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Ascension
2009-06-29, 06:37 PM
So I've been reading the Song of Roland this week. I tried to read it once in the past and found it insufferably boring, but this time around I'm really, really enjoying it. I think it might be a difference in translation... the last one I read was... drier. Anyway, I was just wondering what the Playground's thoughts on the epic might be... La Chanson de Roland... Love it? Hate it? Overwhelmed by neutralness whenever its name is mentioned? Feel free to share your opinions here.

And incidentally, if any of you could direct me to some good Roland/Oliver slash it would be MUCH appreciated.

Mando Knight
2009-06-29, 08:17 PM
And incidentally, if any of you could direct me to some good Roland/Oliver slash it would be MUCH appreciated.

NEVER! :smalltongue:

Oddly, I've never taken the time to read the Song of Roland. I know the basic premise of it, and I know that he's one of Charlemagne's Twelve Peers, which are one of the sources of the Paladin, and probably the reason why the word is associated with the concept of an elite/holy knight. (Paladin comes from Palatine, the hill on which Rome's Imperial Palace was built. Thus, the original Paladins were the elite guards chosen to protect the Palatine Hill. Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, and so gained the right to elect his Paladins)

Ascension
2009-06-29, 08:42 PM
The roots of the D&D Paladin are certainly visible in The Song of Roland. Though Charlemagne and his knights aren't quite as explicitly supernatural (Lay on Hands and/or spellcasting could've saved Roland and Archbishop Turpin at the very least, while the God of Roland is content to let them die), they're decidedly superhuman, and their power is definitely derived from their faith. Ganelon even gives us a pretty good picture of the fallen Paladin, as when he "sware the treason" he "sware his faith away." He gets soundly punished before he gets a chance to start taking levels in Blackguard, though.

JonestheSpy
2009-06-30, 12:53 AM
Read it in college, totally dug it. It was a great class - 'Medieval Epic and Romance'.

I'll just throw in that although people tend to immediately think Roland = Paladin, he was a far cry from the DnD class, the term 'paladin' just being a French term for a kinghtly equivalent. According to my prof - and it still makes sense to me - Roland was a radical individualist, i.e. chaotic; he was an amazingly powerful and skilled warrior, which made him trust too much ini his own abilities. If he'd had some military discipline and blown his famous Horn earlier to signal he was under attack he'd have survived, but he trusted too much in his own strength and thus died.

Charlemagne and Thierry are great examples of DnD style paladins, though - they both put their faith in God and doing the Right Thing and thus triumph over foes that physically should have been their betters.

Ascension
2009-06-30, 02:28 AM
I'd argue that it'd be perfectly acceptable to play a D&D Paladin like Roland, arrogance included, but I suppose you're right that he does get a bit far from the general stereotype of the class.

I didn't really intend this to turn into a Paladin discussion, though, or else I would've put it in the RPG section instead of Media Discussion.

Haarkla
2009-06-30, 06:51 AM
Read it in college, totally dug it. It was a great class - 'Medieval Epic and Romance'.

I'll just throw in that although people tend to immediately think Roland = Paladin, he was a far cry from the DnD class, the term 'paladin' just being a French term for a kinghtly equivalent. According to my prof - and it still makes sense to me - Roland was a radical individualist, i.e. chaotic; he was an amazingly powerful and skilled warrior, which made him trust too much ini his own abilities. If he'd had some military discipline and blown his famous Horn earlier to signal he was under attack he'd have survived, but he trusted too much in his own strength and thus died.

Charlemagne and Thierry are great examples of DnD style paladins, though - they both put their faith in God and doing the Right Thing and thus triumph over foes that physically should have been their betters.

IMO Roland is lawful.

LXXIX
Answers Rolland :"God grant us then the fee!
For our King's sake, we must acquit* ourselves well here;
Man for his lord should suffer great disease,
Most bitter cold endure, and burning heat,
His hair and skin should offer up at need.
Now we must each lay on most hardily,
So evil songs never sung of us shall be.
Pagans are wrong: Christians are right indeed.
Evil example will never come of me."




*absolve, deliver, discharge, vindicate, conduct, deport

http://omacl.org/Roland/r1-87.html

Flame of Anor
2009-07-01, 02:23 AM
In this case "acquit" means "conduct" or "deport", btw.

...also, when is someone going to write the Song of Roland St. Jude? I thought that was what this was going to be--not that I'm unfamiliar with Charlemagnic history or the Chanson, but RSt.J, quite frankly, is a much larger presence on the boards.

chiasaur11
2009-07-01, 02:29 AM
In this case "acquit" means "conduct" or "deport", btw.

...also, when is someone going to write the Song of Roland St. Jude? I thought that was what this was going to be--not that I'm unfamiliar with Charlemagnic history or the Chanson, but RSt.J, quite frankly, is a much larger presence on the boards.

Too epic to write.

Alternate answer: Ever played "Marathon"? (What, you thought the Roland you'd been was the knight?)