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Xvos
2005-08-20, 12:22 PM
Now I'm sure this has been covered before and if anyone could point me to an official half drow, other than the one in races of Faerun which isn't very good, that would be brilliant, but otherwise would it be possible for a critique of this and perhaps an adjudication on whether LA +1 is appropriate.

Half-Drow Traits (Ex): Half-Drow possess the following racial traits.

Size: Medium size.
Speed: A half-drow s base land speed is 30 feet.

Spell-Like Abilities: Half-Drow can use the following spell-like abilities once per day: dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire. Caster level equals the Half-drows class levels.

Half-Drow Resistances: Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities.

Darkvision: Darkvision out to 120 feet.

Drow Senses: +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A half-drow does not have the drow s ability to notice secret doors simply by passing near them.

Drow Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-drow is considered a drow. Half-drow, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect drow as their drow ancestors are, and they can use magic items that are only usable by drow.

Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds half-drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.

Automatic Languages: Automatic Languages: Drow, Common, Undercommon.
Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).

Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-drow takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing, her highest-level class does not count.

Level Adjustment +1

Esclados
2005-08-20, 12:49 PM
Officially (according to the FRCS), they're just half-elves with 60 foot darkvision instead of low-light. Yeah. That's right. Half-drow get the bonus to diplomacy. :P

I would also say that your version doesn't even need an LA +1. The spell-like abilities aren't overpowering, and light blindness is a pretty big drawback. If anything, they might be underpowered for LA 0.

Nikolai_II
2005-08-20, 12:58 PM
I'd suggest having permanent CL1 on the spell-likes (just like gnomes), giving them 60' darkvision like everything in the world that isn't drow and giving them light sensitivity instead of blindness (just like orcs).

I'd consider giving them a set favored class as a final 'balancing' measure to get them to be LA+0.

Xvos
2005-08-20, 01:49 PM
OK taking into account your suggestions, which of these is better, or should I just slap an LA +0 on the first design?

Half-Drow Traits (Ex): Half-Drow possess the following racial traits.

Size: Medium size.
Speed: A half-drow s base land speed is 30 feet.

Spell-Like Abilities: Half-Drow can use the following spell-like abilities once per day: dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire. Caster level equals the Half-drows class levels.

Half-Drow Resistances: Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities.

Darkvision: Darkvision out to 90 feet. *

Drow Senses: +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A half-drow does not have the drow s ability to notice secret doors simply by passing near them.

Spell Resistance: 5+ Class Level

Drow Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-drow is considered a drow. Half-drow, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect drow as their drow ancestors are, and they can use magic items that are only usable by drow.

Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds half-drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.

Automatic Languages: Automatic Languages: Drow, Common, Undercommon. *
Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).

Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-drow takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing, her highest-level class does not count.

Level Adjustment +1

OR

Half-Drow Traits (Ex): Half-Drow possess the following racial traits.

Size: Medium size.
Speed: A half-drow s base land speed is 30 feet.

Spell-Like Abilities: Half-Drow can use the following spell-like abilities once per day: dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire. Caster level 1.

Half-Drow Resistances: Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities.

Darkvision: Darkvision out to 60 feet. *

Drow Senses: +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A half-drow does not have the drow s ability to notice secret doors simply by passing near them.

Drow Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-drow is considered a drow. Half-drow, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect drow as their drow ancestors are, and they can use magic items that are only usable by drow.

Light Sensitivity: (need to find exact wording, no time right now)

Automatic Languages: Automatic Languages: Drow, Common, Undercommon. *
Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).

Favored Class: Rogue. When determining whether a multiclass half-drow takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing, her rogue class does not count.

Level Adjustment +0

Death_McMuffin
2005-08-20, 07:43 PM
I think this is covered in the FR Campaign Setting.

Xvos
2005-08-20, 07:51 PM
Officially (according to the FRCS), they're just half-elves with 60 foot darkvision instead of low-light. *Yeah. *That's right. *Half-drow get the bonus to diplomacy. *:P


I got that from Esclados comment, I also got that it wasn't a very satisfactory representation.

waspsmakejam
2005-08-22, 03:25 PM
There's half-drow in "Races of Faeurun".

idksocrates
2005-08-22, 05:41 PM
I prefer the revised la +1 version. Half races tend to have half of the parents abilities. Half-elves have +0 as both their parents are +0. A half between a Human and a Drow should have +1.

jdrich
2005-08-22, 08:31 PM
This topic has already been brought up, less than three days ago:

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1124666351

Please take the time to read through the forum before making a superfluous thread.

Esclados
2005-08-23, 03:00 AM
This topic has already been brought up, less than three days ago:

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1124666351

Please take the time to read through the forum before making a superfluous thread.


A. This thread predates that one.

B. The subjects are actually different, this thread is about half-drow-half-humans, while the other poster was trying to make half-moon (high)-half-drow elves.

Gamebird
2005-08-23, 12:57 PM
I got that from Esclados comment, I also got that it wasn't a very satisfactory representation.

Do you mean it doesn't have all the special abilities and tweaks that you think it should have?

Why do you believe it should have a lot of special powers? Just make them funny-looking half elves and be done with it. If it is a role playing issue, then address it by ROLE PLAY (which means no munchkin-y extra powers and weird disadvantages). It is a desire for a more powerful than normal character, then admit that and make it clear.

Xvos
2005-08-23, 02:14 PM
Do you mean it doesn't have all the special abilities and tweaks that you think it should have?

Why do you believe it should have a lot of special powers? *Just make them funny-looking half elves and be done with it. *If it is a role playing issue, then address it by ROLE PLAY (which means no munchkin-y extra powers and weird disadvantages). *It is a desire for a more powerful than normal character, then admit that and make it clear.

If you look at the builds I have proposed they are not going to give you a character more powerful than normal, or if they are, then they are not how I wish them to work and they need tweaking which is why they are posted here.

Why should half drow be different to other half elves for reasons other than game breaking extra power, well I ask you this, why should Drow be different ot high elves, apart from them being funny looking?

The asnwer it seems to me is because they are two different things, the character I am looking at using this with is actually a remake of a character I have been playing since second edition, he has been a funny looking lots of things for rules purposes, but I think its about time he actually had a proper template of his own.

As to why I think a half elf with darkvision and funny colouration is inappropriate there are several reasons as follows:

1) Half-Elves get a bonus to diplomacy and gather information, I think this is not a good fit for a half drow who is likely to share the evil tendencies of his forebears or at least be shunned for his appearence if he does not, if anyhting at all he should recieve a penalty on these skills, but I am not sure that is appropriate either (as drow do not) so I simply removed it from the build altogether.

2) Drow are not High Elves and are in fact highly divergent in the fact that they have spell like abilities, spell resistance and several other qualities unique to them, they are not funny looking High Elves so why should Half-Drow be funny looking Half-Elves? Drow powers I think would manifest in a Half-Drow and as such I see it as reasonable to include these abilities to represent one.

3) I don't think an alteration in the method in which the character (or any half drow character) is role played is enough of a variation on the way in which he is made up, otherwise if simply changing style of roleplay was enough to differentiate between races, why have all the options and not just have human stats and we just say they're different things and role play them that way?

If you look at the special powers I have actually included they are remarkably similar to those of the half elf anyway the only changes (in the original version, not the two revised ones) are as follows:

Advantages:
Spell Like Abilities

Bonus on Will saves versus Spells instead of just Enchantments

Darkvision

Disadvantages
No bonus to Diplomacy and Gather Information

No Low Light Vision

Light Blindness

Double sided
Drow Blood: Favoured Enemy(Drow) is no applicable, as are other effects that target drow, drow equipment is useable.

For that I charged myself a +1 LA that is not overpowered, in fact it is probably underpowered and it is certainly far from alot of special powers, a bonus on will saves taht Half-Elves get a weaker version of anyway, darkvision and 3 level 0 spell-like abilities are not that fantastic, but they are flavourful and make the race unique and divergent from the half elf. As I don't believe Darkvision alone is enough of a change, nor do I believe that keeping inappropriate skill bonuses is good for the game.

As regards to whether its a role play issue, clearly it isn't as a mechanically differnt race has no effect on roleplay, it is a game mechanics issue just like the difference between any races, he will still be roleplayed the same as he always has been as nothing about his character has changed, simply some of the game abilities with some gained and some lost allowing a more thorough in game realisation of a character concept.

I would ask that you do not shout about ROLE PLAY when we are discussing a mechanics issue for realising a concept and that you carefully assess the balance of a proposed mechanic before labelling it as Munchkiny and overpowered, if that is your belief of this particular design then please offer your advice on how to alter it to make it more balanced and point out the percieved areas of weakness in the mechanic rather than simply denegrating both my role playing and game design abilities without having seen the former and without giving reasons for your distaste of the latter.

Thankyou.