detect lies, he just stands there and gets hit.

Exchange Sense Motive for Intimidation and you'll have a more interesting class.

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-03-03, 08:13 PM
Then shouldn't everyone in the party have a high will save? no. Fighter's don't because, although they are resolved against the fears of combat, the do NOT possess mental fortitude. You don't see them turn tail and run like a coward do you? Wizards, Clerics, Monks, they have a common theme... Wizards and Clerics rely on their minds heavily, where as monks usually acheive a strong will from years of rigid codes and meditation. Just because you don't want the man with a sheild to run away doesn't mean he should have a high will save.

Besides, a Will save is a symbol of how powerful and controlled/discipplined a mind is. A mental battle against a wizards intrusion is the best example. I don't see that AT ALL.

The problem with your line of thought is that this isn't just some fighter type. This is a person who has trained specifically to protect the person/people in their charge from all possible threats. Just because a person is focused on a physical profession one should not doubt that such an individual is incapable of the feats of mental fortitude of a spellcaster. If such were the case, the monk is all wrong.

Spriteless
2006-03-03, 11:01 PM
Being willing to take a hit for someone unflinchingly takes mental fortitude. Being able to break adamantine with your fist does too. But the whole point of the monk is all about sharpening every aspect of themselves including mind. Most fighter types don't spend free time meditating, or get the instant feedback of a spell fizzling should their train of thought waver. A fighter with high wisdom will have better will saves than a wizard at first, but the wizard has more exercize, by the nature of his profession. Fighter can still take Iron Will and such to keep ahead for awhile, but the wizard eventually takes the lead by virtue of staring down the patterns of reality itself and winning. Saying a some fighers have that kind of mental resolve is like saying there are wizards who can beat up high level fighters without magic.

I'm getting off topic here. Sorry.

Yay! Meatshield! *hits meatshield* That did nothing.

Good job Dave.

Kord
2006-03-04, 12:10 AM
How about a -4 bonus to intelligence for choosing this class? ;D

Bronzeevil
2006-03-04, 04:48 AM
Meatier storm = munchkin card. Not munchkin player. Card game munchkin. Double damage to vegans :P

If you keep ressurect self, then make it usable only once per day, if it isn't already. Maybe once per month, given how useful it is to a meatshield.

Adding on to what TheMeatShield posted, what about Hellball? The BBeG could be left defenceless in one round... And seince you take backlash damage, could your own meatshield protect you from that?

Whatever. Looks like a fun class to play... "Ha! Your BBeG did 1% of my hp in damage with his critical!"

Oh, and how many levels of this could you take? Max 15?

Pop Goes the Weasel
2006-03-04, 01:36 PM
What about the Dwarven Defender?

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-03-04, 02:00 PM
Being willing to take a hit for someone unflinchingly takes mental fortitude. Being able to break adamantine with your fist does too. But the whole point of the monk is all about sharpening every aspect of themselves including mind. Most fighter types don't spend free time meditating, or get the instant feedback of a spell fizzling should their train of thought waver. A fighter with high wisdom will have better will saves than a wizard at first, but the wizard has more exercize, by the nature of his profession. Fighter can still take Iron Will and such to keep ahead for awhile, but the wizard eventually takes the lead by virtue of staring down the patterns of reality itself and winning. Saying a some fighers have that kind of mental resolve is like saying there are wizards who can beat up high level fighters without magic.

I'm getting off topic here. Sorry.

Yay! Meatshield! *hits meatshield* That did nothing.

Good job Dave.


It's not off topic since we are debating the merit of one of the aspects of the class.

Granting a good will save to a prc that will be seeing many fighters among their among their number doesn't put said fighters on a par with monk nor magi on will saves. The aforementioned fighters still need to slog through 9 levels before they can even switch classes, putting them well behind. They may not be facing the nature of the universe on a daily basis, but they are some of the most focused and aware among the physically oriented folks out there, folks who would (by virtue of mental preparation) throw themselves into the path of certain death on reflex alone.

Cobrateen2000
2006-03-04, 06:49 PM
First of all, you should build it up like the Warhulk from Minitures Handbook. Instead of a ability boost to strength, go with constitution. Then use some abilities that have already been mentioned.

Also, come see my thread, classes that should exist but don't. I have a dexterity inclined Warhulk that you might want to see. You can also put the Meatsheild there.