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TheThan
2009-06-27, 03:10 PM
Ok so yesterday I was flipping through a dnd 3.5 rulebook and I stumbled upon a feat that increased a rogue’s sneak attack. I then made the mistake several hours later of mentioning said feat to the party rogue. Now I feel I need to find it and have the details ready just in case he asked.

I don’t remember the exact details, nor to I recall exactly which book I was flipping through. I’m not sure if its even a feat, it could be something else. I've flipped through the books i was looking through yesterday, and i can't seem to find it. So can anyone help me with a book and page number?


edit

ok I found what I was looking for. thanks everyone. now let this thread take its Xd6 backstab damage and die. :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2009-06-27, 03:13 PM
Craven-feat [Champions of Ruin] increases Sneak Attack damage. Martial Study: Assassin's Stance [Tome of Battle] can also do that. Beyond that, I can't think of anything to that effect. Do you have any idea what book you were browsing? Was it a Complete? FR supplement? Something else? Any kind of memory at all?

Zeta Kai
2009-06-27, 03:23 PM
So can anyone help me with a book and page number?

I'll do you one better; here's a link. It's Improved Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSneakAttack), & it's epic, although technically obtainable by a 15th-level rogue.

Quietus
2009-06-27, 03:24 PM
Craven : +character level to damage whenever you sneak attack. As a flat bonus, this can be multiplied on a crit. I think it also gives you a penalty on saves vs. fear.

Assassin's Stance : ToB material. You need to take levels in one of the classes in that book to access it, or Martial Study and Martial Stance feats. It increases your Sneak Attack by 2d6.

Improved Sneak Attack : Epic. Increases sneak attack by 1d6.

There's also the [Ambush] feats, which give you certain effects if you give up xd6 sneak attack damage. Those are all in either Complete Adventurer or, more likely, Complete Scoundrel. At least, to my knowledge.

TheThan
2009-06-27, 03:26 PM
I thought it was complete adventurer, or possibly dungeonscape. Though you may want to check the other completes while you’re at.

I seem to remember it doubling your sneak attack dice. So if you had +2d6, with the feat it increased it to +4d6 but I very well could be wrong.


thanks for the help thusfar, I'm really racking my brain over this.

Flickerdart
2009-06-27, 03:27 PM
A common way of getting your SA up isn't feats, but dipping one level of classes that give SA dice, so a Rogue 1/Invisible Blade 1/Assassin 1/Unseen Seer 1 (with whatever padding you need to qualify) would have 4 SA dice instead of a straight Rogue's 2. You could also dip Ninja for Sudden Strike, but it sucks.

Or, technically 4, anyways. IB's class feature counts as SA for the purposes of qualifying for stuff.

ColdSepp
2009-06-27, 03:30 PM
I'll do you one better; here's a link. It's Improved Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSneakAttack), & it's epic, although technically obtainable by a 15th-level rogue.

Incorrect.


At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

TheThan
2009-06-27, 03:32 PM
Like said, it might be an item or something else. Sorry I’m so hazy, this sort of stuff usually doesn’t happen to me.

Quietus
2009-06-27, 03:38 PM
I thought it was complete adventurer, or possibly dungeonscape. Though you may want to check the other completes while you’re at.

I seem to remember it doubling your sneak attack dice. So if you had +2d6, with the feat it increased it to +4d6 but I very well could be wrong.


thanks for the help thusfar, I'm really racking my brain over this.

I know of no effect which does this. It sounds... horribly broken. And I don't often see it coming up in character optimization suggestions, which leads me to believe you may be remembering incorrectly.

TheThan
2009-06-27, 03:40 PM
Aha! I found it guys

Its called deadly precision, it’s a weapon enhancement for rogues. Adds +2d6 damage when you sneak attack with it.

I clearly read I really wrong when I found it.

Well thanks for the help anyway. I’ll keep those suggestions in mind in case my rogue buddy asks me for optimization help.

well now i know, and knowing is half the battle.

T.G. Oskar
2009-06-27, 03:42 PM
I'll do you one better; here's a link. It's Improved Sneak Attack, & it's epic, although technically obtainable by a 15th-level rogue.

Incorrect.

Note the "technically". The reason is because, if you were to ignore the restriction of "no epic feats until level 21", a rogue could have that feat by the time it reaches level 15.

He (and probably everyone else who noticed the "epic") know(s) it's not possible, but there are Epic feats that don't have any Epic restrictions (specific class at level 21+, or understandible epic degrees of any ability score) aside from that encompassing restriction. And, even then, some of the effects have already been replaced with non-epic feats or have effects that won't benefit Epic characters after all (they are perfectly balanced with non-Epic characters).

It's the same with the Exalted feats; while probably everyone knows you have to live the way of the Exalted, perhaps not everyone knows that it actually grants you an aura of good equal to character level, and that if you do an evil act, you lose the benefits of the feat (aside from the vows which have an ever stringent restriction).

Quietus
2009-06-27, 03:46 PM
Note the "technically". The reason is because, if you were to ignore the restriction of "no epic feats until level 21", a rogue could have that feat by the time it reaches level 15.

So, if you ignore a rule, then that rule doesn't exist, and therefore is an available choice for every character ever?

You realize how remarkably silly that is right?


Aha! I found it guys

Its called deadly precision, it’s a weapon enhancement for rogues. Adds +2d6 damage when you sneak attack with it.

I clearly read I really wrong when I found it.

Well thanks for the help anyway. I’ll keep those suggestions in mind in case my rogue buddy asks me for optimization help.

well now i know, and knowing is half the battle.

GI Joe!!!

Neat find, what book is that in? Might not be double sneak attack dice, but it'd be useful in some situations.

TheThan
2009-06-27, 03:53 PM
GI Joe!!!

Neat find, what book is that in? Might not be double sneak attack dice, but it'd be useful in some situations.


*glances at avatar*


complete adventurer page 127 for those who want to know.

T.G. Oskar
2009-06-27, 04:03 PM
So, if you ignore a rule, then that rule doesn't exist, and therefore is an available choice for every character ever?

You realize how remarkably silly that is right?

I've heard of Paladins that Smite Evil whenever someone pings from Detect Evil, but Posters that Smite Offenders whenever a poster pings from Detect Bad Rule?

That's a new one.

Guess it's silly as well to point out that I was actually agreeing with you, and even expanding. I just clarified the "technicality". Where that rule not to exist, a Rogue would have it.

By no means did I meant to actually ignore the rule. Just as I mentioned the rules for Exalted feats, which actually require you to be more than Good. Just how much is debatable.

hamishspence
2009-06-27, 04:09 PM
the regularly mentioned Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold might qualify, as a 15th level rogue, based on the "old dragons can take epic feats" interpretation.

herrhauptmann
2009-06-27, 08:51 PM
Bracers of Murder, Drow of Underdark
Master of masks PrC: Assassins mask
A weapon in MiC, and DMG (forget the names)
Shadowhand Power in ToB.

All these provide additional sneak attack beyond just frontloading classes and PrC's that grant sneak attack at low levels.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-27, 08:56 PM
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6107466#post6107466) managed to compile a pretty comprehensive list of the ways of boosting SA. Toss in enough, and your DM will make every enemy a Treant.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-27, 09:02 PM
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6107466#post6107466) managed to compile a pretty comprehensive list of the ways of boosting SA. Toss in enough, and your DM will make every enemy a Treant.

Vinestrike.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-27, 09:04 PM
Vinestrike.And the occasional Gelatinous Cube. :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-27, 09:59 PM
Deadly Precision in CAdv is +2d6 for a +2, wheras the Deadly Precision from MIC is only +1d6 for a +1. Didn't MIC have a caveat that anything published herein overrides anything previously published?

However, when optimizing your SA damage, the key is not to simply maximize your SA damage per hit, but to ensure you can apply it more frequently.

This is why you also get Island of Blades stance, for those flanking opportunities. Sure, you loose 2d6 vs Assassin's Stance, but applying 13d6 vs 15d6 as opposed to applying base weapon damage... no brainer.

Also make sure you pick up Pouncing Strike with your two-level dip, so you can full attack on your surprise round, and TWF your way to victory.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-27, 10:03 PM
Aha! I found it guys

Its called deadly precision, it’s a weapon enhancement for rogues. Adds +2d6 damage when you sneak attack with it.

That's not the Deadly Precision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#deadlyPrecision) that I know.

sofawall
2009-06-27, 10:15 PM
That feat is amazing. Like, holy crap, that's good.

EDIT: Versus other feats rogues are likely to be taking. When you have 15d6 sneak attack, you average increases a fair bit.

EDIT 2: Oh, wait, you keep the second roll, even if a one. Not as good as I thought, but still handy.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-27, 10:20 PM
That feat is amazing. Like, holy crap, that's good.On 1/6th of all your damage dice, it increases damage by an average of 2.5. Meaning an average increase of .416667 damge per SA die, less than half a point. A 19th level Rogue gains an average of 4.3 damage per hit from it. Not worth it at any level.

lsfreak
2009-06-28, 02:14 AM
On 1/6th of all your damage dice, it increases damage by an average of 2.5. Meaning an average increase of .416667 damge per SA die, less than half a point. A 19th level Rogue gains an average of 4.3 damage per hit from it. Not worth it at any level.

Plus you can get the same thing for 8000gp on your bracers, and on top of it you get +2dmg/atk against flat-footed opponents. Better than the feat any day (bracers of murder, drow of the underdark).