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Adumbration
2009-06-27, 12:57 PM
Now, I'd like to lay a base line of fluff first, and some explanations. This is a theoretical character - at least at the moment - but if I can convince the DM, I might just do it.

Not necessary to read, but would help to understand:

Our 5th level party just defeated a quite powerful undead drow spellcaster. We have gained 3 000 XP during that session. This will be important later. I had a thought: if an evil, possibly undead, caster had someone from whom she wanted A) information, B) servitude, what would be the logical choice?

Now, a live humanoid can be quite tricky to dominate. Sure, it would be tried first, of course. But what if that course of action failed? May I now point you to the Ritual of Crucimigration. Turns the individual in question to undead without losing the valuable information and skills that he possesses. Then it would be a simple matter of casting Command undead and phrasing your words properly. Alternatively, Rebuking.

You may say, now, how does Spellstitched come into it? What if the caster, after the ritual, was distracted or simply had to be somewhere or do something. This leaves an intelligent undead, somewhere locked up. What if this individual is a Sorcerer, with Craft Wondrous Item feat? Already having lost half the battle by dying, he might want to even some scales. He dretches up a method, perhaps having read it in an ancient tome, and begins slowly etching himself with magical runes. Of course, by necessity, he can not have more than 10-12 wisdom, since it would cost too much XP, but 10-12 is enough.

And so the party of adventurers discover a prisoner, after defeating the evil spellcaster, tattooed with unknown runes, locked in a cell somewhere. Sound plausible enough?
Ends up with Spellstitched Necropolitan Halfling Sorcerer 4 for the cost of 4 000 gps out of WBL, 1 level and 2 000 xp. 3000 if wisdom is 14.

And now, finally, to my questions.

1) Would this be balanced for an ECL 5 party, 2000 XP away from 6th level?
2) How could the undead-edness be concealed from the party, IC and maybe OOC? I'm not sure if they would mind, since none of them are good, and 1 is evil.
3) Any advice on how to break this to DM? He's a frequent reader of these forums, though, so it might be best if he read this.

Now, the best thing is, I can even be Good with this character.:smallbiggrin:

Quietus
2009-06-27, 01:09 PM
1) Would this be balanced for an ECL 5 party, 2000 XP away from 6th level?
2) How could the undead-edness be concealed from the party, IC and maybe OOC? I'm not sure if they would mind, since none of them are good, and 1 is evil.
3) Any advice on how to break this to DM? He's a frequent reader of these forums, though, so it might be best if he read this.

Now, the best thing is, I can even be Good with this character.:smallbiggrin:


1) Depends entirely on what spells you take. Off the top of my head, there's nothing inherently broken/cheesy about either necropolitan or the spellstitched template, it's just a matter of what spells it gives you access to - and none of your spells you can cast at that level will break things. Hell, you may be UNDER powered, given that you'll be 4th level (assuming that's post-exp-cost), with 2nd level spells, and more typical casters have had third for the majority of this level.

2) Disguise skill + gentle repose?

3) Just tell him. Have your spells.. stiched... ready, so you can tell him "This is what I want to do, this is the spells I want. See, nothing broken!"

Adumbration
2009-06-27, 01:20 PM
Oh, and to give an idea of the party's current power level:
- 5th level human Warblade (Lawful Evil, the main damage dealer)
- 5th level dwarven Druid with wolf animal companion
- 5th level Ninja (currently cursed with Bestow curse for 50% actions)
- 5th level Rogue
- 5th level Warforged Wizard (my current character)

EDIT: Thank you for the swift response, Quietus. Hopefully I'll get a few more - hopefully - reinforcing opinions. :smallsmile:

EDIT 2 (to prevent doubleposting):

What I would most likely do with the Spellstitched spells (14 Wis):

- Disguise self 2/day
- Protection from Evil 2/day
- Invisibility 2/day
- Command Undead 2/day
- Gentle repose 1/day
- Gaseous form 1/day

If you notice, almost all of these are geared for escape from the clutches of the enemy.

Atelm
2009-06-28, 05:05 AM
3) Any advice on how to break this to DM? He's a frequent reader of these forums, though, so it might be best if he read this.

I am now, so you needen't worry of breaking this to me. Though I distinctively remember you mentioning you wanted to play a Svirfneblim. :smalltongue:

I'm already familiar with the spell-stiched template and I've no real problem with it, it's a matter of spell choice which you've already done. Though the fact that there's no level adjustment tagged to it makes me wonder if it was meant for PCs at all. (same no level adjustment deal with the other template, but you lose XP and a level with that one, so it's not an issue)

As for the other template I've noticed nothing, Crystalkeep index-wize, that seems inherently broken or cheesy (though I'll consult Libris Mortis soonish).

My main problem, however, is how I'm going to place this character into the campaign (and get rid of your present one) as I already had to introduce two new characters and kill a previous one last session. Which would leave only the Warblade as a member to have been in the original party, and thus the only one with a clear cut motive to go after the antagonists. :smallsigh:

One question though, why would you want to play this?

Gaiyamato
2009-06-28, 05:15 AM
I think the warforged wizard is a more powerful character.
Though the halfling might be interesting to play.

Adumbration
2009-06-28, 05:27 AM
The most natural way of introducing it to the campaign would be by having him be a prisoner that they will set free in the complex we are currently in. I believe that there's at least a place or two that we haven't been to yet. As for the motivation, it would be clear and twofold: first, although the drow mage who did the ritual is dead, she certainly wasn't the one ultimately in charge. Vengeance. Secondly, after the situation was explained to him, he would feel the need to stop the ultimate perpetrators for what they've done. He would actually have a better motivation than any of the group, perhaps exempting the Warblade.

As for why? To be frank, being a wizard is starting to vex me: I find myself fretting over my spells left for the day, and the bookkeeping is getting quite complex, all things considered. (I've had to so far print out half a dozen otherwise quite unnecessary papers for spell descriptions and lists of spells known.) I have a feeling that this will not be much improved on later, when he gains even more levels.

Secondary reason (as in, my thought progress to the Spellstitched Necropolitan halfling): I confess, I did have an idea of a Svirfnebli character with two Gnome Quickrazors, wading in melee. Then I had a look at the Svirfnebli: they have LA of 3. Ouch. There went that concept. Then I thought about a plain gnome, doing the same, and realized that it was mechanically nigh impossible: I would need EWP: Gnome Quickrazor, Improved Two-weaponfighting, a few levels in Swordsage - and I didn't want to play a martial character - Fade into Violence, etc. etc. The list was endless.

So I started elsewhere. What kind of a character might be found in the situation we encountered? A prisoner, of course. The BBEG of the day was obviously undead, and I made an assumption that she was Necropolitan. What way better to gain a minion than to turn him undead and Command/Rebuke him? So the idea started, and I remembered reading Spellstitched a while ago, and realized that an arcane caster, if he managed to hide the valuable inks somewhere on his body, could perform the Spellstitching on himself. There it started.

Tertiary reasons: it might be kinda cool to try and keep his Undead-ness secret from other players, and it would make good roleplaying, too.

Also, I think I would make him a Warlock instead of a sorcerer. Still qualifies for Craft Wondrous item, and then I really wouldn't have to worry about running out of spells.

EDIT: That was long. :smalleek:

Atelm
2009-06-28, 05:35 AM
I'll have to think about it for a bit; as I recalled you've be getting d12 hit dice (though losing your Con score), along with becoming immune to loads of stuff in the process.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typessubtypes.htm

What pesters me slightly though, is that you say he'd be 4th level, which given the level loss in Necropolitan, which, yes, the Beldam was as well, would mean you be getting the spell-stiched without actually losing anything in return for the template. :smalltongue:

Edit: although the roleplaying aplications do seem intriguing, and I've already come up with a way your hypothetical new character could advance the plot. :smallamused:

Coidzor
2009-06-28, 05:40 AM
Make one of those spell-stiched abilities animate dead and take corpsecrafter so that you can make permanent mooks/trap-springers...

Oh wait... your wisdom's not gonna be high enough for that, is it...

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-06-28, 05:40 AM
Spellstitched creatures can be created only by a wizard or
sorcerer with the Craft Wondrous Item feat and of sufficient
level to cast the spells to be imbued within the undead’s
body. The creation process takes a number of days equal to
the Wisdom score of the undead creature being spellstitched
(so a minimum of 10 days) and requires the expenditure of
1,000 gp for carving or tattooing materials in addition to 500
XP × the undead creature’s Wisdom score.

The going rate is 5 gp per point of xp cost, so that makes a Wis 14 Spellstitching priced at around 36,000 gp counting the carving or tattooing materials. It would only be fair as a PC if you're able to pay this cost, or if you do the Spellstitching yourself.

Switch Halfling to Gnome (or Air Gnome (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfAir)), and take the feat Magic in the Blood from Player's Guide to Faerun. It makes it so any of your 1/day racial spell-like abilities are usable 3/day instead. Spellstitched is a template, everything it grants is considered racial, including the spell-like abilities. One the ones where you have four daily uses to divide between two, split it 3/1 and it becomes 3/3 instead.

Coidzor
2009-06-28, 05:52 AM
The going rate is 5 gp per point of xp cost, so that makes a Wis 14 Spellstitching priced at around 36,000 gp counting the carving or tattooing materials. It would only be fair as a PC if you're able to pay this cost, or if you do the Spellstitching yourself.

Switch Halfling to Gnome (or Air Gnome (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfAir)), and take the feat Magic in the Blood from Player's Guide to Faerun. It makes it so any of your 1/day racial spell-like abilities are usable 3/day instead. Spellstitched is a template, everything it grants is considered racial, including the spell-like abilities. One the ones where you have four daily uses to divide between two, split it 3/1 and it becomes 3/3 instead.

He's already said he's doing the spell-stitching himself, so the main thing is he's subtracting the XP from his level and the GP cost from his WBL.

That's interesting... Heh, I misread that as being the air gnome that granted that 3/day thing... but since it's a feat... yeah... that definitely would make the spell-stitching more powerful. And allow more utility things to be used.

Remember that with spell-stitched spell-like abilities, you don't have to pay material components for it. Or XP costs. Not sure about the second but defintiely know that if you had the animate dead spell-stitching, you wouldn't need any black onyx....

Hmm. Since you'll have the ability/familiarity/know-how, remember that if you take a certain feat your familiar can become an undead that spell-stitched can be applied to so that it can give you even more stuff... But that's a fair ways down the road and might not even come up.

Adumbration
2009-06-28, 06:00 AM
Wait, is it 500 XP times Wisdom score in totality, not above 10? If so, that would mean... 7 000 XP. Ouch. If that's the case, I may have to reconsider... :smallfrown:

EDIT: If it's Wizard/Sorcerer only, I couldn't even be warlock.

Coidzor
2009-06-28, 06:16 AM
Wait, is it 500 XP times Wisdom score in totality, not above 10? If so, that would mean... 7 000 XP. Ouch. If that's the case, I may have to reconsider... :smallfrown:

EDIT: If it's Wizard/Sorcerer only, I couldn't even be warlock.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562 Indeed. Some discussion on it here. Depends on how your DM feels about the arguments/it.

Whoops... Here it is. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=759515 "spell stiched"

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-06-28, 06:59 AM
It definitely looks like it costs 500 xp multiplied by their entire wisdom score. Nothing in the description even implies that it only counts part of your wisdom score for that calculation. Generally you cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, the minimum XP for your current level is the lowest you can get it. That means you have to be at least 8th level, nearly to 9th, to pay 7,000 xp on one item creation such as Spellstitching. Maybe get a Thought Bottle....

Adumbration
2009-06-28, 08:11 AM
It definitely looks like it costs 500 xp multiplied by their entire wisdom score. Nothing in the description even implies that it only counts part of your wisdom score for that calculation. Generally you cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, the minimum XP for your current level is the lowest you can get it. That means you have to be at least 8th level, nearly to 9th, to pay 7,000 xp on one item creation such as Spellstitching. Maybe get a Thought Bottle....

Jeah. I guess I was misguided by the table, which was from 10 to up. Ah, well, c'est la vie.