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View Full Version : How would a KOTOR character compare to a DND character?



TMC
2009-06-15, 10:57 PM
The systems are the same, so with that out of the way, do you think your KOTOR char could take on one of your campaigns? Or even better, do you think one of your campaigns could take them?

Do keep in mind that I've never played the tabletop game, so while I know some things, I'm for the most part in the dark as far as DND proper goes.

shadzar
2009-06-15, 11:02 PM
Which systems? MMO? CRPG? 4th edition and Saga? :smallconfused:

Sanguine
2009-06-15, 11:05 PM
IIRC, KotoR is does not use the DnD system it uses the Star Wars Role-Playing system, which is similar but different.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-15, 11:06 PM
KOTOR is vaguely d20, but doesn't use any of the d20 Star Wars systems. It's even less like SWd20 and SW:SAGA than NWN is like D&D 3.X.

AstralFire
2009-06-15, 11:10 PM
KOTOR'd get stomped. Don't think they have iterative attacks, they do get max dice rolls, but damage doesn't go up nearly as fast, their saves are much lower, AC and to-hit is lower, they don't have any tricks comparable to even late end Bo9S stuff...

Waspinator
2009-06-15, 11:17 PM
It's hard to compare since we don't get all of the math in the KOTOR games. It definitely is some kind of d20, but it's modified from any of the Star Wars d20 systems, much less standard D&D.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-06-15, 11:21 PM
Juyo master with Force Speed. HP in the hundreds, damage in the hundreds, obscene speed to get to melee. They get next to you and you're screwed.

But then D&D character casts Forcecage, and 20 save-or-dies.

sofawall
2009-06-15, 11:22 PM
Well, if you're tricky you can figure out most of the math, some may not make sense D&D-wise, but overall, it's pretty simple.

Also, at low-mid all the way to high levels KOTOR would get stomped, repeatedly.

Starbuck_II
2009-06-15, 11:22 PM
KOTOR'd get stomped. Don't think they have iterative attacks, they do get max dice rolls, but damage doesn't go up nearly as fast, their saves are much lower, AC and to-hit is lower, they don't have any tricks comparable to even late end Bo9S stuff...

Kotor as in the video game?
Well, Kotor has per 3-5 rounds powers (that is my estimate of how long before they come back).

Kotor does have multiple attacks, you can move a full attack (like 3.0 D&D), saves are decent, and AC is okay but no magic items hurts.

Although, if the KotOR person has customizable stuff like Bendak's blaster then that helps like 3 good crystals for his lightsaber.

They can deflect rays with lightsaber (so no enervations).

Force Kill can kill any target that has less han 1/2 hps instantly no save. So that is like a Power Word 1/2 hps (but no SR as it isn't magic).

They can get elemental resistance with that one Force power. Haste with the other one.

They can use Personal Shields but only certain shields block physical damage (Mandalarin and Echini)

JoshuaZ
2009-06-16, 12:11 AM
This is not a well-defined question we don't know what the actual equivalents are. Just because two things have been labeled as say 1d6 damage doesn't mean a hit point in one equals a hit point in the other. And the systems are different enough that you can't just do a straight calculation approach either.

Coidzor
2009-06-16, 01:55 AM
I'd say the ruling that psionic and spell resistance apply against both magic and psionics would probably make it so that the Force, which is conceptually partially psionic would probably allow psionic resistance at the very least, if not spell resistance.

In the end though, it looks like we might have to convert both into GURPS or some such.

The fact that KOTOR PCs can't die, only become helpless unless their entire party is wiped out, would probably work out to their advantage.

Gnaeus
2009-06-16, 06:18 AM
As I recall, Force choke was an essentially at will power that immobilized an enemy for several seconds, then did half their hit points in damage on a failed save and some damage if they made their save. That power by itself would make a strong character compared with any but high level wizards, clerics or druids. Of course, it might have problems in Ravenloft or other campaigns with a high % of unchokeables.

TreesOfDeath
2009-06-16, 06:23 AM
Since Vibroblades, mangetic seals and other anti Lightsaber measures do not exist, the light saber would cut through any other warriors blades, slice down the walls of dungeons, and proboably negate most armour, proboably even natural armour. Theirs also that cheesy paralyze everyone power, and the fact Kotor2 characther can go up to level 50....

A high level wizard could at least give 15-20 jedi trouble, though its essintally whoever gets the other to fail their save wins (Master flurry+Double Saber+Squishy WIzard=pwned)

J.Gellert
2009-06-16, 06:34 AM
It's been mentioned already but I also think D&D characters would come out on top every time, even if only for the sheer power of their equipment.

No magic items hurts, even with the Force on your side.

Brom
2009-06-16, 06:36 AM
In straight combat, KOTOR characters would be superior in almost every way.

Compare a Consular to a Wizard. Let's assume level 20.

Wizard: Int 32, Gray Elf. Using 9th level spells, DC 30.
Consular: Wisdom and Charisma could easily be +7's on both, and both apply. +14 total modifiers. They, however, add their LEVEL to the DC. DC 44. The consular also gets a +6 to DC, so DC 50.

Simple truth here - KOTOR scales saving throws differently. It'd be all about who went first - the Wizard would want to cast ''Greater Invisibility'' first thing because there is no AOE dispel mechanic in KOTOR. Followed by Quickened Dimension Door, to get high, high in the air. 1200 feet up. Then, when falling, Quickened Fly or Phantom Steed. From there, rain fire. Two truths about killing Jedi, even in Star Wars: you fight from a distance and you fight using an inaccesible movement mode, like Flight or the ability to Climb Walls or shooting your gun through an ''arrow slit'' in the wall. Doubly true for D&D characters fighting KOTOR characters, as melee is even more impossible than it is for enemies in KOTOR.

Good luck getting around the Jedi's ability to heal himself, ignore various forms of attack through ''Force'' resistance - I'm going with the idea of Force = Psionics, and Psionic resistance = Spell resistance, and SR 35 would be the norm, if IIRC. And the ''Hold Breath'' power in KOTOR 2. And the Force Heal in both. Oi...

And if the Jedi goes first, it's just over. Period. Que Force Kill. You fail your save (Fortitude, DC 50. Any Wizard confident they can make that without making a build for the sole purpose of that?)

You choke for three rounds. Second round, he puts it on you again. Chokelock. You die.

Knaight
2009-06-16, 01:28 PM
Juyo master with Force Speed. HP in the hundreds, damage in the hundreds, obscene speed to get to melee. They get next to you and you're screwed.

An Ubercharger who won initiative, Spiked Chain Enlargement Reach Tripper, or someone along the lines of Jack B. Quick would slaughter this guy. A bigger threat is the insta-killers, but there are spells that give immunity.

Justin B.
2009-06-16, 01:55 PM
In straight combat, KOTOR characters would be superior in almost every way.

Compare a Consular to a Wizard. Let's assume level 20.

Wizard: Int 32, Gray Elf. Using 9th level spells, DC 30.
Consular: Wisdom and Charisma could easily be +7's on both, and both apply. +14 total modifiers. They, however, add their LEVEL to the DC. DC 44. The consular also gets a +6 to DC, so DC 50.

Simple truth here - KOTOR scales saving throws differently. It'd be all about who went first - the Wizard would want to cast ''Greater Invisibility'' first thing because there is no AOE dispel mechanic in KOTOR. Followed by Quickened Dimension Door, to get high, high in the air. 1200 feet up. Then, when falling, Quickened Fly or Phantom Steed. From there, rain fire. Two truths about killing Jedi, even in Star Wars: you fight from a distance and you fight using an inaccesible movement mode, like Flight or the ability to Climb Walls or shooting your gun through an ''arrow slit'' in the wall. Doubly true for D&D characters fighting KOTOR characters, as melee is even more impossible than it is for enemies in KOTOR.

Good luck getting around the Jedi's ability to heal himself, ignore various forms of attack through ''Force'' resistance - I'm going with the idea of Force = Psionics, and Psionic resistance = Spell resistance, and SR 35 would be the norm, if IIRC. And the ''Hold Breath'' power in KOTOR 2. And the Force Heal in both. Oi...

And if the Jedi goes first, it's just over. Period. Que Force Kill. You fail your save (Fortitude, DC 50. Any Wizard confident they can make that without making a build for the sole purpose of that?)

You choke for three rounds. Second round, he puts it on you again. Chokelock. You die.

Your wizard tactics are chosen... poorly.

I personally agree that in this scenario Magic-Force transparency should be enforced. This helps both sides.

kirbsys
2009-06-16, 03:43 PM
An Ubercharger who won initiative, Spiked Chain Enlargement Reach Tripper, or someone along the lines of Jack B. Quick would slaughter this guy. A bigger threat is the insta-killers, but there are spells that give immunity.

Force leap would ignore the AoOs from a Spiked chain guy, and someone did the math, average damage for a high end character in melee is ridiculous, somewhere around 450 damage per round with maxed out Crit, Double Lightsaber and Master Speed.

I don't know how much damage an Ubercharger can do in one round, but once again, high end Jedi's have ridiculous amounts of HP in KOTOR.

I do think that a wizard could easily take a Jedi if he won initiative however.

Flickerdart
2009-06-16, 04:03 PM
I do think that a wizard could easily take a Jedi if he won initiative however.
"There are some techniques in the Force against which there is no defense..."
Force Cage. End game, since a Jedi has no way to get out (and a lightsaber can't cut though force probably). Then the Wizard can just pretty much do whatever, like summon some sort of grappler into the cage (how good are Jedi at grappling, again? :P) until it's dead.

lsfreak
2009-06-16, 04:13 PM
Force leap would ignore the AoOs from a Spiked chain guy, and someone did the math, average damage for a high end character in melee is ridiculous, somewhere around 450 damage per round with maxed out Crit, Double Lightsaber and Master Speed.

I don't know how much damage an Ubercharger can do in one round, but once again, high end Jedi's have ridiculous amounts of HP in KOTOR.

I do think that a wizard could easily take a Jedi if he won initiative however.

Ignoring save-or-x's, even the most restricted of wizards can drop 700 damage a round at level 15, and following the rules more strictly can get you more like 3000. A semi-optimized, on-foot ubercharger (because I don't know uberchargers that well) should be running an average of about 550 a round at that point too, I think.
EDIT: Make that over 1000 a round at level 15. Forgot about Valorous weapon. You can get a lot higher by being a paladin.

MickJay
2009-06-16, 05:21 PM
Since there's no mechanics for grappling in KOTOR, Jedi can't be grappled, simple :smallbiggrin:

On a more serious note, it would help if it was clear which things work and which don't for the purpose of this comparison.

Flickerdart
2009-06-16, 05:23 PM
Ignoring save-or-x's, even the most restricted of wizards can drop 700 damage a round at level 15, and following the rules more strictly can get you more like 3000. A semi-optimized, on-foot ubercharger (because I don't know uberchargers that well) should be running an average of about 550 a round at that point too, I think.
EDIT: Make that over 1000 a round at level 15. Forgot about Valorous weapon. You can get a lot higher by being a paladin.
Yeah...Valorous Lance on horseback with Spirited Charge is x4 on your damage. PA with Shock Trooper for 4, you're doing, oh, (1d8+56)x4, or 240 average, with only a +1 Valorous lance, at +33 to hit (assuming a reasonable 30 STR). On just one attack. A 20th level character can hand out weapons like that on street corners and not care. Combine that with the Paladin spell Divine Sacrifice (maximized, you have just enough spell levels, and Battle Blessing quickens it for free) for an additional 30 damage, multiplied for 360 total. And this is still weak. Get a Lion's Charge on this sucker, and that's 4 attacks worth of hurt.

shadow_archmagi
2009-06-16, 05:49 PM
Since Vibroblades, mangetic seals and other anti Lightsaber measures do not exist, the light saber would cut through any other warriors blades, slice down the walls of dungeons, and proboably negate most armour, proboably even natural armour. Theirs also that cheesy paralyze everyone power, and the fact Kotor2 characther can go up to level 50....

A high level wizard could at least give 15-20 jedi trouble, though its essintally whoever gets the other to fail their save wins (Master flurry+Double Saber+Squishy WIzard=pwned)

Except in the Kotor universe it takes multiple lightsaber swings to kill unarmored peasants and no arms are ever cut off by anyone, and in Jedi Academy your lightsaber fails against things like stone doors and trees and other things you'd expect it to do well against.

Brom
2009-06-17, 12:10 AM
Yes *Sigh* No Star Wars video game has ever done true justice to the noble lightsaber, and many have made you wonder if it's simply a baseball bat coated in glowing chemicals.

(See Star Wars Episode Three the Game for more details =/))

elliott20
2009-06-17, 12:19 AM
In order to properly do the comparison, you really would have to first figure out how to properly convert a KOTOR character into 3.5 proper. That process alone can be a debate that will last for a long long time.