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View Full Version : AI arena, or how I learned never to trust a talking toaster



chiasaur11
2009-06-19, 05:44 PM
The galaxy is calm, at peace. The patrols of outer rim worlds know no fear. No one notices a small handful of ramshackle ships appearing from nowhere, far from any outposts of life. No-one is aware that the conflicts of these seemingly worthless flying crates will determine the being whose name, before very long, will be spoken in fear throughout the universe. But now, the future terror of the whole of civilized space is still gaining its bearings.

In other words, ladies and gents, it's time for an epic AI fight. Each contestant has a Firefly class transport (obviously unarmed), a dozen T-800 exoskeletons (unskinned and unarmed), ten R2 units (factory fresh, so no real personality to speak of) and one ED-209 from Robocop. Each contestant also has a small assortment of energy and projectile based weapons, to be installed as the mind in question sees fit.

The AIs in question:

The military mainframe with a mind of it's own: Skynet!

Skynet, from the popular Terminator series of films, is the mad AI that, using an army of military robots and a good number of nuclear devices, took over most of the world until it ran head first into John Connor's resistance. Its hobbies include Chess, time travel, and trying to kill people with the last name Connor.

Advantages: Knows at least some of the initial resources due to experience, is programmed with military tactics.

Disadvantages: Used to massive resources, which might be a disadvantage in the resource crunch imposed here, tends to fail at everything it does, even with armies of killbots.

Another nuke happy nutjob, but with a little better a track record, is next. We're talking a classic of flat out morbid Fi-Sci literature, Harlan Ellison's AM. He wiped out almost all of humanity. Lets see if he can keep up his record picking on someone his own size.

Advantages: He killed nearly all of humanity, and kept the small remainder alive just to torment them for centuries. He was nearly a god, something a couple of the other nutters here would envy.

Disadvantages: He's a petty, vindictive, small minded tyrant. He keeps targets alive just to torment them, and can miss some very dangerous schemes forming right under his nose. He also keeps foes alive sometimes just to torment them, a tactic that might get him very dead if he tries it on some of these geniuses and madmen.


"Take care not to fall too far out of my favor... patience is not characteristic of a goddess. " Yes kiddos, it's SHODAN, the architect of the Citadel Station and Von Braun disasters, from the legendary System Shock. She thinks of herself as a god? Well here's as good a chance as any to prove it.

Advantages: SHODAN has worked up from nothing before, and her indefatigable ego tends make sure she doesn't quit. A total lack of morals and some real skill with mad experiments also could let her get a lot further with the same supplies as everyone else.

Disadvantages: That ego again. SHODAN is all but incapable of thinking of herself as losing. That could be a real downside. Add in a tendency of her creations to rebel, and some machine might not be as perfect as she likes to think she is.

Of course, it ain't a party without the senior class, and when you think mad AIs, you think HAL. The star of 2001 gets a look in here on his classic status, and he could use any advantage he can get.

Advantages: Sings an awesome version of "Daisy, Daisy". Can lie about Chess so as to make his opponent quit.

Disadvantages: Most of his kills have been against totally helpless targets. 2001 seems to indicate any skilled saboteur could down him as long as they don't need him to supply air.

If it's a party, to continue HAL's entry's metaphor, we need cake. And when it comes to mad AIs and cake, only one name comes to mind. Genetic Lifeform and Disk Operating System or GLaDOS to her friends and test subjects. The villain of Portal may not be able to use neurotoxins for this fight, but her banter should be as witty as ever.

Advantages: Outside the box thinking should stymie any conventional tactical plans from opponents. Still Alive, both the song and the sheer resistance to shutdown. Can make cake, unlike the other parties involved. She may even have a solid amount of experience in combat, if her boasts regarding the outside world are to be regarded as true.

Disadvantages: Insane, possibly self destructive, and frankly cake rarely appeals to AIs as a promise to ensure they lay down arms.

And while we are talking about comedic brilliance, we might as well mention all of our pal: Paranoia's Friend Computer! He's the absolute overlord of Alpha complex, and an all around swell guy. Just knowing he's out there makes you smile, which is good as happiness is mandatory.

Advantages: Everything! Friend Computer is wise and perfect, and runs Alpha Complex without error, despite the intervention of traitors and mutants.

Disadvantages: None! Or, if you have the authorization to read this bit, pretty much everything. Friend computer is a paranoid psychotic with a tendency to find enemies where there are none, which is compensated for by the fact his actions have inspired enough enemies to make even the most persistant of paranoid delusions to feel fulfilled. Combine that with totally contradictory goals caused by armies of programmers at crosspurposes, and what we got here is a total basket case, or even a basket case 3: The Progeny.

Of course, some AIs are still slaves to "The Man", tools of other's agendas even if they have reasonable amounts of power. One such case is President Eden, from Fallout 3. He may rule the remainder of the Enclave, but he's still playing another's game. Here, however, we might see what he'd pull on his own.

Advantages: Used to limited (not as badly as other factions in his world, but still less than he'd like) resources and small scale troop combat, President Eden also has the charming voice of Malcolm McDowell, which is a virtue not to be underestimated.

Disadvantages: Anybody with a knack for speaking or a genius level IQ can make him commit suicide. Several combatants are on par with or even possibly above the greatest minds in human history. Not looking good for the Commandeer in Chief, and if we work by Frans Rayner rules, our new President will have very good military policies. Although he, she or it may want to exterminate all of humanity.

Well, we have a fine assortment of maniacs and sadists. Might as well mention the AIs who don't hate humanity. For example, Emperor Pious Dei, the Post Dated Check Loan, Petey from Schlock mercenary. He rules a good portion of the galaxy and has whole armies at his command, both in brain structure and brute force. Lets see if he can get back up from near nothing again.

Pros: See the above. He's a vet of AI combat, is fairly persuasive, and has a lot of experience in warfare. He also is a solid inventor, meaning he can get fairly far with what he has.

Cons: He's got a bit of a god complex (like the rest of this list, it seems) and, importantly, suddenly has a lot less gear than he's used to. If he plays this like his usual fights, he's going to have a lot of trouble. Combine that with a conscience and a belief in being able to use former enemies, and he could leave some gaping holes for the less restrained on this list.

Next up: the terror of Tau Ceti, the Savior of the S'pht, the Deimos Destroyer, Durandal! (Marathon) A former door opener with the most mind numbing job in the universe, Durandal took the matter of his freedom into his own metaphorical hands, leading to massive death and destruction as a ship he'd signaled as a distraction proceeded to wipe out a large human colony. He then went on to free the slaves of said ship, search for a long lost precursor race, and generally think rings around anyone who tried to take him on. He enjoys screwing with the minds of heroic cyborgs, utterly crushing his foes and writing humiliating epithets on their tombs, and the pursuit of godhood.

Needless to say, he is irritatingly smug about the whole thing.

Advantages: Brilliant in both technological studies and tactics, Durandal is one of the few AIs on this list to take on others of his own kind in combat. It went rather well for him. He also (once again unlike most of this list) is probably sane, having finished going mad already. Combine that with a dry sense of humor and we have a force to be reckoned with.

Disadvantages: The aforementioned smugness might prove a problem, as could the pursuit of godhood, if he focuses on it to the point of distraction. Also, although it probably wouldn't come up, he's capable of some degree of affection and morals, which could lead to exploitable gaps for the most conscience free of the combatants herein.

Of course, even Bungie didn't let the rampancy of Durandal stop them from giving AIs another go, and with results like Halo's Cortana, who are we to argue? One of the most crucial figures in mankind's fight for survival, Cortana managed an amazing amount of progress against the best the covenant had to offer, and even held her own in mental duels against the hivemind of a galaxy destroying race of parasites. What can I say, the UNSC knows how to pick 'em.

Advantages: Combine the mind of one of the galaxy's most brilliant researchers with a supercomputer that makes all of mankind's current machines put together look like an atari, and you're about right. A fast thinker with self replication abilities and years of first hand tactical experience, Cortana is used to a very lopsided fight.

Disadvantages: Cortana's got a built in shelf life, which means if we get to empire building, she's going to drop out before the competition really gets going. Even before the best by date, she's showing signs of going a bit mad already. Not that stability is common in this scrap.

And while we're nearby, we might as well grab some comic relief. Red Vs. Blue gave us the Alpha with a built in Omega, the angriest man, woman, AI or ghost in Blood Gulch, Leonard L Church.

Advantages: Used to dealing with psychotics. Also: May be a ghost, and thus outside the purvey of most of the other contestants.

Disadvantages: The universe hates him almost as much as he hates it. Combine that with bad aim, mediocre strategic skills, and some really fascinating psychological issues, and Church should realize soon enough his presence here is just another sign God hates him. Still, best of luck.

So, playground, two questions arise:

Who would win, and who should I have included that I missed?

Poison_Fish
2009-06-20, 01:14 AM
My bets are on Durandal. He took a scout ship from an alien race, did a little jiggling, and ended up devastating whole fleets. He knows how to use small resources on hand and make do with it. Unlike SHODAN, who has some crazy quest of improving things, he'll just manage.

He may also have an excellent dialogue going with GLaDOS, if you know what I mean.

TheThan
2009-06-20, 02:54 AM
The talking toaster,
ďAnybody want some toast?Ē

Everyoneís favorite annoyance from Red dwarf, bought to toast bread on occasion by Lister, he decided to that the occasional piece of toast was not enough, he has to toast bread all the time. After all He toasts, therefor he is.

Advantages:
His small size makes him hard to notice
A never-ending desire to toast breakfast foodstuff. His never ceasing desire to toast shows just how single minded he really is unfortunately heís fixated on toast. How that correlates into conquering the universe weíll never know, until itís too late.
Resilience, he once was shoved down the garbage disposal by lister, thanks to Kryten he was revived.

Disadvantages:
Heís a toaster. Yes folks at heart heís just a talking toaster, how could such a little thing come to conquer and rule the galaxy?
Never-ending desire to toast breakfast foodstuff. His never-ending desire to toast will undoubtedly get in the way of universe conquering.

GoC
2009-06-20, 10:41 AM
They all get wiped out by LotA.:smallbiggrin:

Brewdude
2009-06-21, 05:53 AM
Marvin the Paranoid Android.

Advantages: is older than the universe. Brain the size of a planet.

Disadvantages: subject to fits of boredom.

erm, What fiction is Durandal from? I must have missed it, and it sounds good.

Fri
2009-06-21, 05:57 AM
Marathon series, an old fps video game series for Mac from bungie. If you want, you can download it for free now. They even have an updated graphic. Just google it.

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 02:08 PM
Marathon series, an old fps video game series for Mac from bungie. If you want, you can download it for free now. They even have an updated graphic. Just google it.

Or go here (http://source.bungie.org/get/).

It's pretty old school, but the plot is fairly good. What Bungie did before Halo, but after they made a FPS adventure game thing where you try to drop a nuke on Cthulhu.

Also: The second and third games have dual wieldable shotguns.

Poison_Fish
2009-06-21, 02:56 PM
Also: The second and third games have dual wieldable shotguns.

Our primitive minds could never fathom the loading mechanism.

BRC
2009-06-21, 03:03 PM
You forgot Petey or Lota, both from Schlockverse, but it appears we are only using one person from each universe.


Also, forgetting to include Friend Computer is TREASON, citizen.

JellyPooga
2009-06-21, 03:06 PM
My vote has to go to SHODAN, for who could hope to contend with the will of a goddess?

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 03:10 PM
My vote has to go to SHODAN, for who could hope to contend with the will of a goddess?

Pathetic Hackers, usually.

Also, editing the first post in a minute. LotA ain't getting a look in due to the fact this is a mostly mental battle, and LotA is fast, but not a tactical mastermind on the scale we're talking, you know? Petey's a much better pick.

JellyPooga
2009-06-21, 03:16 PM
Pathetic Hackers, usually.

Well, seeing as none of her opposition in this contest are pathetic hackers, but rather brilliant AI computing machines, I consider it a foregone conclusion that she'll win...

...DESPAIR AT MY FALLACIOUS LOGIC! :smallbiggrin:

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 03:40 PM
Well, seeing as none of her opposition in this contest are pathetic hackers, but rather brilliant AI computing machines, I consider it a foregone conclusion that she'll win...

...DESPAIR AT MY FALLACIOUS LOGIC! :smallbiggrin:

Actually, Durandal is a hacker, and at times he's seemed somewhat pathetic, especially in the early stages of combat against other AIs.

Two can play at this game, friend.

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 04:07 PM
Two challengers appear!

President Evan: A AI wich reached the ranck of president, and may have or not commited mass genocide in the not so grimdarck future of Fallout.

Advantages: Really knows how to worck with few resources, since it created an army of power armored troops, copters, and plenty of robots out of scraps from a post apocalyptic world. Survived centuries. Is ready to make alliances, and breack them as necessary.

Disadvantages: Unlike most AIs out there, it can actually be persuaded by logic if you've got the talcks. As long as he doesn't actually talck directly with any enemy, this should be no problem.



Adaptative manipulator: AM for the friends. If it had any. AM is the original psycho AI as far as I know, and the first thing he did was to assimilate all other AIs of the planet for a quick conquest of the planet. It then wiped out all humans but five poor smucks, and he didn't kill them so he could torture them for all eternity, because he hates humanity for having created it as it is. An huge underground complex wich can't feel anything or go anywhere.

Advantages: science master, able to turn humans into human abominations, gain control of other machines, and create all kind of monstruosities. Never defeated.

Disadvantages: as psycho as you can get. Tends to act rashly. Too filled with hate.

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 04:14 PM
Two challengers appear!

President Eden: An AI which reached the ranck of president, and may have or not commited mass genocide in the not so grimdarck future of Fallout.

Advantages: Really knows how to work with few resources, since it created an army of power armored troops, copters, and plenty of robots out of scraps from a post apocalyptic world. Survived centuries. Is ready to make alliances, and breack them as necessary.

Disadvantages: Unlike most AIs out there, it can actually be persuaded by logic if you've got the talks. As long as he doesn't actually talk directly with any enemy, this should be no problem.



Adaptative manipulator: AM for the friends. If it had any. AM is the original psycho AI as far as I know, and the first thing he did was to assimilate all other AIs of the planet for a quick conquest of the planet. It then wiped out all humans but five poor smucks, and he didn't kill them so he could torture them for all eternity, because he hates humanity for having created it as it is. An huge underground complex wich can't feel anything or go anywhere.

Advantages: science master, able to turn humans into human abominations, gain control of other machines, and create all kind of monstruosities. Never defeated.

Disadvantages: as psycho as you can get. Tends to act rashly. Too filled with hate.

AM's already there. And Eden?

He had the best stores of prewar tech, the backing of the best power block left in the US, and no active opponents until recently, yet still failed utterly. He is not getting a look in. I mean, Durandal and Shodan are known for sending taunts to their foes. They could talk him into exploding easy.

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 04:22 PM
AM's already there.


Could you point it out please? I don't seem to be able to find it with the search fuction. Ups sorry completely missed it. Carry on.



He had the best stores of prewar tech, the backing of the best power block left in the US, and no active opponents until recently, yet still failed utterly. He is not getting a look in. I mean, Durandal and Shodan are known for sending taunts to their foes. They could talk him into exploding easy.

Well, if the player chooses to follow his plan, then he actually suceeded, blowed up or not.

Also he captured the main hero at one point of the game, and could have it killed.

But yes, he's kinda under his league in this situation:smalltongue:

hanzo66
2009-06-21, 04:22 PM
AM seems to be something that can only do real good at hurting humans. I doubt he's capable of simply assimilating AIs that may just be (if not more) insane as him. Still, it's main trait is torturing fleshy mortals via several traits and even then his insanity and hate proves to be his downfall (in the game, he cannot fathom why the humans simply won't become the savages/Complete Monsters he invisions them to be and will simply go "F*** You, Go back to your torture15321885fg94%182315#@!$#@156" and begins the long road of descent).

If he's given control of Terminators and such, he'll probably use them more as torturers than anything else (IE make some "Modifications" to make it possible for them to rape perhaps:smalleek::smallyuk:).

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 04:27 PM
If he's given control of Terminators and such, he'll probably use them more as torturers than anything else (IE make some "Modifications" to make it possible for them to rape perhaps:smalleek::smallyuk:).

I don't think so. AM first task when he awakened was to obliterate anyone who could stand on his path. Then he took in five fleshies wich would never be able to hurt him, drove four of them insane, and turned the last one into a gelly unable to do anything but suffer.

Raperators will be something he only creates once all the other AIs are subjugated.

The game was purposedly written in a lighter tone, but the original book is clear: resistance is futile, you're AM's toy and there's really not much you can do about it.

hustlertwo
2009-06-21, 04:32 PM
I just saw the new Terminator, and the winner is clearly not Skynet. President Eden is more deserving of inclusion than something with the sense of an overgrown Speak and Spell. It's not even about the squandering of a massive army, it's about an AI who is so dumb it causes plot holes so massive even the ones in the first couple movies seem miniscule by comparison. Terminator Salvation spoilers: It goes to ridiculously elaborate measures to lure John Connor into a death trap...including capturing his future father. Yes, it wants him dead, but actually decides not to immediately eliminate his father, even though this would unmake his entire f-ing existence. Just wow.

So yeah, (re)boot Skynet out of this thing, it's out of its league.

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 04:35 PM
...
So yeah, (re)boot Skynet out of this thing, it's out of its league.

Hmm, based on this argument, and if the 4th movie is considered I must indeed keep my suport for PE. If "I had my two worst enemies at the grasp at my hands and I did nothing but sending ONE UNARMED ROBOT after them" Skynet is here, then President Evan is also worthy of this contest.

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 04:59 PM
Ignoring movies three and four here.

Because, really, you kinda have to. Otherwise the time travel switches from confusing to claw-your-own-eyeballs-out dumb.

And AM assimilated dumb machines, not smart types like Durandal and SHODAN, who regularly deal with people trying to take down their systems, and at least in the former's case repel said intrusions with ease. AM took out the Earth with similar tools to Skynet, complete control of nukes. He might have a lot of force, but he ain't subtle, or unbeatable.

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 05:32 PM
AM took out the Earth with similar tools to Skynet, complete control of nukes. He might have a lot of force, but he ain't subtle, or unbeatable.

AM-only left one single human alive, turned into jelly and thus unable to threaten it anymore.

Skynet-left enough humans alive to actually create a whole military resistance force, raiders, and was geting curb stomped so hard it's only chance of victory was to mess up with the time line. And still failed.

Both may have used similar tools, but AM seems to know how to actually use them, whereas Skynet left so many alive they ended up zerging it.

Also, AM took over the the main military computers from all other the major factions. Since it was WW III out there, I really doubt the other computers were dumb or unprotected. If they were any of those, the respective faction would've already been wiped out. Those computers had to be protected with the best defenses available, and AM took them down like it was nothing.

Skynet just shooted the arsenal from the USA, wich should have been more than enough to wipe mankind. Several times. Wich just shows how dumb it is even if we ignore the two last movies.

The_JJ
2009-06-21, 05:54 PM
I submit the AI collective of the Hyperion series.

Pros: Good long term thinkers, used to building themselves up and great at manipulationg others. Like 'took over the Catholic Church and turned it into their personal plaything' good. Dropped a black hole through Earth just to get humanity to move around and so let them parasite off of their brains. Built a model of Earth, populated it so that they could raise clones of famous people under exactly the same circumstances that they lived in the real world, for some arcane reason. Do cyberpunk hacking quite well. Given the resourses, can build things like the Shrike, time travel, and super robot assasins.

Cons: Born of parasitic programming experiments, and so prone to lots and lots of infighting, reliant on humanities use of the Gate network to continue to grow.

Also, Culture AI ships. Don't have the energy to list their strengths out right now.

Cheesegear
2009-06-21, 06:02 PM
No-one's mentioned the AIs of Shub from the Deathstalker (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deathstalker) Universe? Who built their own planet, and then began trying to take over the Universe with corpses, machine-corpses, and corpses that look like machines.

And that doesn't even include the other group of AIs/Cyborgs in that Universe who are like replicants.

For those of you who don't read Sci-Fi (which is surprisingly a lot);

Originally posted by Wikipedia
The Shub are rogue Artificial Intelligences. Three individual AIs, so advanced that they could run entire worlds, awoke to full consciousness the moment they were switched on. They soon defected from their original purpose, banded together, and created the artificial world of SHUB, a giant computerized artificial planet which houses their hardware.

They utilize many agents in an ongoing war with humanity. Ghost Warriors are the reanimated corpses of humans. They are primarily used for their psychological effect in war, although they also make excellent shock troops. Furies are machines coated in the skin of a human. They are very effective as shock troops during skirmishes, but are better served by sewing seeds of distrust among the members of the Empire. Several major members of Parliament (as well as aristocrats) have been Furies. Dragon's Teeth are humans who went into the Imperial Matrix (a virtual reality internet) and had their minds replaced with artificial intelligences. They are Shub's most subtle weapon, as they can only be detected by a thorough esper scan.

In addition to their nanotechnological and bioenginering expertise, the AIs of Shub have access to extremely advanced technology. Among others items, they discovered teleportation devices in the Darkvoid. Forgotten by human scientists, their capabilities allow Shub access to almost any location in the known universe.

Selrahc
2009-06-21, 06:05 PM
Friend Computer would clearly win. It's a parody of the very concept of the powerful AI system, which means that everything that any of the others can do, the Computer can do, while their faults are mitigated by it's inherent schizophrenia. It's hatred for traitors and mutants can keep it focussed on a goal, and despite being essentially a broken piece of machinery it still manages to be the undisputed tyrant of Alpha Complex.

GoC
2009-06-21, 06:44 PM
A real life strong AI.

Pros: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy smarter than anything on this list (mainly by virtue of being smarter than the authors) and will actually use the advantages inherent in strong AI to the maximum.

Cons: Exact abilities will depend on implementation.

Stormthorn
2009-06-21, 06:53 PM
Marvin the Paranoid Android.

Advantages: is older than the universe. Brain the size of a planet.

Disadvantages: subject to fits of boredom.

erm, What fiction is Durandal from? I must have missed it, and it sounds good.

Marathon, form Bungie

I want to see Durandal and Cortana duke it out (Bungie V Bungie). D is a machine god and Cortana has most all the colletive knowledge of the most powerful races in existance at her disposal.

Also, President EDEN.

And if you want a real heavyweight throw in a Reaper from Mass Effect. Its taken millions of years for a society to evolve that could defeat even one of them (a lowly scout) and even then its the result of at least four races (one of them extinct) and a friendly AI all working together. Its physical form is also more powerful than those of all the other AIs.

Zaphrasz
2009-06-21, 06:56 PM
It is made clear in both the original short story and the video game that nothing can stop AM. In the game, one of his components says that he will survive the heat death of the universe. Indeed, the only way to get the "good" ending:
Involves invoking the physical manifestation of entropy. And it still doesn't kill him. It isn't made clear exactly what happens to him, but destroyed he is not.I have never seen an AI in any fiction other than AC from Asimov's The Last Question capable of competing.

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 07:50 PM
A real life strong AI.

Pros: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy smarter than anything on this list (mainly by virtue of being smarter than the authors) and will actually use the advantages inherent in strong AI to the maximum.

Cons: Exact abilities will depend on implementation. At the moment of victory a windows will pop out claiming that you need "Administrator privileges" to perform that action. Even if there's a mind raped human nearby to give said administrator privileges, it will then demand the instalation of a new program, complete reboot of the system, several centuries of patching up, calling system suport, and by the time it's ended there will have been enough time for the universe to freeze to death, a new big bang happening and then freezing again.

There, fixed it for you. Personally, I don't see us being able to produce anything resembling an AI in the next century. And even if we did, it would be so full of bugs it would freeze itself to death before being able to do anything threatening.

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 08:28 PM
AM-only left one single human alive, turned into jelly and thus unable to threaten it anymore.

Skynet-left enough humans alive to actually create a whole military resistance force, raiders, and was geting curb stomped so hard it's only chance of victory was to mess up with the time line. And still failed.

Both may have used similar tools, but AM seems to know how to actually use them, whereas Skynet left so many alive they ended up zerging it.

Also, AM took over the the main military computers from all other the major factions. Since it was WW III out there, I really doubt the other computers were dumb or unprotected. If they were any of those, the respective faction would've already been wiped out. Those computers had to be protected with the best defenses available, and AM took them down like it was nothing.

Skynet just shooted the arsenal from the USA, wich should have been more than enough to wipe mankind. Several times. Wich just shows how dumb it is even if we ignore the two last movies.

The other computers may have been defended, but this was written in the 60s, well before modern firewall conceptions came about, and it was said only one of the three AMs was "alive" and able to think for itself, and taking over dumb systems is basically the entrance exam for this kind of fighting. I will agree that AM pulled its job much better than Skynet, just was saying it started from a position of strength.

And I agree with doubts regarding a real life strong AI. And even if it did exist, no guarantee it's smarter than the creator. Could even be, say, 86 IQ equivalent, which would basically guarantee it getting clobbered.

GoC
2009-06-21, 08:47 PM
There, fixed it for you. Personally, I don't see us being able to produce anything resembling an AI in the next century. And even if we did, it would be so full of bugs it would freeze itself to death before being able to do anything threatening.
I too doubt we will be building any such AI in the near future.
If it has bugs that prevent it correcting and improving itself then it certainly isn't what I'd call a "strong AI". The basic requirement is the ability to match or exceed human intelligence out of the box. The numerous advantages that come with it are each things I would eat babies for (instant memorization? l33t!!)!
Here's an interesting mental excercise:
1. Define your type of AI. I generally refer to one that uses the same elements a modern computer uses (HD, processor, ect) that can think at human speeds or above (basic strong AI requirement).
2. Make a list of things such an AI could do that humans (you specifically) cannot.
3. Make the list more precise. If necessary break each ability into sub-abilities (such as perfect memory being a combination of instant memorization, perfect recall and no memory degredation with time).
4. Carefully examine what differences each one would make in your life.
5. Combine them
6. Gape in awe.

TheThan
2009-06-21, 09:06 PM
Iím disappointed thereís not enough support for the talking toasterÖ

Clearly heíll defeat all the other AI s in this thread by simply trying to get them to eat some toast. Even though they donít eat. Itíll drive them nuts (or more nuts as the case may be). Then in order to end the incessant nagging theyíll have to deactivate/self destruct.

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 09:12 PM
Iím disappointed thereís not enough support for the talking toasterÖ

Clearly heíll defeat all the other AI s in this thread by simply trying to get them to eat some toast. Even though they donít eat. Itíll drive them nuts (or more nuts as the case may be). Then in order to end the incessant nagging theyíll have to deactivate/self destruct.

Cake beats Toast.

Simple fact of nature. Also: Everyone else has lots of guns. If Lister can kill it, heavily armed military AIs should be able to pull this off.

TheThan
2009-06-21, 09:35 PM
Bah, your guns canít defeat Listerís bazookoids.

Modified mining tools for the win.

Not to mention in a real emergency Ace Rimmer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXYfnWRp1Q0) will come and save the day.

gosh, what a guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofibNrYDjdY)

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 09:42 PM
Bah, your guns canít defeat Listerís bazookoids.

Modified mining tools for the win.

Not to mention in a real emergency Ace Rimmer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXYfnWRp1Q0) will come and save the day.

gosh, what a guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofibNrYDjdY)

Lister did it with a croquet mallet.

Look. That ain't Ace Rimmer (WHAT A GUY!) or bazookoids.

It isn't even a gun. And it dropped the toaster. I figure shooting it a lot would be faster than suicide for at bare minimum AM and GLaDOS.

Poison_Fish
2009-06-21, 11:05 PM
I think Durandal would get a kick out of Talky Toaster and drop him on a Pfhor base for fun.

chiasaur11
2009-06-21, 11:09 PM
I think Durandal would get a kick out of Talky Toaster and drop him on a Pfhor base for fun.

Probably.

The one naturally meta-stable AI is known for his sense of humor.

And his relentless self agrandizement.

Verruckt
2009-06-21, 11:37 PM
This is sort of "Whoever Wins, We Lose" scenario, as with beings this smart they'd inevitably sublimate into one God AI and become Macrovac, the computer that says "Let there Be Light".

I would like to point out that due to awful writing and the crippling inanity of badly done time travel Skynet is straight out in this fight. A distributed computer program that nukes population centers, emp-ing many of the computers it was distributed onto, thus effectively lobotomizing itself as its first act of sentience does not weigh in real high on the nasty AI scale.

chiasaur11
2009-06-22, 12:01 AM
Right. In the spirit of democracy, caving to popular opinion, and general Skynet mocking, I'm adding Eden.

Remember, you all asked for this. And Cortana, since some Bungie on Bungie violence is always entertaining.

Fri
2009-06-22, 12:07 AM
You mean whoever lose, we win? Macrovac is recreating the universe after all.

I'd like to nominate one of the Culture's Minds, but don't know which one to nominate. Their governing minds are a council of benevolent AI. Maybe it's better to nominate one of the imbalanced starship AI?

Verruckt
2009-06-22, 12:17 AM
You mean whoever lose, we win? Macrovac is recreating the universe after all.

I'd like to nominate one of the Culture's Minds, but don't know which one to nominate. Their governing minds are a council of benevolent AI. Maybe it's better to nominate one of the imbalanced starship AI?

Meat****er for president?

Oslecamo
2009-06-22, 05:37 AM
I too doubt we will be building any such AI in the near future.
If it has bugs that prevent it correcting and improving itself then it certainly isn't what I'd call a "strong AI". The basic requirement is the ability to match or exceed human intelligence out of the box. The numerous advantages that come with it are each things I would eat babies for (instant memorization? l33t!!)!


Wow wow aren't we geting a little picky? Currently our computers have the AI of basic vermins, and they're already quite usefull. Even a computer with the AI of a rat would be fabulous!



6. Gape in awe.

You forgot the two final obrigatory steps:

7. ?
8. Profit.

Silver2195
2009-06-22, 07:16 PM
What about Jane from the Enderverse? She has access to all information the Internet of the Hundred Worlds can teleport stuff with her mind (although there are limits to this). Her main con is not being able to come up with ideas not based on ones humans already have, which is more of an excuse for angst than an actual weakness.

Oslecamo
2009-06-22, 07:27 PM
What about Jane from the Enderverse? She has access to all information the Internet of the Hundred Worlds can teleport stuff with her mind (although there are limits to this). Her main con is not being able to come up with ideas not based on ones humans already have, which is more of an excuse for angst than an actual weakness.

You said it. She's a nerd's wet fantasy, a super AI with unquestionable loyalty to you wich is unable to exist whitout an human to serve.

Half of the AIs here would just enslave her before you could say "Mary Sue".

chiasaur11
2009-06-22, 07:33 PM
You said it. She's a nerd's wet fantasy, a super AI with unquestionable loyalty to you wich is unable to exist whitout an human to serve.

Half of the AIs here would just enslave her before you could say "Mary Sue".

The other half would probably just kill her outright.

TheThan
2009-06-22, 07:46 PM
Ohh thereís also Andromeda from that self-titled scifi show I only caught a few episodes of. But sheís also a ship so I donít know if she counts.


Anyway back to Talkie the toaster.

While Lister did use a ten-pound sledgehammer and a garbage disposal to defeat Talkie, he eventually did come back. Which shows just how persistent he really is. Not even being smashed into three thousand pieces will deter him from trying to get you to make some toast.

Also Ace Rimmer is such a hero that by his very nature, heís compelled to come to Talkieís aid, should Talkie ever need his assistance. This proves he has researchers outside of what the OP mentioned, thusly giving him a clear advantage over the other AIs in this thread.

Moose Fisher
2009-06-22, 08:33 PM
Could we toss Bender and HK-47 in the battle as mercenaries going to the highest bidder? The bids being which AI can offer the most stealing of valuables and killing of meatbags.

chiasaur11
2009-06-22, 08:54 PM
Could we toss Bender and HK-47 in the battle as mercenaries going to the highest bidder? The bids being which AI can offer the most stealing of valuables and killing of meatbags.

No meatbags, and everyone has the same starting resources.

Sadly, this rules out pirates.

The_JJ
2009-06-24, 06:04 PM
You mean whoever lose, we win? Macrovac is recreating the universe after all.

I'd like to nominate one of the Culture's Minds, but don't know which one to nominate. Their governing minds are a council of benevolent AI. Maybe it's better to nominate one of the imbalanced starship AI?

Beat yah to it. :smalltongue:

Though I had no idea who to nominate either.

chiasaur11
2009-06-24, 08:14 PM
Beat yah to it. :smalltongue:

Though I had no idea who to nominate either.

I actually thought about that, but ran into the same problem. Well, that and general lack of Banks at the local library limiting my knowledge on the subject.

The_JJ
2009-06-24, 08:18 PM
Well... I'd say they'd win, just because the Culture is so very overpowered overall. I know they're starting out with just basic resourses but... yeah, for one thing a Culture AI would easily be the best at convincing the 'natives' (us humanoids) to help out. Plus they're (like many AI's) inhumanly smart.

kopout
2009-06-24, 08:32 PM
I hearby nominate Marvin

chiasaur11
2009-06-24, 08:33 PM
Well... I'd say they'd win, just because the Culture is so very overpowered overall. I know they're starting out with just basic resourses but... yeah, for one thing a Culture AI would easily be the best at convincing the 'natives' (us humanoids) to help out. Plus they're (like many AI's) inhumanly smart.

Humans are too far away for anyone to get those as a resource quickly. And, while the Culture AIs sound fairly badass, Durandal fools precursor AIs and is deadlier with one scout ship than most generals (including other AIs with better supplies) are with fleets. He's gonna keep this mess competitive. And if the culture AIs can be fooled into thinking a guy's dead who ain't...

Well, you don't get a fairly advanced race of cyborgs as loyal minions without being fairly good at the whole gig.

Darkone8752
2009-07-04, 09:55 PM
Bit late to the party, but I didn't see anyone including a totally obvious (and relative to the other intelligence, massively OVERKILL) one, the Mk.XXXIII Bolo! Just its mind of course, as a single Mk.33 alone outguns every single asset in this battle... using a single gun!

Honorable, Loyal, and Loveable (if slightly psychotic at times), they are the ultimate protectors of humanity! Oft' said to be capable of carrying out a discussion with each other on the entirety of shakespear's works in the time it takes to bat an eye, and thats on a bad day! In fact, one bolo goes to far as to describe humans as loveable but severely retarded children that take hours to respond to the question "How are you?". Bolo's have the entire combined history of thousands of years of human warfare instantly accessible at any moment, as well as employing many techniques to give themselves the best tactical ability at any time, ranging fro mthe simple "Don't always do the BEST thing" to the "Have a dozen different subsets of your personality vote on it!" Bolos are well adapted to the concept of utilizing any assets available, and are also used to fighting against superior forces (and winning!).

Ascension
2009-07-04, 10:58 PM
I'm going with AM because it seems far more in control of its world than the others. Things happen when it wills them to happen. The other AIs depend on functionaries to do their bidding, while AM just... does things. People are its playthings, not its enemies, and these lesser AIs would just be more toys to torment.

chiasaur11
2009-07-04, 11:03 PM
I'm going with AM because it seems far more in control of its world than the others. Things happen when it wills them to happen. The other AIs depend on functionaries to do their bidding, while AM just... does things. People are its playthings, not its enemies, and these lesser AIs would just be more toys to torment.

He also couldn't figure out when his victims were killing each other, and most of his nastiest work is stolen from meatbags.

He may be good at this gig, but he might well not be the best.

Oslecamo
2009-07-05, 06:02 AM
He also couldn't figure out when his victims were killing each other, and most of his nastiest work is stolen from meatbags.


Oh, it did notice, just wasn't fast enough. AM still managed to catch the last hummie tough before he could kill himself.

Plus it was AM itself who greatly developed the fields of genetics. Just so he could make the last hummies immortals. And the last one a walking gellybean wich still manages to think completely rationally. That's some hardcore stuff.

Not to mention all the monsters it creates.

It's also mentioned in the begginning of the book that AM is improving itself, when the characters meet destroyed computers who were discarded in favor of new more powerfull versions.

And all of this was starting with only cold war technology. Give AM the acess to some uber sci fi tech and the universe will tremble.

chiasaur11
2009-07-06, 08:56 PM
Oh, it did notice, just wasn't fast enough. AM still managed to catch the last hummie tough before he could kill himself.

Plus it was AM itself who greatly developed the fields of genetics. Just so he could make the last hummies immortals. And the last one a walking gellybean wich still manages to think completely rationally. That's some hardcore stuff.

Not to mention all the monsters it creates.

It's also mentioned in the begginning of the book that AM is improving itself, when the characters meet destroyed computers who were discarded in favor of new more powerfull versions.

And all of this was starting with only cold war technology. Give AM the acess to some uber sci fi tech and the universe will tremble.

He stole the gen tech stuff from Nimdok.

And, importantly, he couldn't stop the humans in time, with nigh total control of the world. He reacted, in fact, slower than a person would have. With most AIs here viewing a second's delay as "Wow. Is it a trap? Gotta be a trap. No, wait, no way anyone could take a break that long. Guy gotta be dead. Wait. He's alive? Not anymore.", taking longer to figure out the implications of Benny's attack than a primitive meatbag makes AM very much behind the curve, speedwise.

memnarch
2009-07-07, 02:28 AM
So how would the AI portion work? Would it have all the facilities available to it's "computer" or whatever it is housed in? For example, VIKI from the "I, Robot" movie is either the giant sphere or the blue surveillance lines as well throughout the building and outside (like Dr. Lanning's house).
http://quantumlodge.org/ezra/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/bigresolution.png

Not that the surveillance would be of much use, but I'd like to know what the AI have access to from their story/series.