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GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-16, 06:19 PM
What the name suggests. Post your own. 3.5, by the way. If 4th edition has prestige classes, I'll make a separate table for those.

3.5
{table=head]Name|Author|Original post #|Prerequisites|HD|Skill points|BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting
Magus|GreatWyrmGold|n/a|Magus (see below), able to cast 2nd level arcane spells in two different classes|d4|2+Int mod|+0|+0|+0|+2|Improved Casting|+1 level of wizard and sorceror
Destroyer|GreatWyrmGold|n/a|Power Attack, Improved Sunder, BaB +6|d10|2+Int mod|+1|+2|+0|+0|Smash!|-
Weapon Master|Djinn_in_Tonic|9|BaB+15, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization|d10|?|+1|+1|+0|+0|One With the Weapon, Flawless Defense|-
Adamant One|Djin_in_Tonic|9|Warforged, Base Fortitude Save +8, Adamantine Body|d12|?|+1|+1|+0|+0|Solid Core, Plated Soul|-
Master|Djin_in_Tonic|9|Skill Focus (any), 12 ranks in any 3 skills|d8|10+Int mod|+0|+1|+1|+1|Supreme Skill|-
Trained by the Master|Djin_in_Tonic|16|BaB +7, must have spent at least one month in training with a master level fighting instructor|d10|?|+1|+1|+1|+1|Advanced Tricks, Bonus Feat|-
Vengeful Hunter|Djinn_in_Tonic|16|Must have been terribly wronged by members of a single species.|d10|?|+1|+1|+0|+1|Hunted Foe, Track, Fueled by Revenge|-
Stalked by the Dead|TSED|20|Must have taken at least one point of damage from starvation or dehydration in order to avoid coming in contact with the Undead|d8|6+Int mod|+0|+1|+1|+1|Their Eyes Rot, Long Nights, Hardiness|-
Consumate Warrior|Omegonthesane|25|BaB +5, proficient with all martial weapons|d8|2+Int mod|Good|Good|Good|Poor|Absolute Weapon Proficiency, Always Ready, Greater Magic Weapon|-
Kung Fu Warrior|Telonius|27|Prerequisites: Ki Strike (lawful), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), and Power Attack|d12|4+Int mod|+1|+1|+1|+1|Armored in Life, Way of the Warrior, Plodding Force|-
Used to Cthulu|Lysander|28|Iron Will, 5 ranks Knowledge Religion, 5 Ranks Knowledge Planes, Frequently encountering incredibly powerful outsiders, deities, and/or aberrations|d6|3+Int mod|+1|+0|+0|+2|Punching the Mouth of Madness, Eldritch Tomes Are A Fun Read, Meh, Horrific Empathy|-
Steven Seagall|Lysander|36|Monk 5 levels, Stunning Fist, successfully repelling a large crowd of invaders from a boat|d10|2+Int mod|+1|+2|0|0|C@#kpuncher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEsbY1-9UYg), Neckbreaker, Warrior's Ponytail|-
Consummate Warrior, v 2.0|Omegonthesane|2537|Melee Weapon Mastery OR Ranged Weapon Mastery, proficient with all martial weapons|d8|2+Int mod|+1|+1|+1|+0|Absolute Weapon Proficiency, Always Ready, Greater Magic Weapon|-
Evoled Specimen|jagadaishio|38|Requirements: LA +2 or higher, three or more hit dice|d4|2+Int mod|+1/2|+0|+0|+0|Adjusted Level|-
Generalist Mage|JoshuaZ|48|Caster level at least 1 in a class and caster level at least 5 in another class|d4|2+Int mod|+0|+0|+0|+1|Arcane Power|Oddly, -. :smallconfused:
Weapons Master|JoshuaZ|53|BAB +5, proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, Weapon Focus in a simple weapon and a martial weapon|d10|2+Int mod|+1|+1|+1|+0|General Weapon Focus|-
Necromantic Dabbler|JoshuaZ|53|Able to cast a third level necromancy spell|d10|2+Int mod|+0|+1|+0|+1|Efficient Animation, Necromantic Prowess|-[/table]

Class skills
Magus: Concentration, Knowledge (all skills takes separatly), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Destroyer: Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Swim
Weapon Master: Unknown
Adamant One: Unknown
Master: All skills you have ranks in currently
Trained by the Master: Unknown
Vengeful Hunter: Unknown
Stalked by the Dead: Unknown
Consumate Warrior: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, and Swim; v 2.0
Kung Fu Warrior: As monk
Used to Cthulu: Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion, Planes), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Search
Steven Seagall: Escape Artist, Intimidate, Profession (Chef), Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Swim
Evolved Specimen: None
Generalist Mage: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (arcana, religion, the planes), Profession, Spellcraft
Weapons Master: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Ride, Spot, Swim
Necromatic Dabbler: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (religion, arcana), Profession, and Spellcraft

Ability Descriptions
Improved Casting (SU): By expending a sorceror spell slot, the magus can cast a prepared wizard spell one level lower than the expended slot witout expending the spell from memory.

Smash! (EX): A destroyer using Power Attack gains a +1 bonus on damage rolls, or +5 against objects.

One With the Weapon (Ex): Whenever she wields her chosen weapon, a Weapons Master gains a +2 Mastery bonus to all attack rolls, saving throws, trip attempts, disarm attempts, and rolls to resist trips, disarms, or grapples.

Flawless Defense (Ex): Whenever she wields her chosen weapon, a Weapons Master takes only half damage from any melee or ranged weapon attack (excepting siege weapons). Reduce the damage before applying Damage Reduction and similar effects.

Solid Core (Ex): You resist damage and elemental effects as if you were an object. Any damage reduction X/adamantine you have changes to an equal amount of Hardness.

Plated Soul (Ex): You gain a +2 Armor bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities that can only target creatures.

Advanced Tricks (Ex): Whenever you gain a feat, you may treat your character level, any trained skills, your base attack bonus and all your ability scores and base saving throws as being 3 points higher (or having 3 more ranks) for the purposes of meeting minimum requirements for feats. Additionally, you may ignore up to 1 prerequisite feat (although effects that improve upon the functionality of the feat you ignore will not function if you lack the feat in question). This ability does not help you qualify for Epic feats before 21st level.

Bonus Feat: You gain a single feat for which you quality (include Advanced Tricks when determining if you qualify).

Hunted Foe (Ex): You gain a bonus to damage rolls and Survival checks (when tracking) against the species in question. This bonus is equal to 1/2 your total character level.

Track (Ex): You gain Track as a bonus feat.

Fueled by Revenge (Ex): When tracking your chosen species, you may move at full speed with no penalty. When a member of your chosen species is within 30 feet of you, you may continue to fight without penalty when disabled or dying.

Their Eyes Rot (Ex): All undead take a -5 to spot, search, and listen checks related to finding you. In addition, an undead with blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense cannot use the aforementioned sense to immediately locate you. They know you are in the area, but must make the spot and listen checks as normal to find you (at the -5 penalty). This ability applies to any ally who is within 5' of you, but only if neither of you are moving.

Long Nights (Ex): You have spent many hours awake, staying attentive in case the abominations outside require you to act. You require two fatigue effects to make you fatigued, and another two fatigue effects to make you exhausted. Effects that normally cause exhaustion count as two fatigue effects.

Hardiness (Ex): You are a survivor, and your soul and being is NOT going to let some abomination take that away from you. Whenever you should roll a saving throw against ability-draining or damaging powers from the undead, you may roll two dice at once instead. If either roll + your appropriate save passes, you succeeded on the saving throw. If the ability does not normally allow a saving throw, you may roll one dice (and only one dice) in an attempt to make the save. It is a fortitude save with a DC equal to the undead's HD + its highest ability modifier.

Absolute Weapon Proficiency: A Consummate Warrior is proficient with all simple, martial, and exotic weapons, nonweapons, other party members, and anything else you can think of that can be wielded as a weapon with any degree of practicality.

Always Ready: A consummate warrior never takes any penalties for sleeping in medium or heavy armour.

Greater Magic Weapon: As the spell, 1/day, caster level equal to Base Attack Bonus. Because there's probably no better way to make sure that a martial class has an appropriately magicked weapon.
v. 2.0:
Absolute Weapon Proficiency: A Consummate Warrior with the Melee Weapon Mastery feat is proficient with all exotic melee weapons and all non-weapons used as melee weapons. A Consummate Warrior with the Ranged Weapon Mastery feat is proficient with all exotic ranged weapons, all thrown non-weapons, and all thrown party members* A Consummate Warrior with both feats gets both sets of benefits.
Always Ready: A consummate warrior never takes any penalties for sleeping in medium or heavy armour.
Hardcore: A Consummate Warrior does not need magicians to provide him with weapons appropriate to his level. Weapons in the Consummate Warrior's possession gain an enhancement bonus equal to his Base Attack Bonus divided by four, rounding up, to a maximum of +5. This does not stack with other enhancement bonuses and is lost if the weapon leaves his possession. This applies to melee weapons if he has the Melee Weapon Mastery feat, and to ranged weapons if he has the Ranged Weapon Mastery feat, and to both if he has both.
*I agree with Flickerdart, this WON'T end well. :smallbiggrin:

Armored in Life (EX): A Kung Fu Warrior gains proficiency in Padded, Leather, and Studded Leather armor. Wearing these armors no longer hinder the Monk's movement speed, no longer prevents the Monk from adding Wisdom bonus (if any) to AC, and no longer prevents the Monk from using the Flurry of Blows ability.

Way of the Warrior (EX): The Kung Fu Warrior gains proficiency in Gauntlets and the Warrior's choice of one martial or exotic weapon; these weapons will be considered Monk Weapons for the purpose of delivering a flurry of blows. The Base Attack Bonus for all current and future levels of Monk change from Rogue progression to Fighter progression.

Plodding Force (EX): The level of Kung Fu Warrior stacks with levels in Monk for the purposes of determining AC bonus and Unarmed Damage. A level in Kung Fu Warrior does not prevent a character from taking further levels in Monk. However, the Monk's Unarmored Speed Bonus decreases by 10 feet at each level. (For example, a Monk 19/KFW1 would have a speed bonus of 50).

Punching the Mouth of Madness (SU?): A person Used to Cthulu is immune to fear magical and otherwise. Additionally when in the presence of a creature capable of generating a fear aura or having a frightful presence the Used to Cthulu receives a +2 Bab bonus to attack that creature, +2 to all will saves to resist any affect caused by that creature, and +2 to any intimidate checks against that creature (if possible).

Eldritch Tomes Are A Fun Read (SU?): A Used to Cthulu never triggers Symbol spells unless they want to. They can still be affected if someone else triggers them. This does not prevent them from triggering Explosive Runes and other non-symbol spells activated on sight.

Meh (EX?): A Used to Cthulu receives a +10 bonus to her will save to avoid being affected by divine auras and to avoid being affected by confusion spells such as Confusion or Insanity.

Omnipotent Empathy (SU?): A Used to Cthulu can improve the attitude of supremely powerful deities, outsiders, and aberrations that are normally impossible to use Diplomacy checks on, even if they are so alien mortals can barely comprehend what they are or communicate with them. The Used to Cthulu rolls 1d20 and adds her character level and her Charisma modifier to determine the omnipotent empathy check result. Most beings capable of being affected are indifferent or unfriendly.
Even if successful beings this powerful are unlikely to befriend the Used to Cthulu, but may be convinced into doing a small one-time favor like plane shifting them elsewhere or answering a question. Most often the ability is used to simply not be immediately eliminated by being in the being's general vicinity.

C@#kpuncher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEsbY1-9UYg) (SU): A Steven Seagall level counts as a Monk level for determining Stunning Fists per day. Whenever Steven Seagall successfully uses a stunning fist on a humanoid male they can make it an extremely painful blow. The person is rendered mute for a number of rounds equal to Steven Seagall's strength bonus.

Neckbreaker (EX): Whenever a Steven Seagall wins a grapple by 5 or more against a person with up to half their HD, that person can be instantly killed unless they survive a DC20 fortitude save. This only works against living creatures with necks.

Warrior's Ponytail (EX): If Steven Seagall has a ponytail he receives +2 to all intimidate checks, and +4 to intimidate checks against people trespassing on a ship.

Adjusted Level (Ex): An Evolved Specimen has her level adjustment reduced by an amount equal to one-half her level adjustment, rounded down. So, for example, an Evolved Specimen with a level adjustment of +2 or +3 would have it reduced by one, and an Evolved Specimen with a level adjustment of +4 or +5 would have it reduced by two.

The reduction in the Evolved Specimen's effective level awards her bonus experience points as per a character of her level.

Arcane Power: You get a +4 bonus to caster level for all classes (this applies also to classes which have caster levels but do not cast spells such as the Warlock) . This bonus does not give you additional spells known, spell slots, spells per a day or any similar benefit. It only increases effective caster level. This bonus cannot increase your effective caster level for any class beyond your hit die.

General Weapon Focus (EX): You are treated as having Weapon Focus in every simple and martial weapon as well as in any exotic weapon that you have proficiency in. These feats cannot be swapped out or retrained. If you ever lose the actual copies of Weapon Focus you need to qualify for this class, you lose the benefits of this class until you regain them.

Efficient Animation (SU): You may treat Animate Dead as a third level spell on any class you can cast 3rd level spells in. If a class uses spells known, it automatically gets this as a bonus spell known. If a class prepares spells, you may prepare this spell without consulting a spellbook or similar object (just as if you had Spell Mastery).

Necromantic Prowess (EX): You are treated as being a specialist necromancer for purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes which have being a specialist necromancer as a prerequisite. You also gain a +1 bonus to caster level for all necromancy spells.

Feats
Magus
You are a master of two arcane arts.
Prerequisite: At least two levels each in wizard and sorceror
Benifet: Your effective caster levels in wizard and sorceror increase by 2 each.

Please, feel free to come up with your own!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-16, 06:30 PM
Huh? In my mind, any class that can be entirely summed up with a single feature belongs as either a base class variant or a feat (or possible feat chain). A prestige class is supposed to define your character...a single level won't do that. It a "what are you" deal.

A Rogue 8/Shadowdancer 10 will most likely say "I'm a shadowdancer."

Will a Sorcerer 15/Magus 1 claim the same? Doubtful. Therefore, it's better off as a feat.

Kalbron
2009-07-16, 06:46 PM
Maybe that would be because a 15/1 Sorceror/Magus couldn't exist? It would need to be a 15/3/1 Sorceror/Wizard/Magus.

The class seems interesting, but not particularly useful.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-16, 06:48 PM
Maybe that would be because a 15/1 Sorceror/Magus couldn't exist? It would need to be a 15/3/1 Sorceror/Wizard/Magus.

Feh. A minor detail. The point still stands.

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-16, 06:49 PM
Huh? In my mind, any class that can be entirely summed up with a single feature belongs as either a base class variant or a feat (or possible feat chain). A prestige class is supposed to define your character...a single level won't do that. It a "what are you" deal.

A Rogue 8/Shadowdancer 10 will most likely say "I'm a shadowdancer."

Will a Sorcerer 15/Magus 1 claim the same? Doubtful. Therefore, it's better off as a feat.

More like a Wizard 7/Sorceror 8/ Magus 1. Edit: Ninja'd. And ninja replied to.
These are to help out parts of your character, not define one.
Classes are monsters. A specific role is, say, dragons. Prestige classes are more specific (gold dragons), while 1-level prestige classes help one be better in what he/she does in a cross between a feat and a prestige class that helps make a character more unique (a dragon).

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-16, 08:04 PM
Huh? In my mind, any class that can be entirely summed up with a single feature belongs as either a base class variant or a feat (or possible feat chain). A prestige class is supposed to define your character...a single level won't do that.

I can see where he's coming from. A level is a more significant investment than a feat (you have fewer feats, but taking a level retards your leveling progress in a way feats don't) and having an alternate class feature limits it to one class (as opposed to an "any arcane caster" PrC or the like).

PrCs were supposed to define your character, and specialize you at the cost of power, and help customize campaigns, but that was pretty much thrown out the window after the DMG, quickly giving way to either "really flavorful and specialized but useless" PrCs and "moar power" PrCs. In the grand scheme of things, 1-level PrCs aren't all that bad.

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-16, 08:07 PM
I can see where he's coming from. A level is a more significant investment than a feat (you have fewer feats, but taking a level retards your leveling progress in a way feats don't) and having an alternate class feature limits it to one class (as opposed to an "any arcane caster" PrC or the like).

PrCs were supposed to define your character, and specialize you at the cost of power, and help customize campaigns, but that was pretty much thrown out the window after the DMG, quickly giving way to either "really flavorful and specialized but useless" PrCs and "moar power" PrCs. In the grand scheme of things, 1-level PrCs aren't all that bad.

Whoo!
I'd like to ask people to add their own 1-level prestige classes. Again.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-16, 08:20 PM
I can see where he's coming from. A level is a more significant investment than a feat (you have fewer feats, but taking a level retards your leveling progress in a way feats don't) and having an alternate class feature limits it to one class (as opposed to an "any arcane caster" PrC or the like).

PrCs were supposed to define your character, and specialize you at the cost of power, and help customize campaigns, but that was pretty much thrown out the window after the DMG, quickly giving way to either "really flavorful and specialized but useless" PrCs and "moar power" PrCs. In the grand scheme of things, 1-level PrCs aren't all that bad.

I suppose so. Well, I'll give it a shot and see what I think after experimenting.


Whoo!
I'd like to ask people to add their own 1-level prestige classes. Again.

Alright. I can hop on the bandwagon even if I was driving in the opposite direction at first. Give me a few minutes...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-16, 08:27 PM
Weapons Master

Hit Dice: d10

Prerequisites
Base Attack Bonus: +15
Feats: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+1|+0|+0|One With the Weapon, Flawless Defense[/table]

One With the Weapon (Ex): Whenever she wields her chosen weapon, a Weapons Master gains a +2 Mastery bonus to all attack rolls, saving throws, trip attempts, disarm attempts, and rolls to resist trips, disarms, or grapples.

Flawless Defense (Ex): Whenever she wields her chosen weapon, a Weapons Master takes only half damage from any melee or ranged weapon attack (excepting siege weapons). Reduce the damage before applying Damage Reduction and similar effects.



Adamant One

Hit Dice: d12

Prerequisites
Race: Warforged
Base Fortitude Save: +8
Feats: Adamantine Body

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+1|+0|+0|Solid Core, Plated Soul[/table]

Solid Core (Ex): You resist damage and elemental effects as if you were an object. Any damage reduction X/adamantine you have changes to an equal amount of Hardness.

Plated Soul (Ex): You gain a +2 Armor bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities that can only target creatures.



Master

Hit Dice: d8

Prerequisites
Feats: Skill Focus (any)
Skills: 12 ranks in any three skills

Skill Points: 10 + Intelligence modifier
Class SKills: All skills you have ranks in currently

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+0|+1|+1|+1|Supreme Skill[/table]

Supreme Skill (Ex): Whenever you could take 10 with a skill you have ranks in, you may take 15 instead. Whenever you could take 20 with a skill you have ranks in, you may take 25 instead.

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-16, 08:34 PM
Added Weapon Master, Magus feat fluff, bolding.
Djinn, please let me know about HD/skills.
And, please more of these?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-16, 08:36 PM
Added Weapon Master, Magus feat fluff, bolding.
Djinn, please let me know about HD/skills.
And, please more of these?

Hit dice added...not sure about skills, but I can't be bothered at the moment. :smallbiggrin:

Vaynor
2009-07-16, 09:50 PM
Wait a second, 1 level and you get half damage on all physical attacks? That's ridiculously overpowered.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-16, 09:54 PM
Wait a second, 1 level and you get half damage on all physical attacks? That's ridiculously overpowered.

And is available only to the fighter (and possibly Warblade). At level 16.

Maybe it is really overpowered. I made it without thinking, since it's just a 1 level class and I was bored. But I do think martial classes need some good stuff as well...I mean, at the same level I could cast Ironguard and become immune to all metal weapons...that'll invalidate an encounter. Or cast Displacement, for a 50% miss chance...which comes down to the same thing, but works for some magic as well.

Vaynor
2009-07-16, 10:20 PM
And is available only to the fighter (and possibly Warblade). At level 16.

Maybe it is really overpowered. I made it without thinking, since it's just a 1 level class and I was bored. But I do think martial classes need some good stuff as well...I mean, at the same level I could cast Ironguard and become immune to all metal weapons...that'll invalidate an encounter. Or cast Displacement, for a 50% miss chance...which comes down to the same thing, but works for some magic as well.

Well, I think giving them some DR would make sense, but outright halving all physical damage taken seems a little over the top. This is much more powerful than most epic monsters' DR.

Lysander
2009-07-16, 11:57 PM
As a general idea, one level prestige classes could be used to mark significant events in a character's life that affect their abilities rather than years of training.

For example (with hypothetical Prcs)

After spending a month training with a martial arts master you might take a level in Trained By The Master.

After having your village destroyed by Orcs you might take a level in Vengeful Stalker.

So rather than being the focus of the character's life like Fighter or Paladin, it's a moment that makes up a small but important part of their outlook.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-17, 12:13 AM
I like it, Lysander. In fact...


Trained By the Master

Hit Dice: d10

Prerequisites
Base Attack Bonus: +7
Special: Must have spent at least one month in training with a master level fighting instructor.

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+1|+1|+1|Advanced Tricks, Bonus Feat[/table]

Advanced Tricks (Ex): Whenever you gain a feat, you may treat your character level, any trained skills, your base attack bonus and all your ability scores and base saving throws as being 3 points higher (or having 3 more ranks) for the purposes of meeting minimum requirements for feats. Additionally, you may ignore up to 1 prerequisite feat (although effects that improve upon the functionality of the feat you ignore will not function if you lack the feat in question). This ability does not help you qualify for Epic feats before 21st level.

Bonus Feat: You gain a single feat for which you quality (include Advanced Tricks when determining if you qualify).



Vengeful Stalker

Hit Dice: d10

Prerequisites
Special: Must have been terribly wronged by members of a single species.

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+1|+0|+1|Hunted Foe, Track, Fueled by Revenge[/table]

Hunted Foe (Ex): You gain a bonus to damage rolls and Survival checks (when tracking) against the species in question. This bonus is equal to 1/2 your total character level.

Track (Ex): You gain Track as a bonus feat.

Fueled by Revenge (Ex): When tracking your chosen species, you may move at full speed with no penalty. When a member of your chosen species is within 30 feet of you, you may continue to fight without penalty when disabled or dying.


*****

Note for potential designers: Keep saving throw bonuses limited to +1. Otherwise stacking these classes will lead to incredibly high bonuses, which we don't really want.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-17, 08:09 AM
Well, I think giving them some DR would make sense, but outright halving all physical damage taken seems a little over the top. This is much more powerful than most epic monsters' DR.

1) There already exist many effects to let you take half damage from various things (energy damage, area affects, etc.), at least one or two of which apply to physical damage; DR 1/2 isn't really that impressive.

2) Aside from the fact that most epic monsters aren't all that impressive themselves, if you're not playing epic (and the majority of players don't), this is within the bounds of a high-level fighter's ability.

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-18, 04:24 PM
Note for potential designers: Keep saving throw bonuses limited to +1. Otherwise stacking these classes will lead to incredibly high bonuses, which we don't really want.

Note to Djinn: Yeah, but +2 is the standard for good saving throws. I hope you don't mind my slight shifts for that fact.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-19, 12:58 AM
Note to Djinn: Yeah, but +2 is the standard for good saving throws. I hope you don't mind my slight shifts for that fact.

I do, actually, for the sake of balance. These classes last only 1 level...they should function more like a standard progression in that manner, not like a new class. Otherwise several of these such things could send a character's saves into the stratosphere. Which isn't a good thing.

So, if you're going to use my work outside of my posts, please use it as I posted it, will you? What you do in your own games is fine, but duplications of my work should be as I intended it.

Thanks.

TSED
2009-07-19, 02:04 AM
I suspect I crammed too much into this...

Stalked By The Dead

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 6 + Int mod

Prerequisites
Special: Must have taken at least one point of damage from starvation or dehydration in order to avoid coming in contact with the Undead.

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+0|+1|+1|+1|Their Eyes Rot, Long Nights, Hardiness[/table]

Their Eyes Rot (Ex): All undead take a -5 to spot, search, and listen checks related to finding you. In addition, an undead with blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense cannot use the aforementioned sense to immediately locate you. They know you are in the area, but must make the spot and listen checks as normal to find you (at the -5 penalty). This ability applies to any ally who is within 5' of you, but only if neither of you are moving.

Long Nights (Ex): You have spent many hours awake, staying attentive in case the abominations outside require you to act. You require two fatigue effects to make you fatigued, and another two fatigue effects to make you exhausted. Effects that normally cause exhaustion count as two fatigue effects.

Hardiness (Ex): You are a survivor, and your soul and being is NOT going to let some abomination take that away from you. Whenever you should roll a saving throw against ability-draining or damaging powers from the undead, you may roll two dice at once instead. If either roll + your appropriate save passes, you succeeded on the saving throw. If the ability does not normally allow a saving throw, you may roll one dice (and only one dice) in an attempt to make the save. It is a fortitude save with a DC equal to the undead's HD + its highest ability modifier.

Lord Loss
2009-07-19, 06:45 AM
I like it, but you need to change it a bit. For instance, A sorcerer level 12/ Wizard level Nine would become a Magus Sorcerer level 12/ Magus Wizard level 8.

Also , a player can only ever take one of these for each class/ set of classes 9magus would count as a sorcerer/wizard amplification, and would take up both slots), which could be known as Class Amplifications

So if I took the Skullcrusher Class Amplification (Barabarian)

Skullcrusher Barabrian 3/ Ranger 4

I could not take the Darkholm Raider Class Amplification (Barbarian)

but I could take the Beastkeeper of Fenn Class amplification (Ranger)

And become:

Skullcrusher Barbarian 3/ Beastkeeper of Fenn Ranger 4

jagadaishio
2009-07-19, 04:24 PM
I suspect I crammed too much into this...

Stalked By The Dead

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 6 + Int mod

Prerequisites
Special: Must have taken at least one point of damage from starvation or dehydration in order to avoid coming in contact with the Undead.

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+0|+1|+1|+1|Their Eyes Rot, Long Nights, Hardiness[/table]

Their Eyes Rot (Ex): All undead take a -5 to spot, search, and listen checks related to finding you. In addition, an undead with blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense cannot use the aforementioned sense to immediately locate you. They know you are in the area, but must make the spot and listen checks as normal to find you (at the -5 penalty). This ability applies to any ally who is within 5' of you, but only if neither of you are moving.

Long Nights (Ex): You have spent many hours awake, staying attentive in case the abominations outside require you to act. You require two fatigue effects to make you fatigued, and another two fatigue effects to make you exhausted. Effects that normally cause exhaustion count as two fatigue effects.

Hardiness (Ex): You are a survivor, and your soul and being is NOT going to let some abomination take that away from you. Whenever you should roll a saving throw against ability-draining or damaging powers from the undead, you may roll two dice at once instead. If either roll + your appropriate save passes, you succeeded on the saving throw. If the ability does not normally allow a saving throw, you may roll one dice (and only one dice) in an attempt to make the save. It is a fortitude save with a DC equal to the undead's HD + its highest ability modifier.

What are the class's skills? Also, for the purpose of fractional BAB, does it have 1/2 or 3/4 BAB? Aside from that, it looks just fine. Unless you're playing in a game where the majority of your enemies are undead, it is specialized enough that there aren't anywhere near too many features. Plus, this class seems like it would suit a stealth class best, and most of those can't use their offensive class features against undead anyway. If anything, I would switch out Hardiness for something that allows a character to sneak attack or skirmish an undead, if not crit on them.

Lord Loss
2009-07-19, 05:10 PM
Shadow Stalker

Rogue Class Amplification

Prerequisites:
Sneak Attack +3d6,

Must have been reduced to negative health by an incorporeal undead creature

BAB Fort Will Ref
Special
+0 +0 +1 +1 You may use greater invisibility once per day for an amount of rounds equal to 1/2 your rogue levels. Sneak attack made whilst under this effect deal 1/2 damage.

Sorry, i don't know how to make a table.

TSED
2009-07-19, 09:44 PM
What are the class's skills? Also, for the purpose of fractional BAB, does it have 1/2 or 3/4 BAB? Aside from that, it looks just fine. Unless you're playing in a game where the majority of your enemies are undead, it is specialized enough that there aren't anywhere near too many features. Plus, this class seems like it would suit a stealth class best, and most of those can't use their offensive class features against undead anyway. If anything, I would switch out Hardiness for something that allows a character to sneak attack or skirmish an undead, if not crit on them.

None of them so far have made any class skills. Heh.

I'd put the BAB at 3/4, and the reason I didn't give it the ability to perform precision damage on undead is because... Well, it's a runner. A hider. A survivor. NOT a vengeful person, not an anything. Not just limited to rogues etc., though the rogue etc. skill set definitely helps a survivor out.

Omegonthesane
2009-07-20, 08:47 AM
I can't be the first to propose this change to the system:
Have no more tables per level. Instead, refer always to the Good Save and Poor Save tables, and replace "+whatever" in the Saves section of all classes with Good or Poor depending on what the save is. Then your final resultant save is your Good save + your Poor save in that category. For example, a 3 Fighter/3 Barbarian/3 Wizard would have 6 levels of Good Fortitude save and 3 levels of Poor Fortitude save, for a total Fortitude save of +6.

Do the same for BaB, only you'd obviously have Good/Medium/Poor BaB instead of just Good/Poor. People who take one level of Poor BaB and one of Medium BaB for a total of +0 are still screwed, which is unfortunate, but who's affected by that in core? Mystic Theurge and...?

EDIT: Oh, sorry, should really add a 1-level PrC too...

Consummate Warrior
"You thought YOU were good with weapons?"
{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
Good|Good|Good|Poor|Absolute Weapon Proficiency, Always Ready, Greater Magic Weapon[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Requirements: BaB +5, proficient with all martial weapons

Class Skills
The consummate warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

Absolute Weapon Proficiency: A Consummate Warrior is proficient with all simple, martial, and exotic weapons, nonweapons, other party members, and anything else you can think of that can be wielded as a weapon with any degree of practicality.
Always Ready: A consummate warrior never takes any penalties for sleeping in medium or heavy armour.
Greater Magic Weapon: As the spell, 1/day, caster level equal to Base Attack Bonus. Because there's probably no better way to make sure that a martial class has an appropriately magicked weapon.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-20, 09:18 AM
Have no more tables per level. Instead, refer always to the Good Save and Poor Save tables, and replace "+whatever" in the Saves section of all classes with Good or Poor depending on what the save is. Then your final resultant save is your Good save + your Poor save in that category. For example, a 3 Fighter/3 Barbarian/3 Wizard would have 6 levels of Good Fortitude save and 3 levels of Poor Fortitude save, for a total Fortitude save of +6.

Well, it's been suggested many times, but...

1) It's easier for reference; you just have to look at the table, rather than checking which progression something has and then either remembering the number at that level or referencing a different table.

2) More importantly, we old-edition gamers likes us some tables. Removing BAB columns and replacing them with a single word would make THAC0 cry. :smallwink:

Telonius
2009-07-20, 10:04 AM
Kung Fu Warrior

Prerequisites: Ki Strike (lawful), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), and Power Attack.
Class skills: Same as Monk.
{table]Prerequisites|HD|Skill Points|BAB|Fort|Reflex|Will|Special
Ki Strike (lawful), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Power Attack|d12|4+Int|+1|+1|+1|+1|Armored in Life, Way of the Warrior, Plodding Force[/table]

Armored in Life (ex): A Kung Fu Warrior gains proficiency in Padded, Leather, and Studded Leather armor. Wearing these armors no longer hinder the Monk's movement speed, no longer prevents the Monk from adding Wisdom bonus (if any) to AC, and no longer prevents the Monk from using the Flurry of Blows ability.
Way of the Warrior (ex): The Kung Fu Warrior gains proficiency in Gauntlets and the Warrior's choice of one martial or exotic weapon; these weapons will be considered Monk Weapons for the purpose of delivering a flurry of blows. The Base Attack Bonus for all current and future levels of Monk change from Rogue progression to Fighter progression.
Plodding Force (ex): The level of Kung Fu Warrior stacks with levels in Monk for the purposes of determining AC bonus and Unarmed Damage. A level in Kung Fu Warrior does not prevent a character from taking further levels in Monk. However, the Monk's Unarmored Speed Bonus decreases by 10 feet at each level. (For example, a Monk 19/KFW1 would have a speed bonus of 50).

Lysander
2009-07-20, 11:01 AM
Used to Cthulu

You have seen sights that would drive most people mad. By now it's all old hat to you.

Prerequisite
Iron Will, 5 ranks Knowledge Religion, 5 Ranks Knowledge Planes, Frequently encountering incredibly powerful outsiders, deities, and/or aberrations.


Hit Die: d6

Skill points
3 + Int Bonus

Class Skills
Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion, Planes), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Search

Special: A Used to Cthulu can learn to speak Abyssal, Celestial, or Infernal as a free bonus language (pick one).

{table=head]Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+0|+0|+2|Punching the Mouth of Madness, Eldritch Tomes Are A Fun Read, Meh, Horrific Empathy
[/table]

Punching the Mouth of Madness
A person Used to Cthulu is immune to fear magical and otherwise. Additionally when in the presence of a creature capable of generating a fear aura or having a frightful presence the Used to Cthulu receives a +2 Bab bonus to attack that creature, +2 to all will saves to resist any affect caused by that creature, and +2 to any intimidate checks against that creature (if possible).

Eldritch Tomes Are A Fun Read
A Used to Cthulu never triggers Symbol spells unless they want to. They can still be affected if someone else triggers them. This does not prevent them from triggering Explosive Runes and other non-symbol spells activated on sight.

Meh
A Used to Cthulu receives a +10 bonus to her will save to avoid being affected by divine auras and to avoid being affected by confusion spells such as Confusion or Insanity.

Omnipotent Empathy
A Used to Cthulu can improve the attitude of supremely powerful deities, outsiders, and aberrations that are normally impossible to use Diplomacy checks on, even if they are so alien mortals can barely comprehend what they are or communicate with them. The Used to Cthulu rolls 1d20 and adds her character level and her Charisma modifier to determine the omnipotent empathy check result. Most beings capable of being affected are indifferent or unfriendly.

Even if successful beings this powerful are unlikely to befriend the Used to Cthulu, but may be convinced into doing a small one-time favor like plane shifting them elsewhere or answering a question. Most often the ability is used to simply not be immediately eliminated by being in the being's general vicinity.

Cieyrin
2009-07-20, 11:19 AM
I rather take issue with Consummate Warrior's Absolute Weapon Proficiency, as that's worse than the 3.0 Exotic Weapon Master with even easier requirements to get in. I'd recommend if you want something like that, reduce the nonproficiency penalties to -2, to show familiarity with stuff or if you absolutely insist on having it, increase the requirements to get in, as that's way too low right now. I'd recommend requiring Melee Weapon Mastery (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Melee_Weapon_Mastery,PH2) or Ranged Weapon Mastery (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Ranged_Weapon_Mastery,PH2) and you gain proficiency with weapons of that damage type and range. If you have multiple Masteries, you'd of course gain proficiency for all, as appropriate.

Also, Greater Magic Weapon doesn't have any place in a martial class like that, especially without any previous caster training. If you want to implement a whetstone-like mechanic, feel free, but it's a bit ridiculous to suddenly gain a spell-like just for being a weapon junkie.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

jagadaishio
2009-07-20, 11:26 AM
Kung Fu Warrior

Prerequisites: Ki Strike (lawful), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), and Power Attack.

{table]Prerequisites|HD|Skill Points|BAB|Fort|Reflex|Will|Special
Ki Strike (lawful), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Power Attack|d12|4+Int|+1|+1|+1|+1|Way of the Warrior[/table]

Way of the Warrior: A Kung Fu Warrior gains proficiency in Padded, Leather, and Studded Leather armor. Wearing these armors no longer hinder the Monk's movement or prevent. The Kung Fu Warrior gains proficiency in Gauntlets and the Warrior's choice of one martial or exotic weapon; these weapons will be considered Monk Weapons for the purpose of delivering a flurry of blows. The Base Attack Bonus for all current and future levels of Monk change from Rogue progression to Fighter progression. The level of Kung Fu Warrior stacks with levels in Monk for the purposes of determining AC bonus and Unarmed Damage. A level in Kung Fu Warrior does not prevent a character from taking further levels in Monk. However, the Monk's Unarmored Speed Bonus decreases by 10 feet at each level. (For example, a Monk 19/KFW1 would have a speed bonus of 50).

Or prevent what? By 'current' does that mean that levels already gained in monk are retroactively changed? You should probably change the massive ability into a few abilities. Perhaps:

Armed in Life (ex): The one related to all of the proficiencies and their interaction with flurry of blows.
Martial Efficiency (ex): Retroactive BAB alteration.
Plodding Force (ex): Diminished speed but otherwise stacks with monk levels.

What are its class skills? You mention skill points, but not actual skills.


Used to Cthulu

You have seen sights that would drive most people mad. By now it's all old hat to you.

Prerequisite
Iron Will, 5 ranks Knowledge Religion, 5 Ranks Knowledge Planes, Frequently encountering incredibly powerful outsiders, deities, and/or aberrations.


{table=head]Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+0|+0|+2|Friend to fear, Meh, Horrific Empathy
[/table]

Friend To Fear
A person Used to Cthulu is immune to fear affects, magical and otherwise. Additionally when in the presence of a creature capable of generating a fear aura or having a frightful presence the Used to Cthulu receives a +2 Bab bonus to attack that creature, and +2 to all will saves to resist any affect caused by that creature.

Meh
A Used to Cthulu receives a +10 bonus to her will save to avoid being affected by divine auras or being affected by any magic that would make them confused.

Omnipotent Empathy
A Used to Cthulu can improve the attitude of supremely powerful deities, outsiders, and aberrations that are normally impossible to use Diplomacy checks on, even if they are so alien mortals can barely comprehend what they are. The Used to Cthulu rolls 1d20 and adds her character level and her Charisma modifier to determine the omnipotent empathy check result. Most beings capable of being affected are indifferent or unfriendly.

Even if successful beings this powerful are unlikely to befriend the Used to Cthulu, but may be convinced into doing a small one-time favor like plane shifting them elsewhere or answering a question. Most often the ability is used to simply not be immediately eliminated by being in the being's general vicinity.

You should include a resistance to Insanity effects under Meh. I would simplify Omnipotent Empathy to just a diplomacy check at a penalty relative to the level disparity between the Use of Cthulhu and the entity in question.

Skill points, class skills, hit die? You should note which abilities are ex, su, and sp, just because it occasionally matters. Aside from that, I like it. I may change the name to not be specifically Lovecraftian but rather thematically so, but it's still fine.

Telonius
2009-07-20, 11:30 AM
Whoops, missed some C&P there. Fixing...
Yes, it means levels are retroactively changed.
Good ideas on splitting it up.

Lysander
2009-07-20, 11:32 AM
You should include a resistance to Insanity effects under Meh. I would simplify Omnipotent Empathy to just a diplomacy check at a penalty relative to the level disparity between the Use of Cthulhu and the entity in question.

Skill points, class skills, hit die? You should note which abilities are ex, su, and sp, just because it occasionally matters. Aside from that, I like it. I may change the name to not be specifically Lovecraftian but rather thematically so, but it's still fine.

Excellent point. I've edited the Used to Cthulu to fill in the missing details about skills and hd. Meh also provides protection from insanity spells. I also give them Abyssal, Celestial, or Infernal as a bonus language.

Jane_Smith
2009-07-20, 11:49 AM
Level Adjustment Substitution Level/s?

Hit Dice: d6
Poor Base Attack: 1/2
Saves: Poor Fortitude, Poor Reflexes, Poor Willpower
Class Skills: None.
Skill Points: 2 + Int bonus. Unless you have a class level in another class or some way of gaining class skills, all skills must be purchased as cross-class skills

Just something ive been thinking about. Level adjustment is a horrible abdomination, ive always felt it should at least give you some hit dice/skills for level adjustment at the very least, so you can meet the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes around the same levels of other races (Considering even if your a level 1 human vampire rogue, you still need 8 -ranks- in hide/move silently to take levels in assassin, despite being ungodly stealthy as-is!).

Omegonthesane
2009-07-20, 12:30 PM
I rather take issue with Consummate Warrior's Absolute Weapon Proficiency, as that's worse than the 3.0 Exotic Weapon Master with even easier requirements to get in. I'd recommend if you want something like that, reduce the nonproficiency penalties to -2, to show familiarity with stuff or if you absolutely insist on having it, increase the requirements to get in, as that's way too low right now. I'd recommend requiring Melee Weapon Mastery (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Melee_Weapon_Mastery,PH2) or Ranged Weapon Mastery (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Ranged_Weapon_Mastery,PH2) and you gain proficiency with weapons of that damage type and range. If you have multiple Masteries, you'd of course gain proficiency for all, as appropriate.
Understood, but I'm not convinced that even Exotic proficiencies are worth burning one of very few feats for. I'll check the mastery feats, they would make a lot of sense to require for someone who actually has proficiency with other party members. Which is too funny an ability to take away.


Also, Greater Magic Weapon doesn't have any place in a martial class like that, especially without any previous caster training. If you want to implement a whetstone-like mechanic, feel free, but it's a bit ridiculous to suddenly gain a spell-like just for being a weapon junkie.
Flavour-wise, yes it is - but rules-wise, it's an excellent way of ensuring that no matter how inexperienced the DM, the Consummate Warrior always has a weapon worthy of his level.
I could instead say that all weapons held by a Consummate Warrior count as being under the effect of greater magic weapon to represent his being really skilful. This would actually be more powerful, but it would also fit the fluff & I'm already planning to rework or remove Absolute Weapons Proficiency.

Omegonthesane
2009-07-20, 12:51 PM
Well, it's been suggested many times, but...

1) It's easier for reference; you just have to look at the table, rather than checking which progression something has and then either remembering the number at that level or referencing a different table.

2) More importantly, we old-edition gamers likes us some tables. Removing BAB columns and replacing them with a single word would make THAC0 cry. :smallwink:

How about having actual fractional BaB on the table, and standing orders to round down after adding the results? That would at least sort out the BaB issue without getting rid of standard issue tables.

Saves, I'm not so sure about. You'd have to fundamentally change the "+2 for starting a new Good save" gig. With that in mind I'd make the Good save worth only 1/2 HD - again with fractional increases - and give a fundamental bonus of +2 to a save the first time you take a class that has that as a Good save. That would probably result in what was originally intended by Wizzards; whether that's a good thing or not is up to you.


Level Adjustment Substitution Level/s?

Hit Dice: d6
Poor Base Attack: 1/2
Saves: Poor Fortitude, Poor Reflexes, Poor Willpower
Class Skills: None.
Skill Points: 2 + Int bonus. Unless you have a class level in another class or some way of gaining class skills, all skills must be purchased as cross-class skills

Just something ive been thinking about. Level adjustment is a horrible abdomination, ive always felt it should at least give you some hit dice/skills for level adjustment at the very least, so you can meet the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes around the same levels of other races (Considering even if your a level 1 human vampire rogue, you still need 8 -ranks- in hide/move silently to take levels in assassin, despite being ungodly stealthy as-is!).
Or you could throw away Level Adjustment outright. Frank & K did a detailed analysis of how to better balance monster races, which I won't repeat here because it's available on the gleemax forums (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=681572). Just Ctrl+F to "Powerful Races".

Shameless plug of all Frank & K's stuff. (http://middendorfproject.googlepages.com/)

Lysander
2009-07-20, 12:53 PM
Couldn't resist:


Steven Seagall

Prerequisite:
Monk 5 levels, Stunning Fist, successfully repelling a large crowd of invaders from a boat

Hit Die: d10

Skill Points:
2 + Int Modifier

Class Skills:
Escape Artist, Intimidate, Profession (Chef), Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Swim

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
All monk equipment

{table="head"]Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+2|0|0|C@#kpuncher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEsbY1-9UYg), Neckbreaker, Warrior's Ponytail
[/table]

C@#kpuncher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEsbY1-9UYg)
A Steven Seagall level counts as a Monk level for determining Stunning Fists per day. Whenever Steven Seagall successfully uses a stunning fist on a humanoid male they can make it an extremely painful blow. The person is rendered mute for a number of rounds equal to Steven Seagall's strength bonus.

Neckbreaker
Whenever a Steven Seagall wins a grapple by 5 or more against a person with up to half their HD, that person can be instantly killed unless they survive a DC20 fortitude save. This only works against living creatures with necks.

Warrior's Ponytail
If Steven Seagall has a ponytail he receives +2 to all intimidate checks, and +4 to intimidate checks against people trespassing on a ship.

Omegonthesane
2009-07-20, 01:21 PM
Consummate Warrior, Redux:

Consummate Warrior
"You thought YOU were good with weapons?"
{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+1|+1|+0|Absolute Weapon Proficiency, Always Ready, Greater Magic Weapon[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Requirements: Melee Weapon Mastery OR Ranged Weapon Mastery, proficient with all martial weapons

Class Skills
The consummate warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

Absolute Weapon Proficiency: A Consummate Warrior with the Melee Weapon Mastery feat is proficient with all exotic melee weapons and all non-weapons used as melee weapons. A Consummate Warrior with the Ranged Weapon Mastery feat is proficient with all exotic ranged weapons, all thrown non-weapons, and all thrown party members. A Consummate Warrior with both feats gets both sets of benefits.
Always Ready (Ex): A consummate warrior never takes any penalties for sleeping in medium or heavy armour.
Hardcore (Ex): A Consummate Warrior does not need magicians to provide him with weapons appropriate to his level. Weapons in the Consummate Warrior's possession gain an enhancement bonus equal to his Base Attack Bonus divided by four, rounding up, to a maximum of +5. This does not stack with other enhancement bonuses and is lost if the weapon leaves his possession. This applies to melee weapons if he has the Melee Weapon Mastery feat, and to ranged weapons if he has the Ranged Weapon Mastery feat, and to both if he has both.

jagadaishio
2009-07-20, 02:17 PM
Evolved Specimen
"I am better than you, and I can prove it."

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1/2|+0|+0|+0|Adjusted Level[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Requirements: LA +2 or higher, three or more hit dice

Class Skills
The Evolved Specimen has no class skills. All skills must be purchased cross-class.

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

Adjusted Level (Ex): An Evolved Specimen has her level adjustment reduced by an amount equal to one-half her level adjustment, rounded down. So, for example, an Evolved Specimen with a level adjustment of +2 or +3 would have it reduced by one, and an Evolved Specimen with a level adjustment of +4 or +5 would have it reduced by two.

The reduction in the Evolved Specimen's effective level awards her bonus experience points as per a character of her level.

Mongoose87
2009-07-20, 02:26 PM
Evolved Specimen
"I am better than you, and I can prove it."

{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1/2|+0|+0|+0|Adjusted Level[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Requirements: LA +2 or higher, three or more hit dice

Class Skills
The Evolved Specimen has no class skills. All skills must be purchased cross-class.

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

Adjusted Level (Ex): An Evolved Specimen has her level adjustment reduced by an amount equal to one-half her level adjustment, rounded down. So, for example, an Evolved Specimen with a level adjustment of +2 or +3 would have it reduced by one, and an Evolved Specimen with a level adjustment of +4 or +5 would have it reduced by two.

The reduction in the Evolved Specimen's effective level awards her bonus experience points as per a character of her level.

This appears to be absurdly powerful.

jagadaishio
2009-07-20, 03:13 PM
This appears to be absurdly powerful.

Not when a level adjustment is widely considered so crippling that most people refuse to ever play any race or use any template that has a level adjustment. When you think about the experience it takes to take a level of this (taking into account the fact that the higher the subject's level adjustment was to begin with, the more experience that took) I don't think that it's really that bad relative to LA buy-off. It doesn't really let a character start the game at a higher level, it just lets them start gaining experience at a reasonable rate to their power level ones they start getting higher.

If you think that I should, though, I'll change the requirements to state that they need at least twice as many hit dice as their level adjustment. That should delay it enough to make it more balanced.

Omegonthesane
2009-07-20, 03:37 PM
This appears to be absurdly powerful.

Reducing level adjustment is not absurdly powerful. If you want to know what a crapshoot LA is, stat up and roll a duel between a PC Frost Giant Wizard with LA and an NPC Frost Giant Wizard of the same CR, and see who wins.

Flickerdart
2009-07-20, 03:46 PM
A Consummate Warrior with the Ranged Weapon Mastery feat is proficient with all exotic ranged weapons, all thrown non-weapons, and all thrown party members.
This will not end well.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-20, 03:52 PM
This will not end well.

I think you added an extra "not" in there, Flickerdart. :smallbiggrin:

Omegonthesane
2009-07-20, 04:39 PM
This will not end well.

It's mostly a joke ability - and a spelling out of the full ramifications of "proficient with all thrown non-weapons".
And count yourself lucky - I originally considered making Consummate Warriors with MWM proficient with wielded party members in melee.

Flickerdart
2009-07-20, 05:13 PM
I think you added an extra "not" in there, Flickerdart. :smallbiggrin:
I was talking about the enemy. Hulking Hurler Consummate Warrior + Ubercharger Warforged = ICBMs in the making.

TSED
2009-07-20, 05:29 PM
Meh, the party member wouldn't do much damage because he doesn't weigh very much.

Flickerdart
2009-07-20, 05:32 PM
Meh, the party member wouldn't do much damage because he doesn't weigh very much.
Nah, he gets weapon damage in, full attack because of Pounce, benefits from Leap Attack and such. If he's sitting on a rock the Hurler throws, he can get the x2 damage from a Lance for a mounted charge.

JoshuaZ
2009-07-20, 05:34 PM
Here's another one:

Generalist Mage
"Any form of magic I can do, I can do well"
{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+0|+0|+0|+1|Arcane Power[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Requirements: Caster level at least 1 in a class and caster level at least 5 in another class.
Class Skills Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

Arcane Power: You get a +4 bonus to caster level for all classes (this applies also to classes which have caster levels but do not cast spells such as the Warlock) . This bonus does not give you additional spells known, spell slots, spells per a day or any similar benefit. It only increases effective caster level. This bonus cannot increase your effective caster level for any class beyond your hit die.

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-20, 06:03 PM
I do, actually, for the sake of balance. These classes last only 1 level...they should function more like a standard progression in that manner, not like a new class. Otherwise several of these such things could send a character's saves into the stratosphere. Which isn't a good thing.

So, if you're going to use my work outside of my posts, please use it as I posted it, will you? What you do in your own games is fine, but duplications of my work should be as I intended it.

Thanks.
Alright, I'll change it.

Also, great prestige classes. Will add soon.

jagadaishio
2009-07-20, 10:18 PM
Here's another one:

Generalist Mage
"Any form of magic I can do, I can do well"
{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+0|+0|+0|+1|Arcane Power[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Requirements: Caster level at least 1 in a class and caster level at least 5 in another class.
Class Skills Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

Arcane Power: You get a +4 bonus to caster level for all classes (this applies also to classes which have caster levels but do not cast spells such as the Warlock) . This bonus does not give you additional spells known, spell slots, spells per a day or any similar benefit. It only increases effective caster level. This bonus cannot increase your effective caster level for any class beyond your hit die.

Nice. Makes being a Mystic Theurge almost worth it.

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-21, 06:34 AM
Nice. Makes being a Mystic Theurge almost worth it.

"Almost?" Mystic theurges I've played, while not overpowered, have been not uber-weak either. This would make them worth it.

Omegonthesane
2009-07-21, 06:49 AM
"Almost?" Mystic theurges I've played, while not overpowered, have been not uber-weak either. This would make them worth it.
Only if you're banning high-level casters anyway. Which is a fair call I guess, but MT is fundamentally never going to really catch up with Wizard or Cleric without a few bonuses thrown in.

JoshuaZ
2009-07-21, 10:55 AM
Two more:

Weapons Master
"Some people are very good with a single weapon. Take away that weapon and they cry like a baby. Me? I'm good with all of them."
{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+1|+1|+1|+0|General Weapon Focus[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
Requirements:
BAB +5
Proficiency in all simple and martial weapons. Weapon Focus in a simple weapon and Weapon Focus in a martial weapon.

The Weapons Master class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str).

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

General Weapon Focus You are treated as having Weapon Focus in every simple and martial weapon as well as in any exotic weapon that you have proficiency in. These feats cannot be swapped out or retrained. If you ever lose the actual copies of Weapon Focus you need to qualify for this class, you lose the benefits of this class until you regain them.

Comment: Although this might seem unbalanced since you get an indefinite number feats it is actually balanced since it is almost impossible to use the feats simultaneously. Weapon Focus is also one of the weaker feats out there.

Necromantic Dabbler
"So Kazerabet says that Necromancy is an art that requires the artist's constant devotion? I really don't have time for that. "
{table=head]BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
+0|+1|+0|+1|Efficient Animation, Necromantic Prowess[/table]
Alignment: Any but usually non-good
Hit Die: d10
Requirements:
Able to cast a third level necromancy spell.

The Necromantic Dabbler’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are
Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points
2 + Int modifier

Efficient Animation You may treat Animate Dead as a third level spell on any class you can cast 3rd level spells in. If a class uses spells known, it automatically gets this as a bonus spell known. If a class prepares spells, you may prepare this spell without consulting a spellbook or similar object (just as if you had Spell Mastery).

Necromantic Prowess You are treated as being a specialist necromancer for purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes which have being a specialist necromancer as a prerequisite. You also gain a +1 bonus to caster level for all necromancy spells.


Edit:Cleaned up Weapons Master and made Necromantic Prowess more useful.

jagadaishio
2009-07-21, 11:17 AM
Only if you're banning high-level casters anyway. Which is a fair call I guess, but MT is fundamentally never going to really catch up with Wizard or Cleric without a few bonuses thrown in.

You know what it would be fantastic for, though? Wild mage.

Cieyrin
2009-07-21, 11:37 AM
@JoshuaZ: Your Weapon Master table mentions a Flawless ability but you never define it. As for General Weapon Focus, it's not so bad, as +1 to hit with all your proficient weapons is akin to the Pathfinder Fighter's Weapon Training.

@Omegonthesane: I still think you should only be getting proficiency with weapons of the damage type you chose for your Weapon Mastery, as I could see some guy really good with swords cross-training with axes, as they're both good at hewing bits out of people. I don't see the same guy being all that great with wimpy elven thin and lightblades, since that requires a different style and application. I'd also make party member proficiency an extension of Weapon Mastery(Bludgeoning) (unless they're running about in spiked armor, then i may let Weapon Mastery(Piercing) slide...).

As for Hardcore, it's definitely better than it was, though I'd possibly make it an extraordinary ability, to show that you know how to keep your weapons sharpened to be able cut between molecules or properly weighted to direct all the force of the weapon into the striking surface, so no momentum is lost uselessly.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Cieyrin
2009-07-21, 11:38 AM
You know what it would be fantastic for, though? Wild mage.

Bah, that's what Practiced Spellcaster (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Practiced_Spellcaster,CAr) is for. =p

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-21, 01:02 PM
Bah, that's what Practiced Spellcaster (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Practiced_Spellcaster,CAr) is for. =p

Though this ability applies to all classes, so if you're a wild mage/something else (or wild mage//something else) it's better. And in general being able to get the same ability from either a level or a feat is good for builds, since some lack levels and have plenty of feats or vice versa.

Omegonthesane
2009-07-21, 04:07 PM
@JoshuaZ: Your Weapon Master table mentions a Flawless ability but you never define it. As for General Weapon Focus, it's not so bad, as +1 to hit with all your proficient weapons is akin to the Pathfinder Fighter's Weapon Training.

@Omegonthesane: I still think you should only be getting proficiency with weapons of the damage type you chose for your Weapon Mastery, as I could see some guy really good with swords cross-training with axes, as they're both good at hewing bits out of people. I don't see the same guy being all that great with wimpy elven thin and lightblades, since that requires a different style and application. I'd also make party member proficiency an extension of Weapon Mastery(Bludgeoning) (unless they're running about in spiked armor, then i may let Weapon Mastery(Piercing) slide...).

As for Hardcore, it's definitely better than it was, though I'd possibly make it an extraordinary ability, to show that you know how to keep your weapons sharpened to be able cut between molecules or properly weighted to direct all the force of the weapon into the striking surface, so no momentum is lost uselessly.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Well, of course the Consummate Warrior can't cross-train with everything - the bonuses from his Weapon Mastery feat chain still only applies to his favourite weapon. In the probably misquoted words of Vaarsuvius, there is a vast gulf between being proficient with a weapon and being good with a weapon, but by the time you can qualify for Consummate Warrior you should just be that awesome.

And hey - it's a reason to stick with Fighter for longer than is usually sensible. That has to count for something.

I originally meant for Hardcore to be Extraordinary, just forgot that it needs mentioning - it already wasn't spell-like or supernatural. I'll go fix that now.

As for thrown party member proficiency, I could remove those exact words outright withotu actually affecting the class. I was just taking "proficient with all nonweapons" to its logical conclusion.

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-22, 06:26 AM
Only if you're banning high-level casters anyway. Which is a fair call I guess, but MT is fundamentally never going to really catch up with Wizard or Cleric without a few bonuses thrown in.

Three levels makes that much difference?

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-22, 07:41 AM
Three levels makes that much difference?

A wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 1 has 2nd level spells like blur, scorching ray, and Tasha's hideous laughter. A wizard 7 has 4th level spells like phantasmal killer, Evard's black tentacles, and dimension door, and still has the 2nd-level spells like blur, scorching ray, and Tasha's hideous laughter. The 2nd level spells don't quite measure up to the 4th levels.

Omegonthesane
2009-07-22, 08:26 AM
A wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 1 has 2nd level spells like blur, scorching ray, and Tasha's hideous laughter. A wizard 7 has 4th level spells like phantasmal killer, Evard's black tentacles, and dimension door, and still has the 2nd-level spells like blur, scorching ray, and Tasha's hideous laughter. The 2nd level spells don't quite measure up to the 4th levels.

Exponential Progression: Wizards of the Coast wish D&D wasn't full of it. :smallbiggrin:

jagadaishio
2009-07-22, 09:14 AM
Exponential Progression: Wizards of the Coast wish D&D wasn't full of it. :smallbiggrin:

Which is why they made 4e, creating a whole new can of complaints.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-22, 09:34 AM
Exponential Progression: Wizards of the Coast wish D&D wasn't full of it. :smallbiggrin:

D&D may be full of it, but then again, WotC is full of it too. :smallbiggrin:

Cieyrin
2009-07-22, 10:12 AM
Though this ability applies to all classes, so if you're a wild mage/something else (or wild mage//something else) it's better. And in general being able to get the same ability from either a level or a feat is good for builds, since some lack levels and have plenty of feats or vice versa.

The problem here is that Wild Mage doesn't have a separate casting progression, it enhances existing ones, so Generalist Mage wouldn't help him, even if he could qualify for it, which he can't if he's not already theurging it up, which would be weird, though strangely interesting. An Ultimate Magus/Wild Mage gestalt would be all sorts of insane. :smallbiggrin:

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-22, 10:53 AM
The problem here is that Wild Mage doesn't have a separate casting progression, it enhances existing ones, so Generalist Mage wouldn't help him, even if he could qualify for it, which he can't if he's not already theurging it up, which would be weird, though strangely interesting. An Ultimate Magus/Wild Mage gestalt would be all sorts of insane. :smallbiggrin:

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

I was indeed thinking of the theurge classes (with the "something else" being "something besides the arcane class that got you there"). There's no reason a god of chaos wouldn't want wizard/wild mage/cleric/mystic theurges, is there? If you have to be insane to even attempt such a thing, well...it's a wild mage for a reason. :smallwink:

Omegonthesane
2009-07-22, 11:41 AM
I was indeed thinking of the theurge classes (with the "something else" being "something besides the arcane class that got you there"). There's no reason a god of chaos wouldn't want wizard/wild mage/cleric/mystic theurges, is there? If you have to be insane to even attempt such a thing, well...it's a wild mage for a reason. :smallwink:

There is, actually. He'd want wizard/wild mage/cleric/mage priests (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6553552#post6553552) instead. </shameless plug>

JoshuaZ
2009-07-22, 04:29 PM
@JoshuaZ: Your Weapon Master table mentions a Flawless ability but you never define it. As for General Weapon Focus, it's not so bad, as +1 to hit with all your proficient weapons is akin to the Pathfinder Fighter's Weapon Training.


Flawless was in an earlier draft but I removed it and forgot to remove it from the table. Fixed now.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-22, 07:53 PM
There is, actually. He'd want wizard/wild mage/cleric/mage priests (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6553552#post6553552) instead. </shameless plug>

You're forgetting: he's insane. "Competence" is a four-letter word to him (and not just metaphorically). You don't want an endorsement from a crazy person worshiping an even crazier god, trust me. :smallwink: