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View Full Version : I'm Bored, Give Me A 3.5 PrC To Make [it'sdonenow]



TSED
2009-06-18, 05:51 AM
I don't want anything specific, just a random 'idea' or 'theme.'

Like the PrC contests that we have.


I'll probably make it silly, but yeah. Give me an idea! First theme that inspires me gets it.


EDIT:: PrC done.

Owrtho
2009-06-18, 06:19 AM
Well, some possible themes:
A prc that uses its surroundings and the environment rather than direct confrontation.
Gravity manipulation
Magnets
Teleportation
Being a wall
Fire
Inflicting pain on itself to use its abilities
Kung Fu Hustle
NA

Owrtho

J.Gellert
2009-06-18, 06:27 AM
Silly? Make a paladin PrC that focuses on the "Prince Handsome" aspect. Dragon & Princess deal.

(But seriously. I'm tired of the 'holy warrior' paladins).

paddyfool
2009-06-18, 06:29 AM
A racial paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) class for your personal favourite non-core race. Or for one of the psionic races, alternatively.

EDIT: Alternatively, a longer (possibly Epic) progression for one of the existing racial paragon classes.

Zerg Cookie
2009-06-18, 06:31 AM
Make an Arcane swordsman PrC.
It's like Arcane archer, except from the fact that it isn't arcane archer

And yeah, I know I don't make sense...

TSED
2009-06-18, 06:32 AM
Silly? Make a paladin PrC that focuses on the "Prince Handsome" aspect. Dragon & Princess deal.

(But seriously. I'm tired of the 'holy warrior' paladins).

We have a winnar! Results at 11.




(Well I have no idea when, but you know, it'll show up when I'm done.)

Chrono22
2009-06-18, 06:32 AM
A abjurer/conjurer that specializes in geometry. He adds modrons to his list of available summons, gains the ability to inscribe magic into geometric patterns (such as runes or circles), and becomes capable of enhancing his power through ley lines. Lawful alignment is a must.
"The magic is in the angle."
-Metromancer
"No, I'm not a metrosexual."
-annoyed Metromancer.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-06-18, 06:39 AM
Seems I'm too late, but if you ever need another one; Gambler. Fights with razor shard playing cards and really hard dice.

ScIaDrd
2009-06-18, 07:09 AM
What about a a conjurer/evoker caster whose powers are based in a synergy ( and simultaneous usage) of two opposite concepts, like order/chaos, light/shadow and such. Ive got a class like this in my homebrew d6 systen and I would like to see how it works out in a ,,official" game (3.5, or whatever)

Or a conjureer who summons powerful beings like sprits elementals and the like to negotiate a contratct with them and ask a favor, in return for help, or sothing else, When they argree on the terms of the deal. , the negotiator produces a magic item to confirm the contract, like a paper of a runestone which by both parties. The one of the parteners can the read the contract, or break the stone, to invoke the favors the other party owes them. For example If somebody made a contract with an elemetal, the can get an ,,artilery barrage" of elemental spells or call some temporary minions (which a are free-wiled and have to be presuaded just like a Gated creature.

Do you like this?

Zain
2009-06-18, 07:59 AM
or could you do a crafting Prc?

something like a atificer. but as a prc...

TSED
2009-06-18, 08:24 AM
[pssst, this class is kind of overpowered. Oh well, melee can use the help, I guess? Besides that, any opinons?]


Gallant Prince

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/163/1636bde32c87b5b9ee73ea682d1c8bd0.jpg

I'm awfully sorry. I didn't mean to frighten you.
-Prince Phillip


The Gallant Prince. A man who is noble by blood and has devoted himself to living up to his lineage. His every deed is to protect beauty, to save those who can't - or, perhaps, shouldn't - save themselves. While many decry their actions as antiquated and demeaning towards the women they so selflessly serve and protect, the fairy-tale appeal of their personas ensure they rarely suffer rejection from the fairer sex.


Crunch!

BECOMING A GALLANT PRINCE
A Gallant Prince is trained from birth to uphold certain ideals. However, they must prove their valour before they earn the title of 'Gallant,' and as such they are true rarities in the world. Not everyone can live up to the expectations put on them from birth, after all.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Class Abilities: Either Vigilant Defender *OR* Special Mount *OR* the ability to initiate 3rd level Martial Maneuvers in a class that has access to the White Raven Discipline.
Gender: Must be male.
Charisma: Must be 17+
Skills: Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) 8 ranks
Lineage: Must be the heir to a throne, or in line to the heir to a throne. Which throne and how far removed are irrelevant.




Class Abilities

Class Skills
The Gallant Prince's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (con), Climb (str), Diplomacy (cha), Handle Animal (cha), Heal (wis), Knowledge (History) (int), Knowledge (Local) (int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (int), Perform (Dance) (cha), Perform (Recite Poetry) (cha), Ride (dex), and Sense Motive (wis), Swim (str)

Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int

Hit Dice: d10

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2| Noble In Blood And Deed, In Defense of the Maiden

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3| Brave Soul

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3| Inspiration of Grace

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4| Improved Aura of Courage, Improved Knight's Challenge, Improved Martial Maneuvers

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4| Kiss of the Prince

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5| Lady's Favour

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+5| By The Heavens, No!

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6| Gallant Protector

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6| Saviour's Kiss

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+7|
+7|Larger than Life, Diehard
[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: A Gallant Prince gains no weapon or armour proficiencies.

Class Abilities


Noble In Blood And Deed (Ex):
The Gallant Prince's level is added to his Paladin level (if any) for determining the use or statistics of his special mount, lay on hands, and Smite Evil class abilities. His Gallant Prince level is also added to his knight level (if any) for determining the useage of your Knight's Challenge ability. If he falls from either of these classes, he loses this bonus and all other Gallant Prince class abilities.

In Defense of the Maiden (Ex):
While the Gallant Prince is fighting defensively or using a total defense action, any females adjacent to him can use the Gallant Prince's armour class instead of their own. This does not apply if the Gallant Prince would have been caught flatfooted by the attack.

Brave Soul (Ex):
At second level, the Gallant Prince gains an untyped bonus to will saves to resist any fear effects equal to his Gallant Prince level. If he is immune to fear, the prince instead can grant himself temporary hit points equal to his class level as an immediate action that last for one round once per day.

Inspiration of Grace (Su):
At third level, a Gallant Prince brings out the 'best' in women by his dazzling personality. When a female is within 10' of the Gallant Prince, she gains a +4 competence bonus to any charisma or dexterity based skills, and a +2 competence bonus to reflex saves. This bonus does not apply to females who are unfriendly or hostile or have an intelligence of less than 3. The Gallant Prince can suppress or resume this aura as a free action.

Improved Aura of Courage (Su):
If the Gallant Prince has the Aura of Courage class ability, the bonus on will saves for allies effected by it increases to +6. If he does not have the Aura of Courage class ability, this ability does nothing.

Improved Knight's Challenge (Ex):
If the Gallant Prince has the Knight's Challenge class ability, he may add or subtract his charisma modifier to his character level as a free action for the purposes of determining whether a creature can be affected by a Knight's Challenge. If you do not have the Knight's Challenge class ability, this ability does nothing.

Improved Martial Maneuvers (Ex):
[Thanks, Djinn In Tonic!]
Your Gallant Prince levels do not count normally towards your Initiator level. Instead, add a number of effective Initiator levels to your total equal to the amount of Base Attack Bonus you have gained from the Gallant Prince prestige class (For example, a Crusader 8/Gallant Prince 4 has an Initiator level of 11 rather than 10. A Crusader 8/Gallant Prince 10 has an Initiator level of 15 rather than 13.). These Initiator levels do not grant you additional maneuvers known or maneuvers readied, however, you learn one extra maneuver that you qualify for normally upon receiving Improved Martial Maneuvers if you already could use a third level maneuver. You may not use Gallant Prince levels to trade in maneuvers.

Kiss of the Prince (Su):
When a female is rendered helpless by supernatural effects, or is dropped below 0 hit points, the prince may give her a kiss as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The female is healed for a number of points of damage equal to the prince's charisma modifier times his Gallant Prince level, and any negative supernatural effects, poisons, or diseases immediately end with no further repercussions. The female is not untied or set free from a cage, or any other similar effect that would effect physical objects that are not her. The female is fascinated with the Gallant Prince for 3d6 days after the kiss. This is a supernatural ability that can be performed a number of times a day equal to one half the Prince's charisma modifier (round up).


Lady's Favour (Ex):
By wearing a lady's favour upon his arm, the Gallant Prince is reminded of all that he is fighting for. When engaged in combat in either defense of or to further the cause of the lady who granted him his favour, he gains the benefit of Evasion and Mettle class features and a +2 morale bonus to damage dealt. The Lady's Favour takes up a wrist slot for magical items, but is considered a non-magical item.

By The Heavens, No! (Ex):
Come 7th level, a Gallant Prince sees himself as a protector of all things feminine. If a female who was either knowably innocent of the situation or a travelling companion was dropped below 0 hit points within 40' of the Gallant Prince and the Prince saw it, he enters a rage equivalent to a barbarian of his class level. This rage immediately ends if the female is alright (for example, a trusted companion assesses her and calls out that she's ok, or casts a Cure Wounds spell upon her). The Gallant Prince has no daily limit of the number of rages he can perform.

Gallant Protector (Ex):
While using In Defense of the Maiden, a Gallant Prince can make a reflex save to take the damage a protected female would have taken from melee or ranged attacks. Any other effects are also applied. The DC of the reflex save is (DC5 + damage dealt), and uses up the Gallant Prince's Attack of Opportunity. However, if the same creature is making more than one attack, he is allowed to attempt to 'block' the other attacks for free. If he has combat reflexes, he can naturally use this a number of times equal to his dexterity modifier.


Kiss of the Saviour (Su):
With a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunities, the Gallant Prince can bring a dead female back to life. This is similar in effect to a True Resurrection, with a few exceptions. There is no material component needed and the recipient must be a female who has been dead for less than a day (A gentle repose spell extends this time limit as normal) whose body is in tact. You can only do this once per day.

Larger Than Life (Su):
When facing down a creature of opposing alignment on at least one axis (ie: a lawful good Gallant Prince could still have this activated by a Lawful Evil or a Chaotic Good creature) who is at least one size category larger than yours, you become infused with the pure nobility you live and breath. The creature cannot make Attacks of Opportunity against you for any action you partake, and your size category is considered equal to its when it attempts to bull rush, trip, or intimidate you. If the creature charges you while your enemies are retreating but you are not, you gain a sacred bonus to your armour class equal to your class level. Lastly, you gain a morale bonus to damage dealt equal to the number of size categories it is larger than you plus your charisma modifier.

Diehard (Ex):
At tenth level, the Gallant Prince gains the Diehard feat for free. If he already has the Diehard feat, he may select another feat that he qualifies for and take that instead.




Fluff!

PLAYING A GALLANT PRINCE
Combat: A Gallant Prince is honourable and abides by his code of conduct (either the paladin's or the knight's). He seeks to protect those who need protection, at all costs. After all, what good is he if he cannot protect those who need it?

GALLANT PRINCES IN THE WORLD
He's so handsome! What a catch, Cindy!
- A peasant girl


Daily Life: In addition to the regular praying, acting in the service of his liege, or what have you, a Gallant Prince is also expected to mingle with the upper crusts of society. While it is not required, per se, an aristocracy will not be fond of a future liege more concerned with slaying dragons than the state of affairs.
Organizations: Gallant Princes belong to all sorts of noble guilds and the like. This is very campaign-specific.


NPC Reaction
Peasants often recognize a Gallant Prince on sight and treat him as larger than life. This magnificent, radiating figure who they have only heard stories of - stories of holding back demons so that their fair lady may escape, or facing dragons singlehandedly. They represent the awe that keeps feudal societies feudal.

Nobles, however, often see the Gallant Prince as a way to gain political power for themselves. They seek to 'befriend' him, not for his virtue as a person, but so they have contacts who are in line for the throne and famous throughout the land. Some nobles genuinely are interested in the person, the inspirational presence. They tend to be unfortunately rare.

The Gallant Prince must balance this, which takes true wisdom. Luckily for him, he's oozing capability, only that was an unfortunate word choice.



[Heh, my writing ability is rapidly deteriating, so no more fluff for you.]

EDIT:: Saviour's Kiss needs a times / day!
EDIT:: Bunch of changes.

J.Gellert
2009-06-18, 09:38 AM
Not one, but two Kiss powers! You have outdone my expectations! :smallsmile:

I'd change some of the crunch (Brave Soul, Lady's Favor, Larger than Life) if I was to actually play one, but it's very well-done overall!

TSED
2009-06-18, 10:13 AM
Oh, and just for fun (I meant to post this):

A feat to make those work on males, too!

Champion of the People
Requirement: Lawful Good Alignment, In Defense of the Maiden
All of your Gallant Prince abilities can be used on anyone, not just females, with the exception of Inspiration of Grace. The Kiss of the Prince and Kiss of the Saviour class abilities can be used by channeling at least one point of Lay On Hands into a target, instead of kissing them.

DracoDei
2009-06-18, 10:27 AM
For In defense of the Maiden is it the Galiant Prince, or the female who has to be fighting defensively or taking full defense.

TSED
2009-06-18, 10:33 AM
For In defense of the Maiden is it the Galiant Prince, or the female who has to be fighting defensively or taking full defense.

The Gallant Prince. I edited that to be a bit clearer.

deuxhero
2009-06-18, 11:53 AM
Lady's Favour seems odd, nothing is given about the "Lady's Favour" (cost, weight) and by RAW nothing stops you from enchanting one. It also seems really round about to keep him from full BAB till level 6, then give it to him at level 6 with limitations on bracer slot items.

I think a swashbuckler entry could be intresting (particularly with the "dead level" filler "seduce to learn secrets").

TSED
2009-06-18, 11:57 AM
Lady's Favour seems odd, nothing is given about the "Lady's Favour" (cost, weight) and by RAW nothing stops you from enchanting one. It also seems really round about to keep him from full BAB till level 6, then give it to him at level 6 with limitations on bracer slot items.

Yeah, I was kind of blanking on ideas, but definitely wanted the Lady's Favour going in. Look into them a bit, just a bit of cloth that knights and squires and knight-errants and etc. tied around their wrist to remind them what they were fighting for. Usually performed, I believe.

That ability was the first one that came to mind. Originally bard levels were going to be in there, too, until I remembered the whole lawful / not-lawful dynamic and scrapped that, so BABing was a bigger deal.

My major concern is actually how it affects +LA creatures. Cough.

If I get a better idea for what to put there (unlikely tonight, it's 11 am and I have yet to go to bed. Possible 'today' though) I will probably change it without hesitation.


I think a swashbuckler entry could be intresting (particularly with the "dead level" filler "seduce to learn secrets").

That's not very Gallant!

The Dark Fiddler
2009-06-18, 11:58 AM
Can Gallant Princes freely multi-class between Gallant Prince and Paladin (and Knight if they have the same restriction?)

TSED
2009-06-18, 11:59 AM
Can Gallant Princes freely multi-class between Gallant Prince and Paladin (and Knight if they have the same restriction?)

... Yes? I thought paladins and monks didn't need to ask for permission for prestige classes. If not, well. Yes.


And it's a stupid rule anyways. :smallwink:

The Dark Fiddler
2009-06-18, 12:00 PM
They didn't? Oh well, that's what I get for only having the d20 SRD for reference.

And it is stupid.

DracoDei
2009-06-18, 12:36 PM
Shouldn't it be "allies" who have to be retreating to trigger the AC bonus of "Larger than Life"?

Rizban
2009-06-18, 01:08 PM
Great PrC. Just what one of my players was wanting to play. I'll show this to them to see if they're interested.

Khatoblepas
2009-06-18, 01:36 PM
I like it! It really captures the feel of Prince Charming of yore.

Though, there are a couple of things a bit off. The ability score requirement isn't generally a good way of restricting the class - says so in the DMG. If you want only high Charisma people to enter the class, make a suitable feat with a prereq of Cha 15 or something, and make that feat the prerequisite. Might be a bit cleaner.

Second, Kiss of the Saviour brings back even disintegrated females, and doesn't specify what exactly happens in that full round action. The way it's written it seems the guy can just spend a full round action each day, anywhere, even places where there are no women, to bring one back to life. Also, True Rez is a bit excessive. x3 You really want to kiss those ashes, that rotting undead corpse, or nothing at all? I'd make it revify with a caster level equal to his character level, and usable once per day. It seems to fit with the "lifegiving kiss" thing more than raising dead women from the grave. The Charisma 13 thing is a bit off, too. What if she was charisma drained before she was killed?

"No way, man. I'm not raising her. She's ugly now. Just look at her. What a dog."

Charming.

Charisma measures force of personality, not beauty. You can have a Charisma 3 person who's beautiful, just shy or annoying.

Finally, why only males taking this class to protect women? Surely you can have Gallant Princesses saving damsels (male) in distress.

("Gather round, ladies. My aura will protect you, if you know what I mean. ;)")

IN terms of mechanical power, it's middling around Paladin power, it's got some good abilities but they're pretty narrow. He has some passive abilities to protect his wards, and some to heal them, but has very little in terms of generally dealing with the monsters he's inevitably going to face, which I guess is a problem with the Paladin in general.

Any love for Crusader entry? :3

Debihuman
2009-06-18, 02:05 PM
I just want to say that I like this class a lot but I see some problems with it.




Inspiration of Grace (Su): At third level, a Gallant Prince brings out the 'best' in women by his dazzling personality. When a female is within 10' of the Gallant Prince, she gains a +4 untyped bonus to any charisma or dexterity based skills, and a +2 untyped bonus to reflex saves.


Giving out untyped bonuses is a cheesy way around the stacking rules. [I think it should be a straight +4 comipetence bonus to Charisma-based skills and a +2 enhancement bonus to Reflex saves but that's just my opinion].

Can the Gallant Prince voluntarily supress and resume this ability at will? If not, then any female opponent gains an advantage (including that succubus he's fighting). You may want to reconsider this so that it only affects female Humanoids or members of the same race as the Gallant Knight or only female allies.

Debby

DracoDei
2009-06-18, 02:28 PM
As a fan of inter-species romance (EDIT: Because people have dirty minds, I have to clarify: "The Little Mermaid" or maybe the marriages that result in half-dragons) I have to favor "Allies" over "Humanoids". I mean Malifecent from the Disney version of "Sleeping Beauty" was female, and that didn't stop her from getting a sword through the heart....

Also, I didn't notice until someone pointed it out to me, but I never would have figured this for a full BAB class...

Debihuman
2009-06-18, 03:25 PM
Except that at first level BAB is +0 not +1. It has ALL good saves too.

This is suppose to emulate the Fairytale Prince and it does so rather nicely even if it is a tad overpowered when compared to other classes. On the other hand, that's the point. It should be a tad overpowered.

This actually works with my Fairy Godmother prestige class [here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5674006&postcount=1nd] my version of view of Maleficient [here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3294183&postcount=6] are supposed to be larger than life and even larger than the typical PC Class. However, qualifying for the class should be difficult.

Debby

P.S. I prefer the text of Inspiration of Grace to read "female allies" although I still think it should be suppressable and resumable at will.

TSED
2009-06-18, 11:02 PM
To Khatoblepas:


I like it! It really captures the feel of Prince Charming of yore.

Hurray!


Though, there are a couple of things a bit off. The ability score requirement isn't generally a good way of restricting the class - says so in the DMG. If you want only high Charisma people to enter the class, make a suitable feat with a prereq of Cha 15 or something, and make that feat the prerequisite. Might be a bit cleaner.

Problem here is that all the 15-or-17 charisma feats that I can think of (and that Crystal Keep can think of) are for spellcasters or extremely narrow paladin-and-something hybrids.

Besides, this is a pretty special prestige class. It's got, you know, handsome and charming built into the trope.


Second, Kiss of the Saviour brings back even disintegrated females, and doesn't specify what exactly happens in that full round action. The way it's written it seems the guy can just spend a full round action each day, anywhere, even places where there are no women, to bring one back to life. Also, True Rez is a bit excessive. x3 You really want to kiss those ashes, that rotting undead corpse, or nothing at all? I'd make it revify with a caster level equal to his character level, and usable once per day. It seems to fit with the "lifegiving kiss" thing more than raising dead women from the grave. The Charisma 13 thing is a bit off, too. What if she was charisma drained before she was killed?

Made some changes, because I mostly agree.



Charisma measures force of personality, not beauty. You can have a Charisma 3 person who's beautiful, just shy or annoying.

Yeah, but what are the chances that Prince Charming will kiss her? :smallwink:


Finally, why only males taking this class to protect women? Surely you can have Gallant Princesses saving damsels (male) in distress.

Fluff, mostly. Super easy to switch it around and justify it, and it's homebrew so you have absolutely no excuse not to if you want to.

But I was rolling with the trope, and I don't know of any classic Princess Charming, unfortunately.

(Mu Lan doesn't count. She was the stopper of the Mongols, not charming.)


IN terms of mechanical power, it's middling around Paladin power, it's got some good abilities but they're pretty narrow. He has some passive abilities to protect his wards, and some to heal them, but has very little in terms of generally dealing with the monsters he's inevitably going to face, which I guess is a problem with the Paladin in general.

Yeah, but feats alone can solve this. Ubercharger? Done.

Also, I put in enhancement bonus to damage in the capstone. I think it might be too situational though.

Now you can definitely protect the squishies, hurray!



Any love for Crusader entry? :3

Unfortunately not. I've got absolutely no idea how to make that work without adding a ton of extra work for myself. And I am not really motivated to do that work, you know?


To Debihuman:




Giving out untyped bonuses is a cheesy way around the stacking rules. [I think it should be a straight +4 comipetence bonus to Charisma-based skills and a +2 enhancement bonus to Reflex saves but that's just my opinion].

Advice taken to the letter! Highfive.


Can the Gallant Prince voluntarily supress and resume this ability at will? If not, then any female opponent gains an advantage (including that succubus he's fighting). You may want to reconsider this so that it only affects female Humanoids or members of the same race as the Gallant Knight or only female allies.

Made it so that hostiles can't benefit. Oops, meant to put an int3 requirement in there, too. Will edit that in right after this post.

I guess there's no harm in suppressing the ability anyways, so I'll throw that in as well.



To DracoDei:


As a fan of inter-species romance...

!


Also, I didn't notice until someone pointed it out to me, but I never would have figured this for a full BAB class...

Um, it isn't. Did you mean you thought it WOULD be full bab?


...This is suppose to emulate the Fairytale Prince and it does so rather nicely...

Thanks!


P.S. I prefer the text of Inspiration of Grace to read "female allies" although I still think it should be suppressable and resumable at will.

Aye, that seems like it was a major contention point. See how you like it now?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-18, 11:13 PM
Unfortunately not. I've got absolutely no idea how to make that work without adding a ton of extra work for myself. And I am not really motivated to do that work, you know?

It's pretty easy from what I see...just add the following ability at 4th level:

Improved Martial Maneuvers: Your Gallant Prince levels do not count normally towards your Initiator level. Instead, add a number of effective Initiator levels to your total equal to the amount of Base Attack Bonus you have gained from the Gallant Prince prestige class (For example, a Crusader 8/Gallant Prince 4 has an Initiator level of 11 rather than 10. A Crusader 8/Gallant Prince 10 has an Initiator level of 15 rather than 13.). These Initiator levels do grant you additional maneuvers known or maneuvers readied. You may not use Gallant Prince levels to trade in maneuvers.


This means that a Gallant Prince Crusader can still, once he goes back to being a Crusader, be quite effective (basically, he'll have access to one more level of maneuvers than he would otherwise). He won't, however, progress much in his maneuver power until he is finished with the Gallant Prince class.

TSED
2009-06-18, 11:25 PM
It's pretty easy from what I see...just add the following ability at 4th level:

Improved Martial Maneuvers: Your Gallant Prince levels do not count normally towards your Initiator level. Instead, add a number of effective Initiator levels to your total equal to the amount of Base Attack Bonus you have gained from the Gallant Prince prestige class (For example, a Crusader 8/Gallant Prince 4 has an Initiator level of 11 rather than 10. A Crusader 8/Gallant Prince 10 has an Initiator level of 15 rather than 13.). These Initiator levels do grant you additional maneuvers known or maneuvers readied. You may not use Gallant Prince levels to trade in maneuvers.


This means that a Gallant Prince Crusader can still, once he goes back to being a Crusader, be quite effective (basically, he'll have access to one more level of maneuvers than he would otherwise). He won't, however, progress much in his maneuver power until he is finished with the Gallant Prince class.

Well, dang. Thanks Djinn. Mind if I ninja that ability?

Debihuman
2009-06-19, 12:14 AM
I'm really glad you liked my suggestions for Inspiration of Grace as I think it is better defined. Allowing the ability to be suppressible and resumable at will is never a bad idea. This way, the gallant prince doesn't have to reward an ally that he doesn't really trust even if she isn't unfriendly or hostile. It gives the player more control over his or her PC.



Brave Soul (Ex): At second level, the Gallant Prince gains an untyped bonus to will saves to resist any fear effects equal to his Gallant Prince level. If he is immune to fear, the prince instead can grant himself temporary hit points equal to his class level as an immediate action that last for one round once per day.


The untyped bonus should probably be a morale bonus.

Debby

DracoDei
2009-06-19, 12:41 AM
What is with the "!"? No love for the Disney version of "The Little Mermaid"?

Juhn
2009-06-19, 12:44 AM
Methinks TSED's mind went somewhere squickier than mermaids.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-19, 06:21 AM
Well, dang. Thanks Djinn. Mind if I ninja that ability?

That's why it's there. :smallbiggrin: Just add "Or the ability to initiate 3rd level Martial Maneuvers in a class that has access to the White Raven Discipline."

So it's a crusader/Warblade only entry, as both can make good Gallant Princes, and White Raven seems like the best starting point.

TSED
2009-06-19, 07:12 AM
That's why it's there. :smallbiggrin: Just add "Or the ability to initiate 3rd level Martial Maneuvers in a class that has access to the White Raven Discipline."

So it's a crusader/Warblade only entry, as both can make good Gallant Princes, and White Raven seems like the best starting point.

I was actually going to say "Devoted Spirit" but I can't see a logical reason to preclude Warblades, so, yeah. Ok.

I'll plop in a "thanks to Djinn for ToB support!" as well.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-06-19, 08:05 AM
I was actually going to say "Devoted Spirit" but I can't see a logical reason to preclude Warblades, so, yeah. Ok.

I'll plop in a "thanks to Djinn for ToB support!" as well.

Well, making it Devoted Spirit doesn't mean warblades can't enter, it just means they need to burn a feat or two on Martial Study; this encourages crusaders but doesn't disallow warblades. On the other hand, if you thought warblades fit the knight-in-shining-armor trope best, you could require Iron Heart and make crusaders burn a feat or two. On the gripping hand, while White Raven seems a bit off for the archetype (given that the Prince Charming type is usually a lone hero with only his trusty steed to accompany him), I think letting both classes enter equally is the best idea.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-19, 09:27 AM
Well, making it Devoted Spirit doesn't mean warblades can't enter, it just means they need to burn a feat or two on Martial Study; this encourages crusaders but doesn't disallow warblades. On the other hand, if you thought warblades fit the knight-in-shining-armor trope best, you could require Iron Heart and make crusaders burn a feat or two. On the gripping hand, while White Raven seems a bit off for the archetype (given that the Prince Charming type is usually a lone hero with only his trusty steed to accompany him), I think letting both classes enter equally is the best idea.

Additionally, the requirement never states that you need White Raven Maneuvers...only that your class has the ability to take them. You can get in with an purely Iron Heart Warblade, for example. See? Already took that into account. :smallbiggrin:


I'll plop in a "thanks to Djinn for ToB support!" as well.

:smallbiggrin:

DracoDei
2009-06-19, 09:39 AM
These Initiator levels do grant you additional maneuvers known or maneuvers readied.

I believe this should be "do not".

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-06-19, 10:17 AM
Additionally, the requirement never states that you need White Raven Maneuvers...only that your class has the ability to take them. You can get in with an purely Iron Heart Warblade, for example. See? Already took that into account. :smallbiggrin:

My bad; I just automatically interpreted that as "3rd level White Raven maneuvers" and missed the specific phrasing.

I'd actually make that "Initiator Level 5 and at least 1 White Raven maneuver" so you (A) ensure that they have something leader- and heroic-ish and (B) allow paladins and knights to enter (at the cost of a feat) if they're using an alternate class feature--since your noble steed doesn't have to be celestial--as well as more chivalrously-inclined fighters or rangers.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-19, 11:24 AM
I believe this should be "do not".

Oops. Typo.

Debihuman
2009-06-19, 12:18 PM
Improved Martial Maneouvers isn't in the chart. Also, Brave Soul is still showing an untyped bonus to Will saves. It probably should be a morale bonus. Lady's Favor also gives out a morale bonus but to damage not to Will saves so the bonuses won't interfere with each other.

Debby

TSED
2009-06-19, 04:51 PM
Improved Martial Maneouvers isn't in the chart. Also, Brave Soul is still showing an untyped bonus to Will saves. It probably should be a morale bonus. Lady's Favor also gives out a morale bonus but to damage not to Will saves so the bonuses won't interfere with each other.

Debby

I'm keeping that because really, paladins are immune to fear and Prince Charming knight-style sure didn't run away from Maleficus' Frightful Presence.

I'll fix the chart / typo shenanigans. I think I'll also add a new maneuver known if you already knew a third level maneuver for IIL as well.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-19, 04:55 PM
I believe this should be "do not".

TSED, you might want to fix this. DracoDei spotted a rather important typo in my writing of the Improved Martial Maneuver ability. As of your last edit, which addressed your most recent post, this was not changed. :smallbiggrin:

Ninja-ed! You sneaked by me with that editing.