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Ponce
2009-06-24, 09:45 PM
Ok. So I've got a 30HD ancient fang dragon corpse. It can't be made into a skeleton or zombie using animate dead... is there some way to overcome the 20/10HD limitation of the spell? If not, is there some other way to turn it into a mindless servant? Help is much appreciated! Level 17 abjurer, banned schools are evocation and illusion.

Fcannon
2009-06-24, 10:04 PM
Err...why won't animate dead work, exactly? It let's you create up to 2x your caster level in undead HD; at 17, that would be 34. I just check the srd entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm), it doesn't say anything about any other HD cap...

EDIT: Nevermind, it's in the Zombie/Skeleton entries. You'd think they'd put all the relevant info to a spell's function in the spell's entry...

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-24, 10:06 PM
Hit Dice
Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it can’t be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.


Hit Dice
Drop any Hit Dice gained from class levels (to a minimum of 1) and raise remaining Hit Dice to d12s. If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can’t be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell.

From here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) and here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm)

EDIT: You could make it a shadow, or mummify it. But zombie/skeleton? No. Intelligent undead or bust with this one buddy.

holywhippet
2009-06-24, 10:08 PM
Do Create Undead or Create Greater Undead work with non-humanoid corpses?

Ponce
2009-06-24, 10:14 PM
Even if you'd hit the limit, the desecrate spell lets you go up even higher.

Do Create Undead or Create Greater Undead work with non-humanoid corpses?

I was referring to what ZeroNumerous posted, yeah. Are you sure Desecrate overcomes that limit? It doesn't seem intended to. If I use Create (Greater) Undead I don't really have a reliable way to maintain control over it.

What about that other template... tomb creature or something?

Thanks for the replies

holywhippet
2009-06-24, 10:16 PM
I was referring to what ZeroNumerous posted, yeah. Are you sure Desecrate overcomes that limit? It doesn't seem intended to. If I use Create (Greater) Undead I don't really have a reliable way to maintain control over it.

What about that other template... tomb creature or something?

Thanks for the replies

Probably not now that I look at it. It overcomes the 2HD per caster level limit but not the limit for skeletons.

Hmm, I wonder if you could make it into a bone golem instead? Flesh golems have to be made out of humanoid parts unfortunately.

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-24, 10:37 PM
What about that other template... tomb creature or something?

There's the mummified creature template in LM. But really, there is nothing you can do that won't make it intelligent as well. Golem is the way to go.

There's also the Skeletal creature template, but I forget which one that's from.

Emy
2009-06-24, 10:41 PM
Draconomicon is your friend :)

The Zombie Dragon and Skeletal Dragon don't have HD limits... and they can be created by animate dead. See those templates for more detailed info.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-06-24, 10:42 PM
Ok. So I've got a 30HD ancient fang dragon corpse. It can't be made into a skeleton or zombie using animate dead... is there some way to overcome the 20/10HD limitation of the spell? If not, is there some other way to turn it into a mindless servant? Help is much appreciated! Level 17 abjurer, banned schools are evocation and illusion.

How about asking the DM if it can be made into a 20HD zombie (ignoring the base creatures HD)? I think I would rule that as OK.

Gaiyamato
2009-06-24, 10:42 PM
It could be turned into a Sanguinus Drinker in MM5 page 142 using only the Create Undead spell.
You would quickly need to use Command undead on it however.
It has +7 Will save. So you will need a pretty good DC.

10HD, CR 5 and some funky (and useless for your level) abilties. A very evil creature though and probably not much use against CR 17 monsters. :P

You could mummify it?
Make a really nasty bad-ass wraith (use the savage species template and create undead). You JUST manage to make a wraith.
Could be hard to control however.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-24, 10:53 PM
Draconomicon is your friend :)

The Zombie Dragon and Skeletal Dragon don't have HD limits... and they can be created by animate dead. See those templates for more detailed info.+1. Those templates are the only way to make Undead Dragons that don't suck.

Ponce
2009-06-24, 11:13 PM
Draconomicon is your friend :)

The Zombie Dragon and Skeletal Dragon don't have HD limits... and they can be created by animate dead. See those templates for more detailed info.

SCORE. Thanks again for the replies everyone. This is exactly what I was looking for. I'll try to make it worthy of Xykon.

Gaiyamato
2009-06-24, 11:19 PM
I really need to get a copy of that book. :P

Ravens_cry
2009-06-24, 11:44 PM
SCORE. Thanks again for the replies everyone. This is exactly what I was looking for. I'll try to make it worthy of Xykon.
Do better then Xykon, his got the head sliced off by a certain petulant fighter.

Myrmex
2009-06-25, 03:20 AM
Got A Corpse... Now the fun begins?


:smallconfused:
Ew?

pasko77
2009-06-25, 03:44 AM
Got A Corpse... Now the fun begins?


:smallconfused:
Ew?

AHAHAAHA! :smallbiggrin:
This made me rotfl!

Emy
2009-06-25, 04:00 AM
Got A Corpse... Now the fun begins?


:smallconfused:
Ew?

Lichloved.:frown:

Coidzor
2009-06-25, 05:34 AM
Dragon Undead
Dragons deserve their own paragraph. Normally, they blow because they have high HD and have a bunch of abilities that don’t come with the MM templates; however, if your DM uses the Draconomicon, you can get the awesome Skeleton Dragon and Zombie Dragon templates. The important thing to note is that these guys don’t cap out at base HD of 20 for skeles and 10 for zombies, meaning you can get very, very large undead this way, and that’s so good that your DM most likely won’t let you do it (even though its possible to create up to four times your caster level of an undead if you use the errated Deathbound domain and a Desecrate area). It breaks down like this:
Skeleton dragons lose all their wicked natural armor, get bonus HP equal to twice HD, and get the default skeleton natty armor, but they keep Ex Special Attacks, and they can’t fly. Except for the HD cap removal, this is in all ways worse than using the old rules for skeletons with an Awaken Undead.
Zombie dragons keep half their natural armor, get bonus HPs equal to twice HD, keep their breath weapon at half strength, and lose any Cha-based special attacks. This is actually kind of awesome, even with the usual zombie single action. You can potentially choose a really big dragon, animate it, and it will be an actual tank with large armor, HDs, HPs, and with Awaken Undead it will have mass of skills and feats, effectively becoming an actual vehicle for your party to fly around in. As an example, a 10th level Necromancer (with Corpsecrafter, and in a Desecrate area with altar) can animate an Adult Green dragon (CR 13) that is Huge with 20 HD, a BAB of +10 with a Str of 27, and an average of 250 hps, though its AC is only 17, meaning you’ll need to give it AC items. Ideally, you want to animate a Silver Dragon, as the DC on its paralyzing breath is based on its HD, meaning a 19 HD Young Adult Silver Dragon becomes a Zombie Dragon with a DC of 20 on its breath weapons. Also note that with the Spell Compendium version of Awaken Undead cast in maximized form, our Adult Green Dragon is looking at 96 skill points with skill maxes of 24 (with dragon skills in-class) and 7 feats.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=599129

So... probably zombie tank due to the whole flight deal and such.

Adumbration
2009-06-25, 05:56 AM
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=599129

So... probably zombie tank due to the whole flight deal and such.

In the other hand, a zombie can't get a Full-attack, which can be very powerful indeed for a big dragon.

Gaiyamato
2009-06-25, 07:00 AM
I still say wraith Dragon. Nasty piece of work.