View Full Version : Setonian Empire CS - old races renewed

2005-07-28, 08:29 AM
The Setonian Empire Campaign Setting - 1st part, the origins of the races (copyright and all the stuff :))

It's a fresh idiotism of mine, comment it please :)

So I have been RPG-ing for quite a long time, mostly DnD and I found out quitea lot flaws in the concept.
Mostly with the races (PC, NPC, monster). Just have a look at the Monsters manual and you'll freak out right there. If i remember right "orcs are always raiding, or planning to raid". Having done one of the most profilic race with this one sentence is kinda lame. Also is the "dimensional gate thing". And since every race has it's own flaws I decided to bring in some fresh air.

-Humans dominate, but they seem to be the weakest race next to the kobolds.
-Elves are sooooo agile and soooo beautiful that they receive +2 to dex. In publications elves are nearly gods compared to humans, but in the rolebooks it only a little dexterity bonus. Also the ****in cliches about elves make them less fun to play.
-Dwarves: they have something to do with stones, underground, ale, and kingdoms. They hate elves and orcs... soooo stereotypic.
-Halflings just dont make much sense: a good-aligned race, with every PC or NPC halfling beeing a thief...
-The problems with the gnomes are the ones which the Giant descripted already. That crazy illusionist-trickster-invetor cliche is anything but good.
-The orcs came from some dimensional gate but there are some ogres from somewhere. Not to mention the goblins, who are sadistic and always hideing. Theres something to do with trolls, but noone knows what they are. Anthro-folk (gnolls, kobolds and the like) have an int score of 10 at least, but they can barely speak and live like rats. And of course this last thread is whole evil. Maraduing orcs and goblins form secret alliances, then humans elves and dwarves beat them up like hell. and then it start again... i feel pity for this concept.

So let's see what can be done. This is the way I created the races. If you like the concept I'll clarify things later.

But first of all: the technical advance of the world. I lower it to a scale of the late roman empire. Dont wanna see airplanes bombing orc villages. Also if i lower the techniques, I bring the races together, not letting the goblins live in **** while the gnomes wander around in some mechano-striders.
And before i forget: No common language. Just simply no. In Europe there were no common laguage, so i dont know why it is necessarly for a fantasy game. Languages will be more country-aligned, not race-aligned. Latin was not a "common language", it was only spoken by the elite.

Human domination: Have you ever played frogotten realms (very human-dominated) ? I bet that the party consisted some elf, a dwarf, a halfling, a kobold, and maybe one human. This is human domination? For a human-dominated party i must erase all other races? Or simply say that the world is not human-dominated. My first task will be the strongest stereotypes, the elves and the dwarves. While i dont wanna erase them completely, i want them to "fall out from their grace" I dont have a clue yet, so i finish them later. For now lets see the "monsters". I want some monsters to be PC classes, that would bring some fresh air to the game. I have a symphaty for orcs and goblinoids, lets use them. Why are they evil? Where did they come from? Forget the dimensional gates and evil wizards and eviler gods. Where did humans came? Evolution or creation? Lets say evolution for now (it also does some with deities, bring them back later). If its evolution theres no need for orcs beeing evil and gnomes beeing good. Every race is neutral. Lets say that from homo erectus did not only spawn homo sapiens. Lets say that a strong collateral side (like the neanderthal one) resulted in orcs. I kinda like that idea. They say that recenty archeologists found some small humanoid skeletons in celebes. Maybe if they dont "die out" they could be the gnomes. So right now i got humans, orcs and gnomes. Thats not enough, lets bring in goblins.
This gives me a weird idea. If we cross goblins with humans we get something around hobgoblins, right? Also the goblin-orc mating would give us something as strong as an orc, but stealthy and goblin-like... guess what? We got bugbears. But it would result in these new crossbreeds grew in number and it wont be good having one bugbear for one goblin, right? A quick idea again. The mule. When we cross two domesticated forms of the wild horse (horse and donkey) it results in a mule every time, but the mule is steril. Lets apply this for our hobgoblins and bugbears. They are barren, unproductive. Maybe they are treated as inferiors for this, maybe they are often slaves. But i got only two crossbreeds yet. I find it interesting, lets look for others. Orc and human give us half-orcs. The half-gnomes are the only remaining ones now. So what we recive by a orc-gnome mating? I dont know yet, but maybe it is strong but small, maybe a bit furry and it can have mental scores between this two. I know it. The dwarves. No more inbred orc-dwarf warring, that sounds good.
I cheat for now. As i said i dont want to eradicate elves completely. I just want to strip elves from their pride. Lets make them crossbreeds. Mongrels. What pairings remain? The gnome-human and the gnome-goblin. I think the gnome-human would do. Height between this two, and if we say that our gnomes more like the forest gnomes than the rock gnomes, than it sounds exactly right.
I just realized that the hobgoblins and bugbears have a +1 level adjustment. I tought of altering the races, but its not necessarely. Remember, they cannot breed, so theres no risk that they will take over the world.
The goblin-gnome crossing remains only. That gave me a hard time. I could erase it saying that is genetically not possible, but that will ruin the fun. Lets think openly. It will be something small, tricky, stealthy, intelligent, dexterous and maybe has some goblin cruelty in it. Intelligent, stealthy, dexterous, cruel. And not so tall. Think of "normal" dnd. Which race has a description like this? The drows. Okay its hard to imagine, i know. But lets take away the magics and matriarchy from the dark elves. Maybe we can twist their features a bit. I have a picture in my mind of a dark- plain-skinned, white- thick-haired (genetics are capable of everything you know, maybe they are a strange kind of albino -> that would explain the red eyes) small figure. Just forget that in other worlds they are a subtype of elves. Also without inbred magic they will lose some of their potential. Maybe gnomes can have their Dancing lights & co. while the drow keep their darkness and faerie fire. But no spell resitance. A quick thought: both goblins and gnomes have -2 STR so its likely the drow will have -2 also. These changes will take them a level adjustment level from them, so they became +1 LA. I just noticed that every half-goblin have +1 LA. Maybe the goblin blood has something to do with it :)

So finally we have four main races: The humans, the orcs, the goblins and the gnomes. They sould be the dominant races. The six cross-breed races are the hobgoblins, the bugbears, the drows, the elves, the dwarves and the half-orcs (hey this sucks.. we have 3 half-orc races, i should find a name from them later). They are much more fewer in numbers than the dominant races.

2005-07-28, 08:29 AM
Humanoid races

Humans have the ability to organize and study, which allowed them a great success throughout history. Their skin and eye color can be the usual ones. Altough in the current CS white and brown skins are usual.

* Medium size.
* Human base land speed is 30 feet.
* 1 extra feat at 1st level.
* 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
* Favored Class: Any.

Men of the great steppes and high mountains, the orc is a surviving machine. They are a bit shorter than human and have a very muscular build. Their skin renges from grey to tan. Their hair is usually black, sometimes hard shades of red.

* +4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* An orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Low-Light Vision.
* Favored Class: Barbarian.

The more "refined" race of all, or least they think so. They have a brain mutation which allows them casting some cantrips without education. They are small but well bouit for their height. Their skin ranges from white to dark tan with hair colours of blonde, brown, and black. They have only a small facial hair.

* +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength.
* Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
* Gnome base land speed is 20 feet.
* Low-Light Vision.
* Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against spells cast by gnomes.
* +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
* +2 racial bonus on will saves.
* Spell-Like Abilities: A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day-dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + gnome’s Cha modifier + spell level.
* Favored Class: Sorcerer.

The most bestial side-branch of the homo sapiens, their community-handling feelings are retarded, which results in something which other races see as cruelty. Originally a savannah-living sub-race, they are night being naturally, but they can operate in daylight well, since the ones who live under a bright sky become adjusted to the natural circumstances. (they take a daylight adaption feat)

* -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma.
* Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
* A goblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Superior Low-Light Vision.
* Light Sensitivity: Goblins are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
* +4 racial bonus on Move Silently, Spot and Listen checks.
* Favored Class: Rogue.


Half-Orcs (Garves)
As humans and orcs are the most closer to each other in the evolution tree, the mixing of the two races doesn't give us something really new. Just a simple mix of the two races, they usually fit in well in either civilization.

* +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* Garf base land speed is 30 feet.
* Low-Light Vision.
* Favored Class: Barbarian.
* Human Blood, Orc Blood. For any magical effect or items requiring either an orc or a human, treat Garves as if they were.

Children of the human-gnome mating. The combination of human muscularity and fine gnome bones results in a dexterous, but fragile race. Unfortunately, the deviouos gnome brain don't take the crossbreeding too well, the elves are suffering a kind of insomnia. Elves cannot sleep, not even by magical effects. Those who can't learn the meditation technique mostly become sick and die an early age. They tend to be quite handsome, in some states they serve as prostitutes for humans and gnomes. The word "elf" meant being awake in old gnome laguage.

* +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
* Medium size.
* Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
* Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
* Low-Light Vision.
* +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
* Favored Class: Ranger.
* Human Blood, Gnome Blood. For any magical effect or items requiring either a gnome or a human, treat Elves as if they were.

Nearly powerful as an orc, but only a little taller than a gnome, dwarves resemble of a bearded, short, heavy human. The devious gnome brain only resulted in a massive determination for dwarves, they are well known for their stubbornness.

* +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load
* Low-Light Vision.
* Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
* +2 racial bonus on fortitude saves.
* 1 / - Damage Reduction.
* Favored Class: Fighter.
* Orc Blood, Gnome Blood. For any magical effect or items requiring either a gnome or an orc, treat Dwarves as if they were.

The mixture of humans and goblins gives us a race with human organization and goblin ferocity. The militarist hobgoblins.

* +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
* Medium size.
* A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Low-Light Vision.
* +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
* Favored Class: Fighter.
* Level adjustment +1.
* Human Blood, Goblin Blood. For any magical effect or items requiring either a goblin or a human, treat Hobgoblins as if they were.

Strong as their orc parent, and stealthy by their goblin legacy, they would do excellent skirmishers if they didn't lose their mind so easily (the savage orc nature clearly shows). In some places goblin parents even kill their bugbear children, knowing that he will be a nightmare to handle.

* +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* Low-Light Vision.
* +2 natural armor bonus.
* +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
* Favored Class: Ranger.
* Level adjustment +1.
* Orc Blood, Goblin Blood. For any magical effect or items requiring either an orc or a goblin, treat Bugbears as if they were.

Since their parents are the most far away from each oher, the chlidren is a bit weird. The drow has got dark gray or black skin (reverse albino), thick, long white hair (albino) with an earlock. They are much more handier then their ancestors. Their strange genetics give them weak, red (albino) eyes which are only comfortable in the darkness. They have some of the mental abilities of their gnome parent, able to cast simple spells, but they share the cruel nature with their goblin parent. The term of "Dark elves" is used for the drows, since "elf" originally means keeping awake in old gnomeand drows suffer the same insomnia as elves do..

* -2 Strenght +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution.
* Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
* A drow’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Superior Low-Light Vision.
* Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
* Spell-Like Abilities: Drow can use the following spell-like abilities once per day: dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire. Caster level equals the drow’s class levels.
* Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.
* Favored Class: Wizard.
* Level adjustment +1.
* Gnome Blood, Goblin Blood. For any magical effect or items requiring either a gnome or a goblin, treat Drows as if they were.


Lonely hunters of the mountains, swamps and forests, they are reclusive and almost animalistic. Their language consist only a few words, and they rather use face gestures among each other. They simply think of the homo sapiens as a prey. Only the most intelligent ones can communicate with civilized people.
The mountain ogre is caled yeti, while the forest ogre is called bigfoot.

* +10 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -6 Intelligence, -4 Charisma.
* Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
* Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
* An ogre’s base land speed is 40 feet.
* Low-Light Vision.
* Racial Hit Dice: An ogre begins with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.
* Racial Skills: An ogre’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 7 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Climb, Listen, and Spot.
* Racial Feats: An ogre’s giant levels give it two feats.
* +5 natural armor bonus.
* Favored Class: Barbarian.
* Level adjustment +2.

Trolls (not finished yet, the regenaration gives me a hard time)
Trolls are a domesticated form of the ogre, legend says that early gnomes selected the most powerful and cunning ogres and tried to domesticate them to be muscle servants. However, it seems the trolls get out of control, and freed themselves from the gnome enslavement. They fled into the swamps and woods and regained theirhunter lifestyle. Trolls are able to communicate in a basic language. They are few in number and tend to live in small camps in groups of 4-6 trolls. A troll phycichally resembles to an Ogre.

* +12 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +12 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma.
* Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
* Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
* A troll’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Low-light vision.
* Racial Hit Dice: A troll begins six four levels of giant, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +4, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +5, Ref +2, and Will +2.
* Racial Skills: A troll’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 9 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Listen and Spot.
* Racial Feats: A troll’s giant levels give it three feats.
* +5 natural armor bonus.
* Natural Weapons: Claw (1d6) and bite (1d6).
* Special Attacks: Rend, damage 2d6 + 1½ times Str modifier.
* Special Qualities: Regeneration 5, scent.
* Favored Class: Ranger.
* Level adjustment +5.

2005-07-28, 08:38 AM
Wow, total rantage. I'll check back when you're a bit further down the line.

2005-07-29, 05:07 PM
Any guess to make bugbear less powerful? I'm thinkng about takeing away the CON Bonus and reduce the STR bonus to +2.

2005-07-29, 06:28 PM
To finish the posting, here's the wolrd: http://amanodel.uw.hu/seaton/regions.html

The Fall of the Setonian Empire
Campaign setting for D&D 3.5

The campaigns take place in the lands of the falling Setonian Empire, an empire which once ruled over the most part of the known world. The adventurers can find themselves as servants of a newly formed state, they can make Seatons fall to be faster, or they can even try to stop the carcass on the empire.
The marches and battlefields are full of excited Setonian legionnaires dressed in their famous blue armour, the forests host a great number of rebel freedom-fighters, bandits, and vicious animal humanoids. Up high on snowy mountains and desert dunes dwell the mighty dragons.
Towns and villages give home to the civilized humanoid races. The Humans, Orcs, Gnomes and Goblins live in peace with each other, the conflicts are usually not from racist ideologies but the opposing countries and provinces. Interracial marriages give the world some strage crossbreeds, known as the Elves, Dwarves, Garves, Bugbears, Hobgoblins and Drows.
The stars watch over their followers and help them in nearly every aspect of the life. Clerics, faithful Paladins and chosen Champions spread the fame of their stars. Druids and rangers draw their energy through the nature, while wizards, sorcerers and bards draw their powers directly from the source of all divinity and magic. The magical field around the planet is almost touchable for the very few person who has the intellect to see it.

In the world the remains of the Setonian Empire, the desert Goblin Kharaphutu, the mostly Gnome Valynzearum, the feudalistic High Plains, the power-hungry Ciwelty and Nuevolla, the warfared Westshore, Hard Coast and Deepinborogh, the barbaristic Feherlooh tribes, Brennwan, Ahnswehlt and Marganstorm stuggle against each other to survive in the changing world.

PC Races: Human, Orc, Goblin, Gnome, Hobgoblin, Garf, Bugbear, Dwarf, Elf, Drow.

PC Classes: Barbarian, Bard, Champion, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Gladiator, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard.
NPC Classes: Adept, Aristocrat, Commoner, Expert, Nomad, Priest, Warrior.

Home Locations: Ahnswehlt, Brennwan, Ciwelty, Deepinborough, Feherlooh, Hard Coast, High Plains, Kharaphutu, Marganstorm, Nuevolla, Seaton Province, Valynzearum, Westshore, Al'Amunia.
Languages: Seton, Wellan, Brennwanian, Answehlt, Margran, Feher, Phutu, Valynzear, Swyllth / Draconic, Infernal, Abyssal, Celestial.

Monster Races: Ogre, Yeti, Bigfoot, Troll, Gnoll, Ratmen, Lizardfolk, Tauren, Catfolk.
Monsters: Dragons, Lycantrophies, Vampires, Undead.

Gods: There is one god, the Creator, whose power can be reached through the Saint Stars. The most powerful Saints are: Tyr, Tempus, Ilmater, Hextor, Pelor, Obad-Hai, Ehlonna, Kord. Feel free to use other world's gods as saints in this setting. Corellon&co are okay.
God servants: Angel, Archangel, Archon, Devil, Demon.

2005-07-29, 06:52 PM
>:( Oh.. THAT IS IT! >:(

I can’t believe you’ve included Gnomes on your list and dropped Halflings! And Elves being a mix of Human and Gnome? YUCK!
Who the heck would ever touch a Gnome, especially there? :-X

Halflings are at least appealing to look at, not like those disgusting mutated Gnomes with their oversized heads and disproportionate bodies. :P

If Elves are a mix between Gnome and Human then I move that your game world include them on the endangered species list. In fact, how ‘bout you just get rid of them all together. Blech.
*Stomps off in a huff.

*Re-enters pointing an accusing finger. >:(

You put a Halfling against a Gnome and that Gnome’s gonna get stomped any day.

Halflings rule Gnomes drool.

Take that you Gnome loving Halfling hater!
* extends middle finger. * :P

EDIT:EDIT: I do like the list though... It's actually verry nice work. But please re-introduce the halfling. ;D

2005-07-29, 07:01 PM
Thanks for constuctive criticsm :P

I don't hate halflings, but they are overplayed.
BTW who says gnomes are disgusting? have you ever met one? :P

In my opinion gnomes are similar to halflings in phycsichal appereance. The only main difference that halflings got hair on their foot and gnomes on their face :D

youre the 3rd one to say that halfling are missing, mayhaps i should change gnome to halfling? I do like halfling but if a change i can think about the elf and drow for a nother time again. Lets just say that they look like halflings, but think like gnomes :) maybe +2 dex instead of +2 con.

2005-07-29, 07:13 PM
Actually, the way you have it makes sense.

Perhaps just add the Halflings as a slave race, or generally oppressed people. This would sure explain their tendencies for stealing things all the time.

I just don’t like Gnomes ‘cause they’re always cheating at poker...
They hide cards in their small hands.

2005-07-29, 07:19 PM
Maybe halflings could be orc - gnome halfbreeds.
Tolkien did say they look like little orcs.
Lower their bonus to hide if you think they're overpowered and too rogue oriented. Give them +2 to dex, -2 to wis or -2 to cha.

2005-07-29, 07:19 PM
That's nice, but if you red the article carefully you know that the whole mess was created against stereotypes. No evil orcs, good elves, stealing halflings. In an other setting that slave idea could work well but my efforts were to remove the cliches of the races.

I'm seriously thinking about change the +2 con to +2 dex. Then you can call it halfling :)

Orc-gnome is so dwarf in my opinion... Small, heavy-built, not so charismatic and hairy :D
Yeah, they look like.. from the view-point of a treant :)

2005-07-29, 07:22 PM
While I personally don't agree with your choices (seeing as how I'm an elf-loving, orc/halfling/gnome-hating DM ;D) I have to say that your stuff is quite cool especially the way to explain the existance of the races. Stick with the gnomes imo, it's about time they got portrayed differently. Halflings are more common anyway.

Also, your webserver refuses my connection :(

2005-07-29, 07:30 PM
Thanks :) I do love elves but i wanted to see them in a different way. Tolkien and orlando bloom did it well :) but i do try new things everytime.
Hmm... the server functions to me quite well. Maybe its too far away from you. If you far far away people won't see it then i upload that part in the forums also. :)

2005-07-29, 08:14 PM
whats a Garf..? nm..half orc

2005-07-31, 02:40 AM
I'm getting 404ed when I try to look up the Deepinborogh and Marganstorm. Also, I can't see the map, just <a href="map4.jpg>.

Sounds great so far.

2005-07-31, 03:00 AM
WRT gnomes, you really kept a lot of what makes gnomes the weakest PHB race. I'd suggest a heavy overhaul, making them more than "I have to be a spellcaster, preferably with illusion spells, or I'm useless."

2005-07-31, 03:29 AM
i cant see deepinburough or marganstorm or a map either, also hope that my post on the Setonian Empire thread in the OOC wasn't too long, lol. :) It couldve been longer...a lot longer.

2005-07-31, 04:35 PM
Bugbear = Most Powerful Race

With no Racial HD included and only a +1 LA, who wouldn't wanna play a BugBear in this world?

2005-08-02, 02:39 PM

Bugbear natural armor reduced to +2, also +2 con is no longer

I left out the drow -2 con

Gnomes have +2 dex instead of +2 con, the +2 vs illusion spells disappear, the DC save bonus is now stands for all the spells not just illusions. No +2 alchemy.

Also i mess around with dwarves: no more +2 poison, only +2 fort remains, they gain 1 / - DR. No bonus against spells.

To the PbP players already done their sheets apply these if you can, but if not that dont counts since thats why i call it "testing-game"

2005-08-03, 01:16 AM
I left out the drow -2 con

Aww, poor little Jisika is now such a delicate thing. ;P

2005-08-03, 06:00 AM
Even with the changes bugbears are still better than hobgoblins. IMO even dwarf is better than hobgoblin and dwarves don't have LA. Maybe the hobgoblins are just too weak.

The change to gnomes is good, finally not every gnome is a mad illusionist.

2005-08-03, 06:53 AM
Even with the changes bugbears are still better than hobgoblins. IMO even dwarf is better than hobgoblin and dwarves don't have LA. Maybe the hobgoblins are just too weak.

The change to gnomes is good, finally not every gnome is a mad illusionist.
Tweak! Tweak! Tweak!
Forever we must Tweak!

2005-08-03, 11:35 AM
Hobgoblins have +4 to attributes in total, so does the bugbears. Dwarf has 0. I may edit hobgoblin, but not for the ongoing games. :)

2005-08-06, 03:26 PM
We'll just have to live and see if anyone plays a hobgoblin and how it goes.

An interesting fact that I just learned yesterday and could be relevant (interesting to play with if you want): apparantly not all hybrids are necessarily sterile: there are hybrids of tigers and lions for which the male is sterile, but the female isn't and can produce offsrprings if she mates with a lion or a tiger. Liger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger)

There were also some very, very, very rear occasions in which mules were also furtile. This gives me a thought that perhaps in the future it could be interesting to say which properties are inherited from the mother and which from the father and thus have a flexible way of getting whatever hybrids we want.

2005-10-11, 01:26 PM
If there is still a slot open then I would very much like to play a goblin in your campaign. Are there any restrictions on classes?

2005-11-10, 12:51 AM
Followed your recent link here.

I think Goblins are underpowered. That -2 to strength AND charisma really hurts them. Maybe just a -2 strength.

2005-11-10, 04:47 AM
I used the official goblin to this, and just changed the skills somewhat (since there are no worgs they got +4 to listen and spot instead of ride), so actually they are stronger than the original.

I have a problem around hobgoblin and bugbear. Both should have +1LA but bugbear seems lot stronger. I'm thinking on adding +1feat to hobgoblins (like the human version) and maybe make bugbear natural armor to +1 only.

2005-11-10, 01:04 PM
Yeah I do think Bugbears are stronger, I mean, the charisma hit really doesn't effect most classes they would be taking, and the natural armor + dex + strength is an awesome combo, and you don't lose any of the abilities of the hobgoblin, I think your new idea would fix that. Because right now, I'm not sure why I didn't play a drow, and excluding flavor, a bugbear would have been a good choice too.