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TheThan
2005-09-27, 10:26 PM
Being currently out of a job, i have alot of free time. So I have decided to create a new "bases" class. This class came about one day while i was flipping through the Players handbook. I realized that the paladin and the ranger are hybrids of two or more existing classes( fighter/cleric= paladin, druid/fighter/rogue= ranger). I realized that wotsc don't really have any arcane hybirds. Now there is the Bard but i feel he doesnt really count seeing as he's the "jack of all trades" class.
so i present to you a new base class, the Mage Knight.


Mage Knight
Proficiencies
Light armor, all simple and martial weapons
Hit dice: d8 . Gold at 1st level: 5d4x10 (125 average)
Skill points at 1st level (4 + intelligence modifier) x 4. Skill points per level 4 + intelligence modifier

Skills: Concentration, craft, decipher script, jump, knowledge (arcana), knowledge (local), ride, sense motive, spellcraft, swim, use magic device.

Spells Per Day
{table]

level
bab
fort
reflex
will
special

0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9


1

1

0

0

0
bonus feat

-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



2

1

1

1

1


3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3

2

1

1

1


4
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4

2

2

2

2


4
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5

3

2

2

2
bonus feat

4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


6

3

3

3

3


4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7

4

3

3

3


4
3
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-


8

4

4

4

4


4
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-


9

5

4

4

4


4
4
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-


10

5

5

5

5
bonus feat

4
4
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-


11

6/1

5

5

5


4
4
4
4
3
2
1
-
-
-


12

6/1

6

6

6


4
4
4
4
3
3
2
-
-
-


13

7/2

6

6

6


4
4
4
4
3
3
2
1
-
-


14

7/2

7

7

7


4
4
4
4
4
3
3
2
-
-


15

8/3

7

7

7
bonus feat

4
4
4
4
4
4
3
2
1
-


16

8/3

8

8

8


4
4
4
4
4
4
3
3
2
-


17

9/4

8

8

8


4
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
2
1


18

9/4

9

9

9


4
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
3
2


19

10/5

9

9

9


4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
2


20

10/5

10

10

10
bonus feat

4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
3

[/table]

Bonus feat
At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level the Mage knight gains a bonus feat taken from the following list. The Mage knight must meet all prerequisites for each feat. These feats are in addition to the feats a character gains for attaining levels 1,4,8,12, 16,20. Also this is in addition to the bonus feat a human gains at level 1.
feats
Spell mastery, spell penetration, greater spell penetration, spell focus, greater spell focus, eschew materials, combat casting, dodge, mobility, spring attack, exotic weapon proficiency, combat expertise, improved disarm, improved feint, improved trip, combat reflexes, weapon finesse, weapon focus,Scribe scroll, craft magic arms and armor, craft rods, craft staves, craft wand, craft wondrous item, forge ring,

Spells
Beginning at level 2 a mage knight learns to cast arcane spells like a wizard. The mage knight must store his spells in a spell book. He must also memorize his spells just like a wizard. The mage knight has all 0 level spells stored in his spell book, plus two 1st level spells of his choosing. At each new mage knight level he gains+ 2 spells for his spell book. Additionally his book holds 1 extra spell per point of intelligence modifier he has. A Mage Knight ignores arcane spell failure while wearing light armor, if he wears medium armor or heavy armor; as well as any shield, he suffers the normal arcane spell failure. The Mage knight also starts play with a spell book.

ok this post turned out way longer than i though it would. Not to mention that table took forever to do. Special thanks goes out to Gorbash Kazdar for his wonderful guide to message board codes. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1095036000) otherwize i wouldn't have finished it.
I will most likely post some flavor text for the Mage Knight in the future. Please feel free to post questions or coments about it, oh and please help me come up with a better name, besides being quite lame, its also taken i believe.

Douglas
2005-09-27, 10:55 PM
You have completely ignored the standard base attack and save progressions with this class. You can do that if you really want to, but for the sake of consistency with other classes, I'd recommend using a more standard approach. The standards are for base attack, good=1/level, average=.75/level, poor=.5/level, always round down. Saves are good=2+.5/level, bad=1/3 levels.

There's very little in there to represent the fighter part of the combo. This is basically a wizard with a few more options for bonus feats and an initial small delay on spellcasting. If you really want to make a fighter/wizard hybrid base class, it should look a lot more like the paladin and ranger classes. At least average base attack if not good, good fort and will saves probably, and reduced spellcasting ability across the board, capping out at 4th or 5th level spells.

Since a hybrid class like this should be significantly behind straight wizards in spellcasting ability, the Mage Knight should not be very good at using lots of heavy duty offensive spells. As a hybrid, his caster level should lag considerably behind that of a wizard. Following the model of Paladins and Rangers, his caster level should be half of his character level. This, combined with the delayed acquisition of high level spells and needing more than one high ability score, means any Fireballs he throws will probably do low damage and have low save DC's.

I think you should make an entirely new spell list for this class, concentrating most on buffing spells, particularly self buffs. Instead of bonus feats, maybe give special abilities that increase the duration or effectiveness of his trademark buffs, or maybe allow normally self-only buffs to be cast on other party members.

ShneekeyTheLost
2005-09-27, 11:29 PM
Hmm... may I make a suggestion?

Take the Bard spell progression, Sorc/Wiz spell options, make him a CHA based spontanious caster with medium BAB, D6 hit die, strong ref and will, weak fort save. Give them the ability to wear light armor with no arcane spell failure chance. Caster level is half his class level, round up.

Okay, now you give him some nifty abilities on down the line like his sword/shield doesn't interfere with any somatic spell components, as he has learned how to work in harmony with them, and maybe a few feats spiced throughout. Toss in Evasion around 12 just to discourage cherry-picking for prestige classes.

As for spell list... combat spells would be mostly Ray spells. With his medium BAB, he'll be able to hit with them more frequently. Maybe give him an option where he can land a touch spell with a weapon strike (I hit you for <damage> plus a Vampiric Touch spell). Any spell with a to-hit should be on his list, as should defensive spells (shield, mage armor, displacement, haste), and utility (dimension door, True Strike, dispel magic).

To be honest, with his fairly craptastic caster level, don't bother with things with saves like fireball and lightning bolt. You're not going to affect anything. You'd do better to load yourself up with Displacement and Haste to hit more often and have a 50% miss chance.

I'm looking more at Psi Warrior for a template here, maybe give 'em a feat progression (2nd and every 3rd after that) or something.

heraldofi
2005-09-27, 11:35 PM
Actually, this class resembles my favorite user made class ever, which can be found here:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=385238

TheThan
2005-09-29, 03:34 AM
GRRRRRR

This blasted page just expired on me. Right after I finished writing a really good (yet long winded) reply to all the suggestions that have ben given here. So instead of writeing it all out again; I'm just going to sum up: Thanks for all the suggestions, I plan on empmenting many of them, while some wont make it into the final write up.
but as i said I would do I have written up some flavor text for this class. please enjoy

With little fanfare the official swung his sword down in a graceful arc. The signal to begin the duel. The two warriors stepped forward and prepared their weapons. Sir Walters charged forward to deliver a massive horizontal strike at his enemy. The young man blocked the blow with his sword but was driven back by the powerful 2 handed swing. Sir Walters continued his charge and swung with another mighty 2 handed attack, this one a downward swing, meant to split his opponent in half. The young man managed to dodge to one side of Sir Walters, avoided the overhand attack and managed a counterattack at sir Walters flank. The attack struck armor and did little more than dent it.
Sir Walters turned to face his enemy, the attack at his flank barely slowing him. He was forced to defend himself from another attack from his enemy. Sir Walters then adopted a less reckless stance, and began a series of strikes. The smaller man managed to defend himself from the attacks. He found an opening and struck out but his attack was thwarted by the Sir Walters heavy armor.
The two combatants continued their deadly dance for several minutes before there was a significant advantage showed. Sir Walters and his enemy lock their swords together in a contest of strength. With a mighty heave Sir Walters shoved the smaller man back, which knocked him to the ground. Sir Walters then began stalking around the fallen man, believing the end was near.
His enemy rose, then mumbled something Sir Walters couldn’t hear. He lifted his hand palm out. Suddenly a flash of purple light erupted from the palm of the smaller man’s hand, then two points of purple light streaked towards Sir Walters and struck him solidly in the chest, knocking him back! Sir Walters managed to recover in time to glance down at his chest. He found his armor was heavily damaged and blackened from the magical assault. The smaller man then came on Sir Walters with a fierceness he had not seen before in the man. Sir Walters was barely able to defend himself from the attacks.
The unnamed man came down on Sir Walters hard, but his blow was interrupted by a different sword! His eyes followed the sword down to the hilt, then up to this new person’s face. He stood there looking at the Official’s face. He was then ordered to disengage from the battle. Surprised at this turn of events the unnamed man backed way from Sir Walters.
The official announced the duel over and declared Sir Walters the victor, claiming his opponent broke the rules of engagement by having a mage stand ready to assist him in battle, thus forfeiting the duel. The smaller man protested to this turn of events fiercely. He claimed he has done no such thing, and that he was the one that cast the magic, and that by strict interpretation of the rules, magic is allowed in the duel saying that there was no outside influence. He also suggested that he would willingly submit to the divinations of a non-partial wizard. The official hearing this decided to call a non-partial wizard to the duel to determine the truth of his claims.
One of the spectators stepped forward and spoke to the official in a low voice. After several minutes it was decided that this mage would conduct the investigation. He then used some divination spells to determine the truth of the smaller man’s claims to be able to cast magic. After several minutes of disscusion between the wizard and the official, the official came to a conclusion. The official ruled that this duel will not continue and that no one will be declared the victor. He states that the magical capacity of the unnamed warrior creates a situation in which the rules were not prepared to handle. And that there will be no further hostility between the two fighters.
With that the official sheathed is sword and left the field of honor. The unnamed warrior turned to his things and prepared for his own departure, obviously satisfied with the outcome of this duel. While Sir Walters simply stood there, shocked.
The arbitrating wizard approached the unnamed warrior and asked,

“I’ve never seen anyone who could fight like as well as you and know the secrets of arcane power like you, where did learn your craft? How do you do it?”

“Huh? Oh my folks taught me how to do all that.” Replied the unnamed warrior.

“Hmmm, may I ask who your parents are? ” asked the wizard, who has become even more curious.

“Sure I don’t mind, my father was Bill Armstrong, and my mother wa-“

“Your father was Bill Armstrong?” Sir Walters cut him off, now interested in the conversation between the two.

“Yes he was”, Armstrong said.

“ I knew him, he was a great fighter. The last I heard of him he had quit adventuring and settled down with some wizard woman he met on the road.” Sir Walters said.

“Yeah, well that wizard woman was my mother.” Replied Armstrong

Mage knights are highly skill warriors who have studied both the arcane and martial disciplines equally. Because of the nature of their training, Mage knights must be highly driven and focused people. They are most often found as elite soldiers for wealthy nations. Some are the sons and daughters of adventurers whom have taken up their father’s sword and their mother’s spell book to make there own way as adventurers. Elves often become this class for elves value the arcane arts as well as swordplay and archery.

prufock
2005-09-29, 01:42 PM
You should rework the saves. Saves never go up to ten. It's either 6 or 12. Take another look at the PHB. The will and fort should probably be 12s, with the Reflex at 6.

Seerow
2005-09-29, 01:50 PM
well, he could try to work out a steady progression that ends at 9, for an intermediate save (it always bugged me that there wasnt one), but eh.

FlashFire
2005-09-29, 01:55 PM
It does feel very Bard-like, doesn't it? I would rework the BAB progression to be in line with other characters, ditto the Bard. I think you're doing a pretty good job with it....

Seffbasilisk
2005-09-29, 02:03 PM
If they're as focused as monks, they should have to be lawful or something.

And isnt that pretty close to an Eldritch Knight?

only as a base class not a presitge?

FlashFire
2005-09-29, 02:04 PM
It is pretty close... but if you're going to call this a "knight", perhaps the above posters are right in suggesting a Lawful alignment...

Starbuck_II
2005-09-29, 02:27 PM
Being currently out of a job, i have alot of free time. So I have decided to create a new "bases" class. This class came about one day while i was flipping through the Players handbook. I realized that the paladin and the ranger are hybrids of two or more existing classes( fighter/cleric= paladin, druid/fighter/rogue= ranger). I realized that wotsc don't really have any arcane hybirds. Now there is the Bard but i feel he doesnt really count seeing as he's the "jack of all trades" class.
so i present to you a new base class, the Mage Knight.

Shouldn't it have Spell progression of a Ranger?
Full Bab, light, meduim armor, and shields with no ASF, up to 4th level spells, D8 hps?
I'll use Cleric saves.

Here is what I mean: i'll include all the bonus feats you used.

Hit dice: d8 .

Skill points at 1st level *(4 + intelligence modifier) x 4. Skill points per level 4 + intelligence modifier *

Skills:
Concentration, craft, decipher script, jump, knowledge (arcana), knowledge (local), ride, sense motive, spellcraft, swim, use magic device. *





Table: The Mage Knight * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Spells per Day
Level * * *Base Attack Bonus * * *Fort Save * * *Ref Save * * *Will Save * * *Special * * *1st * * *2nd * * *3rd * * *4th * * *
1st * * *+1 * * *+2 * * *+0 * * *+2 * * *Bonus Feat * * *--- * * *--- * * *--- * * *--- * * *
2nd * * *+2 * * *+3 * * *+0 * * *+3 * * * * * *---- * * *---- * * *--- * * *---
3rd * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+1 * * *+3 * * *--- * * *--- * * *--- * * *--- * * *
4th * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+1 * * *+4 * * * * * *0 * * *--- * * *--- * * *--- * * *
5th * * *+5 * * *+4 * * *+1 * * *+4 * * *Bonus Feat ** * *0 * * *--- * * *--- * * *---
6th * * *+6/+1 * * *+5 * * *+2 * * *+5 * * * * * *1 * * *--- * * *--- * * *---
7th * * *+7/+2 * * *+5 * * *+2 * * *+5 * * * * * *1 * * *--- * * *--- * * *---
8th * * *+8/+3 * * *+6 * * *+2 * * *+6 * * * * * *1 * * *0 * * *--- * * * ---
9th * * *+9/+4 * * *+6 * * *+3 * * *+6 * * * * * *1 * * *0 * * *--- * * *---
10th * * *+10/+5 * * *+7 * * *+3 * * *+7 * * *BonusFeat ** * *1 * * *1 * * *--- * * *---
11th * * *+11/+6/+1 * * *+7 * * *+3 * * *+7 * * * * * *1 * * *1 * * *0 * * *---
12th * * *+12/+7/+2 * * *+8 * * *+4 * * *+8 * * * * * *1 * * *1 * * *1 * * *---
13th * * *+13/+8/+3 * * *+8 * * *+4 * * *+8 * * * * * *1 * * *1 * * *1 * * *---
14th * * *+14/+9/+4 * * *+9 * * *+4 * * *+9 * * * * * *2 * * *1 * * *1 * * *0 * * *
15th * * *+15/+10/+5 * * *+9 * * *+5 * * *+9 * * * * * *2 * * *1 * * *1 * * *1 * * *
16th * * *+16/+11/+6/+1 * * *+10 * * *+5 * * *+10 * * * * * *2 * * *2 * * *1 * * *1
17th * * *+17/+12/+7/+2 * * +10 * * *+5 * * *+10 * * *Bonus Feat ** * *2 * * *2 * * *2 * * *1
18th * * *+18/+13/+8/+3 * * *+11 * * *+6 * * *+11 * * * * * *3 * * *2 * * *2 * * *1 * * *
19th * * *+19/+14/+9/+4 * * *+11 * * *+6 * * *+11 * * * * * *3 * * *3 * * *3 * * *2
20th * * *+20/+15/+10/+5 * * *+12 * * *+6 * * *+12 * * *Bonus Feat ** * *3 * * *3 * * *3 * * *3

Table probably messed up.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Mage Knight is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light and meduim armor *and shields (except tower shields).
Because of the simple movements and incantations required for Mage Knight spells they have no arcane Spell failure in light & meduim armor as well as shields. (not Tower shields).
Wearing heavy armor or using a tower shield imposes twice the amount of ASF.

Bonus feat
At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level the Mage knight gains a bonus feat taken from the following list. The Mage knight must meet all prerequisites for each feat. These feats are in addition to the feats a character gains for attaining levels 1,4,8,12, 16,20. Also this is in addition to the bonus feat a human gains at level 1. *
]feats
Spell mastery, spell penetration, greater spell penetration, spell focus, greater spell focus, eschew materials, combat casting, dodge, mobility, spring attack, exotic weapon proficiency, combat expertise, improved disarm, improved feint, improved trip, combat reflexes, weapon finesse, weapon focus,Scribe scroll, craft magic arms and armor, craft rods, craft staves, craft wand, craft wondrous item, forge ring, *

This is only as rough draft but it seems close to what you said you wanted.

ILM
2005-09-29, 03:27 PM
I don't get this class. Take a Wizard. Give it more HP, more skill points, overall better saves with a weird progression, more proficiencies, the ability to cast in armor, and tweak his bonus feat list a bit, and you get this class. Like a mage, only better ::).

Wih
2005-09-30, 03:32 AM
You want a fighter/mage base class?

Take the bard.
Make him cast Sorceror spells.
Give him a good Fort save instead of Reflex.
Give him bonus fighter feats at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th.
Take away Bardic Music and Knowledge.

Seems balanced to me.
A good example to work from is to take the Battle Sorceror. If it's as powerful as that, it's broken.

TheThan
2005-10-02, 11:25 PM
Thanks again for the additional input.

Ok for the record, Mage Knight is most definitely not the final name, I needed something a bit descriptive and mage knight fit the bill. I could really use some help with coming up with a better name. Besides the name “mage knight” is taken I believe. What I should have stated is that it’s a rough draft.

Well my current update has a medium bab, good fort and will saves, and a poor reflex save. As far as spells goes I really haven’t worked on that part much. Even though I did come up with a suitable spell list for him. As far as the saves go I was shooting for something in-between good and poor (bothers me that there isn’t). I could still work in something but I don’t know if I will. As far as an alignment restriction, sure. I wrote the flavor text after I wrote up the stats. I realized that someone who casts magic and fights well would have to be very dedicated so I mentioned something about it. So I will throw in a lawful alignment restriction.

The inspiration for this class was partially my character from Fable (cool game, easy and short, but a cool game) who was a fighter type with spells that augmented his fighting ability. I also liked the idea behind the Eldritch Knight, but I wanted to be able to play something similar from level 1 so I made this Mage Knight (man I really need a better name for it).

Here is my (current) spell list
{table]

0 level spells
1st level spells
2nd level spells
3rd level spells
4th level spells


acid splash
shield
pro. from arrows
dispel magic
stone skin


Detect magic
Mage armor
Resist energy
heroism
evards black tentacles


Detect poison
Identify
Scorching ray
rage
enlarge person, mass


Dancing lights
True strike
Blur
lightening bolt
Ice storm


Daze
Magic weapon
Bear’s endurance
keen edge
fire shield


Ray of frost
Enlarge person
Bull’s strength
blink
wall of fire


Read magic
Color spray
Eagle’s splendor
ray of exhaustion
wall of ice


Resistance
Magic missile
Cat’s grace
haste
shout


Flare
Mount
Fox’s cunning
magic weapon, greater
remove curse


Touch of fatigue
Ray of enfeeblement
Owl’s wisdom
pro. from energy
globe of invul. lesser

[/table]

If you have any ideas as to improve this list please feel free to post. Any ideas for a better class name would be much appreciated. Thanks again for all the help.

Frojoe21
2005-10-02, 11:54 PM
I suggest you pick up a copy of Arcana Evolved. They have a warrior/Spellcaster class known as the Mage blade. That may fit your needs better.

Legend_Of_Greyhawk
2005-10-03, 01:32 AM
Change the Following to
Ref:
0,0,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6
Fort & Will:
2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,10,10,11,12
Base Attack Bonus:
0,1,2,3,4,5,6,6,7,8,9,9,10,11,12,12,13,14,15
Special
Fighter Bonus Feat At Levels 1,5,9,13,17
Wizard Bonus Feat At Levels 2,6,10,14,18
Spells per day
Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Spells Level 1:0 0 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4
Spells Level 2:0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 2
Spells Level 3:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Level 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Spells Level 1:4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Spells Level 2:3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Spells Level 3:1 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 4 4
Spells Level 4:0 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4
Spells Level 5:0 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 2 3
The Mages Knights Spell Levels Compared To Sorc/Wis
1:1a-2a A(All spells)
2:3a-4b B(Bad spells)
3:4g-5b G(Good Spells)
4:5g-6b
5:6g-7a