Vote Up a New 4e Class!

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Well I'm bored, so let's make up a new Homebrew class for D&D 4e.

First, Let's vote on a power Source. Will the class draw power from:

Arcane
Martial
Divine
Primal

When we've voted on that, we'll go to the class' role. Voting for the power source ends on Wednsday, June 31st. Let the Voting Commence!

[Alteran]

Good luck, making a class in 4e is a lot of work.

I vote Arcane.

[Shadow_Elf]

Just for kicks, I would recommend adding "Psionic" and "Shadow" to the power source list, as well as "Write-Ins", as people may come up with creative ideas for Power Sources for the class.

With the addition of Psionics and Shadow, I would vote Psionics
If you want to stick with published power sources in established books, then I will vote Primal.

[Yakk]

I vote Martial.

[skywalker]

We don't know how Psionic is going to work, which would make that harder, I think.

I vote Martial, myself.

[RTGoodman]

I'm tired of Arcane and Divine classes, and I don't like the Primal source much. Let's go with Martial.

[Catch]

Why not Psionic? It's only different from Arcane in flavor.

[Mando Knight]

Martial. I'm gunning for what you think a Martial Controller would do.

[Limos]

Martial I too second the notion of a Martial Controller

[Yakk]

I already voted -- but I was aiming for an Int-based martial class.

The game needs more Int-based classes.

Maybe Duellist -- Int sub Cha (Dashing) /Dex (Swashbuckler). :-)

[Jane_Smith]

I vote Arcane.

[Llama231]

No one likes Divine? With primal and nature as separate categories, only the cleric and paladin have divine, and not even the monk.

[Theodoric]

No one likes Divine? With primal and nature as separate categories, only the cleric and paladin have divine, and not even the monk.
Never eard of the Avenger and Invoker?

[Llama231]

Nope, but I still want divine anyway.

[Xallace]

Make mine Martial!

[erikun]

I'm curious as to where this is going. Martial.

[mikeejimbo]

Aww... I like Divine classes myself.

Though the only thing we're missing is a Martial Controller, I believe. And we have TWO Arcane Strikers.

[SwordGoddess]

I think I'll go for Martial. I'm more partial to those types of classes, myself.

[Dancing_Zephyr]

Chalk up another one for Martial.

[Vadin]

ARCANE! ROOOOAAAR!

I want a class that magically develops the powers of various types of beasts!

Alternatively, this could be PRIMAL!

[Gralamin]

Martial has a problem - Its focus is on a single target damage. Lets make this a bit different with some Divine.

[i see u]

Arcane

Make it something that does alot of damage (like the warmage of 3.5)

[Ichneumon]

Martial, let's make something that has an archetype without it being someone who has some other type of magic. I'm thinking pirate, swashbuckler, duelist for strikers or someting like that.

[SwordGoddess]

Martial, let's make something that has an archetype without it being someone who has some other type of magic. I'm thinking pirate, swashbuckler, duelist for strikers or someting like that.

...I like how you think. Particularly the first two suggestions.

[Mando Knight]

Martial, let's make something that has an archetype without it being someone who has some other type of magic. I'm thinking pirate, swashbuckler, duelist for strikers or someting like that.

Trick arrow archer, a la Green Arrow, I'd say.

[Rigon]

i say Primal something which would work as a PC skirmisher

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Well, looks as this is going Martial, but I'm voting Divine.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Let's see:

Martial:9
Divine:3
Arcane:4
Primal:2

I don't want to use Psionics, because PH3 isn't out yet.
And so far, the clear winner is Martial at this point. But I won't call it until tomorrow at 3:00 pm.

[alchemyprime]

I think a Martial class would be welcome, especially if it were Int or Cha based. Not a Leader, but maybe a Controller (something akin to the 3.5 swordsage and the 4e druid comes to mind...)

[mikeejimbo]

I see 4 votes for Divine, not 3.

On the other hand, Martial is going to win either way, just saying...

[Mike_the_Mystic]

I see 4 votes for Divine, not 3.

On the other hand, Martial is going to win either way, just saying...

He posted right as I did, my bad.

[mikeejimbo]

He posted right as I did, my bad.

Ah, I should have checked the timestamps. I figured, actually, that I had made a mistake of counting someone twice by accident. Either way, go Divine, woo.

[Mercenary Pen]

I vote Primal

[ErrantX]

My vote goes to a Martial controller type as well. Swordsage was mentioned and I immediately was hoping we could build one.

-X

[dragoonsgone]

martial controller sounds fun so ill vote for martial

[R. Shackleford]

I'm going Marital controller too.

[Shevarash's_Son]

i would go for martial

[Burley]

My vote is Martial. Hopefully, I'll remember this thread and vote in the future.

Also, back in the first post, you said the voting would end on June 31st, which isn't a day. (30 days hath September, April, June and November. All the rest have 31, except for February.)

[Gawaeyn]

Arcane, says I!

Perhaps a proper arcane archer?

[lesser_minion]

I'm going Marital controller too.

Is this a write-in I see before me?

I'd pick Martial, although a 'marital controller' sounds like it might be fun.

[Burley]

Is this a write-in I see before me?

I'd pick Martial, although a 'marital controller' sounds like it might be fun.
:smallamused:
Weapon Proficiency: Ball & Chain
At-Wills: Tie the Knot, Death Stare
Encounter: Passive Aggressive Tone
Daily: "You're Stupid Like Your Father"
Utility: Stew (Lets you stay up all night, in the dark, as long as you're waiting for that cheatin' lowlife)

This would probably be a Divine class, though, because of the Holier-than-thou attitude.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Oh snap, Totally forgot!!:smallredface:

Votes

Martial:14
Divine:4
Primal:3
Arcane:5

Looks like martial wins by a landslide! Yay!!!

Now let's pick a role, and I know a bunch of you are itching for Controller, but say so again, just for clarification.

Do you want a:

Leader
Defender
Striker
Controller

Next deadline is saturday, July Third. Sunday, July 5th at 5:00 pm.

Let the Voting...BEGIN!!

[RTGoodman]

I'm gonna go with Striker.


Next deadline is saturday, July Third.

Er... this Saturday is July FOURTH, not the 3rd. Just a heads-up.

[R. Shackleford]

Martial Controller.

[dragoonsgone]

Controller. Wanna see how this plays out bad.

[mikeejimbo]

Controller of course!

[Gralamin]

Might as well go with Controller Since Martial doesn't have one.

[Vadin]

A horse is a horse, of course, of course, unless it's Mister Ed Leader!

[erikun]

Let's vote up a Leader. Warlord is interesting, but I'm curious what else we can come up with. :smallamused:

[Mando Knight]

The Fat Controller.

[alchemyprime]

Controller

Why? Because while most martial controllers are all about traps or are the Green Arrow, I think someone like the Doctor is the way to go. You aren't just controlling the battlefield you're controlling the world. A Martial Controller that does things purely by figuring them out and improvising.

Want to mess with that Troglodyte Shaman? Screw up his spells by cutting his ligaments or messing with his staff. The balor? Make him explode on himself.

Wow... its like the Doctor and the Repo Man at the same time...

[Mando Knight]

Xanatos planned this class. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosPlannedThisIndex) :smalltongue:

[Vadin]

If this class could end up emulating Dr.Who, you would win at least one internet.

[Shadow_Elf]

I'll throw my lot in with the Controller crowd, and hope that it finds a way to emulate the good Doctor.

[Alteran]

Controllerwhynot?

[Shevarash's_Son]

Leader it would be interesting to make a new warlord... the Samurai

[Burley]

I'm gonna go against my better instincts and go with my best insticts.
Controller my life, Beautiful!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Controller. You knew it was coming.

[lesser_minion]

I think it's going to have to be a Controller

@ R. Shackleford - sorry about that.

[Caen'ir]

Controller. I want to see how this turns out. :smallsmile:

[Sereg]

I also wish to see what a martial controller looks like.

[Arcane Copycat]

I think we need more Strikers


Alright, alright, Controller.

I've been looking forward to one for a while now...

[SwordGoddess]

I guess it's Controller by a landslide (or it looks like it's going that way).

[AgentPaper]

I'll throw in a vote for Controller too.

Also, as a tip, I learned from my last attempt at this very same idea (vote up a 4E class) that making a class in 4th edition just can't be done by one person in any reasonable amount of time. In that vein, I'll put myself forward as someone interested in helping. (especially since I love the idea of a martial controller)

[Mike_the_Mystic]

I'll throw in a vote for Controller too.

Also, as a tip, I learned from my last attempt at this very same idea (vote up a 4E class) that making a class in 4th edition just can't be done by one person in any reasonable amount of time. In that vein, I'll put myself forward as someone interested in helping. (especially since I love the idea of a martial controller)

I accept your help!:smallbiggrin:

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Bump.

Just about a day and two hours left of voting. It looks like a martial controller is where we're heading, but we may have a surprise or two.

Probably Not, Though.

So yeah, vote some more. Once again, deadline is tomorrow, July 5th at 5 PM.

[Ichneumon]

Controller would be cool, although I think it would be difficult.

I think we should think of an archtype first before choosing a role.
I still want my pirate swashbuckler...

[Talyn]

Martial controller, definitely.

I want to see a wrestler-type controller - literally, the guy controls the battlefield by pushing, tripping, and THROWING his opponents and the environment all over the damn place.

[Yakk]

I'm hoping for a Martial, Intelligence-based, Duelist-controller.

Int sub Dex leans Defender (Swashbuckler).
Int sub Cha leans Striker (Dashing Swordsman).

(And this is an actual vote for controller).

[Mando Knight]

I want a Chessmaster. Really, what kind of better controller is there than a guy in the vein of Xanatos and Mitth'raw'nuruodo?

[R. Shackleford]

I'm still a nublet at this, but what would the next logical thing to vote for here?

If this were Magic, we'd have the color and card type down...

[Fredthefighter]

Defender


:smallbiggrin:

[RebelRogue]

Like most other people, I'd really like to see a Martial Controller too. Something focussed on debuffing seems like the way to go.

[Ichneumon]

Like most other people, I'd really like to see a Martial Controller too. Something focussed on debuffing seems like the way to go.

Wouldn't that be more like a negative-leader? Controllers are more about controling the battlefield, in my view.

[Shadow_Elf]

Wouldn't that be more like a negative-leader? Controllers are more about controling the battlefield, in my view.

Debuffing is one of the methods of battlefield control, however. Using existing controllers as examples, the wizard does its control through targeted debuffing and AOE damage, while the Invoker focuses on AOE debuffing and sumoning/terrain alteration. The Druid makes good use of positioning, melee/ranged versatility and forced movement, as well as targeted debuffing. So, debuffing is really a very essential part of the Controller role.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Yaarg! Yesterday was a killer, I'm afraid. But It looks like controller wins by a landslide, with at least 20 votes. Now that we've decided on a Martial Controller, We'll need to vote on the Key Abilities we want this class to use.

The Abilities are:
Constitiution
Strength
Wisdom
Intelligence
Dexterity
Charisma

Pick the Three you want to have, and the top three will become the three we'll use.

Voting ends on Thursday, July 9th. Voting begins now.

[Arcane Copycat]

Str
Cha
Wis

Manipulating people's movements physically with pulls, pushes and slides, anticipating what your enemy is going to do, tricking your opponents into making bad decisions, that's what I'm seeing

[Shevarash's_Son]

Str
Dex
Wis

[SwordGoddess]

Str
Dex
Cha

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Dex
Cha
Int

I love me some Swashbucklers!

[mikeejimbo]

Int
Con
Cha


Intelligence improves quite a few good skills, as well as your reflex defense. Constitution applies to your Hit Points and your fortitude, although there is only one skill with it. Charisma has a bunch of associated skills and also applies to your will. No redundant ability scores, whee!

[Vadin]

Strength
Dexterity
Charisma

Now that is a non-redundant and swashbuckling stat array!

[RTGoodman]

Str
Dex
Int

[Ichneumon]

Dex
Str
Cha

For swashbuckling power!

Also, I think we should agree on a theme. It seems the general consensus seems to go to swushbuckling-ness, althouh I'm biased, but we need to make sure of a concept before we start creating a class with no theme holding it together accept for "Martial controller based on str and dex".

[Mando Knight]

Int
Dex
Cha
Mostly Intelligence. I require Chessmaster.

[Ichneumon]

Int
Dex
Cha
Mostly Intelligence. I require Chessmaster.

See, this is what I mean. Although I have nothing against the concept of a chessmaster, I even like it, I think we should choose a theme before choosing the stats as these stats would make little sense on a swashbuckler and STR would make little sense on a Chessmaster.

[Yakk]

Int
Cha
Dex
Swash my buckle!

[ScIaDrd]

Wis
[PHP]Str[/B]
Cha I would like to see a cunning manipulator, who is able to confuse his enemies with guile and sublety and then strike hard. :smallwink:

Darn I can´t read. It ´s a Controller, not a Striker:smalleek:
So, then:
Wis
Int
Cha

[Vadin]

A duelist or Doctor Who (weird effects but not magical ones, just very clever ones)- if either of those are the end result of this class, I will be incredibly pleased.

[Alteran]

Strength
Dexterity
Intelligence

[cliffiepizza]

Str
Dex
Con

[alchemyprime]

Int
Dex
Cha
Mostly Intelligence. I require Chessmaster.

Int
Cha
Dex

I want my Doctor!

Intelligence to bring the pain.

Charisma to talk the enemy into walking away before anything bad happens.

And Dexterity to dodge while trying to plan.

I think a few quotes are needed.

Rose: Who are you then? Who's that lot down there? [The Doctor ignores her] I said who are they?!
The Doctor: They're made of plastic. Living plastic creatures. They're being controlled by a relay device on the roof. Which would be a great big problem if- [he pulls a bleeping bomb out of his coat] -I didn't have this. So I'm gonna go upstairs and blow it up. And I might well die in the process. But don't worry about me, no. You go home, go on! Go and have your lovely beans on toast. [suddenly serious] Don't tell anyone about this 'cos if you do, you'll get them killed. [closes the door] [opens it again] I'm The Doctor, by the way. What's your name?
Rose: Rose.
The Doctor: Nice to meet you, Rose. [holds up the bomb, grinning.] Run for your life!


The Doctor: [After dispatching the Sycorax Leader with use of a satsuma] No second chances. I'm that sort of a man.


And perhaps the best way to sum up the idea I got going.


Dalek 1: [glances at Rose] We have your associate. You will obey or she will be exterminated!
The Doctor: No.
[Pause. The Daleks glance at each other in confusion.]
Dalek 1: Explain yourself!
The Doctor: I said no.
Dalek 1: What is the meaning of this negative?
The Doctor: It means no.
Dalek 1: But she will be destroyed!
The Doctor: No! 'Cause this is what I'm going to do: I'm going to rescue her! I'm going to save Rose Tyler from the middle of the Dalek fleet! And then I'm going to save the Earth! And then, just to finish off, I'm going to wipe every last stinking Dalek out of the sky!
Dalek 1: But you have no weapons! No defenses! No plan!
The Doctor: Yeah! And doesn't that scare you to death?

[Vadin]

That last line there is my absolute favorite quite from Dr. Who.

[Gralamin]

Str
Con
Int

Something different and new!

[Fredthefighter]

Str
Wis
Con

[Sequinox]

Strength
Charisma
Wisdom

I've got no clue where that's leading, but I like it.

[Rigon]

Int
Dex
Wis

Edit: I would prefer ranged weapons (bow, crossbow, darts, throwing weapons)

[Shadow_Elf]

CHA
DEX
INT

Chessmaster Duelist! Woo!

[Mando Knight]

We want a Controller, which tries to control the entire battlefield. A duelist would fight a single opponent. Those two concepts don't fit.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Indeed. Perhaps we should make a grenadier, someone who likes to throw around incindiaries (Sp?) or some other aoe weapon.

[erikun]

Funny, I've actually been considering making a martial controller recently. It'd either be a Dervish (run into battle and take control of everything around yourself) or a Grenadier (make stuff, throw it at people).

Anyways:
Dex
Int
Cha

I'm just curious as to what kind of monstrosity will come out of this. :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

Trick Archer + Chessmaster. At-wills would include an AoE burst of arrow fire, and a positioning shot. He knocks the foes into spots where he wants 'em, then lets the Fighter have them. Or else he shoots the Orc's tendons, making him hobble around while the Rogue runs up to stab him in the back. Focus primarily on powers that hinder or force enemy movement, then punish them for it. Y'know, "Heads I win, Tails you lose."

"Move here, Orc, or I shoot you."
"Thank you for falling into the trap, Orc."

And...

"Just as planned."

[Ninetail]

Oh, come on. Obviously, if we're concentrating on things that are underrepresented in the core, then the primary ability should be CON. It needs some love!

Secondaries, I vote CHA and WIS. Mostly just to see what you can come up with that uses Con, Cha, and Wis.

[Burley]

Int
Str
Cha

No Redundancy, and perfect for the Martial Arts (not the psionic kind...)

"In a world where no one in forgiving, young Marty McOntroller is the butt of all the jokes. Walked over, pushed around, and bullied by his peers, nothing was going his way. Until one day, he decides to change that...
"'You're a Wizard, Harry!'
"'My name's not Harry...'
"'Oh... Oops...'
~Sqwuisheeeew~
"From the makers of Fantasy Movie and Fantasy Movie 2: Air Bugbear, comes Martial Controller Movie.
"'I'm gonna go to school and train really hard, while keeping my massive intellect intact. Also, because I'll find my niche there and become extremely strong in a seemingly impossible amount of time, the girls will flock to me, forcing me to tap into my hidden pocket of nice-guy-charm!'
"Martial Controller Movie coming soon to a select theatre in Jersey."
~Sqwuisheeew~
"'Oh Gods... I hate Parrots!'"
Sorry... I couldn't resist... :smalltongue:

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Int
Str
Cha

No Redundancy, and perfect for the Martial Arts (not the psionic kind...)

"In a world where no one in forgiving, young Marty McOntroller is the butt of all the jokes. Walked over, pushed around, and bullied by his peers, nothing was going his way. Until one day, he decides to change that...
"'You're a Wizard, Harry!'
"'My name's not Harry...'
"'Oh... Oops...'
~Sqwuisheeeew~
"From the makers of Fantasy Movie and Fantasy Movie 2: Air Bugbear, comes Martial Controller Movie.
"'I'm gonna go to school and train really hard, while keeping my massive intellect intact. Also, because I'll find my niche there and become extremely strong in a seemingly impossible amount of time, the girls will flock to me, forcing me to tap into my hidden pocket of nice-guy-charm!'
"Martial Controller Movie coming soon to a select theatre in Jersey."
~Sqwuisheeew~
"'Oh Gods... I hate Parrots!'"
Sorry... I couldn't resist... :smalltongue:

Well, to tell you the truth, A Martial Arts master is a controller, at least in the movies. Every time one of them just shows up in a dudes dojo/drug cartel planning room/martial arts tournament, all the mooks stand around in a circle and go at him one at a time, or two at a time, or sometimes three or four at a time. And he almost always kicks All. Their. Asses.

However, I would like this discussion to go to another thread. I was thinking once the voting was done I'd make a thread to do all the stuff we can't really vote on, like powers and stuff like that.

[Shevarash's_Son]

the class will in my opinion be either a person who makes thousands of attacks a person who has his allies attack or a person who throws lots and lots of stuff

[Rigon]

as i already posted... i'm for a ranged type of controller. explanation in spoiler so i don't get "double counted".i would prefer a sort of marker character who would mark enemies for his party(effects like hunters parry or curse), lure enemies (push/pull/slide) or throw effects (literally) at her opponents. i would ban charisma, as professional soldiers aren't exactly fancy nor inspiring. so int for planning, dex for performance and wis for crisis handling.

[KaynDarksbane]

Dex
Int
Cha

Here's hoping for a Swashbuckler type!

[Caen'ir]

Intelligence
Charisma
Dexterity

[dragoonsgone]

int
str
cha

[Aithereal]

Just to be difficult, a martial class with:

Wisdom
Intelligence
Charisma

As the three main stats, a true tactitian, thoughtful, knowledgable and a good leader, who needs to be physical when you are a martial controller?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

We want a Controller, which tries to control the entire battlefield. A duelist would fight a single opponent. Those two concepts don't fit.

Untrue. Have you ever seen a good Swashbuckler film? The old Zorro films, Douglas Fairbanks films, and so on? The heroes of such films often hold off several if not dozens of enemies, dance around the batlefield, and generally dominate the field of combat singlehandedly. True, a single duelist wouldn't really be a controller...but a movie-caliber Swashbuckler definitely can.

[Vadin]

Alternatively, Dr.Who is always a valid option as well. [/fingers crossed]

[Mando Knight]

True, a single duelist wouldn't really be a controller...but a movie-caliber Swashbuckler definitely can.

And that's what I was addressing. A duelist, by definition, duels. He doesn't control. A Zorro-esque swashbuckler who fights a dozen foes at once and comes out on top could be a controller, but then he's not being a duelist.

I think Swashbuckler should be one build of the class, but probably not the entire class to itself.

[Godric]

Strength
Intelligence
Wisdom

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Okay, let's count up the votes:

Str:14
Cha:19
Wis:9
Int:18
Dex:16
Con:5

So the Big three are:

Charisma
Intellect
Dexterity

Now that this is out of the way, let's see what we've got so far:

A Martial Controller who relies on Charisma, Intellect and Dexterity to use his abilities.

Now, what do we need next?

Well, The last thing I'm going to let you vote on is a Name. But first, we're going to get some Ideas. One of the options I heard was Swashbuckler, but I'll let you decide, first five names that sound good will be the ones we'll vote on.

Name suggestion ends on saturday, July 11th, and voting on the name ends on tuesday, July 14th.

[Mando Knight]

Battlemaster. Because buckling swash can't be the only thing they're good at.

[AgentPaper]

Strategist

A martial controller, via MINIONS!

[mikeejimbo]

Swashbuckler because when you buckle swashes really well, you don't need anything else.

(And yes, this is an idea, not a class name. We could name it Dread Pirate, after all.)

[SwordGoddess]

Swashbuckler. arrrrrr

[Alteran]

Swordsage? Are we allowed to use names from other editions?

[RTGoodman]

Gunslinger. It'd be Dex primary, with an Int-secondary build (Tactical Gunslinger) or a Cha-secondary build (Controlling Gunslinger).

[Yakk]

Using Thesaurus, I get...

Daredevil
Braggadocio
Blatherskite
Braggart
Rascal --- ooo I like that one.

Hmm. Swashbuckler with Foolhardy, Daredevil, Rascal and Dashing options?

Int primary, Dex(Foolhardy, Daredevil), Cha(Rascal, Dashing)?

Or even a class called Rascal.

[Shadow_Elf]

Fencer? I dunno, I like Mando's suggestion of Battlemaster, as it leaves room for ranged and melee options.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Well, I really like the suggestion of swashbuckler, although I'm interested in other options too. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Tactician. Problem is, part of this ground is already covered by Warlord, thematically.

[Gralamin]

Battlemaster, Because as Mando Knight indicates, it sounds awesome.

[Alteran]

Int primary, Dex(Foolhardy, Daredevil), Cha(Rascal, Dashing)?


Really? Int primary for a martial class? That doesn't make sense at all. How do you wield a sword with your intelligence? Maybe it helps you figure out what to do, but in the end it would be your strength or dexterity doing the fancy moves. I very much dislike using mental ability scores as the attack stats for physical classes. It's like the Avenger - how is wisdom the most relevant score to their fighting? They're divine, so I suppose you could play up the "My god guides this blade" part, but it still seems unrealistic.

Sorry for the mini-rant, this is a sensitive topic for me.


Fencer? I dunno, I like Mando's suggestion of Battlemaster, as it leaves room for ranged and melee options.

Battlemaster is a nice name, but I can't help think of a Warlord when I hear it.

[Vadin]

Rascal is a great name for a class that relies on Charisma, but it might sound better as a build option for the Captain/Champion. The other build option, of course, would be the Expert, the Int-based option.

Either way, I want lots of status effects!

[R. Shackleford]

Magnificent Bastard

Because he pulls everyone's strings, and isn't afraid to take a punch to get the reactions he need.

[Ichneumon]

I like the name of Swashbuckler. It seems we are going for a martial controllers, someone who controls crouds of enemies. The term Swashbuckler is familiar to almost everyone and summons the right idea immediately. Altough people might have different ideas on what a warlock or cleric or swordssage is, everybody has the right idea of a swashbuckler!:smallbiggrin:

[Yakk]

Really? Int primary for a martial class? That doesn't make sense at all. How do you wield a sword with your intelligence?
He fights by the book - W.S.

[Burley]

I think we should call it the Marshal.

Or, we could have something that is more rogue-like than the rogue. Perhaps an incredibly sneaky martial class? Who uses enemies against enemies. Perhaps having powers that make enemy1 attack enemy2? I'm getting ahead of myself here, but maybe we don't need any more Big Armor Guys.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Oh, I like Marshal. That's probably the word I was looking for.

(On the earlier swordfighting-with-Intelligence: Swordmage)

[alchemyprime]

Strategist like the Doctor.

[Fredthefighter]

Lord of Steel

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Swashbuckler for me.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Battlemaster is pretty Bad A$$, But yeah, it does sound like a warlord
Swashbuckler sounds good, a bit cliche, but good
Rascal sounds like an npc class, but it could work
I like Magnificent Bastard, I like it alot:smallamused:
Swordsage sounds like somebody with a high Wis score, but it might work as well.

I see your point Alteran, perhaps dexterity's gonna have to be the primary stat. However I also see Yakk's point as well. We're leaning toward a class who fights with his head as much as fighting with his blade.

[Alteran]

I see your point Alteran, perhaps dexterity's gonna have to be the primary stat. However I also see Yakk's point as well. We're leaning toward a class who fights with his head as much as fighting with his blade.

Sure, if "fighting with his head" is separate from "fighting with his blade" then I have no problem. It's when mental stats are used for weapon attacks that I have trouble playing along.

[mikeejimbo]

I like the idea of Dexterity for his primary stat, with Intelligence (for the for the strategist/tactician build) and Charisma (for the sauve swashbuckler) as secondaries.

Or something like that.

Of course, choosing Dex + Int means you double up on one of your save stats, leaving you weak elsewhere. Maybe make Cha primary, and Dex and Int secondaries to offset this? Or am I just getting silly?

[AgentPaper]

Sure, if "fighting with his head" is separate from "fighting with his blade" then I have no problem. It's when mental stats are used for weapon attacks that I have trouble playing along.

If he's all about hitting them in the right spot, at the right time, I wouldn't see any problem with using intelligence to find the right time to strike for +hit and the right place to strike for +damage. Strength creates an opportunity by force, dexterity strikes fast when one shows itself, and intelligence figures out when an opportunity is going to present itself, and puts the blade where it needs to be to do the most damage.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Sure, if "fighting with his head" is separate from "fighting with his blade" then I have no problem. It's when mental stats are used for weapon attacks that I have trouble playing along.

Agreed.

Perhaps a (Dashing Scoundrel/Cunning Duelist) Swashbuckler. The Dashing Scoundrel would be a sub Defender, using his charismatic presence on the battlefield to draw foes towards him, frighten them off, and keep them from his allies. The Cunning Duelist would be a sub Striker, attacking with great precision and using his combat abilities to anticipate his foes foes and then lock them down.

[KaynDarksbane]

Perhaps a (Dashing Scoundrel/Cunning Duelist) Swashbuckler. The Dashing Scoundrel would be a sub Defender, using his charismatic presence on the battlefield to draw foes towards him, frighten them off, and keep them from his allies. The Cunning Duelist would be a sub Striker, attacking with great precision and using his combat abilities to anticipate his foes foes and then lock them down.

Yes, yes and YES!

This is precisely what I was thinking!

Another vote for Swashbuckler!

[AgentPaper]

Agreed.

Perhaps a (Dashing Scoundrel/Cunning Duelist) Swashbuckler. The Dashing Scoundrel would be a sub Defender, using his charismatic presence on the battlefield to draw foes towards him, frighten them off, and keep them from his allies. The Cunning Duelist would be a sub Striker, attacking with great precision and using his combat abilities to anticipate his foes foes and then lock them down.

This seems far more unrealistic than being more likely to hit and doing more damage due to your intellect...:smallconfused::smallamused:

Anyways, while I probably won't be voting for it, I can't say I would be entirely disappointed if it won.

[Shevarash's_Son]

battle master

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Okay, the four I picked are:

Battlemaster
Strategist
Swashbuckler
Rascal

Like I said before, Voting for the Name ends on Tuesday, July 14th.

[Fredthefighter]

Rascal

It just sounds like The Doctor to me.

Yes, I want a Doctor Who class. :smallbiggrin:

[AgentPaper]

Strategist

I hope everyone knew that we weren't actually voting for names before, just coming up with them. :smallwink:

[Vadin]

The Rascal!

[Mando Knight]

Battlemaster. 'Cause combat is just one giant game of chess (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster).

[BarroomBard]

I'm partial to Magnificent Bastard. I like the image of him using psychology and trickery to control the enemy.

[Gralamin]

Battlemaster

[Alteran]

I hope everyone knew that we weren't actually voting for names before, just coming up with them. :smallwink:

Yep. :smalltongue:

[i see u]

Battlemaster

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Magnificent Bastard. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)

It just doesn't get any more accurate than that. The Battlemaster sounds like a Warlord 2.0 and the Rascal sounds like a cute nickname for the party Rogue. No... just being able to say, with a knowing grin, that you rolled up a Magnificent Bastard is all the reason anyone should need.

[Shadow_Elf]

If you'll allow it, I would also like to cast a vote for Magnificent Bastard.

If not, then chalk me up for Battlemaster.

[AgentPaper]

Magnificent Bastard. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)

It just doesn't get any more accurate than that. The Battlemaster sounds like a Warlord 2.0 and the Rascal sounds like a cute nickname for the party Rogue. No... just being able to say, with a knowing grin, that you rolled up a Magnificent Bastard is all the reason anyone should need.

The problem is, Magnificent Bastard just isn't a class. It's a characterization.

[Ichneumon]

The problem is, Magnificent Bastard just isn't a class. It's a characterization.

Indeed, but I think it would still be preferable over something as "Battlemaster", which has no origin at all except containing the world "Master" and "Battle"... I vote for Magnificent Bastard! Give me my, swashbuckling hero!>

[Yakk]

Swashbuckler

We should definitely have a run off between the top 2.

[Ichneumon]

Swashbuckler

We should definitely have a run off between the top 2.

If we do that, than I would like to change my vote to Swashbuckler.

[Vic_Sage]

Magnificent Bastard

[AgentPaper]

Indeed, but I think it would still be preferable over something as "Battlemaster", which has no origin at all except containing the world "Master" and "Battle"... I vote for Magnificent Bastard! Give me my, swashbuckling hero!>

Which doesn't change the fact that "Magnificent Bastard" just isn't a class. It'd be like trying to make a "Plucky Hero" class. It's just not what it is.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

The problem is, Magnificent Bastard just isn't a class. It's a characterization.

Is that right? Well, darn it all, I guess we can't have barbarians or rogues either. :smalltongue:

I've already stated my distaste for Battlemaster and Rascal, so now it's the Swashbuckler's turn. I have a problem with the name for similar reasons to Rascal only in relation to the party Fighter rather than the Rogue.

[Ichneumon]

It also doesn't change that I think we should first agree on a concept and theme for the class before we should choose a name.

[Mando Knight]

Indeed, but I think it would still be preferable over something as "Battlemaster", which has no origin at all except containing the world "Master" and "Battle"

It does too! It's meant to evoke Chessmaster (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster), and Badassery, and awesome. :smalltongue:

[Ichneumon]

It does too! It's meant to evoke Chessmaster (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster), and Badassery, and awesome. :smalltongue:

I think a chess-based class would be cool, but we need to decide it first before we choose a name and ability scores.

[Mando Knight]

But that goes against the spirit of Vote Up A Whatever threads! We're supposed to make weird stuff that's next to impossible to get to mesh together properly! :smalltongue:

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I like the idea of a Chessmaster class a LOT, but I also would think that the name is much better suited to a Psionic Leader/Controller.

My mind's eye sees a Martial Controller as someone who treats the emotions of others as the battlefield upon which to give themselves, and their minions (i.e. the party), the advantage. Anger cripples a person's higher brain functions, paranoia makes them lash out at those close to them, fear leads to rash decision-making. In short, the character is a Magnificent Bastard.

[AgentPaper]

Is that right? Well, darn it all, I guess we can't have barbarians or rogues either. :smalltongue:

Except "Barbarian" and "Rogue" aren't characterizations. If you said "Noble Savage" and "Loveable Rogue", then I'd agree that you can't have a class based off of those.

I'm just wondering what the heck type of powers you would give to a "Magnificent Bastard". There's just no fighting style that can be associated with it.

[Mando Knight]

I'd like to think of Magnificent Bastard being an Int/Cha build of the class.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Hey there Mando, I actually like the sound of that! Turn Cha into the primary class stat with Dex and Int being the secondary traits based on build.

(Dex) Daring Scoundrel (Based on combat stunts and tricks.)
(Int) Magnificent Bastard Scoundrel (Based on mind games.)

[Jogi]

Maybe something related to the Feint feat?
Im don't have a great knowledge of feats but I remember seing this feat on NWN2, and I remember it was somewhat related to this class. Maybe we could have go something like Feintmaster?

If not, well I like the Chessmaster

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Only names that I've stated are to be voted on, thank you.

However Magnificent Bastard will be the name of a Paragon Path, I promise you.

[Mando Knight]

However Magnificent Bastard will be the name of a Paragon Path, I promise you.

Makes sense. First you gotta be a basic Chessmaster-wannabe, then once you've messed with a couple thousand peoples' lives, then (and only then) can you begin to claim Magnificent Bastardy.

[AgentPaper]

I would actually vote for Chessmaster as a paragon path, with Magnificent Bastard as an Epic Destiny. :smalltongue:

[R. Shackleford]

Only names that I've stated are to be voted on, thank you.

However Magnificent Bastard will be the name of a Paragon Path, I promise you.

I am sated!

[cliffiepizza]

i like Strategist

[mikeejimbo]

Buckle my Swashes! Swashbuckler

[Burley]

I guess I'll go with Swashbuckler... Just to see where this is going.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Looks like Swashbuckler is going to take it.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Actually, its a three-way tie between Battlemaster, Swashbuckler and...Magnificent Bastard...

For a name that was put off the table, it got as many votes as those that were. For that, it deserves to be one of the choices.

So, the Three choices are:

Battlemaster
Swashbuckler
Magnificent Bastard

Voting ends on saturday, July 17th

Go nuts.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Swashbuckler!

[Shadow_Elf]

Magnificent Bastard!

[mikeejimbo]

Swashbuckler

[AgentPaper]

Can I change my vote from Strategist to Battlemaster?

[erikun]

Well, I didn't get to come up with a name, but I'm lousey at making names anyways. :smallwink: I think that Battlemaster captures the essence of a Martial Controller best.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Yes you can change your vote at this point because it is a revote.

[Crossfiyah]

Battlemaster but I think they're all terrible names

We have absolutely no concept yet, and for that, this is going to fail. Swashbuckler only works if we decided we wanted that style of person, and Battlemaster just sounds bad. Magnificent Bastard would work if it was actually at all related to this, but it isn't.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

If you're gonna be negative, then go away. I want positive attitudes on mah threads.:smallannoyed:

[cliffiepizza]

i vote Battlemaster

[mikeejimbo]

Battlemaster but I think they're all terrible names

We have absolutely no concept yet, and for that, this is going to fail. Swashbuckler only works if we decided we wanted that style of person, and Battlemaster just sounds bad. Magnificent Bastard would work if it was actually at all related to this, but it isn't.

Well, I thought that the concept and name would rather coincide, here.

[erikun]

I agree that the name would normally be better left until the class is fleshed out, but naming it now can help guide the creation of the class along. After all, the "Dexterity Intelligence Charisma Martial Controller" doesn't really spark much of the imagination.

At least you know there will be different ideas for the Swashbuckler than there would be for the Magnificient Bastard.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

I chose to vote on the name last because that's pretty much the last thing we're voting on. After this, we're going to a seperate threat to flesh everything out.

[Gralamin]

Battlemaster

[alchemyprime]

Battlemaster

[dragoonsgone]

Battlemaster with Swashbuckler and Magnificent bastard both being paragon paths.

[Yakk]

Buckle me Swashbucklers.

Note that there is a fundamental difference between a Controller and a Defender. A Defender encourages targets to attack the Defender rather than allies.

A Controller doesn't.

So I'm thinking striker-like melee mobility mixed with debuffs, immobilisation powers. Using weapons as martial implements (!). Psychic (you killed my father, prepare to die) martial attacks!

Buckle me Swashes
At Will - Standard Action, Implement, Psychic
Effect: Shift your move
Targets: Any enemies adjacent to you during the shift
Attack: Dex vs Will
Hit: Target is slowed and takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next turn
Special: On a critical, target is also dazed until the end of your next turn

Take your Measure:
A Swashbuckler has the Measure of any target the Swashbuckler has attacked until the end of the Swashbuckler's next turn. When a Swashbuckler has your measure, you take a Swashbucker's Int bonus penalty to hit a Swashbuckler with any melee attack.

[SwordGoddess]

Swashbuckler. Battlemaster sounds corny to me ears.

Arrr.

[Alteran]

Swashbuckler for me!

[AgentPaper]

Psychic (you killed my father, prepare to die) martial attacks!

You seem to be mistaking "Martial" for "Melee". You can't have a a psychic martial attack any more than you could have an arcane divine attack.

[Gralamin]

You seem to be mistaking "Martial" for "Melee". You can't have a a psychic martial attack any more than you could have an arcane divine attack.

You seem to be the one making the mistake.
A Psychic martial attack is simply attacking morale (Which HP is partially).

[Mando Knight]

You seem to be mistaking "Martial" for "Melee". You can't have a a psychic martial attack any more than you could have an arcane divine attack.

You can have a psychic martial attack, you just couldn't have a Psionic Martial attack.

[Don the Bastard]

Swashbuckler

With Magnificent Bastard as a build option

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Swashbuckler: 6
Battlemaster: 6
Magnificent Bastard:1

Dammit. Alright I'm just gonna choose via dice. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6521373&posted=1#post6521373)

Battlemaster wins.

[Gralamin]

Rolling doesn't work on this section of the board.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Rolling doesn't work on this section of the board.

As I've noticed. I linked the diceroll thread.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Swashbuckler: 6
Battlemaster: 6
Magnificent Bastard:1

Dammit. Alright I'm just gonna choose via dice. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6521373&posted=1#post6521373)

Battlemaster wins.

Feh. Now I have to go make my own 4e Swashbuckler.

Ah well.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Feh. Now I have to go make my own 4e Swashbuckler.

Ah well.

Don't leave yet, because...Here's the link to the new thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6521421#post6521421)

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Don't leave yet, because...Here's the link to the new thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6521421#post6521421)

See, you'd have convinced me...if the Battlemaster interested me in the least. I'll admit that the name sparks absolutely no interest for me at all...I think that all the Martial classes should be masters of battle in their own right. So I may stop by, but not for long...unless you guys really surprise me.

Which, knowing this forum, you might. :smallbiggrin:

[Ichneumon]

I think I'll have to pass as well, I don't think Battlemaster is a real good name and is actually quite meaningless, it has no theme and no flavor.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I think I'll have to pass as well, I don't think Battlemaster is a real good name and is actually quite meaningless, it has no theme and no flavor.

Hey...care to stat up a Swashbuckler? I'm sure we could find at least a few other people on the forums willing to lend a hand...

[Alteran]

I'll keep participating, but I'm also not crazy about the name. If anything, it sounds like a Warlord variant to me.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Well I guess we could change the name, seeing how everyone despises it.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

If it is changed, Swashbuckler seems to be the crowd favorite.

[mikeejimbo]

Well I guess we could change the name, seeing how everyone despises it.

Remember that just as many people wanted Battlemaster as Swashbuckler. Even though I wanted Swashbuckler, that's not quite fair to the people who wanted Battlemaster.

Just playing devil's advocate.

[Gralamin]

It came down to look anyways. Either works for me, I just had a preference for battlemaster. If people are going to abandon the class because of a silly thing like a name, then just change it.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Indeed I'm afraid.