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View Full Version : [Origins] 4e Wins no Origins Awards



Mark Hall
2009-07-06, 04:22 PM
http://www.critical-hits.com/2009/06/27/origins-awards-2009/

Nominated in 2, lost in 2. Wizards won some, but none for 4e.

Panda-s1
2009-07-06, 04:26 PM
Oh well, better luck with the ENnies, I suppose.

Jack Zander
2009-07-06, 04:37 PM
That's because 4e doesn't deserve any awards.

*runs for cover*

Neo
2009-07-06, 04:39 PM
yeah, unless there's a category for 'most artistic use of white space' then they'll probably not get much.

Gralamin
2009-07-06, 04:44 PM
http://www.critical-hits.com/2009/06/27/origins-awards-2009/

Nominated in 2, lost in 2. Wizards won some, but none for 4e.

I only see 4e once on that page (Roleplaying Games) so shouldn't that be Nominated 1, lost 1? It looks like the PHB lost to Mouseguard, which hasn't nearly polarized the community as much as 4e has, so overall its understandable why it won.

Totally Guy
2009-07-06, 04:45 PM
Can anyone tell me more about this Mouse Guard game? Can you appreciate it without ever having read the reference material? It looked interesting in the shop.

Mando Knight
2009-07-06, 04:49 PM
I only see 4e once on that page (Roleplaying Games) so shouldn't that be Nominated 1, lost 1?The Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide for Fourth Edition was also in there, and lost alongside the KotOR campaign guide.
It looks like the PHB lost to Mouseguard, which hasn't nearly polarized the community as much as 4e has, so overall its understandable why it won.
I had never heard of it before now.

Knaight
2009-07-06, 04:58 PM
Mouse guard is a game set in a Redwall-esque world that uses a simplified version of Burning Wheel for mechanics. Its very well written, with well done examples, and has a very good setting. The mechanics are also very good, although it is very structured, which was seen as a bit divisive to the Burning Wheel people, although Burning Empires did it first and was where the divide actually was caused. Its an extremely impressive work that deserved the award more than fourth edition. It would also probably have edged out 3.5 or 3.0 has they been in the running instead, but they came out in the wrong year, and neatly avoided having to deal with Burning wheel at all.

The other one, for supplement I'm less sure about, but I know that Serenity uses the cortex system, a polyhedral system sort of like Savage Worlds, with a few big differences. Its a pretty good system, but there were some debates on whether the Serenity adaptation was well done. The pervasive view was that it was fairly well done, however I'm not sure to what extent the supplement was rules, and what extent setting info. That said there is a pretty high probability that it deserved the award just as much as the Forgotten Realms book did.

Kletian999
2009-07-06, 05:00 PM
Who would nominate the FR "Campaign" guide. That book is only read by "DMs that really love Forgotten Realms and don't mind the timeskip" which anyone can admit is a small group. They should have nominated a "X Power" book or Adventurer's Vault.

Gralamin
2009-07-06, 05:02 PM
The Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide for Fourth Edition was also in there, and lost alongside the KotOR campaign guide.
I seem to of Censored Forgotten Realms from being part of D&D in my brain.


I had never heard of it before now.

See Knaight's description.

Grynning
2009-07-06, 05:03 PM
I've seen the mouse guard book before, and frankly, I'm surprised it won. The rules didn't seem to be anything special and the setting seemed to be nothing more than a bunch of Redwall fanfic stealthily avoiding copyright violations. Anyone have any experience with it who can explain why it won?

Edit: Apparently it's based on a relatively successful comic series (http://www.mouseguard.net/books.htm). However, Redwall still predates it by almost 20 years.

Freelance Henchman
2009-07-06, 05:06 PM
How good was the competition? Did it lose to something really good?

-Cor-
2009-07-06, 05:12 PM
My only response to the OP is...

And?

As far as Mouseguard goes, I haven't heard of it until now... I used to love the Redwall series of books by Brian Jacques (I think I'm spelling his name right), back when I was 12-14, but not sure it would really resonate with me now. Might have to look for this next time I'm in my local gaming store.

arguskos
2009-07-06, 05:18 PM
My only response to the OP is...

And?
Knowing Mark Hall, he probably just found it interesting, and wanted to share. :smalltongue:

Also, meh. Gogo mediocre showing 4e, better luck next year. :smallsmile:

KIDS
2009-07-06, 05:20 PM
This is the first time I heard about this reward, but I should check out some of its processes later.

-Cor-
2009-07-06, 05:31 PM
Knowing Mark Hall, he probably just found it interesting, and wanted to share. :smalltongue:

Yeah... I don't know him and was curious if this was supposed to be some commentary on the game that was a foregone conclusion to him, but in no way to me.

::shrug::

Kurald Galain
2009-07-06, 05:58 PM
Nominated in 2, lost in 2. Wizards won some, but none for 4e.

I can't say that surprises me, not in the least - for the same reason that Teen Explosion-packed Action Movie #17 doesn't win an Oscar, regardless of how well it sells over the summer.

Mando Knight
2009-07-06, 06:18 PM
I can't say that surprises me, not in the least - for the same reason that Teen Explosion-packed Action Movie #17 doesn't win an Oscar, regardless of how well it sells over the summer.

Well, the Oscars haven't been worth much ever since the 70s. The fact that The Return of the King is remarkable for being both a high-grossing and award-winning film should be a sign. :smallannoyed:

Indon
2009-07-06, 07:05 PM
Well, were there a 'most carefully balanced RPG' category, I think it'd be in the running, but outside of that, 4th edition didn't exactly bring much to the table in terms of tabletop gaming. I'm not surprised a game with an entirely fresh setting came out on top.

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-06, 07:42 PM
I've seen the mouse guard book before, and frankly, I'm surprised it won. The rules didn't seem to be anything special and the setting seemed to be nothing more than a bunch of Redwall fanfic stealthily avoiding copyright violations. Anyone have any experience with it who can explain why it won?

Edit: Apparently it's based on a relatively successful comic series (http://www.mouseguard.net/books.htm). However, Redwall still predates it by almost 20 years.

Psh. Redwall came out in, what, 86? Steamboat Willie came out in 28, man. Redwall. Total Mikey Mouse rip-off. Pushaw!
;)

From what I understand, isn't red-wall basically anthropomorphic animals-instead-of-people, havin good ol' generic fantasy-novel adventures?
Mouse Guard is not exactly like this, from what I'm told. Perhaps a bit more Musketeers, but also they are mouse sized mouse people, (Perhaps in some version of the real world?). Also, suprisingly gritty?

I'm not the best person to ask, admittedly, having read neither. :)

erikun
2009-07-06, 08:54 PM
From what I understand, isn't red-wall basically anthropomorphic animals-instead-of-people, havin good ol' generic fantasy-novel adventures?
Mouse Guard is not exactly like this, from what I'm told. Perhaps a bit more Musketeers, but also they are mouse sized mouse people, (Perhaps in some version of the real world?). Also, suprisingly gritty?
You understand well, as Mouse Guard will be surprisingly violent if you're expecting Saturday morning cartoons. (The first book has one character eaten by a snake, and another killed by hungry crabs.) To be fair, Redwall gets just as bloody - with Redwall, though, you're pretty much guaranteed that the good guys are good, the bad guys are bad, and betrayal is rare at its worst.

Having read through the RPG, I rather like how it's setup. Most of the roles are simple, and it's easy to figure out what you'll need to roll. Sadly, my group is only interested in D&D 4e at the moment, so no Patrolling for me.

Knaight
2009-07-06, 09:22 PM
They are both pretty bloody, although Mouse Guard is probably the grimmer and darker of the two series. And it is very, very different from Red Wall, and in my opinion better written. Animal as human characters are not highly original, you might as well claim that Redwall is a watered down Watership Down, since the author wasn't good enough to pull off full animals. That is an absurd claim.

elliott20
2009-07-06, 09:59 PM
I tried mouseguard, and while I liked the game fine enough, I just felt like our characters just couldn't get a break, which I found rather amusing, to say the least.

Still, 4E not winning? meh, not too surprising to me.

TheDarkOne
2009-07-07, 12:48 AM
Wow, Mouseguard is a real game! I thought it was just something the Full Frontal Nerdity guy made up for his comic.

Myrmex
2009-07-07, 01:33 AM
My only response to the OP is...

And?

As far as Mouseguard goes, I haven't heard of it until now... I used to love the Redwall series of books by Brian Jacques (I think I'm spelling his name right), back when I was 12-14, but not sure it would really resonate with me now. Might have to look for this next time I'm in my local gaming store.

Come on, children's fantasy full of cutesy animals and obvious racial overtones? No, not even a little?

Ninetail
2009-07-07, 08:43 PM
It would be more surprising if they had won anything.

I mean, "controversial new edition of game loses popularity contest" is almost up there with "water still wet" as far as headlines go.

Asbestos
2009-07-07, 11:46 PM
Man, now I have to get Mouse Guard and GM rabbit riding mice. My gf has been bugging me to pick it up for a while, now if she gets wind of it winning an award she'll never let it go.

Oblivious
2009-07-08, 12:00 AM
I don't find this surprising. 4e is attempting to reach new audiences who may have been turned off by some of the traditional trappings of roleplaying games. Of course, existing roleplayers like the existing trappings of roleplaying games, so a panel of old-school gamers aren't going to favor it.

Panda-s1
2009-07-09, 02:46 AM
I don't find this surprising. 4e is attempting to reach new audiences who may have been turned off by some of the traditional trappings of roleplaying games. Of course, existing roleplayers like the existing trappings of roleplaying games, so a panel of old-school gamers aren't going to favor it.

Wait a second, that doesn't even make sense, 4e was beat by a completely new game. And for the record, I may not be an old school gamer, but I think 4e keeps plenty of trappings of roleplaying games (whatever these trappings may be, I dunno my D&D playing style hasn't changed a whole lot since converting).

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-09, 08:08 AM
Wait a second, that doesn't even make sense, 4e was beat by a completely new game. And for the record, I may not be an old school gamer, but I think 4e keeps plenty of trappings of roleplaying games (whatever these trappings may be, I dunno my D&D playing style hasn't changed a whole lot since converting).

The new game isn't held to any particular standard, whereas when the judges see "4e D&D" on the cover they expect it to resemble 1e-3e D&D, which it does in many respects but not at all in others. The things that were removed from 4e are those "old-school trappings" and were exactly what made many people like D&D; remove those, and they're going to prefer something else.

Threeshades
2009-07-09, 10:07 AM
They are both pretty bloody, although Mouse Guard is probably the grimmer and darker of the two series. And it is very, very different from Red Wall, and in my opinion better written. Animal as human characters are not highly original, you might as well claim that Redwall is a watered down Watership Down, since the author wasn't good enough to pull off full animals. That is an absurd claim.

Does that have anything to do with the Comic Mouse Guard? Of which I have a book standing around here somewhere?

The Rose Dragon
2009-07-09, 10:09 AM
Does that have anything to do with the Comic Mouse Guard? Of which I have a book standing around here somewhere?

From the description of the game, yes, it does.

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-09, 10:17 AM
Yeah... I don't know him and was curious if this was supposed to be some commentary on the game that was a foregone conclusion to him, but in no way to me.

::shrug::

Not every post about 4e is intended as an invitation to a flamewar.

obnoxious
sig

The New Bruceski
2009-07-09, 10:39 AM
The new game isn't held to any particular standard, whereas when the judges see "4e D&D" on the cover they expect it to resemble 1e-3e D&D, which it does in many respects but not at all in others. The things that were removed from 4e are those "old-school trappings" and were exactly what made many people like D&D; remove those, and they're going to prefer something else.

Unless you have an essay from one of the judges titled "Why I Voted This Way," that's an awful lot of assumption of their thought processes.

hewhosaysfish
2009-07-09, 10:50 AM
Does that have anything to do with the Comic Mouse Guard? Of which I have a book standing around here somewhere?

Yes. Here is a review. (http://www.gnomestew.com/reviews/mouse-guard-rpg-review-want-to-play-a-mouse-with-a-sword) Enjoy.

longtooth878
2009-07-09, 12:14 PM
I am not shocked that did did not win any awards. Not because of anything that has been said about why I hate "X" edition. Historically when a game system goes through a new addition that mostly revamps that systems mechanics no one is impressed with it. There are few exceptions to this rule but mostly games that go through a “new and improved” edition ends up going the way of the Dodo. I don’t know how this edition will end up only time will tell. The game might of won some awards if it was called some thing else like “This is not WOW but kind of” or “Fantasy and Flash”. I know I am only joking with the name of the game but all I am saying is that historically if you change the game you are selling and call it the same thing and a good number fans are disgruntled about it, don’t be shocked when you don’t win any awards.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-09, 12:58 PM
Unless you have an essay from one of the judges titled "Why I Voted This Way," that's an awful lot of assumption of their thought processes.

I was responding to this:


Wait a second, that doesn't even make sense, 4e was beat by a completely new game. And for the record, I may not be an old school gamer, but I think 4e keeps plenty of trappings of roleplaying games (whatever these trappings may be, I dunno my D&D playing style hasn't changed a whole lot since converting).

I was hypothesizing that the reason the judges voted against it was that (A) they don't have certain expectations for a new game, so they would be less impressed by the old and more by the new, and (B) that the trappings the judges liked weren't the ones kept, that's all. Those seem like reasonable assumptions to me--and at least more probable than "The judges hate 4e with an undying passion" or "The judges really really like mice."

Panda-s1
2009-07-09, 07:47 PM
The new game isn't held to any particular standard, whereas when the judges see "4e D&D" on the cover they expect it to resemble 1e-3e D&D, which it does in many respects but not at all in others. The things that were removed from 4e are those "old-school trappings" and were exactly what made many people like D&D; remove those, and they're going to prefer something else.

But what do you mean "old school trappings"? There was a lot that was taken out of 3rd ed. when it came out, so what's that deal?

And in a competition between D&D and Mouse Guard, why should "old school trappings" matter? The competition is for best role-playing game that came out in the year before, not which game has more "old school trappings." If the reason why 4e lost is because it wasn't like previous editions of D&D, then that indicates bias.

Kurald Galain
2009-07-10, 01:43 AM
If the reason why 4e lost is because it wasn't like previous editions of D&D, then that indicates bias.
I think that's the point - some people want to believe that it only lost because the jury was biased. And hence they assume that the jury wanted "old school trappings".

Oblivious
2009-07-10, 02:05 AM
I don't mean to suggest that the critics are biased, just that they aren't part of the game's target demographic. The new Transformers movie is being panned by critics, but is making tons of money. D&D isn't set in a literary masterpiece (god, the D&D fiction is horrible), but it's enjoyable for what it is.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-10, 07:51 AM
But what do you mean "old school trappings"? There was a lot that was taken out of 3rd ed. when it came out, so what's that deal?

I mean the things that have been in the game from 1e to 3e, like the Great Wheel, 9 alignments, Vancian casting, etc.--you know, the stuff where if you mention the Blood War, Chaotic Good, or 9th level spells, people immediately think D&D.


And in a competition between D&D and Mouse Guard, why should "old school trappings" matter? The competition is for best role-playing game that came out in the year before, not which game has more "old school trappings." If the reason why 4e lost is because it wasn't like previous editions of D&D, then that indicates bias.

1) You can't guarantee they didn't have bias. Just sayin'.

2) D&D, AD&D, and Dragon Magazine have all made the Origins Award Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_Award), indicating that they're considered among the best of the best, along with classic and popular games like Starcraft and Diplomacy. If they all made it in because the judges considered their "old-school trappings" to be what made them unique and a good game, then that would explain why 3e and 4e wouldn't win one (having moved away from some of those aspects, the latter more so in the fluff department and the former more so in the crunch department).

Satyr
2009-07-10, 08:22 AM
Without knowing much about the winning game, but can't it just be that Mouse Guard is just a good game, and in a direct concurrence the better choice?

Assuming a conspiracy because the jury's decision doesn't congruate with the own personal preferences is ridiculous and pretentious.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-10, 08:35 AM
Without knowing much about the winning game, but can't it just be that Mouse Guard is just a good game, and in a direct concurrence the better choice?

Assuming a conspiracy because the jury's decision doesn't congruate with the own personal preferences is ridiculous and pretentious.

Well, obviously it's completely impossible to get a better game than 4e, so.... :smallwink:

I was addressing Panda-s1's particular point that 4e shouldn't be beaten by a new game and that it was probably because the judges were biased, not saying that that's the most likely answer or even what I think the answer is. (I don't really like 4e anyway, so the judges being biased against 4e is fine by me.) It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a hypothesis.

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-10, 08:36 AM
Without knowing much about the winning game, but can't it just be that Mouse Guard is just a good game, and in a direct concurrence the better choice?

Assuming a conspiracy because the jury's decision doesn't congruate with the own personal preferences is ridiculous and pretentious.

This.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham

mikeejimbo
2009-07-10, 09:56 AM
Whoa, The Trail of Cthulhu had Kenneth Hite AND Robin D. Laws on it? Man, I need to get this.

warrl
2009-07-10, 10:17 AM
Were I a judge of such things, I would tend to discount "old school trappings".

On the theory that a re-release of an old winner, even a hall-of-fame winner, with minor cosmetic changes shouldn't be an easy route to the win.

What's new, what's different, what's better than the predecessors and the competition?

Panda-s1
2009-07-10, 05:42 PM
Well, obviously it's completely impossible to get a better game than 4e, so.... :smallwink:

I was addressing Panda-s1's particular point that 4e shouldn't be beaten by a new game and that it was probably because the judges were biased, not saying that that's the most likely answer or even what I think the answer is. (I don't really like 4e anyway, so the judges being biased against 4e is fine by me.) It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a hypothesis.

Wow, way to put words into my mouth... I said at the beginning:

Oh well, better luck with the ENnies, I suppose.
It's too bad, but I honestly don't care 'cause this isn't gonna stop me from playing, or anyone really. I might stop some people from playing (though if your gonna not play a game because it wasn't considered the game of the year, then ew), but it definitely will get more people to play Mouse Guard.

The point I'm trying to get at is I don't think any bias is good. If 4e lost because the judges didn't think it had enough "old school trappings" then that's an issue, and then the question becomes "Why did Mouse Guard win over Trail of Cthulhu?" which if we're looking at just "old school trappings" then it doesn't matter much because either game is relatively new in terms of trappings. If Mouse Guard won because the judges really liked the comic book series alone, then that's an issue of bias. If Trail of Cthulhu lost because the judges thought H.P. Lovecraft was a no-talent hack, then that's also an issue.

I think warrl had the right scenario:

Were I a judge of such things, I would tend to discount "old school trappings".

On the theory that a re-release of an old winner, even a hall-of-fame winner, with minor cosmetic changes shouldn't be an easy route to the win.

What's new, what's different, what's better than the predecessors and the competition?
Or at least I'm hoping this is the scenario. Mouse Guard has a lot of good reviews, and I only hear people say good things about it on the internet, so I'm honestly not surprised it won. I am a little surprised 4e lost, but it's the same surprise as Brokeback Mountain not winnning the Academy Award for best picture: everyone thought it would happen, but it didn't (which I'm okay with, 'cause I thought Crash was the better picture). But for all the flak 4e gets for being different from previous editions, there's still a lot it has that's different and antiquated when compared to it's contemporaries, so in a competition judged by professionals it makes sense.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-10, 06:23 PM
Wow, way to put words into my mouth... I said at the beginning:

You said 4e being beat by "a completely new game" "doesn't even make sense"; if you didn't care, why did you phrase it that way? It's like if your friend got the flavor of the day at an ice cream place and you said, "Wait, you got this completely new flavor instead of tried-and-true chocolate? That doesn't even make sense! I mean, I've been having my ice cream the same way...."

Panda-s1
2009-07-10, 09:01 PM
You said 4e being beat by "a completely new game" "doesn't even make sense"; if you didn't care, why did you phrase it that way? It's like if your friend got the flavor of the day at an ice cream place and you said, "Wait, you got this completely new flavor instead of tried-and-true chocolate? That doesn't even make sense! I mean, I've been having my ice cream the same way...."

No, I meant his reasoning made no sense. He's basically saying 4e lost because the judges are old-school gamers and want old school trappings, but Mouse Guard is a completely new game based on a post-D&D system and has very little old school trappings, and it beat 4e. If the judges were looking for old school trappings, then why did they choose Mouse Guard over 4e and Trail of Cthulhu? Even ToC, while being based on a mythos older than either game, uses a very new system, so it doesn't explain why ToC lost to Mouse Guard either.

Warrl's explanation makes sense as it both explains why 4e lost and Mouse Guard won, even hints at why maybe ToC lost ("What's new, what's different"), and doesn't involve bias.

Ninetail
2009-07-10, 10:44 PM
Were I a judge of such things, I would tend to discount "old school trappings".

On the theory that a re-release of an old winner, even a hall-of-fame winner, with minor cosmetic changes shouldn't be an easy route to the win.

What's new, what's different, what's better than the predecessors and the competition?

I think this is likely to have had more impact, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the controversial changes hurt its chances too.

I would speculate that:

1) The "sequel effect" came into play. Ever notice how sequels to Best Picture movies rarely win Best Picture Oscars, or even nominations? One of the reasons is that the voters tend to feel that they've "already won" the award (because the original did) and that there are other deserving movies to honor. The Godfather 2 is the exception that always gets cited... but both D&D and AD&D have won and are Lifetime Hall-of-Fame members, or whatever. So, another award for the latest edition of AD&D? Or... honor a new game?

2) The controversies had some impact, too. If you were a voter, and you can't imagine D&D without Vancian casting, you're not going to vote for 4e, simple as that.

3) There was a LOT to read on the subject of 4e. It was all over the place, relatively speaking. By the time voting came around, its innovations didn't feel very new. On the other hand, there's Mouse Guard, which is a very well put-together game, which hasn't gotten crushing amounts of attention to and argument over every detail of its system, and which is based on another system (Burning Wheel) that was itself pretty well-received, by most accounts. So...

4) Plus, because it bears repeating, Mouse Guard is a game that's put together really well. Enough so to deserve a win on its own merits. I don't doubt that other factors helped its outcome, but "biased judges stole it!" is sheer delusion. This isn't Florida/Minnesota. ^_-

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-10, 11:04 PM
No, I meant his reasoning made no sense. He's basically saying 4e lost because the judges are old-school gamers and want old school trappings, but Mouse Guard is a completely new game based on a post-D&D system and has very little old school trappings, and it beat 4e.

Ohhh. I completely misinterpreted what you were saying due to lack of tone. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Totally Guy
2009-07-11, 04:40 AM
I decided to buy Mouse Guard based on the good feedback I'd seen elsewhere after seing it in this thread. It just arrived this morning.:smallsmile:

Panda-s1
2009-07-12, 03:10 AM
I decided to buy Mouse Guard based on the good feedback I'd seen elsewhere after seing it in this thread. It just arrived this morning.:smallsmile:

Ooh, how is it?

Totally Guy
2009-07-12, 03:09 PM
Ooh, how is it?

It's interesting, at first I thought it was like nWoD because you roll for successes and add dice rather than adding modifiers and scoring numbers.

But it's got some odd mechanics.

There's a Weather Watcher skill which when used you carry out an opposed check against the randomness of the season, then if you win the player says "It's going to rain" and next session it rains. You can't ask for weather that's too innapproriate for the season.

Special rules come in for when you fight a Mouse or Weasel with the intent to kill. You've got to win the conflict without taking too much damage yourself, if you take too much then the opponent cannnot be killed on this occasion, and vice versa if the enemy is winning.

I've spoilered the "stat block" for a Beaver.

Beaver Nature 7
Gnawing, Building, Swimming, Tunnelling

The beaver can use it's number to do the listed things. If you were to fight it you're pretty much fighting a number 7. So it's not all about fighting stuff. Plus you can't kill a beaver in a straight fight because it's 2 sizes bigger than you so it will always survive unless you use science or an army.

The sample missions look ok. But I don't know how long they'll take to go through, it says they're a couple of hours but I'm looking at it and thinking that you can do it in maybe 6 dice rolls. But I'll have to play it first.

Setting seems very strong. But I'm worried that the players may have difficulty affecting the world. A lot of the challeges are seasonal meaning that the same problems will happen next year. The mouseguard will always be needed and the towns will always need saving.

But I'd like to give it a go and see how it all plays out. I bet it does what it sets out to do very well.

Cybren
2009-07-12, 09:45 PM
Well, the Oscars haven't been worth much ever since the 70s. The fact that The Return of the King is remarkable for being both a high-grossing and award-winning film should be a sign. :smallannoyed:

I'm pretty sure you mean never, you know.

Panda-s1
2009-07-12, 10:47 PM
It's interesting, at first I thought it was like nWoD because you roll for successes and add dice rather than adding modifiers and scoring numbers.

But it's got some odd mechanics.


It seems to be a lot more focused on roleplaying than anything, which is cool, and kinda makes sense, I mean humans fighting winter is one thing, mice fighting winter is like having a constant blizzard outside, or some similar effect. It's not a complete analogue of humans as mice.

It's too bad your mouse character can't be a beaver slayer, though (god, that sounds wrong...).