Balanced Superhero Weaknesses

[Berserk Monk]

So, after I reading the Green Lantern thread and remembering his weakness I started thinking "Are there any superheroes out there with weaknesses that don't totally screw them over?" I mean, I understand the premise of a weakness, but seriously, kryptonite just turns Superman from demigod to 80 year old man. And Green Lantern; the color yellow? Just buy a can of paint and redo your hideout. Make your costume yellow.

Granted I don't know much about the mainstream superheroes, but I'm just wondering if there are any out there with weaknesses that slow them down, not knock them out for the count. The best example of what I'm talking about is Dr. Manhattan and tachyons. They mess up his ability to see all time at once, but all his other powers remain unchanged. Adrian almost destroyed him for good with those (except for, you know, the fact he can rebuild himself).

[kpenguin]

Note that with the yellow weakness, it prevents the GL from directly interacting with the guy if he's in a yellow costume, but that doesn't mean he can't go pick up car with his ring and throw it at him.

[chiasaur11]

So, after I reading the Green Lantern thread and remembering his weakness I started thinking "Are there any superheroes out there with weaknesses that don't totally screw them over?" I mean, I understand the premise of a weakness, but seriously, kryptonite just turns Superman from demigod to 80 year old man. And Green Lantern; the color yellow? Just buy a can of paint and redo your hideout. Make your costume yellow.

Granted I don't know much about the mainstream superheroes, but I'm just wondering if there are any out there with weaknesses that slow them down, not knock them out for the count. The best example of what I'm talking about is Dr. Manhattan and tachyons. They mess up his ability to see all time at once, but all his other powers remain unchanged. Adrian almost destroyed him for good with those (except for, you know, the fact he can rebuild himself).

Aquaman and Namor slowly but steadily get weaker when out of water.

Spider-Man has a few gases and other things that can counter his Spider-Sense, but not his other abilities.

Loud noises disrupt Daredevil's senses and cause him pain, but don't entirely make him useless.

[Starscream]

Yeah, even when facing an entirely yellow opponent like Mongul, Lantern could still use his ring to give himself super strength and battle on.

As for your question, I always thought that Iron Man's heart condition was a good one. It isn't a day-to-day concern for him, but has caused significant trouble on occasion.

Kryptonite does indeed cripple Superman, but he also has a vulnerability to magic. Which is to say, he doesn't have an immunity to it like he does to pretty much everything else. It can affect him just like anybody, but he still retains his powers to combat it. That seems fair.

Plastic Man can be melted, dissolved, or frozen and shattered. But none of these thing kill him, just mess him up for a while. Even disintegration can only stop him temporarily, although 3000 years as crumbs in the ocean is a pretty solid defeat.

On the other hand, sometimes writers take it too far the other way, and let heroes be inconvenienced by stuff that should in no way affect them. The Flash is the best example of this I can think. No way a guy with a freeze gun should cause him trouble. He can run at the speed of light, why would he give the dude time to aim and pull the trigger?

And don't even get me started on being punched out by a gorilla, I don't care how clever it is. Gorillas can't move at sonic speed. And a punch at the speed of sound should liquefy him.

[Thrawn183]

Well, it's not like the flash makes sense.

[kpenguin]

Well, it's not like the flash makes sense.

QFT

How about weaknesses that prevent heroes from accessing their full power without a significant drawbacks?

[warty goblin]

Note that with the yellow weakness, it prevents the GL from directly interacting with the guy if he's in a yellow costume, but that doesn't mean he can't go pick up car with his ring and throw it at him.

So what happens when he fights somebody armed with a paintball gun and yellow paintballs?

[kpenguin]

He can still fly and, presumably, dodge paintballs. Or he can pick up some other non-yellow objects to use as cover.

And then from that cover throw a heavy non-yellow object.

Plus, I'm pretty sure a paintball gun wouldn't incapacitate him very much. He could do a flying charge towards the guy. GL flight is capable of tranversing interplanetary distances, so its pretty fast.

[Zevox]

I don't know about a "balanced" weakness, but apparently, Wonder Woman had the most interesting weakness ever (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=34%3Asuffering-sappho-index&id=559%3Amore-crap-about-aphrodites-law&Itemid=39). (They're called "Bracelets of Submission"? Really?)

Incidentally, if you've never seen that site before, I'd highly recommend reading over it when you have time. It's absolutely hilarious.

Zevox

[factotum]

Considering kryptonite can only be obtained from the shattered remains of a dead planet that exploded many light-years from Earth, and there's thus very little of it available on our own planet, I don't consider it an unbalanced weakness at all. If anything, Superman is way too strong normally, especially the Silver Age version; he NEEDS something to dial him back a bit.

Fact is, power levels of superheroes are all over the place even without taking their weaknesses into account; the Fantastic Four are, as a group, pretty mediocre in terms of superpowers, and without Reed Richards' brilliant mind they'd be also-rans.

[chiasaur11]

Considering kryptonite can only be obtained from the shattered remains of a dead planet that exploded many light-years from Earth, and there's thus very little of it available on our own planet, I don't consider it an unbalanced weakness at all. If anything, Superman is way too strong normally, especially the Silver Age version; he NEEDS something to dial him back a bit.

Fact is, power levels of superheroes are all over the place even without taking their weaknesses into account; the Fantastic Four are, as a group, pretty mediocre in terms of superpowers, and without Reed Richards' brilliant mind they'd be also-rans.

Oh?

I mean, we aren't talking JLA, but they can hold their own. Plastic Man's powers are low A-list, Johnny's got flight, some damage resistance, and projectiles, not to mention an A-Bomb level blast as a once a day special. Ben's "only" class 80 strength, but he's all heart, and that tends to mean he outlasts everyone but the Hulk in a scrap. Then there's Suzie...

She's only limited by her imagination weapon wise. Invincible shields, battering rams that can deck most folks easy, flight...

It's good powers. Reed's brain is why the team's A-List all the way, but they aren't pushovers even if you set that aside.

[kpenguin]

Pssst...

Plastic Man is JLA. You're thinking of Mr. Fantastic.

[chiasaur11]

Pssst...

Plastic Man is JLA. You're thinking of Mr. Fantastic.

I know, it's just I mentioned that as Reed's power set. Sorry for the unclearness.

[Jesse Drake]

And Franklin could just do whatever he wants, his weakness... Involuntary nightmare summoning.

[Zevox]

Fact is, power levels of superheroes are all over the place even without taking their weaknesses into account
No kidding. I mean, just as an example, look at the disparity in the seven heroes used in the Justice League cartoon:

(Arranged more or less from most powerful to least powerful.)
- Superman: Super strength, super speed, flight, nearly invulnerable, heat and x-ray vision, just to name the most famous of them. Only god-like foes like Darkseid can actually seriously threaten him without kryptonite or some way to expose him to red star radiation.
- Green Lantern: Can use his ring to do... well, just about anything short of rewrite reality. I mean, when the second or third episode of the series is about him being accused of accidentally destroying a planet...
- Wonder Woman: super strength, flight, incredible toughness; generally powers comparable to, but lesser than, Superman's. Also has a pair of bracers capable of deflecting bullets, since unlike Superman she isn't invulnerable to those.
- The Flash: Super speed, and a few side-effects of that which he rarely uses (able to vibrate his molecules so fast it destabilizes nearby objects, for instance, which he generally doesn't do because it's too dangerous).
- Martian Manhunter: Able to go incorporeal, telepathic abilities, shape-shifting abilities, greater than human strength (but not to the level of Superman or Wonder Woman).
- Hawkgirl: Wings for flight, greater than human strength (but not to the level of Superman or Wonder Woman), a mace which seems unbreakable and can disrupt magic.
- Batman: A lot of toys, a keen mind, and peak (or close to it) human physical abilities. Not even any actual super powers to speak of - if a normal human in peak physical condition couldn't do it, he either needs technology to do it, or just can't.

Yeah, there's a fairly big power gap between a lot of them. Especially once you get past the top two or three. Comparing Batman or Hawkgirl to Superman or Green Lantern in terms of powers just isn't doable.

Zevox

[Starscream]

Plastic Man's powers are low A-list,

Hardly. There are a lot of people who would argue that he is technically their most powerful member. He is the only one who is actually unkillable for start. The Fernus storyline is the real kicker, though. Even Superman got his butt kicked. Plas saved the day through sheer awesomeness.

[Phase]

- Batman: A lot of toys, a keen mind, and peak (or close to it) human physical abilities. Not even any actual super powers to speak of - if a normal human in peak physical condition couldn't do it, he either needs technology to do it, or just can't.

Yeah, there's a fairly big power gap between a lot of them. Especially once you get past the top two or three. Comparing Batman or Hawkgirl to Superman or Green Lantern in terms of powers just isn't doable.

But Batman would win anyway. He knows their weaknesses and tactics and he's been able to take Superman in a fight one on one.

Not that this is actually relevant, I just like Batman.

[JonestheSpy]

- The Flash: Super speed, and a few side-effects of that which he rarely uses (able to vibrate his molecules so fast it destabilizes nearby objects, for instance, which he generally doesn't do because it's too dangerous).


Just geek out a little bit, I'd say that the Flash's biggest weakness (comic version, not animated) is a low self esteem that keeps him from realizing exactly how insanely powerful he is. He might not have the most versatile array of powers compared to Supes or whatever, but he should actually be able to win in a fight against pretty much anybody - he can run around the world literally faster than any opponent can think.

I mean, I'm no black belt but I know a little bit about fighting, and it's ALL about speed and reaction time.

[pflare]

The one's without powers usually have no weaknesses like Batman or Ironman. Spiderman has a few but they are man made and, as said earlier, they only mess up his ability to sense things.

[Thrawn183]

Well, batman could always come down with the flu.

I know Static Shock starts to short circuit in water.

[Zevox]

But Batman would win anyway. He knows their weaknesses and tactics and he's been able to take Superman in a fight one on one.

Not that this is actually relevant, I just like Batman.
All depends upon the context of the event. And in any event, I wasn't comparing "who would win in a fight?", just their respective abilities and powers.


Just geek out a little bit, I'd say that the Flash's biggest weakness (comic version, not animated) is a low self esteem that keeps him from realizing exactly how insanely powerful he is. He might not have the most versatile array of powers compared to Supes or whatever, but he should actually be able to win in a fight against pretty much anybody - he can run around the world literally faster than any opponent can think.

I mean, I'm no black belt but I know a little bit about fighting, and it's ALL about speed and reaction time.
Theoretically, he should be able to basically pulverize anything he hits, simply because of basic physics. Force = mass x velocity, and he can get the velocity part of the equation higher than anyone or (almost) anything else. But that gets ignored, because if it didn't, he'd be far too over the top in terms of power, more so even than Superman. So instead he can mostly just get from one place to the other incredibly fast, or cause whirlwinds and the like, and is typically portrayed as a mediocre combatant compared to the rest of the team in the cartoons (though in that case it's also in large part because he's often simply incompetent - he was the comic relief part of the team in those cartoons).

Zevox

[Worira]

Just geek out a little bit, I'd say that the Flash's biggest weakness (comic version, not animated) is a low self esteem that keeps him from realizing exactly how insanely powerful he is. He might not have the most versatile array of powers compared to Supes or whatever, but he should actually be able to win in a fight against pretty much anybody - he can run around the world literally faster than any opponent can think.

I mean, I'm no black belt but I know a little bit about fighting, and it's ALL about speed and reaction time.

Strength and technique are rather important as well. But yes, The Flash could beat any other member of the Justice League with the exception of Superman, and then only because Superman also has superspeed.

[Thane of Fife]

Force = mass x velocity


While I don't disagree with the rest of your comment, F=ma, not F=mv.


Well, batman could always come down with the flu.

I think that's just another advantage for Batman - in one of the cartoons, I recall him coming down with the sniffles and then beating Mr. Freeze by using the thermos of chicken soup Alfred gave him.

[Zevox]

While I don't disagree with the rest of your comment, F=ma, not F=mv.
Right, my mistake. Been a few years since I had that physics class. Still, I should have remembered something that basic accurately :smallredface: .

Zevox

[Seraph]

I'd say that Venom and the symbionts have reasonable weaknesses (high-volume sonic waves and extreme heat), but then it seems that everyone and aunt may has either a sonic cannon or a flamethrower in marvel these days.

[Tamburlaine]

I'd say that Venom and the symbionts have reasonable weaknesses (high-volume sonic waves and extreme heat), but then it seems that everyone and aunt may has either a sonic cannon or a flamethrower in marvel these days.

Who needs a sonic cannon? I remember Venom once being incapacitated by Mary Jane setting off the fire alarm in her house.

[TheThan]

I'd say that Venom and the symbionts have reasonable weaknesses (high-volume sonic waves and extreme heat), but then it seems that everyone and aunt may has either a sonic cannon or a flamethrower in marvel these days.

sonic cannons and flamethrowers are Standard issue gear in the marvelverse


Part of the problem with weakness is power creep. A perfect example is wolverine. He used to just barely survive gunshots to the chest. That was a long time ago. Now wolverine can survive nuclear blasts and getting dumped into molten lava. Before wolverine was stoppable, though still dangerous. Now he’s just as dangerous (even more so now, really) and basically unstoppable. So things that used to work when said superhero was created, simply don’t anymore due to the superhero becoming more powerful over time.


Another problem I find is that a lot of weaknesses are too darn specific, like kryptonite. A rare mineral from another planet is too specific and rare to put superman in danger in a semi-believable way. It breaks the story and is too often used as a cop-out for sub-par comic book writing. Then there’s WonderWoman’s ultimate weakness (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=34&Itemid=51).


Personally I believe that your not really a hero unless you risking yourself to save others. Which is why police and firemen and the occasional Good Samaritan are heroes, because they have something to risk when they step up and do the right thing.

[J.Gellert]

Having just watched Watchmen, I'll just add that no, a messed-up mind and screwed emotions do not balance god-abilities.

Edit: To me, a well-designed superhero doesn't need a weakness, because a well-designed hero has limitations built-in in his superpowers instead. Like Iron Man; he's only powerful in the suit. Spiderman; he's restricted to spider-themed abilities. But Superman? Sure he has a weakness, Cryptonite, but what is his limitation? What is his theme? He's just... super. Boring.

[Nevrmore]

They weren't supposed to.

[WitchSlayer]

Green Lantern isn't weak to yellow anymore.
Alan Scott, the golden-age Green Lantern is weak to wood, however.

[Oslecamo]

Edit: To me, a well-designed superhero doesn't need a weakness, because a well-designed hero has limitations built-in in his superpowers instead. Like Iron Man; he's only powerful in the suit.

False. The suit is just because he likes to show off.

In a recent issue, Tony Starck gets captured by the might warrior emperium of the skrulls, and they remove his armor.

Theoretically, he should be at the verge of a fatal hearth attack(even the srkull medics say that).

In practise, Tony, naked and unarmed, trashes the whole skrull military base by himself! No, really, it's oficial! And no, he didn't use his madz engineering skillz to improvise weapons. He actually beated up the finest elite of the srkull empire with his bare fists!

Well designed my a**!

[J.Gellert]

Well, you know, I can't account for the whims of every writer :P At least at concept level, even with kung-fu, he's supposed to be weak without the suit. I imagine that when Wolverine was created, it wasn't meant for him to be able to regenerate from a few brain cells either...

[Thrawn183]

I thought it orginally took him a whole day to recover from a gunshot wound.