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Lysander
2009-07-15, 02:07 PM
Does anyone have custom rules for different levels of language mastery? Basic rules just state that you either know a language or you don't, but in real life there are several levels of expertise.

Here's my idea for a sliding scale of three different levels per language. Each skill point invested would increase your level in a language by one.

1 Pidgin: You can speak and understand the language, barely. When you speak you use simple words, short sentences, and bad grammar. You receive a -5 modifier to Sense Motive and Gather Information checks in that language and Diplomacy rolls have a -2 modifier. Attempting to explain anything overly complex requires a Sense Motive check on the part of the listener to understand you. Your writing is equally crude, and it is impossible to forge convincing documents.

2 Normal: You can speak the language as well as an average person of that land. You might not understand rare or complex words, and some nobles and educated professionals might look down on you as uneducated and act unfriendly or patronizing. A foreigner speaking at this level is marked by a strong accent.

3 Educated: You have mastered the language, and speak artfully to impress nobles or simply to fit in with commoners. You gain +1 to all Diplomacy and Gather Information checks in this language. A foreigner can choose to hide their accent, though a successful Sense Motive check will reveal it is not their native tongue. Two educated speakers can choose to use words so complex that a person who only knows pidgin won't be able to understand them at all.

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The intelligence bonus languages become skill points that can be divided among several languages or put into one. For example, a character with 4 bonus languages could choose to learn 4 languages at the pidgin level, 2 languages at normal, or one language at educated and another at pidgin, etc.

All speakers know their native tongue at Normal proficiency unless they invest another point into it. Any character with a positive intelligence bonus automatically knows their native tongue as educated. Bards and Aristocrats automatically know any language they have at Normal as Educated, without having to spend a third point. The Druidic tongue and most secret languages only have one level which confers no bonuses or penalties.

Anxe
2009-07-15, 02:29 PM
The Kalamar Campaign setting has the rules that you're looking for I believe. The rules you've got there are good enough in my opinion.

Iferus
2009-07-15, 03:19 PM
I homebrewed this two years back:

(ad hoc translated from dutch...)


In my world, there's no such thing as "common", because a general world trade language is simply unrealistic with the limited options of travel available to traders.

Language points:
1: comprehension (-6 to skill checks in that language to Listen, Bluff, Gather Information, Diplomacy and Perform(any language-dependent); you cannot read or write the language.)
2: reading (-4 to aforementioned skills, hand-and-foot communication is now reasonably possible.)
3: speech(-2 to aforementioned skills, and even though you have a thick accent, people understand you. This is pidgin level.)
4: writing (-2 to the same skills, and you can now communicate reasonably well in written language. Grammar starts to grow naturally, and your accent lessens)
6: fluent You speak the language like a naitive.
8: expert (+2 competence bonus to Diplomacy in this language, Bluff(to pretend this is your mother tongue, which gives +2 to disguise as a typical naitive speaker (eg, a fluent speaker of elvish can bluff himself a bonus to pretend to be an elf)), and +2 to perform(any language dependent))


Characters start off with six points in their racial tongue, and 4 points in their regional tongue. Races without a racial tongue start with 6 language points in the regional language. You gain bonus language points equal to 3*int mod. With the exception of your own language, the maximum amount of language points you can invest in a single language is 5+ character level. A skill point can be used as a language point. If Speak Language is a class skill to you, a skill point equals two language points, and the cap on language points of foreign languages is negated.

Iferus
2009-07-15, 03:51 PM
Additional rules:


Learning a language
To learn a language, you need to have example material. You cannot put language points in a langue if you have not recently communicated with a character that has at least the amount of skill points you are about to have. To have one language point, you need to hear the language being spoken. Eavesdropping goblins is enough to train your first language point. The second language point can be invested if you find a written source, and either hear it being read or do a DC 12 decipher script check. For the third language point you need to have a conversation partner (a prisoner will do), but for more language points you'll need a teacher (who needs to have at least as many language points in the language as you are about to have).


Talking in combat
Usually, shouting in combat is a free action. However, if you have three language points or less, you need to do a concentration check DC 20 - 2*language points. If you fail, your message is unintelligable unless you spend a move action.

Diplomacy, Bluff and Perform
If you use a skill that depends on language, it won't be as effective if you do not master the language. This also works the other way: if the

listeners do not understand, it probably won't work. If the listeners have more than 4 language points, they will understand. If they don't, you'll get a penalty of (5- targets' language points) to the skill check.


Communication
Speaking a language you hardly know can go reasonably well, as long as you keep it simple. To convey a message, you need to do a charisma check. Your listeners will then need to do a wisdom check to understand the language (understanding the language is not the same as understanding the meaning, which would require a basic amount of intelligence). DCs are noted in the table below.




Message complexity: Simple Normal Complex
Language points:

1 15 20 25
2 10 15 20
3 4 8 18
4 4 6 14
5 3 4 12
6 1 2 8
7 1 1 5
8 1 1 2

As you get to know someone, these DC's decrease. After regularly speaking for a day, the DC is decreased by 1. After 10 days, it is decreased by

1 again, and every month after that the DC to communicate decreases to a minimum of {0,2,5}

Salvonus
2009-07-15, 03:54 PM
This is a rather nice system, I find. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74094) I use it when language is an important element of the setting.

Gnomo
2009-07-15, 11:05 PM
I also wanted to make language a more complex issue in my games, but I took a completely different route:

A character can read and write in a language only if he knows the alphabet used in said language (check table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/speakLanguage.htm)).
Characters do not know any alphabet automatically but can choose to learn an alphabet instead of an extra language due to an increased Intelligence score at first level, except Barbarians.
New skill: Knowledge(alphabet). This skill lets you know a new Alphabet for every rank you have in it in a similar fashion than the Speak Language skill. No class has it as a class skill.

Although the idea of putting ranks on a language to use it better sounds great, I think I will also might add some of this on my games, but in a more simple manner.

Shpadoinkle
2009-07-16, 12:38 PM
Yeah, these are all more realistic and beleivable, but you know what? A LOT of players would find this annoying and probably most D&D groups would just houserule it to work like it already does anyway.

Also, no other skills work like this. You don't have levels of Craft where you only know how to make a chain shirt and take huge penalties when you try to make a suit of full plate because you've never done it before or you only have so many skill points in that skill. You're not 'partially proficient' in armorcrafting, if you have skill points in it, you just know how to do it.

So if you want to do something like this, yeah, go nuts and good luck, but to me it seems inconsistant with literally every other skill in the game, and as a player, all it would do would be to convince me to get an amulet with a constant Tongues effect or something.

Lysander
2009-07-16, 01:10 PM
Yeah, these are all more realistic and beleivable, but you know what? A LOT of players would find this annoying and probably most D&D groups would just houserule it to work like it already does anyway.

Also, no other skills work like this. You don't have levels of Craft where you only know how to make a chain shirt and take huge penalties when you try to make a suit of full plate because you've never done it before or you only have so many skill points in that skill. You're not 'partially proficient' in armorcrafting, if you have skill points in it, you just know how to do it.

So if you want to do something like this, yeah, go nuts and good luck, but to me it seems inconsistant with literally every other skill in the game, and as a player, all it would do would be to convince me to get an amulet with a constant Tongues effect or something.

The way I see it, you could even ask people to roleplay a simple system. That way it isn't a binding rule, more of a guideline for them to follow. The DM would say "This is a foreign tongue you only know in pidgin. Use terrible grammar."

Then your normally eloquent character would say stuff like:

"Us look for man. Him have bad magic. Big man dark hair. Seen you a him?"