PDA

View Full Version : puntgun stats



TheThan
2005-10-29, 01:01 PM
ok i sorta had to move this from another thread. so i made this thread to keep it on the site. Its weapons stats for a shotgun like weapon called a punt gun :
Sample punt gun:


"Punt" Gun
Weapon type: heavy
Weapon proficiency: heavy/artillery/siege (depending on campaign and caliber)
Damage 5d8 ballistic/ piercing (depending on campaign)
Range- 30ft cone (reflex save for half damage, the DC is equal to half the base attack bonus used to fire the gun, rounded down)
Critical 20
Critical damage x2
Requirements- none *
Availability: rare, outlawed
cost varies
SPECIAL
Mounted
Punt guns have recoil similar to cannons. They must be mounted on a sturdy surface before operating. *Such as the deck of a ship or boat or a carriage used by cannons. A punt gun cannot be used unless it is mounted. Mounting a Punt gun takes 3 rounds to perform. Most punt guns are permanently mounted in their positions (usually turrets) *
Reload time
A punt gun takes about one round to reload. Firing a punt gun is considered an attack action. The many shot feat or any other effects that grant multiple ranged attacks in a single round do not function with a punt gun. One may use such feats, abilities or special attacks (such as the full attack action) in conjunction with a punt gun, but they cannot fire more than once per round. *a punt gun requries two hands to use. loading the weapon provokes an attack of opportunity.
Masterwork
The one gauge punt gun is considered a masterwork weapon.

edit changed the save to half bab, and decreased crit threat range

Geech000
2005-10-29, 02:46 PM
Sounds like some kind of shrapnel cannon. What game is this for? I definately wouldn't allow it in D&D unless there has been some big planeshifts going on. ;D

Nyrath
2005-10-29, 05:13 PM
It's a 1 gauge shotgun basicly. Could be made in D20 modern or past, though it is outlawed after some time in the 18-hundreds.

idksocrates
2005-10-31, 10:46 PM
Reflex save seems too high. Base attack for a full attacker increases by one per level. Even a high reflex save person only gains a bonus equal to half their level.

So a 20th level fighter, on average, with a 10 dex, has a reflex DC of 30, while a 20th level rogue with 10 dex has a reflex save of +12. He needs an 18 to beat a fighter's 10. Now, a 20th level fighter has a +7 reflex. He needs a natural 20 to avoid it.

Also, the critical is waaaaaay to high. How do you get an 18-20 with a weapon that grants a reflex save. Automatic weapons in d20 modern, when used to spray, don't critical.
Critical and reflex save don't go together. Pick one or the other.

TheThan
2005-11-01, 02:51 AM
Well I wrote up the stats in like five minutes or so, so there is bound to be some mistakes, Iíll edit it for corrections.

Punt guns were used primarily for commercial bird hunting. So its best used in d20 modern or past. But thatís up to the DM. Since most people who would have one would probably be commoners they wouldnít have p.c. class levels so their bab would be a lot lower. But still halving the reflex save DC is definitely the way to go, me bad. Also the critical rang is another mistake Iíll fix.

Thanks for catching those mistakes. *;)


The gun came about due to a question someone asked about making a ď0Ē gauge shotgun in the questions in the "got a weapon or armor question?" Thread, which lead to a discussion about punt guns, which lead to someone asking about the damage one would do, which lead to me making one for a d20 game.

edit ment to add that the save is supposed to have been the bab used to fire the gun, still cut it in half though
edit again busted thread link removed

Kevlimin_Soulaxe
2005-11-01, 05:16 PM
Half the B.A.B.? Wouldn't that mean that a level 1 strong hero/fighter would make it a DC 1/2 save? Seems, uh, pretty easy to make.

Leperflesh
2005-11-01, 05:32 PM
If the gun is breech-loading with cartriges, then the reload time is okay.

If it's muzzle-loading, it's far too fast.

Also, I don't 'get' the range. I don't know D20 modern, so maybe that's just my own shortfalling, but surely a gun has a longer effective range than 30 feet? If it's actually a range-increment, that still just means 300 feet...

The thing is, with a shotgun, it is a cone effect, but there is a limited number of projectiles. The farther away you are from the muzzle, the fewer projectiles are likely to hit you, even if you are within the cone. The number of projectiles likely to hit you drops as an exponential function of the distance, which is probably too hard to model using D&D rules.

How does D20 Modern handle normal shotgun range? How about a cannon loaded with grapeshot?

-lep

Gamebird
2005-11-01, 05:41 PM
5d8 and this thing was used for commercial bird hunting? :o

Cripes. What kind of birds were they hunting? Dire turkeys?

That's better than your entry level fireball and probably has a higher DC on the save too. Now, if you're putting this into a low magic, high technology game, then maybe it will work. No way is it going to be balanced in a normal D&D game. As for higher technology games, there's no way to tell if it "works" without seeing the stats of comparable weaponry, like cannons.

Bitter_Elf
2005-11-01, 06:56 PM
Looks like fun! I think it might be a bit overpowered for the kind of lowish-tech D&D I'm used to, but not a bad design... if I were going to use it (which I might find a way to do), I think I'd lower the damage a little bit, maybe to 2 or 3d8 or 3 or 4d6, depending on what other technology is availible. But yeah... I like the idea of an area-effect weapon.

TheFuzzyNerd
2005-11-01, 07:34 PM
A punt gun was muzzle-loaded with standard size (12-gauge or so) shotgun pellets, or if you really want to kill something standard size musket balls. Basically you set it up on a platform, waited for a whole bunch of birds to come along, and BANG!!!

I love the scene in Tremors 4 when they unwrap this thing and the guy says, "Apparently, it is used to kill ducks... A great many ducks."

Spuddly
2005-11-01, 09:25 PM
Shotgun type weapons are not lethal at range, especially ones with bores this big.

They are easy to hit stuff with, however. You lose damage fairly quickly with range. Right in front of the gun would do 5d8 damage. I suggest for every 30 ft you are from the gun, you lose 1d8 worth of damage.

d6s would probably be more fair.

Cymraegmorgan
2005-11-02, 07:37 AM
I love the scene in Tremors 4 when they unwrap this thing and the guy says, "Apparently, it is used to kill ducks... A great many ducks."

Still used to this day in parts of Mexico to "hunt" migrating ducks and geese.

Gamebird
2005-11-02, 04:02 PM
If this is the type of weapon I'm familiar with, there is no freaking way it does 5d8 damage to EVERY creature in the area of effect, when an arrow does only 1d8.

Ducks, geese and birds do not have an average of 22 hit points each. They have more like TWO. Or ONE. All you need to effectively hunt them is a gun or device that will deliver a little damage to a large area. More like d4 damage to a really big area. In fact, overkill is bad as it tears up the meat. You don't want to do a lot more damage than the bird's hit points.

I suspect what's going on is:
A) You saw this on TV, it looked awesome kewl, so you're trying to make it for a game. Just remember that what you see on TV often has no basis in reality.
B) You saw this on TV or heard about it being used against birds and thought, "Wow, what a great idea! Something fairly low tech that does damage to a big area! My character has to get some of that. I'll draw up game stats and make it really, really powerful so it's useful in combat." That's equivalent to saying 'I want a bow that does a d30 damage, so I draw up stats for one.' Sure, you can do that. A DM would be insane to allow it.

Gorbash Kazdar
2005-11-02, 04:31 PM
Actually, as he mentioned, it was brought up in the Weapons and Armor Questions thread. It's basically exactly what it sounds like - a giant shotgun. But the issue is with ammunition; used against ducks, I'd say you'd at best be using pretty small birdshot to avoid overkill, and there'd be a very large spread so they can kill a very large number of ducks (supposedly entire flocks).

However, the weapon could potentially be loaded with larger shot, which would significantly raise the damage potential. 5d8 is still definitely too high, though, especially when compared to the numbers given for true cannon in d20.

Spuddly
2005-11-02, 05:08 PM
Birds are shot with a very small grain of ammunition at a distance. The distance birds are shot at with a shotgun, the spread is usually about 3 feet in diameter and traveling with very little momentum.

Directly in front of a shotgun, however, would open you right up.

That's why I suggest adding a damage loss over distance. Roll 1 less die for every 30 feet you are from the muzzle.

TheThan
2005-11-03, 12:10 AM
The stats for a cannon loaded with grapeshot would most likely be better suited to such a weapon. But I donít have the stats on any cannons, so I had to improvise. I took the stats for a couple shotguns from the d20 modern srd, and using them as a guide, I scaled up to a 1 gauge. I realized itís probably too high a damage but I had nothing else to go on. So there is no problem with toneing that down.

This thing would be overpowered in a typical dnd game. In a d20 modern or a high technology game, well I couldnít answer that; play testing it is the only way to find out.

Also I didnít know they were muzzleloaders, I should have realized that they would be *slaps forehead* so I tried to make it vague while still giving the impression that it was big. I will increase the load time to something more suited to a cannon.

The rang increment idea is great. Iíll work something in. thanks for the suggestions all
p.s.
No I havenít seen tremors 4. :)

idksocrates
2005-11-03, 03:02 AM
My suggestiong for the punt gun, as per d20 modern rules. Keep in mind, I'm completely bs'ing it, not based on any cannon or anything

Gargantuan Weapon
Proficiency: Heavy Firearm Proficiency (Punt gun)
Damage: 5d6
Range Increment: 30 ft
Critical: x2
Avalailability: Res (+2)
Purchase DC: 19

A punt gun's base damage is reduced by 2 for every range increment it is fired beyond the first. Instead of making a single attack roll, the attacker can instead choose to fire at a 10x10 foot area, hitting AC 10. If you hit, all creatures in that area must make a Reflex save (DC 15 half) or take the weapon damage.
It takes 3 rounds to reload the punt gun, and takes a standard action to fire.