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View Full Version : Base Class: The Engineer [3.5; PEACH]



Lappy9000
2009-06-09, 12:06 PM
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs45/300W/i/2009/161/c/2/steamtech_by_nicop1.jpg
-An engineer totes his specialized dynamo cannon.

Image by nicop1 (http://nicop1.deviantart.com/)

Engineers are quite common in the world, their profession being to fix problems, be it a broken siege engine, a disabled construct, or a horde of rampaging orcs. Wielding the powers of innovation, engineers don't see themselves as spell casters, instead, they find themselves more akin to the ideal version of the working man. However, you won't likely find an engineer in any old blacksmith's shop; engineers are born for a greater purpose than to have their talents wasted on manipulating guilds and mundane craftsmen.
Adventurers: Most engineers take up the mantle of an adventurer to truly test their talents in the field. Essentially scientists in a largely uneducated world, engineers feel that their unique talents and skills are best spent exploring the greatest challenges that the world has to offer.
Characteristics: Engineers are united by a love of creation and inventive, and very quick minds. Their intelligence allows them to be as skilled as any rogue, and their prowess in craftsmanship can be utilized to greater success on the battlefield.
Alignment: While some engineers feel that a lawful mind is required to grasp the complex processes of creation, engineers come from all backgrounds and can be of any alignment.
Background: While true engineers rarely spend time in shops in towns, budding young engineers may very well have done so before they realized their true potential. Often, these engineers will be discovered by a manipulating wizard who would seek to use the engineer's talents to further the study of the arcane arts.
Races: All races have a place for engineers, although human, half-elf, gnome, and kobold engineers are the most common.
Other Classes: In combat, an engineer can fill a variety of roles, depending on their vocation, be it relying on their skills or superior modes of mobility. Engineers are especially useful in parties that have construct members such as warforged or soulstitched, as an engineer can repair damage upon the constructs much more efficiently than a cleric or druid can.

The Engineer
Engineers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Intelligence is crucial for the engineer's vast list of skills, as well as their ability to innovate. Other abilities depend on the engineer's vocations. Dexterity is helpful for dynamo cannon specialization, while Strength is best for mecharmor, and Wisdom for surveyors.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6
Starting Gold: 5d4 ×10 (125 gp)

Table: The Engineer
{table=head] Level |
BAB | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save |
Special | Speed Bonus | Innovation
1st | +0 |
+1 |
+0 |
+2 | Crafter Extraordinaire, Makeshift Prowess, Precision +1 | — |
2

2nd | +1 |
+1 |
+0 |
+3 | Vocation | — |
4

3rd | +2 |
+2 |
+1 |
+3 | Precision +2 | — |
6

4th | +3 |
+2 |
+1 |
+4 | Vocation | +5 ft. |
8

5th | +3 |
+3 |
+1 |
+4 |Minor Forging | +5 ft. |
10

6th | +4 |
+3 |
+2 |
+5 | Vocation | +10 ft.|
12

7th | +5 |
+3 |
+2 |
+5 | Precision +3 | +10 ft. |
14

8th | +6/+1 |
+4 |
+2 |
+6 | Vocation | +15 ft. |
16

9th | +6/+1 |
+4 |
+3 |
+6 | Greater Forging | +15 ft. |
18

10th | +7/+2 |
+5 |
+3 |
+7 | Vocation | +20 ft.|
20

11th | +8/+3 |
+5 |
+3 |
+7 | Precision +4 | +20 ft. |
22

12th | +9/+4 |
+6 |
+4 |
+8 | Vocation | +25 ft.|
24

13th | +9/+4 |
+6 |
+4 |
+8 | Improvised Mage | +25 ft. |
26

14th | +10/+5 |
+6 |
+4 |
+9 | Vocation | +30 ft.|
28

15th | +11/+6/+1 |
+7 |
+5 |
+9 | Precision +5 | +30 ft.|
30

16th | +12/+7/+2 |
+7 |
+5 |
+10 | Vocation | +35 ft. |
32

17th | +12/+7/+2 |
+8 |
+5 |
+10 | Supreme Forging | +35 ft. |
34

18th | +13/+8/+3 |
+8 |
+6 |
+11 | Vocation | +40 ft.|
36

19th | +14/+9/+4 |
+9 |
+6 |
+11 | Precision +6 | +40 ft.|
38

20th | +15/+10/+5 |
+9 |
+6 |
+12 | Mobile Fortress, Vocation | +45 ft.|
40[/table]

Class Skills
The engineer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Forgery (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (architecture/engineering) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6+Int Modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6+Int Modifier.

Class Features
All the following are class features of the engineer.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Engineers are proficient with the club, dagger, handaxe, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, light hammer, light pick, repeating heavy crossbow, and repeating light crossbow. Engineers are proficient with light and medium armor, but not with any shields.

Crafter Extraordinaire (Ex): Few can match the engineer's artifice when creating objects both magical and mundane. At 1st level, an engineer adds his engineer level to all Craft and Profession checks. In addition, items created by an engineer gain a bonus to Hardness equal to the engineer's Precision bonus. However, to gain this bonus, an engineer must expend his entire pool of Innovation while crafting the item.

Additionally, masterwork weapons crafted by an engineer are extremely efficient, weighing 1/3 less than normal. Furthermore, repeating crossbows made by an engineer can hold twice as many crossbow bolts as normal.

Innovation (Ex): Many abilities of an engineer's vocation and forging (see below) are powered by his ability to rapidly innovate and improve upon an object's design. An engineer receives innovation points in the amount listed on the table, plus his Intelligence modifier, on a daily basis. An engineer must rest uninterrupted for 8 hours to recharge this amount.

Makeshift Prowess (Ex): Engineers are adept at making something from nothing, and regularly utilize tools such as wrenches, drills, and shovels as weaponry. An Engineer can wield an improvised weapon as if he were proficient with it, and does not take the normal -4 penalty for using improvised weapons.

Precision (Ex): At 1st level, an engineer can utilize his uncanny sense of accuracy to penetrate enemy defenses. By spending one Innovation point, an engineer can gain an insight bonus to attack rolls as shown on Table: The Engineer. Alternatively, an engineer can instead utilize this bonus to overcome a number of Damage Reduction or Hardness equal to the bonus he would normally gain on attack rolls. This bonus is +1 at 1st level and increases to +2 at 3rd level and again every four levels afterwards (+3 at level 7, +4 at level 11, +5 at level 15, and +6 at level 19).

Vocation (Ex): A vocation is an engineer's profession, specialization, and his life's work. At 2nd level, an engineer chooses one vocation and picks additional vocations every even level afterwards. Similar to feats, an engineer must meet all prerequisites before taking a vocation. Unless otherwise stated, a vocation can only be taken once. Additionally, vocations represent an engineer’s mastery over science and technology, any spell-like abilities granted through a vocation can be cast where magic cannot normally be cast, such as within an Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm), and use the engineer's Intelligence modifier for determining save DC's.

Blast Radius
Prerequisite: Dynamo Cannon, Neuroarcanics
Description: You have augmented your dynamo cannon in order to create a spread effect with your shots. By spending 3 Innovation points, you can fire your dynamo cannon on your next attack as a 20 ft. cone instead of a normal ranged attack. All creatures within the 20 ft. cone must make a Reflex save equal to 10 + half your engineer level + your Intelligence modifier to take half damage on the attack. Treat this vocation as another way that you can enhance your dynamo cannon through Innovation.

Breaking Point
Prerequisite: Surveyor
Description: You can find weak spots in an opponent's defenses and can quickly utilize such weaknesses. By spending 2 Innovation points, you can strike foes with piercing accuracy. Your next attack with a melee weapon deals extra damage equal to your engineer level. You must decide whether or not to use this vocation prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend the Innovation points.

Chemistry
Prerequisite: -
Description: You are knowledgeable in the composition of matter, as well as the breaking down or altering of material. By spending 1 Innovation point, you can cast Disguise Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseself.htm), Endure Elements (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/endureElements.htm), Prestidigitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm), or Touch of Fatigue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/touchoffatigue.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Deflect Trajectory
Prerequisite: Physics
Description: Your knowledge of the physical universe is great enough to bend them to your will. By spending 2 Innovation points, you can cast Hold Portal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdportal.htm), Protection From Arrows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionfromarrows.htm), Resist Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resistenergy.htm), or Shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Dynamo Cannon
Prerequisite: -
Description: You have modified an existing crossbow or firearm that you are proficient with to create a unique and masterful weapon known as a dynamo cannon. Resembling a highly mechanized firearms, dynamo cannons are customized for the engineer and are highly complex, imposing a -4 penalty to attack rolls for use of anyone other than the engineer that created it. This penalty is in addition to penalties a character receives if they are not proficient with the crossbow that formed the base of the dynamo cannon.

As engineers become more powerful, they continually enhance their dynamo cannons. At 1st level and every 5th level, the dynamo cannon gains a +1 bonus on damage rolls when in the hands of the engineer that created it.

By spending Innovation points, an engineer can quickly enhance a dynamo cannon to replicate a single effect listed below. Enhancing a dynamo cannon in this way is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The effect that is used must be declared prior to the engineer's next attack, and the Innovation points are still lost if the attack fails. Any effect that change the damage type of the original ammunition (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, etc.), replace the original damage type.

Absolute Zero: Empower a crossbow bolt to deal cold damage. This effect costs 1 Innovation point to use.

Combustion: Empower a crossbow bolt to deal fire damage. This effect costs 1 Innovation point to use.

Corrosion: Empower a crossbow bolt to deal acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the bolt hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash. This effect costs 2 Innovation points to use.

Current: Empower a crossbow bolt to deal electricity damage. This effect costs 1 Innovation point to use.

Shockwave: Empower a crossbow bolt with sonic energy. This effect costs 1 Innovation point to use.

Terminal Ballistics: Empowers a crossbow bolt to deal Force damage instead of its former damage type. Additionally, the attack gains a +1 bonus on damage rolls. This effect costs 2 Innovation points to use.

Constructing a dynamo cannon requires the base cost of the weapon, plus 150gp and 3 days of work devoted solely to the cannon (Craft checks not required). Dynamo cannons use normal crossbow bolts, which are enhanced by the engineer. An engineer can enhance a crossbow bolt that is used as an improvised weapon, however the charge dissipates in 2d4 rounds and becomes useless if fired from anything other than a dynamo cannon.

Enhanced Performance
Prerequisite: Physics, Mecharmor
Description: Further modification of your mecharmor has given way to advancements in improved operation. Your suit of armor now provides an enhancement bonus to base land speed equal to your Speed Bonus as shown on Table: The Engineer. This bonus to land speed remains unaffected if you are carrying a medium or heavy load. In addition, the armor check penalty for a suit of mecharmor is reduced to double the normal armor check penalty, instead of triple.

Mecharmor
Prerequisite: -
Description: You have created a suit of performance enhancing armor, most commonly referred to as mecharmor. While these suits are complex and exotic, it is important to remember that they are nothing more than advanced suits of armor and function as such. However, due to their unique designs and complexity, anyone other than the engineer who created the mecharmor takes a -8 penalty to attack rolls inside the suit and cannot benefit from any vocations with the mecharmor as a prerequisite. This penalty is in addition to penalties a character receives if they are not proficient with the armor that formed the base of the mecharmor.

Activating (donning) a suit of mecharmor takes 1 minute. Once activated, the suit functions similarly to a suit of armor that grants its user special abilities. A suit of mecharmor is essentially a modified version of normal armor, with the base armor material forming the outer shell of the suit that protects the wearer and the delicate machinery inside. Mecharmor provides one and a half the armor bonus of the base armor (minimum 2), triples the armor check penalty (minimum -3), decreases the maximum dexterity bonus by -4 (minimum 0), as well as doubles the arcane spell failure chance and the weight of the armor. In addition, the suit provides the wearer with a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength whenever the wearer is using the suit. Mecharmor always counts as medium or heavier armor for abilities that rely on the character wearing light or no armor, regardless of the base armor type.

Constructing a suit of mecharmor requires the base cost of the armor, plus 500 gp and 1 week of work devoted solely to the mecharmor (Craft checks not required). Mecharmor comes with a set of gauntlets and can be modified with armor spikes or other additions just as normal armor.

Metabolic Jump
Prerequisite: Chemistry
Description: Knowledge of anatomy and physical composition has allowed you to enhance the body beyond its limitations. By spending 2 Innovation points, you can cast Bear's Endurance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bearsendurance.htm), Bull's Strength (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bullsstrength.htm), Expeditious Retreat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/expeditiousretreat.htm), or Jump (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/jump.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Mounted Artillery
Prerequisite: Dynamo Cannon
Description: Through clever engineering and design, you have developed a tripod that can shoot crossbows or other firearms automatically. In combat, mounting a crossbow on a tripod is a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Once mounted, the tripod will shoot on you next turn, shares your initiative for the rest of combat. The tripod uses your base attack bonus and is considered to have a dexterity modifier of 0 (-5 penalty to attack). Because you are not consciously firing the weapon, it cannot benefit from any archery feats you may possess, nor can it be enhanced if you used a dynamo cannon in place of a crossbow. For sheer efficiency, many engineers utilize repeating crossbows when they set up tripods.

Constructing a tripod requires the base cost of the crossbow, plus 25 gp and 1 day of work devoted solely to the tripod (Craft checks not required). The tripod is collapsible, and weighs about 5 lbs.

Neuroarcanics
Prerequisite: -
Description: Magic is just another scientific energy to be controlled, an you are particularly adept at altering magical auras. By spending 1 Innovation point, you can cast Detect Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectmagic.htm) , Identify (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/identify.htm), Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicaura.htm), or Read Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/readmagic.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Physics
Prerequisite: -
Description: Matter in motion, energy, and force are your dearest principles. By spending 1 Innovation point, you can cast Feather Fall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/featherfall.htm), Mage Hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magehand.htm), Open/Close (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/openclose.htm), or Unseen Servant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/unseenServant.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Quantum Gate
Prerequisite: Deflect Trajectory, Dynamo Cannon, Physics
Description: By spending 4 Innovation points, you can shoot out two portals from your dynamo cannon within 500' of each other. Travel between these quantum gates functions as a Dimension Door spell, except that teleporting is only possible between two quantum gates, and that the quantum gates last 10 minutes per engineer level before disappearing into thin air.

Renovation
Prerequisite: Neuroarcanics
Description: By swiftly rebuilding the material elements of an object, you can swiftly make repairs to mundane objects or constructs, seemingly by touch. Each day, you can repair a total number of hit points of damage equal to your engineer level x your Intelligence bonus. You may choose to divide your repairing among multiple recipients, and you don't have to use it all at once. Using this vocation is a standard action.

Sapping
Prerequisite: Chemistry, Structural Destabilization
Description: You can quickly erode mineral compositions. By spending 3 Innovation points, you can cast Meld into Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meldintostone.htm), Rusting Grasp (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rustinggrasp.htm), Spike Stones (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stonespikes.htm), or Stone Shape (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stoneshape.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Steambeast Companion
Prerequisite: Neuroarcanics
Description You have created a collapsible and highly versitile construct known as a steambeast. Essentially a collection of intricate parts, the components of a steambeast lie dormant until they are rapidly arranged into a form by an engineer. By spending 3 points of Innovation, you can assemble a pile of steambeast components into an animal form as a full-round action. The steambeast holds its chosen form and acts upon your initiative, obeying all orders from you to the best of its ability. Each additional round that a steambeast remains assembled costs 1 point of Innovation. A steambeast can be dismissed and disassembled as a move action.

{table=head]
Class Level|
Bonus HD|
Natural Armor Adj.|
Str/Dex Adj.|
Damage Reduction|
Special

4th-7th |
+3 |
+2 |
+1 |
DR 2/Adamantine | Construct Traits, Lighted, Mindless

8th-11th |
+6 |
+4 |
+3 |
DR 4/Adamantine | Half Speed Bonus

12th-15th |
+9 |
+6 |
+6 |
DR 6/Adamantine | Energy Resistance

16th-20th |
+12 |
+8 |
+9 |
DR 10/Adamantine | Full Speed Bonus [/table]
Steambeast Companion Basics
The animal type used by a steambeast is chosen from the list below. Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes.

Class Level
The character's engineer level. The engineer’s class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to a steambeast companion for the purpose of determining the companion’s abilities and the alternative lists available to the character.

Bonus HD
Extra ten-sided (d10) Hit Dice, each of which gains bonus hit points based on size, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the steambeast companion's base attack and base save bonuses. A steambeast's base attack bonus is the same as that of an engineer of a level equal to the steambeast's HD. A steambeast companion has no good saving throws. A steambeast companion gains no additional skill points or feats.

Natural Armor Adj.
The number noted here is an improvement to the steambeast companion's existing natural armor bonus.

Str/Dex Adj.
Add this value to the steambeast companion's Strength and Dexterity scores.

Damage Reduction
The number noted here is an improvement to the steambeast companion's existing damage Rrduction and stacks with other forms of damage reduction.

Construct Type
A steambeast's type changes to construct, converting Hit Dice and gaining all traits of the Construct type.

Lighted
At your command, a steambeast's eyes can create light as powerful as a torch.

Mindless
A steambeast has no Intelligence score.

Fast Movement
At level 5, a steambeast gains a bonus to all modes of movement equal to half your Speed Bonus as shown on Table: The Engineer. At 10th level, the steambeast gains the full Speed Bonus. This bonus to land speed remains unaffected if the steambeast is carrying a medium or heavy load.

Energy Resistance
The steambeast gains energy resistance Fire and Electricity equal to your engineer level.
When assembled, a steambeast can take the form of a single animal listed below, based on the engineer's level and adjusted for the purposes of determing characteristics as shown.

4th level: Badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), Medium Shark, owl, pony, porpoise, snake (Small or Medium viper), squid, or wolf.

8th level (level -4): Ape, black bear, bison, boar, cheetah, crocodile, dire badger, dire bat, dire weasel, monitor lizard, shark (Large), snake (constrictor or Large viper), wolverine.

12th level (level -8): Brown bear, dire wolverine, giant crocodile, deinonychus, dire ape, dire boar, dire wolf, elasmosaurus, lion, rhinoceros, snake (huge viper), tiger.

16th level (level -12): Dire lion, megaraptor, orca whale, polar bear, shark (Huge), snake (giant constrictor).

Constructing steambeast components requires 500 gp and 1 week of work devoted solely to the steambeast (Craft checks not required). Steambeast components weigh 30 lbs, but adapt to the size of the animal form when assembled. If a steambeast is destroyed in combat, the components are likewise destroyed.

Structural Destabilization
Prerequisite: Chemistry
Description: Breaking down a the material composition of an object is child's play to the well-to-do engineer. By spending 2 Innovation points, you can cast Knock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/knock.htm), Soften Earth and Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/softenearthandstone.htm), Warp Wood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/warpwood.htm), or Wood Shape (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/woodshape.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Surveyor
Prerequisite: -
Description: You utilize terrestrial space to earn sight beyond sight. Any ranges of vision available to you doubles in distance and you always know which direction you are facing. In addition, you gain a bonus to Spot checks equal to your engineer level.

Terraform
Prerequisite: Chemistry, Sapping, Structural Destabilization
Description: You are capable of altering vast areas of land with minimal effort. By spending 4 Innovation points, you can cast Passwall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/passwall.htm), Stone Shape (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stoneshape.htm), Stone Spikes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stonespikes.htm), Transmute Mud to Rock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transmutemudtorock.htm), or Transmute Rock to Mud (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transmuterocktomud.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Thermodynamics
Prerequisite: Physics
Description: You are well learned in the art of converting energy into usable heat. By spending 2 Innovation points, you can cast Continual Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/continualflame.htm), Heat Metal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heatmetal.htm), Produce Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/produceflame.htm), or Pyrotechnics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pyrotechnics.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level.

Topographical Senses
Prerequisite: Breaking Point, Surveyor
Description: You see differently than others, granting you heightened vision. By spending 3 Innovation points, you can cast Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcanesight.htm), Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clairaudienceClairvoyance.htm), Locate Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/locatecreature.htm), or Scrying (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half your engineer level. An engineer uses a polished piece of metal to scry upon.

Trap Dismantler
Prerequisite: Surveyor
Description: You can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. Additionally, you can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

If you beat a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check, you can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with your party) without disarming it.

Tunneling Mobility
Prerequisite: Chemistry
Description: You can quickly alter the composition of earth materials to construct holes and tunnels. When wielding a tool that can dig such as a shovel, pick, or drill, you gain a burrow speed equal to your Speed Bonus as shown on Table: The Engineer. You can tunnel through dirt, but not through rock and cannot charge or run while burrowing. You can choose whether or not to leave a usable hole behind you. A hole constructed in this manner is 5 feet tall and wide.

Ultravision Lenses
Prerequisite: Surveyor
Description: Through your knowledge of light, you are able to see upon the ultraviolet light spectrum, as long as you use a pair of lenses or goggles as a focus for the necessary modifications. You gain Ultravision out to 120 ft. Ultravision functions exactly like Darkvision, except that you see colors in hues of violet and can see through magical darkness. In addition, you can spend 2 points of Innovation to cast See Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/seeInvisibility.htm) as a spell-like ability.

Vertical Mobility
Prerequisite: Physics
Description: When using climbing gear such as pitons, you gain a climb speed equal to your Speed Bonus as shown on Table: The Engineer, and gain a +8 racial bonus on all climb checks. You must make a climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC of more than 0, but you can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing. You cannot use the run action while climbing. You retains your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus on their attacks against you while you are climbing.
Minor Forging (Sp): At 5th level, an engineer can create objects, seemingly out of thin air. By spending three points of Innovation, an engineer can cast Minor Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/minorCreation.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half his engineer level.

Greater Forging (Sp): At 9th level, an engineer's processes of creation advance. By spending four points of Innovation, an engineer can cast Fabricate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm) or Major Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorCreation.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half his engineer level.

Improvised Mage (Su): At 13th level, an engineer can craft magic items, even if he cannot cast the spell using one of his vocations. He must still take the necessary item creation feat to craft magic item then make a Use Magic Device check of DC 20 + the spell level. An engineer is considered to have a caster level equal to half his engineer level.

In addition, an engineer's caster level is considered to be two levels higher for the purposes of spell-like abilities granted through vocations.

Supreme Forging (Sp): At 17th level, an engineer's processes of creation advance. By spending seven points of Innovation, an engineer can cast Hardening (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/hardening.htm) or True Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/trueCreation.htm) as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to half his engineer level.

Mobile Fortress (Ex): At 20th level, an engineer builds a personal workshop in the form of a massive mobile building. This mobile fortress functions as a colossal vehicle with a land speed equal to half the speed bonus as shown on Table: The Engineer. Mechanically powered, the mobile fortress moves under the control of the engineer, has Hit Points equal to 3 x the engineer's level x the engineer's Int modifier, and hardness equal to the engineer's level.

The mobile fortress counts as a workshop with all the basic tools required to construct items and is operated by mechanical arms that function as Unseen Servants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/unseenServant.htm), except that they are visible and can go anywhere within the mobile fortress. While the mobile fortress has no weapons, it can be fitted with dynamo cannons on mounted artillery bases, or other similar ranged weapons such as ballista.

Constructing a mobile fortress requires 20,000gp and one month of construction time devoted solely to the mobile fortress (craft checks not required).

Engineer Stuff:

Prestige Classes:

Archiater (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7444178#post7444178)
Machinist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6933640#post6933640)
Recondite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128684)


More Engineer Love:

Bonus Vocations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11015845#post11015845) by ChumpLump (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=912)
Tinkerer Bloodline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11519525#post11519525) by Welknair (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=48536)
Medicineer Prestige Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11304680&postcount=3) by Kellus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=23138)


Thanks to everyone supporting this class :smallcool:

DamnedIrishman
2009-06-09, 01:27 PM
Some guidelines on raw material costs for building, maintaining and repairing mecharmor would be nice.

Karma Guard
2009-06-09, 01:29 PM
This is pretty awesome.

Maybe something to do with weapons themselves; an Engineer also designs siege weaponry and even just plain old more technical weapons. Maybe a line where you get an awesome gun/laser/ranged monstrosity instead of a suit.

Warforged sub levels would just be peachykeen too, because I'm a nerd for racial substitution levels.

Faleldir
2009-06-09, 01:42 PM
He should have a Turret Companion. When I think Engineer, I think turrets.

DracoDei
2009-06-09, 02:12 PM
I suggest air-tanks for the mech-armor that allow a few minutes of air for underwater or as protection against poisonous gasses. Make a second level to it that provides a fully sealable (and self-resealing when damaged) environment (small pumps and tubes provide breathing air when you aren't using the tanks). This gives full immunity to poisonous gasses and bad odors as well as contact poisons.

Jumping as a lower level version of flight might be nice.

Sensors that grant lowlight vision or even darkvision...

Insulation against electrical and thermal attacks.

Automatic piloting legs that grant negate the damage from forces marches and even let you walk in your sleep if you have to.

ROCKET PUNCH!

Eldrys
2009-06-09, 02:56 PM
I'm not a homebrewer, but the Machinist seams a little overpowered.

Lysander
2009-06-09, 03:28 PM
Other possible Vocations:

Deconstructor - Expert at taking existing machines, doors, and structures apart. This could include demolitions, lock picking, etc.

Clockworker - Skilled at making constructs that operate for a limited number of rounds. Basically a conjurer variant.

Electrician - Skilled at channeling lightning and using its power for lightning and fire attacks.

Lappy9000
2009-06-09, 09:23 PM
Some guidelines on raw material costs for building, maintaining and repairing mecharmor would be nice.I meant to post that....oops. However, for repairing, Mender's Touch would probably suffice.


This is pretty awesome.

Maybe something to do with weapons themselves; an Engineer also designs siege weaponry and even just plain old more technical weapons. Maybe a line where you get an awesome gun/laser/ranged monstrosity instead of a suit.

Warforged sub levels would just be peachykeen too, because I'm a nerd for racial substitution levels.Big heaping weapons! Awesome!

We'll see about the racial substitution level. Gotta get the class overhauled first.


He should have a Turret Companion. When I think Engineer, I think turrets.Probably not a companion, but I think some turrets could totally work.


Other possible Vocations:

Deconstructor - Expert at taking existing machines, doors, and structures apart. This could include demolitions, lock picking, etc.

Clockworker - Skilled at making constructs that operate for a limited number of rounds. Basically a conjurer variant.

Electrician - Skilled at channeling lightning and using its power for lightning and fire attacks.Exxcccccceeeeeelllent.


I suggest air-tanks for the mech-armor that allow a few minutes of air for underwater or as protection against poisonous gasses. Make a second level to it that provides a fully sealable (and self-resealing when damaged) environment (small pumps and tubes provide breathing air when you aren't using the tanks). This gives full immunity to poisonous gasses and bad odors as well as contact poisons.

Jumping as a lower level version of flight might be nice.

Sensors that grant lowlight vision or even darkvision...

Insulation against electrical and thermal attacks.

Automatic piloting legs that grant negate the damage from forces marches and even let you walk in your sleep if you have to.

ROCKET PUNCH!DracoDei...what would I do without you?

***************************************
Now! I'm going to address a couple of problems at once and eliminate the three sets of vocations. An engineer now will have access to any of the vocations, assuming they meet the prerequisites. Why not have a mecharmor that can climb up towers?

Besides, let's be honest: Who isn't going to want a personalized mini-mech?

Eldrys
2009-06-09, 10:10 PM
Off-topic but, Lappy you should totally get an avatar of the mecharmor for steampunk weak.

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 03:44 PM
Off-topic but, Lappy you should totally get an avatar of the mecharmor for steampunk weak.It's a cool picture, but it's not expressive enough to warrant an avatar form.

Okay! The three-schools of vocations are now destroyed, leaving an engineer with a varietastic 20 vocations to choose from (25 if you include bonus feats).

While some amazing ideas were proposed, I think an engineer has plenty of options to choose from. However, I'm going to make at least 1 engineer-friendly prestige class that allows them more specified bonuses to their vocations.

Edit: And I still need a capstone. Oui!

13_CBS
2009-06-10, 04:07 PM
What about vocations designed to counteract spells? Perhaps a handful of vocations that replicate the effects of things like Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, Anti-Magic Whatever, etc.

Or perhaps augmentations to the Mecharmor that allow you to add energy damage to your attacks (dunno how you'd do force damage, though), or modifications that allow the engineer to debuff the enemy (maybe a shock prod to do a bit of Electricity damage while also lowering the enemy's Dexterity, or a sonic blast to do sonic damage and stun/lower the enemy's Wisdom and Intelligence)?


How about, as a high-level vocation, the engineer can build a second set of mecharmor, this one being a robotic companion? You could then modify the companion to do the following:


Increase in size to become a cottage-sized shelter
Decrease in size to Tiny
Increase its physical size to Huge
Attach weaponry, including energy-damage weaponry (flame throwers, Tesla guns, sonic generators, liquid nitrogen throwers,etc)
Thrusters for fast but low-maneuverability flight
Turrets, allowing the companion to make an extra set of ranged attacks on another opponent, or the same opponent
Sensor array, increasing Spot and Listen ranks
Combat maneuvers, like tripping, grappling, etc.
Launcher mechanism, allowing it to throw various things (grenades, Alchemists' Fire flasks, holy water flasks, caltrops, and with some Strength checks, people)

Eldrys
2009-06-10, 04:54 PM
Improvised Fighter: Engineers are adept at making something from nothing, and regularly utilize tools such as wrenches, drills, and shovels as weaponry. An Engineer can wield an improvised weapon as if they were proficient with it, and do not take the normal -4 penalty for using improvised weapons.




It would be awsome if you could draw up some kinda megadrill(like a heavy pick but gives a bunus to craft checks).

cha0s4a11
2009-06-10, 05:04 PM
One idea for an engineering capstone:

Construct Mobile Fortress Core Factory:

Allows the engineer to expend all of their innovation points (and a significant amount of gold) over a period of time (a week? a couple weeks? a month?) to construct the core of what will eventually become a (colossal+ sized) mobile fortress and useful base of operations for the engineer and his friends. Once the core is constructed, the engineer can use the fortress core factory to create/upgrade all the other components of the fortress (at a cost of innovation points and gold), including:

Basics:
Living Quarters
Power Generator (Limits how many and what types of other components of the fortress there are)
Some form of ground mobility
Hull Chassis

Movement Upgrades
Flight (Very Expensive, but awesome)
Water Travel/Waterproofing
+Movement Speed

Repair/Maintenance
Repair Workshop
Mecharmor Factory (Expensive)
+Power Generation

Weaponry/Armor
Siege Cannons (Some potential to aggravate the leadership of nearby cities)
Flak Fire
Hull Plating

......etc.

DracoDei
2009-06-10, 05:26 PM
... because you are not officially awesome until you can say that your party lives in S.H.I.E.L.D. headquarters... I like it... I really like it.

I don't care if you don't make it the capstone... there NEEDS to be rules for that... make it an epic feat chain (or, conversely, a single feat acquirable at level 10) or something if you have to, but that is just too cool to not have as an option.

Eldrys
2009-06-10, 05:28 PM
... because you are not officially awesome until you can say that your party lives in S.H.I.E.L.D. headquarters... I like it... I really like it.

I don't care if you don't make it the capstone... there NEEDS to be rules for that... make it an epic feat chain (or, conversely, a single feat acquirable at level 10) or something if you have to, but that is just too cool to not have as an option.

I feel the same, which is why it has to, at least, be the capstone feature. Anything less would be magnitudes overpowered.

Surrealistik
2009-06-10, 05:33 PM
Needs force/anti-magic field generators as high tier augments.

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 05:35 PM
One idea for an engineering capstone:

Construct Mobile Fortress Core Factory:

Allows the engineer to expend all of their innovation points (and a significant amount of gold) over a period of time (a week? a couple weeks? a month?) to construct the core of what will eventually become a (colossal+ sized) mobile fortress and useful base of operations for the engineer and his friends. Once the core is constructed, the engineer can use the fortress core factory to create/upgrade all the other components of the fortress (at a cost of innovation points and gold), including:

Basics:
Living Quarters
Power Generator (Limits how many and what types of other components of the fortress there are)
Some form of ground mobility
Hull Chassis

Movement Upgrades
Flight (Very Expensive, but awesome)
Water Travel/Waterproofing
+Movement Speed

Repair/Maintenance
Repair Workshop
Mecharmor Factory (Expensive)
+Power Generation

Weaponry/Armor
Siege Cannons (Some potential to aggravate the leadership of nearby cities)
Flak Fire
Hull Plating

......etc.Holy Nine Hells :smalleek:

I...I...tha....that's too awesome to not include. I am totally gonna try to get someting like that.

It would be awsome if you could draw up some kinda megadrill(like a heavy pick but gives a bunus to craft checks).Only got one thing to say to that: :smallwink:
Let's just say that you should wait until Sunday rolls around. Although it may take a while before you actually see that.

Edit: Also, I think the people have come to a consensus that there need to be more mecharmor vocations. Unless anyone objects, I'll make adjustments accordingly.

DracoDei
2009-06-10, 05:37 PM
"Cool" and "Mechanically powerful" do not always correlate...

In fact I can argue that as a Capstone it would usually have next to no game effect at all... because by that time the party will be teleporting everywhere, thus avoiding the same random encounters that traveling via the fortress would. Above ground fortifications are way to vulnerable to fliers in most cases to pose a challenge at those levels, so anything they can bull-doze over with the thing is something that wasn't built strong enough anyway. For that same reason they can't really take it into town, and, infact, have to avoid populated areas entirely. As for extradimensional adventuring, THAT upgrade should be VERY expensive.

Now I could be completely and totally wrong, but I do think I have at least shown that the matter is not blindingly obvious to everyone.


EDIT:
Just a quick brainstorming sorta thing here... this is something that almost certainly needs to be an option, but this is only a very rough guess of how it should work.
Epic Feat
Construct Main Cannon:
For the cost of X00,000 you may add a main cannon to your fortress. Due to its complexity and danger of operation firing this cannon requires your personal supervision and involvement. It requires 5 minutes of uninterrupted work from you, two scientists each of whom must be at least 5th level engineers with at least a +15 modifier to Knowledge(architecture and engineering) checks , and at least 20 technicians, who have no class requirements, but must have at least a +10 modifier to Knowledge(architecture and engineering) checks, to fire it, and drains you and the lieutenants of all inspiration. You may perform no other tasks during this period, and it requires at least 20 points of inspiration from you and 10 from each of your lieutenants to do so. The path of the beam generated is 200 feet in diameter and 3 miles long. Aiming it is a non-trivial task, treat it as a grenade-like weapon with a range increment of half a mile, except that a miss places it 200 feet off target for each range increment past the first (50 feet off target if in the first range increment), rather than a flat 5 feet. It deals 3 points of EACH of the following types of damage for each point of inspiration you (personally) supply to it: Fire, Electricity, Sonic, Force. This energy shares your alignment types for the purposes of by-passing regeneration or other defenses. IE if you are Good aligned the damage counts as Good/Holy damage, if you are also Chaotic then it would also count as Chaotic/Anarchic damage.


Because when if you are going to be building a flying castle that can teleport into the Abyss at will... you really should be able to put a Wave Motion Gun on it...

Eldrys
2009-06-10, 05:37 PM
Woot! I got a winky face.:smallbiggrin:

Haven
2009-06-10, 05:43 PM
He should have a Turret Companion. When I think Engineer, I think turrets.

"Rogue's disablin' mah device!"

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 05:43 PM
"Cool" and "Mechanically powerful" do not always correlate...

In fact I can argue that as a Capstone it would usually have next to no game effect at all... because by that time the party will be teleporting everywhere, thus avoiding the same random encounters that traveling via the fortress would. Above ground fortifications are way to vulnerable to fliers in most cases to pose a challenge at those levels, so anything they can bull-doze over with the thing is something that wasn't built strong enough anyway. For that same reason they can't really take it into town, and, infact, have to avoid populated areas entirely. As for extradimensional adventuring, THAT upgrade should be VERY expensive.

Now I could be completely and totally wrong, but I do think I have at least shown that the matter is not blindingly obvious to everyone.Well, I normally don't like to include non-mechanical bonuses in classes. Stuff like getting a castle, becoming favored by higher-ups, and the like don't strike me as the things that a class should grant.

But that's neither here nor there. Regardless, cha0s4a11 has gotten my creative juices flowing; and that's all I can really ask for.

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 05:45 PM
"Rogue's disablin' mah device!""Dispenser down!"

"That cleric's a spy!"

Xondoure
2009-06-10, 05:54 PM
I don't play much D&D but...



Crafter Extraordinaire (Ex): At 4th level, few can match the engineer's artifice when creating objects both magical and mundane. You add your engineer level to all Craft and Profession checks.

Lesser Forging (Sp): At 7th level, an engineer can create objects, seemingly out of thin air. By spending three points of Innovation, you can cast Minor Creation as a spell-like ability.

Greater Forging (Sp): At 10th level, an engineer's processes of creation advance. By spending four points of Innovation, you can cast Fabricate or Major Creation as a spell-like ability.


This is really cool for creating stuff really fast, but what would happen if an engineer worked tirelessly for the normal amount of time it would take to build these things? Maybe it's just me, but I feel that an item made by an engineer deserves to gain some major bonuses if made in the normal time.

TengYt
2009-06-10, 05:58 PM
This is just too awesome. However, I think all Engineers should gain Mecharmor at third rather than it being optional.

Surrealistik
2009-06-10, 05:59 PM
Yeah, Mecharmour is too badass to be optional.

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 06:01 PM
So, we've got:

Everyone engineer needs a set of mecharmor.
Anti-Magical abilities = win.
More mecharmor abilities
Make items made by an engineer better.

Can do; I'm gonna brainstorm for a bit.

TengYt
2009-06-10, 06:04 PM
Maybe some vocations that allow one's Mecharmor to perform in certain enviornments, such as underwater or in extreme heat?

DracoDei
2009-06-10, 06:12 PM
Err... I got quadrupal semi-ninjaed while editing my post... look up to my last ones for a sketch of a must-have (as in "it must exist", not "everyone must take it") epic feat for this class...

Bergor Terraf
2009-06-10, 06:50 PM
I really like :smallbiggrin:


How about making the Mobile Fortress a feat? Maybe gives the means to build the basic stuff and upgrades must be researched (a little like a wizards researching new spells).

As for mecharmor abilities, I have a few suggestions...

"potion launcher" : big barreled gun that shoot potions, does 1 damage on impact, plus whatever effect the potion has. Maybe multiple magazines for multiple attacks in a round. A final upgrade could be a "Mortar mode", launching several potions high in the air to rain down on the enemy. Maybe even add a vocation that permits fabrication of stronger alchemical stuff like improved Alchemist’s Fire or something.


Armor spikes : normal version and Flower of Death Macross Missile Massacre style

Elemental Hands : gives fists attacks with elemental damage (heat metal style), elemental damage could be added to the full armor later (think about it: red hot armor + grapple = Burning Bear Hug! Now add the armor spikes...)

Jump jets : give bonus to jump checks, could be improved to give lateral mouvement, giving dodge bonus during a round it's activated or during a charge.

Finally, for the capstone ability, how about being able to permanently sacrifice some innovation points to give Sentience to something?

Surrealistik
2009-06-10, 07:39 PM
The Mecharmour really, really needs force and anti-magic field generators as high-tier upgrades.

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 07:41 PM
The Mecharmour really, really needs force and anti-magic field generators as high-tier upgrades.I'm working on it! Keep yer' pants on :smalltongue:

Surrealistik
2009-06-10, 07:43 PM
Sweet. Can't wait to use this class in a campaign.

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 09:25 PM
Sweet. Can't wait to use this class in a campaign.The greatest compliment you could ever grace a homebrewer with :smallbiggrin:
I thank you greatly and humbly ask you to tell me how it plays!

*********
Okay! I've added in and swapped out a few things. Changes include:

Ranged Artillery has an option to give you ROCKET FISTS.
Magic is just a scientific phenomenon, giving way to the field of Neuroarcanics.
Pyrometallurgy changed to Thermodynamics and altered slightly.
Thermal Transfer lets you channel energy through your mecharmor's fists.
Structural Destabilization added.
Modified Vitality split into two vocations.
Cave In changed to Environmental Alteration.
Heightened Neuroarcanics added.
Avalanche, Death from Above, Dungeoneer, Dangersense, Sightless accuracy, and a few others were taken out due to changes in fluff.

Phew! Tell me what you guys think!

Next up, I'm working on some awesome weapons that can be created through vocations.

Eldrys
2009-06-10, 09:35 PM
Gaurds and Wards was put twice (right next to each other) in the Heightened Neuroarcanics vocation

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 09:39 PM
Gaurds and Wards was put twice (right next to each other) in the Heightened Neuroarcanics vocationThanks. I actually mixed up the whole vocation a bit.

Hope I'm not offending any real engineers with my ignorant sense of terminology :smallbiggrin:

Waspinator
2009-06-10, 10:21 PM
"Hey, look buddy. I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems."

Lappy9000
2009-06-10, 10:32 PM
"Hey, look buddy. I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems.":smallbiggrin:

"Engineers are quite common in the world, their profession being to fix problems, be it a broken siege engine, a disabled construct, or a horde of rampaging orcs." <--The solution is a gun. And if that don't work, use more gun.

Stormthorn
2009-06-10, 11:30 PM
This class seems like it flavors together with Techsmith nicely.

Karma Guard
2009-06-11, 12:20 AM
Looking at the changes, they're pretty good.

<( ._.)> Still waiting for my ranged-monstrosity chain of Vocations, but it can wait.

Maybe an ability to jerry-rig temporary magical abilities? Flaming or Lawful (or is it Axial? I can never remember) for a few hours/minutes/$UNITOFTIME by blowing some Innovation points.

DracoDei
2009-06-11, 04:01 AM
Axiomatic, not axial.

Lappy9000
2009-06-11, 10:02 AM
Looking at the changes, they're pretty good.

<( ._.)> Still waiting for my ranged-monstrosity chain of Vocations, but it can wait. Thanks, I'm actually thinking of how to pull that off (along with the capstone). Making a huge customizable weapon is awesomesauce, I'm just windering how I'm gonna stat it up (especially since the engineer can alread make mundane weapons).

/brainstorm

Lappy9000
2009-06-11, 12:54 PM
I introduce: The dynamo cannon. Complete with misused engineering jargon.

Question: This class seems pretty dip-worthy. Good Fort and Will, high skill points, a vocation, lots of innovation, and the ability to heal your construct buddies. Am I just being paranoid, or do I have a minor problem here?

Eldrys
2009-06-11, 12:56 PM
I'm not really a homebrewer (or a dipper I usually stick with one or two classes). but I guess you could lower the skill points.

TengYt
2009-06-11, 12:59 PM
Well, most non-spellcasting classes can be useful for dips. As long as you can come up with a great capstone, this class will be fine.

Lappy9000
2009-06-11, 01:32 PM
I'm not really a homebrewer (or a dipper I usually stick with one or two classes). but I guess you could lower the skill points.I kinda wanted the class to be a skill-monkey with more martial prowess than the rogue, so I'd prefer not to lower the skills unless completely necessary.


Well, most non-spellcasting classes can be useful for dips. As long as you can come up with a great capstone, this class will be fine.Well, thanks! I am working on that capstone, hopefully should be done tonight.

Hopefully, noone's found anything horribly wrong with the new vocations...

DracoDei
2009-06-11, 01:35 PM
Specify the duration (1 attack, vs 1 round) of the modifications to your dynamo cannon. Also, it should be HALF your Engineer level to the DC for the AoE one.

More thoughts as I find them...

Eldrys
2009-06-11, 01:37 PM
Can you have multiple Dynmamo cannons

Surrealistik
2009-06-11, 01:50 PM
I've been thinking that maybe the Mecharmour should have its own power source that is tapped into for several of its enhancements and vocations, like an energy beam weapon of some sort, or an integrated force/energy field generator. The power source could be improved and expanded over time to increase its "charge" capacity and to regenerate "charge" faster.

Owrtho
2009-06-11, 02:12 PM
Just wondering, but can you use your feats to get vocations? Also, I'd suggest a vocation (or group of them) to increase the size of your mech armor (problematic for if you need to enter a building, but when your outside...).

Also, for a capstone you could make a set of special vocations they could get (maybe something like masterwork vocations of which you can gain 1 a level 20).

Owrtho

13_CBS
2009-06-11, 02:18 PM
No comments about a mechanical companion? :smallfrown:

Eldrys
2009-06-11, 02:20 PM
No comments about a mechanical companion? :smallfrown:

OOOh!! OOOH!! you could get a vocation to make your dynamo cannon a mechanical companion with little feet and like a turret for a head and thats all:smallsmile:

13_CBS
2009-06-11, 02:47 PM
Having a strong companion could give the player at least 2 options on how to play their engineer. They could concentrate all their power on one subject (themselves in a mech armor), or they could split the power between two things, gaining flexibility and versatility.

TengYt
2009-06-11, 02:52 PM
A mechanical companion would be awesome, especially if there were various different "Species" and customisation options.

Bergor Terraf
2009-06-11, 03:05 PM
How about making it that each vocation gives the possibility to create a new part for the mecharmor?

Dynamo Canon could give the possibility to create one that is mecharmor-sized.

Neuroarcanics could give access to a kind of radar, detecting each magical effects in a certain radius.

Surveyor could give plans for a zooming feature.

Tunneling Mobility could give plans for a drill (insert mandatory Gurren Laggan reference here)

Armor Reinforcement, since it already gives something to the mecharmor, it could also give a bonus to the engineer, maybe give +1 hardness to anything he creates.

Heightened Neuroarcanics could give access to the anti-magic generator people have suggested.

Finally, the capstone could be to make the mecharmor autonomous for a certain period of time.

cha0s4a11
2009-06-11, 03:54 PM
One question (nitpick, really) about the dynamo cannon:

If you get the Sapper and get Internal Ballistics upgraded 3 times, does the damage cap out at 1d20 or 1d%? (d10 -> d12 -> d20 -> d%, right?)

Owrtho
2009-06-11, 04:20 PM
I think it would be 4d10, but I could be wrong.


Owrtho

DracoDei
2009-06-11, 05:51 PM
Actually according to this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize) page of the d20 SRD it almost certainly should go: 1d10 -> 2d8 -> 3d8 -> 4d8. (Look at the line for Bastard Sword, since weapons for a medium sized creature would be the baseline standard I should think, and using the Small sized collumn gives you a choice between the Greataxe and Greatsword row.) Still, an explicit definition in the orginal post couldn't hurt.

In any case, d20's have too many special abilities that allow re-rolling them and other things for them to get used for damage dice.

Haven
2009-06-11, 06:52 PM
Reading this over again, I have a question about the speed bonus. Does it apply to all forms of movement, or only to the various modes of movement gained through vocation?

Lappy9000
2009-06-11, 08:59 PM
Specify the duration (1 attack, vs 1 round) of the modifications to your dynamo cannon. Also, it should be HALF your Engineer level to the DC for the AoE one. Fixin's are required. Fixin's shall commence.


Can you have multiple Dynmamo cannonsNot as such, no. If it doesn't say "Special: This vocation can be taken multiple times. It's effects stack." then no. I'll specify.


I've been thinking that maybe the Mecharmour should have its own power source that is tapped into for several of its enhancements and vocations, like an energy beam weapon of some sort, or an integrated force/energy field generator. The power source could be improved and expanded over time to increase its "charge" capacity and to regenerate "charge" faster.Simplicity is the key. You can already strap your dynamo cannon to your mecharmor, so I figure that's close enough. An engineer already has their Innovation to worry about; putting in another 'point' system is probably gonna end up with a lot of bookwork.


Just wondering, but can you use your feats to get vocations? Also, I'd suggest a vocation (or group of them) to increase the size of your mech armor (problematic for if you need to enter a building, but when your outside...).You get vocations at the same time as feats, although I'm toying with changing the progression to every 2nd level to both give more vocations and make the class less dip-worthy. But, yeah, no.

Edit: Oh, yeah, size increase. Probably not, 'cause that sort of thing just gets out of hand real quick. At least, not in a non prestige class'd mechanic, that is :smallwink:


Also, for a capstone you could make a set of special vocations they could get (maybe something like masterwork vocations of which you can gain 1 a level 20).There's a lot of vocations already. Don't wanna swamp players with too many options.


Having a strong companion could give the player at least 2 options on how to play their engineer. They could concentrate all their power on one subject (themselves in a mech armor), or they could split the power between two things, gaining flexibility and versatility.An engineer hardly needs a companion to be versitile.

Without mecharmor, an engineer can already sub-tank utilizing Precision in place of their BAB, go straight skill-monkey with lots of crafting prowess, pick up some battlefield control with the Vernacular Architecture vocations, and even cancel out magic with the Neuroarcanics vocations. Heck, they could go heal-bot if their party consists of constructs (circa Eberron). So, yeah, I'd argue that an engineer has at least 5 party options, without the use of mecharmor :smalltongue:


How about making it that each vocation gives the possibility to create a new part for the mecharmor?

Dynamo Canon could give the possibility to create one that is mecharmor-sized.

Neuroarcanics could give access to a kind of radar, detecting each magical effects in a certain radius.

Surveyor could give plans for a zooming feature.

Tunneling Mobility could give plans for a drill (insert mandatory Gurren Laggan reference here)

Armor Reinforcement, since it already gives something to the mecharmor, it could also give a bonus to the engineer, maybe give +1 hardness to anything he creates.

Heightened Neuroarcanics could give access to the anti-magic generator people have suggested.

Finally, the capstone could be to make the mecharmor autonomous for a certain period of time.You know you can do just about all of those in the mecharmor anyway, right? :smalltongue:


One question (nitpick, really) about the dynamo cannon:

If you get the Sapper and get Internal Ballistics upgraded 3 times, does the damage cap out at 1d20 or 1d%? (d10 -> d12 -> d20 -> d%, right?)I need to clarify. Thanks for the catch.


Actually according to this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize) page of the d20 SRD it almost certainly should go: 1d10 -> 2d8 -> 3d8 -> 4d8. (Look at the line for Bastard Sword, since weapons for a medium sized creature would be the baseline standard I should think, and using the Small sized collumn gives you a choice between the Greataxe and Greatsword row.) Still, an explicit definition in the orginal post couldn't hurt.

In any case, d20's have too many special abilities that allow re-rolling them and other things for them to get used for damage dice.Ah, thank you. I'll get to work on tweaking that.


Reading this over again, I have a question about the speed bonus. Does it apply to all forms of movement, or only to the various modes of movement gained through vocation?The latter. I thought that was standard fare, thar :smallconfused:

Haven
2009-06-12, 06:42 AM
The latter. I thought that was standard fare, thar :smallconfused:

Well, the only other similar chart I've seen was the monk's fast movement, which does apply to all forms of movement. And that part of the table wasn't really explained in the description, so it was unclear.

Karma Guard
2009-06-12, 08:19 AM
Dynamo Cannon!

Never leave.

A possible Vocation might be to add on range; a snipery sort of one. Make it useful to the surveyor 'chain' and then you've made a hybrid! :V

And if you really want a companion, another vocation could just give you a familiar pulling from a limited little list that is basically 'effigy creature XYZ, Animated Object, Those Little Beetles That Are Metal Named (which I can't remember :V), (with levels) Hammerer, Pulverizer, so on, so forth, maybe a babby version of the item familiar that isn't ridiculously broken', with further vocations to make the thing better.

That'd be the simplest way to do it.

Also:

"150gp per character level" for making the Dynamo Cannon. That's a bit unfair, isn't it? Someone who decides to pick up the more gun route gets kinda screwed by this (even though I know it's not a lot of money AT ALL, logically, it sticks out.).

Lappy9000
2009-06-12, 10:12 AM
A possible Vocation might be to add on range; a snipery sort of one. Make it useful to the surveyor 'chain' and then you've made a hybrid! :V Ah, good idea.


And if you really want a companion, another vocation could just give you a familiar pulling from a limited little list that is basically 'effigy creature XYZ, Animated Object, Those Little Beetles That Are Metal Named (which I can't remember :V), (with levels) Hammerer, Pulverizer, so on, so forth, maybe a babby version of the item familiar that isn't ridiculously broken', with further vocations to make the thing better. Honestly, I really, really don't want to give an engineer a mechanical companion. Especially they already exist; they're called homonculi.


"150gp per character level" for making the Dynamo Cannon. That's a bit unfair, isn't it? Someone who decides to pick up the more gun route gets kinda screwed by this (even though I know it's not a lot of money AT ALL, logically, it sticks out.). How is that worse than the 1,000 that a suit of mecharmor costs?

Owrtho
2009-06-12, 01:33 PM
Just curious, but in regards to the costs on vocations, are those one time fees, or do they for some reason have to pay them every time they level even if they don't do anything to the equipment that should require cost. Also, why should it cost more to take them at higher levels than lower levels when there is nothing that makes them better by doing so? Or is the cost only paid when you take it or one of the vocations that require it, and in that case is the cost the amount times the player level or the level required to take the vocation?

Owrtho

13_CBS
2009-06-12, 02:10 PM
Without mecharmor, an engineer can already sub-tank utilizing Precision in place of their BAB, go straight skill-monkey with lots of crafting prowess, pick up some battlefield control with the Vernacular Architecture vocations, and even cancel out magic with the Neuroarcanics vocations. Heck, they could go heal-bot if their party consists of constructs (circa Eberron). So, yeah, I'd argue that an engineer has at least 5 party options, without the use of mecharmor :smalltongue:

Yes, but an engineer with a mechanical companion can do at least two of those things at once, like Druids with animal companions. :smallbiggrin:

Hunter Noventa
2009-06-12, 02:27 PM
This is one of the most awesome things I have ever seen, I am definitely showing it to my DM this weekend.

I may have missed it in my skimming of the topic, but how about melee vocations in a similar vein to the dynamo cannon. Like I dunno...a drill/pick/chainweapon that can be charged with different elements, used with or without the mech armor.

And maybe a choice of capstones. One could be the mobile fortress. Another creates uber mecharmor complete with Super Robot traits. Possibly even transformation. And if you took the drill, a Giga Drill breaker of course. And Sunglasses.

Lappy9000
2009-06-12, 09:13 PM
Just curious, but in regards to the costs on vocations, are those one time fees, or do they for some reason have to pay them every time they level even if they don't do anything to the equipment that should require cost. Also, why should it cost more to take them at higher levels than lower levels when there is nothing that makes them better by doing so? Or is the cost only paid when you take it or one of the vocations that require it, and in that case is the cost the amount times the player level or the level required to take the vocation?Mmm, I'm gonna work on that.


Yes, but an engineer with a mechanical companion can do at least two of those things at once, like Druids with animal companions. :smallbiggrin:Druids are also massively over powered. Sorry, but I'm standing firm on this one. It would definitely be worth a Prestige Class, though :smallwink:


This is one of the most awesome things I have ever seen, I am definitely showing it to my DM this weekend.You flatter me with your kind words :smallbiggrin:


I may have missed it in my skimming of the topic, but how about melee vocations in a similar vein to the dynamo cannon. Like I dunno...a drill/pick/chainweapon that can be charged with different elements, used with or without the mech armor.I like the idea. I think I'll tweak Thermal Transfer and possibly add in a new vocation.


And maybe a choice of capstones. One could be the mobile fortress. Another creates uber mecharmor complete with Super Robot traits. Possibly even transformation. And if you took the drill, a Giga Drill breaker of course. And Sunglasses.Multiple capstones...I like it.

Engineer: PIERCE THE HEAVENS WITH YOUR DRILL!!!

imp_fireball
2009-06-12, 10:56 PM
I really love this class and I think it would make an excellent addition to my campaign setting Orcs Unite! (if players ask that is; I did say I was allowing homebrew), since it's got a deal of technology paired with magic.

Although mender's touch doesn't really make sense. Standard action? That's like 3 seconds. In 3 seconds, you can't even screw in a nut - they can be darn tight after all. For the sake of fluff, I'd say that the engineer does, in fact, use a bit of magic (which is obvious after you look at the first of his vocations which give him spell-like abilities).

Mender's touch might simply be the result of his outlook on magic, his knowledge of the sciences allowed him to naturally learn how to customize a mend spell right from level one through pure innovation (he thought it out for a really long time and then eventually realized that he could do it). This doesn't necessarily mean he studies magic, since he doesn't understand every little intricacy that a wizard supposedly claims to understand about magic.
-----

Some guidelines on raw material costs for building, maintaining and repairing mecharmor would be nice.

What about modifying? Of course, for my campaign I could easily rule a techcraft check to modify and reduce it when it assumes that the engineer is more familiar with the mecharmor since they built it themselves.

There'd also be material and/or parts costs for modification which can be at GM discretion (I already made rules for parts in OU).


Blah Blah capstone ability blah

What about capstone vocation(s)? Some of them (or perhaps all) wouldn't have any prerequisites except requiring that the engineer be 20th level. Perhaps you could also sectionalize them into something called 'capstone vocation' which can only be taken every ten levels or whatever to prevent abuse in epic levels when an engineer ends up taking all of the capstone vocations in say, an ECL 30 game.

I was also thinking that, as a higher level vocation, the dynamo cannon could create portals - temporal dimension doors. Also the ability to teleport enemies that you attack to random locations - or locations that you program (programming might be a decipher script check or whatever) as a touch attack.

Would demand an appropriate saving throw from the enemy and is sort of magical in itself.

Lappy9000
2009-06-12, 11:35 PM
I really love this class and I think it would make an excellent addition to my campaign setting Orcs Unite! (if players ask that is; I did say I was allowing homebrew), since it's got a deal of technology paired with magic.Thankee greatly!


Although mender's touch doesn't really make sense. Standard action? That's like 3 seconds. In 3 seconds, you can't even screw in a nut - they can be darn tight after all. For the sake of fluff, I'd say that the engineer does, in fact, use a bit of magic (which is obvious after you look at the first of his vocations which give him spell-like abilities).

Mender's touch might simply be the result of his outlook on magic, his knowledge of the sciences allowed him to naturally learn how to customize a mend spell right from level one through pure innovation (he thought it out for a really long time and then eventually realized that he could do it). This doesn't necessarily mean he studies magic, since he doesn't understand every little intricacy that a wizard supposedly claims to understand about magic....Mender's touch is a Supernatural Ability. And, yes, you pretty much summed up the relations between engineers and magic right there.


What about modifying? Of course, for my campaign I could easily rule a techcraft check to modify and reduce it when it assumes that the engineer is more familiar with the mecharmor since they built it themselves.

There'd also be material and/or parts costs for modification which can be at GM discretion (I already made rules for parts in OU).Seriously, simplicity is crucial. Stuff like this starts to get complicated for the more casual players. Besides, many of the vocations are pretty much modifications. I just don't feel the need to stat out every aspect of an engineer's talents specifically when a neat little series of vocations works just fine.


What about capstone vocation(s)? Some of them (or perhaps all) wouldn't have any prerequisites except requiring that the engineer be 20th level. Perhaps you could also sectionalize them into something called 'capstone vocation' which can only be taken every ten levels or whatever to prevent abuse in epic levels when an engineer ends up taking all of the capstone vocations in say, an ECL 30 game.That would fall under "The Epic Engineer."


I was also thinking that, as a higher level vocation, the dynamo cannon could create portals - temporal dimension doors. Also the ability to teleport enemies that you attack to random locations - or locations that you program (programming might be a decipher script check or whatever) as a touch attack.Portal guns. Great idea!

Drothmal
2009-06-13, 03:08 PM
First of all, this class is so amazing that it pushed me over the fence to make an account so I could ask questions and make comments. Thanks!!

Questions:

1) I'm not sure I completely understand the amount of innovation points. Is it amount + (int modifier) (level) or just amount + (int modifier)

If the latter, wouldn't it be better to make it more like the psionic points? I mean a good int is nice at the begging, but eventually you would have enough innovation points and skill points to make choosing Int as one of your main stats less than desirable

2) Does the mecharmor increased size stack with Monkey grip: If so, someone that starts with large size, uses monkey grip, a mecharmor and a heavy material weapon could get 4 size advancements, which would make it very scary (don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a massive weapon, but I was just curious if this is within what you wanted)

3) Would engineer by the favored class for gnome?

4) Can they multiclass with Barbarian? This would seem a bit odd, and maybe trying to take advantage on stacking the rage + the mecharmor


Suggestion and comments

How about adding an equivalent to improved critical? Like giving a 18-20 crit range, but if you do you an only evolve the weapon twice


I think that the best idea is giving different caps for the different builds, some ideas could be

AT field:

Activate for 5 points, you can keep it up for 2 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, 2X armor reinforcements
You make a 5' radius field that dissipates incoming physical and magic attacks (or you could give a 10+engineer level+Int modifier SR and a 20+engineer level+Int modifier AC. Activating and holding the field is a full round action and no attacks can come from inside the field. (Yes, this was inspired on Evangelion, :smalltongue:).

Zero-Drive (stolen from the Gundam series):

Activate for 6 points, you can keep it up for 3 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, Overdrive
You use your incredible intellect to gain an insight on the battlefield, predicting movements, finding weaknesses and preempting enemies
After you activate (swift action), you become the first in the initiative order for next round. You gain a +4 bonus to Attack and +6 to AC (maybe a bit more, since it's a cap...)

Iron man (hopefully, no need to explain where this came from)
Requirements: mecharmor, maximized natural weapon damage
You make the armor smaller, give it flight, more DR, more strength and make it restricted to using the natural weapons

Charge Cannon (megamanX ftw)
Requirements: Maxed out cannon damage
You charge your weapon for X turns (charging is a full round action)
You do one blast at your maximum attack bonus + #of turns charging
You deal damage X(#of rounds charging + 1). Stacks with critical
If you move more than 5 feet a turn, you loose the charging (but you still expend the points)
Cost: A sort of Fibonacci series depending on the number of turns, like
4,6,10,16,26
I can just imagine an engineer saying, "you guys hold him for 30 seconds" and then blasting the crap away of the boss after all the party has been acting as meat shields



I also want to say how much I thank you for this awesome class!! I've been a DM for a while now and it's been a long time since I've gotten so exited about playing as a character with a class. My comments are meant with the best of intentions

Drothmal

DracoDei
2009-06-13, 04:22 PM
You know... if you hadn't made the mech-armor a requirement, I would have found a way to let gnomish engineers into the Society* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6018203&postcount=5)... even if it was Technically a seperate PrC with the same fluff and a lot of the same rules...

Wait!

I have it!

You take your armor to pieces, and using the blueprints in the Society library for inspiration, you rebuild it as a quadrupedal design for your blink-dog partner, incorporating the saddle into it!

Does that sound worth doing?


*Full name below
THE MILITANT ARM OF THE RIGHT-HONORABLE, BOTH IN BATTLEFIELD CONDUCT AND IN MORE EVERYDAY CIVILITY, GNOMISH SOCIETY FOR THE STUDY AND THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THE STORAGE OF ENERGIES OF MOTION IN WOODEN AND METAL ARMATURES AND THE RAPID RELEASE AND RESTORATION AFTER RELEASE OF THOSE ENERGIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROJECTING, WITH PRECISION, PROJECTILES, USUALLY OF A POINTED NATURE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CAUSE HARM, FREQUENTLY TO POINT OF DEATH, AND IN RARE INSTANCES MEASURES BEYOND DEATH TO THOSE THAT GARL GLITTERGOLD WHOSE PRANKS ARE ALWAYS BOTH AMUSING AND INSTRUCTIVE, AGREES WITH OUR OWN HEARTS ON THE POINT THAT THE WORLD IS DECIDEDLY AND STRONGLY LIKELY TO BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT BEING IN SUCH CONDITIONS AS MAY FROM TIME TO TIME ALLOW THEM TO PROJECT FORCE UPON OTHERS BY MEANS OF MARTIAL ENDEAVOR. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6018203&postcount=5)

TSED
2009-06-13, 05:26 PM
Random ideas:

1) Flying potion-dispensers as a vocation. Build a gizmo, select a target, it goes and attacks it with potion contents (be it cure X wounds or Super Acid).

2) On that topic, improved consumables as a vocation. Chemist Major, or some such. Some other people have stated it. I disagree that there can be too many Vocations (HOWEVER: you might want to separate them into different 'trees' for ease of use).

3) For a capstone idea...

Easily Inspired
Every moment seems to inspire you with some new hair-brained scheme.
Every time you successfully make a spot, listen, search, or knowledge check by 5 points or more over the needed DC, you regain 2 inspiration points.
Every time you knock an enemy to or below 0 hit points, you gain 3 inspiration points.
Every time an ally within 60' of you is knocked to 25% or less of their maximum hit points, you gain 4 inspiration points.
Every time YOU are knocked to or below 25% of your hit points, you regain 1 inspiration point for every 2 points of damage you have taken.
Eh? Eh? Kind of unbalances the class a smidge, but at that level wizards are waltzing around turning their familiars into Spell-Stitched Dire Half-Red-Dragon Young Adult Black Dragons and making their own demiplanes, so being able to keep up the effort might help.

Karma Guard
2009-06-13, 07:15 PM
How is that worse than the 1,000 that a suit of mecharmor costs?

I don't care about armor ( ._.)9 MORE GUN LESS RUN

And I totally forgot about homunculi. Those will do nicely.

Gorgondantess
2009-06-13, 07:41 PM
Wow. Great class, but in my opinion, the mecharmor needs expanding.
1st of all, it needs some better arsenal. How about being able to enchant the cannon? There needs to be some scaling in its abilities, or it will be quickly outdated.
Also- attatchable blades. Give it a greatsword, and maybe a vocation for a mundane shocking burst enchantment on it- running electricity through the blade.
Also, jetpacks. The mecharmor needs jetpacks. And hydraulic arms, for additional strength bonuses.
All in all, consider scaling things. The cost of the mecharmor scales- why not its abilities? Beyond just a speed bonus, I mean. Make the natural attacks and armor bonus gain an enhancement bonus equal to engineer level/4 (rounded down, of course). Maybe allow a vocation to customize where the enhancement bonus goes, so you can trade a +1 for keen, or something like that.
Anyhow, I hope you'll take my suggestions into consideration. Looks like it could be a lot of fun to play.

One last thing- can you take a feat for extra vocations?

0650
2009-06-14, 07:12 AM
My only thought would be: Can one apply magic item abilities to the dynamo cannon as a ranged weapon and/or the mech as armour? If not at high levels they become outdated as magic armour + boots of speed + belt of giant strength is for the most part a better option

Lappy9000
2009-06-14, 10:47 AM
First of all, this class is so amazing that it pushed me over the fence to make an account so I could ask questions and make comments. Thanks!!

Questions:

1) I'm not sure I completely understand the amount of innovation points. Is it amount + (int modifier) (level) or just amount + (int modifier)

If the latter, wouldn't it be better to make it more like the psionic points? I mean a good int is nice at the begging, but eventually you would have enough innovation points and skill points to make choosing Int as one of your main stats less than desirable

2) Does the mecharmor increased size stack with Monkey grip: If so, someone that starts with large size, uses monkey grip, a mecharmor and a heavy material weapon could get 4 size advancements, which would make it very scary (don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a massive weapon, but I was just curious if this is within what you wanted)

3) Would engineer by the favored class for gnome?

4) Can they multiclass with Barbarian? This would seem a bit odd, and maybe trying to take advantage on stacking the rage + the mecharmor


Suggestion and comments

How about adding an equivalent to improved critical? Like giving a 18-20 crit range, but if you do you an only evolve the weapon twice


I think that the best idea is giving different caps for the different builds, some ideas could be

AT field:

Activate for 5 points, you can keep it up for 2 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, 2X armor reinforcements
You make a 5' radius field that dissipates incoming physical and magic attacks (or you could give a 10+engineer level+Int modifier SR and a 20+engineer level+Int modifier AC. Activating and holding the field is a full round action and no attacks can come from inside the field. (Yes, this was inspired on Evangelion, :smalltongue:).

Zero-Drive (stolen from the Gundam series):

Activate for 6 points, you can keep it up for 3 points per turn.
Requirments: Mecharmor, Overdrive
You use your incredible intellect to gain an insight on the battlefield, predicting movements, finding weaknesses and preempting enemies
After you activate (swift action), you become the first in the initiative order for next round. You gain a +4 bonus to Attack and +6 to AC (maybe a bit more, since it's a cap...)

Iron man (hopefully, no need to explain where this came from)
Requirements: mecharmor, maximized natural weapon damage
You make the armor smaller, give it flight, more DR, more strength and make it restricted to using the natural weapons

Charge Cannon (megamanX ftw)
Requirements: Maxed out cannon damage
You charge your weapon for X turns (charging is a full round action)
You do one blast at your maximum attack bonus + #of turns charging
You deal damage X(#of rounds charging + 1). Stacks with critical
If you move more than 5 feet a turn, you loose the charging (but you still expend the points)
Cost: A sort of Fibonacci series depending on the number of turns, like
4,6,10,16,26
I can just imagine an engineer saying, "you guys hold him for 30 seconds" and then blasting the crap away of the boss after all the party has been acting as meat shields



I also want to say how much I thank you for this awesome class!! I've been a DM for a while now and it's been a long time since I've gotten so exited about playing as a character with a class. My comments are meant with the best of intentions

DrothmalWelcome to the forums! Your compliments make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

1) "An engineer receives innovation points in the amount listed on the table, plus his Intelligence modifier, on a daily basis." So, yes, number on the table + Intelligence modifier.

Also, what do you mean about the Innovation? Are you implying that it's bad to have too many skill points? :smallconfused:

2) I have no idea if Powerful Build stacks with Monkey Grip. The feat has gained too much infamy to get a clear source on it, and I don't own that book. Anyone got an answer? (although, to my limited understanding, I don't think it will be a problem).

3) I'm sure someone is probably gonna houserule that in.

4) Sure, although I imagine they'd stack the Rage with the Overdrive.


You know... if you hadn't made the mech-armor a requirement, I would have found a way to let gnomish engineers into the Society* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6018203&postcount=5)... even if it was Technically a seperate PrC with the same fluff and a lot of the same rules...

Wait!

I have it!

You take your armor to pieces, and using the blueprints in the Society library for inspiration, you rebuild it as a quadrupedal design for your blink-dog partner, incorporating the saddle into it!

Does that sound worth doing?


*Full name below
THE MILITANT ARM OF THE RIGHT-HONORABLE, BOTH IN BATTLEFIELD CONDUCT AND IN MORE EVERYDAY CIVILITY, GNOMISH SOCIETY FOR THE STUDY AND THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THE STORAGE OF ENERGIES OF MOTION IN WOODEN AND METAL ARMATURES AND THE RAPID RELEASE AND RESTORATION AFTER RELEASE OF THOSE ENERGIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROJECTING, WITH PRECISION, PROJECTILES, USUALLY OF A POINTED NATURE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CAUSE HARM, FREQUENTLY TO POINT OF DEATH, AND IN RARE INSTANCES MEASURES BEYOND DEATH TO THOSE THAT GARL GLITTERGOLD WHOSE PRANKS ARE ALWAYS BOTH AMUSING AND INSTRUCTIVE, AGREES WITH OUR OWN HEARTS ON THE POINT THAT THE WORLD IS DECIDEDLY AND STRONGLY LIKELY TO BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT BEING IN SUCH CONDITIONS AS MAY FROM TIME TO TIME ALLOW THEM TO PROJECT FORCE UPON OTHERS BY MEANS OF MARTIAL ENDEAVOR. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6018203&postcount=5) What do you mean "made the mecharmor a requirement?" That was the one thing I was specifically trying not to do with the class. It's an engineer, not a mechwarrior (although you can totally build one to be that way)


My only thought would be: Can one apply magic item abilities to the dynamo cannon as a ranged weapon and/or the mech as armour? If not at high levels they become outdated as magic armour + boots of speed + belt of giant strength is for the most part a better optionIt's a weapon, isn't it? Of course you can! :smalltongue:


Random ideas:

1) Flying potion-dispensers as a vocation. Build a gizmo, select a target, it goes and attacks it with potion contents (be it cure X wounds or Super Acid).

2) On that topic, improved consumables as a vocation. Chemist Major, or some such. Some other people have stated it. I disagree that there can be too many Vocations (HOWEVER: you might want to separate them into different 'trees' for ease of use).

3) For a capstone idea...

Easily Inspired
Every moment seems to inspire you with some new hair-brained scheme.
Every time you successfully make a spot, listen, search, or knowledge check by 5 points or more over the needed DC, you regain 2 inspiration points.
Every time you knock an enemy to or below 0 hit points, you gain 3 inspiration points.
Every time an ally within 60' of you is knocked to 25% or less of their maximum hit points, you gain 4 inspiration points.
Every time YOU are knocked to or below 25% of your hit points, you regain 1 inspiration point for every 2 points of damage you have taken.
Eh? Eh? Kind of unbalances the class a smidge, but at that level wizards are waltzing around turning their familiars into Spell-Stitched Dire Half-Red-Dragon Young Adult Black Dragons and making their own demiplanes, so being able to keep up the effort might help.1) Not a lot of synergy, since these guys don't make the greatest alchemists.

2) Separating the ideas into trees was the original idea, and one that didn't work out too well, hence why I'm limiting the number of vocations.

3) It's a great idea, but they're Innovation points, so the fluff doesn't fit in quite as well.


Wow. Great class, but in my opinion, the mecharmor needs expanding.
1st of all, it needs some better arsenal. How about being able to enchant the cannon? There needs to be some scaling in its abilities, or it will be quickly outdated.
Also- attatchable blades. Give it a greatsword, and maybe a vocation for a mundane shocking burst enchantment on it- running electricity through the blade.
Also, jetpacks. The mecharmor needs jetpacks. And hydraulic arms, for additional strength bonuses.
All in all, consider scaling things. The cost of the mecharmor scales- why not its abilities? Beyond just a speed bonus, I mean. Make the natural attacks and armor bonus gain an enhancement bonus equal to engineer level/4 (rounded down, of course). Maybe allow a vocation to customize where the enhancement bonus goes, so you can trade a +1 for keen, or something like that.
Anyhow, I hope you'll take my suggestions into consideration. Looks like it could be a lot of fun to play.

One last thing- can you take a feat for extra vocations?Maybe some scaling, although the greatsword idea is kind of silly (you can just pick up Martial Weapon Proficiency).

Edit: Not at the moment, no.

DracoDei
2009-06-14, 05:13 PM
Sorry, someone suggested that they all should get it and for some reason I thought you had adopted that and edited it into the main post...

Ok, so they don't HAVE to have mech-armor... would creating a parallel class for gnomish engineers who are members of the Society be worth it do you think?

Kellus
2009-06-14, 07:26 PM
Wow. This looks really incredible. Great job! I'm trying to think of ideas for a suitable capstone right now. :smallsmile:

One quick question: if you can only get Mecharmour at level 3, what's the point of having a speed bonus listed on the table for levels 1 and 2? :smallconfused:

Owrtho
2009-06-14, 08:07 PM
You can get a dig speed at level 1. It and the climb speed also use the speed bonus table.

Owrtho

Kellus
2009-06-14, 08:34 PM
Ah, good catch. Never mind! Great class! :smallredface:

Lappy9000
2009-06-14, 08:53 PM
Ah, good catch. Never mind! Great class! :smallredface:Thankee :smallbiggrin:

And thank you, Owrthro, for doing some of my Q&A for me.

Eldrys
2009-06-15, 10:16 AM
Holy Nine Hells :smalleek:

Only got one thing to say to that: :smallwink:
Let's just say that you should wait until Sunday rolls around. Although it may take a while before you actually see that.





It's past the weekend. A NEED MA' MEGA DRILL.

Lappy9000
2009-06-15, 10:19 AM
The important part is the "Although it may take a while before you actually see that." I was implying that it was one of the new weapons I'll be introducing in my campaign setting, which may take a while before anyone sees it.

I might post them up separately; I just hadn't originally planned to do so.

Eldrys
2009-06-15, 10:22 AM
The important part is the "Although it may take a while before you actually see that." I was implying that it was one of the new weapons I'll be introducing in my campaign setting, which may take a while before anyone sees it.

I might post them up separately; I just hadn't originally planned to do so.

Now all you get is this::smallfrown:

Lappy9000
2009-06-15, 10:43 AM
Now all you get is this::smallfrown:Well, I ain't posting them here; don't wanna derail the thread :smallsigh:

Eldrys
2009-06-15, 11:03 AM
Well, I ain't posting them here; don't wanna derail the thread :smallsigh:

Okay but you at least have to post a link to your campaign world. If you do I'ss throw :smallfrown: across lake Michigan and give you back a :smallsmile:.

Drothmal
2009-06-15, 12:55 PM
1) "An engineer receives innovation points in the amount listed on the table, plus his Intelligence modifier, on a daily basis." So, yes, number on the table + Intelligence modifier.

Also, what do you mean about the Innovation? Are you implying that it's bad to have too many skill points? :smallconfused:



Sorry, I did not explain myself properly: I was thinking that maybe the innovation points should depend on Int the same way that power points for psionics depend on Wis (that is, a progression of how many innovation points you get out of a certain intelligence modifier).

I think is great to have so many skill points! It totally fits with the class and I love it. I was just thinking that there should be more of an incentive in increasing the Int even further than a +3 or +4 (in which case you would have 10 SP per level, which I always think as a lot). Even though I guess you need a high Int for things such as the overdrive and such... I was just thinking that there were many possible builds in which having a very high Int might not be a priority, which feels wrong in my mind... Sorry if this statement is confusing. I'm having a hard time expressing what is bothering me about it.

Btw, what did you think of the caps?

Owrtho
2009-06-15, 01:18 PM
Just curious, but in regards to the costs on vocations, are those one time fees, or do they for some reason have to pay them every time they level even if they don't do anything to the equipment that should require cost. Also, why should it cost more to take them at higher levels than lower levels when there is nothing that makes them better by doing so? Or is the cost only paid when you take it or one of the vocations that require it, and in that case is the cost the amount times the player level or the level required to take the vocation?

Asked this before, and all you said is you were going to work on that. Wondered if you had come up with anything in regaurds to it or were still working on it. I myself would recomend something along the lines of that the cost is x per minimum level of the vocation and must be paid when taking the first vocation and any vocations that require it before you get the benefits of said vocation. Thus upon taking the mecharmor you would pay 1000 x 3 =3000. taking any of the other level 3 vocations requireing mech armor (Armor Reinforcement or Ranged Artillery) would also cost 3000. Taking Overdrive or Weapon Augmentation which require level 6 would cost 6000, etc.

Owrtho

Lappy9000
2009-06-15, 01:39 PM
Okay but you at least have to post a link to your campaign world. If you do I'ss throw :smallfrown: across lake Michigan and give you back a :smallsmile:.The big honkin' banner in mah sig :smallbiggrin:


1) "An engineer receives innovation points in the amount listed on the table, plus his Intelligence modifier, on a daily basis." So, yes, number on the table + Intelligence modifier.

Also, what do you mean about the Innovation? Are you implying that it's bad to have too many skill points? :smallconfused:

Sorry, I did not explain myself properly: I was thinking that maybe the innovation points should depend on Int the same way that power points for psionics depend on Wis (that is, a progression of how many innovation points you get out of a certain intelligence modifier).

I think is great to have so many skill points! It totally fits with the class and I love it. I was just thinking that there should be more of an incentive in increasing the Int even further than a +3 or +4 (in which case you would have 10 SP per level, which I always think as a lot). Even though I guess you need a high Int for things such as the overdrive and such... I was just thinking that there were many possible builds in which having a very high Int might not be a priority, which feels wrong in my mind... Sorry if this statement is confusing. I'm having a hard time expressing what is bothering me about it.

Btw, what did you think of the caps?Ah, I've gotcha' now. Intelligence is important to the class, but unlike a wizard, an engineer isn't going to be useless without it, which I put down as a good thing. But...putting in some more Intelligence-based abilities may not be a bad idea.


Asked this before, and all you said is you were going to work on that. Wondered if you had come up with anything in regaurds to it or were still working on it. I myself would recomend something along the lines of that the cost is x per minimum level of the vocation and must be paid when taking the first vocation and any vocations that require it before you get the benefits of said vocation. Thus upon taking the mecharmor you would pay 1000 x 3 =3000. taking any of the other level 3 vocations requireing mech armor (Armor Reinforcement or Ranged Artillery) would also cost 3000. Taking Overdrive or Weapon Augmentation which require level 6 would cost 6000, etc.

OwrthoAh, sorry, I get distracted and forget things easily. That idea is waaay better than what I planned to do. I'll put that up with haste!

Owrtho
2009-06-15, 03:23 PM
Ah, sorry, I get distracted and forget things easily. That idea is waaay better than what I planned to do. I'll put that up with haste!


Glad to see you like the idea (it also takes care of the main problem I had with the class). Though I'd suggest wording it slightly differently so that it is clear that the additional cost is for when each additional vocation is taken.

maybe "____ requires x gp. Plus an additional x gp must be spent when taking each vocation with the ____ as a prerequisite before the benefits come into effect." rather than "____ requires x gp plus an additional x gp for each vocation with the ____ as a prerequisite."

Owrtho

Eldrys
2009-06-15, 06:13 PM
The big honkin' banner in mah sig :smallbiggrin:



OK, I is happy now:smallsmile:

Partysan
2009-06-16, 06:15 AM
That is... one of the best and most flavorful homebrew I have seen in a time.

I'd add some defensive Vocations, force shields have been suggested and I think there is an mecharmour upgrade, but still, one or two more would seem nice.

What I'd also like to see is a crafting upgrade (making BETTER STUFF than others), or what about the possibility to create magic items without having spells and a caster lvl...

Partysan
2009-06-16, 10:09 AM
I really wanted to go for the magic item thing, but I can't figure out a way to do it without giving an engineer spells or turning them into an artificer..

An idea (that I stole from Szatany) would be to allow them to substitute caster level with crafting skill -3 and needed spells with scrolls.
Now you just need to work in a bonus coming from innovation points, so the items made by an engineer will be better than others^^

DracoDei
2009-06-16, 12:26 PM
VERY rough draft of the PrC is up. Still haven't even put in all the places on the chart where they get new innovations for their Cannon. Now gives vocations at 5th and 9th level... may need to beef up the capstones, but 9th level was looking really meager.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115097

Flame of Anor
2009-06-16, 12:33 PM
A walking fortress? Awesome! :smallbiggrin:
A walking fortress with 60 hit points? :smalleek: What is it, toothpicks and toilet paper? :smallconfused:

P.S. TL;DR'd the middle pages, so sorry if it's already been covered.

Lappy9000
2009-06-16, 12:35 PM
A walking fortress? Awesome! :smallbiggrin:
A walking fortress with 60 hit points? :smalleek: What is it, toothpicks and toilet paper? :smallconfused:I wrote "time's three" didn't I? :smallannoyed:

And, hey! It's 4-ply!


P.S. TL;DR'd the middle pages, so sorry if it's already been covered. I have no idea what that means.

DracoDei
2009-06-16, 01:41 PM
Auxillary members updated(Innovation and capstone), fluff still needs ending for the change-over from the main society members.

Edit: Regarding the original class, as written there are no checks involved in creating a magic item. Thus the -4 penalty is meaningless.

Eldrys
2009-06-16, 05:58 PM
Don't forget to do Epic Engineer.

13_CBS
2009-06-16, 06:02 PM
Hmm...I wonder if the mobile fortress can get hijacked, and if it can be, how easy it would be for someone to do it. :smallconfused:

Lappy9000
2009-06-16, 06:34 PM
Auxillary members updated(Innovation and capstone), fluff still needs ending for the change-over from the main society members.

Edit: Regarding the original class, as written there are no checks involved in creating a magic item. Thus the -4 bonus is meaningless.Cool Beans.

On a side note, my lack on Crafting knowledge is floodin in at an alarming rate....


Don't forget to do Epic Engineer.In due time, my friend.


Hmm...I wonder if the mobile fortress can get hijacked, and if it can be, how easy it would be for someone to do it. :smallconfused:Totally can. Of course, we're dealing with an epic level adventurer here....

0650
2009-06-20, 03:53 PM
Oh my... greatest idea ever... pit fiends in mechs... :D

Trodon
2009-06-20, 04:11 PM
Oh my... greatest idea ever... pit fiends in mechs... :D

roflmao yes

Lappy9000
2009-09-03, 08:24 PM
It's just not quite old enough to be a threadomancy, and while I normally don't do this, a couple of people had mentioned wanting to play this class in game.

So! Here is an updated engineer! Changes include:

Vocations now on every even level.
New vocations and ordering. Better customization without the level requirement.
Less Precision.
Only 1 good save.
Vocations (including spell-like ablities) now function in anti-magic fields (after all, they're SCIENCE not magic).
Dynamo Cannon and Mecharmor mechanics changed (better customization for mecharmor, more uses for dynamo cannon)

A good deal of playtesting went behind these changes, so I assure that they weren't completely unfounded. And, that's my update :smallbiggrin:

didub
2009-09-03, 08:45 PM
I was gonna run a steampunk, fallout type campaign after I wrap up this one. This, combined with artificer, are exactly what I need ;) Thank's soooo much.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-15, 02:00 PM
Only 1 good save.

Why not two or all medium saves (1+5/9 level)?

Trodon
2009-09-15, 02:35 PM
This is amazing I'm going to play this in a game, once I find one.

Trodon
2009-09-15, 02:47 PM
Vocation: A vocation is an engineer's profession, specialization, and his life's work. At first level, an engineer chooses one vocation and can pick additional vocations every three levels afterwards. Similar to feats, an engineer must meet all prerequisites and level requirements before taking a vocation. Unless otherwise stated, a vocation can only be taken once. Additionally, vocations represent an engineer’s mastery over science and technology, any spell-like abilities granted through a vocation can be cast where magic cannot normally be cast, such as within an anti-magic field.

Don't you mean "At second level and every even numbered level afterwards."?

Lappy9000
2009-09-15, 07:55 PM
Don't you mean "At second level and every even numbered level afterwards."?Yes, yes I do. Copy pasta error.

Person_Man
2009-09-16, 11:39 AM
My 2 cp:

OMG TEH ROCKZOR! In particular, you have a lot of cool Vocations. I'm totally stealing some for my Iron Man homebrew class.

The Transparency of the class is very confusing. The class has a lot of spell-like abilities. But Vocations aren't subject to SR, Dispel Magic, Anitmagic Field, etc? The magic/steampunk abilities should consistently be either spell-like or extraordinary. And if you choose extraordiniary, then be very mindful about balance issues, especially at higher levels. We don't need a class that's more powerful then the Artificer.

The Dynamo Cannon is confusing. I assume that you spend the Innovation point, and the energy modification only applies to the next attack? Is that true? Also when combined with a few more Innovations, its a bit overpowered that it has every energy type and Force. I would break up the Energy functions into separate Vocations that require the Dynamo Cannon as a pre-req, but can be switched on for minutes per level as a Swift Action at the cost of 1 or 2 Innovation points.

Also, can a Dynamo Cannon be enchanted like a normal crossbow? How does the Dynamo Cannon interact with magical bolts? I assume all three effects would stack, but it doesn't say.

I don't see why Balance, Climb, Spot, or Listen are Engineer Skills. It's not like engineers or engineer abilities lend themselves to acrobatics or scouting. I would remove them.

Conversely, I think their weapon proficiencies are a bit limited. I would expand it to all simple weapons plus all crossbows.

Improvised Mage is a bit confusing. The item creation feats require a caster levels. Plus they require spells that the Engineer would have to purchase on scrolls, and then use UMD for. I would consider something closer to the Warlock's crafting ability.

grubblybubbly
2009-09-16, 12:55 PM
whoah!!! this is such an awesome class! i yearn to try it out! my avatar looks like a engineer with mecharmour!:smallsmile:

Lappy9000
2009-09-16, 02:49 PM
OMG TEH ROCKZOR! In particular, you have a lot of cool Vocations. I'm totally stealing some for my Iron Man homebrew class. My sincerest gratitude :smallbiggrin:


The Transparency of the class is very confusing. The class has a lot of spell-like abilities. But Vocations aren't subject to SR, Dispel Magic, Anitmagic Field, etc? The magic/steampunk abilities should consistently be either spell-like or extraordinary. And if you choose extraordiniary, then be very mindful about balance issues, especially at higher levels. We don't need a class that's more powerful then the Artificer.True, but I was very careful in the spell-like abilities that the engineer gets. Very few of the abilities even allow spell-resistance, and none of them are very powerful, especially for a half-caster. But actually, Spell Resistance should still apply. I'll make that clearer.


The Dynamo Cannon is confusing. I assume that you spend the Innovation point, and the energy modification only applies to the next attack? Is that true? Also when combined with a few more Innovations, its a bit overpowered that it has every energy type and Force. I would break up the Energy functions into separate Vocations that require the Dynamo Cannon as a pre-req, but can be switched on for minutes per level as a Swift Action at the cost of 1 or 2 Innovation points.That's a good idea for a vocation, but I don't see how it's overpowered to make a single bolt deal a single energy effect for 1 Innovation, or Force for 2 Innovation. A heavy crossbow dealing 1d10 Fire damage is nice, but it's just that one energy type; you can't combine effects. 'Sides, if you break up the energy types into multiple vocations, you end up with just a +1 crossbow when you first take it, and nothing else.

It applies on your next attack, yes.


Also, can a Dynamo Cannon be enchanted like a normal crossbow? How does the Dynamo Cannon interact with magical bolts? I assume all three effects would stack, but it doesn't say.Correct on all accounts. I'll specify.


I don't see why Balance, Climb, Spot, or Listen are Engineer Skills. It's not like engineers or engineer abilities lend themselves to acrobatics or scouting. I would remove them. Vertical Mobility, and the Surveyor-based vocations focus around just those very skills.


Conversely, I think their weapon proficiencies are a bit limited. I would expand it to all simple weapons plus all crossbows.They're supposed to be limited, actually. An engineer can grab anything in a room and use it as a weapon, in addition to making a suped-up lazzor gun.


Improvised Mage is a bit confusing. The item creation feats require a caster levels. Plus they require spells that the Engineer would have to purchase on scrolls, and then use UMD for. I would consider something closer to the Warlock's crafting ability.You mean imbue item? I'll see what I can do about that.


whoah!!! this is such an awesome class! i yearn to try it out! my avatar looks like a engineer with mecharmour!:smallsmile:Your praise is greatly appreciated!

Lappy9000
2009-09-17, 01:52 PM
H'okay, I fixed the Improvised Mage and gave the engineer half-good Fortitude saves.

Also, here's the Epic Engineer for all you super-powered weirdos :smalltongue:

Diagoras
2009-09-18, 10:04 AM
First, I'd just like to say that this class is so damned sexy I'm actually physically attracted to it.

Now that we've got that awkward confession out of the way, I was wondering about something. An antimagic field would mesh very well with this class, what with most of its abilities being extraordinary, but might overpower it. Any thoughts regarding a vocation which grants an antimagic field?

Keep up the good work, I'm currently applying to a gestalt game with a 20 Engineer/10 fighter/10 Machinist. :)

Draken
2009-09-18, 10:45 AM
The class looks good. But - and I might have missed something - it doesn't seen like it has anything in particular it can do at first level, nor anything it can do with its innovation points at said level, since the first Vocation is only acquired at level two.

Is that right? :smallconfused:

Improvised Mage is also of questionable usefulness at the level it is acquired, since it is required to take the item creation feats. Since it is only obtained at level 13, it will either only be useful if you burned item creation feats that, until then, are useless, or will be useless until level 15, when you will be entitled to acquiring one item creation feat.

That, of course, ignoring that as is, Improvised Mage doesn't give a caster level to qualify for item creation feats to begin with, and even with the vocations that give spell-like abilities, the caster level is so low (CL 10 at level 20, 14 with Practiced Spellcaster) that making good magic items doesn't look very likely.

Lappy9000
2009-09-18, 11:17 AM
The class looks good. But - and I might have missed something - it doesn't seen like it has anything in particular it can do at first level, nor anything it can do with its innovation points at said level, since the first Vocation is only acquired at level two.

Is that right? :smallconfused:No, actually. You can use your innovation in crafting items. However, I just realized that the bonus is equal to your Precision bonus, which is zero at level one. I'ma gonna give them Precision at level 1 and keep up the progression (it's hardly a game-breaking thing). That gives an engineer two things to use their Innovation on.

If you're wondering why they don't get any vocations, let's just say that I don't want a lot of 1-level dips for mecharmor/dynamocannon/other awesome.


Improvised Mage is also of questionable usefulness at the level it is acquired, since it is required to take the item creation feats. Since it is only obtained at level 13, it will either only be useful if you burned item creation feats that, until then, are useless, or will be useless until level 15, when you will be entitled to acquiring one item creation feat.

That, of course, ignoring that as is, Improvised Mage doesn't give a caster level to qualify for item creation feats to begin with, and even with the vocations that give spell-like abilities, the caster level is so low (CL 10 at level 20, 14 with Practiced Spellcaster) that making good magic items doesn't look very likely. Blah, that's what happens when I change stuff. They get half caster level, but honestly, making magic items isn't the engineer's thing. I didn't want to tread into artificer territory too much, but the option is available if a player wants it.


First, I'd just like to say that this class is so damned sexy I'm actually physically attracted to it.That's creepy. But flattering! :smallbiggrin:


Now that we've got that awkward confession out of the way, I was wondering about something. An antimagic field would mesh very well with this class, what with most of its abilities being extraordinary, but might overpower it. Any thoughts regarding a vocation which grants an antimagic field?Yeeeah, they originally had an antimagic vocation (called Greater Neuroarcanics) but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get enough vocation prerequisites to justify using the high-level spells-like abilities that the vocation grants.


Keep up the good work, I'm currently applying to a gestalt game with a 20 Engineer/10 fighter/10 Machinist. :)Thank you! Be sure to drop me a PM saying how that goes!

Edit: Also made Ultravision better, and fixed a typo at the end of Mobile Fortress.

Draken
2009-09-18, 11:47 AM
Well, now there is something to be done with Inovation in combat at level one. One issue solved.

However, I think your position on the way Improvised Mage works, with 'not wishing to step into artificer territory' led you to a problem that plagues much of WotC's works. The ability was nerfed to the ground.

As is, Improvised Mage is filler, it is a gimmick, it doesn't really do anything. At the level you get it it will not be of any use and it will continue to be useless unless, two or five levels later you burn a feat to make it useable, and even then nearly useless because the caster level is still low.

I would recommend rewording it to work similarly to the class feature Secrets of the Forge, which is avaiable to Battlesmiths and to Ironsoul Forgemasters (read: Only to dwarves so far). The basic effect is that it gives you Craft Magic Arms and Armor as a bonus feat and gives you an effective caster level for crafting purposes equal to three times the level in the class (read: 3-15 for the Battlesmith or 6-30 for the Forgemaster).

In your place I would keep Craft Magic Arms and Armor as the bonus feat (or change to one bonus item creation feat of choice, but limited to Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Construct and Craft Wondrous Item probably. Rods, Wands and Staves are a small stretch and scrolls and rings just don't work in my mind).

Obviously, removing the "triple class level" part as well, changing it to "class level". The triple thing is because those are prestige classes, not base classes. And I would keep it at class level, because half class level might as well not be there.

This would also hardly go into artificer territory, since the class doesn't give a craft reserve and you are getting one feat, as opposed to all of them.

Draken
2009-09-18, 05:06 PM
It's a feature with an entirely different purpose than the spell-like abilities. I don't really see an inconsistency.

For instance, the Ironsoul Forgemaster will have Meldshaping 11 (least) to 19 (tops) while his Secrets of the Forge will have an effective level of 30.

It doesn't get any less consistent than that does it?

ninjaneer003
2010-05-06, 10:52 AM
looks like an awesome class! but why do they get a speed bonus?

Deathrevived
2010-05-07, 01:53 AM
To say that this class is well constructed, or that I would want to play it is a complete ans utter lie...

That is to say, that those descriptors do not impart nearly the level of awe, and "I want"age as what that class does.

My hat goes off to you good sir, that as well is to say, if I was wearing one

Lix Lorn
2010-05-07, 04:18 AM
This... is AWESOME. :smalleek:

Lix Lorn
2010-05-07, 04:14 PM
Well, the Truth Will Out. XD

radmelon
2010-05-07, 11:23 PM
I was looking at the "Mounted Artillery" vocation, and I was wondering something. Can the mounted crossbow reload itself?:smallconfused:
Also, for the mobile fortress, it says it can be mounted with dynamo cannon turrets. I'm assuming these work like the turrets mention above, but does it also let you build multiple dynomo cannons?

Khorebh
2010-05-09, 04:44 PM
Automatic piloting legs that grant negate the damage from forces marches and even let you walk in your sleep if you have to.


Don't tell me; you're secretly a penguin disguised as a rooster planning to steal a diamond.

Lix Lorn
2010-05-09, 04:48 PM
And these legs provide a +20 competence bonus to checks made to avoid lasers.

DracoDei
2010-05-09, 04:49 PM
Don't tell me; you're secretly a penguin disguised as a rooster planning to steal a diamond.

Huh... so THAT must have been my sub-conscious inspiration...

radmelon
2010-05-29, 11:10 AM
So what IS the limit of created dynamo cannons?
Also, isn't it difficult to qualify for the Archiater PrC without heal as a class skill?

qazzquimby
2014-05-24, 12:25 AM
Level
BAB
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Speed Bonus
Innovation


1st
+0
+1
+0
+2
Crafter Extraordinaire, Makeshift Prowess, Precision +1

2


2nd
+1
+1
+0
+3
Vocation

4


3rd
+2
+2
+1
+3
Precision +2

6


4th
+3
+2
+1
+4
Vocation
+5 ft.
8


5th
+3
+3
+1
+4
Minor Forging
+5 ft.
10


6th
+4
+3
+2
+5
Vocation
+10 ft.
12


7th
+5
+3
+2
+5
Precision +3
+10 ft.
14


8th
+6/+1
+4
+2
+6
Vocation
+15 ft.
16


9th
+6/+1
+4
+3
+6
Greater Forging
+15 ft.
18


10th
+7/+2
+5
+3
+7
Vocation
+20 ft.
20


11th
+8/+3
+5
+3
+7
Precision +4
+20 ft.
22


12th
+9/+4
+6
+4
+8
Vocation
+25 ft.
24


13th
+9/+4
+6
+4
+8
Improvised Mage
+25 ft.
26


14th
+10/+5
+6
+4
+9
Vocation
+30 ft.
28


15th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+5
+9
Precision +5
+30 ft.
30


16th
+12/+7/+2
+7
+5
+10
Vocation
+35 ft.
32


17th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+5
+10
Supreme Forging
+35 ft.
34


18th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+6
+11
Vocation
+40 ft.
36


19th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+6
+11
Precision +6
+40 ft.
38


20th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+6
+12
Mobile Fortress, Vocation
+45 ft.
40

Lappy9001
2014-05-24, 12:38 AM
Oh, wow thanks! I appreciate it!

Thanks to an ill-fated decision on my part, I'm no longer able to access the Lappy9000 account. Maybe I could ask a Mod to copy and paste the table into there?

JeminiZero
2014-05-24, 03:35 AM
Thanks to an ill-fated decision on my part, I'm no longer able to access the Lappy9000 account. Maybe I could ask a Mod to copy and paste the table into there?
Or you could repost the entire engineer class in a new thread with your new account, so that you can make additional changes (if needed), and then have a mod add link to the new thread from the old one.