View Full Version : Quick Response Please: CE Party Member in a Good to Neutral Party

2009-07-04, 08:15 PM
D&D 3.5
Okay, so my character wants to switch out of his monk into the roll of a CE Chaos Gnome Warlock. He's a smart guy, maybe a bit too smart since I think he might enjoy derailing the game a bit too much. I can rely on him playing intelligently for the most part, but he was LN last time we played.

To make things more complicated he's my direct superior at the camp we're working at. He can't fire me, but he can make my job hell.

What I want isn't solutions, its Contingencies and counterstrikes. What might he try (that ****s up the game) and how can I ensure that it fails? I want to avoid "Smote Down by the Gods" if at all possible, but I'm not convinced he won't just go Chaotic Stupid Evil and ruin the game. To make things more difficult I have a noob playing an LG Paladin.

My opening ideas are to prohibit inter-party combat, and negate unfriendly friendly fire, and ask the Chaos Gnome what reasons his character has for not killing the party. The paladin is a separate issue that I will deal with myself.

Keld Denar
2009-07-04, 08:36 PM
You are his DM? Veto evil alignments. Say "It doesn't fit my idea for a heroic campaign" or similar bull****. You don't even have to mean it. Just cut him off. If he doesn't like it, tough, tell him to join next game. DM ALWAYS HAS THE FINAL SAY IN ALL CHARACTER MAKING DECISIONS! Period. Don't be a jerk about it, but be firm. Its one of the most daunting responsibilities you have as a DM.

Other than that, talk to the guy outside the game. If hes really your boss, I imagine that you are both somewhere slightly more evolved than pre-teens, which should shed a bit of enlightened thought. Mention you are concerned about party cohesion if he's gonna play a sick evil bastard. Talk to him, and tell him you don't really like this idea. He can still play a warlock, and a gnome, and maybe be a little bit crazy, but you don't want him to ruin your game, and by ruin your game, you mean piss off you and the other players. Its not a solo game after all.

This is more of an out of game issue than an in game issue. Resolve it that way.

2009-07-04, 08:44 PM
Hmm, he might not be adverse to bumping it up to Chaotic Neutral.

2009-07-04, 08:58 PM
Especially since there's already a Paladin in the party, just tell him "no Evil alignments, since that will screw up the Pally".

2009-07-04, 09:01 PM
To make things more complicated he's my direct superior at the camp we're working at. He can't fire me, but he can make my job hell.
If this is honestly a problem, I fear for more than your game. I certainly wouldn't want to play with someone who would try to get me fired if I decided on something he didn't like. :smallfrown:

What might he do? Are you kidding? He might kill the party for profit (take their stuff), for commission ("I was paid by the assassin's guild"), or for jollies. He might kill townsfolk for the heck of it, or because they just annoyed him. He may kill captives or obvious plot-important NPCs because they "felt suspicious."

To a lesser degree, he may just steal from all the above, for similar reasons.

If you are honestly allowing a CE party member into a NG-LN party, get an honest reason for him doing so. There are some believable reasons for him doing so - such as being a thief on the run, or an "evil with good tendencies" who he wants to evolve over the storyline. Perhaps he wants to qualify for an evil-only prestige class, running a "for the greater good" assassin or necromancer. There are ways a CE person can work (secretly) in a LG party.

Or he could just be doing it "for the fun of it", which is frequently CE-speak for "because I want to piss everyone else off and see what happens." I obviously can't tell you what to do, but I would recommend denying any obviously disruptive character ideas you players think up.

It is your campaign, after all. If worse comes to worse, just end it and declare movie-night, before hurt feelings become permanent.

2009-07-04, 09:01 PM
If he made the character planning to be Chaotic Evil, forcing him to put 'Chaotic Neutral' on his character sheet might not be enough.

2009-07-04, 09:05 PM
If there's a pally on the team then no, also if you don't trust him not going SE say no.

Evil characters should be handled with care, because while they can be awesome characters there is a high potential for ruining the fun of others.

But if you don't want to blankly refuse, have him tell about his character, his motivations, his story.
Then decide from there, if he can make up a good story and a good reason for calling himself CE that isn't "I'm a homicidal bastard" then just maybe he could pull CE off.

2009-07-04, 09:40 PM
You mentioned Contingency; a homebrew Mark Of Justice spell would work.

2009-07-04, 09:56 PM
Unless I miss my guess, he is making a CE character -because- there is a Paladin in the party.

2009-07-04, 10:43 PM
Your DM. your word is law

If he gives you trouble outside of the game then take him to the next up the food chain above him for harassment

2009-07-04, 11:01 PM
Not that I entirely agree with what they've done with the alignment system, but I think 4e has the right idea that evil teammates really don't work too well in a party. It lends itself to intraparty conflict, which could theoretically be fun if everyone involved is mature and understands it's just a game, but even then it'll usually lead to someone losing and someone winning, and players ganging up on each other, and etc. And D&D really isn't supposed to be a competitive activity, in my mind.

So I'd be reluctant to allow it if it was a really mature player, much less one who enjoys messing up your game. Just tell him no; it won't stop him from messing with the other players, but it'll restrain him a bit at least.

2009-07-04, 11:09 PM
I'm going to be very blunt but: If you have to bring this up here, you're best off simply saying "No" in a firm, and resolute voice. If he whines about it, explain to him that you want to avoid inter-party conflict as much as possible. In short, tell him what you trying to tell us. If he makes a CN character and plays him as CE, take the character away ones he moves to evil and have him make a new one. If he's still a problem start banning alignments he can play until he can't play anymore.

2009-07-04, 11:40 PM
Alright. I'll talk to him. We start tomorrow so after tonight this point is moot. Thanks for the advice. I'm sure it will be useful.