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Primal Fury
2009-06-24, 04:19 PM
Well? Whatever happened to the good ol' days when you could turn on the TV in the afternoon and you could see some over-the-top action, some wacky comedy, or some other third thing that I can't tink of right now? I remember when Cartoon Network had both of these things, and even some old school stuff like Tom & Jerry, or the Jetsons, or when Nickelodeon had silly little shows that you new were a little dumb, but you loved them anyway. I mean, we still have Spongebob, but that's no excuse for the other trash that polutes my Happy Box.

Now we have iCarly, which not only trivializes the human condition in every way possible, but is also an awful show, with ludicrulously bad acting. And that's not even the worse part; the show might be tolerable if it didn't revolve around a webshow so... INCREDIBLY stupid as to give me multiple brain aneurysms in a single sitting. :smallfurious: And the star of this little turd also has a rather large role in Drake & Josh, which may be slightly less inane, but it still baffles me just how stupid the characters are. This little girl has the whole damn world wrapped around her finger, and her two brothers are complete tools. Drake is a moron, and Josh has no spine whatsoever. These two shows actually ruined Nickelodeon for me, so I rarely frequent that channel anymore.

But what they did to my precious Cartoon Network was unforgivealbe. It's starting to lose it's own namesake. The Othersiders? There's already a show like that, it's called GHOSTHUNTERS! :smallfurious: Adding little teenagers doesn't make any difference! Survive This... I understand that this might be an interesting show, as it is very similar to Survivor, and I will suspend my criticisms of how the show may endanger the lives of those kids. I simply want to know what it's doing on Cartoon Network, as it is not, you guessed it, A CARTOON! Brainrush... Another non-toon. I'm supposing it's sort of a gameshow type thing, as I've only ever seen a portion of it. This seems more like the sort of show that belongs on Nickelodeon.

Though I'm not even sure if the actual cartoons are any better. The League of Super Evil... It falls under the catagory I mentioned earlier: Stupid, yet somehow... still enjoyable, along with Chowder, and the Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack. Though the latter is rather... disturbing at times due in part to both art style and the content of the show as well. Much like Invader Zim. But Total Drama Island? If I wanted to see a reality show, I'd watch the non-toon ones, which are far more entertaining, if for no other reason that the "conflicts" that arise within the various groups. And 6Teen is nothing but... You know what? I won't even touch that one. I'm tired of this. I just wanted to get my stuff out there. I feel better now. :smallsmile:

thegurullamen
2009-06-24, 05:23 PM
Ever since the word "tween" was put on the marketers' maps back in the early Oughts, my guess is that any channel aimed at kids started trying to exploit the new market. (You know, the one that always existed except now it had a name?) They still do so, even at the cost of their other viewership.

Things like this are why TVTropes needs a 'Rants' section. This would fit well under Network Decay (which I suggest you look over.)

As for the specifics, you need to remember that

a) We had our own boatlods of schlock when we were younguns,
b) some shows aren't going to register with us like ours didn't register with older kids/adults when we were kids and that's natural
c) you're not the only one who feels that way about that uberScrappy/Wesley gestalt played by Cosgrove on D&J. Loathing doesn't come close to how much some people despise that character/show.

Piedmon_Sama
2009-06-24, 05:28 PM
I think you're being rather hard on Total Drama Island.... 6Teen, I wouldn't know, I can't sit through the theme song. >_>

JÝlly
2009-06-24, 05:35 PM
I feel you...I miss my Rocko's Modern Life and Ren & Stimpy. :smallfrown:

Primal Fury
2009-06-24, 06:26 PM
Ah! Thank you Jolly! Two more gems I missed, though Ren & Stimpy probly falls under the "subtely disturbing" catagory. :smalleek:

And yes, thegurullamen, we had our "schlock" as well, but our "schlock" revolved around pure and mindless fun, and just about everybody can enjoy that. Todays... stuff (schlock isn't the proper word for this, but it does start with an "s") is trying to appeal to a very specific type of audience, and giving the big ol' middle finger to everybody else. Now, I don't mind a show whose concept is just plain silly, you know, the kind that makes you go "Well that's just dumb, who thinks up this garbage?" Cuz I sometimes end up loving it anyway. But when the people themselves are so.... RAAAAGHRRRR!!! :smallfurious: Well... I just can't take that.

DamnedIrishman
2009-06-24, 06:32 PM
Ah! Thank you Jolly! Two more gems I missed, though Ren & Stimpy probly falls under the "subtely disturbing" catagory. :smalleek:

Ren & Stimpy was never intended for children. It's a grownup cartoon.

Prime32
2009-06-24, 06:32 PM
What about the DCAU? There was some good stuff there.

snoopy13a
2009-06-24, 06:40 PM
Ren & Stimpy was never intended for children. It's a grownup cartoon.

No, it was intended for children. It started on a children's network (Nickelodeon).

Berserk Monk
2009-06-24, 06:44 PM
For me, the biggest disappointment is Family Guy. I thought they were going to resurrect it, but they just brought it back as a zombie: a mindless abomination turning others into the brainless.

Squids Billies is good though.

On the bright side, anime hasn't changed: most of it sucks, but a small percentage of it has a good balance of crazy, badass, and depth.

Oh, as for the League of Super Evil, is that on Cartoon Network and has a character that's like 3 feet tall, red, and has a skull face? I saw some clips of that the other day whilst channel surfing and I kind of liked what I saw.

HamHam
2009-06-24, 07:36 PM
Total Drama Island is pretty entertaining actually. The additional level of fictionality actually improves the reality show formula.

The Blackbird
2009-06-24, 07:47 PM
I HATE cartoons nowadays almost any, there are a couple of good ones. I have a tendency to enjoy shows that were gone before I was born, like Rocky and Bullwinkle:smallbiggrin:.

Cubey
2009-06-24, 08:12 PM
This is just nostalgia. We have enough good cartoons today. We had more in the past - but that's because past is much BIGGER than present, so they had more time to create good cartoons. And the past had a lot of crap too, we simply don't remember it.

Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Chowder, Avatar the Last Airbender, Samurai Jack (not a recent production, but still modern). All of them kick ass - and that's just cartoons off the top of my head.
And Total Drama Island isn't bad either.

OracleofWuffing
2009-06-24, 08:13 PM
Oh, as for the League of Super Evil, is that on Cartoon Network and has a character that's like 3 feet tall, red, and has a skull face? I saw some clips of that the other day whilst channel surfing and I kind of liked what I saw.
Yup, that's the one.

The legacy of cartoons (not being a television network, I wouldn't know of any validity in its truth,) is that it costs more for 30 frames per second of animation than it does to just pay actors. So, if you're a cartoon, you either have to be a royal crackerjack at bringing in the money, or (in what may be called the Hanna-Barbera or Speed Racer school of animation) you have to be created on a dime. Granted, computers are getting more and more integrated into the animation process, which cuts the costs down a whole lot, but I guess that's evidently not enough. On top of all that, real TV like Other Siders and Survive This... Guess what, now you don't need to pay animators and writers!

But let's be honest here: Cartoon Network has been airing non-cartoon movies for a long while now, they've long lost the whole "We air cartoons" status with Son of the Mask, Honey, I shrunk the Kids, and the like. Remember, in this economy, you've got to be progressive. You can't just give the people what they want and what the network was designed to do. You've got to save money and tell the audience what they want. Now go make that Reality TV Show and shove it in between two 6-hour Scooby Doo Marathons!

Edit- Actually, Cubey, Foster's Home is no longer making new episodes, they had a series finale a while back. Don't know the status on Billy and Mandy.

chiasaur11
2009-06-24, 08:16 PM
What about the DCAU? There was some good stuff there.

Brave and The Bold is on now, and it's good.

Transformers Animated was also pretty ace until its recent cancellation. Which was unfortunate, especially given the average review of the film that replaced it.

Edit: Fosters is canceled?

____ing Cartoon networking can go _____ing ____ers can ____ing go to ____ing (it goes on like this for a while) ...with a _____ing Hippopotamus!

_____ing Othersiders...

(Billy and Mandy was ended too. Lame, but that's the way of the world. Been movies and reruns for a while still apparently.)

OracleofWuffing
2009-06-24, 08:28 PM
Edit: Fosters is canceled?

____ing Cartoon networking can go _____ing ____ers can ____ing go to ____ing (it goes on like this for a while) ...with a _____ing Hippopotamus!

_____ing Othersiders...
Yeah, I first read about it in a radom advertisement talking about some other show getting cancelled, and that Foster's tidbit was tacked on. There was a "Final Five" marathon consisting of five reruns, then five shows they hadn't aired in US. Reasons like this are why I'm glad to have a TV Tuner on my computer. It's not cancelled as it's still on air (I think), but there will be no more new episodes (Unless Cartoon Network does what it did with Dexter's Lab and resurrects it with a completely different crew).

I'll second Batman: The Brave and the Bold. It's the only Batman Cartoon I've liked. Heck, it's the only Non-Campy-Batman anything that I've liked.

Oh, and Primal Fury, I think you should give Disney a chance, they had a good few children's cartoons back in the day, and now they have Phinneas and Ferb.

...

Okay, they have little else now, but it's nice for a jewel in the rough.

Mando Knight
2009-06-24, 08:32 PM
Brave and The Bold is on now, and it's good.

My understatement senses are timidly raising their hands.

Batman: The Brave and the Bold (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold) is awesome. And Batman uses Green Lantern-based tech to stop a villain from using Mogo to destroy the Earth, aided only by Sinestro, G'nort, and Guy Gardner.

And then there's the episode where Batman teams up with the Joker (for a while) to defeat Owlman (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilTwin)... ending up using a trans-dimensional portal device to instantaneously spend a few weeks getting to know himself (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMultiverse).

Also, Aquaham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam). And Wil Wheaton (AKA Wesley Crusher) cameoing as the second Blue Beetle...

@OracleofWuffing: Whaddaya mean, not-campy? Compared to The Dark Knight, it's practically the 60's TV show mixed with a jar of Awesomesauce.

chiasaur11
2009-06-24, 08:36 PM
My understatement senses are timidly raising their hands.

Batman: The Brave and the Bold (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold) is awesome. And Batman uses Green Lantern-based tech to stop a villain from using Mogo to destroy the Earth, aided only by Sinestro, G'nort, and Guy Gardner.

And then there's the episode where Batman teams up with the Joker (for a while) to defeat Owlman (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilTwin)... ending up using a trans-dimensional portal device to instantaneously spend a few weeks getting to know himself (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMultiverse).

Also, Aquaham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam). And Wil Wheaton (AKA Wesley Crusher) cameoing as the second Blue Beetle...

@Oracleofwuffing: Whaddaya mean, not-campy? Compared to The Dark Knight, it's practically the 60's TV show mixed with a jar of Awesomesauce.

Yeah. It's win and awesome. I meant extremely good, not good.
(Although the recent Jonah Hex episode was oddly disappointing.)

OracleofWuffing
2009-06-24, 08:45 PM
@OracleofWuffing: Whaddaya mean, not-campy? Compared to The Dark Knight, it's practically the 60's TV show mixed with a jar of Awesomesauce.
My Campy-Sensors will not go off on a Batman whatchamacallit until it regularly goes POW, BIFF, and WHAM. Also, the participants must regularly break out in dance routines, and the na na na na na na na na theme song must be present. Until that happens, no, it is not campy Batman.

Mauve Shirt
2009-06-24, 09:02 PM
I've only seen one episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold. It was a Christmas episode. Batman doesn't like Christmas because his parents wouldn't buy him a toy he wanted when he was young. What a spoiled brat! I mean, at least it bringing back memories of his parents and his parents being dead and all blah blah blah, that would be in character, but Bruce being whiny about Christmas because 20 years ago he didn't get an action figure.... WHAT?!
Not as good as Batman the Animated Series.

You know what I always thought were good? What Cartoon Network labelled "Cartoon cartoons". It had Dexter's Lab, Courage the Cowardly Dog, and other things that I can't recall.

Nevrmore
2009-06-24, 09:03 PM
...and the Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack. Though the latter is rather...disturbing.
The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack is one of the best damn shows on TV right now.

The League of Super Evil is alright, too. And The Brave and The Bold is the first DC-oriented show, much less the first Batman cartoon, to keep me consistently entertained since the original Batman TAS. I nearly pissed myself at the end of the Bat-Mite episode when it went into an almost shot-for-shot remake of The Great Piggy Bank Robbery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPL0Qkni0Bg).

Mando Knight
2009-06-24, 09:13 PM
I've only seen one episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold. It was a Christmas episode. Batman doesn't like Christmas because his parents wouldn't buy him a toy he wanted when he was young. What a spoiled brat! I mean, at least it bringing back memories of his parents and his parents being dead and all blah blah blah, that would be in character, but Bruce being whiny about Christmas because 20 years ago he didn't get an action figure.... WHAT?!
Not as good as Batman the Animated Series.

It's because in that continuity, the Waynes went to the theater to see Zorro Not-Zorro-We-Swear (the same character as the one he wanted the action figure of) on Christmas day, after he threw the fit. And so he blames himself for what happened afterward. And that's why he dislikes Christmas: because it directly reminds him of his parents getting killed in cold blood on that day when he was whining about not having an action figure.

Primal Fury
2009-06-24, 09:14 PM
The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack is one of the best damn shows on TV right now.

Oh I agree whole-heartedly. But there are certain incidents that just creep me the hell out. Case in point: The first few minutes of the episode that had to do with the magical mermaids wishing candy. Rather than wishing to go to candied island, Flapjack was thinking about merging his own body with K'Nuckles's to create a foul abomination that would make Cthulhu wet himself. It was made worse by the fact that "It" spoke in the merged voice of the two and said "Now we are one." :smalleek:

I dislike Batman: The Brave and The Bold somewhat. I grew up with the "doom-and-gloom" batman cartoons, and this ones over-the-top comic book feel forced me to shy away.

I kind of backed off Disney when they stopped airing certain shows (i.e. Gargoyles. Come to think of it, I don't think that plot was ever resolved.)

hustlertwo
2009-06-24, 09:15 PM
When I was a kid during the early to mid 90's, it seemed like kids' movies were largely stupid, but there were tons of great kids' shows (some of which, like The Tick, are still entertaining to me as an adult). Nowadays it seems to be reversed. Pixar and Dreamworks bring some quality entertainment to the big screen, but none of the small-screen stuff seems up to snuff.

OracleofWuffing
2009-06-24, 09:23 PM
I kind of backed off Disney when they stopped airing certain shows (i.e. Gargoyles. Come to think of it, I don't think that plot was ever resolved.)
Hm.

Sounds like you're looking for the more edgy cartoons (that are NOT just "Darker and Edgier" regular shows), so... Yeah, Phinneas and Ferb is not going to be a good cartoon for you. It's pretty much over the top.

Rutskarn
2009-06-24, 09:47 PM
I used to love Gargoyles, which, considering I saw like 5 episodes, was impressive.

Xanatos was just so damn awesome, it was intoxicating.

Connington
2009-06-24, 09:53 PM
Gargoyles was great. To be honest, I never really saw why people who liked the serious stuff couldn't also enjoy lighter fare. Sure, I have favorite tones and motifs (Knight in Sour Armor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightInSourArmor) for example) but I like things across a wide range of the degrees of lightness and ridiculousness. Batman the Brave and the Bold is great. For the record, Phineas and Ferb is a great time killer too.

Rogue 7
2009-06-24, 10:27 PM
I am an old school Hey Arnold fanboy.

And I must actually defend iCarly. While I most certainly won't go out of my way to watch it, it's tolerable. Good writing, and Miranda Cosgrove is actually playing a sensible person here.

Most good cartoons in the past few years have already been canceled. Nothing I know is good is currently airing.

Haven
2009-06-24, 10:45 PM
It's because in that continuity, the Waynes went to the theater to see Zorro Not-Zorro-We-Swear (the same character as the one he wanted the action figure of) on Christmas day, after he threw the fit. And so he blames himself for what happened afterward. And that's why he dislikes Christmas: because it directly reminds him of his parents getting killed in cold blood on that day when he was whining about not having an action figure.

Yeah, this. I'd be pretty bitter about Christmas too if my parents had been murdered in front of me on.

Anyway, don't forget "The Spectacular Spider Man". It is also made of awesome. It's got some of the spiffiest action sequences I've seen in some time, plus...Gwen Stacy :3

TheThan
2009-06-24, 10:50 PM
Everything has gone down the drain.


I grew up on GI Joe , transformers, thundercats, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, and a variety of other cartoons, I have also had a healthy dosage of loony Toons, Tom and Jerry, moose and squirrel (thatís the rocky and Bullwinkle show for you younguns.) and a few other old shows. I have very fond memories of these older cartoons. Heck Iíve even went back and watched a lot of them and they are still great.

These new shows, just seem weak by comparison, I canít quite put my finger on why.

Hey you, get off my lawn!

:smallbiggrin:

Piedmon_Sama
2009-06-24, 11:11 PM
Oh I agree whole-heartedly. But there are certain incidents that just creep me the hell out. Case in point: The first few minutes of the episode that had to do with the magical mermaids wishing candy. Rather than wishing to go to candied island, Flapjack was thinking about merging his own body with K'Nuckles's to create a foul abomination that would make Cthulhu wet himself. It was made worse by the fact that "It" spoke in the merged voice of the two and said "Now we are one." :smalleek:

Dude, if Flapjack had been on when I was a child, I'm pretty sure the Mermaid at the end would have sent me running out of the room screaming. Even the end of that episode when it turns out things are alright:

"And Flapjack, all your dreams are going to come true!"

"Even the scary ones?"

"....Yes."

ImmortalAer
2009-06-24, 11:19 PM
Reboot, Beast(ies) Wars, Dexter's Lab, Animaniacs, Looney Toons, Sonic, Inspector Gadget... Man, my childhood had the good ones.

Avilan the Grey
2009-06-25, 01:22 AM
Personally I am a sucker for Sponge Bob. Seriously. It's better than any of the Hannah Barbera crap (After you figured out that there were no real monsters in Scooby, there was no point in watching it. And the Jetsons were just Flintstones! In Space! (well The Future!)). I still prefer Tex Avery and Looney Tunes though; and I have the complete collection (on DVD) of classic Donald Duck shorts...! A true treassure, that.

MCerberus
2009-06-25, 01:28 AM
For me it was Batman/Superman the Animated Series, Rocko, Angry Beavers, Animaniacs, Pink and the Brain, Dexter, and a whole lot I can't remember. Now there are a few gems (Billy and Mandy, Flapjack, Star Wars: Clone wars - note this is not the CG one) in a sea of junk. They don't even play any of the good old cartoons anymore. Batman gets hit with the censorbat on cable, and Loony Tunes is pretty much neutered to make it kid safe.

I honestly blame the success of the Pokemon series for starting the stupid trend. Sadly stupid is the new relevant.





Oh, and I liked Johnny Bravo.

TSED
2009-06-25, 02:36 AM
Ninja Turtles, Bump in the Night, X-Men.

I seriously pulled all nighters on fridays as a young child to make sure I watched these shows.

The newer X-Men and newer Ninja Turtles was basically childhood rape, and this is why I am a lonely and bitter adult.

chiasaur11
2009-06-25, 02:41 AM
Ninja Turtles, Bump in the Night, X-Men.

I seriously pulled all nighters on fridays as a young child to make sure I watched these shows.

The newer X-Men and newer Ninja Turtles was basically childhood rape, and this is why I am a lonely and bitter adult.

Ummm....

The new Turtles show is perfectly decent. Not Flash Forward, but the main one?

Not bad, and truer to the comics than the old one. For what that's worth.

(And most reviews I've read, even from people who liked it as kids, though the 90s X-Men cartoon was utter pants.)

Destro_Yersul
2009-06-25, 03:46 AM
Darkwing Duck.

That is all.

RMS Oceanic
2009-06-25, 04:06 AM
I have one word to say about Flapjack...

Weeessssssssssssssst...

I think high quality shows are hard to come by because of the sheer cost of them, and the Networks' relatively short attention span. Once Nickelodeon realised Avatar wasn't nearly as Toyetic as they thought, advertisements for it seems to have flatlined.

Cheesegear
2009-06-25, 04:54 AM
PC-ness destroyed cartoons. I remember the days of awesome cartoons in the afternoon; One of the best being Static Shock. The thing is, back in the 90s (and 80s, but I didn't see a whole lot of those), guns and drugs were shown in cartoons. They were always seen as bad (except in the case of Roger Ramjet and Steroids Proton Pills), but parents kind of ignored that.

I was taught in my early days, that the only way to stop giant terroist robots, was with other giant not-so-terrorist robots (Transformers and it's subsidiary; Beast Wars), the solutions to all my problems was a giant sword (He-Man), taking out Evil Megalomaniac Corporations could be done with aliens riding kick-a* motorbikes (Biker Mice from Mars) or, again, with giant not-so-terrorist robots (Bots-Master). And, of course there were always Mutant Turtles to stop the evil Ninjas.

And then there were crazy terrorists, who were crazy. They of course would get stomped all over by G.I. Joe and friends. Bravestarr and his crazy horse...They were AWESOME. M.A.S.K. as well.

Violence could often be solved with MOAR VIOLENCE. And all the heroes solved their problems with FIGHTING. Since that's not allowed anymore, that's why there are no good cartoons left.

I also urge everyone in this thread to take a look at War Planets: Shadow Raiders.

bosssmiley
2009-06-25, 05:04 AM
Everything has gone down the drain.


I grew up on GI Joe , transformers, thundercats, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, and a variety of other cartoons, I have also had a healthy dosage of loony Toons, Tom and Jerry, moose and squirrel (thatís the rocky and Bullwinkle show for you younguns.) and a few other old shows. I have very fond memories of these older cartoons. Heck Iíve even went back and watched a lot of them and they are still great.

Yes, the 80s truly were the golden age of cartoon, stop motion and puppetry animation.

Being American you may not be familiar with the all-conquering Great British Win that was Cosgrove Hall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosgrove_Hall_Films#Series_.26_productions) (creators of Fantomcat, Dangermouse, Count Duckula, Jamie and his Magic Torch,Pratchett's Truckers & Wyrd Sisters, Chorlton & the Wheelies, Wind in the Willows, etc.).

Cosgrove Hall, Film Fair (The Wombles, Paddington, the Trumptonshire trilogy) and Oliver Postgate's Smallfilms (Pogles' Wood, Noggin the Nog, Ivor the Engine, Clangers, Bagpuss) were a substantial part of the background noise of my childhood. There is a whole generation in the UK who get a bit nostalgic and misty-eyed when they hear the opening chords of the Bagpuss theme tune (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga23iSxyXO4).

At least the young-uns today can still get the old stuff on DVD/iTunes. :smallcool:

TSED
2009-06-25, 05:05 AM
Ummm....

The new Turtles show is perfectly decent. Not Flash Forward, but the main one?


Not bad, and truer to the comics than the old one. For what that's worth.


I don't know, I tried to watch something and it was just... ugh. I can't even tell you how long ago it was because

Did it occur to you that, you know, maybe I loved the turtles for that old cartoon persona and not the comics?

... Oh man, I am pretty sure there are about 400 turtle fanatics preparing to kill me in my sleep now.

Anyways, I did rewatch some of the old turtle shows. They weren't nearly as good as I remember, but hey. Nostalgia-induced rage trumps logical dismissal!


(And most reviews I've read, even from people who liked it as kids, though the 90s X-Men cartoon was utter pants.)

What? The 90s X-Men cartoon was amazing. Amaaaaaazing. I managed to find it on youtube a few months ago and watched the whole thing all over again. It was a touch cheesy in parts but it was still so good.

... SO GOOD!

DrakebloodIV
2009-06-25, 05:22 AM
6teen- Bought from some crappy side company from Canada. Crap, crap, crap.
Total Drama Island/Action- Bought from the same company, but I think that the director is different. I like it okay, but the second season is definitely better.
Survive this- Why Survivor-man isnt doing survivor-man is either about money or an intense dislike for children. Still, I must admit its funnier to watch spoiled teenage SoCal boopholes try and go through a situation that isnt half as dangerious as what Less goes through.
The Othesiders- Ghosthunters - Science (or illusion of science) + annoying idiot teens = Crap
Chowder- Fun, but only in an ADHD sort of way. Almost proof that television makes children dumber, almost.
Flapjack- Honestly, whoever writes this should be put to trial for abuse of my inner child. It's like diet spongebob, with that horrible diet flavor. It isnt even like those good early spongebobs. It combines the idiocy of the new spongebob with bad animation (see: Disturbing zoom ins), a narcissistic super squidward character who is alcoholic (sort of), a compulsive gambler, and an even bigger idiot than flapjack.


*Stuff they cancled I loved with a passion*

Codename: Kids next door- This show had EVERYTHING!. Insane characters, thoughful plot, creative recurring villains, incredibly off the wall animation, and the occasional movie character.
Fosters home for Imaginary Friends- This show has a lovingly crafted and quirky animation which only highlights the amazing cast. Almost all of the plot is driven by cast interaction bringing a normal problem or situation to incredible hights, all while a devoted few witty and kind characters try to control it. A comedy of errors at every turn.

Shademan
2009-06-25, 05:26 AM
and what the hell is the deal with all these crappy anime-ish shows about kids battling with ...WHATEVER! Spinning things, cards, MARBLES!!! WHYYY!?
they need to die!

ALOT!

okay....steam outta the system.
I actually liked Martin Mystery (based on the italian comic Martin MystŤre). it was quite fun. Ben 10, eh the kid is a bit to annoying for me. but the concept is GREAT and had i been younger, hoh boy, i would be locked to that screen.
Avatar: me and my dad watched em all. and we loved it.
but still... I wish there were some cartoon channel for us older fools. some with a bit of violence, a titty shot or two (perv speaking) you know! cartoons for us grown u- okay! cartoons for us CHILDISHLY grown ups.
...
well YOU grown ups. I'm still pretty young.


also: Am I the only one who liked new he-man?
though skeletor was underpowered...

DrakebloodIV
2009-06-25, 05:39 AM
I'll agree. Avatar was like crack for me. Especially the fight scenes. But even in the luls it had a nice plot and the drama was nice, if occasionally cheezy.

The newer ben 10's were lame, but the old ones kinda were too. There's gonna be a third ben 10 in a completely different setting, so we get to see if 3rd times the charm.

KjeldorMage
2009-06-25, 05:48 AM
I think it comes down to how shows actually had decent writing staffs when a lot of us were younger. Even shows that were giant commercials, like transformers and GI Joe's, had intriguing story lines with adult themes. (Hasbro had a hand in making the Joe's and Transformers)

That all changed with the Poke`mon revolution. It was a very cheap to produce show which was an even bigger commercial than it's American counter parts. This led to an anime` "craze" and a focus more on simpler story lines and more product placement.

So now most new kids shows have weak storylines with pseudo anime to straight on anime rip offs to make it seem "cool" to the children. Without realizing that they are not spuring on children's imagination.

This reality crap needs to go. Writers need to go back to what they used to do, recycle old story arcs, freshen them up, and let kids get their imaginations going again. Then they can GO OUTSIDE! and use their imaginations to grow.

Aotrs Commander
2009-06-25, 06:02 AM
(And most reviews I've read, even from people who liked it as kids, though the 90s X-Men cartoon was utter pants.)

That greatly surprised me as well, since to my knowledge the 1990s X-Men (and Spider-Man) were generally very well recieved. The former captured the tone of the comics infinitely better than X-Men Evolution. The biggest problem with 90's X-Men it was they had been noticibly disallowed from saying the word 'dead.' The few episodes of Wolverine and the X-Men I've seen so far have been pretty good too.


Transformers Animated was also pretty ace until its recent cancellation. Which was unfortunate, especially given the average review of the film that replaced it.

They cancelled that? Guh... The idiocy of that as they new movie comes out is just...staggering. Really, not caching in n the franchise? Wierd.



I agree we seem to have hit a bit of a dry spot for decent cartoon at the moment. Disney, after a brief but surprising venture into actually good cartoons (American Dragon and Kim Possible, which I was astonished to find were very watchable) have dropped back into dross, and Cartoon Network have simply ceased to show much of any note.

There are definately very few serious type cartoons at the moment, at least not in the vein of say, W.i.t.c.h, Avatar, Justice League (and DCAU period); Wolverine and the X Men is one; Brave and the Bold may be another, but I've only scene one episode so I cannot make a big judgement. Clone Wars, the CGI, however, is at least holding the bar up, seeing as that was fantastic.

Ben 10 is trying; I liked Ben 10 but found while Alien Force was quite watchable, it just lacked something (perhaps because the characters seemed to divergent from their younger counterparts for a consistency freak like me.)



Of the 80's stuff, I've been slowly picking them up on DVD as and where I can. MASK was a bit surprising actually, as it was much less fun that I remembered. The first more-or-less half of the show (I've got up to the first 38 episodes on DVD) after a fair start in the first five or six, was so unbeliveably formulaic it was untrue and even the battles became mainly about making the VENOM agents crash.

It was interesting, though, the level of forumalic-ness. I'm absolutely certain that the writers had a brief wherein it said Scott and T-Bob had to in perial at one point and contribute to saving the day and that Sly Rax had to be menaced by animals in every episode. Because, seriously, I'm really not exaggerating, that happened in without fail. The good episodes out of that bunch were when those elemtents were reduced to something minor, but they were still there. And the plot had holes you could drive every vehicle through. I know the very back end of the series was better (I've got some episodes from the last season on viedo) and it just started to pick up in the last couple of the 38.

By comparison, I recently picked up the entire series of the Centurions (http://www.sfxb.co.uk/animated/centurions.html) (off ebay), which was about my favourite (even including Transformers.) And now I remember why! It's basically an action movie (which considering the competition is a bit of an achievement!) For those of you who haven't encountered it before, it's near-future where the mad cyborg bad guy tries to take over the earth. He's just as stupid and incompetant as all the other villains (Miles Mayhem, Megatron, Shredder, Ming the Merciless of Defenders of the Earth etc etc) but what actually seperates Doc Terror from the pack is his plans are lethal on a global scale. For instance, in the first episode, he basically set the upper atmosphere on fire and was quite happily going to cook the world to a crisp and everyone on it so he could rebuild... Anyway, the good guys, the Centurions teleport all over the world to stop him and get beamed-down weapon systems which lock onto their exoframes which is frakkin' awesome!

Not only does the weapon-systems fusion sequence never get old, but the show actually very cleverly written. In one recent episode, they had a plot twist - that I actually didn't see coming! There was a guy with an evil beard, coming across as a complete git, and you just knew he was the evil bad guy working for Doc Terror. Except, where the traitor was revealed, it wasn't him, it was Random Red Shirt guy, and the pillock was apparently, just a pillock. I was not expecting that level of sophitication from the show. Other clever things like the guy's escape vehicle whipped off at Mach 10 (which I thought was a bit shocking) and when Ace McCloud chased him down, he used his Orbital Interceptor weapon system (which, as it's name suggests, is capable of space flight) for the extra speed. Little touches like that. (Not to say there aren;t some WTF moments plot-wise, my favourite so far being when the Centurions have been shrunk down to get into a computer - physically in the hardware, not digitally -Tron style for a novelty when suddenly one of nthem got pulled into water whith a giant robot squid of Doc Terror's. And I went, "wait, what, there's a pool inside the computer? Wha? But we didn't see that before... How...what...ah screw it, see the explosions!" (Still better than MASK's Mayhem building a ridiculously advanced machine when all he planned on doing with it was hoovering money out of the banks, something that would probably not even made him break eve with the cost of the machine itself...)

Also, Centurions is decidedly light on children and sidekicks. There is an orangutang (who mainly is there to acidently drop things on the beaming console to facilitate some of the plots!) and one of the Centurions has his dog Shadow. Who does not talk or anything (though I suspect both he and the oragutang have had their intelligence boosted). Normally, I don't like the 'pets' and dogs in particular but Shadow has his own freakin' missile launcher weapon system exoframe and has on at least one occasion used it to disarm the major flunky of the series. Now, that is awesome.

Also, instead of the tedious don't run with scissors nonsense that MASK and the like has at the end Centurions actually had something educational (sometimes about quite advanced topics like fusion or relativity!)

There has, sadly, not been the like of Centurions since.

Here's the intro sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQT00ZSVzcg)...tell me that's not awesome. (And yes, the show is actually not far behind that quality of animation (poor youtube resolution nothwithstanding), even at it's lowest point, either. It does shootly-vehicle action sequences superbly well, better than any of the other series of it's time.)

Totally Guy
2009-06-25, 06:30 AM
Being American you may not be familiar with the all-conquering Great British Win that was Cosgrove Hall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosgrove_Hall_Films#Series_.26_productions)

I don't remember the studio but I remember enjoying the Dreamstone and Bimble's bucket. Very british.

In The Dreamstone every week the Big Bad Zordrak would send his minions off to the good side of the world to steal the dreamstone so that nightmares could rule.

Bimble's bucket was about a guy with a wishing bucket and the baddies would try to get it every week. Not as good as the dreamstone but there was an amazing shift in the premise halfway through when the evil frog queen got trapped under the city and was at a major disadvantage forever after.

Kris Strife
2009-06-25, 07:23 AM
, but they were still there. And the plot had holes you could drive every vehicle through. I know the very back end of the series was better (I've got some episodes from the last season on viedo) and it just started to pick up in the last couple of the 38.

By comparison, I recently picked up the entire series of the Centurions (http://www.sfxb.co.uk/animated/centurions.html) (off ebay), which was about my favourite (even including Transformers.) And now I remember why! It's basically an action movie (which considering the competition is a bit of an achievement!) For those of you who haven't encountered it before, it's near-future where the mad cyborg bad guy tries to take over the earth. He's just as stupid and incompetant as all the other villains (Miles Mayhem, Megatron, Shredder, Ming the Merciless of Defenders of the Earth etc etc) but what actually seperates Doc Terror from the pack is his plans are lethal on a global scale. For instance, in the first episode, he basically set the upper atmosphere on fire and was quite happily going to cook the world to a crisp and everyone on it so he could rebuild... Anyway, the good guys, the Centurions teleport all over the world to stop him and get beamed-down weapon systems which lock onto their exoframes which is frakkin' awesome!

Not only does the weapon-systems fusion sequence never get old, but the show actually very cleverly written. In one recent episode, they had a plot twist - that I actually didn't see coming! There was a guy with an evil beard, coming across as a complete git, and you just knew he was the evil bad guy working for Doc Terror. Except, where the traitor was revealed, it wasn't him, it was Random Red Shirt guy, and the pillock was apparently, just a pillock. I was not expecting that level of sophitication from the show. Other clever things like the guy's escape vehicle whipped off at Mach 10 (which I thought was a bit shocking) and when Ace McCloud chased him down, he used his Orbital Interceptor weapon system (which, as it's name suggests, is capable of space flight) for the extra speed. Little touches like that. (Not to say there aren;t some WTF moments plot-wise, my favourite so far being when the Centurions have been shrunk down to get into a computer - physically in the hardware, not digitally -Tron style for a novelty when suddenly one of nthem got pulled into water whith a giant robot squid of Doc Terror's. And I went, "wait, what, there's a pool inside the computer? Wha? But we didn't see that before... How...what...ah screw it, see the explosions!" (Still better than MASK's Mayhem building a ridiculously advanced machine when all he planned on doing with it was hoovering money out of the banks, something that would probably not even made him break eve with the cost of the machine itself...)

Also, Centurions is decidedly light on children and sidekicks. There is an orangutang (who mainly is there to acidently drop things on the beaming console to facilitate some of the plots!) and one of the Centurions has his dog Shadow. Who does not talk or anything (though I suspect both he and the oragutang have had their intelligence boosted). Normally, I don't like the 'pets' and dogs in particular but Shadow has his own freakin' missile launcher weapon system exoframe and has on at least one occasion used it to disarm the major flunky of the series. Now, that is awesome.

Also, instead of the tedious don't run with scissors nonsense that MASK and the like has at the end Centurions actually had something educational (sometimes about quite advanced topics like fusion or relativity!)

There has, sadly, not been the like of Centurions since.

Here's the intro sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQT00ZSVzcg)...tell me that's not awesome. (And yes, the show is actually not far behind that quality of animation (poor youtube resolution nothwithstanding), even at it's lowest point, either. It does shootly-vehicle action sequences superbly well, better than any of the other series of it's time.)

I remember this show! "Man and Machine! Power Extreme!" Good times, good times...

Also, Freakazoid and Sonic SatAM are out on DVD now, and SWAT Kats runs on Boomerang right when I wake up before work, so I'm actually reasonably satisfied.

I admit the fact that the whole 'girl power' phase is starting to die down. Remember, back when any group that had a female in the cast, that had the same (or less) training/powers than the male characters, she/they'd always be better than the male characters at pretty much everything? (including, more than once, upper body strength...)

Shows where the significant title/main character(s) is/are female and the males are supporting characters are not included in this list. Those bring up the complaint of men being shown as idiots on most television shows.

Haarkla
2009-06-25, 07:42 AM
I feel you...I miss my Rocko's Modern Life and Ren & Stimpy. :smallfrown:

LOL. You make me feel so old. I remember being a (somewhat conservative) adolescent in the early 90's and thinking Ren & Stimpy was the ultimate in modern animated crudity and degeneracy.

I dont watch many cartoons these days, but amongst recent cartoons I like W.I.T.C.H.

Primal Fury
2009-06-25, 07:52 AM
AGH! I can't possibly so old that I'm forgetting about all the shows I used to love! Angry Beavers was one of those "watch with mom" shows for me. :smallbiggrin: Hell, nowadays we sometimes argue over whether or not Spongebob is more refined than Teenage Mutant Nija Turtles, which it is not. I especially love those TMNT: Lost Episodes. It had that anime type action that I prefer to see in western cartoons.

MCerberus
2009-06-25, 10:28 AM
Also, Freakazoid and Sonic SatAM are out on DVD now, and SWAT Kats runs on Boomerang right when I wake up before work, so I'm actually reasonably satisfied.


My friend bought the Sonic dvd set thinking it was the weekday afternoon one for nostalgia. I'm pretty sure the opening credits where the "freedom fighters" blow up an electric dam hit his inner child like a sledgehammer.

To defend Flapjack: it's absurdist humor pretty much straight. If you watch it just expecting it to be traditionally funny, you'll be disappointed. The humor is in the completely unexpected and in warped versions of standard jokes and plotlines. Not so much "Boy and sea captain go on adventures," as "Psychopath and alcoholic face Lovecraftian horror on a stunningly frequent basis."



Oh, and I know this was around forever but I still love to watch it: Two Stupid Dogs.

Shademan
2009-06-25, 10:47 AM
hm... the centurions seem very... manly. is it just me or are heroes now days....well...kinda sissy-looking?

OracleofWuffing
2009-06-25, 10:58 AM
The thing is, back in the 90s (and 80s, but I didn't see a whole lot of those), guns and drugs were shown in cartoons. They were always seen as bad (except in the case of Roger Ramjet and Steroids Proton Pills), but parents kind of ignored that.
Actually, Underdog had a superpower pill that he used in a few episodes, too. And there's always a case that can be made for Popeye.


Violence could often be solved with MOAR VIOLENCE. And all the heroes solved their problems with FIGHTING. Since that's not allowed anymore, that's why there are no good cartoons left.
Woah, woah, woah. There was plenty of the PC-ness you're talking about going on back in the 80's and early 90's. I don't know about He-Man, but I'm pretty certain nobody died in the original Transformers series until the first movie came out. And the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? You mean where the foot clan was made entirely out of robots, the leader of the gang had dual katanas but never sliced anything unless it was a machine, the cool but rude guy having implements of pointy death but only using them to disarm his enemies, and the party dude having his nunchukusases censored out by entire countries? Oh, and let's not forget how The Shredder never actually shredded anybody. Heck, I don't even think he shredded anything, either. For that matter, let's talk about guns. All guns are lazer guns, and they will do one of the following:

Miss their target completely.
Be permanently on "Stun" setting.
Are a hilarious plot device (shrink ray, mind swap ray, etc.) that can do anything but kill!

Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome show, I've got the DVDs right here. But it's also a victim of the PC-ness you hate. And there were perfectly fine nonviolent cartoons, too- if you disagree with me, I'll have you know that my Garfield and Friends collection makes a far better bludgeoning device than the TMNT collection.

Plus, don't forget, when you tell TV Execs that you want more fighting and action shows, you get Dragonball GT.


Did it occur to you that, you know, maybe I loved the turtles for that old cartoon persona and not the comics?

... Oh man, I am pretty sure there are about 400 turtle fanatics preparing to kill me in my sleep now.
Pffft. :smallamused: You call that a death wish?

The Super Mario Brothers are from Brooklyn, New York, USA, the real world.1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Mario_Bros._Super_Show!) They occasionally fight the Koopalings, who are named Hip, Hop, Bully, Cheatsy, Bigmouth, Kootie Pie, and Kookie Von Koopa.2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Super_Mario_Bros._3) Mega Man is green, King Hippo is blue, Simon Belmont is a self-absorbed wuss,3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_N:_The_Game_Master) and Yoshi hates water.4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_World_(TV_series)) Nothing in Hyrule dies, it just goes back to Ganon's evil jar where it is released so it can terrorize Hyrule again.5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda_(TV_series)) Sonic is a Freedom Fighter on the planet Mobius6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(TV_series)) who occasionally plays in a rock band with his brother and sister, Manic and Sonia.7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Underground) Knuckles is a mole,8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog:_The_Movie) And there are exactly four chaos emeralds.9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Sonic_the_Hedgehog)

I think we all know what the last one is going to be. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_and_Dragons_(TV_series))

THAT is how you get people out to kill you for watching cartoons.

...

Wait. :eek:

While I'm at it, though... My Cable provider gave up on Toon Disney as a basic channel a long time ago, and there was a show called "Super Robot Monkey Team Hyperforce Go". I know it sounds super-campy, and for the first season or so, yeah, it is horrendously campy, but somewhere in between the second and third seasons it got dead serious and creepy in an awesome way.

Oh, and someone please tell me I'm not the only person to remember watching SuperDave: Daredevil for Hire. I swear it existed.

tribble
2009-06-25, 11:32 AM
To defend Flapjack: it's absurdist humor pretty much straight. If you watch it just expecting it to be traditionally funny, you'll be disappointed. The humor is in the completely unexpected and in warped versions of standard jokes and plotlines. Not so much "Boy and sea captain go on adventures," as "Psychopath and alcoholic face Lovecraftian horror on a stunningly frequent basis."



it's odd, this is considered a children's show these days. meanwhile, moral guardians are advising parents to stop a movie in the middle of a great song to explain how the worldview of the character who is dropped off the highest tower is wrong.

On the subject of flapjack, the show might be tolerable if it wasn't for the horrible horrible artwork. I feel queasy just looking at the main character.

hmm... I wonder if we have a flapjack dance mix yet.

Serpentine
2009-06-25, 11:44 AM
It's not all bad... Avatar and Fairly Odd Parents are great. And how many of you have gone back and re-watched these beloved old cartoons? Some of them are... not so good now (Exhibit A: Gumby is frickin' weird :smalleek:). Also, a good number of these old ones are still being made, or at least replayed.
What bugs me is that they seem to be getting shunted out by cheap, crappy, ugly live-action shows. Some of them are okay, but most of them look awful. The Secret Life of Alex Mac and a few others were good, but looking at the new ones you get the impression that the budgets for these shows have been slashed... And they're everywhere. And most of them don't have a compelling enough story to last more than a series, so they neither get watched nor hang around for long, and just seem to take up time in which one could have been enjoying Rocko's Modern Life or Angry Beavers.

Haruki-kun
2009-06-25, 11:55 AM
What happened to cartoons?

Well, here's what I think about this, which is something I've said several times...

While we do have to consider that now we're much older and simply don't find cartoons as appealing anymore, what I notice about cartoons these days is this: They're not even trying anymore.

I fail to see Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network even making an effort to make a decent TV show these days. It feels like every idea that is pitched goes something like this: "OK, how's this? It's a cartoon about a town... and the characters are really stupid. Also, let's not give it a lot of money. Kids don't need to see decent animation, they don't care."

And that latter part right there, "Kids don't care", is another huge part of the problem. IT STILL SELLS! They've realized that kids watch it anyway, so why bother to do it right? It's not like the hoardes of concerned parents are new, anyway.

------------------------

SpongeBob was really good. Was. These latest episodes have been getting crappier and crappier. I can say the same for the Fairly Oddparents.

PS: Reboot. Holy crap, Reboot. :smallbiggrin:

Haven
2009-06-25, 12:00 PM
Woah, woah, woah. There was plenty of the PC-ness you're talking about going on back in the 80's and early 90's. I don't know about He-Man, but I'm pretty certain nobody died in the original Transformers series until the first movie came out. And the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? You mean where the foot clan was made entirely out of robots, the leader of the gang had dual katanas but never sliced anything unless it was a machine, the cool but rude guy having implements of pointy death but only using them to disarm his enemies, and the party dude having his nunchukusases censored out by entire countries? Oh, and let's not forget how The Shredder never actually shredded anybody. Heck, I don't even think he shredded anything, either. For that matter, let's talk about guns. All guns are lazer guns, and they will do one of the following:

Miss their target completely.
Be permanently on "Stun" setting.
Are a hilarious plot device (shrink ray, mind swap ray, etc.) that can do anything but kill!

Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome show, I've got the DVDs right here. But it's also a victim of the PC-ness you hate. And there were perfectly fine nonviolent cartoons, too- if you disagree with me, I'll have you know that my Garfield and Friends collection makes a far better bludgeoning device than the TMNT collection.

Yeah, all of this. I think it's actually gotten a bit better. I mean, most of this is still true, but at least people can punch each other now (unlike the 90s Spider-Man, where all he could do was slam into the bad guys or employ "Deadly Dodging").

Serpentine
2009-06-25, 12:03 PM
Nunchucks were censored? Why? :smallconfused:

Shademan
2009-06-25, 12:04 PM
Nunchucks were censored? Why? :smallconfused:

'Cus they look like penises. on chains.
well thats what the kids were THINKING with the blur over them...

Serpentine
2009-06-25, 12:06 PM
:confused:
edit: After making liberal employ of teh interwubs, I think it was more because nunchaku were (and are) illegal/restricted in a lot of places.

D_Lord
2009-06-25, 12:15 PM
I miss lots of these and Ed, Edd nd Eddy. They say that they are going to have one more senons and movie but nothing new has come out. But most of the latest ones I don't like as much. The holladay ones are ok but get rid of the rest of the school ones. Let them try to scam kids in the summor forever.

Fan
2009-06-25, 12:19 PM
This is just nostalgia. We have enough good cartoons today. We had more in the past - but that's because past is much BIGGER than present, so they had more time to create good cartoons. And the past had a lot of crap too, we simply don't remember it.

Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Chowder, Avatar the Last Airbender, Samurai Jack (not a recent production, but still modern). All of them kick ass - and that's just cartoons off the top of my head.
And Total Drama Island isn't bad either.

Ah, there is where my nostalgia kicks in, all of those shows were and are decent. However NONE of them are on anymore, and have no been replaced with "Chaotix", and other crap. Chowder is really on it's last legs now, and well. FRIED DYNAMITE CAN DIE.

nothingclever
2009-06-25, 12:25 PM
This is what you all really want to see on TV again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUvO-qHROPE

raitalin
2009-06-25, 12:26 PM
I think everyone needs to be reminded just how terrible some of the stuff we watched as kids was. Between cut-rate "Hanna-Barbera school" animation, cookie cutter plots and an attitude that thought kids couldn't intellectually handle anything more complex than "bad guys are bad, m'kay?"

'70s cartoons were almost completely terrible. Damn you Hanna Barbera.

Granted, I'm referring largely to '80s stuff here. Thundercats/Bravestarr/Silverhawks was the *exact* same plot with the setting changed. He-man's plots were some of the most mind-numbing things on television. Only the first 2 seasons of G.I. Joe were any good. Does anyone even remember Go-bots? Mask? I'm sure there's also *gangs* of stuff we've forgotten about becaue it was awful. The only '80s toons I find that stand up to viewings today are Transformers, the aforementioned first 2 seasons of GI Joe EDIT: The Real Ghostbusters /EDIT and DuckTales.

The '90s were much better: Batman:TAS, all of Spielberg's toons (Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, P & tB), Disney's entry into the half-hour market with Talespin, Darkwing Duck, Gooftroop, et al, the advent of Nicktoons (except terrible, terrible Doug). Those of us watching cartoons in the '90s were *incredibly* lucky.

I think the part of the problem with CN now is the difficulty in connecting with its target audience. I know I personally have only really like 1-2 shows running on CN at any given time since its inception (Dexter's Lab, Powerpuff Girls, Foster's) but I still think the worst things they churn out is better than 90% of stuff from the 70s and 80s and will probably reamin with its audience as much as the cartoons we watched will with us.


Now for what I think is the real tragedy With so many cartoons to choose from, and new ones being written all the time, what has happened to Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry? These were my absolute favorite comedic cartoons when I was a child, and one of the few things I sought out the DVDs for and was totally pleased by. The glory days of CN for me were when they didn't have a huge catalog of their own and spent 3-4 hours a day on LT, TnJ, the Tex Avery Show and Toonheads.

Prime32
2009-06-25, 12:28 PM
Yeah, all of this. I think it's actually gotten a bit better. I mean, most of this is still true, but at least people can punch each other now (unlike the 90s Spider-Man, where all he could do was slam into the bad guys or employ "Deadly Dodging").I loved that series. Sure no-one had glass in their windows and all the guns shot lasers, but the spirit of Spider-man was captured very well.

Haruki-kun
2009-06-25, 12:28 PM
Batman:TAS

I read this as "Batman: The Abridged Series". :smallbiggrin:

nothingclever
2009-06-25, 12:32 PM
Another timeless classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fntbwNN2ck
Boy, the writing of current shows is soooo bad compared to this.

OracleofWuffing
2009-06-25, 12:34 PM
Nunchucks were censored? Why? :smallconfused:
The closest I've ever got to an explanation that makes sense is that nunchucks, not being pointy or sharp, could be procured by children without their parents' permission or observation. And the reason why Donatello gets his bo staff off scott free is that Ninjas were evidently evil, and a bo staff wasn't a ninja weapon. :smallconfused:
What you said.

Here's an example for you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08zlxEzuOIo). At 0:10, the logo is conveniently placed over Michelangelo's nunchuckasuswasas. When they do the weapons show down starting at 0:22, they completely skip Michelangelo. The "Fall in" at 0:27 skips showing Donatello and Michelangelo (They're both in the same frame for a section of the animation, and Michelangelo's helicopter-flailing his tools about). Granted, they didn't do a good job of it, as you still see them in glimpses. I'm trying to find a non-censored version for good comparison, but all I'm digging up are remixes at best.

TheThan
2009-06-25, 01:11 PM
The closest I've ever got to an explanation that makes sense is that nunchucks, not being pointy or sharp, could be procured by children without their parents' permission or observation. And the reason why Donatello gets his bo staff off scott free is that Ninjas were evidently evil, and a bo staff wasn't a ninja weapon. :smallconfused:
What you said.

Here's an example for you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08zlxEzuOIo). At 0:10, the logo is conveniently placed over Michelangelo's nunchuckasuswasas. When they do the weapons show down starting at 0:22, they completely skip Michelangelo. The "Fall in" at 0:27 skips showing Donatello and Michelangelo (They're both in the same frame for a section of the animation, and Michelangelo's helicopter-flailing his tools about). Granted, they didn't do a good job of it, as you still see them in glimpses. I'm trying to find a non-censored version for good comparison, but all I'm digging up are remixes at best.

http://www.retrojunk.com/tv/videos/12-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/12/#intro
found it for ya man

Tengu_temp
2009-06-25, 01:25 PM
Ah, there is where my nostalgia kicks in, all of those shows were and are decent. However NONE of them are on anymore, and have no been replaced with "Chaotix", and other crap. Chowder is really on it's last legs now, and well. FRIED DYNAMITE CAN DIE.

All of those are XXI century shows, however - they count as recent in comparison to eighties cartoons everyone seems to be talking about here. Too young to trigger nostalgia, unless you're still a kid - in which case gid off my lawn, I consider everything made after 1995 to be new.

Fan
2009-06-25, 01:28 PM
All of those are XXI century shows, however - they count as recent in comparison to eighties cartoons everyone seems to be talking about here. Too young to trigger nostalgia, unless you're still a kid - in which case gid off my lawn, I consider everything made after 1995 to be new.

Funny man, I watched those in my teens, I consider anything after about 4 or so years to be nostalgia worthy. If you can apply it to FF IX you can apply it to shows that only came out a year or so later (Although I admit Chowder is too new to apply nostalgia to... I barely watch the show, but Grim Adventures is one of my favorite shows to date... Did I mention it has a webcomic fan fiction called Grim Tales from Down below that totally kicks ass?)

Piedmon_Sama
2009-06-25, 01:36 PM
On the subject of flapjack, the show might be tolerable if it wasn't for the horrible horrible artwork. I feel queasy just looking at the main character.

You... feel queasy looking at the little guy? :smallconfused: He's like the only character on the show who's not hideous in some extravagant pre-modern-medicine way. Sure he's got teeth poking out, but he is eight.

I really like the artwork myself. It contrasts perfectly with Flapjack's attitude and expectations towards the world around him: he sees a wonderful world of adventure and friends; we see a disease-ridden hive of scummy seadogs and warped strangeness. It fits perfectly for what the show is going for.

shadowxknight
2009-06-25, 01:39 PM
Any of you guys remember the show Teen Titans on cartoon network?
Back 5-6 years ago I used to love that show, but for some reason they discontinued it :smallfrown:

I think Cartoon Network just have a bad habit of discontinuing old classic and spewing out new shows that get dumber and dumber each time. Bring back Dexter's Lab and Ed, Edd, and Eddie please.

Shademan
2009-06-25, 01:58 PM
Any of you guys remember the show Teen Titans on cartoon network?
Back 5-6 years ago I used to love that show, but for some reason they discontinued it :smallfrown:


yeah I saw it.
saw the porn version as well.
loved both.

but is it really that old?

Avilan the Grey
2009-06-25, 02:51 PM
Darkwing Duck.

That is all.

Oh yes.
I loved that one.

chiasaur11
2009-06-25, 03:41 PM
It's not all bad... Avatar and Fairly Odd Parents are great. And how many of you have gone back and re-watched these beloved old cartoons? Some of them are... not so good now (Exhibit A: Gumby is frickin' weird :smalleek:). Also, a good number of these old ones are still being made, or at least replayed.
What bugs me is that they seem to be getting shunted out by cheap, crappy, ugly live-action shows. Some of them are okay, but most of them look awful. The Secret Life of Alex Mac and a few others were good, but looking at the new ones you get the impression that the budgets for these shows have been slashed... And they're everywhere. And most of them don't have a compelling enough story to last more than a series, so they neither get watched nor hang around for long, and just seem to take up time in which one could have been enjoying Rocko's Modern Life or Angry Beavers.

Oh, the Angry Beavers.

That showed ruled. Remember the one with the Canadian with the giant mecha-dam?

bloodlover
2009-06-25, 03:49 PM
One of my fav. cartoons ever -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-aib0zqDY .

Mando Knight
2009-06-25, 03:55 PM
Ah, there is where my nostalgia kicks in, all of those shows were and are decent. However NONE of them are on anymore, and have no been replaced with "Chaotix", and other crap. Chowder is really on it's last legs now, and well. FRIED DYNAMITE CAN DIE.

Chaotix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotix) has a cool theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhSErF_N6Lc), a ninja chameleon, a hyper bee, and a crocodile leader.

Chaotic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic) is a cartoon show whose first season was made in Flash, and is distributed in the US by 4K!ds Entertainment.

Fan
2009-06-25, 04:02 PM
Chaotix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotix) has a cool theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhSErF_N6Lc), a ninja chameleon, a hyper bee, and a crocodile leader.

Chaotic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic) is a cartoon show whose first season was made in Flash, and is distributed in the US by 4K!ds Entertainment.

I apologize it's just I tend to associate the two due to BOTH of them being about Monster based trading cards, much like Yu Gi Oh, but without the cool abridged series.

Theolotus
2009-06-25, 05:09 PM
Oh, and someone please tell me I'm not the only person to remember watching SuperDave: Daredevil for Hire. I swear it existed.


Oh wow. I didn't think anyone else knew about Super Dave. Although I knew about Super Dave long before I'd heard of Evel Kenivel. So those over-protective parents really just confuse kids more than they help. (at least in my case)

TheThan
2009-06-25, 05:50 PM
Oh, and someone please tell me I'm not the only person to remember watching SuperDave: Daredevil for Hire. I swear it existed.


Seen it, it was ok, I don't recall it being on very long at all. So no, you're not alone.
:smallcool:

Decoy Lockbox
2009-06-25, 09:11 PM
Well? Whatever happened to the good ol' days when you could turn on the TV in the afternoon and you could see some over-the-top action, some wacky comedy, or some other third thing that I can't tink of right now?

What happened? You grew up.

I remember the good 'ol days with fondness too though. I remember getting up at 6am on saturdays when I was 5 years old, and lying on the coach under a blanket watching Scooby Doo.

I remember watching Renn and Stimpy with my dad as a little kid. True, it was a little disturbing, but we both had a fun time watching it.

I remember watching Rocko's Modern Life when I was in elementary school, and gaining an appreciation for absurdist humor.

I remember watching Hey Arnold in middle school, and enjoying the character's quirky personalities and the plotlines.

Are the modern shows crappy? I don't really know. I personally love Adult Swim, the only show they have ever had that I didn't like was Saul of the Molemen. I love Aqua Teen, Tim and Eric, Squidbillies, Mighty Boosh, Drinky Crow, Xavier....cartoon and live-action alike.

But it does strike me as really stupid for the Cartoon Network to put on live action shows (adult swim is fine though, since its a separate entity). Then again, MTV stopped showing music videos, and the VH1 went the route of the ****ty reality show sphere, and the list goes on.

TheSummoner
2009-06-26, 01:05 AM
I did not read through every post, however I greatly agree with the OP?

Anyone remember Pinky and the Brain? Now THAT was a good cartoon. It had enough wacky humor and slapstick that a kid could enjoy it, but was also quite witty. Damn you executive meddling! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_-KBvO8Ek)

"So Pinky and the Brain
Share a new domain,
It's what the network wants,
Why bother to complain?"

Indeed...

Nevrmore
2009-06-26, 11:38 AM
Flapjack- Honestly, whoever writes this should be put to trial for abuse of my inner child. It's like diet spongebob, with that horrible diet flavor. It isnt even like those good early spongebobs. It combines the idiocy of the new spongebob with bad animation (see: Disturbing zoom ins), a narcissistic super squidward character who is alcoholic (sort of), a compulsive gambler, and an even bigger idiot than flapjack.
I will hurt you.

I will hurt you so much.

RabbitHoleLost
2009-06-26, 11:42 AM
I will hurt you.

I will hurt you so much.

Ditto this. :smalltongue:
In my own opinion, it carries the same tone as those lovingly disturbing cartoons of the nineties, like Ren and Stimpy and Rocko's Modern Life.

Flapjack is the only thing I turn the TV on for, nowadays.

Serpentine
2009-06-26, 11:18 PM
I like Rocko's Modern Life (have the whole series now :smallamused: Fun fact: From the 2nd series onward, the theme is performed by the B52s), but I don't like Ren and Stimpy at all. I can get easily enough why someone wouldn't like a third series along those lines *shrug*

Mando Knight
2009-06-26, 11:28 PM
Anyone remember Pinky and the Brain? Now THAT was a good cartoon. It had enough wacky humor and slapstick that a kid could enjoy it, but was also quite witty. Damn you executive meddling! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_-KBvO8Ek)

What's important is...

To scheme the improbable scheme
To plan the unthinkable plan
To build when your arms are too tiny
To walk in the suit of a man.
This is my fate
To conquer the earth
To play with the big boys
Though I lack the girth
To reach for the stars
On a whim or a dare
I could climb to the top
If I only could reach the first stair.
And the world doesn't know what they'll miss
If a mouse doesn't follow his dream
To scrawl with his last bit of graphite
To scheme the improbable scheme!
Listen up, all you sniv'ling and cowardly mice!
You may live in your cage if you please
But not I, for I've learned not to take just a slice
When I'm destined to have the whole cheese.
It is I, Don Cerebro, the mouse of La Mancha
I'm blessed with a huge frontal lobe
For a mouse with my power, it won't take an hour
I plan to take over the globe.
I plan to take over the globe.
Thanks to my huge frontal lobe.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 12:15 AM
*Stuff they cancled I loved with a passion*

Codename: Kids next door- This show had EVERYTHING!. Insane characters, thoughful plot, creative recurring villains, incredibly off the wall animation, and the occasional movie character.I loved KND, but was it really "cancelled," or did the people making it just figure they had done enough and decided it was time to end the series? Either way it lasted 81 or so episodes, so it's not like it got cut short or anything.


Fosters home for Imaginary Friends- This show has a lovingly crafted and quirky animation which only highlights the amazing cast. Almost all of the plot is driven by cast interaction bringing a normal problem or situation to incredible hights, all while a devoted few witty and kind characters try to control it. A comedy of errors at every turn.I liked FHFIF until everyone got hit by the Flanderization ray.

One semi-recent show people seem to be overlooking is W.I.T.C.H. It's quite underrated, and I'd say it's about the same quality as Avatar. It's a shame it only got two seasons. Speaking of Avatar, W.I.T.CH. seems to fit the Avatar/Gargoyles season quality:
Season one: Good, but with some problems
Season two: Top-notch, spectacular; takes everything that made the previous season good and magnifies it, along with taking out the biggest problems of the previous season
Season three: Massive disappointment (hey, I'd call "no season at all" a massive disappointment)

UltraDude
2009-06-27, 12:46 AM
W.I.T.C.H. never grabbed me the way Avatar or Gargoyles did, despite my liking of magical girl genre. Dunno what it was, but I should go back so I can at least figure out why I didn't like it.

I also object to the third season of Avatar being any more than a mild disappointment, and after that second season it's not even really an insult.

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 12:54 AM
Meh, I've always seen Avatar as an attempt at watered down americanized anime for 10 year olds...

Yeah... Not a fan =P

averagejoe
2009-06-27, 12:57 AM
I read this as "Batman: The Abridged Series". :smallbiggrin:

Now someone needs to make Batman: TAS: TAS. For the novelty if nothing else.

It occurs to me that for both Gargoyles and Avatar they had two great seasons, but then the third season made me sad. Which was more disappointing for Avatar, because with Gargoyles there was an ending pre-third season, so you could just pretend season three never existed.

Not having owned a TV for a few years, I can't say a lot about cartoons today. However, I greatly enjoyed Foster's, which was still on around the time I stopped watching TV. It's like any other time, lots of bad some good. I mean, the nineties really was a great decade for cartoons, but there's still some fun, innovative stuff today. Well, maybe not TODAY today, but you know. The one thing is that I'd like to see, though, is another dark action series. Gargoyles, Batman, and Samurai Jack (arguably-there was a lot of style variance, but they implemented each style strongly enough that it stood up well) were great. Is there anything along those lines on right now that I'm not aware of?

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 01:01 AM
W.I.T.C.H. never grabbed me the way Avatar or Gargoyles did, despite my liking of magical girl genre. Dunno what it was, but I should go back so I can at least figure out why I didn't like it.Well like I said, the first season had its problems. The pacing is a bit weak, for one; that was probably what bugged me the most about the first season, the poor pacing. The second season was an amazing improvement; the pacing was greatly improved, there were a lot more twists I didn't see coming, and it just plain was all-around great. I'd rank it up with the very high quality second season of Avatar.


I also object to the third season of Avatar being any more than a mild disappointment, and after that second season it's not even really an insult.Before going into the finale, I would've considered it a mild disappointment, because while the first half was of poor quality, it improved dramatically in quality after Day of Black Sun. Unfortunately, then the finale rolled around and forced me to relegate the season to "massive disappointment."

Serpentine
2009-06-27, 01:05 AM
Meh, I've always seen Avatar as an attempt at watered down americanized anime for 10 year olds...

Yeah... Not a fan =PAnime is just the Japanese attempt at American animation anyway... If all you see when you watch Avatar are minor stylistic details, I feel sorry for you, because it's the story and the characters and so on that everyone loves.
Speaking of which, I just saw a "teaser trailer" for the live action movie. I think it could be okay, hey?

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 01:14 AM
When it first came out, I gave it a shot... watched the first 5 minutes or so, and gave up on it right after the "dirty socks" joke. It seemed... incredibly immature... Not in the lowbrow humor immature sence, but in the incredibly childish immature sence.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 01:22 AM
When it first came out, I gave it a shot... watched the first 5 minutes or so, and gave up on it right after the "dirty socks" joke. It seemed... incredibly immature... Not in the lowbrow humor immature sence, but in the incredibly childish immature sence.What show are we talking about here again? The previous posts refer to Avatar, but I don't recall any "dirty socks" joke from the first episode offhand. It's hard to figure out what you're talking about when you use "it" without defining what it's supposed to mean.

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 01:25 AM
Yes, I was referring to Avatar.

Hands_Of_Blue
2009-06-27, 01:27 AM
What show are we talking about here again? The previous posts refer to Avatar, but I don't recall any "dirty socks" joke from the first episode offhand. It's hard to figure out what you're talking about when you use "it" without defining what it's supposed to mean.
I think Katara mentioned Sokka's dirty socks during her rant when she cracked the iceberg in half.

I would check, but my Season One boxset is missing disc one, for some reason. Now I'm going to be annoyed until I find it.

Serpentine
2009-06-27, 01:30 AM
When it first came out, I gave it a shot... watched the first 5 minutes or so, and gave up on it right after the "dirty socks" joke. It seemed... incredibly immature... Not in the lowbrow humor immature sence, but in the incredibly childish immature sence.There, you see, that's a fair enough reason to not like it :smalltongue:

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 01:41 AM
Yeah... For a show trying to have a serious plot, I don't like wacky, childlike humor mixed in...

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 01:42 AM
There, you see, that's a fair enough reason to not like it :smalltongue:Watching it for five minutes and not even finishing the episode is a fair enough reason to not like it? Huh? Or was that sarcasm?

Serpentine
2009-06-27, 01:48 AM
"Didn't like the jokes and found it too immature" is a fair enough reason. I disagree (it's a children's show :smallconfused: I know kids' shows can be quite mature and complex, but give it some leeway!), and don't think he gave it nearly enough of a chance (it's a mature story that gradually develops over a number of episodes with silly nonsense in-between. You can - and he obviously did - get the latter in a few minutes, but the former you need to watch at least one episode), but that's better than his first reason ("it's like this other style, that I like, that came first").

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 01:48 AM
I watched enough to make a judgement on it. When I decided I didn't like what I saw, there was no reason to watch any more of it.

The fact that theres humor inside a serious plot wasn't the turn off. It was the style of humor that I didn't like. It was just... goofy...

The promos didn't help either...

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 01:51 AM
I watched enough to make a judgement on it.Five minutes (possibly less) of one episode is nowhere near enough to make any kind of real judgment on a show.

Serpentine
2009-06-27, 01:54 AM
I think that (it's been ages since I saw it, be nice) the girl's brother could get annoying. He never seemed to get any real depth, and just acted the buffoon the whole time. That bugged me somewhat. Of course, that sort of thing is one of my main annoyances with "true" anime*...



*No, I don't think all anime do it. But an awful lot do, and it can really scratch the shine right off an otherwise great film.

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 01:57 AM
Five minutes (possibly less) of one episode is nowhere near enough to make any kind of real judgment on a show.

Are you kidding? People make judgements over the tiniest details all the time. We instantly form opinions based on our first impressions. Atleast I gave it a shot and found a reason to dislike it before instantly dismissing it.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 01:59 AM
I think that (it's been ages since I saw it, be nice) the girl's brother could get annoying. He never seemed to get any real depth, and just acted the buffoon the whole time. That bugged me somewhat.[/SIZE]Sokka got more competent as the series went on. Just because at first he was mostly a buffoon doesn't mean he was like that the entire series.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 02:01 AM
Are you kidding? People make judgements over the tiniest details all the time. We instantly form opinions based on our first impressions. Atleast I gave it a shot and found a reason to dislike it before instantly dismissing it.You took the tiniest representation of one episode, then decided to judge the entire series based on that one representation. That's not even close to giving a series a shot.

I can't believe I even have to ARGUE that it's not fair to judge a series based on watching less than five minutes of it...

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 02:03 AM
Lifes not fair? I judged the series based on 100% of what had aired up to that point. Thats worth something.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 02:05 AM
Lifes not fair? I judged the series based on 100% of what had aired up to that point. Thats worth something.That's worth almost nothing.

Look, I'm not saying watching some of a show, deciding you don't like it, and stopping watching is bad. I've done that. What I find ludicrous is to then go around telling people you don't like the show when you haven't seen anywhere near enough to get anything close to an informed opinion of it.

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 02:09 AM
Hmm, so I have the right to my opinion, but not to say what it is? Its not like I'm telling you not to watch it.

Serpentine
2009-06-27, 02:17 AM
Um... Gotta disagree with you, Seth. He has every right to decide and say he doesn't like it. If he declared, with only those few minutes of watching, that it's a terrible (or similar word) show, then we'd have issues. What he did say that he thought it was "a watered down americanised version of anime", which I argued was not true, irrelevant and a very bad reason to not like something. He then gave another, better (if we might disagree with the manner in which he came to it) reason for not liking it. I'd prefer that he at least watch one whole episode before dismissing it, but if he finds it so contrary to his tastes, well, all that means is he doesn't watch it *shrug*

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 02:18 AM
Hmm, so I have the right to my opinion, but not to say what it is? Its not like I'm telling you not to watch it.You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying, though to be fair it is a bit hard to express. I'm not saying that watching a few minutes, not liking it, and then doing something else is bad or anything; after all, continuing to watch in the hopes it gets better isn't necessary something someone would want to do. What I'm saying is that it's absurd to somehow decide you know enough about the show based on that tiny bit of data in order to judge the whole thing.

Watching the first few minutes of an episode of a show, deciding you don't like it, and stopping watching isn't enough to judge the show by. It isn't enough to judge that EPISODE by. Again, this is so self-evident I can't believe I even have to argue this fact.

Drascin
2009-06-27, 03:36 AM
My problem with modern cartoons is mostly that there aren't anywhere near enough for kids around 7-8 years old. I have a little sister, and finding cartoons for her is getting really hard. I've had to track down episodes of Ducktales, Looney Tunes, Tom&Jerry, Animaniacs... for her in the net (and boy howdy, is it hard to find Ducktales in Spanish), because all they show on actual TV around these parts is either more for almost-teens or directly baby stuff like Caillou.

She likes magic and such... anyone who knows about it, how is WITCH for a little seven-year-old girl?

LurkerInPlayground
2009-06-27, 04:57 AM
I actually thought Avatar was unusually non-insulting to its intended audience. It didn't feel the need to explain "cultural differences" as anything other than self-evident. And it didn't feel like the plot needed dumbing down for it to be understandable. It does all this without taking itself too seriously.

It didn't need to slip in a bunch of sly adult jokes or relatively obscure cultural references to add a hidden dimension of appeal to an older audience. It is just genuinely entertaining. At any rate, I found it far less pretentious and hackneyed than I found Harry Potter to be.

Avatar is influenced by anime, but not so much so that it looks derivative or looks like it's trying too hard to be something its not. We can make cartoons with semi-serious stories and extended plots. I fail to see why that should remain the exclusive domain of the Japanese.

Serpentine
2009-06-27, 05:09 AM
Oh, that reminds me! That's something I miss, that Avatar has helped to fulfill: Extended fantasy (or similar) cartoons. The ones that come to mind are Twins of Destiny (I think it's called) and something I can't remember the name of, but it's about street rats in London, and the theme song has "What do they munch what do they munch? What. Do. They. Munch?" I have no doubt that there's more, though.

WitchSlayer
2009-06-27, 05:12 AM
I really enjoyed Avatar while it lasted, I was very entertained. However, the most recent cartoon I have fallen head over heels in love with Batman: The Brave and the Bold, it has so many comic book references and utterly awesome moments that I just fell in love.

Nevrmore
2009-06-27, 10:45 AM
Yeah... For a show trying to have a serious plot, I don't like wacky, childlike humor mixed in...
Shenanigans. It was the debut minutes of the first episode. They didn't even start the damn plot yet. No one knew what the story was about yet, or if it was going to be serious or not. I think you are BSing.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-27, 11:44 AM
I hate what they've done to TV. All of the cartoons are EXACTLY THE SAME! (though some anime is still good.) They piss me off to the extent of throwing **** at the TV

Piedmon_Sama
2009-06-27, 01:38 PM
I can't believe I even have to ARGUE that it's not fair to judge a series based on watching less than five minutes of it...

Dude, we don't have time to give every television show out there a "fair hearing." I ****ing hate Code Geass, and admittedly 40% of that is that other people like it so much, but 50% of it is totally the art. That awful, awful, art that resembles a 16 year old's doodle in her math book. Every character's sexless stick body with its pipe-limbs and those huge lantern bug-eyes... this is stylization taken in a direction that disgusts me. And I love the sense of design in One Piece, for comparison. I will never be able to give that cartoon a fair chance, because just looking at those drawings makes me shake my head in disgust.

Anyway, I like Avatar a lot. And I resisted watching it for a long time because I usually can't stand shows about kids. But the dude can make his own judgements about it, and he doesn't need to sit through it any longer than he wants to to decide. Sometimes (this is why I brought up Code Geass as an example) your first instinct tells you all you need to know.

LurkerInPlayground
2009-06-27, 01:47 PM
Oh, that reminds me! That's something I miss, that Avatar has helped to fulfill: Extended fantasy (or similar) cartoons. The ones that come to mind are Twins of Destiny (I think it's called) and something I can't remember the name of, but it's about street rats in London, and the theme song has "What do they munch what do they munch? What. Do. They. Munch?" I have no doubt that there's more, though.
Holy **** that looks badass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twins_of_destiny


Dude, we don't have time to give every television show out there a "fair hearing." I ****ing hate Code Geass, and admittedly 40% of that is that other people like it so much, but 50% of it is totally the art. That awful, awful, art that resembles a 16 year old's doodle in her math book. Every character's sexless stick body with its pipe-limbs and those huge lantern bug-eyes... this is stylization taken in a direction that disgusts me. And I love the sense of design in One Piece, for comparison. I will never be able to give that cartoon a fair chance, because just looking at those drawings makes me shake my head in disgust.
Yeah. You're not missing much. What was a decent premise quickly descends into nonsense of a soap opera caliber.

And yes, he can make his own mind up about it. But as pointed out, it's still not really giving the show a "fair chance." Most people I've met watch Code Geass as more of a guilty pleasure than anything else and that's still them giving it more of a chance than you did.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 02:05 PM
Dude, we don't have time to give every television show out there a "fair hearing." I ****ing hate Code Geass, and admittedly 40% of that is that other people like it so much, but 50% of it is totally the art. That awful, awful, art that resembles a 16 year old's doodle in her math book. Every character's sexless stick body with its pipe-limbs and those huge lantern bug-eyes... this is stylization taken in a direction that disgusts me. And I love the sense of design in One Piece, for comparison. I will never be able to give that cartoon a fair chance, because just looking at those drawings makes me shake my head in disgust.The thing is, watching a few minutes of a cartoon usually is enough to let you know what you feel about the animation, as animation style is generally pretty static throughout a cartoon's run. I don't think there's anything wrong with Code Geass's animation, but whether or not you hate the animation is something you can actually probably determine by a few screenshots. There are some exceptions of course; judging Gurren Lagann's animation by only the animation of the fourth episode (which was drastically different than the rest of the series) is pretty silly, of course.

On the other hand, claiming you know enough about the plot or writing of a show to make any kind of even slightly decent determination on it when you've only watched a tiny part of the first episode (at which point the plot hadn't really started and the main character hadn't even been introduced), on the other hand, is absurd. It's like seeing one person smoking who seems healthy, then deciding based on that alone that clearly smoking has no health risks whatsoever. It's dumb to judge an entire show by one episode (even some of my favorite shows have some cringeworthy episodes), but judging an entire show by a fraction of an episode before anything even happened in it is ludicrous.


Yeah. You're not missing much. What was a decent premise quickly descends into nonsense of a soap opera caliber.I liked Code Geass myself. I thought the first season was pretty good, but unfortunately the second season had lots of problems due to executive meddling. It got switched to a different channel and time slot or something like that, so the writers were pretty much forced to "ease" new watchers into the series because lots wouldn't have seen the first season, so the writers had to adjust a lot of their plans. This resulted in the first half being a lot of meandering around, which made the second half rather rushed. (personally, I think they could've just started the season off with a clip show for the new people, then go into their originally planned story) I do think the final few episodes were quite good though. It would be nice if they would get a chance to "do over" the second season in the way they originally wanted to, though.

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 04:45 PM
On the other hand, claiming you know enough about the plot or writing of a show to make any kind of even slightly decent determination on it when you've only watched a tiny part of the first episode (at which point the plot hadn't really started and the main character hadn't even been introduced), on the other hand, is absurd. It's like seeing one person smoking who seems healthy, then deciding based on that alone that clearly smoking has no health risks whatsoever. It's dumb to judge an entire show by one episode (even some of my favorite shows have some cringeworthy episodes), but judging an entire show by a fraction of an episode before anything even happened in it is ludicrous.

When did I claim to know a thing about the plot or writing? I gave my impression of the show based on the bit I did sit through and what I saw through commercials for it... and it was just... goofy. Too goofy for my tastes.


Dude, we don't have time to give every television show out there a "fair hearing." I ****ing hate Code Geass, and admittedly 40% of that is that other people like it so much, but 50% of it is totally the art. That awful, awful, art that resembles a 16 year old's doodle in her math book. Every character's sexless stick body with its pipe-limbs and those huge lantern bug-eyes... this is stylization taken in a direction that disgusts me. And I love the sense of design in One Piece, for comparison. I will never be able to give that cartoon a fair chance, because just looking at those drawings makes me shake my head in disgust.

I would like to note that I thoroughly enjoyed Code Geass, but yes... the art style took quite a while for me to get used to...

Aotrs Commander
2009-06-27, 05:00 PM
My personal experience is such that I don't take trailers for shows at face value. I usually say myself I always give a show (cartoon or otherwise) at least one, possibly two episodes before I call judgement on it ('cos you can garentee I'll pick a lame duck for the first episode).

(Mind you, I do have the time to watch 'em (usually when I'm tidying the front room) and I consider myself a bit of a cartoon buff (as opposed to an anime buff).)

Case in point; Naruto. The trailers Jetix UK showed looked so, so lame. I dismissed the show without a second thought.

Until one day when I was ill and there was nothing else on and I watched it out of boredom (co-incidently picking a good point to start, since it was the start of the Forest of Death in the Chuunin exams) and then I watched it again the next day to see what would happen, and after that I was hooked. It's become one of my favourite shows.

I've actually done that one several occasions, watched a cartoon out of ill desparation and found myself warming to it: case examples being Pokemon, Winx Club (which aside from the truely cringe-worthy incantations actually had shockingly good fight sequences and an actually overarching plot) and, to a lesser degree South Park.

See also Foster's, which I thought sounded pretty awful but was actually really good.

On the other hand, some cartoons are so bad I couldn't even give them a fair chance, i.e. the stunningly awful *shudder* Da Boom Crew and (perhaps because it was a bit too wierd even for me) Bobobo Bo-bobobo (I think that's right but I could be wrong). I couldn't watch those for even a full five minutes. I think Da Boom Crew lasted, like, less than one*.

This doesn't mean that I always listen to my own advice, mind; the trailers that have been running for Captain Flapjack on Cartoon Network UK looked pretty insipid to me; however, having heard some people saying positive things about it, I might be inclined to actually give it a chance. (Not like there's anything at all on at the moment; most of the new batch of cartoons e.g. Kid verses Kat, Jimmy Two-Shoes are pretty dire and I have given them the requiste chance...)



*Mind you, that particular show was actually objectively bad from nearly unilaterally all accounts. So bad, in fact that apparently the US mercifully only got four shows (the network cancelled it after it had the worst ratings ever) while we in the UK were inflicted with the whole baker's dozen. I'm sort of surpised actually, that the time slot didn't just collapse in of itself under the sheer enormity of the sucknitude.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 05:02 PM
When did I claim to know a thing about the plot or writing? I gave my impression of the show based on the bit I did sit through and what I saw through commercials for it... and it was just... goofy. Too goofy for my tastes.As Nevrmore pointed out, the plot hadn't even started when you shut it off. For crying out loud, I don't think the main character had been introduced yet.

But, again, I'm amazed at the fact I even have to argue the fact that judging an entire series based on a scant few minutes of one episode is silly...


On the other hand, some cartoons are so bad I couldn't even give them a fair chance, i.e. the stunningly awful Da Boom Crew *shudder* and (perhaps because it was a bit too wierd even for me) Bobobo Bo-bobobo (I think that's right but I could be wrong).I loved BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBo, but it's really a love-it-or-hate-it show...you either like whacky humor and will most likely love the show, or you don't like whacky humor and thus will hate the show as it's almost entirely composed of whacky humor. I think it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen and is actually my favorite show, though I do think some of the earlier episodes were weak; episodes 4 through 8 I found especially uninteresting. Actually, I was losing interest with the show, but loved episodes 9 and 10 so much it won me back. Still, like I said, it's love it or hate it.

As for Da Boom Crew, is there *anyone* who liked Da Boom Crew? I don't think I've ever come across a single person who liked the show.

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 05:07 PM
If it can't capture my attention, why should I waste any more time on something that has already turned me off of it?

The entire point of advertisement is to make me WANT to do something, in this case, watch the show. The first episode needs to be good enough to make me want to come back for more. This is consistant for all shows, though if you don't start with the first episode, the first one you do see needs to pick up the slack (For the show's sake, lets hope the first someone sees isn't a filler episode). If both failed (atleast to me, I'm sure they worked for others), then I have no reason to waste further time on it.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 05:10 PM
If it can't capture my attention, why should I waste any more time on something that has already turned me off of it?

The entire point of advertisement is to make me WANT to do something, in this case, watch the show. The first episode needs to be good enough to make me want to come back for more.Except you didn't even see the first episode. You saw the tiniest part of it, and before anything actually happened, you stopped watching.

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 05:12 PM
Because it had turned me off by that point. It had already put a bad taste in my mouth, so why should I take another bite?

On the other side of the spectrum: Metalocalypse. The first episode was so ridiculously over the top, having people scalded to death by boiling coffee in the first two minutes. It caught my interest instantly with just how insane it was that I couldn't stop watching.

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 05:26 PM
Because it had turned me off by that point. It had already put a bad taste in my mouth, so why should I take another bite?Go ahead and don't watch it, then. I'm pointing out how imbecilic it is to try to appear as if you know anything about the show when you by your own admission have seen almost nothing of it. Watching just one episode isn't necessarily enough to judge a series as a whole by, and watching like three minutes is definitely not enough.

Your argument seems to be: One tiny bit of this show wasn't interesting. Therefore, the entire show isn't interesting.

That's absurd. Let's take Star Trek: Deep Space Nine for example. I think that's a pretty good show. I also think that "Profit and Lace" (an episode of it) is awful and cringe-inducing. But judging the entire series by just that one episode is dumb, and judging a series based on a tiny part of an episode is even dumber.

Not to mention that, y'know, a show's quality might change throughout its run, getting better or worse. To continue my Star Trek examples (why not), seasons one and two of The Next Generation were pretty weak, but to judge the later and much better seasons by that is idiotic.

Speaking of improvement, Avatar improved quite a bit in its second season. Heck, I didn't even get interested in it until then. Just because I think the first half of the third season had some of the worst episodes of the series ("The Beach" was pure awfulness) doesn't mean the second season wasn't great. Season one was when they were figuring out the show, season two was when they had it figured out, and season three was when they forgot everything that made the show good, then remembered it halfway through, then decided "screw this, let's not even bother" when writing the finale.

Aotrs Commander
2009-06-27, 05:30 PM
I loved BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBo, but it's really a love-it-or-hate-it show...you either like whacky humor and will most likely love the show, or you don't like whacky humor and thus will hate the show as it's almost entirely composed of whacky humor. I think it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen and is actually my favorite show, though I do think some of the earlier episodes were weak; episodes 4 through 8 I found especially uninteresting. Actually, I was losing interest with the show, but loved episodes 9 and 10 so much it won me back. Still, like I said, it's love it or hate it.

I'm aware it has a strong following, but, as you say, it was really not my cup of tea. I think I managed about as far as the end of the starting credits before saying to myself..."uh...No. I think I'll pass!"


As for Da Boom Crew, is there *anyone* who liked Da Boom Crew? I don't think I've ever come across a single person who liked the show.

Well, the only evidence I could find was just now when I looked on TV.com and found two people (and only five out nineteen of had rated it above a 1 (and one of those was a 2) and ten people were listed as being fans. So there are apparently at least ten people in the world who do. The mind boggles.

Hilariously:


[ TV.com]
Da Boom Crew ranks 19,296 out of the 18,215 shows on TV.com.

How it can manage to rank below a full thousand non-existant shows I cannot imagine, but am not entirely surprised...

(Actually, I think the ranking is a measure of the other statistics, given I've not found a show with a ranking of above about 250.)

By comparison, Captain Flapjack ranks at about 3000 (with an overall score of 7.8) and Naruto ranks at 472 (with a score of 938), Avatar at 296 (9.1) and CSI (to do a comparison to something popular an non-animated) at 338 (and 9.1). (That's a bit surprising, I'd have thought CSI would have been much higher, there you go.)

Also of some interest, browsing the same site, Naruto and Avatar come in at 7 and 8 on their list of most popular UK shows of all time, sandwiched between Heroes and House. Not a bad showing, even for an internet site list, that.

Piedmon_Sama
2009-06-27, 05:54 PM
Yeah. You're not missing much. What was a decent premise quickly descends into nonsense of a soap opera caliber.

Wasn't the premise something like "Britons and Celts not only defeat Iulius Caesar but overrun the entire Roman Empire?" I remember reading something like that on Wikipedia and being all "....with what, their chariots?"

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 06:08 PM
I'm probably wrong, but I r ead somewhere that the leadup to what the world is like is a result of Ben Franklin betraying America during the revolution leading to America losing the war. Then, Napoleon conquers Europe, causing the English to flee to the American colonies, which become Brittania.

The show never goes into any of that though...

Lord Seth
2009-06-27, 06:23 PM
Code Geass actually has a pretty interesting backstory to it where Britain wins the Revolutionary War but Napoleon takes over Britain, causing North America to become the capital of the British empire. The problem is the series doesn't really explain this much, as all the details are fragmented and scattered around the episodes. That's why a lot of people aren't aware of the fact that Britannia ironically doesn't include what we nowadays think of as Britain.

Does the series even show a map of territories before the second season? I know they showed some in the second season, which really helped clear things up. I googled searched for a map and here's what I found:
http://cdimg1.crunchyroll.com/i/spire3/04082008/6/2/b/d/62bda870c00500_full.jpg
Is it just me, or does this look rather close to the setup of the world in 1984? (the book, not the year)

TheSummoner
2009-06-27, 06:26 PM
Maybe Code Geass took some cues from George Orwell?

Lord of Syntax
2009-06-28, 02:27 AM
I <3 BoBoBo-Bo BoBoBo :smallfurious::smallmad:

Anteros
2009-06-28, 03:32 AM
Plus, don't you just hate it when those darn whippersnapper kids keep playing on your lawn?!

Things change over time...and as much as I hate to break it to you (Ok, I don't really hate it.) Your old school cartoons were not the masterpieces your nostalgia has made them out to be.

Justyn
2009-06-28, 03:47 AM
Plus, don't you just hate it when those darn whippersnapper kids keep playing on your lawn?!

Things change over time...and as much as I hate to break it to you (Ok, I don't really hate it.) Your old school cartoons were not the masterpieces your nostalgia has made them out to be.

Well, it's not that all older cartoons were great, just that we only remember the great ones... Plus, there really aren't that many good shows on at the moment; plenty of okay and mediocre ones though... of course, that's always been more or less true.

Piedmon_Sama
2009-06-28, 11:31 AM
Code Geass actually has a pretty interesting backstory to it where Britain wins the Revolutionary War but Napoleon takes over Britain, causing North America to become the capital of the British empire. The problem is the series doesn't really explain this much, as all the details are fragmented and scattered around the episodes. That's why a lot of people aren't aware of the fact that Britannia ironically doesn't include what we nowadays think of as Britain.

Well, I gotta admit that's not a bad premise--much better than what I heard about Britons beating the Roman Empire. :p A futuristic world ruled by a British Empire Gone Horribly Wrong could be cool, but unfortunately the series immediately drops the ball.

Mando Knight
2009-06-28, 11:53 AM
Well, I gotta admit that's not a bad premise--much better than what I heard about Britons beating the Roman Empire. :p A futuristic world ruled by a British Empire Gone Horribly Wrong could be cool, but unfortunately the series immediately drops the ball.

But... but... its Emperors are legally obligated to become pure ham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam)!

And it's got Humongous Mecha (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumongousMecha) and the protagonist has two fanservice-incarnate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MsFanservice) harem members (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem)! And Spinzaku Kururugi (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem)!

ALL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5brR14OGWUU)HAI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdGXVeSSdb8)L (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOP0ykpYjA4)BRITANNIA! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRIAw6LkqlE)

Aotrs Commander
2009-06-28, 12:04 PM
Plus, don't you just hate it when those darn whippersnapper kids keep playing on your lawn?!

Things change over time...and as much as I hate to break it to you (Ok, I don't really hate it.) Your old school cartoons were not the masterpieces your nostalgia has made them out to be.

I dunno, my own empirical evidence (on the basis I have most of my old-school cartoons on DVD or video) is that while some of them weren't as good (e,g MASK), some were even better than I remember (e.g. Centurions).

Though granted, that one episode of the Real Ghostbusters didn't scare the crap outta me like it did twenty years ago...

Elder Wraith
2009-06-28, 12:09 PM
The original series of Yu-gi-oh was actually rather good and dark...until 4kids ruined it. It was actually aimed at 14-25 as the age demographic, but 4kids thought it was a kids show, and subsequently caused hundreds of young kids to invade my precious TCG hobby.

Damn them to hell.

Green Bean
2009-06-28, 12:39 PM
The original series of Yu-gi-oh was actually rather good and dark...until 4kids ruined it. It was actually aimed at 14-25 as the age demographic, but 4kids thought it was a kids show, and subsequently caused hundreds of young kids to invade my precious TCG hobby.

Damn them to hell.

The original series of Yu-Gi-Oh actually wasn't about card games. It was actually about the main character using the power of shadow games to solve his friends' problems, but a bunch of execs thought the card game was more popular, and subsequently caused hundreds of TCG hobbyists to invade my precious cartoon show. :smalltongue:

UltraDude
2009-06-28, 01:37 PM
But... but... its Emperors are legally obligated to become pure ham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam)!

And it's got Humongous Mecha (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumongousMecha) and the protagonist has two fanservice-incarnate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MsFanservice) harem members (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem)! And Spinzaku Kururugi (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem)!

ALL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5brR14OGWUU)HAI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdGXVeSSdb8)L (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOP0ykpYjA4)BRITANNIA! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRIAw6LkqlE)

My God. Even when that show was a ridiculous train wreck it was still glorious.

I'd love to see some kind of new Centurions, but only if they oriented it towards the jr. high to high school crowd and got some great writers and directors.

Deastorm
2009-06-28, 03:23 PM
There was a change in style, around... '95? When it was ok to churn out a few dozen drawings in an afternoon, add in as much blatant stupidity as you could muster, and call it a cartoon. Sorry Ren and Stimpy fans, this was an offender. It has gone downhill since. Cartoon network was the biggest advocate of this style of... no style, but they made up for it with Adult Swim.

I guess some of the Naruto or DBZ stuff doesn't meet that prerequisite, but I've never given them a chance, too over the top for me, not interested.

Hmm, I didn't realize how much of a curmudgeon I was, and I'm only 28... So, if it's not Ghostbusters, it's crap? Not to include that Slimer garbage they added in near the end, that stuff was cringe-worthy.

All thoughts past this (from me) are non ordered, and more something of a break-time at work discussion, I suspect.

Piedmon_Sama
2009-06-28, 03:29 PM
But... but... its Emperors are legally obligated to become pure ham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam)!

And it's got Humongous Mecha (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumongousMecha) and the protagonist has two fanservice-incarnate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MsFanservice) harem members (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem)! And Spinzaku Kururugi (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem)!

ALL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5brR14OGWUU)HAI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdGXVeSSdb8)L (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOP0ykpYjA4)BRITANNIA! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRIAw6LkqlE)

Sorry, there's so bad it's good and then there's just bad, and for me Code Geass falls squarely in the second category. Even by anime standards (and those standards are very low), pretty much every line of dialogue is either overrwrought or makes the speaker sound like a nimwit. :|3

Nevrmore
2009-06-28, 11:55 PM
The original series of Yu-gi-oh was actually rather good and dark...until 4kids ruined it. It was actually aimed at 14-25 as the age demographic, but 4kids thought it was a kids show, and subsequently caused hundreds of young kids to invade my precious TCG hobby.

Damn them to hell.
Oh shut up. Yu-Gi-Oh was a boring show with annoying characters before 4-kids had even heard of it.

TheSummoner
2009-06-29, 12:05 AM
Never cared enough about Yugioh to know if it was watchable before 4kids got their hands on it, but anyone who knows a thing about 4kids knows that they are the butcherers of animes...

Prime32
2009-06-29, 06:18 AM
Never cared enough about Yugioh to know if it was watchable before 4kids got their hands on it, but anyone who knows a thing about 4kids knows that they are the butcherers of animes...
Shaman King probably got out the lightest. The only weird thing they did was have one of the characters prefer to be called by a nickname.

I liked Yu-Gi-Oh for the sheer H (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NJC1I-n_6I&fmt=18)A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NZy5a7nzNc&fmt=18)M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXSP-4N1avk&fmt=18).

TheSummoner
2009-06-29, 07:58 AM
A moment for the fallen?

*montage of clips from anime that are unwatchable in English but were apparently good in Japanese.*

RMS Oceanic
2009-06-29, 08:57 AM
Steering this conversation back across the Pacific Ocean, did anyone here watch Moral Orel? I thought it was one of the more interesting pieces of animation to come at us in a while...

Nevrmore
2009-06-29, 09:38 AM
That was a pretty good show. At first I thought it was just a show making fun of uber-Christian towns, but it gets pretty deep into character examination, which I found impressive.

Lord Seth
2009-06-29, 10:46 AM
Shaman King probably got out the lightest. The only weird thing they did was have one of the characters prefer to be called by a nickname.

I liked Yu-Gi-Oh for the sheer H (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NJC1I-n_6I&fmt=18)A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NZy5a7nzNc&fmt=18)M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXSP-4N1avk&fmt=18).Hrm, Shaman King got the lightest? I thought it was Ultimate Muscle that got the least from 4Kids, but I don't really know much about what they did to Ultimate Muscle.

I like Yu-Gi-Oh because without it we wouldn't have Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series (http://www.youtube.com/user/CardGamesFTW).

TheSummoner
2009-06-29, 07:12 PM
Moral Orel was the greatest piece of dark humor to come from America in as long as I can remember.

Innis Cabal
2009-06-29, 07:15 PM
Steering this conversation back across the Pacific Ocean, did anyone here watch Moral Orel? I thought it was one of the more interesting pieces of animation to come at us in a while...

Its amazing, dark, powerful and awe inspiring in its subtle gesture to the American Midwest family

Kris Strife
2009-06-30, 06:16 AM
My friend bought the Sonic dvd set thinking it was the weekday afternoon one for nostalgia. I'm pretty sure the opening credits where the "freedom fighters" blow up an electric dam hit his inner child like a sledgehammer.

Sorry, missed this earlier.

{scrubbed}
The Freedom Fighters didn't want Robotnik to act differently, they wanted him gone, and considering that he was able to produce more Swat Bots in a day than the world wide collection of freedom fighters, a traditional war would be suicide. Sabotage, hit and fade attacks, disrupting supply lines and destroying military production sites are all allowed by the Geneva convention as long as they don't affect civilians, and as Robotropolis had no civilians, since the Roboticized citizens can and would use their super strength to attack the freedom fighters on sight (evidenced by Uncle Chuck, before he was returned to his origional personality, and Ruffski in episode 1) and they don't need food or water or anything and seem to run on an internal self-renewing power source, theres no reason not to attack power plants full of Swat Bots.

A little dark for a kid's show, yes, but that was one of the things that made the series good.

Lord Loss
2009-06-30, 11:18 AM
This is just nostalgia. We have enough good cartoons today. We had more in the past - but that's because past is much BIGGER than present, so they had more time to create good cartoons. And the past had a lot of crap too, we simply don't remember it.

Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Chowder, Avatar the Last Airbender, Samurai Jack (not a recent production, but still modern). All of them kick ass - and that's just cartoons off the top of my head.
And Total Drama Island isn't bad either.

Amen! And Fairly Oddparents! I Hearts Fairly Oddparents! Timmy is a... Don't get me started!

The Grim Adventures of Billy and mandy is my personal fave though.

raitalin
2009-06-30, 01:31 PM
I'd also like to voice my appreciation for Moral Orel. Wasn't a huge fan of it initially, but its last season was spectacular.

Trog
2009-06-30, 01:38 PM
In response to the OP: Most of the shows on TV are crap anyways. And it was that way even long ago. There are a lot of people who will wax poetic about some show they watched in their youth but for every show remembered there are a slew of them that are, happily, forgotten because they were crappy. I feel that most of the "good old days" feeling comes from only remembering what you want to remember about the past and forgetting the bad.

My solution to the TV dilemma, thus far, has been not to have cable. I have a TV for the kids' game consoles but I haven't had cable for a year, haven't watched a night of TV, even when I did have cable, for maybe three years now, and haven't had anything beyond 13-channel basic basic cable for 13 years. Largely my life has benefited from it.

*puts away soapbox* :smalltongue:

MCerberus
2009-06-30, 01:39 PM
Sorry, missed this earlier.

I understand the confusion what with the whole terrorist attacks (even though Nancy Pelosi says we can't call them that any more) thing, but they're actually engaged in traditional guerilla warfare.

This is more than a 'good guys/bad guys' differentiation detail, as the proper, UCMJ definition of Terrorism is The use of fear to force others to act as you wish them to. The Freedom Fighters didn't want Robotnik to act differently, they wanted him gone, and considering that he was able to produce more Swat Bots in a day than the world wide collection of freedom fighters, a traditional war would be suicide. Sabotage, hit and fade attacks, disrupting supply lines and destroying military production sites are all allowed by the Geneva convention as long as they don't affect civilians, and as Robotropolis had no civilians, since the Roboticized citizens can and would use their super strength to attack the freedom fighters on sight (evidenced by Uncle Chuck, before he was returned to his origional personality, and Ruffski in episode 1) and they don't need food or water or anything and seem to run on an internal self-renewing power source, theres no reason not to attack power plants full of Swat Bots.

A little dark for a kid's show, yes, but that was one of the things that made the series good.

It was still a pretty big shock, especially when it became really apparent that the robots still had souls in them. Plus, if you look at it through a paranoid lens, there are a lot of odd modern parallels.

Telonius
2009-06-30, 01:54 PM
Just remind yourself that it's Steve Urkel delivering Sonic's lines, and it becomes absurd enough to be okay. :smallbiggrin:

Kris Strife
2009-06-30, 02:42 PM
It was still a pretty big shock, especially when it became really apparent that the robots still had souls in them. Plus, if you look at it through a paranoid lens, there are a lot of odd modern parallels.

Not the Swat Bots, only the Robians, which if you watch the whole series, Sonic and Co. never actually harm or damage. Swat Bots are entirely mechanical beings with no more of a soul than an M16.

RMS Oceanic
2009-07-01, 05:23 PM
Read this post and despair (http://boards.adultswim.com/adultswim/board/message?board.id=3&thread.id=704645&jump=true).

The lowlights:


I've been talking to someone named "Brawler" who knows somebody recently fired from Comedy Development, which is a section of Cartoon Network that is currently in turmoil, as confirmed by the Animator's Guild. Right now, the majority of people at Comedy Development have been fired and production on all new comedic series other than Adventure Time has been halted. The fired guy has been spilling his guts out to Brawler, and Brawler let me in on some of the stuff being spilled.

Number One: Cartoon Network is changing its name this upcoming fall or early next year. No concrete date is set yet but this fall is the target. The format will contain far fewer animation than in its current incarnation. I do not have concrete info on the channel's new name.

Number Two: CN Real bombed spectacularly, particularly on Wednesdays. This is part of the reason for the name change, the hope is that without the "Cartoon Network" name kids will watch the live-action.

Number Three: The original series Chowder is facing cancellation, according to the source and the Animator's Guild. There is a very good chance that Flapjack will be cancelled, and The Secret Saturdays is also in big trouble.

Number Four: I know NOTHING about what's going on at Adult Swim. I'll try to figure stuff out ASAP.

That's all I know so far. I'm going to try to get more info out of Brawler and his source. Will update as soon as possible.

Jamin
2009-07-02, 07:01 PM
Yes because renaming the network always works:smallamused:

Primal Fury
2009-07-02, 07:35 PM
Moral Orel was the greatest piece of dark humor to come from America in as long as I can remember.

Moral Orel??? Yeah that's a good show. But there was this one episode that kept me up at night. That one where Orel died all those times, and saw what came after death... *shudder* Creeped me right the hell out.

RMS Oceanic
2009-07-03, 06:16 AM
Moral Orel??? Yeah that's a good show. But there was this one episode that kept me up at night. That one where Orel died all those times, and saw what came after death... *shudder* Creeped me right the hell out.

That episode saddened me, because whatever spiritual enlightenment Orel attained was spanked out of him by Clay.

Incidentally, despite the efforts of "Passing" and "Help", I still feel no sympathy for him. "Nature" was just too great a crossing of the Moral Event Horizon.

Also, the ending of the show was quite nice. I just wish Adult Swim didn't cut it to 13 episodes instead of 20.

Primal Fury
2009-07-03, 08:04 AM
Also, the ending of the show was quite nice. I just wish Adult Swim didn't cut it to 13 episodes instead of 20.

Yeah. That was pretty sweet. It's good to see that some people believe something good can come out of such chaos. But it was kinda hard to get passed the whole "You raped my son... with niceness!" thing. :smalltongue:

Lord Seth
2009-07-03, 12:43 PM
Read this post and despair (http://boards.adultswim.com/adultswim/board/message?board.id=3&thread.id=704645&jump=true).

The lowlights:

Uh, do they have a more definite source other than "this random person told me this"?

Jamin
2009-07-03, 12:55 PM
Don't try to bring your facts here we are whining about stuff

Lord of Rapture
2009-07-03, 08:41 PM
Megas XLR, anyone?

That is one of the only two mecha shows that I actually enjoyed.

Jayngfet
2009-07-03, 08:45 PM
Uh, do they have a more definite source other than "this random person told me this"?

I know the guy fairly well. He wouldn't lie about this and he trusts his contacts.

Green Bean
2009-07-04, 04:53 PM
I know the guy fairly well. He wouldn't lie about this and he trusts his contacts.

Yes, but can we trust you? :smalltongue:

Tensu
2009-07-04, 05:25 PM
I too am rather PO'd at cartoon network's introduction of non-cartoons. I don't really watch TV anymore because there isn't anything good on any channel these days, that, or the schedule changes are so erratic that it's impossible to catch them.

On the off chance that I do watch TV and one of them is on, I'm a big fan of flapjack, I like the whole disturbing aspect of it. like the grim adventures of billy and mandy, it's disturbing jokes are funny, but are made even funnier when you consider the fact that they're being shown to small children. my personal favorite is:

"so you see, flapjack, if you just keep wishing all of your dreams will come true!"
"even the scary ones?"
"ah-hahahahaha... YES!"

Chowder is also very disturbing at times, and often reminds me just how creepy small children can be. "you will be the first of our dark harvest!"

my favorite lines from chowder both come from mung, though:

"thank you for giving me the courage to foolishly face my perfectly rational fear"

and

"I don't need a certificate to be a chef!"
"right on!"
"but I do need a certificate to make a living as one!"

the thing I like most about them is they each have very unique art style... I think the reason I watch almost exclusively cartoons at my age is not just because they're funnier than most other shows: I also have a lot of respect for animation as an art. both shows have a lot of very unique imagery about them.

back to the matter at hand, I wonder if cartoon network realizes that adding more live action shows is only going to drive viewers away. people watch cartoon network to see cartoons, not not-cartoons. showing not-cartoons is ruining the man reason anybody watches the network. what's worse, a lot of their not-cartoons are just spoofs of other network's shows. If your current viewership isn't watching those other shows, they won't which your spoofs, and if they are watching those other shows, they'll see your spoofs for the low-budget knock-offs they're most likely going to be and not watch them anyway, or refuse to watch them out of some sense of corporate loyalty. I thought they learned their lesson from their previous forays into live action. I guess I was wrong.

I know the "success" of Tim and Eric "awesome" show is somehow behind this. someone needs to assassinate those two before they do any more damage.

I miss the grim adventures of billy and mandy. curse cartoon network and their maximum number of episodes rule. if they had any sense in them, they'd pick up underfist as a series and drop all the low budget live-action crap.

Cryssandra
2009-07-04, 05:33 PM
I too am rather PO'd at cartoon network's introduction of non-cartoons. I don't really watch TV anymore because there isn't anything good on any channel these days, that, or the schedule changes are so erratic that it's impossible to catch them.

On the off chance that I do watch TV and one of them is on, I'm a big fan of flapjack, I like the whole disturbing aspect of it. like the grim adventures of billy and mandy, it's disturbing jokes are funny, but are made even funnier when you consider the fact that they're being shown to small children. my personal favorite is:

"so you see, flapjack, if you just keep wishing all of your dreams will come true!"
"even the scary ones?"
"ah-hahahahaha... YES!"

Chowder is also very disturbing at times, and often reminds me just how creepy small children can be. "you will be the first of our dark harvest!"

my favorite lines from chowder both come from mung, though:

"thank you for giving me the courage to foolishly face my perfectly rational fear"

and

"I don't need a certificate to be a chef!"
"right on!"
"but I do need a certificate to make a living as one!"

the thing I like most about them is they each have very unique art style... I think the reason I watch almost exclusively cartoons at my age is not just because they're funnier than most other shows: I also have a lot of respect for animation as an art. both shows have a lot of very unique imagery about them.

back to the matter at hand, I wonder if cartoon network realizes that adding more live action shows is only going to drive viewers away. people watch cartoon network to see cartoons, not not-cartoons. showing not-cartoons is ruining the man reason anybody watches the network. what's worse, a lot of their not-cartoons are just spoofs of other network's shows. If your current viewership isn't watching those other shows, they won't which your spoofs, and if they are watching those other shows, they'll see your spoofs for the low-budget knock-offs they're most likely going to be and not watch them anyway, or refuse to watch them out of some sense of corporate loyalty. I thought they learned their lesson from their previous forays into live action. I guess I was wrong.

I know the "success" of Tim and Eric "awesome" show is somehow behind this. someone needs to assassinate those two before they do any more damage.

I miss the grim adventures of billy and mandy. curse cartoon network and their maximum number of episodes rule. if they had any sense in them, they'd pick up underfist as a series and drop all the low budget live-action crap.

Wow.... That was alot to write about cartoons....
But i like it....

Piedmon_Sama
2009-07-04, 05:39 PM
~~~

I have to disagree with you on Tim & Eric, they're brilliant.

Good call on the Flapjack quote though. :D

Jayngfet
2009-07-05, 05:10 AM
Yes, but can we trust you? :smalltongue:

Dude, I've been here for nearly two years, if I walked around spreading out lies I'd have been kicked long ago.

Kris Strife
2009-07-05, 05:53 AM
Tensu, I disagree with you on Flapjack, but the rest of your post I can get behind.


I know the "success" of Tim and Eric "awesome" show is somehow behind this. someone needs to assassinate those two before they do any more damage.

This is my favorite part and gets my 100% seal of approval as I've pondered doing the job myself.
I need $500,000 American, in small unmarked bills (half upfront of course), an air tight allibi and knowledge of where they are.

And yes, you're getting the 'I really hate these guys' discount. :p

Green Bean
2009-07-05, 11:39 AM
Dude, I've been here for nearly two years, if I walked around spreading out lies I'd have been kicked long ago.

So you admit that you don't walk? Clearly, you're some sort of deep cover slug-like alien, here to sew chaos and lies! :smalleek:

Seriously, though; I believe you. While I don't know much about the network, the decisions sound pretty lame.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-06, 02:31 PM
I don't remember ALL the shows I watched as a kid but here are a few. unless I make a comment I still consider it good compared to a lot of things on TV now.

shaman king (good until I read manga. manga better) digimon, kim possible, darkwing duck, ducktales, talespin, sonic the hedgehohg, teenage mutant ninja turtles, transformers, inspector gadget, tom and jerry, the pink panther, tuttenstein, danny phantom, fairly odd parents, G.I joe. (only episode I watched was with a guy named Kreeger or something. good episode in my opinion.) codename kids next door, the grim adventures of billy and mandy, fighting foodons, kirby (okay the last two weren't great but they weren't horrible) and that's not including the disney movies I'd watch.

there was also this one I watched on saturdays with these two kids in a group called "the monkoli knights" or something. anybody have any clue what that show was? I want to watch it again to see how good or horrible it truly was.

Lord Seth
2009-07-06, 02:43 PM
Megas XLR, anyone?

That is one of the only two mecha shows that I actually enjoyed.Heck yeah, that show was awesome. It totally deserved more than the two seasons it got.

I am looking forward to Adventure Time, though...

Kris Strife
2009-07-06, 05:40 PM
It was brought up earlier, but um... I'm watching Centurions as I type this. Episode titled 'The Warrior'

HamHam
2009-07-06, 05:49 PM
So wait...

They tried to do a non-cartoon segment on Cartoon Network, and it bombed, so clearly the lesson to be learned is to make more live actions stuff and change the name? O.o

MCerberus
2009-07-06, 05:56 PM
They tried to pull a Tim and Eric for prime time, except they forgot that T&E is, at its heart, a parody of bad programming. Every city has or had an unaffiliated station that plays some embarrassing stuff, and that's what the Adult Swim show is making fun of.

Without funny or an attempt at satire you just get a giant bowl of failure. Unrealated note: wow, deja vu.

Justyn
2009-07-06, 06:47 PM
there was also this one I watched on saturdays with these two kids in a group called "the monkoli knights" or something. anybody have any clue what that show was? I want to watch it again to see how good or horrible it truly was.

TV Tropes to the rescue! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MonColleKnights)


Heck yeah, that show was awesome. It totally deserved more than the two seasons it got.

At least they gave in a grand finale, that's more than some shows get. And it is better to have a show go out while the audience still wants more rather than milking the series to death.

Jayngfet
2009-07-06, 09:10 PM
Good news, fresh from thurop von orpmans mouth. CN WAS going to change their name, but recent evedence in the form of terrible ratings has caused them to decide to remain live action free and stay cartoon network.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-06, 09:52 PM
TV Tropes to the rescue! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MonColleKnights)


a cookie to the intraweb! must now go watch episode by episode until either A. brain melts or B. my cousins come over to play D&D and MTG. although I havea feeling I'll get bored and switch to inspector gadget, darkwing duck or ducktales.

Lord Seth
2009-07-07, 01:40 AM
At least they gave in a grand finale, that's more than some shows get.Megas XLR did not have a grand finale.



And it is better to have a show go out while the audience still wants more rather than milking the series to death.Yeah, but, I'm not sure getting a third season somehow counts as "milking" it.

RMS Oceanic
2009-07-07, 03:21 AM
Good news, fresh from thurop von orpmans mouth. CN WAS going to change their name, but recent evedence in the form of terrible ratings has caused them to decide to remain live action free and stay cartoon network.

As "OH HELL YES!"-worthy this news is, could you please provide a source for this information? Regretfully, I don't have Thurop's number on speed dial.

hanzo66
2009-07-08, 10:40 AM
Well, a few Modern Cartoons do have their good points. I had fun watching Flapjack, which did have a rather creepy charm to it with the purposely grotesque... Everything. Chowder was pretty fun and wacky without being too annoying (I found a certain fondness for the little fatty) and had a catchy theme.

Avatar I enjoyed for the most part. I mostly watched the second and third seasons.

Still, there were some shows I found myself not caring much for. Teen Titans was OK for me and Danny Phantom wasn't anything special (I'm not a big fan of Butch Hartman's work though I don't loathe it).

Megas XLR was wonderful as a parody of Hot-Blooded Super Robot shows. Coop was a wonderously disasterous pilot and a subversion of every other rule for Super Robot pilots (he wasn't a particularly hot-blooded Chaotic Good individual). Coop seemed like the kind of guy who if he replaced Shinji as the protagonist of Evangelion would have single-handedly caused Third Impact before even meeting Asuka and somehow fix it by power-bombing the Angels.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-08, 10:48 AM
There were a few good ones around recently, though most of them ended up getting pretty much yanked out from under me. I liked Mission Hill, Megas XLR, got a couple of good laughs out of Downtown too.

Unfortunately, it seems like my inner child finally kicked as I can't even watch the cartoons I grew up with and be entertained anymore. Not even Inspector Gadget...:smallfrown:


Good news, fresh from thurop von orpmans mouth. CN WAS going to change their name, but recent evedence in the form of terrible ratings has caused them to decide to remain live action free and stay cartoon network.

Sci-Fi...er, excuse me, SyFy, was not so lucky, however...

...'course, it's not like anyone watches it anyway.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 12:32 PM
wait. forgot about teen titans and possibly gargoyles and street sharks.

Zencao
2009-07-08, 12:53 PM
wait. forgot about teen titans and possibly gargoyles and street sharks.

Aren't those shows on boomerang now? Can we really count them as 'modern'? :P

Kris Strife
2009-07-08, 05:46 PM
Aren't those shows on boomerang now? Can we really count them as 'modern'? :P

Teen Titans is, Toon Disney had Gargoyles on before it switched over to Disney XD and Street Sharks has not been picked up by anything.

Jayngfet
2009-07-08, 05:48 PM
http://thurop.deviantart.com/

Right side, Mister Von Orpman to the rescue.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-13, 09:55 PM
Though I'm not even sure if the actual cartoons are any better. The League of Super Evil... It falls under the catagory I mentioned earlier: Stupid, yet somehow... still enjoyable, along with Chowder, and the Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack.

Okay, can someone please explain the appeal of Flapjack? I've seen some episodes because all my friends at college like it, but I don't see what's so entertaining. All the characters are too, well, too wuss themed. There aren't any badass moments. The only episode that comes close enjoyable in my opinion is the one where Flapjack finds a bird and tears off a bunch of body parts from the captain guy to attach them to the bird. That was pretty brutal and hardcore!!!:smallbiggrin:

RMS Oceanic
2009-07-14, 02:41 AM
The Badass Quotient is not a prerequisite for an enjoyable cartoon. I enjoy Flapjack because of its surreal Pythonesque humour.

Weeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssst...

hanzo66
2009-07-14, 07:34 AM
It's not a "Badassed" show, at least by action standards. It's appeal comes from how much of a freakshow the setting is. Stormalong Harbor is sorta Bikini Bottom if it was hit by a case of Bubonic Plague and Scurvy. The humor is naturally surreal and bizarre, something that appeals to most audiences.

pflare
2009-07-14, 08:19 AM
I must say that while I don't really have an opinion on todays Nickleodeon or Cartoon Network (I don't watch them) I too find myslef reminiscing about "The Good Ol' Days". I remeber such great shows as Hey Arnold, Rugrats, Pokemon, the Flinstones, the Jetsons, Scooby Doo (in all of its reditions), yu-gi-oh etc... There were plenty more and I didn't watch them all at the same point of my "youth" (I'm only 19 for God's sake) but I enjoyed them all. I must admit that I tried watching some of the new cartoons and I honestly couldn't follow them. I think that part of it is that I am older now but the other part is that they are the cartoons of another generation and as such I don't feel the same magic I felt when they were "my shows".

TheSummoner
2009-07-15, 08:02 AM
So I just woke up, and I turned on my TV... Its was on Cartoon Network because I was enjoying some Harvey Birdman before I went to sleep... About 3 seconds after I turn it on, there was an annoyingly long commercial about how they were going to be "more than just cartoons"...

My question is this... Who asked for that? Why would anyone want CARTOON Network to have anything other than cartoons? You don't see anyone asking Comedy Central to have shows that aren't comedy...

Avilan the Grey
2009-07-15, 08:45 AM
My question is this... Who asked for that? Why would anyone want CARTOON Network to have anything other than cartoons? You don't see anyone asking Comedy Central to have shows that aren't comedy...

Congratulations! Cartoon Network will do an MTV? "More than just music" :smalltongue:

Soon they will start "Cartoon Network 2. For cartoons. And then they will bring back "Old Coke" and... No wait...

MCerberus
2009-07-15, 08:53 AM
Congratulations! Cartoon Network will do an MTV? "More than just music" :smalltongue:

Soon they will start "Cartoon Network 2. For cartoons. And then they will bring back "Old Coke" and... No wait...

Cartoon Network 2: Electric Bugaloo. Of course most of us just call that Boomerang, which used to play the old Hanna/Barbara cartoons that were pushed out to make room for more play for Cartoon Cartoons (Courage, Dexter, and the like). Now it looks like they're playing a lot of... less than excellent 80s cartoons. You can still catch Pink Panther sometimes though, but Looney Tunes is too offensive for digital cable.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-15, 09:03 AM
Congratulations! Cartoon Network will do an MTV? "More than just music" :smalltongue:

Soon they will start "Cartoon Network 2. For cartoons. And then they will bring back "Old Coke" and... No wait...

Actually I think they have like 3 Cartoon Networks now: Cartoon Network, Boomerang, and another that plays the more recent Cartoon Network stuff that got bumped for the current programming...

Skorj
2009-07-15, 07:23 PM
Wow, this thread makes me feel really, really ... old. :smallfrown: From my childhood, I remember when Scooby Doo was in it's first reruns, and the 1967 Spider Man still had life in reruns (I remember episodes that seemed to be 2 minutes of plot, and 20 minutes of a 3-second clip of Spidey swinging on a web looped over and over again).

I remember the first time Scrappy Doo happened, and then when they changed the format to focus more on Scrappy Doo :smalleek:, so I'm very clear on the whole "the old cartoons aren't really better" thing.

OK, maybe the Playground can help me here: there's an anime I saw one episode of in the 90s, and have been trying to figure out ever since what it was. It was a "power suits in space" anime where our heros wore something called "E-Suits", which were not humongous mecha, and it seemed to have a multi-episode story arc. Does this tiny bit of info ring any bells for anyone at all?

Kris Strife
2009-07-15, 07:49 PM
Are you thinking of Exo-Squad?

Berserk Monk
2009-07-15, 08:01 PM
It's not a "Badassed" show, at least by action standards. It's appeal comes from how much of a freakshow the setting is. Stormalong Harbor is sorta Bikini Bottom if it was hit by a case of Bubonic Plague and Scurvy. The humor is naturally surreal and bizarre, something that appeals to most audiences.

Yes I know it's not a badass show, and most of the shows I watch you couldn't generalize with the world badass (except Gurren Lagann). I also enjoy surreal and bizarre humor. But the show it just to cutesy for me. If that captain guy that live with Flapjack was a real adventurer as the show claims, he'd have gutted Flapjack and and tossed him in the sea (or at least abuse and torment the annoying, little jerk).

Skorj
2009-07-15, 08:04 PM
Are you thinking of Exo-Squad?

Hey, yeah, that might actually be it. I'll have to NetFlix it and see. Thanks! (Nothing beats the Playground as a treasure trove of useless trivia! :smallbiggrin:)

Kris Strife
2009-07-16, 05:00 AM
Hey, yeah, that might actually be it. I'll have to NetFlix it and see. Thanks! (Nothing beats the Playground as a treasure trove of useless trivia! :smallbiggrin:)

Even more trivia, they made a toy line and a board game that my local game shop used to sell (until it went out of buisiness and I moved.)

Jayngfet
2009-07-16, 05:10 AM
So I just woke up, and I turned on my TV... Its was on Cartoon Network because I was enjoying some Harvey Birdman before I went to sleep... About 3 seconds after I turn it on, there was an annoyingly long commercial about how they were going to be "more than just cartoons"...

My question is this... Who asked for that? Why would anyone want CARTOON Network to have anything other than cartoons? You don't see anyone asking Comedy Central to have shows that aren't comedy...

Of course after new of CN changing it's name AWAY from cartoon network to support live action they got cold feet and decided to cancel some live action, removing two hours of live action hours after the leak outright.

OracleofWuffing
2009-07-16, 11:38 AM
But the show it just to cutesy for me. If that captain guy that live with Flapjack was a real adventurer as the show claims, he'd have gutted Flapjack and and tossed him in the sea (or at least abuse and torment the annoying, little jerk).
Psst... One of the jokes in Flapjack is that Captain K'nuckles is the worst adventurer ever, and Flapjack is too innocent to notice it. K'nuckles is more of a slacker, sponge, hobo, or boozehound than an adventurer. The reason why K'nuckles hasn't thrown Flapjack overboard is because K'nuckles doesn't have a place to live: Bubbie the whale, which serves as ship, apartment, and friend to the main cast, is Flapjack's mom (by adoption).

In the grand scheme of things, K'nuckles has no adventuring experience or actual power. The very fact that they live together is actually Knuckles abusing Flapjack for all it's worth, and that's setting aside when he wagers Flapjack at the poker table, convinces Flapjack that doing the laundry is an adventure, or eating Flapjack's well-earned candy (euphemism, read: rum).

Not saying that Flapjack, the character, himself isn't annoying, just that I don't think you've caught the levels they're working on.