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View Full Version : A Quick Question: Versatile Spell-Casting / Master Transmogrifist / War-Shaper



WeeFreeMen
2009-06-15, 02:33 AM
Hello again all. Im making a BBEG Shape changer type for my campaign, and I would love to run these 2 PrCs as Ive always wanted to actually play one, so I turn to you guys for your help and advice as usual. Thank you for your time in advance.

First off:

The entry requirement for both the Transmogrifist and the Warshaper both state - Able to Cast Polymorph Spell (and for Transmogrifist the Alter Self spell as well). Now I find that wording not to sound, as "Able" can mean a whole spectrum of things, at least by my definition.

Does the feat "Versatile Spellcaster" (Races of the Dragon, p.101) allow a caster (lets say Sorcerer) who can only cast 3rd level spells to sacrifice 2 third level spells In order to cast a 4th level spell. In this cast giving our caster "the ability" or "able to" cast Polymorph levels earlier than would be normally allowed?

Spoiler for visual aid of what Im trying to talk about, cause Its confusing me just trying to type it out. :smallconfused:


Lv. 6 Sorcerer
Has a high enough Charisma to get an additional 3rd level slot.
->
Sacrifices two 3rd level slots to attain a 4th level slot, and gains the ability to cast Alter Self / Polymorph
->
This in turn makes him eligible for both PrC's
->
??? Profit ???


PrC Prerequisites:


Warshaper
To qualify to become a warshaper, a character must fulfi ll all
the following criteria.
Race: Any (but see below).
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Special: Must be able to change shape in one of the following
fi ve ways:
• Change shape supernatural ability (aranea, hound archon,
barghest, doppelganger, rakshasa, slaad).
• Shapechanger subtype (lycanthropes, phasm).
• Polymorph as a spell-like ability (astral deva, planetar, solar,
couatl, marilith, bronze dragon, gold dragon, silver dragon,
efreeti, leonal guardinal, night hag, ogre mage, pixie).
• Able to cast the polymorph spell.
• Wild shape or similar class feature (bear warrior*, druid).
The alternate form ability (possessed by quasits, vampires,
and others) is insuffi cient to become a warshaper.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Master Transmogrifist
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Skills: Bluff 2 ranks, Disguise 5 ranks.
Feat: Eschew Materials.
Spells: Able to cast alter self and polymorph.


AND In-case I am completely and utterly wrong, IS there a way to get 4th level spells asap rather than taking the levels? By this I mean being able to meet both Pre-Reqs for both PrC's?

Perhaps 5 levels of a base class, 10 of Transmogrifist, 5 of Warshaper

Secondly:
What would be 3 good choices for "Favored Shapes"
-Keep In mind-
Utility, Health, Damage, etc

AND do you have any nifty or cheesy tricks with Polymorph / Alter Self?

Thanks for the help all. Really appreciated.

(Also, any build advice would be appreciated. v.3.0-3.5, all and any books)

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-06-15, 03:09 AM
No, Versatile Spellcaster only allows you to sacrifice two spell slots of the same level to cast one spell you know of one level higher. The character in question has 0 4th level spells known, and therefore cannot cast Polymorph, even though he could cast 4th level spells if he knew any. One possible solution to this would be to go Sorcerer 6/ Wizard 1, and add Polymorph to your Wizard spell book. You would know the spell, despite it being on another class's spells known, and would be able to cast it. You may as well go Kobold Sorcerer 7 with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) in that case, or maybe Kobold Sorcerer 5/ Wizard 1.

Another idea would be to adapt Master Transmogrifist to Psionics, replace Polymorph with Metamorphosis, and make a Changeling Psion with the Egoist 5 racial substitution level from Races of Eberron, though there would be no replacement for Alter Self.

Warshaper 5 isn't that great, especially on a spellcaster considering Shapechange. Warshaper 1-3 is useful, but the 4th and 5th levels are entirely optional on every single build that uses the class.

Master Transmogrifist 10 is only useful because you can add a Will-O’-Wisp's magic immunity to any form you take. If not for that one solitary trick, the class would not be worth taking on any character outside of a gestalt game.

For this particular character, I'd recommend using the Arcane Swordsage variant under the Adaptation heading on page 20 of ToB. Go Changeling, Swordsage 6/ Warshaper 4/ Master Transmogrifist 10, taking Martial Study at level 9 to gain Polymorph. When Master Transmogrifist adds +1 level of spellcasting, apply it to your Swordsage maneuvers and stances, and the four levels that it doesn't advance spellcasting would count half toward your initiator level. At level 20 he'd have an initiator level of 16, for 8th level maneuvers/spells/stances. That's probably less cheesy as any early entry trick you'd be able to pull, and probably a stronger combatant. He could use Polymorph at will just by recovering it as any other maneuver, so Warshaper 5 isn't really necessary. Note that any buff with a 1 minute/level duration such as Shield could probably be up constantly, since he can use it then recover it immediately afterward. Nerveskitter is also a must have, since he'd get to reuse it every encounter. I'm playing an arcane swordsage currently, and at-will Greater Mage Hand is one of the best things ever.

Fixer
2009-06-15, 07:38 AM
If you aren't stuck on your racial choice, go Changeling. They meet the shapechanging requirements racially. Then you only need the +4 BAB.

Four levels of barbarian?

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-15, 04:28 PM
5/10/5 for a spell caster is just plain pointless if you're going Master Transmogrifist/Warshaper. Any spellcaster 20 will end your BBEG in three to four rounds, or worse: Make him completely and utterly ineffective. It's not a good idea.

However, if you still want to do this then Changeling(or Human) Wizard 5/Master Trans 10/Warshaper 5 qualifies with a Polymorph scroll purchased at level 5 and Versatile Spellcaster taken at 3rd. Alter Self would be either provided by changeling's racials or just selected as a normal wizard level-up spell.

Nate the Snake
2009-06-15, 05:32 PM
For this particular character, I'd recommend using the Arcane Swordsage variant under the Adaptation heading on page 20 of ToB...
That's probably less cheesy as any early entry trick you'd be able to pull, and probably a stronger combatant.

I'm pretty sure that the Arcane Swordsage is not "less cheesy" by any stretch of the imagination.


Another idea would be to adapt Master Transmogrifist to Psionics, replace Polymorph with Metamorphosis, and make a Changeling Psion with the Egoist 5 racial substitution level from Races of Eberron, though there would be no replacement for Alter Self.

I second this idea. You'd still lose quite a few manifester levels, but a Changeling Egoist 5/Psionic Master Transmogrifist 10/Warshaper 5 gets the best of both shapeshifting PrCs and would make an interesting character.

WeeFreeMen
2009-06-15, 07:07 PM
Thank you all for your replies / advice.

Really appreciate it.

Chronos
2009-06-15, 07:44 PM
5/10/5 for a spell caster is just plain pointless if you're going Master Transmogrifist/Warshaper. Any spellcaster 20 will end your BBEG in three to four rounds, or worse: Make him completely and utterly ineffective. It's not a good idea.He didn't say that the PCs were 20th level, though: He might be using the relatively weak PrCs to balance out the BBEG being a significantly higher level than the characters.

WeeFreeMen
2009-06-16, 12:59 AM
He didn't say that the PCs were 20th level, though: He might be using the relatively weak PrCs to balance out the BBEG being a significantly higher level than the characters.

Chronos is right :p
I know the PrC's arent the Strongest, but I have ALWAYS wanted to play one, so I get to have my fun, and they get a decent boss.

They will be 10-12 when they fight this guy.
If that proves to hard or to easy Ill adjust the HD he can use to shape shift.