A couple of venereal diseases... [PEACH]

[Lord Iames Osari]

I was recently making up a Fertility Domain (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1153198951 ), and one of it's side features is disease prevention, specifically, STD prevention.

I have heard some things that lead me to believe that the Book of Erotic Fantasy may contain some STDs, but as I do not yet have a copy, I decided to create a couple on my own.

Edit - new versions of these diseases appear on pg 4.

Fortuna's Bane (Natural):
Fort DC 5^; incubation period 1d4 weeks; 1d8 Con*.

Fortuna's Bane is a disease that first arose among prostitutes who worshipped the Goddess Fortuna. Though the Whore-Priestesses and others did their best to wipe the disease out, it persists in the seediest of brothels in cities all over Tyrath.

Succubitis (Supernatural):
Fort DC 5^; incubation period 2d4 days; 1d4 Int' and 1d4 Wis', plus unslakeable lust".

Succubitis is a disease that can only be contracted by consorting with succubi (or incubi). Only a few, rare succubi and incubi now carry the disease, since most of the disease-carriers were hunted down and wiped out by clerics of Maia, but regardless of whether they are carriers or not, all succubi (and incubi) are immune to its effects.

^Is not cured after a 3rd consecutively successful saving throw. Creatures who have intimate, unprotected contact with an infected creature take a -20 on their Fort saves to avoid infection.
*Make an additional save or 1 point of this damage is permanent ability drain.
'Make an additional Fort save against DC 10 or 1 point of this damage is permamnent drain.
"Unslakeable Lust: A creature infected with succubitis, every time it sees a creature of appropriate race and gender, must make a Will save against DC 18. On a failure, the infected creature must attempt to mate with the target creature, regardless of current circumstances. If multiple creatures might trigger this quality at once, the infected creature targets the one with the highest Charisma. This is a mind-affecting compulsion effect.

What do you think?

[Brickwall]

Succubitis appears to be a bit much. Basically, it forces anyone who catches it to go on a rape rampage when they enter a city. Not cool.
The effective DCs for both are far too high (25) for a disease.

Honestly, I am ashamed to be associated with anyone who would need so many rules on sex.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Succubitis appears to be a bit much. Basically, it forces anyone who catches it to go on a rape rampage when they enter a city. Not cool.
The effective DCs for both are far too high (25) for a disease.

Honestly, I am ashamed to be associated with anyone who would need so many rules on sex.

Well, my thinking on the DCs is, STDs are generally very, very, very hard to get unless there's intimate contact, and if there's (unprotected) intimate contact, it's very, very very, very hard not to be infected. Thus, a DC of 5, with -20 for initimate contact.

The rape rampage things does need work, I admit. Maybe if the Will DC was lower? 10 or 15, say?

And if you are ashamed, then don't post in these kinds of topics. No one is forcing you to.

Besides, I'm just trying to build a more complete game world. ;)

[Brickwall]

Seriously, it just shouldn't be there. With all the mortal nookie succubi get, the disease would be common. After a little while, tales would start to get spread around. Before you know it, only idiots have sex without having priests detect evil them both. And that'd get awkward.

So if you're trying to build a more complete game world to project your sick fantasies into you'll want to think of the ramifications of every change you make.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Oh boy, is my DM gonna run with this one.

Anyhow.
I would recommend replacing the rape thing with a reduction of sexual inhibitions--still plenty of awkward, without the (more) questionable part.

Suppose PC1 catches Succubitis. He attempts to enter a relationship with any and all PCs/NPCs that strike his fancy, with little to no subtlety about his interests. If successful, unlikely, he proceeds to "roll initiative" on the spot, with little care for public decency.

[Thomas]

So if you're trying to build a more complete game world to project your sick fantasies into you'll want to think of the ramifications of every change you make.

Yowza!


Anyway, yeah, I agree. It doesn't even fit thematically. Succubi seduce - they don't use force.

[Steward]

I'd have to join the cacophony. Unless succubi are RARE (I mean, like there are hardly any and only one or two ever come to the mortal realms), then it would essentially create a whole bunch of rapists and make the very act of walking around in densely populated areas horribly uncomfortable and dangerous.

Your Fertility domain was kind of helpful, though.

[Jarl]

Seriously, it just shouldn't be there. With all the mortal nookie succubi get, the disease would be common. After a little while, tales would start to get spread around. Before you know it, only idiots have sex without having priests detect evil them both. And that'd get awkward.
It occurs to me that "Detect Evil" and whatnot would be the D&D equivalent of getting tested before getting married (or making love, if you're a more cautious person).

-And as to Succubi not using force... well, if a non-succubi was infected with the disease, they wouldn't have the same control over their hormones that (presumably) a succubi does, if they even experience sex the same way as humans/demihumans.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Oh boy, is my DM gonna run with this one.

Anyhow.
I would recommend replacing the rape thing with a reduction of sexual inhibitions--still plenty of awkward, without the (more) questionable part.

Suppose PC1 catches Succubitis. He attempts to enter a relationship with any and all PCs/NPCs that strike his fancy, with little to no subtlety about his interests. If successful, unlikely, he proceeds to "roll initiative" on the spot, with little care for public decency.

I like that idea better!

Edit - I've reworded the description slightly to allow players to decide precisely how far their characters go. And I've made it slightly easier to resist.

Basically, my concept of succubitis is that those infected by it gradually lose control of their sex drive. I'm thinking about creating a template or something for creatures that have been reduced to 0 Int and 0 Wis by the disease, and thus lost their self-control completely.

[Squangos]

I just realised a succubus is an attractive piece of the Abyss walking around… Which is less sexy.

Anyway, these seem pretty fun mechanically. Especially if you have an exalted sorceror walk into a Succubitis hotspot… Will he decline politely while frantically searching for someone who can cure them all, spend every spell slot he has on Sleep or whatever restraining spell he has, or get infected within milliseconds?

[Magnus_Samma]

On the one hand, I've never really seen the point of including veneral diseases in fantasy... unless you're playing a game/setting with a particularly dark theme, it really just injects an element of vicious realism that doesn't really work with the usual purpose of roleplaying, i.e. escapist fantasy.

On the other hand, if you do want a more realistic and/or dark setting, inventing magical STDs is probably one of the more creative ways to do it. And inventing a way to make a PC spontaneously try to make it with every person they see has the potential to be all kinds of amusing.

I probably wouldn't use either of these in one of my games, but anyone who takes offense at this kind of thing needs to get out more. :P

[jdrich]

The suffix '-itis' refers specifically in literal terms to the inflammation of a particular piece of anatomy.

So 'succubitis' would mean an inflammation in the succubus.

Methinks a better name is in order.

[Lord Iames Osari]

The suffix '-itis' refers specifically in literal terms to the inflammation of a particular piece of anatomy.

So 'succubitis' would mean an inflammation in the succubus.

Methinks a better name is in order.

Point taken. Any suggestions?

[jdrich]

I've heard plenty of tales of people blaming beastiality on succubi. There's no reason that the 'unslakeable lust' couldn't be exchanged with a 'strange lust.'

Adding beastiality to a campaign is a necessity. I think that's written somewhere in the DMG.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I've heard plenty of tales of people blaming beastiality on succubi. There's no reason that the 'unslakeable lust' couldn't be exchanged with a 'strange lust.'

Adding beastiality to a campaign is a necessity. I think that's written somewhere in the DMG.




WHAT?! :o Are you kidding around, or something?

[Brickwall]

He's not. Minotaurs gotta come from somewhere, right? Yes, the Minotaur was created by a woman doing it wit a non-Zeus bull.

Really, with the bizarre races and half-races in D&D, you gotta think there's some weird fetishes out there.

[Steward]

Point taken. Any suggestions?


It depends. Are you dead-set on keeping the word 'succubus' in the name?


WHAT?! Shocked Are you kidding around, or something?

He is. I've seen plenty of campaigns in which there wasn't any mention of bestiality. Although bestiality is not completely out-of-place in a world that borrows so heavily on mythology.

[Squangos]

Unslakeable Lust: A creature infected with succubitis, every time it sees a creature of appropriate race and gender, must make a Will save against DC 18. On a failure, the infected creature must attempt to mate with the target creature, regardless of current circumstances. If multiple creatures might trigger this quality at once, the infected creature targets the one with the highest Charisma. This is a mind-affecting compulsion effect.
People have different ideas on what is appropriate… Hence roving bands of dragon(s)layers in your campaign.

[Steward]

People have different ideas on what is appropriate…

That might be why he said what he said. That way, if a gnome decides that he's attracted only to chromatic dragons and tarrasques and is fool enough to get Unslakeable Lust Syndrome Disorder Syndrome, then they have only themselves to blame.

[DomarSaul]

Hmm.... If the creature is an animal, beast or magical beast, that's pretty clearly bestiality. Would you count mating with monstrous humanoids, aberrations or dragons as bestiality, though?

[Lord Iames Osari]

It depends. Are you dead-set on keeping the word 'succubus' in the name?

No.

[Magnus_Samma]

I find it intrinsically hilarious that someone who accepts sexual concourse with demons as a common occurence would be surprised by the insinuation that beastiality occurs as well. XD

[Tengu]

If you consider breeding between two different intelligent species beastiality, then it is common as hell in DND.

[Brickwall]

If you consider breeding between two different intelligent species beastiality, then it is common as hell in DND.

Bestiality: sexual relations between a human being and a lower animal

I looked it up. So, depending on your point of view, there's either little or a shirtload of bestiality going on in standard D&D.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I find it intrinsically hilarious that someone who accepts sexual concourse with demons as a common occurence would be surprised by the insinuation that beastiality occurs as well. XD

Well, succubi at least look human...

[Serpentine]

Damn you Tengu! I'm reading through the Iron Avatarist thread as I'm reading this, only up to page 6, and you've just given away part of the ending! Grrrrr.

Anyways, entirely unfair scolding over... I like the alternate version of Succubitis, which basically makes people horny. As for people insisting that Succubi as carriers would make the disease run rampant, he covered that in the description: "Only a few, rare succubi and incubi now carry the disease, since most... were hunted down... by clerics".
I think the DCs are a little harsh, as it is not actually guaranteed that if you screw a carrier you'll catch it, and in fact you have a good chance of overcoming, repelling, or just not contracting many of them. Also keep in mind it's usually bodily fluids that carry the disease, and it's just coincidence that sex happens to involve the exchange of these (I can see Succubitis, as a supernatural disease, being strictly sexually transmitted).
How about Succubitis as a syndrome of some sort? They're often named after people, too.
As for people having Detect Evil cast before getting it on, what about a type of condom, some sort of charm, or Resist Disease? There are ways and ways to protect from STDs. Am I correct to assume these diseases can be cured by magical means? What about mundane?
I'd also like to see a proper description of Fortuna's Bane, and any others you might make. Is there any itching? Discharge? Swelling? Illness? Does the Con damage represent their wasting away? What happens if they get pregnant while they have it? Will the child have any lasting effects, or will it have the disease itself?

[Lord Iames Osari]

As for people insisting that Succubi as carriers would make the disease run rampant, he covered that in the description: "Only a few, rare succubi and incubi now carry the disease, since most... were hunted down... by clerics".
Actually, that was an edit. The disease, as originally presented, did make the carriers go on rape sprees.


I think the DCs are a little harsh, as it is not actually guaranteed that if you screw a carrier you'll catch it, and in fact you have a good chance of overcoming, repelling, or just not contracting many of them. Also keep in mind it's usually bodily fluids that carry the disease, and it's just coincidence that sex happens to involve the exchange of these (I can see Succubitis, as a supernatural disease, being strictly sexually transmitted).
How about Succubitis as a syndrome of some sort? They're often named after people, too.
As for people having Detect Evil cast before getting it on, what about a type of condom, some sort of charm, or Resist Disease? There are ways and ways to protect from STDs. Am I correct to assume these diseases can be cured by magical means? What about mundane?
I'd also like to see a proper description of Fortuna's Bane, and any others you might make. Is there any itching? Discharge? Swelling? Illness? Does the Con damage represent their wasting away? What happens if they get pregnant while they have it? Will the child have any lasting effects, or will it have the disease itself?

Both diseases can be cured by magical means - the remove disease spell. Neither can be cured by mundane means. Condoms would work in preventing either disease, assuming they were made and used properly.

Fortuna's Bane is basically like HIV/AIDS, only probably slightly weaker. You're pretty much normal except that your immune system goes down the tubes. Succubitis, as you pointed out, makes you horny. No swelling or any of that for either of these two. If you get pregnant while you have Succubitis, your child will be born normal and healthy. If you get pregnant while you have Fortuna's Bane, I'd say the mother has to make a Fort save, and on a failure, the child is infected.

[Tengu]

Damn you Tengu! I'm reading through the Iron Avatarist thread as I'm reading this, only up to page 6, and you've just given away part of the ending! Grrrrr.


What part? The one when Aeris dies? I'm always surprised when people don't know that, unless someone spent the last decade in a secluded monastery they should've heard about it at least once. But don't worry, I'll give you an even bigger spoiler - Anakin is actually Darth Vader! And he is Luke's father!

[Serpentine]

No, the part where you win. Congrats by the way, you deserved it by far. I've never even looked at a FF game, but Elan as a kittycat is so cute, and very well done OOTS style, and I should say something about STDs to keep with the thread... got any others to show us, Iames?

[Thomas]

What part? The one when Aeris dies? I'm always surprised when people don't know that, unless someone spent the last decade in a secluded monastery they should've heard about it at least once. But don't worry, I'll give you an even bigger spoiler - Anakin is actually Darth Vader! And he is Luke's father!

NNnnnooooooooooooo!

[Tengu]

Went to WC, noticed there what did you have in mind, went back to edit my post - bam, a response already... you're fast.

As for the topic... wouldn't Fortuna's Bane, if undetected, kill almost anyone in 2d4 or 3d4 weeks? That sounds a bit harsh. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Well, the -20 only apllies to the save to resist being infected. Once you're infected, the -20 goes away, and you're making Fort saves against DC 5. Which probably wouldn't kill most people in 3d4 weeks. Unless... how often are people supposed to make saves against disease? I can't remember.

Oh, and I have no more STDs.

Wait... Did that sound kind of wrong?

[Serpentine]

bam, a response already... you're fast.
So I'm told ;)

Uh...

LOOK OVER THERE, IAMES IS IMPLYING SOMETHING!

[Lord Iames Osari]

Yes, I am implying that I actually exist in Tyrath, and am using my psionic powers to access this thing you call the "Internet." ;D

And fortunately, the clerics were able to identify and cure the diseases before they did any damage.


Basically, my concept of succubitis is that those infected by it gradually lose control of their sex drive. I'm thinking about creating a template or something for creatures that have been reduced to 0 Int and 0 Wis by the disease, and thus lost their self-control completely.

Lustdriven Template
No Int score
Rage 3/day (as 1st level barbarian)
Loses all Int-related skills and abilities, all weapon and armor porficencies, and gains Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple as bonus feats.
Carries and can spread succubitis, but takes no damage from it.
Still subject to the Unslakeable lust trait.

No idea what the CR adjustment for this should be.

[Brickwall]

Even animals have an intelligence of at least 1, and those are driven purely by instinct. An intelligence of - means an absolute lack of ability to process information or respond or anything. Without intelligence, even instinct is gone. To move, the body would need to be controlled by some other force (a dominate spell temporarily reduces the effective intelligence of the creature to - and then controlls the creature).

Try eliminating Wisdom. That's the more commonly accepted way of making people go nuts.

[Squangos]

Lustdriven Template
No Int score
Rage 3/day (as 1st level barbarian)
Loses all Int-related skills and abilities, all weapon and armor porficencies, and gains Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple as bonus feats.
Carries and can spread succubitis, but takes no damage from it.
Still subject to the Unslakeable lust trait.

No idea what the CR adjustment for this should be.
Sounds like a +1 at most to me… Maybe even +0, since they aren't gaining much combat prowess (loss of intelligence means loss of tactics, I feel, so they may even be weaker than that).

[The Glyphstone]

I'd say +0, considering the loss of Intelligence also takes away all skills and feats (except for the bonus feats granted by the template).

[Lord Iames Osari]

Even animals have an intelligence of at least 1, and those are driven purely by instinct. An intelligence of - means an absolute lack of ability to process information or respond or anything. Without intelligence, even instinct is gone. To move, the body would need to be controlled by some other force (a dominate spell temporarily reduces the effective intelligence of the creature to - and then controlls the creature).

Try eliminating Wisdom. That's the more commonly accepted way of making people go nuts.

Vermin have no Int score, and they do fine.

You already have to be reduced to Int 0 and Wis 0 by succubitis before you gain this template.

It says in the rules, "Anything without a Wisdom score ... is an object, not a creature."

So... should the creature type change to vermin? ???

[Brickwall]

Actually, I believe plants lack an Int score. Hmm...

Okay, that hurts my brain. Maybe a new creature type is in order.

[martyboy74]

Or you could put a note at the bottom of the lustdriven template entry...

[Lord Iames Osari]

Or you could put a note at the bottom of the lustdriven template entry...

I don't follow. A note saying what?

[The Glyphstone]

That they function even without a Wisdom score. That's what I did with the contest entry I made (weird extraplanar beasties), and it worked fine.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Okay, new version:

Lustdriven Template
The lustdriven template is an acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature. That creature must have been reduced to 0 Int and 0 Wis by succubitis before acquiring this template.
Size is unchanged.
The creature gains the ability to rage 3/day as 1st level barbarian
The creature loses all weapon and armor proficiencies, and gains Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple as bonus feats.
The creature carries and can spread succubitis, but takes no damage from it. The creature cannot be cured of succubitis, and is still subject to unslakeable lust.
The creature's Intelligence and Wisdom scores become 2.
CR +0.

[stainboy]

Succubitis sounds intensely fun. For me, the DM, not for the player I trick into contracting it.

File that one with rust monsters and my "undead reverse campaign" idea (where the players roll a party of high-level adventurers to take on the biggest, baddest undead in the kingdom, and spend the whole campaign killing weaker and weaker undead and getting level-drained to match). Loads of fun to do, not much fun to have done to you.

[Mike_Lemmer]

Reminds me of Futurama's "death by snu-snu". Succubitus would incapacitate any character in a big city, however. Plus it really isn't... subtle, which is another succubus trait. I'd suggest changing it to a sexual addiction:

Phase 1: Vampiric nymphomania. The victim must have sex X times a day or he goes into withdrawal and starts losing stats. If he goes into withdrawal, he must make a Will save or go to desperate measures to satiate his hunger.

Phase 2: Escalated fetishism. After the first week, the infected victim must make a Will save or find he isn't satiated with the usual. For each failure, he must satisfy some exotic/disturbing fetish once a day. These can stack to "The Aristocrats"-level absurdity.

Phase 3: Scandal!

Side Effects: Any children the victim spawns while infected are born as Tieflings.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Revised Editions!

Fortuna's Bane (Natural):
Fort DC 1^; incubation period 1d4 weeks; 1d8 Con*.

Fortuna's Bane is a disease that first arose among prostitutes who worshipped the Goddess Fortuna. Though the Whore-Priestesses and others did their best to wipe the disease out, it persists in the seediest of brothels in cities all over Tyrath. Saves against Fortuna's Bane need be made only once every month.

Succubitis (Supernatural):
Fort DC 1^; incubation period 2d4 days; 1d4 Int* and 1d4 Wis*, plus unslakeable lust".

Succubitis is a disease that can only be contracted by consorting with succubi (or incubi). Only a few, rare succubi and incubi now carry the disease, since most of the disease-carriers were hunted down and wiped out by clerics of Maia, but regardless of whether they are carriers or not, all succubi (and incubi) are immune to its effects. It causes its sufferers to slowly lose control of their sex drive. Sufferers of succubitis need only save against the ability damage once per month; the unshakeable lust trait must be saved against whenever the trigger conditions are met. This disease can only be cured by a remove disease spell casts by a character with 18 caster levels. Creatures reduced to 0 Intelligence and 0 Wisdom by succubitis gain the lustdriven template, described below.

^Is not cured after the 3rd consecutive successful saving throw. Creatures who have intimate, unprotected contact with an infected creature take a -30 on their Fort saves to avoid infection.
*Make an additional Fort save against DC 10 or 1 point of this ability damage is permanent ability drain.
"Unslakeable Lust: A creature infected with succubitis, every time it sees a creature of appropriate race and gender, must make a Will save against DC 15. On a failure, the infected creature must attempt to mate with the target creature, regardless of current circumstances. If multiple creatures might trigger this quality at once, the infected creature targets the one with the highest Charisma. This is a mind-affecting compulsion effect.

Lustdriven Template
The lustdriven template is an acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal humanoid or monstrous humanoid, hereafter referred to as the base creature. The base creature must have been reduced to 0 Int and 0 Wis by succubitis before acquiring this template.

Size/Type: As base creature.
Hit Dice: As base creature.
Initiative: As base creature.
Speed: As base creature.
Armor Class: As base creature.
Base Attack/Grapple: As base creature.
Attack: As base creature.
Full Attack: As base creature.
Space/Reach: As base creature.
Special Attacks: The lustdriven creature gains the lethal strike and rage special attacks. It retains all the special attacks of the base creature.
Special Qualities: The lustdriven creature gains the carrier and unslakeable lust special qualities. It retains all the special attacks of the base creature.
Saves: As base creature.
Abilities: As base creature, except that Intelligence and Wisdom are 2.
Skills: As base creature.
Feats: Lustdriven creatures lose all weapon and armor proficiencies, and gain Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Superior Unarmed Strike as bonus feats.
Environment: As base creature.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: As base creature.
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: As base creature, except that if the creature previously advanced by class, it no longer does so. Instead, it gains hit dice according to its type, even if it would not normally be able to do so.
Level Adjustment: ~

Carrier (Ex): Lustdriven creatures carry succubitis. It takes no damage from the disease, but can spread it.
Lethal Strikes (Ex): Lustdriven creatures can deal lethal damage with their unarmed strikes at no penalty.
Rage (Ex): Lustdriven creatures gain the ability to rage 3/day as 1st level barbarian and whenever their unslakeable lust ability is triggered.
Unslakeable Lust (Su): A lustdriven creature, every time it sees a creature of appropriate race and gender, must make a Will save against DC 15. On a failure, the infected creature must attempt to mate with the target creature, regardless of current circumstances. If multiple creatures might trigger this quality at once, the infected creature targets the one with the highest Charisma. This is a mind-affecting compulsion effect.

Creatures who succumb to succubitis find their higher thought processes slowing; eventually, they stop altogether. When that happens, raw instinct takes over, particularly the urge to breed, magnified by succubitis's effects.