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ilovefire
2005-12-26, 11:05 PM
Here's my newest PrC, the Master Tactician, a five level. Think of it as a tac-fighter-based PrC.

Master Tactician, Version One

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Any Weapon
Skills: Tumble: Five Ranks
BAB: +5
Special: Must have been on the winning side, strategically and operationally, of a large military battle with at least three different armies, each consisting of no less than one thousand men or women, involved, and has to have played some role in directing the tactics of that battle.

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Tumble, Diplomacy, Heal

Level One: Master Tactic, Bonus feat
Level Two: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +1d6
Level Three: Master Tactic, Bonus feat
Level Four: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +2d6
Level Five: Master Tactic, Bonus feat

Master Tactic: Each level, The Master Tactician selects one of the following abilities, called Master Tactics.
Tactical Trip: The Master Tactician can tell what enemies are more susceptible to trip attacks. To represent this, a Master Tactician with this Master Tactic can re-roll a single missed attack roll when attempting to trip an opponent, once a day.
Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.
Tactical Defensive: The Master Tactician knows how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a bonus to AC equal to the Master Tacticianís Class level.
Tactical Sunder: The Master Tactician knows various weak points of many different kinds of weapons and armor. This is represented by +1d4 damage to all items that the Master Tactician attempts to sunder.
Tactical Usage of Tower Shields: The Master Tactician knows how to use a tower shield tactically. This is represented by lowering the check penalty of tower shields to -2.
Know Thy Enemy: The Master Tactician knows how to find and hurt certain enemies. This functions exactly like the Rangerís Favored Enemy ability. This Master Tactic can be selected multiple times. Itís effects do not stack. Each time you select this Master Tactic, select a different enemy. Itís effects do not increase like a Rangerís Favored Enemy abilityís effects increase.
Tactical Disarm: The Master Tactician can easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it. They may do this three times a day.

Bonus Feats: At First, second, and fifth level, the Master Tactician may select a bonus feat from the Fighter bonus feat list.

Sneak Attack: At levels two and four, the Master Tactician gets +1d6 and +2d6 sneak attack, respectively. These stack if the Master Tactician has Sneak Attack from another class, such as Rogue.

Mephistopheles
2005-12-26, 11:12 PM
I like the idea, but it doesn't quite make sense. I mean, it requires BAB of +5, and is very fighter-esque, but requires Tumble, and gives Sneak Attack. It seems like this class is a little too far in the middle of rogue and fighter, and might need to be nudged to one side or the other.

ilovefire
2005-12-26, 11:16 PM
well, i was thinking of removing skill requirements, since there are three feats, and a fairly steep special requirement, but yeah, you have a point...

Mephistopheles
2005-12-26, 11:26 PM
Sorry I couldn't offer any actual suggestions, just a criticism, but I thought I'd help you out, and I wasn't sure what you could replace the Sneak Attack with.

ilovefire
2005-12-26, 11:29 PM
eh, no problem. here's version two

Master Tactician, Version Two

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Any Weapon
BAB: +5
Special: Must have been on the winning side, strategically and operationally, of a large military battle with at least three different armies, each consisting of no less than one thousand men or women, involved, and has to have played some role in directing the tactics of that battle.

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Tumble, Diplomacy, Heal

Level One: Master Tactic, Bonus feat
Level Two: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +1d6
Level Three: Master Tactic, Bonus feat
Level Four: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +2d6
Level Five: Master Tactic, Bonus feat

Master Tactic: Each level, The Master Tactician selects one of the following abilities, called Master Tactics.
Tactical Trip: The Master Tactician can tell what enemies are more susceptible to trip attacks. To represent this, a Master Tactician with this Master Tactic can re-roll a single missed attack roll when attempting to trip an opponent, once a day.
Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.
Tactical Defensive: The Master Tactician knows how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a +6 bonus to AC whenever the Master Tactician is on Total Defense
Tactical Sunder: The Master Tactician knows various weak points of many different kinds of weapons and armor. This is represented by +1d4 damage to all items that the Master Tactician attempts to sunder.
Tactical Usage of Tower Shields: The Master Tactician knows how to use a tower shield tactically. This is represented by lowering the check penalty of tower shields to -2.
Know Thy Enemy: The Master Tactician knows how to find and hurt certain enemies. This functions exactly like the Rangerís Favored Enemy ability. This Master Tactic can be selected multiple times. Itís effects do not stack. Each time you select this Master Tactic, select a different enemy. Itís effects do not increase like a Rangerís Favored Enemy abilityís effects increase.
Tactical Disarm: The Master Tactician can easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it.

Bonus Feats: At First, second, and fifth level, the Master Tactician may select a bonus feat from the Fighter bonus feat list.

Sneak Attack: At levels two and four, the Master Tactician gets +1d6 and +2d6 sneak attack, respectively. These stack if the Master Tactician has Sneak Attack from another class, such as Rogue.

Mephistopheles
2005-12-26, 11:36 PM
Oh, and something else. This class doesn't really strike me as actually being a master tactician. It's more like a tactician in one-on-one or small-scale combat, not a tactician on large-scale combat. I like the class a good deal, but the flavor's kinda... off, I guess.

Seerow
2005-12-26, 11:38 PM
Seems pretty overpowered to me. The three feats used as prerequisites are fairly common for most fighters (the questionable one being Improved Initiative, the others being easy enough), so anyone who can manage to roleplay getting in charge of 3 separate armies can probably get into this class easily, aside from the tumble ranks requirement. (Even that can be met as a crossclass skill by level 7, or earlier with Cosmopolitan)

What do you get in return? In 5 levels you get 5 special skills, 3 feats, and 2d6 Sneak Attack. Who -wouldn't- want to take this class? As opposed to being a Fighter10(where you would have 6 bonus feats) or a Fighter5/Rogue5(3 Bonus feats 3d6 Sneak Attack, slightly higher skills, lower BAB), you have Fighter5/Tactitian5(6 Bonus Feats, 5 Special Abilities, and 2d6 Sneak Attack, full BAB)

I understand that the roleplaying restriction is a bit harsh... but any campaign allowing this class will probably have large scale battles with PCs in some higher up role, so it becomes relatively easy for them to fulfill that requirement, and from there they get lots of fun stuff.


Edit: I started writing before you edited out the Tumble prerequisite, making this class even easier to enter.

ilovefire
2005-12-26, 11:38 PM
well, i was trying to keep a 'good at tactics' flavor, while still having it useful to the standard PC tactical fighter.

Mephistopheles
2005-12-26, 11:44 PM
Maybe if the description was more like 'master of tactical combat' as opposed to master of tactics in general? And the special requirement would have to be modified somewhat. But besides that it seems pretty good.

Edit: I just realized. I had assumed that it was good BAB and Fort saves, but you never actually posted the BAB or saving throws of the class. And you kept Tumble as a class skill in your modification.

Deleran
2005-12-26, 11:46 PM
Oh, and something else. This class doesn't really strike me as actually being a master tactician. It's more like a tactician in one-on-one or small-scale combat, not a tactician on large-scale combat. I like the class a good deal, but the flavor's kinda... off, I guess.

I agree, there seems to be a disconnect between the flavor of the class and its abilities. He seems basically to be just a good one on one fighter, which seems like the exact opposite of the flavor. I think instead of some of his existing abilities, he needs some that affect either nearby allies or come into play when he's outnumbered. And yes, its also overpowered and you need to define which saves are good and which aren't.

Mephistopheles
2005-12-26, 11:48 PM
Dropping the bonus feats and maybe one of the sneak attack levels would do a lot for balancing the class, I'd say.

ilovefire
2005-12-26, 11:48 PM
Knew i forgot something. I allways do with PrCs.

Master Tactician, Version Three

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Any Weapon
BAB: +5
Special: Must have been on the winning side, strategically and operationally, of a large military battle with at least three different armies, each consisting of no less than one thousand men or women, involved, and has to have played some role in directing the tactics of that battle.

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Diplomacy, Heal, Tumble
BaB: Good (1:1)
Saves: Reflex and Fortitude: High, Will: low

Level One: Master Tactic, Bonus feat
Level Two: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +1d6
Level Three: Master Tactic, Bonus feat
Level Four: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +2d6
Level Five: Master Tactic, Bonus feat

Master Tactic: Each level, The Master Tactician selects one of the following abilities, called Master Tactics.
Tactical Trip: The Master Tactician can tell what enemies are more susceptible to trip attacks. To represent this, a Master Tactician with this Master Tactic can re-roll a single missed attack roll when attempting to trip an opponent, once a day.
Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.
Tactical Defensive: The Master Tactician knows how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a +6 bonus to AC whenever the Master Tactician is on Total Defense
Tactical Sunder: The Master Tactician knows various weak points of many different kinds of weapons and armor. This is represented by +1d4 damage to all items that the Master Tactician attempts to sunder.
Tactical Usage of Tower Shields: The Master Tactician knows how to use a tower shield tactically. This is represented by lowering the check penalty of tower shields to -2.
Know Thy Enemy: The Master Tactician knows how to find and hurt certain enemies. This functions exactly like the Rangerís Favored Enemy ability. This Master Tactic can be selected multiple times. Itís effects do not stack. Each time you select this Master Tactic, select a different enemy. Itís effects do not increase like a Rangerís Favored Enemy abilityís effects increase.
Tactical Disarm: The Master Tactician can easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it.

Bonus Feats: At First, second, and fifth level, the Master Tactician may select a bonus feat from the Fighter bonus feat list.

Sneak Attack: At levels two and four, the Master Tactician gets +1d6 and +2d6 sneak attack, respectively. These stack if the Master Tactician has Sneak Attack from another class, such as Rogue.

Deleran
2005-12-26, 11:51 PM
I think for some good "master tactics" for the class, you may want to examine the strategy tree of the Smart Hero class from d20 modern. (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/modern/roarerbull/Smart.php) It would a good starting point.

Mephistopheles
2005-12-26, 11:52 PM
Like I said before, I would suggest losing the bonus feats, and possibly a level of sneak attack, and definitely only having one good save. As it stands the class is a tad bit overpowered.

Seerow
2005-12-26, 11:52 PM
Okay, so he now gains Tumble as a class skill and a good reflex save...

I ask again, does this class have -any- drawbacks at all?

ilovefire
2005-12-27, 12:02 AM
True. yeah. very true.

Master Tactician, Version Four

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Any Weapon
BAB: +5
Special: Must have been on the winning side, strategically and operationally, of a large military battle with at least three different armies, each consisting of no less than one thousand men or women, involved, and has to have played some role in directing the tactics of that battle.

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Diplomacy, Heal
BaB: Good (1:1)
Saves: Fortitude: High, Will and Reflex: low

Level One: Master Tactic
Level Two: Master Tactic
Level Three: Master Tactic
Level Four: Master Tactic
Level Five: Master Tactic

Master Tactic: Each level, The Master Tactician selects one of the following abilities, called Master Tactics.
Tactical Trip: The Master Tactician can tell what enemies are more susceptible to trip attacks. To represent this, a Master Tactician with this Master Tactic can re-roll a single missed attack roll when attempting to trip an opponent, once a day.
Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.
Tactical Defensive: The Master Tactician knows how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a +6 bonus to AC whenever the Master Tactician is on Total Defense
Tactical Sunder: The Master Tactician knows various weak points of many different kinds of weapons and armor. This is represented by +1d4 damage to all items that the Master Tactician attempts to sunder.
Tactical Usage of Tower Shields: The Master Tactician knows how to use a tower shield tactically. This is represented by lowering the check penalty of tower shields to -2.
Know Thy Enemy: The Master Tactician knows how to find and hurt certain enemies. This functions exactly like the Rangerís Favored Enemy ability. This Master Tactic can be selected multiple times. Itís effects do not stack. Each time you select this Master Tactic, select a different enemy. Itís effects do not increase like a Rangerís Favored Enemy abilityís effects increase.
Tactical Disarm: The Master Tactician can easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it.

Mephistopheles
2005-12-27, 12:05 AM
Looks good, but it seems to be lacking something. Perhaps some sort of 5th-level ability possibly? I'm not exactly sure what you could use, though.

The_Werebear
2005-12-27, 11:13 AM
I would give them this 5th level ability

Examine opponent: If the Master Tactician studies an opponent for 2 rounds, he or she gains a +4 attack bonus on that target, and can use sneak attacks against it as if the target was flanked.

Also, I would give 1d6 of sneak attack damage back.

Finally, I would use a spiked chain with this PrC at all times.

ilovefire
2005-12-27, 03:15 PM
mmkay. with that information in, the Master Tactician looks more like Version Five

Master Tactician, Version Five

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Any Weapon
BAB: +5
Special: Must have been on the winning side, strategically and operationally, of a large military battle with at least three different armies, each consisting of no less than one thousand men or women, involved, and has to have played some role in directing the tactics of that battle.

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Diplomacy, Heal
BaB: Good (1:1)
Saves: Fortitude: High, Will and Reflex: low

Level One: Master Tactic
Level Two: Master Tactic
Level Three: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +1d6
Level Four: Master Tactic
Level Five: Master Tactic, Tactical Analysis

Master Tactic: Each level, The Master Tactician selects one of the following abilities, called Master Tactics.
Tactical Trip: The Master Tactician can tell what enemies are more susceptible to trip attacks. To represent this, a Master Tactician with this Master Tactic can re-roll a single missed attack roll when attempting to trip an opponent, once a day.
Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.
Tactical Defensive: The Master Tactician knows how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a +6 bonus to AC whenever the Master Tactician is on Total Defense
Tactical Sunder: The Master Tactician knows various weak points of many different kinds of weapons and armor. This is represented by +1d4 damage to all items that the Master Tactician attempts to sunder.
Tactical Usage of Tower Shields: The Master Tactician knows how to use a tower shield tactically. This is represented by lowering the check penalty of tower shields to -2.
Know Thy Enemy: The Master Tactician knows how to find and hurt certain enemies. This functions exactly like the Rangerís Favored Enemy ability. This Master Tactic can be selected multiple times. Itís effects do not stack. Each time you select this Master Tactic, select a different enemy. Itís effects do not increase like a Rangerís Favored Enemy abilityís effects increase.
Tactical Disarm: The Master Tactician can easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it.

Sneak attack: As the rogue ability. This stacks with sneak attacks from other sources.

Tactical analysis: If the Master Tactician studies an opponent for 2 rounds, he or she gains a +4 attack bonus on that target, and can use sneak attacks against it as if the target was flanked. Studying a target with this ability provokes attacks of opportunity.

Duraska
2005-12-27, 03:38 PM
I like the idea of this class. I think you were sort of going for a "seasoned soldier" or "general" type character.


I have sort of been planning out a campaign I want to run. It takes place on Earth (chiefly in Ancient Rome) during about 50 BC. The only catch is that this is a "fantasy" version of Earth and history. Elves exist (and follow the basic "Celtic" way of life up in what is now Britain), as do Dwarves (who are centered around Norse mythology). Humans are, of course, the chief species on the planet and fantasy races like halflings and dwarves are rare (and rooted in their base region of mythology).

Anyway, to keep this post on-topic. I plan on allowing the PCs to take what I call "advanced templates" and apply them to their characters. These templates add abilities like PRCs, but they don't require the player to take specific levels in them.

One such template I've been playing with is "Centurion." The idea is that if the character advances (for several years) within the Roman Legions, he can earn his way to "Centurion" rank. He would get to apply the following to his character:

+2 charisma

Battle Command: Can grant the soldiers who fight under him a +1 to all attack rolls and damage rolls, the Centurion takes a -1 to attack and damage rolls to simulate the fact that he's concentrating on giving orders.

Gains the following skills as class skills: Ride, Knowledge: History, Spot, and Gather Information. If the character formerly had these skills as cross-class, they now get them as class skills.

There is more to the different "templates" (as well as other templates like "Legionnaire," "Berserker," and "High Priest," etc), but basically they would allow my players to take up specific "jobs" within the world, and get some improvements in return.

I think the Centurion idea was sort of what you were going for: a strong commander who can easily lead troops in large battles. But as I dislike the idea of PRCs, I cannot help you create one. Sorry. :)

ilovefire
2005-12-27, 03:43 PM
kind of. I was going for more of a 'seasoned soldier that knows when and where to do things to turn the tide of battle'. Actually, i just wanted a Tac-fighter PrC that has more than three levels. :p

firepup
2005-12-28, 02:30 AM
just a suggestion, but why not add like a group buff/debuff type tactic, it sounds more kindah like fitting with the class name.

ilovefire
2005-12-28, 03:10 AM
Hmm... perhaps... how's this sound?

Master Tactician, Version Six

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Any Weapon
BAB: +5
Special: Must have been on the winning side, strategically and operationally, of a large military battle with at least three different armies, each consisting of no less than one thousand men or women, involved, and has to have played some role in directing the tactics of that battle.

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Diplomacy, Heal
BaB: Good (1:1)
Saves: Fortitude: High, Will and Reflex: low

Level One: Master Tactic
Level Two: Master Tactic, Tactical Mastery +2
Level Three: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +1d6
Level Four: Master Tactic, Tactical Mastery +4
Level Five: Master Tactic, Tactical Analysis

Master Tactic: Each level, The Master Tactician selects one of the following abilities, called Master Tactics.
Tactical Trip: The Master Tactician can tell what enemies are more susceptible to trip attacks. To represent this, a Master Tactician with this Master Tactic can re-roll a single missed attack roll when attempting to trip an opponent, once a day.
Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.
Tactical Defensive: The Master Tactician knows how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a +6 bonus to AC whenever the Master Tactician is on Total Defense
Tactical Sunder: The Master Tactician knows various weak points of many different kinds of weapons and armor. This is represented by +1d4 damage to all items that the Master Tactician attempts to sunder.
Tactical Usage of Tower Shields: The Master Tactician knows how to use a tower shield tactically. This is represented by lowering the check penalty of tower shields to -2.
Know Thy Enemy: The Master Tactician knows how to find and hurt certain enemies. This functions exactly like the Rangerís Favored Enemy ability. This Master Tactic can be selected multiple times. Itís effects do not stack. Each time you select this Master Tactic, select a different enemy. Itís effects do not increase like a Rangerís Favored Enemy abilityís effects increase.
Tactical Disarm: The Master Tactician can easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it.

Tactical Mastery: Upon reaching second level, the Master Tactician and all friendlies within ten feet receive a +2 bonus to all saving throws, attacks rolls, and damage rolls, as long as the Master Tactician is not participating in combat of any kind, instead barking orders from nearby. This bonus increases to +4 at level four.

Sneak attack: As the rogue ability. This stacks with sneak attacks from other sources.

Tactical analysis: If the Master Tactician studies an opponent for 2 rounds, he or she gains a +4 attack bonus on that target, and can use sneak attacks against it as if the target was flanked. Studying a target with this ability provokes attacks of opportunity.

firepup
2005-12-28, 03:40 AM
*nods* i like it!

The_Werebear
2005-12-28, 10:45 PM
It looks good to me.

Voyager_I
2005-12-29, 01:33 AM
I hate to ruin the party, but I'm not really a fan of this class (although I will say that this version is much better than the others). To start with, the flavor and special requirements still have little to do with the actualy abilities of the class. The flavor portrays him as a brilliant, all-commanding general type figure, such as Hannibal (the Carthaginian, not the creepy guy who eats brains). However, the command abilities he actually has are oriented more towards small-scale, squad-level combat, not entire armies. He seems more like a canny, seasoned fighter who's learned a few tricks and knows how to lead a small group in combat with a tactical edge. Something of a bonus for fighters who didn't take intelligence as their dumb stat. As such, I'd reccomend renaming him something more fitting to his actual role, and modifying his requirements. Namely, you might want to consider adding leadership (although if he's got decent intelligence, he's probably got pretty bad Charisma). I like improved intitiative (seeing as how it's hard to lead if you're the last one to react), but I'm not as sure about tumble. I'd also suggest switching the command in the battle (also, why three-way?) to something like "Must have had a command position as leader of a squad of soldiers, or acted unofficially in such a role."

I don't like many of the abilities, too. Some of them, such as Tactical Sunder, Disarm, and Trip, are already pretty well covered by the "Improved" feats, and the ability to have both of them would probably be pretty broken (no AoO and a +4 mod with a reroll). I have mixed feelings about the sneak attack for some reason, but I have to admit that it ties in pretty well with the "dirty trick" nature of this fighter. The same goes with Tactical Flank, and I can see Tactical Defensive being used to represent him holding back for a second to bark some orders. To be honest "Tactical Tower Shield" just seems silly to me.

Tactical Mastery and Tactical Analisys are what this class seem to be about (and they are good ideas). I think they could use a little more attention, and I'd suggest using the Tacticians intelligence modifier instead of a flat bonus (since a stupid tactician won't be a very successful one, will he?). For example.

Coordination-At 2nd level, the Tactician may convey a bonus to attack rolls and armor class equal to 1/2 his Intelligence modifier to all allies within 30 feet (or whatever) who can hear or see him (assuming they have formed some prearranged code of gestures and such). The bonus increases to his full intelligence modifier at 5th level. Using this ability is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

As a side note, perhaps you should change "Tactical Defense" to work with this. Instead of giving him a further +2 bonus, let him use the Total Defense ability as a free action, representing the ability to defend himself while barking orders. Of course, that may be unbalanced or some such.

Analysis-Starting at 1st Level, if the Tactician has been able to observe an opponent's fighting style in detail for 10 rounds, he may add a bonus
of 1/2 his intelligence modifier to attack rolls and AC against that opponent. The bonus increases to his full intelligence modifier at 4th level. Rounds in combat with the opponent do count, as there can be few better opportunities to discover their strengths and weaknesses.

Ten rounds may not be an appropriate number, so choose one that fits a decent amount of observation

This class does have some potential, and I hope I've been able to help.

Everyman
2005-12-29, 03:16 AM
Wow...I was expecting a class that uses a lot of tactical feats. This is certainly much more interesting.

I've read through a everyone's comments, and I have to agree with what they've said (more or less). Assuming we are working off of version 6.0, I'm making the following notes:

Requirements: Feats and min. BAB are right on the money, but you do need to change your special requirement a tad. Such as...
"Must have successfully lead both strategically and operationally a squadron of no less than ten soldiers in combat at least three times, each time suffering no more than 25% causualities"
This better conveys a small-scale tactician (which matches mechanically and flavorwise).

Skill set: Your skill set is very small for someone who is going to be a strategic fighter. I'd add the fighter class's skill set to this as well, especially since those skills are necessary for someone on the battlefield.

HD, BAB, Saves: Perfect. Keep'em as is, my friend.

Master Tactics: They all look pretty good and flavorful. I'd just like to note that Tactical Disarm's ability to allow me to wield a one-handed weapon and snatch someone else's weapon, even in grapple, is just fun sounding.

Tactical Mastery: I'd actually use Voyager I's "Coordination" bonuses instead of your listed one here. Keep your activation requirements and progression, but make the bonuses given half and then full Intelligence mod.

Tactical Analysis: I'd just grant a +4 bonus to attack rolls and opposed feint manuevers if a Master Tactician fights the same opponent for more than 2 rounds. Let the bonus continue as long as they don't change targets for attack rolls or lose an opposed feint check.

Otherwise, I like it a lot. Nice job.

ilovefire
2005-12-29, 06:56 PM
okay, both of thsoe given to mind, i've come up with this version of the Master Tactician. Version Seven.

Master Tactician, Version Seven

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Leadership
BAB: +5
Special: Must have successfully lead both strategically and operationally a squadron of no less than ten soldiers in combat at least three times, each time suffering no more than 25% causualities

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Diplomacy, Heal, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Jump, Ride, Swim
BaB: Good (1:1)
Saves: Fortitude: High, Will and Reflex: low

Level One: Analysis
Level Two: Coordination
Level Three: Tactical Defensive
Level Four: Tactical Flank OR Tactical Disarm
Level Five: Improved Analysis

Analysis: Starting at 1st Level, if the Tactician has been able to observe an opponent's fighting style in detail for 10 rounds, he may add a bonus of 1/2 his intelligence modifier to attack rolls and AC against that opponent. The bonus increases to his full intelligence modifier at 5th level. The time spent studying the opponentís fighting style also halves to five rounds at level five. Rounds in combat with the opponent do count, as there can be few better opportunities to discover their strengths and weaknesses.

Coordination: At 2nd level, the Tactician may convey a bonus to attack rolls and armor class equal to 1/2 his Intelligence modifier to all allies within 30 feet who can hear or see him (assuming they have formed some prearranged code of gestures and such). The bonus increases to his full intelligence modifier at 5th level. Using this ability is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. As long as the Master Tactician is using this ability, they may use Total Defense as a free action, and retain the bonus to it from Tactical Defensive upon gaining this ability.

Tactical Defensive: At Third level, The Master Tactician may know how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a +6 bonus to AC whenever the Master Tactician is on Total Defense.

Tactical Disarm: At Fourth level, The Master Tactician may easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, and the weapon they attempted to disarm was light, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it.

Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.

firepup
2005-12-29, 08:03 PM
i have to say i miss most the master tactics, and the ability to pick and choose.

Everyman
2005-12-29, 10:02 PM
No! :o

I liked the ability to choose and customize the class. I just thought you should edit how Tactical Analysis and Mastery worked. Version 6 was so much better, dude. This version just feels...flat.

Muzzleflash
2005-12-29, 10:09 PM
I think a skill, somewhat like 'bardic knowledge', which on a successful roll would reveal the optimal strategies to take in the fight would be perfect, and fit with the flavor of a low level combat tactics.

For the flavor of massive command and battles (like where three different thousand strong-armies tangled) you could have an epic variant of the class based on large scale war tactics. :P

ilovefire
2005-12-29, 10:11 PM
ah, mmkay then. So, uhh... the REAL Version Seven!

Master Tactician, Version Seven

Requirements:
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Any Weapon
BAB: +5
Special: Must have been on the winning side, strategically and operationally, of a large military battle with at least three different armies, each consisting of no less than one thousand men or women, involved, and has to have played some role in directing the tactics of that battle.

Hit Die: d10
Skill points per level: 2 + INT modifier
Class Skills: Intimidate, Know: History, Diplomacy, Heal
BaB: Good (1:1)
Saves: Fortitude: High, Will and Reflex: low

Level One: Master Tactic
Level Two: Master Tactic, Tactical Mastery +2
Level Three: Master Tactic, Sneak Attack +1d6
Level Four: Master Tactic, Tactical Mastery +4
Level Five: Master Tactic, Tactical Analysis

Master Tactic: Each level, The Master Tactician selects one of the following abilities, called Master Tactics.
Tactical Trip: The Master Tactician can tell what enemies are more susceptible to trip attacks. To represent this, a Master Tactician with this Master Tactic can re-roll a single missed attack roll when attempting to trip an opponent, once a day.
Tactical Flank: The Master Tactician can flank opponents better. This is represented by a +4 bonus to attacks when flanking, instead of a +2.
Tactical Defensive: The Master Tactician knows how to better defend themselves. This is represented by a +6 bonus to AC whenever the Master Tactician is on Total Defense
Tactical Sunder: The Master Tactician knows various weak points of many different kinds of weapons and armor. This is represented by +1d4 damage to all items that the Master Tactician attempts to sunder.
Tactical Usage of Tower Shields: The Master Tactician knows how to use a tower shield tactically. This is represented by lowering the check penalty of tower shields to -2.
Know Thy Enemy: The Master Tactician knows how to find and hurt certain enemies. This functions exactly like the Rangerís Favored Enemy ability. This Master Tactic can be selected multiple times. Itís effects do not stack. Each time you select this Master Tactic, select a different enemy. Itís effects do not increase like a Rangerís Favored Enemy abilityís effects increase.
Tactical Disarm: The Master Tactician can easily disarm opponents. While in a grapple, or when adjacent to an enemy, the Master Tactician may attempt to disarm the enemy as normal. However, if the Master Tactician succeeds, and has a free hand, they now hold the disarmed weapon, and may use it as if proficient in it.

Tactical Mastery: Upon reaching second level, the Master Tactician and all friendlies within ten feet receive a bonus equal to half the Master Tacticians INT bonus to all saving throws, attacks rolls, and damage rolls, as long as the Master Tactician is not participating in combat of any kind, instead barking orders from nearby. This bonus increases to the Master Tacticianís full INT bonus at level four.

Sneak attack: As the rogue ability. This stacks with sneak attacks from other sources.

Tactical analysis: The Master Tactician has a +4 bonus to attack rolls and opposed feint maneuvers if a Master Tactician fights the same opponent for more than 2 rounds.