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View Full Version : Skynet vs Transformers vs Necrons



J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 07:17 AM
Scenario:
Skynet has the control level depicted in Terminator: Salvation. Human pockets of resistance do exist. Skynet, having access to military assets, knows about the existence of the AllSpark but for whatever reason cannot use it.

Autobots and Decepticons drop on earth at this point looking for their cube. Autobots are likely to side with humans. Autobots and Decepticons may fight each other and/or Skynet. Megatron is "asleep" and in Skynet custody.

And to complicate things further, one Tomb-World of Necrons has awoken and is laying on attack on all living things. On earth, they don't have the entire forces of necrons across the universe at their disposal, and to make things interesting, they too will fight for the AllSpark.

Robocop is likely somewhere in the mess as well :P

Who would win?

ImmortalAer
2009-06-24, 07:26 AM
...

Really? Necrons. They cannot die, phase out when nearly destroyed just to be repaired in a few hours, thier weapons flay you atomic layer-by-layer in a single shot. The monolith is self repairing as it goes, and they can summon almost literal demigods that near invincibility.

Transformers I think would take a decent second, if there wasn't so few of them.

I haven't seen the newest Terminator, so I'm not entirely sure what powers they now possess, but excluding the time travel ability they lose from what I know.

(And humanity would win of course, all they have to do is find the God-Emperor! :smalltongue: Besides, we can't be empathic toward a murderous race of machinery, so humans have to at least survive for a sequel.)

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-24, 07:31 AM
I haven't seen the newest Terminator, so I'm not entirely sure what powers they now possess, but excluding the time travel ability they lose from what I know.

Time traveling would just make things worse, since Necrontyr had access to a lot more C'Tan.

J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 07:35 AM
If you haven't seen any of these, it goes like this:

Skynet: Large numbers, near-absolute level of control (they can mobilise when a sensor so much as picks up music from a car's radio), nuclear weapons. Time travel.

Weakness: Units are puny individually, vulnerable bases (factories, HQ).

Transformers: Huge, very resilient, very fast individually.

Weakness: Pitifully few, obviously, but with humans... Also, emotion. Of the three sides, they are the only ones worried about their mortality.

Necrons: They are always back, overpowering firepower, overload of hatred...

Weakness: If the Tomb falls, game over.

Basically, Skynet can nuke the Tomb every time, then if it fails, time travel and try again until it works? :smalltongue:

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-24, 07:41 AM
Basically, Skynet can nuke the Tomb every time, then if it fails, time travel and try again until it works? :smalltongue:

'Cept it never works. Necrons are several orders of magnitude above Skynet and the Transformers put together it's not even funny. Their most basic grunt weapon displaces the atoms in your body with every shot. It doesn't care what your armor is, it just takes you apart like a crappy Ikea table. That of course ignores the fact that a single Necron Lord could continually revive any fallen Necrons, a Lord Destroyer from Dark Crusade would be able to possess Skynet or just a single monolith would be an invincible floating death cannon.

A better scenario is Skynet vs Transformers alone.

ImmortalAer
2009-06-24, 07:44 AM
'Cept it never works. Necrons are several orders of magnitude above Skynet and the Transformers put together it's not even funny. Their most basic grunt weapon displaces the atoms in your body with every shot. It doesn't care what your armor is, it just takes you apart like a crappy Ikea table. That of course ignores the fact that a single Necron Lord could continually revive any fallen Necrons, a Lord Destroyer from Dark Crusade would be able to possess Skynet or just a single monolith would be an invincible floating death cannon.

A better scenario is Skynet vs Transformers alone.


Not to mention that Necrons can teleport thier buildings.

Incoming nuke. *crazy alien tracking symbols*
Trajectory ... traced.
Threat : Minimal.
Solution : Displace from threatened area.
*teleport*

J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 07:47 AM
So Skynet can send another nuke back in time and point it to the spot where they are teleporting.

Solution: Displace from threatened area.
*Teleport*
Incom-
*Radio silence*

Killer Angel
2009-06-24, 07:49 AM
With Necrons in play, there's no match.
Hell, with ANY of the WH40K races in play, there's no match, in this scenario. The difference between equipment and sheer power, it's too great.

ImmortalAer
2009-06-24, 07:50 AM
So Skynet can send another nuke back in time and point it to the spot where they are teleporting.

Solution: Displace from threatened area.
*Teleport*
Incom-
*Radio silence*


:smallconfused:

Now, playing it like that noone could possibly ever win against SkyNet.

Oh noes, your going to be a threat tomorrow. *nuke'd 10 days ago*

And there's going to be an enemy there... *time shifted nuke*
And there... *TSN*
And there... *TSN*
And...

kamikasei
2009-06-24, 07:54 AM
Is there ever any indication given that Skynet are that adept at using time travel? I mean, the whole reason the Terminator movies took place is because Skynet was losing to the human resistance in the future. Why would that be so if they had the kind of tactical continuity control you're suggesting they can casually sling around?

I don't know much about the Necrons, but since you're basically talking about taking one planet's worth of a galaxy-spanning hyper-advanced civilization and pitting them against a near-future Earth-only power and some scattered refugees from, yes, an advanced civilization but who are vulnerable to high-end modern weaponry, it seems like a no-brainer to say that the Necrons stomp their enemies into the dirt.

Killer Angel
2009-06-24, 07:56 AM
So Skynet can send another nuke back in time and point it to the spot where they are teleporting.


Skynet (salvation version) is almost dumb.
And terminators are patetically weak.

Avilan the Grey
2009-06-24, 07:59 AM
Is there ever any indication given that Skynet are that adept at using time travel? I mean, the whole reason the Terminator movies took place is because Skynet was losing to the human resistance in the future. Why would that be so if they had the kind of tactical continuity control you're suggesting they can casually sling around?

I agree... Skynet Sucks at time-travel.

AS for the rest... this is such a weird matchup. Necrons would win, and I don't even find them cool.

Mr.Silver
2009-06-24, 08:10 AM
Basically, Skynet can nuke the Tomb every time

Which will do all of diddly squat. Note that Necrons operate out of Tomb-Worlds (as is stated in the OP). Any weapon that isn't capable of something approaching a continental scale of destruction isn't going to get rid of it, being that the 'it' in question is a vast network of extrememly heavily fortified binkers buried under hundreds of metres of lifeless rock. Skynet doesn't have anything strong enough to even approach that, nor does it have the capacity to launch intersteller warefare which it needs to even hit it. The transformers do at least have that ability, but again probably lack the kind of destructive power necessary.

On an earth fight, Necrons have numbers, tech, firepower reasources and manouverability (teleportation and conventional thanks to their lighter spacecraft which are capable of atmospheric flight without any handicap) to the point that they just shouldn't even be here. Their advantage is so ridiculous that it essentially renders the fight a foregone conclusion. Even with Time Travel.

On that last point, btw, isn't Skynet's access to Time Travel is rather limited? By the canon Terminator franchise, whatever is sent back has to at the very least be outwardly indistiguishable from a living organism, hence why it sent terminators back to kill the Conners, rather than just dropping several nukes within about half a mile of where they lived.

J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 08:12 AM
I find Necrons cool, and I'd "like" for them to win, but am mildly annoyed at how easy you make it seem to be.

I mean, one Tomb-world has a reasonable chance of being destroyed by... space marines, who are basically tough guys in power suits with machineguns, if they plant a nuke in it. Between nukes and huge robots, Skynet has much more firepower than that, and time travel on top of it.

I mean, Orcs were created to fight the Necrons and they are miserable, technologically.

The scenario is about one Tomb-world anyway, not Necrons all across the universe. Very little can compare to interstellar assaults. I'd say something like "Necrons vs Star Wars Empire" and it'd still be unfair...

Though I agree than in light of their continued failures, machines don't seem very adept at time-travelling.

What about Matrix-style "machines"? Would they be a more reasonable opponent than Skynet? We don't get much about their actual strength from the movies, by numbers alone, they would match-up against Necrons more like Orcs Orks.

Prime32
2009-06-24, 08:16 AM
Depends on which continuity of the Transformers we're talking about.

Some of them are really frigging powerful. I mean, just watch this: Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtmmJxjVqfk&fmt=18), Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzO4uYvb5N0&fmt=18), Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUF3uPMYf-0&fmt=18).

Yes, he took multiple planet-smashing blasts to the chest at point-blank range and still didn't go down.

Aotrs Commander
2009-06-24, 08:19 AM
If Skynet is allowed to use time travel as an "I win" button, then it's not a contest. However, it would seem from empirical evidence that machine races just do not do time-travel all that well (see also Daleks) since they are nearly always foiled by some passing hero. (Which the Transformers have in spades.)

Also, this:


So Skynet can send another nuke back in time and point it to the spot where they are teleporting.

Solution: Displace from threatened area.
*Teleport*
Incom-
*Radio silence*

-doesn't work since if the Necron sensors can pick a nuke up AT ALL (which they damn well ought to) then it doesn't matter when you send it back because it'll always be there (and thus detected) before it explodes. You can't fire it at where the Necrons would be if they teleported, since if you haven't fired it they wouldn't teleport. You might, maybe, be able to fire two nukes at the same time one to make the Monolith teleport, one to hit it where it lands, assuming the Necrons don't just laugh hollowly and y'know, just shoot it down with their ridiculously higher tech anti-missiles defences (which they must have). Making a nuke mine has the same problem in that it would only work if you could somehow conceal the nuke where the Necrons were going to teleport to without them detecting it. (Because I'm pretty fraggin' sure they would scan the teleport site before making a blind jump. If they don't well, then they deserve getting their asses kicked by a vastly technologically inferior enemy!)

Seriously. Nukes are 20th century weapons. They're like the trebuchets some shore defences once used in a 17-18th century naval engagement. If they actually hit, by gum, the whacking great rock didn't half do some damage, but getting it to hit is the problem.

That aside, the Transformers also may have access to time travel (depending what continuity and when) and the definately do if they capture any Skynet tech, which obiviates the former's advantage. Also, given the disparity in tech levels between an ancient space-flight capable society and a primative machine race I'd say that the Transformers stand a very good chance of getting information out of Skynet before being caught.

A full-scale invasion by, say, the Decepticons (assuming a stealthy recon first) would fall in the favour of the Transformers (verses Skynet), just on simple tech-vrs-tech. Nukes are really nothing compared to what the Transformers could do if mass devastation and not plundering the planet was their aim.

I don't know enough about the Necrons - my only experience with them being Dawn of War - but I'd be utterly unsurprised if nuking a monolith failed do destroy it, assuming you could get past any point-defences or jamming it had. And if the Necrons got hold of the time-travel technology, it'd be easily game over.

I'd be inclined most of all to say the 'winners' would be the Autobots due to the fact that both Necrons and Skynet have a distinct lack of 'heroes' who could stand up in a fight to an Autobot and the Deceptions very rarely win anyway. The Autobots'd do whatever crap it was they had to do, outwitting Skynet, Necrons and Decepticons alike and bugger off sharpish (unless Optimus Prime went all Creation Matrix/"The Touch" on Skynet and the Necrons both - presumably after dying seventeen-and-a-half times in the process - and reformatted them all or something).

If it all came down to a time-travel battle, then I'd say the advantage lies with them who has heroes - because it always does (laws of Narrative Causality and all that) - and thus the Autobots (or possibly the Decepticons, but less likely so.)

In a more straight-up fight, whoever could bring the most resources to bear fastest would win between the Transformers and the Necrons, with Skynet's advantages being negated by the tech difference. From what little I know, I'd say the Necrons would thus win out, as they are simply more numerous, and if what you tell me is true, even their infantry could pose a threat to a transformer in modest numbers.

Necrons vrs Daleks vrs Transformers might be a bit more of a balanced match.

J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 08:23 AM
I am not familiar with Daleks... google makes them look silly :smalltongue:

As for nukes being 20th century weapons, this mentions nukes do clear up tomb worlds fine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrons#Fighting_the_Necrons)... Having heroes do it is an added bonus for Autobots. But I'll be honest and tell you I have not read enough Warhammer 40k books to say if it's accurate.

kamikasei
2009-06-24, 08:30 AM
I am not familiar with Daleks... google makes them look silly :smalltongue:

They do look silly. They've also committed genocide in pretty much every part of the universe. Anyway, the Transformers are quite literally children's toys, so let's not make this about looks :P

Mr.Silver
2009-06-24, 08:31 AM
I find Necrons cool, and I'd "like" for them to win, but am mildly annoyed at how easy you make it seem to be.

I mean, one Tomb-world has a reasonable chance of being destroyed by... space marines, who are basically tough guys in power suits with machineguns. Between nukes and huge robots, Skynet has much more firepower than that, and time travel on top of it.
Which it can't bring to bear on account of the aforementioned lack of interplanetary range. And again, Skynet's time travel abilities are an awful lot less than you seem to think they are. A few T-800s, or even T-1000s, are not going to be much use against the necrons regardless of when they're sent back (Necrons have been around in essentially their present forms and tech level longer than humanity has existed as a species).

You're also severely underestimating Space Marines here, both physically and in tech, but that's another matter. Suffice to say, Skynet doesn't really compare to them in terms of firepower either.


I mean, Orcs were created to fight the Necrons and they are miserable, technologically.
They also are very strong physically, completely fearless, insanely numerous thanks to their spores (little short of massive-scale environemental destruction is going to remove an Ork population on a world, if that) and that isn't counting the whole Waagh! thing. Their actual effectiveness in-terms of win-loss against the necrons isn't particularly spectacular either.


The scenario is about one Tomb-world anyway, not Necrons all across the universe.
I know, and it's still a curbstomp


Very little can compare to interstellar assaults. I'd say something like "Necrons vs Star Wars Empire" and it'd still be unfair..
Yes, it would. Necrons are at the top end of the 40k galaxy in terms of power. It quite simply isn't worth bringing them into these kinds of discussions if you can help.


Though I agree than in light of their continued failures, machines don't seem very adept at time-travelling.

I get the impression Time-travel in the Terminator future is pretty limited anyway.


What about Matrix-style "machines"? Would they be a more reasonable opponent than Skynet? We don't get much about their actual strength from the movies, by numbers alone, they would match-up against Necrons more like Orcs.
Don't know about the Matrix machines, but seriously just forget the Necrons. Leave them out, and the thread'll be more interesting for it.

Aotrs Commander
2009-06-24, 08:38 AM
I am not familiar with Daleks... google makes them look silly :smalltongue:

Yes, they look silly when you look at them the first. But that's kinda the point. If you've never seen them in action, you won't know how actually nasty they are. The Daleks are actually scary, and not just because they are hard. They are all genius-level intellect, heavily shielded and armoured, with really nasty weapons, they fly and that thing that looks like a sink-plunger? That's actually a manipulative arm that can also suck out your brains.

This, I think, is perhaps one of their more entertaining moments from the more recent episodes of Doctor Who. It might not be them showing their strength so much, but it's where it shows them at their most cool...

Daleks vrs cybermen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBSOhODoch0)

They are the only race to pose a threat to the Time-Lords (who are, like, the most advanced crowd anywhere because they are, y'know, time-travellers). The Daleks are pretty damn good with time travel and it it wasn't for the Doctor showing up every single time, they'd have conquored the whole universe about umpteen million times.

Those four Daleks in that clip?

They came out of the Genesis Arc they mentioned; which had survived going beyond the boundries of space-time and reality into nothingness and it contained - that little thing you see in front of them when they're speaking to the Cybermen - millions of Daleks.

ImmortalAer
2009-06-24, 08:51 AM
I mean, one Tomb-world has a reasonable chance of being destroyed by... space marines, who are basically tough guys in power suits with machineguns, if they plant a nuke in it. Between nukes and huge robots, Skynet has much more firepower than that, and time travel on top of it.


Let's get into the grit for Space Marines!

(This is for fun, please don't open the spoiler if you don't want to read the copy-pasta paragraphs about SM > Life.)



First! The basic Bolter, the ubiquitous 'machine gun' as you called it.


• 4 Shot Burst

• As the bolt round is fired and leaves the barrel, the bolt's tiny rocket is ignited, which carries the warhead forward and imparts a stabilising spin. In a conventional firearm, the projectile begins to lose velocity as soon as it leaves the barrel. A bolt, however, continues to accelerate throughout its trajectory due to the additional thrust.

•Standard Bolts comprise the following components: Outer casing, propellant base, main charge, mass reactive detonator cap, depleted deuterium core, diamantine tip. The standard bolter shell is standardised at .75 calibre, whereas heavy bolter rounds are larger, at 1.00 Cal.

• More on the ammo : A millisecond fuse detonates the warhead after it has penetrated the target, however at extremely close range the bolts are known to pass through the target, only putting a hole in the target the size of the round and exploding behind it.

• M40 targeting scope (Think a mixture of a Sniper and ACOG)

• Ammo Counter (...No real additional power, just nice utility.)

• Sinister/Dexter locking mechanism. (Safety first!)


And now the Power Armour...


• It is a completely enclosed suit of armour, made of thick ceramite (Ceramite > Titanium) plates. The armour would be heavy and cumbersome to wear but for the electrically motivated fibre bundles within the armour that replicates the wearer's movement and enhances his strength.

• Power armour is fully sealed, isolating the wearer from the outside environment and protecting him from gas weapons and harsh atmospheres. It also commonly includes numerous auxiliary systems such as communicators, auto-senses, etc.

• Space Marines go through an arduous process where they receive various implants culminating with the implantation of the Black Carapace which allows the Marine a direct and instinctual interface with the armour, making it in effect a second skin. The advanced systems of Space Marine power armour also monitor the Marine's biological functions, feeding the medical information to the Marine.

• The backpack contains the main power plant, (Fission/Fusion) environmental system and additional stabilizers.


And now the MASSIVE list of auguments that they get!

Phase 1 - Secondary Heart- This simplest and most self-sufficient of implants allows a Space Marine to survive his other heart being damaged or destroyed, and to survive in low oxygen environments. Not just a back-up, the secondary heart can boost the blood-flow around the Marine's body.2

Phase 2 - Ossmodula - A small, tubular and complex organ, the ossmodula secretes hormones that both affect the ossification of the skeleton and encourage the forming bone growths to absorb ceramic-based chemicals that are laced into the Marine's diet.2 This heavily alters the way the Space Marine's bones grow and develop. Two years after this implant is first put in the subject's long bones will have increased in size (along with most other bones) and the rib cage will have been fused into a solid mass of bulletproof, interlocking plates.

Phase 3 - Biscopea - This small, circular organ is inserted into the chest cavity and releases hormones that vastly increase muscle growth throughout the marine's body. It also serves to form the hormonal basis for many of the later implants.

Phases 1-3 can be introduced at the same time, ideally between 10 and 14 years of age.2
Phase 4 - Haemastamen - Implanted into the main circulatory system, this tiny implant not only increases the haemoglobin content of the subjects blood, making it more efficient at carrying oxygen around the body and making the subject's blood a bright red, it also serves to monitor and control the actions of the phase 2 and phase 3 implants.2

Phase 5 - Larraman's Organ - A liver-shaped organ about the size of a golf-ball, this implant is placed within the chest cavity and connected to the circulatory system. It generates and controls 'Larraman cells' which are released into the blood stream if the recipient is wounded. They attach themselves to leucocytes in the blood and are carried to the site of the wound, where upon contact with air they form a near instant patch of scar tissue, sealing any wounds the Space Marine may suffer.

Phases 4 and 5 can be introduced at the same time, ideally between 12 and 14 years of age.2
Phase 6 - Catalepsean Node - Implanted into the back of the brain, this pea-sized organ influences the circadian rhythms of sleep and the body's response to sleep deprivation. If deprived of sleep, the catalepsean node cuts in. The node allows a Marine to sleep and remain awake at the same time by switching off areas of his brain sequentially. This process cannot replace sleep entirely, but increases the Marines survivability by allowing perception of the environment while resting2. This means that a Space Marine needs no more than 4 hours of sleep a day, and can potentially go for 2 weeks without any sleep at all.

Hypnotherapy normally begins at this point in the process, ideally sometime between 14 and 17 years of age.2
Phase 7 - Preomnor - This is essentially a pre-stomach that can neutralise otherwise poisonous or indigestible foods. No actual digestion takes place in the preomnor, as it acts as a decontamination chamber placed before the natural stomach in the body's system and can be isolated from the rest of the digestive tract in order to contain particularly troublesome intake.2

Phase 8 - Omophagea - This implant allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences. It is the presence of this organ which has lead to the various flesh-eating and blood-drinking rituals for which the Astartes are famous, as well as giving names to chapters such as the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers. Over time, mutations in this implant have given some chapters unnatural craving for blood or flesh.2

Phase 9 - Multi-lung - This additional lung activates when a Space Marine needs to breathe in low-oxygen or poisoned atmospheres, and even water. The natural lungs are closed off by a sphincter muscle associated with the multi-lung and the implanted organ takes over breathing operations. It has highly efficient toxin dispersal systems.2

Phases 7 to 9 are normally introduced simultaneously, ideally at a point between 14 and 16 years old. The following series of organs are also ideally implanted between the ages of 14 and 16.2
Phase 10 - Occulobe - This implant sits at the base of the brain, and provides hormonal and genetic stimuli which enable a Marine's eyes to respond to optic-therapy. This in turn allows the Apothecaries to make adjustments to the growth patterns of the eye and the light-receptive retinal cells - the result being that Space Marines have far superior vision to normal humans, and can see in low-light conditions almost as well as in daylight.2

Phase 11 - Lyman's Ear - Not only does this implant make a Space Marine immune from dizziness or motion sickness but also allows Space Marines to consciously filter out and enhance certain sounds. The Lyman's Ear completely replaces a Marine's original ear. It is externally indistinguishable from a normal human ear.

Phase 12 - Sus-an Membrane - Initially implanted above the brain, this membrane eventually merges with the recipient's entire brain. Ineffective without follow-up chemical therapy and training, but with sufficient training a Space Marine can use this implant to enter a state of suspended animation, consciously or as an automatic reaction to extreme trauma, keeping the Marine alive for years, even if he has suffered otherwise mortal wounds. Only the appropriate chemical therapy or auto-suggestion can revive a Marine from this state. The longest recorded period spent in suspended animation was undertaken by Brother Silas Err of the Dark Angels, who was revived after 567 years.2 It should also be noted that Talonmaster Zso Sahaal of the Night Lord's legion spent nearly ten thousand years in suspended animation when his ship was entombed in the warp by the Eldar, however time in his ship may not have passed at the same rate as in normal space.

Phase 13 – Melanochrome - This implant controls the amount of melanin in a Marine's skin. Exposure to high levels of sunlight will result in the Marine's skin darkening to compensate. It also protects the Marine from other forms of radiation.2

Phase 14 – Oolitic Kidney - In conjunction with the secondary heart this implant allows a Space Marine to filter his blood very quickly, rendering him immune to most poisons. This action comes at a price, however, as this emergency detoxification usually renders the Marine unconscious while his blood is circulated at high speed. The organ's everyday function is to monitor the entire circulatory system and allow other organs to function effectively.2

Phase 15 - Neuroglottis - This enhances a Space Marine's sense of taste to such a high degree that he can identify many common chemicals by taste alone. A Marine can even track down his target by taste.

Phases 14 and 15 may be introduced at the same time, ideally between 15 and 16 years of age. The remaining series of implants are then ideally introduced to the recipient between the ages of 16 and 18.2
Phase 16 - Mucranoid - This implant allows a Space Marine to sweat a substance that coats the skin and offers resistance to extreme heat and cold and can even provide some protection for the marine in a vacuum. This can only be activated by outside treatment, and is common when Space Marines are expected to be fighting in vacuum.

Phase 17 - Betcher's Gland - Consists of two identical glands, implanted either into the lower lip, alongside the salivary glands or into the hard palette. The gland works in a similar way to the poison gland of venomous reptiles by synthesizing and storing deadly poison, which the Marines themselves are immune to due to the gland's presence. This allows a Space Marine to spit a blinding contact poison. The poison is also corrosive and can even burn away strong metals given sufficient time.

Phase 18 - Progenoids - There are two of these glands, one situated in the neck and the other within the chest cavity. These glands are vitally important and represent the future of the Chapter, as the only way new gene-seed can be produced is by reproducing it within the bodies of the Marines themselves. This is the implant's only purpose. The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine.

These take time (5 years in the first case, 10 in the latter)2 to mature into gene-seed. The gene-seed can then be extracted and used to create more Space Marines. See main article: Progenoids.

Phase 19 - Black Carapace - The most distinctive implant, it resembles a film of black plastic that is implanted directly beneath the skin of the Marine's torso in sheets. It hardens on the outside and sends invasive neural bundles into the Marine's body. After the organ has matured the recipient is then fitted with neural sensors and interface points cut into the carapace's surface.2 This allows a Space Marine to interface directly with his Power Armour.


And some final Marine-trivia that they get.

Chemical Treatment - Until his initiation, a Marine must submit to constant tests and examinations. The newly implanted organs must be monitored very carefully, imbalances corrected, and any sign of maldevelopment treated. This chemical treatment is reduced after completion of the initiation process, but it never ends. Marines undergo periodic treatment for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a stable metabolism. Marine power armour suits contain monitoring equipment and drug dispensers to aid in this.

Hypnotherapy - As the super-enhanced body grows, the recipient must learn how to use his new abilities. Some of the implants, specifically the phase 6 and 10 implants, can only function once correct hypnotherapy has been administered. Hypnotherapy is not always as effective as chemical treatment, but it can have substantial results. If a Marine can be taught how to control his own metabolism, his dependence on drugs is lessened. The process is undertaken in a machine called a Hypnomat. Marines are placed in a state of hypnosis and subjected to visual and aural stimuli in order to awaken their minds to their unconscious metabolic processes.

Training - Physical training stimulates the implants and allows them to be tested for effectiveness.

Indoctrination - Just as their bodies receive 19 separate implants, so their minds are altered to release the latent powers within. These mental powers are, if anything, more extraordinary than even the physical powers described above. For example, a Marine can control his senses and nervous system to a remarkable degree, and can consequently endure pain that would kill an ordinary man. A Marine can also think and react at lightning speeds. Memory training is an important part of the indoctrination too. Some Marines develop photographic memories. Obviously, Marines vary in intelligence as do other men, and their individual mental abilities vary in degree.



So yeah. Those guys in numbers/heros can take out an evil world of ancient machines.

Oslecamo
2009-06-24, 08:55 AM
They also are very strong physically, completely fearless, insanely numerous thanks to their spores (little short of massive-scale environemental destruction is going to remove an Ork population on a world, if that) and that isn't counting the whole Waagh! thing. Their actual effectiveness in-terms of win-loss against the necrons isn't particularly spectacular either.


Actually, for their size, orks are barely stronger than your average human. Guardsmen with pointy sticks are perfectly capable of holding the line against an equal number of ork grunts. Nobs are strong because they're big, and warbosses are the strongest because they're the biggest. They also use powerclaws to augment their own strenght.

Against necrons spores are hardly usefull, since the necrons specialized in purging worlds of all life down to the last bacteria, creating the infamous tomb worlds.

Now the WWWAAGHHHH!!!, that's what makes orks dangerous in the 40K universe.




I get the impression Time-travel in the Terminator future is pretty limited anyway.


Actually, in terminator world you can only time-teleport something living, or something covered in living tissue, so nukes are out of the question.

ImmortalAer
2009-06-24, 08:57 AM
Actually, in terminator world you can only time-teleport something living, or something covered in living tissue, so nukes are out of the question.

You just made me sick.

Because that led through to it's logical conclusion that SkyNet should have thought of ; skin enough humans, and wrap it around a nuke.

kamikasei
2009-06-24, 09:02 AM
You just made me sick.

Because that led through to it's logical conclusion that SkyNet should have thought of ; skin enough humans, and wrap it around a nuke.

Actually, my first thought on reading that point a bit earlier was: a) coat bomb in glue. b) roll around in large tub of babies. c) defeat Necrons via hilarity.

But then, the T1000 could be sent back despite not being organic at all, just (apparently) because it looked human. How's that work?

Mr.Silver
2009-06-24, 09:04 AM
You just made me sick.

Because that led through to it's logical conclusion that SkyNet should have thought of ; skin enough humans, and wrap it around a nuke.

I think the living tissue has to itself be living, or close enough to it. Note that the T-800s outer skin is intisguishable from a human's and seems to be able to heal, as well as containing some blood. It's not just dead flesh wrapped around the Terminator itself. The T-1000 was a bit different but then they're more advanced and hardly any were built.

Oslecamo
2009-06-24, 09:16 AM
But then, the T1000 could be sent back despite not being organic at all, just (apparently) because it looked human. How's that work?

The T1000 aparently could replicate living tissue to enough detail, since it could speack and actually replicate people's voices.

Also wrapping the nuke on human skin wouldn't be enough, since the skins would be dead.

Now wrapping it in human babies, it could worck, if Skynet just found enough living babies to completely wrap up a nuke.

OMG that's the reason why it was collecting humans in the last movie! To wrap them around those giant robots and airships and send them in the past! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!:smalltongue:

Blue Paladin
2009-06-24, 12:55 PM
Robocop enters the scene, driving an OCP regulation Ford Taurus. He steps out, stomping his way towards the grand melee. "This is an unlawful gathering. Disperse at once, or I will be forced to arrest you."

Necrons, being the enigmatic slaughterbots that they are, instantly stand down. In the distance, WH40K fanboy voices cry out in disbelief, and message boards suddenly spring up with mass random guessing. "That's bull****!" "Wait a sec, Necrons never disobey orders..." "So Robocop is C'tan?"

It's been already established in the Robocop vs Terminator comic book that Skynet itself was based on technology based on Robocop himself. The Terminators line up quietly.

The Autobots, seeing legal authority on the scene, confusedly pull away from the crowd, keeping a wary eye on the Decepticons.

The Decepticons, predictably, keep smashing the hell out of everyone else.

"I said stand down." Robocop draws his autopistol from his hip. "I will take action."

Megatron laughs at the absurdity of the little metal human and his pathetic weaponry, crushing another group of suddenly docile Necrons, and blasting rows of dormant Terminators.

"This is your final warning. I have been authorized to use lethal force." Alas, ignored just like all the other warnings. Robocop fires his weapon, the bullets bouncing uselessly off Decepticon plating.

"Boys, a little back up please." As one, the Terminators rush in and pile on, Decepticons struggling uselessly under the combined weight of thousands. At the same time, the Necrons all power up their gauss weaponry and in a flash, vaporize Megatron to his component molecules. The other Decepticons instantly stop moving, optics wide in shock.

"Return to your homes now, in an orderly manner." Robocop twirls his gun and holsters it. "Thank you for your cooperation." Hearing on the police band that there's a robbery in progress at the 7-Eleven, Robocop returns to his Taurus and drives off.

The Terminators march away and the Necrons fade out, leaving behind a bewildered group of Autobots, a pile of still-stunned Decepticons, and, far in the distance, the faint howls of nerdrage...

chiasaur11
2009-06-24, 01:07 PM
Odd.

No-one has asked a very important question. Which transformers we talking about?

Film transformers could do some good, but they're a smallish population who can be downed (with effort) by man portable weapons. Enough power to take some Necrons, but not all of them.

Other Transformer societies, however...

Animated: Large civilization with a mostly stable FTL network and abilities as far ranging as functional immortality, insane speed, or ninja telekinesis (the last one? Dozens of guys can do it to some degree.)

Marvel UK: Advanced society with some time travel capabilities, at least one known case of nigh invulnerability, and ties to a couple of full on gods.

Cybertron: Whole networks of colony worlds, one of which is populated by beings the size of modern skyscrapers, access to supernatural artifacts of their god planet, and said god planet.

And we aren't even getting into the really overpowered stuff. Don't look up "Alternity". Just... don't bother.

J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 01:32 PM
I was thinking Film transformers, but seeing as I apparently underestimated the Necrons initially, go crazy. Say Cybertron, because I don't remember what Alternity is from my childhood days.

Talkkno
2009-06-24, 01:44 PM
Actually, for their size, orks are barely stronger than your average human. Guardsmen with pointy sticks are perfectly capable of holding the line against an equal number of ork grunts. Nobs are strong because they're big, and warbosses are the strongest because they're the biggest. They also use powerclaws to augment their own strenght.

.

Looks like you've been reading too much imperial proganda, regular Ork boyz with choppas have been known to cut threw space marine armor, albeit with some difficultly

chiasaur11
2009-06-24, 01:51 PM
I was thinking Film transformers, but seeing as I apparently underestimated the Necrons initially, go crazy. Say Cybertron, because I don't remember what Alternity is from my childhood days.

Alternity's the new Alternators-y stuff.

Basically, it's Transformers-as-Batman Wizard.

Way less "Don't ask. Just... don't ask" than Kiss Play (DO NOT ASK), but more of said not asking than average for the series.

Trans-Tech is also fairly high on the power scale, but in a much saner way.

Back to the fighting: Cybertron might have a chance. There are whole armies of guys, all of whom can take impressive amounts of punishment (except maybe the traffic light.) Add in some guys who are as big in comparison to other transformers as said other transformers are in comparison to puny humans, and either a united front or a multidimensional singularity as old as the species with time travel powers, and the good guys might have a solid shot.

Ghal Marak
2009-06-24, 02:01 PM
Skynet might have a chance. In the OP, it was stated that they have possession of Megatron. Skynet should be more than able to replicate transformer technology. So, my guess would be they would start seeing transforming terminators, not to mention usage of transformer weaponry.

Zeful
2009-06-24, 02:34 PM
So Skynet can send another nuke back in time and point it to the spot where they are teleporting.

Solution: Displace from threatened area.
*Teleport*
Incom-
*Radio silence*

TIME TRAVEL DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

They can't send inorganic material through their time machine without first adding a layer of biological material to it. It's why all of the terminators appear naked and human-looking when they go back. So short of stuffing the nuke inside a dog, it ain't going anywhere.

Thrawn183
2009-06-24, 03:22 PM
How about a nuke inside a whale?

Edit: Oh, and there's no point debating about warhammer because it's so internally inconsistent.

Supagoof
2009-06-24, 03:30 PM
Sorry, but Transformers - specifically the Autobots win.

Why? They side with humans. Which gives them the alliance with Chuck Norris....:smallamused:

J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 03:39 PM
TIME TRAVEL DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

They can't send inorganic material through their time machine without first adding a layer of biological material to it. It's why all of the terminators appear naked and human-looking when they go back. So short of stuffing the nuke inside a dog, it ain't going anywhere.

They solved that problem on the first page, Skynet'd just wrap fleshy babies around the nuke :smallbiggrin:

Also, good point on Chuck Norris :smalltongue:

Verruckt
2009-06-24, 03:58 PM
Wait, didn't this already happen? The terminators are obviously the Men of Iron, the Transformers might be the Men of Gold. If so we already know how this one ends!

Something like this:

Necrons show up in T:Salvation Era earth, upon which the Transformers (movie for simplicity's sake) are already doing battle. Things go from Bad to Worse. Necrons start flaying things, Megatron is monologue-ing, the Autobots are squabbling over who's got the touch, who's got the power, C'tan are whizzing about decieving and bringing night as they are wont to do, and for some inexplicable reason Marla Singer is a bald AI who can't figure out how to properly utilize time travel.

Then John Connor reveals that on his birth he received the souls of the mystic gestalt known as the God Emperor and proceeds to unite the rest of humanity against the mechanical menace. He destroys Skynet, makes the Void Dragon his woman and imprisons it on Mars and goes back in time to murder Michael Bay with a pipewrench for good measure.

Oslecamo
2009-06-24, 04:20 PM
Looks like you've been reading too much imperial proganda, regular Ork boyz with choppas have been known to cut threw space marine armor, albeit with some difficultly

Actually, ork boyz cut trough power armor not because of their strenght but because of their "believe it!" powers. If the orks believe something worcks, then it worcks. So just like they can turn a pile of slag into a worcking tank, their choppas can cut trough space marine armor just like it was guardsmen armor, just because they believe it!

For example, there were even imperial report of orks stealing vehicles wich hadn't got a drop of fuel inside! But since the ork lootas believed they could moved, they moved.

See also: red ones goes faster.

Verruckt:You're making a reference to "heroic age" by any possibility?

Verruckt
2009-06-24, 05:08 PM
Verruckt:You're making a reference to "heroic age" by any possibility?

Essentially yes, 40k ancient history is rather nebulous, but there seems to be a very strong implication that humanity used to have much much better technology then they do in the 41st millennium. Then the "Men of Iron" (read: AIs) rebelled and humanity lost contact with her colonies, and remained so until the Emperor's reconquista.

J.Gellert
2009-06-24, 05:58 PM
Essentially yes, 40k ancient history is rather nebulous, but there seems to be a very strong implication that humanity used to have much much better technology then they do in the 41st millennium. Then the "Men of Iron" (read: AIs) rebelled and humanity lost contact with her colonies, and remained so until the Emperor's reconquista.

Gasp! If that's true, I think we are on to something... :smalltongue: And Connor does seem to have an overdose of "destiny (http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target188.html)" going for him, compared to what we've seen him doing.

lisiecki
2009-06-24, 08:52 PM
I find Necrons cool, and I'd "like" for them to win, but am mildly annoyed at how easy you make it seem to be.



So Skynet can send another nuke back in time and point it to the spot where they are teleporting.

Solution: Displace from threatened area.
*Teleport*
Incom-
*Radio silence*

Brain hurts now

lisiecki
2009-06-24, 09:00 PM
Also

The Necrons and skynet lose when Metroplex and Trypticon get invloved in the fight.

Skynet has giant robots

The transfromers have robots that are big enough to become citys.

The team that has two giant robot with the mass of New York City

Wins

________EDIT_______

Oh ya, AND Unicron AND Primus

Does Skynet have enough nukes to destroy to robots that are the size of PLANETS one who has the ability to rip through realitys at will?

And if they do, how do they take out the rest of the transformers?

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-24, 09:17 PM
Big Pile of Awesome

Why are you people still posting in a thread clearly won by Blue Paladin? It's over already. :smalltongue:

Killer Angel
2009-06-25, 06:22 AM
Why are you people still posting in a thread clearly won by Blue Paladin? It's over already. :smalltongue:

True.
That said, my user title is orc in the playground, and, as an ork, this thread is not over 'til i Believe it's closed.
It's a shame it's not painted in red... otherwise, we'll have touched 5 pages.

lisiecki
2009-06-25, 07:51 AM
I find Necrons cool, and I'd "like" for them to win, but am mildly annoyed at how easy you make it seem to be.


In the fiction, Necrons, Like all the other factions, exist to take over entire planets in a matter of days. Skynet gets outwitted by bimbo waitresses and 12 year old boys on a regular basis. The Necrons, and Transformers opperate on a diffrent scale than Skynet.


I mean, one Tomb-world has a reasonable chance of being destroyed by... space marines, who are basically tough guys in power suits with machineguns, if they plant a nuke in it. Between nukes and huge robots, Skynet has much more firepower than that, and time travel on top of it.

Tough Guys, with redundent organs, in


power armour, has an outer shell of ceramite bonded plates powered by electrically-motivated fibre bundles. Plates of heavy plasteel further armour the ceramite sections, especially on the front of the suit. External adamantium ribs support the immense weight of the armour


The "Machine guns" they use against Necrons fire Kraken
Kraken Pattern Penetrator Rounds are powerful armour-piercing rounds. The deuterium core is replaced by a solid adamantine core and uses a heavier main charge. Upon impact, the outer casing peels away and the high velocity adamantium needle accelerates into the victim, where the larger detonator propels shards of super hardened metal further into the wound. These are effective against heavily-armoured infantry.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/lisieckiart/sm.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/lisieckiart/sm1.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/lisieckiart/sm3.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/lisieckiart/sm4.jpg



I mean, Orcs were created to fight the Necrons and they are miserable, technologically.


Orks are the most psychically powerful race in 40k. There firearms have no moving parts. They have seen other races fire guns, so they have gun shaped pieces of metal, that put holes in people, because orks beleve they should.


The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

Ork truks that are painted red, go faster because Orks think they should.

Also Orks are a fungal race, once there on a planet, the only way to get rid of them is to virus bomb the planet, making it in to a molten ball.


The scenario is about one Tomb-world anyway, not Necrons all across the universe. Very little can compare to interstellar assaults. I'd say something like "Necrons vs Star Wars Empire" and it'd still be unfair...

One tomb world is more than enough to take out skynet, and any humans running around on earth. unless they start throwing nukes around willy nilly.
Even then Monoliths exist only partially in the physical relm. Worse comes to worse, the deceiver notices his pets are losing, and makes Sol go supernova.

Though I agree than in light of their continued failures, machines don't seem very adept at time-travelling.



What about Matrix-style "machines"? Would they be a more reasonable opponent than Skynet? We don't get much about their actual strength from the movies, by numbers alone, they would match-up against Necrons more like Orcs Orks.
[/QUOTE]

Its a question of Scale.
The machines are designed to capture humans and use them for power.
Necrons are designed to destroy every living thing in existence.
Because they hate the living
because there not living.

Honestly the most likely necron response would be to kill the batteries, and then leave, and the machines power down later.

Its a question of scale

Oslecamo
2009-06-25, 07:52 AM
Why are you people still posting in a thread clearly won by Blue Paladin? It's over already. :smalltongue:

Because robocop wasn't invited to the party, so a victory by him isn't valid, otherwise I may as well summon SQUIRREL GIRL, DESTROYER OF HEROS!

Blue Paladin
2009-06-25, 11:14 AM
Because robocop wasn't invited to the party...Citizen, I suggest you re-read the opening post. Thank you.

[...Because honestly, I wouldn't have even thought to bring up ol' Robo if he weren't mentioned first :smallsmile:]

Elder Wraith
2009-06-25, 11:26 AM
Necrons. Even in 40k canon, it says that when all of the Necrons wake up and someone frees the nightbringer from what Uriel Ventris did to it, they'll win.

lisiecki
2009-06-25, 12:36 PM
Necrons. Even in 40k canon, it says that when all of the Necrons wake up and someone frees the nightbringer from what Uriel Ventris did to it, they'll win.

Well In all fairness, every codex book says the army its about is going to win

Oslecamo
2009-06-25, 01:59 PM
Well In all fairness, every codex book says the army its about is going to win

Eldars, imperial guard, spech merines and dark eldars disagree with you. They're all forces struggling to keep their head out of the water.

Tau survive becayse everybody is too busy killing each other and thus nobody can try to overwhelm Taus with their superior numbers. It also helps that the Tau are master diplomats.

Chaos claims it can't be defeated, but considering that they actually took all their forces togheter and still couldn't conquer a single planet defended by flashlights, thirteen times, they really aren't a very serious runner up to last race standing in the 40K universe. And the necrons do have a plan to shut down the warp.

Nids should win when they arrive. However, "when" they arrive could be sometime between a century and the total freezing of the universe.

So this just leaves da orks as the army about to win, but everybody knows they're there just for the lulz.

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-25, 02:05 PM
So this just leaves da orks as the army about to win, but everybody knows they're there just for the lulz.

Honestly, I think the orks would win. Why? Because they believe they should win, and thus will.

Though the Necron vs Tyranid scenario is the classic Unkillable Machine vs Unstoppable Organic question.. Err. Unmovable Object vs Unstoppable Force question.

Oslecamo
2009-06-25, 03:23 PM
Though the Necron vs Tyranid scenario is the classic Unkillable Machine vs Unstoppable Organic question.. Err. Unmovable Object vs Unstoppable Force question.

The nids will eventually run out of food. The necrons don't.:smalltongue:

On the other hand, the necrons technically won the last round on this galaxy when they curb stomped the old ones(even when they produced the orks), and the nids won their own round on some far away galaxy, so nids vs necrons it's probably how it will end.

chiasaur11
2009-06-25, 04:08 PM
The nids will eventually run out of food. The necrons don't.:smalltongue:

On the other hand, the necrons technically won the last round on this galaxy when they curb stomped the old ones(even when they produced the orks), and the nids won their own round on some far away galaxy, so nids vs necrons it's probably how it will end.

My money's still on Da Orks. Because, as Ghazghkull Thraka said: "We is gonna stomp da universe flat and kill anyfink that fights back. we're da Orks, and was made ta fight and win."

Note: If any =][= officers ask, someone else posted this. The Imperium will definitely win, and in fact has almost won already. The Emperor is just napping a little and will be up in no time, and the Imperial Guard is the best army ever.

(Well, they do have Commissar Cain. They might win at that.)

lisiecki
2009-06-25, 08:07 PM
Eldars, disagree with you. They're all forces struggling to keep their head out of the water.

they got rid of the "when all the eldar die all the souls combine in to one uber eldar that kills everyone that ever looked at them" plot line?

Devonix
2009-06-25, 08:43 PM
Pft. Transformers as a United front have Time Travel Expansive colony worlds. Large numbers of troops. Not millions but enough to field sizeable armies. The've Got FtL transport via Space bridges as well as some individual mechs posessing them. Matter conversion and Shunting via subspace. They've got weapons actually fueled by stars. Hell Look at the stats on Megatron's Fusion Cannon. Its powered by a Black Hole!

They have Telepaths and Knowlege of both Genetic and mechanical Enginering. Robots capable as functioning as cities for GIANT Robots. Transfomers United as a Race win hands down....

Except against the Necron...

Devonix
2009-06-25, 08:48 PM
Just noticed you said One Tombworld. Ok well The TF's are fully capable of taking on one Tombworld if you have enough and the "Right" transformers are there. There are plenty of Planetbuster Transformers out there.

But just who would be part of this since I doubt your giving us acess to all Transformers in such a thing.