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Mark Hall
2009-06-13, 11:44 PM
My friend/DM Matt and I spent some time coming up with a prestige class for Pathfinder. We're both a fan of summoning-types, though he prefers wizards and I prefer druids. As such, we wanted to make a class that will handle both, without particularly overpowering them. While this gives a lot of power to summoning-focused casters, it does a couple of things specifically to limit them.

1) It costs them 3 spellcaster levels, meaning they get 9th level spells at 20th level (never if they're a sorcerer), and don't get capstone abilities for wizard specializations (such as the Conjurer's "Summon things for a day" ability)
2) It heavily limits the wildshape ability of a druid... while a druid with it can wildshape all day, they lose out on the upper levels of wildshape power, a couple important druid abilities (like A Thousand Faces and Timeless Body).

I invite you to comment here, or at my blog: http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/30809.html

Requirements: Able to cast 3rd level spells of the summoning sub-school
Augment Summoning and Spell Focus: Conjuration
Knowledge Nature or Knowledge Planes 5

1 Can telepathically communicate with any creature you summoned w/i 100 feet

2 Greater Augment Summoning: May add +2 to any one ability score of summoned creatures, which stacks with Augment Summoning, and may be chosen at the time of casting. All creatures summoned must increase the same ability +1 Caster level

3 Damage Reduction: To creatures summoned via spells of the summoning subschool, either one damage reduction is increased by 5, or creatures without damage reduction gain DR 5/magic +1 Caster level

4 Greater Augment Summoning: May add +4 to one ability score, and +2 to another ability score, which stacks with Augment Summoning, and may be chosen at the time of casting. All creatures summoned must increase the same abilities, in the same amounts. +1 Caster level

5 Increase Summons: Summon one additional of any creature summoned via Summon Monster or Summon Nature Ally Spell. All Summon Nature's Ally and Summon Monster spells are automatically considered Extended without raising spell level. This does not stack with Extend Spell.

6 Greater Augment Summoning: Bonuses from Greater Augment Summoning improve to +6/+4/+2. All creatures summoned must increase the same abilities, in the same amounts. +1 Caster Level

7 Greater Damage Reduction: Creatures summoned by spells of the summoing subschool gain DR 5/Adamantine and Magic. +1 Caster level

8 Greater Augment Summoning: Bonuses from Greater Augment Summoning improve to +8/+6/+4/+2. All creatures summoned must increase the same abilities, in the same amounts. +1 Caster level

9 Maximize Summoning: When using Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally to summon creatures below the level of the spell, you automatically summon the maximum amount allowed. For example, if using Summon Nature's Ally II to summon wolves (from the Summon Nature's Ally I list), you will gain 3 wolves, instead of 1D3 (plus the one additional from Increased Summoning).

10 Enhanced Summoing: Up to three times per day, you may sacrifice a spell of 3rd level or lower with a range of Touch or greater during the casting of a Summon Nature's Ally or Summon Monster spell. The spell sacrificed applies to all creatures summoned by that spell. +1 Caster level

peacenlove
2009-06-14, 04:40 AM
Nice work there :) Some quick thoughts.
Where are the saves, hd, B.a.b ?

Also that class should benefit greatly with some protection against dispels directed on your summons. Since you will take a hit on your caster level it will be actually easier to dispel your summons.

Lastly the capstone ability is rather weak since a feat exist that does the same thing at will. I suggest moving the dispel protection there too (maybe make it like "if your summons are successfully dispelled they reappear at the same position after 1d4 rounds")

Cieyrin
2009-06-14, 08:05 AM
I agree with Peacenlove on making your summons harder to dispel, possibly spread out over the progression. Also, a table could benefit you greatly, the code for which is available in the Intro to Homebrewing sticky at the top of the Homebrew Forum page.

I would also suggest having a look, provided you have access to Complete Mage, at the Master Specialist PRC, specifically for Conjuring and some of the feats in that book for ideas on how to improve on summoning spells.

Mark Hall
2009-06-14, 11:27 AM
Nice work there :) Some quick thoughts.
Where are the saves, hd, B.a.b ?

Will good, HD 1d6, BAB 1/2. We'd talked those out, but I started the notes after that was settled.



Also that class should benefit greatly with some protection against dispels directed on your summons. Since you will take a hit on your caster level it will be actually easier to dispel your summons.

Lastly the capstone ability is rather weak since a feat exist that does the same thing at will. I suggest moving the dispel protection there too (maybe make it like "if your summons are successfully dispelled they reappear at the same position after 1d4 rounds")

We were kinda uncertain on the capstone, as well, which is part of why we moved the 3rd no-CL increase level to 9th. I like the idea of dispel protections for the summons... perhaps cover the dead levels with those, making them on par or above to resist dispel.

themaque
2009-06-15, 06:42 AM
Hi, Co-Author here. The Dispel protections are alright, but how often do they honestly come into play? A GM might make them more prevalent if they see summoned monsters showing up more, but i honestly rarely ever had people try to dispel my spells, especially something honestly fairly short lived like a summon monster.

What if the ability to add spells to your summons was gained at a lower level, and an end cap ability upped the level to 4th or 5th level?

What if you gained an additional +1 monsters as well?

Set
2009-06-15, 08:53 AM
Assorted thoughts;

The varying stat adjustments by level seem a bit heavy on the book-keeping, particularly with the option of making them choosable at the time of casting by the Master Summoner. I'd probably go with something that just added a set value. Perhaps start with +2 Dex, then add +2 to Str/Con (over that granted by Augment Summons), then another +2 Dex, etc.

Summoning-specific 'metamagic' options might be an interesting tweak, such as an option to summon a creature that is advanced one size category (with minimum HD for the new size category, and only affecting creatures that advance in size this way!), by increasing the spell level by 2 or 3 or so.

An option to 'template' creatures summoned, by increasing the spell level by the LA adjustment of the template, would also be neat, with the summoner gaining one template option per level of the PrC (choosing from a list, such as the ones in Manual of the Planes, or Monster Manual, Fire Elemental, Pseudonatural, Shadow Creature, Half-Celestial, Half-Fey, Half-Elemental, etc.). A Sorcerer who summons a Fiendish Wolf with the Half-Fiend template would cast it as a 5th level spell, while one who summons the same Wolf with the Half-Dragon (red) template would cast it as a 4th level spell.

One feature that seems really useful would be something that helps the Summoner deal with the problem of a single 1st level spell, Protection from Good/Evil/Chaos/Law blocking the physical attacks of summoned monsters of any level (as well as Dispel Magic potentially sending them away). Allowing a Master Summoner to modify his Summon Monster / Nature's Ally spells in such a way as to become *Calling* spells instead of Summoning spells would completely solve that. The Master Summoner's summoned creatures would remain for the same duration and operate normally, but be able to pass through Protection from [Alignment] spells and be no longer susceptible to Dispel Magic (although they would remain Extraplanar creatures, in the case of Summon Monster, and would be susceptible to Banishment!).

Other options include the old favorites, faster (standard action) casting times, etc.

Love the free Extend concept, but simply increasing the duration by the number of levels in the PrC might flow more smoothly than having a set point at which the duration doubles. A Wizard 10 / Master Summoner 5 would get an extra 5 rounds of duration to each of his Summon Monster spells under this variation.

Some sort of text on whether or not other Summon spells that follow this style, such as Summon Undead I-IX (Spell Compendium), or Conjure Ice Beast I-IX (Frostburn), or Summon Desert Ally I-IX (Sandstorm), or Summon Underdark Slave (Plot & Poison), would benefit from the Master Summoner's abilities might be useful as well.

Mark Hall
2009-06-15, 09:59 AM
We specifically avoided adding HD... considering what they wind up changing (BAB, saves, and HP), we considered adding stat bonuses to be an easier solution.

peacenlove
2009-06-15, 10:27 AM
Hi, Co-Author here. The Dispel protections are alright, but how often do they honestly come into play? A GM might make them more prevalent if they see summoned monsters showing up more, but i honestly rarely ever had people try to dispel my spells, especially something honestly fairly short lived like a summon monster.

What if the ability to add spells to your summons was gained at a lower level, and an end cap ability upped the level to 4th or 5th level?

What if you gained an additional +1 monsters as well?

About dispel: In every encounter i have participated so far (on games higher than 7th level) includes an area dispel especially if there are summoned creatures around. Heck your buddy cleric might toss one area dispel in order to debuff 2+ spell casters or potion (or UMD)-buffed characters/creatures. Also this class is prone to lose ALL of its class features when faced against a whole line of spells.

Having said that if dispel magic (and its family) is not much of an issue in your experience i would consider adding to the limit of the buffs up to 5th because the other option (+1 creature) means that your games will be very long since the more the creatures you summon the more time you spend on managing them.

themaque
2009-06-15, 02:51 PM
okay increased resistance to dispel, maybe get the spell buff for summoning lower and the end cap increased the spell level to 5th? that's... a pretty wild end cap ability. I could summon monsters with improved invisible, stoneskin, air walk..... well looking at it really nice but not overly done unless you start getting into alternate spells.