the exception that proves the rule?

[Mystic Muse]

can somebody explain this phrase to me? I fail to see how an exception proves the rule.

[Cryssandra]

Maybe it's talking about the universal rule that states:
"There are exceptions to every rule."

[raitalin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_exception_that_proves_the_rule

I seriously didn't expect there to be a wikipedia article exclusively about this phrase. How awesome is wikipedia?

You, my friend, have been thoroughly ninja'd. Hi-YA!

[Ghostwheel]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule .Have a nice day.

[dish]

I'm sure I read another interpretation of that idiom somewhere. It was possibly in one of Bill Bryson's books, but I don't have them all here to check...

Anyway, that interpretation suggested we should think of 'prove' in the archaic sense meaning 'test', as in another well-known idiom, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating," (the test of the pudding is when you actually eat it). If we consider it in this sense, the original idiom (the exception proves the rule) can be glossed as, "The exception tests the rule," or, "The exception challenges the rule," which makes about as much sense as any other interpretation.

[bosssmiley]

Hence 'proving ground' and 'proof house' (a destruct testing facility).

(this one used to bug me too; much like having one's cake and eating it. "Huh?")

@V: Yeah. But there's the whole "have a cake" as an alternative way of saying "eat a cake" muddied the issue for me.

[dish]

Hence 'proving ground' and 'proof house' (a destruct testing facility).

(this one used to bug me too; much like having one's cake and eating it. "Huh?")

I thought the point of that idiom was you can't have your cake and eat it at the same time. It's an either/or situation, not a both/and.

[Lupy]

I'll try to explain it:

The pie is always blueberry unless it's Tuesday.

The Exception is Tuesday, and because there is an exception, we know that there is a rule (the pie will be blueberry).

[Dogmantra]

But Lupy, the fact that it's not Blueberry on Tuesday is built into the rule, and therefore not an exception. Rules can't have exceptions, otherwise they're guidlines :smallwink:

(Just confusing things a bit more)

[Eldan]

Furthermore, the rule could be interpreted in different ways:

On tuesdays, it sometimes is blueberry, sometimes it isn't.
The pie is either a blueberry pie or a tuesday pie.

And so on.

[Lupy]

But Lupy, the fact that it's not Blueberry on Tuesday is built into the rule, and therefore not an exception. Rules can't have exceptions, otherwise they're guidlines :smallwink:

(Just confusing things a bit more)

Good point.

Hm...

[Kaelaroth]

I couldn't be bothered to read the wiki thing, so here's my likely ninja'd take on it.

Say I say "I hate all male actors, except for the exceptionally dreamy Brad Pitt."
The fact that I have considered this so totally that there is only one exception makes the entire rule seem more definite, as there is only one exception to it.

[Cryssandra]

Okay, I see....
So, it means, if there is an exception there must be a rule....

[Fostire]

Good point.

Hm...

Maybe a better example is: The pie is always blueberry, but this tuesday it'll be apple.
The exception (this tuesday it'll be apple) proves that there exists a rule (the pie is always blueberry)


Okay, I see....
So, it means, if there is an exception there must be a rule....

Exactly (or at least that's how I interpret it)

[Tirian]

Okay, I see....
So, it means, if there is an exception there must be a rule....

Kind of. It means that if I make a hypothesis and you come up with a counterexample, it might mean that my hypothesis is false but it might also mean that it is nearly true and still useful. If you obviously had to stretch your mind to come up with the counterexample and had to pass over dozens of examples that demonstrate my hypothesis, then you might agree that my rule is "valid" even though it is formally disproved and that it is an exception to a rule. On the other hand, if you come up with many strong counterexamples, then they are not exceptions to a rule but a refutation of my hypothesis.

For instance, here is an exception proving a rule:

A: Jim Carrey always plays hyperactive man-children!
B: That's not true.
A: Name a time when he didn't.
B: Well, there's ... um ... well....
A: ...
B: Aha! In The Truman Show he played a subdued man-child!
A: I rest my case.

[Yiuel]

It has a lot to do with language, and, in French, this is where the expression comes from.

In many languages (actually most, but not all), you have exceptions to the usual rules.

English example : Most verbs form the 3rd person singular by adding a final -s. However, "to be", "to have" and "to do" don't follow that simple rule. ("to be" is highly irregular, "to have" has "he has" instead of "he haves" and "to do" has "he does" instead of he "dos", but here, it's more of an orthographical rule.)

(I'm sure a lot of people could find some of these in their own native language. French, one of my own native languages, is notorious to be full of these.)

From there, it has been used humoristically to say that to most rules, you'll always find an exception, thence it proves the rule.

[Telonius]

Now I want to both have and eat cake, apple pie, blueberry pie, and pudding. :smallbiggrin:

[KuReshtin]

Rule: Words that contain a spelling with the letters I and E are side by side always have the I before the E. (Brief, grievous etc)
Exception: If there is a C before the IE, the order reverse. (receive, deceive)

Saying: "I before E, except after C."


The saying itself isn't the rule. It's just a way for us to remember the rule.

[Lupy]

^ You sir, win the thread.

[Dogmantra]

Saying: "I before E, except after C."
Though really, the saying should go more like:
"I before E, except after C, or if you flip a coin and get tails."
There are more exceptions to that rule than there are words that follow it, I think. It's more of a guideline than a rule...

[Telonius]

Rule: Words that contain a spelling with the letters I and E are side by side always have the I before the E. (Brief, grievous etc)
Exception: If there is a C before the IE, the order reverse. (receive, deceive)

Saying: "I before E, except after C."


The saying itself isn't the rule. It's just a way for us to remember the rule.

"Or when sounding like A, as in neighbor and weigh."

True exception: seize.

[Fostire]

It's more of a guideline than a rule...
Every day I convince myself more that that is the norm for the English language :smalltongue:

[Dogmantra]

Every day I convince myself more that that is the norm for the English language :smalltongue:

...
You weren't convinced already? Show me a trend in English, and I'll show you an exception...

[KuReshtin]

"Or when sounding like A, as in neighbor and weigh."

True exception: seize.

This is true, but it was the only rule/guideline I could think of in the English language that I could use to explain the theory of Exception proving the rule. :smallsmile:

[Supagoof]

...
You weren't convinced already? Show me a trend in English, and I'll show you an exception...
Chuck Norris = Win.

:smalltongue:

[Bryn]

Rule: Words that contain a spelling with the letters I and E are side by side always have the I before the E. (Brief, grievous etc)
Exception: If there is a C before the IE, the order reverse. (receive, deceive)

Saying: "I before E, except after C."

"Or when sounding like A, as in neighbor and weigh."

True exception: seize.

Though really, the saying should go more like:
"I before E, except after C, or if you flip a coin and get tails."
There are more exceptions to that rule than there are words that follow it, I think. It's more of a guideline than a rule...

http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/ar-ibe1.htm
More information than you need or want, I expect :smallamused:

[Telonius]

Chuck Norris = Win.

:smalltongue:

Exception.

Then Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and
"Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s Black Knight and
Benito Mussolini and The Blue Meanie and
Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie
Robocop, the Terminator, Captain Kirk, and Darth Vader
Lo Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger
Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan,
Spock, The Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan
all came out of nowhere lightning fast
and they kicked Chuck Norris in his cowboy ass

[Keld Denar]

Chuck Norris = Win.

The entire O-Chul thread....all 20+ pages of it...

[Ascension]

No, it's more like where if I say "It's really strange that Chuck Norris got killed in Way of the Dragon," the fact that I state that it's an exception for him to die proves that there's a general rule that he's too badass to stop living.

That's when the exception proves the (existence of) the rule.

[Lady Tialait]

Exception.

Then Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and
"Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s Black Knight and
Benito Mussolini and The Blue Meanie and
Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie
Robocop, the Terminator, Captain Kirk, and Darth Vader
Lo Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger
Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan,
Spock, The Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan
all came out of nowhere lightning fast
and they kicked Chuck Norris in his cowboy ass


It was the bloodiest battle the world ever saw....

*lowers her head in remorse*