View Full Version : Help me even out this base class

2006-02-05, 03:01 AM
The logic behind this class is to have them not good in combat but be invaluble because of their wide variety of skills

The Master

HD: d4
BAB: 1/2 level (as wizard)
Ford: poor
Reflex: good
Will: poor
Class Skills: All except Autohypnosis, Concentration, Psycraft and Spellcraft
Skill Points: 10+int (x4 at first level)

Weapon Proficiencies: Club, Dagger, Sap, Gauntlet, unarmed strike

1st: Trapfinding, Bonus Feat
3rd: Trap Sense +1
4th: Bonus Feat
5th: Mastery +1
6th: Trap Sense +2
7th: Bonus Feat
8th: Use what's at hand
9th: Trap Sense +3
10th: Quick Search, Bonus Feat, Mastery +2
12th: Trap Sense +4
13th: Bonus Feat
15th: Trap Sense +5, Mastery +3
16th: Bonus Feat
18th: Trap Sense +6
19th: Bonus Feat
20th: Mastery +4

Bonus Feat
Choose a feat from the list:
Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Decietful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Investigator, Negotator, Nimble Fingers, Persuasive, Self-Sufficent, Skill Focus, or Stealthy

At 5th level, The Master gets a +1 bonus on all skills that he has ranks in. This bonus increases by +1 at 10th, 15th, and 20th levels

Use what's at hand
At 8th level, The Master may now use improvised tools at no penalty

Quick Search
At 10th level, Searching for the master takes half the time as normal with no penalties

I need to flesh it out a bit in the later levels but I'm going for somthing like a rogue but instead of combat abilities, more skills that can be useful in many situations. The whole pont of this class is to be a sort of...rogue stand in. better than the rogue as far as skills go, but pretty bad in combat. I would appreciate the help

EDIT: Added Hit Dice, Changed Skill Points Per Level

EDIT: Removed Evaision and Uncany Dodge, Added Weapon Profiencies

2006-02-05, 03:14 AM
An Expert without the former's combat prowess, hm, I take it this is for NPC use only in mainstream adventures?

Maybe the bonus feats could include the various trait described gives +2 on two skills feats?

And maybe a class ability that lets it ignore the max skill ranks cap?

2006-02-05, 03:23 AM
My opinion?
Give the guy some Hit Dice, man!

Secondly, the DMG says that the Expert NPC class is almost good enough to be a PC class in its own right, and they only have 6+int skill points, but they get 10 skills of their own to choose from. Giving twice their skill points, and every skill save for Concentration and Spellcraft (why, I have no clue), and bonus skill focus feats, the awesomeness of extra skill bonuses, and every non-combat-related rogue ability, It's just plain stupid IMO. Tone it down just a wee bit.

Thirdly, if you're going to use the 'combat suckiness' argument, I know a half-dozen rogues that are perfectly functional PC's but have little to no combat potential. Rogues can scout, hide, trap-find, spy, lie, cheat, steal, sabotage, night-watch and use magic items without ever making use of one sneak attack die.

But then again, I've never made a custom class in my life, so what the heck do I know?

2006-02-05, 09:48 AM
take out evasion and uncanny dodge, that should balence it a little and have nothing to do with skills.

2006-02-05, 12:07 PM
It's a good NPC class to be sure. mebbe you can set up guilds in the major cities that hire out elite skill people. Personally wouldn't want to play it myself though, as we never would be able to use all those skills...

I say you should give him a feature once or twice that lets him extend the caps on skill ranks. Like 4+class level and later 5+class level instead of 3+CL

2006-02-05, 05:56 PM
Well, using the Class Construction System (found on http://www.community3e.com in the classes section), your class would come out as this:

Hit die d4: 5 points
BAB low: 10 points
1 Good save: 10 points
43 class skills: 43 points
10 skill points: 85 points

Trapfinding: 4 points
Bonus feats: 28 points
Evasion: 4 points
Trapsense: 10 points
Uncanny Dodge: 4 points
Mastery: 14 points
Use what's at hand: 2 points
Quick Search: 1 point

Together this would make 220 points, not counting weapon and armor proficiencies, which you still haven't set.
Considering that the average of all the core classes (including those from the Extended Psionics Handbook) have 215 points, this class is overpowered right away. Granted, the actual abilities, even though they are powerful in the math of the system, probably show very little use in actual gameplay. I don't think he'll ever get to use all of those skills, and other than that, he's just a sort of specialized rogue.

An interesting idea, yes, but probably ill suited for a PC class at this stage.


2006-02-07, 02:16 AM
Okay, I made a few changes, I know that most PCs won't want to play it but whatever

2006-02-07, 02:40 AM
If you are looking at a skilled character, might I suggest looking at the Exemplar PrC from the Complete Adventurer. You could modify it and stretch it out to 20 levels. The Exemplar is based solely and wholely on skill use, and gains bonuses to help her in those skills.