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Dhavaer
2006-01-01, 01:59 AM
Spells, created by me, originally on the Wizards boards. Please tell me if you think anything is unbalanced.

Dhavaer
2006-01-01, 02:01 AM
Dhavaer's Dark Replenishing
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: One living creature, either helpless or willing.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
You draw power and vitality from your victim. For all intents and purposes, you count as having rested for eight hours. You heal naturally and may prepare spells. You still may not prepare spells cast in the last eight hours.
Your target becomes exhausted, and gains no benefit from their next eight hours of rest, not even removal of the exhausted condition.
Arcane Focus: A black sapphire or diamond lens, costing no less than 1000gp.

I_Got_This_Name
2006-01-01, 03:08 AM
I don't think its necessarily an evil spell. Sucking just a little life energy out of someone (potentially willing) to sustain yourself without sleep is very little compared to subverting their will (Dominate Person), or to blowing them into tiny, burning bits (Fireball), neither of which are [evil].

Also, it could be buffed to draw food and water too, making them hungry and thirsty (as if they hadn't eaten or drank in the last day).

Finally, I think it might be just a little on the overpowered side at any level in the hands of PCs (who can use it again and again, regardless of level, as long as they have one more slot for it than the number of times they use it in 8 hours) and underpowered for villians (who don't need it). A possible fix would be to only allow it to be cast once every 24 hours, and using it doesn't fix that. Another fix (although not quite as good) would be to require that the creature be the same type, and one size smaller than the caster (at the smallest), then strictly limit the number of humanoid foes that the party is able to tie down (Hold Person + rope or manacles).

Ayana
2006-01-01, 03:17 AM
This is quite underpowered for its level and requirements imo.

A similar spell exists in BoVD. Slow Consumption has an indefinite duration (as long as you touch the subject once per day and the subject is alive - so it could last years with a single casting), the target need not be willing or helpless. For trhe next 24h you get double healing and no need for food, the target gets no healing for that day and takes 1 Con damage. Focus is another spell to be cast on the area (pretty easy and non expensive one) and it is Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 2 spell.

I think this would be suitable as L4 spell if it uses a similar duration (permanent as long as target is touched every 24h or sooner) and 1 CON drain from the target with a 500g focus. Otherwise a L2 if it has to be recast each day with a 100g focus.

-----------------------------------------

Edit: Figured I should explain my reasoning why i consider this underpowered in light of the above post.

- It allows the caster 8 more hours of activity per rest cycle, however it doesn't give more 'power' per rest cycle so per day the caster has the same number of spells / health / etc to expend. d20 is balanced around a certain number of encounters per day, being able to stay up longer can mean more encounters per day effectively stretching PC resources thinner. This would definetely benefit travel or speed of crafting items but neither of those are critical areas (and travel can be accelerated more with various spells such as Phantom Steed, not to mention Teleport)

- As written it only benefits the wizard which is not as much of an advantage if the other people in the party (and the horses) still need to rest every day.

- It requires a hidden, very cumbersome focus - the drainee. You can hope you find one every day, but if you don't you plain wasted that slot (and for a sorc this would be a huge waste of a spell known) with might be better filled with a spell that can actually save your behind. Or you can drag one along - major pain.

Dhavaer
2006-01-01, 04:54 AM
I must say I'm intrigued that it's been described as both under- and overpowered. I understand both arguments, so I'm rather confused as to what to do. I'll leave it as is for now.

Dhavaer
2006-01-01, 04:57 AM
Dhavaer's Exsanguination
Transmutation [Evil]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: Standard Action
Range: Short
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You pull the target's blood out of their body in a painful and gruesome manner. They take 2d4 Constitution damage .

Winged One
2006-01-01, 05:03 AM
Underpowered, at least at lowish levels.

Consider: at level 10, it only deals 5 points of CON damage, while a 4th level Bestow Curse spell is, in addition to being far more versitile, capable of dealing 6 points of CON damage.

EDIT: also, Feeblemind can, with an even more difficult save than your spell, strip a sorcerer or wizard of all but one point in two different ability scores, one of which is almost certainly 18 or higher.

Dhavaer
2006-01-01, 05:34 AM
Bestow Curse gives a Con penalty, so it doesn't stack and can't kill you.
And Con damage is probably one of the best kinds of damage you can deal.
Nevertheless, would you think it would be more reasonable as a 4th level spell?

Ayana
2006-01-01, 09:22 AM
Let's see:
CLR 3, WIZ 4 we got Bestow Curse: more flexibility, can't stack, can't kill, touch range, will save
CLR 4, DRD 3 we got Poison: 1d10+1d10 CON damage after 1min, touch range, fort save
WIZ 4 we got Enervation: 1d4 stackable negative levels with attached penalties, Close range Ray, no save
CORRUPT 5 we got Power Leech: drain 1 ability pt per round for 1rd/cl, choose your-stat, gain the points drained for 10min/cl, Medium range, Will save, 1 Wis drain

- Your spell at L9 when you can get it deals 5 CON damage, and goes up to 10 CON at L18. About 3 casts give or take to kill a target.
- 5 CON is about same as the average roll on Poison's damage. Poison has the followup 1d10 but it's a whole 10 rounds later, but yours has the advantage of being range not touch.
- Enervation needs in average 4-5 casts to kill a same level target, but it has range and it's a no-save ray.
- Power Leech outdoes the CON damage (1/Lev), but takes quite a while to do it and need upwards of a minute to kill someone. Though it has the nifty buff for yourself and better range.

Overall I'd say it's on the average to strong side for a L5 sorcerer spell and average L5 for a wizard spell. The guaranteed rather than XdY damage is an advantage as is it being instantaneous rather than over time.

Jestir256
2006-01-01, 11:28 AM
Repleneshing: Gross overpower. I wouldn't grant this as a NINTH level spell. An evil wizard with this could cast continuously for YEARS, pausing only to eat and remem spells. An evil sorceror would only need to pause for lunch now and again. A world with this spell would be dominated by wizards and sorcerors who are always casting and seeking new volunteers/victims on which to feed. NEVER mess with the spell remem cycle; the only way I'd let this spell fly is if you took away the rememorization aspect. Then you could let it be a first level spell; maybe even a cantrip.

Exsanguination: Neat spell, not too powerful, and wins out on style points. Just one thing, though, the save should not be a Will save, since the spell has no effect on their mind. Suggest you switch to fort save (true of the other spell too!).

Dhavaer
2006-01-02, 03:48 AM
Exsanguination has a Will save because it's a modification of telekinesis. I can see where your coming from with the Fort save, but that's not what I'm looking for.

Darkie
2006-01-02, 04:41 AM
Re: Exsanguination

Note that the appropriate save also ties into balance more than any flavour issue.

With a Will save, you end up with spellcasters resisting it properly, while warriors and rogues take the brunt of it.

Which means two castings can instantly kill off a warrior. Level 5 spell, with an 18 in the relevant stat is a DC19 Will save.

Even with a ranged touch roll, with an 18 Dex (assuming their armor allows them) they would have an AC of 14 or so, so connecting becomes a nonissue. (+5 BAB at level 10, +10 at level 20, with a Dex of 16 that's a +8 to a +13, for 75% to 95% chance of connecting.)

At level 20 a warrior has a +6 Will save. Give him some stats or resistance items, and put him at +9. Which means the level 20 warrior (with a Con 20 or less) has a 45% chance of losing over half his Con with one level 5 spell (from a level 20 caster). (Will save of +9 vs DC19 = 45%).

And a ~25% chance of dying in two rounds from this level 5 spell.

I agree with Ayana, although I'd definetly say it's slightly overpowered, and scales oddly.

Some CR10 critters:
Fire Giant: Fort +14, Ref +4, Will +9, Con 21
Bebilith: Fort +16, Ref +9, Will +9, Con 26
Formian Myrmarch: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +11, Con 18
Clay Golem: No effect
Monstrous Scorpion, Gargantuan: Fort +15, Ref +6, Will +6, Con 16
Guardian Naga: Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +11, Con 19
Nine-Headed Pyro/Cryo-Hydra: Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +5, Con 20
Eleven-Headed Hydra: Fort +12, Ref +8, Will +5, Con 20
Rakshasa: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +6, Con 16

With a DC19, (assuming start Int/Cha is 16, +2 from levels 4 and 8, to bring it to 18, and thus DC19), the critters have anywhere from 65% to 35% chance of taking the Con hit, with a general average of around 45%.
Seems just a tad overpowered to me... The main thing is the non-variant Con damage, and the single Will save.

No rolled damage, and targets will saves? My spellcasters would love it.

Dhavaer
2006-01-02, 04:53 AM
I think that the problem might be that abilities, unlike levels and hit points, don't scale much. Maybe a flat 2d4 Con damage?
As for Dark Replenishing, I originally thought of making the target have to be a caster. Would it be better if you could become rested, fed and watered of off anyone, but only creatures with arcane caster levels or spell-like abilities give you the option of restoring spells?

Darkie
2006-01-02, 05:01 AM
I think that the problem might be that abilities, unlike levels and hit points, don't scale much.I think you nailed the problem on the head right there. CR10 to CR20, Con doesn't increase all that much. The terrasque has 35 Con, and a Balor has 31 Con, but even CR20 dragons only have 25Con, which isn't all that much an increase from the CR10 mobs. And if these are level 20 NPCs, their con is worse...

Anyone know of any spells that does a set amount of damage to ability scores? All that occurs to me is Feeblemind. And that's a spell that only seriously effects Int/Cha casters, and is resisted with their strongest save.

Dhavaer
2006-01-02, 05:22 AM
Changed damage on Exsanguination to 2d4, and lowered level to 4.

stainboy
2006-01-02, 05:28 AM
Dhaever's Dark Replenishing: The 1000gp material component is a bit excessive imo, but otherwhise the level and effect are about right. There is some serious potential for abuse by players and DMs who don't properly understand the resting rules though. I can see players trying to argue that they instantly regain a full battery of spells after casting it, or claiming that casting it gives them 16 hours of spell research or item creation time in a day. Neither of these is true, but I can see someone thinking it is.

Also, it's a pretty nasty spell, but if Vampiric Touch doesn't merit the evil descriptor I don't think this does either.

Very interesting spell. I like it.

Edit: Posted some comments on Dhaever's Exanguination earlier, but then deleted them because the spell had already been changed in a way that made my advice irrelevent. As a 4th-level spell that deals a flat 2d4 Con damage, Dhaever's Exanguination seems about right.

Ayana
2006-01-02, 06:02 AM
I have to agree, I like Exsanguination with 2d4 better than set numbers too.

Ok, I see the issue with the repelenishing. You could expend 7 spells at 8am, 6 more at 11am, cast replenishing at 4pm (get your 8am spells back), spend those 7 slots again at 6pm, cast replenishing at 7pm (get your 11am spells back), and so on. I would suggest the earlier modifications I mentioned plus "The caster can only benefit from this spell once per day. Additional castings within 24 hours provide the caster no benefits (but still tire the target)."

Picasso007
2006-01-02, 06:11 AM
Re: Exsanguination

Seems ok to me, although yeah, I'd reconsider the saving throw. *Part of me says to make it a no-save ray spell instead, but that'd be twisted and cruel, and probably bump it up a spell level (and would make it a dragon-slayer spell, and Gygax knows we don't need more of those. *Silly dragons with their 40+ ACs and <10 touch ACs...). *To the people questioning its level, it seems fine at 5th. *4th sees Phantasmal Killer, which is definately weaker, and 6th sees Disintegrate and Finger of Death. *Not to mention that 5th also has Cloudkill and Feeblemind, and I'd consider this roughly on par with both.

Re: Replenshing.

I'd scream Bad and Wrong as well if you hadn't included the usual "no resetting spells cast in the last eight hours" clause. *As it is, the concept's not broken beyond repair, just overpowered. *Roughly speaking, it expands the caster's spellcasting ability by about 50% over time, at the cost of multiple high-level slots and victims. *

Look at it this way: *Caster wakes up at 4 am. *In the eight hours before noon, he casts half his spells. *From noon to 8, he casts the other half, saving this one. *At 8, he casts Dark Replenishing, then takes an hour to re-prepare only the spells he cast this moning. *He adventures through the night, and at 4 am he casts the spell again. *Again, he can spend an hour to replenish only those spells he cast the previous afternoon. *So, basically, he gets 24-hour casting capability, but will only on average have half his capability available at a given moment.

I suppose it's primary utility would be less for non-stop dungeon crawling, and more for the times a caster was interrupted from his night's beauty sleep for whatever reason.

That said, I'd bump it up to 6th level at least. *You might want to specify what, exactly, the Will save negates, IE that if the target makes the save, the entire spell fizzles (not just the exhausted effect on the target). *Also, if you're worried about repeated castings of the spell, maybe add an expensive material component or an XP component? *They're not gonna want to cast it several times a day when they're burning 500 GP a casting... (Heehee, make the component special oils, which are burnt during the casting. Get it? Burning the midnight oil? Okay, and now I'm going to bed, since it's 5:15 AM...)

Darkie
2006-01-02, 06:13 AM
Dhaever's Dark Replenishing: The 1000gp material component is a bit excessive imo, but otherwhise the level and effect are about right.
It's a 1000gp Arcane Focus, not a material component, mind you. So you only need to buy it once, unless you lose your spell component pouch.

Dhavaer
2006-01-02, 06:55 AM
What do people think about making Dark Replenishing restore spells only if the target has arcane spells or has spell-like abilities?

Dhavaer
2006-01-02, 07:06 AM
Dhavaer's Dark Replenishing
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: One living creature, either helpless or willing
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
You draw power and vitality from your victim. You regain hits points and heal ability damage as if you had rested for eight hours. You are nourished as if you had drunk a gallon of water and consumed a pound of food. (This does not create real food or drink, you don't produce wastes if nourished by this spell).
The target becomes exhausted, thirsty and hungry. They are treated as though they had not eaten or had water for 1 day. The next 8 hours of rest gives them no benefit, not even removal of the exhausted condition.
If the target is a spellcaster, they lose any prepared spells or unused spell slots. You regain spell slots equal to those drained. (For preperation or casting, dpeending on if you are spontaneous or prepared) Any excess spell slots are wasted. (i.e. if you may have up to 4 level 0 spells a day, and you drain 5 level 0 spells, you lose the fifth spell). You may use any higher level spell slot to restore a lower level slot. (i.e. If you drain a level 2 spell, you may replenish a level 1 spell slot).
If the saving throw succeeds, all aspects of this spell are ineffective.
Arcane Focus: A black sapphire or diamond lens, worth no less than 1000gp.

Darkie
2006-01-02, 07:07 AM
Hm, I say regain only what the target has. So a level 20 wizard using it on a level 1 wizard only regains the cantrips and level 1 spells that level 1 wizard can cast. It makes 'sense' that way.

Dhavaer
2006-01-02, 07:07 AM
Edited. Is that clear? I'm worried that it might be a little confusing.

Dhavaer
2006-01-04, 01:29 AM
Dhavaer's Spite
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V
Casting Time: Standard Action
Range: Close
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Your victim is consumed by terrible wracking pains, and blood begins to seep from their orifices. The target is stunned for as long as you maintain concentration. At any time during the spell's duration, you may cease to concentrate, and the effect ends. You may resume concentration as a standard action. The target gets a new save when you resume concentration, with a -2 penalty for every previous failed save (including the original save).
If used for torture, the spell counts as dealing damage equal to twice the caster level.

Winged One
2006-01-04, 01:58 AM
I'd probably be better able to evaluate this spell if I had the BoVD with it's rules for torture. Seems to be a rather strange name, though.

Note: Dark Replenishing: I've actually been wanting this sort of spell for a while. *maniacal laughter*

Dhavaer
2006-01-04, 02:08 AM
I don't have the BoVD either, I just remembered what I could and took a wild random guess as to what it should do.
As for the name, there's also Malice and Wrath, and the as-yet-unmade Reckoning and possibly Mirth.

Ayana
2006-01-04, 01:48 PM
This is basically a Hold Monster. It has the advantage of being Necromancy rather than Enchantment [Mind-affecting]. It doesn't give the victim a save every round. But it requires the caster to keep concentrating.

Hard call ... I'm tempted to say it'd be ok because it also 'ties' up your caster by requiring concentration, but I'd run it through some playtesting before I let it into my campaign.

However! There's a loophole in the spell as you wrote it. I can cast this on a target. Next round I drop concentration as a free action, cast something with my standard action, then reassert my concentration with my move action. Target gets to resave at -2 so in this way it's nicer than Hold Monster (ie I get 1 SA each round, and target gets saves each round but at accumulating -2s). I suggest changing the re-assert to full round action or specifying that they can't reassert sooner than their next round after dropping.

Edit: I don't have my BoVD handy so I can't comment on the torture value.

Jestir256
2006-01-04, 06:42 PM
Given Ayana's limitation, you could make this a fourth level spell, although I don't see that it has any actual necromantic effect. I guess that decision is aesthetic anyway.

Dhavaer
2006-01-04, 11:29 PM
Changed regaining concentration to a standard action. Can't remember why I had it as a move action before. Should it be 4th level now?

It's necromancy because it's definetely not anything else. Certainly not Enchantment, Divination, Conjuration or Illusion. Doesn't call energy, so not Evocation. I suppose it could be Transmutation, but that doesn't feel right.

Darkie
2006-01-04, 11:52 PM
One problem with 'flavour text' controlling spell school is that it's not what was intended.

An enchantment spell that's dressed up into, say, an evocation spell is just an attempt to bypass the game mechanics.

Dhavaer
2006-01-05, 01:17 AM
How is it an Enchantment spell? There's no Enchantment spell I know of that causes stunning. This spell I based it off was Wrack, which as far as I recall is a necromancy spell.

Ayana
2006-01-05, 11:23 AM
Hold Monster is an Enchantment spell which is what I was comparing it with. I didn't say this one is Enchantment.

There are many many examples of spells with very similar effects but differing schools due to flavor. (Conjuration line of Orbs for example)

Dhavaer
2006-01-05, 06:16 PM
Was talking to Jeff. Sorry, Ayana.

Dhavaer's Malice
Enchantment [Mind Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close
Target: One intelligent creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You blast the target's mind with dark energy, dissolving their ego. The target is reduced to 0 Cha. This is not ability damage or drain. They are still able to breathe, but are no longer considered a creature. They cannot move or take actions. This effect can be removed by a Remove Curse spell cast at least the caster level of Malice, or by a Wish or Miracle spell.
It is entirely likely that the target of this spell with starve to death, as they are incapable of drinking or eating.

Ayana
2006-01-05, 06:38 PM
This is overpowered. Basically it is a save or die except.
- The subject can only be 'fixed' by a L9 spell or a low level spell cast at the level of someone able to cast L9 spells. (Death can be fixed much lower level spells and even a Disintegrate can be undone by Ressurection L7)
- It's more flexible than a save-or-die because it allows the victim to be used for spells that requires a "warm body" to drain (like the reduced sleep, or the no-need-to-eat one in BoVD).
- Since the victim does not actually die it negates the use of a Clone spell, unlike save-or-dies

Dhavaer
2006-01-05, 06:56 PM
Suggestions?

Dhavaer
2006-01-07, 10:06 AM
Increased spell level and reduced required caster level for Remove Curse.

I_Got_This_Name
2006-01-07, 09:42 PM
Malice looks good to me now.

Dhavaer
2006-01-08, 08:27 PM
Dhavaer's Lesser Stormcall
Evocation [electricity]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 Full round
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None and Reflex half ;see text
Spell Resistance: No and Yes; see text.
Calling power from the Elemental Plane of Air, you gain the ability to throw bursts of lightning at your foes. You may throw 1 burst/2 caster levels. Throwing a burst is a standard action. Each burst does 2d6 damage in a 10 foot radius, allowing a reflex save for half. The bursts have medium range (100 feet+10 feet/level). This effect allows spell resistance.
While you have any bursts remaining, you emit light as the light spell.
If the duration expires, any remaining bursts are wasted.
Focus: A clear crystal rod costing no less than 250gp.