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Seffbasilisk
2006-02-13, 10:00 PM
A believer is one who dedicated thier lives to a goal or ideal. *If they truely believe in something strong enough, thier belief and force of personality brings them special abilties. *Squads of believers are often the most dedicated fighters. *Believers may be any alignment, but if a believer gives up on thier belief, or finds it false, all special abilities are lost, retaining only the weapon familiarities. *If a believer's belief goal is recognized, they may choose a new belief (this choice must be made within one month of the old belief being completed)

Requirement: Must have a Belief, BAB +4
The Believer

HD: D8
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Fort: Full, Ref: Half Will: Full
Skills: 4+Int mod
Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide(Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility and royalty / religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A believer is proficient in all armor and shields (except tower shields) and all simple and martial weapons.

Abilities:
Level 2: Poweful belief. *A believer may add a value up to the lesser of his Charisma bonus and his levels in Believer to his Will, Reflex and Fortitude saves (OVERLAPS PALADIN BONUS TO SAVES)

Level 4: Smite Anti-Belief. *Anyone going against thier belief, can be smote by Smite Anti-Belief (this is identical to a paladin's smite evil in all other ways (including #/day)
Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.

At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.

Level 5: Greater Poweful belief: A powerful believer may add his charisma modifier and levels in believer as a deflection bonus to his AC. (only works when the believer has an Armor Check Penalty of three or less)

Level 6: Dying Wish. 1/week when believing death is immeninent, a Believer can release a burst of anguish for dying with thier task uncompleted. *The blast does 10 damage per point of charisma bonus +10 damage for every two levels in believer they have. *It's treated as a burst centered on the believer (who takes no damage from it) with a 15ft radius +5ft/level in believer. *Reflex save allowed for 1/2 damage, Spell Resistance applies (caster level for this = levels in Believer +CHA mod+5)

Level 8: Power of the Faithful. *1/day (+1 for every point of charisma bonus a Believer has) a Believer can undergo Righteous Might *Caster level = Believer levels.

Bonus Feats at level 1 and level 9.


Comments? *helpful hints anyone?

The_Werebear
2006-02-13, 10:59 PM
Hmm...

You say they are dedicated fighters, but I think cleric may be more appropriate. I would switch the bonus feats with a level of divine caster.

Seffbasilisk
2006-02-13, 11:02 PM
No, because it's not just casters...and they don't have to channel a particular god or force. They can go from L-G to C-E, but as long as they hold thier belief, they hold thier power.

the.sundance.kid
2006-02-16, 01:01 AM
Dying Wish does far too much damage, the class is too easy to qualify for, 'Charisma' should be 'Charisma bonus', too many bonus feats.

Powerful Belief should read 'A believer may add a value up to the lesser of his Charisma bonus and his class level to his Will, Reflex and Fortitude saves, and as a deflection bonus to his AC.' - nix the additional bonus from class levels but don't let a character dip into the PrC for two levels and get full Cha to AC/saves, that's way too much.

You need to give an x/day number for the smites, and I don't recommend you set it too high, since the character can essentially smite anyone they'd want to smite.

Power of the Faithful should be replaced with an effect other than Tenser's Transformation - maybe Greater Aspect of the Deity, or one of the alignment-based aura spells.

anphorus
2006-02-16, 01:19 AM
You need to give an x/day number for the smites, and I don't recommend you set it too high, since the character can essentially smite anyone they'd want to smite.
I definately agree with this, you could give your character an absolutely ludicrous belief such as "The sky is green" or "I am the son of a peice of cheese" or even "Our entire existances are nothing more than playthings for nigh-incomprehendable super gods who decide our fate based on the rolls of various, many sided dice". As long as that character beleives it he can smite just about everyone.

Seffbasilisk
2006-02-16, 08:23 PM
Cut down on # of feats
Changed Tenser's Transformation to Righteous Might
Clarified what I meant 'bout the smites
Powerful Belief changed
Dying wish weakened



I definately agree with this, you could give your character an absolutely ludicrous belief such as "The sky is green" or "I am the son of a peice of cheese" or even "Our entire existances are nothing more than playthings for nigh-incomprehendable super gods who decide our fate based on the rolls of various, many sided dice". As long as that character beleives it he can smite just about everyone.


No you couldnt. *The first two would be easily disproved and a cleric using commune would find the other false, and if a Believer finds their belief false...


Believers may be any alignment, but if a believer gives up on thier belief, or finds it false, all special abilities are lost, retaining only the weapon familiarities.

jdrich
2006-02-16, 08:51 PM
The class needs a great deal of work.

Of note:


Level 2: Poweful belief. A believer may add a value up to the lesser of his Charisma bonus and his class level to his Will, Reflex and Fortitude saves, and as a deflection bonus to his AC.

Enterable at level 4, a character (lets say a paladin) with a Cha of 18 suddenly has a +4 deflection to his armor class.

Discounting the fact that a level 4 paladin/2 believer will have a +8 to all saves, a +4 deflection bonus to an already high AC.

Adding on a cloak of the nymph and a leveling mod, and suddenly that level 6 paladin has a +5 deflection bonus to AC (one of the best AC buffs) and a +10 to all saves, effectively making him untouchable by a great many spells.

And that's one of the less broken class abilities.

Rathorn
2006-02-17, 10:48 AM
I agree. If I was a player, I could (and would) abuse the **** out of this one.

Maybe break the Powerful belief into two parts:

2nd level - Believer addes Cha bonus to all saves. DOES NOT STACK WITH PALADIN BONUSES.

5th-ish level - Believer adds CHA bonus as deflection bonus.

How about it? :)

Seffbasilisk
2006-02-17, 12:54 PM
Sounds great! Thanks! ;D

Toliudar
2006-02-17, 04:34 PM
A believer is one who dedicated thier lives to a goal or ideal. *

Level 4: Smite Anti-Belief. *Anyone going against thier belief, can be smote by Smite Anti-Belief (this is identical to a paladin's smite evil in all other ways (including #/day)

This is a fascinating ability, but mechanically difficult. Say, the believer believes that "all creatures should be free to pursue their own destinies." Is a prison guard susceptible to his smite? Is the ogre in the dungeon that the character is fighting in, but about whom the character knows nothing? Awkward.

Seffbasilisk
2006-02-17, 04:57 PM
it'd be open to alot of DM discretion, but after all it IS DM discretion that allows munchkins, so this would be things for mature players only. Like things from the Book of vile darkness and the Book of Exhaulted Deeds.

Venatius
2006-02-17, 09:17 PM
No you couldnt. *The first two would be easily disproved and a cleric using commune would find the other false, and if a Believer finds their belief false...


I can tell you've never debated politics or religion on the internet before. ;) Seriously, if you don't want to change your opinion, you can justify ANYTHING, at least to yourself. The ability's wording isn't just agonizingly vague, but it can be wildly exploited while still adhering completely to the vague description it's given.

Seffbasilisk
2006-02-17, 11:56 PM
See Paladin's Code. ;D

Whamme
2006-02-18, 12:19 AM
The class needs a great deal of work.

Of note:


Enterable at level 4, a character (lets say a paladin) with a Cha of 18 suddenly has a +4 deflection to his armor class.

Discounting the fact that a level 4 paladin/2 believer will have a +8 to all saves, a +4 deflection bonus to an already high AC.

Adding on a cloak of the nymph and a leveling mod, and suddenly that level 6 paladin has a +5 deflection bonus to AC (one of the best AC buffs) and a +10 to all saves, effectively making him untouchable by a great many spells.

And that's one of the less broken class abilities.

I was assuming "Class Level" meant levels in this PRC.

Venatius
2006-02-18, 01:23 AM
See Paladin's Code. * ;D

If you're trying to accuse that one of vagueness, that IS left up to DM discretion since it rests on "evil acts", and objective morality is left to the DM. What a character does or doesn't believe isn't. Unless I misunderstand what's being referenced.

Seffbasilisk
2006-02-19, 02:45 AM
I was assuming "Class Level" meant levels in this PRC.

Thats what I meant by it...




If you're trying to accuse that one of vagueness, that IS left up to DM discretion since it rests on "evil acts", and objective morality is left to the DM. What a character does or doesn't believe isn't. Unless I misunderstand what's being referenced.

But if the character's belief is broken is up ot the DM, just like whether or not a paladin breaks thier code. (or a VoP code)