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Spasticteapot
2005-09-19, 05:16 PM
Presteige Class:
Follower of the Fencing Way

Although many use light weapons to great effect, few are as skilled as a true fencer. Styled in the fasion of the swordplay manuals of the late 1500's, a Follower of the Fencing Way (“fencer”) is a master in the use of the fencing foil in one hand, and a dagger in the other. Their weapons are less powerful than those of most warriors, and most of their abilities are restricted to light or no armor, but a master fencer is a deadly foe nonetheless.
Fencers are found most commonly in urban areas, and are less commonly found in rural or dungeon-crawling campagins. The majority of fencers are humans, half-elves, and elves; however, gnomish and halfling fencers are not unheard of.
Requirements:
Base attack bonus +5
Skills: Tumble 4 ranks, Jump 2 ranks.
Feats: Two-weapon fighting, weapon finesse, proficiency with dagger and at least one fencing foil.
Special: A fencer must have a Dexterity of at least 15, and an Intelligence of at least 13.

Stats:
Hit Die: D10
Saving throw bonuses: Identical to that of Rouge
Attack bonuses: Same as warrior
Proficiency: All fencing foils, dagger, all light armor.
1st level:
Fencer's Skill:
A fencer gains a +1 bonus to attacks by both hands, reducing the penalty for two-weapon fighting to -1/-1. The bonus increases to +2 at 3rd level. In addition, the fencer gains a +1 shield bonus to armor class when using a fencing foil and a dagger. This bonus increases to +2 at 3rd level, and +3 at 5th level. Both of these abilities require light or no armor to be worn. In addition, weapon feats applying to one weapo apply to both, although bonuses do not stack.
Go for the squishy parts:
To reflect the Fencer's ability to use a rapier to impale the vital organs of his or her opponent, he or she may take a bonus to damage with any fencing foil used, but not the dagger. (maximum of class level or intelligence bonus, whichever is lower). This ability is restricted to light or no armor.
2nd level:
Off-hand defense:
By sacrificing an attack with the off hand (dagger), the fencer may gain a +1 armor class bonus against an opponent until the end of the round. Multiple attacks may be sacrificed, but they must be used against different opponents. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th. This ability requires light or no armor to be worn.
3rd level:
Uncanny Dodge
A fencer gains Uncanny Dodge at 3rd level. See barbarian for details. If the character already has uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge is obtained instead.
4th level:
Greater Fencer's Skill:
A fencer may use his class level as if he were a warrior to determine what feats he can get.
Off-hand Disarm
No penalty is given when making disarms with the off hand.
5th level:
Fencer's Honor
At 5th level, a fencer gains the ability to remain concious past -1 hp, so long as the opponent who brought him down to -1 hp or below is still a valid combat opponent. (i.e. Has not run away, surrendered, fallen unconcious, or died.) The fencer still dies at -10 hp.

This is essentially the tempest, except with a nasty set of armor/weapon restrictions, and a small bonus to damage.

Deathshadow
2005-09-19, 06:09 PM
interesting but Unless I'm mistaken this ability...

"Off-hand Disarm
A fencer may sacrifice all attacks with his off-hand (dagger) in order to make a disarm attempt against an opponent. The fencer may still make attacks with his main hand.
This ability requires light or no armor to be worn. "

Is useless since you can normally use any attack durring a full attack as a disarm, trip, grapple, etc...

Am I miss reading the ability? it seems to give you nothing.

Seerow
2005-09-19, 06:12 PM
It seems a lot like the Duelist but with fewer bonuses, and only 5 levels. Also given ability to use a Dagger and Light Armor....

That said, I like it. If only because I like fencers.

ILM
2005-09-19, 06:22 PM
Requirements:
Base attack bonus +5
Skills: Tumble 4 ranks, Jump 2 ranks.
Feats: Two-weapon fighting, weapon finesse, proficiency with dagger and at least one fencing foil.
Special: A fencer must have a Dexterity of at least 15, and an Intelligence of at least 13.
You should generally avoid prereqs like "at least 14 in charisma" or "must have 2 levels of rogue" (as suggested in DMG II). For instance, you could use feats instead : Improved Two-Weapon Fighting requires a 15 Dex, and Combat Expertise requires an Int of 13. Improved TWF would push the class back a few levels though, so you might just contend with TWF. Also, while I understand the flavour, the fencing foil in D&D terms would be a rapier, so try to keep to that word to avoid confusing hapless readers.


Stats:
Hit Die: D10
Saving throw bonuses: Identical to that of Rouge
Attack bonuses: Same as warrior
Proficiency: All fencing foils, dagger, all light armor.
It's ROGUE !!! ROGUE ferchrissakes !!
*cough* sorry. The proficiencies in rapiers and daggers is kind of useless since you made it a prereq for the class.


1st level:
Fencer's Skill:
A fencer gains a +1 bonus to attacks by both hands, reducing the penalty for two-weapon fighting to -1/-1. The bonus increases to +2 at 3rd level. In addition, the fencer gains a +1 bonus to armor class when using a fencing foil and a dagger. This bonus increases to +2 at 3rd level, and +3 at 5th level. Both of these abilities require light or no armor to be worn. In addition, weapon feats applying to one weapo apply to both, although bonuses do not stack. *In addition, a +2 to damage with the rapier is gained, which increases to +3 at 4th level.
Go for the squishy parts:
To reflect the Fencer's ability to use a rapier to impale the vital organs of his or her opponent, he or she may take a bonus to damage with any fencing foil used, but not the dagger. (maximum of class level or intelligence bonus, whichever is lower). This ability is restricted to light or no armor.
Whoa. Talk about frontloaded. So, +1 to all attacks, +1 to AC, feats applying to both weapons, +2 to damage, and an additional +1 to damage on top ? A few of which scale with level ? Too much. Let's break it down. Here's how I see it :
reducing penalties : -1/-1 at 3rd, +0/+0 at 5th.
AC bonus : OK
Drop the arbitrary +2 damage. You already have the swashbuckler-like damage plus weapon spec, that should be enough for this class.
squishy parts : OK, but you might want to use the same wording as that of Swashbuckler, adding the class level cap - I found your wording a bit confusing at first.
feats usable for both weapons : move it back to 2nd or 4th level just to lighten the load on the first one.


2nd level:
Off-hand defense:
By sacrificing an attack with the off hand (dagger), the fencer may gain a +1 armor class bonus against an opponent until the end of the round. Multiple attacks may be sacrificed, but they must be used against different opponents. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th. *This ability requires light or no armor to be worn.
Not sure how this works : you mean you can sacrifice multiple attacks to get multiple instances of that +1 (or +2) bonus, but each instance can only be applied to one enemy ? Complicated. I'd just state you can sacrifice an attack with your off hand to get a +1 bonus to AC, and that you can do this multiple times. It won't be overpowered because you'll only ever get 3 off-hand attacks. However, in that case a +2 at 4th would be a bit too powerful (+6 AC, yay !).
You should think about specifying what type of bonus the abilities grant. Dodge ? Shield ? Insight ? I'd go for dodge.


3rd level:
Lunge:
At 2nd level, A fencer may make a special lunge attack as a full-attack action. The fencer may then move 5 feet, make a single attack at +2 to hit, +1d6 to damage, and with the critical hit number reduced by two, then move back to the original square. (A rapier would crit on a 16-20.) If the swashbuckler cannot move 5 feet before attacking, this ability cannot be used unless light or no armor is worn. The bonus increases to 2d6+2 at 4th level.
So if I get this right, if you wear light or no armor, you get to do this without moving ? You might want to just drop the whole move 5 feet thing then, since nobody is going to wear medium or heavy armor with that class anyway.
It might be a moot point though, because I'd approach this from another angle : I'd just say that on a charge, the fencer adds another +2 to his crit range, which stacks with Improved Crit or Keen. Charging nets you the + to attack, and again I'd drop the additional damage. Also, I'd move that ability back a bit, because increases to crit range betong IC and Keen are ultra-rare in 3.5e.


Uncanny Dodge
A fencer gains Uncanny Dodge at 3rd level. See barbarian for details. If the character already has uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge is obtained instead. At 4th level, Improved Uncanny Dodge is gained regardless.
Forget about giving Improved Uncanny Dodge at 4th, you already have a ton of abilities as it is.


4th level:
Greater Fencer's Skill:
When using a fencing foil and dagger, the effects of weapon specialization are gained. If the character already has weapon specialization or the the equivalent (see Improved Fencer's Skill above), any fighter bonus feat may be gained.
Basically, you're giving a fighter bonus feat, since by that level all fencers have gained Improved Fencer's Skill (my suggestion of dropping it altogether notwithstanding). I think a bonus feat here is also over the top.


Off-hand Disarm
A fencer may sacrifice all attacks with his off-hand (dagger) in order to make a disarm attempt against an opponent. The fencer may still make attacks with his main hand.
This ability requires light or no armor to be worn.

What's the point ? You can make disarm attempts anyway with every attack (it's a type of attack ; you could make as many as you get attacks in a full-attack action). Why don't you give the Improved Disarm feat instead ?


5th level:
Fencer's Honor
At 5th level, a fencer gains the ability to remain concious past -1 hp, so long as the opponent who brought him down to -1 hp or below is still a valid combat opponent. (i.e. Has not run away, surrendered, fallen unconcious, or died.) The fencer still dies at -10 hp.
I think it might be a bit heavy in the bookkeeping department. Just say that a fencer can go on fighting between -1 and -10 but still dies at -10. Personally I don't think it really matches the flavour of the class, but it's your PrC, not mine.

So in conclusion, the table would look like this (sorry, I suck at code)

lvl 1 : AC bonus (+1), Go for the squishy parts
lvl 2 : Weapon-specific feats can now be used for both weapons, Off-hand defense
lvl 3 : AC bonus (+2), Uncanny Dodge, reduced TWF penalty (-1/-1)
lvl 4 : Lunge (+2 crit range on charges), Improved Disarm
lvl 5 : AC bonus (+3), Fencer's Honor, reduced TWF penalty (+0/+0)

At level 5, you have gained :
+3 AC
+2 to all attacks
+5 damage all the time
Uncanny dodge (or Improved if you had it before)
Improved Disarm
Off-hand defense
+2 to your crit range on a charge
ability to fight even in negative HPs
full BAB
good Reflex save

Frankly, it's still overpowered like this, mainly due to the crit-improving Lunge and the Fencer's Honor in only 5 levels. If you really want those two abilities and want to keep it balanced, I'd make this a 10-level class. In that case you could outright make the crit increase apply to all attacks (would get it around level 7), and probably have room for one bonus fighter feat.

Seerow
2005-09-19, 06:40 PM
You should think about specifying what type of bonus the abilities grant. Dodge ? Shield ? Insight ? I'd go for dodge.

Id say Deflection actually suits the intent better. He's using his knife to block instead of attack, not sacrificing an attack to dodge better. Possibly a shield bonus, but deflection strikes me as the best.

Annarrkkii
2005-09-19, 07:44 PM
NO, sorry, no deflection. See, if you say deflection than you're into the realm of incorporeal-ness. And it wouldn't stack with a ring of deflection. See, deflection, dodge, and Dex, are the only bonuses that work against incorporeals. Shield of Faith and ring of protectiona re both deflection and don't stack. But why would a ring of protection cancel out dagger parry.

I say that either dodge or shield is better, as Combat Expertise gives you dodge and Two-Weapon Defense gives you shield.

Spasticteapot
2005-09-19, 09:04 PM
Post has been editied.

Apparently, I had added the bonus to damage three times. It's been fixed.