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Jibar
2005-08-05, 02:02 PM
This new PrC is for my campaign, and it focuses on being a martial artist kinda charatcer. But I need some help balancing it. Can anyone help?

Kingroshi Monk
Many Monks take on the role of a martial artist. Using their bodies as lethal weapons, they inspire fear into the hearts of enemies, and in some cases friends alike. The Kingroshi style allows Monks to do just that, and many rogues and fighters have been known to practice the art. The Kingroshi style allows anyone to turn their body into a dangerous weapon. it allows them to not only stikre faster and harder, but allows them to run faster and generally be more acrobatic. A Kingroshi monk can adapt to almost any situation, but they must spend long years away from civilisation, and so many are not fit for urban encounters.
Rquirements
Base attack bonus 5
Feats Endurance Improved unarmed strike
Hit die: d12
Class skills
The following are class skills for the Kingroshi Monk
Balance (Dex)
Climb (Str)
Concentration (Con)
Move silently (Dex)
Jump (Str)
Tumble (Dex)
Skill points at each additional level: 6+int modifier

Level Base attck bonus Fort save Ref save Will save Special abilities
1st +0 +2 +2 +0 Unarmed perfection, Unarmoured Bonus+1
2nd +1 +2 +2 +0 Deadly body
3rd +1 +2 +2 +0 Athletic Bonus, Unarmoured bonus+2
4th +2 +2 +2 +0 Counter atttack
5th +2 +2 +2 +0 Whirlwind attack, Unarmoured bonus+3
6th +3 +3 +3 +0 Blink of eye 50ft 1/day
7th +3 +3 +3 +0 Unarmoured bonus+4
8th +4 +4 +4 +1 Legendary jump 50ft 1/day
9th +5 +4 +4 +2 Unarmoured bonus+5
10th +6 +4 +4 +2 Improved Whirlwind attack, Unarmoured bonus +6, Blink of Eye and Legendary Jump 80ft 2/day

Weapon and Armour profeciency
A Kingroshi Monk gains profiencicy with the bo staff

Unarmed perfection
At 1st level the Kingroshi monk is proficient with using his body as a weapon. And so, he can use his dex and str bonus when decided the outcome of a melee attack.


Unarmoured Bonus
A Kingroshi Monk feels burdened by Armour, and so if he fights unarmoured he gains bonuses thanks to his freedom. It begins at +1 and increases as specified by the table.

Deadly Body
At 2nd level, the Kingroshi monk gains stronger knowledge of how to use his body as a weapon. Thus he gains a bonus 1d6 to his unarmed attack, and +1 to damage for every 3 points above 10 in Strength.

Athletic Bonus
At 3rd level the Kingroshi Monk can use his dexterity bonus for his class skills if it is better


Counter attack
If an unarmed attack is made against the Kingroshi Monk, he can make a dex check of opponents challenge rateing-Monks Dex Bonus to block the blow, taking no damage, and deal 1d4 damage in return. He can also make a grapple instead of dealing damage.

Whirlwind Attck
At 5th level the monk is fast and strong enough to launch a whirlwind attack. He deals 1d10 blows with a -6 to hit on each attack. The blows deals 1d6 damage each.
Blink of Eye
At 6th level the Monk is fast enough to move 50ft in the blink of an eye once per day. It is considered a free action during combat, and any class skill check done during the blink of eye movement increase gets a +2 to it. The 50ft is an overall distance, it can be split up during the day

Legendary Jump
At 8th level the Kingroshi monk can perform extrodinairy feats of athletic prowess. Like the Blink of Eye, he can jump 50ft into the air as a free action. He does not need a jump check to do this, and it can be used to replace a jump check if the Monk wants to. it is a free action, and can be used 1/day. Any attack made on a land opponent while using Legendary jump takes a -2 to hit, however against an airborn opponent it gains a +4 to hit.


Improved Whirlwind Strike
The kingroshi monk perfects his Whirlwind attack by dealing 1d20 attacks with a minus 4 to hit on each attack. The damage stays the same however.

Hzurr
2005-08-05, 02:32 PM
* * * * * *Kingroshi Monk * * *
* * * * * *Many Monks take on the role of a martial artist. Using their bodies as lethal weapons, they inspire fear into the hearts of enemies, and in some cases friends alike. The Kingroshi style allows Monks to do just that, and many rogues and fighters have been known to practice the art. The Kingroshi style allows anyone to turn their body into a dangerous weapon. it allows them to not only stikre faster and harder, but allows them to run faster and generally be more acrobatic. A Kingroshi monk can adapt to almost any situation, but they must spend long years away from civilisation, and so many are not fit for urban encounters. * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Rquirements * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Base attack bonus * * *5 * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Feats * * *Endurance * * *Improved unarmed strike * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Hit die: * * *d12 * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Class skills * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *The following are class skills for the Kingroshi Monk * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Balance * * *(Dex) * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Climb * * *(Str) * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Concentration * * * * * *(Con) * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Move silently * * * * * *(Dex) * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Jump * * *(Str) * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Tumble * * *(Dex) * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Skill points at each additional level: * * * * * *6+int modifier * * * * * * * * *


d12 HD, and 6+int skill points? That's a lot, and kindof awkward, especially when you only give the class 6 skills. I'd take it down to 2+ or 4+ for skill points, and give him more options (see the monk list)



* * * * * *Level * * *Base attck bonus * * *Fort save * * *Ref save * * *Will save * * *Special abilities
* * * * * *1st * * *+0 * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+0 * * *Unarmed perfection, Unarmoured Bonus+1
* * * * * *2nd * * *+1 * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+0 * * *Deadly body
* * * * * *3rd * * *+1 * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+0 * * *Athletic Bonus, Unarmoured bonus+2
* * * * * *4th * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+0 * * *Counter atttack
* * * * * *5th * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+0 * * *Whirlwind attack, Unarmoured bonus+3
* * * * * *6th * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+0 * * *Blink of eye 50ft 1/day
* * * * * *7th * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+0 * * *Unarmoured bonus+4
* * * * * *8th * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+1 * * *Legendary jump 50ft 1/day
* * * * * *9th * * *+5 * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+2 * * *Unarmoured bonus+5
* * * * * *10th * * *+6 * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+2 * * *Improved Whirlwind attack, Unarmoured bonus +6, Blink of Eye and Legendary Jump 80ft 2/day


This BAB progression makes no sense. BAB should either be full (like fighter or ranger), 3/4 (like Monk or Cleric) or half (like wizard or sorcerer). What you have here is simply...odd.


* * * * * * * *
* * * * * *Unarmed perfection * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *At 1st level the Kingroshi monk is proficient with using his body as a weapon. And so, he can use his dex and str bonus when decided the outcome of a melee attack. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Reword this to getting Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. It's the same thing, it just helps with consistancy * * * * * * * * * * * *



* * * * * *Unarmoured Bonus * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *A Kingroshi Monk feels burdened by Armour, and so if he fights unarmoured he gains bonuses thanks to his freedom. It begins at +1 and increases as specified by the table. *

Hmm...all the way up to +6? Eh, maybe. Does this ability stack with the unarmored bonus that Monks/Ninjas get? Very confusing. * * * * * *
* * * * * *


* * * * * *Deadly Body * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *At 2nd level, the Kingroshi monk gains stronger knowledge of how to use his body as a weapon. Thus he gains a bonus 1d6 to his unarmed attack, and +1 to damage for every 3 points above 10 in Strength.
* * * * * * * * *
Oddly worded. I'd either change it to 1d8 damage on an unarmed attack, or (if the character has Monk levels), have the PrC levels stack with monk levels for the purpose of determining unarmed attack power. Also, the +1 to damage doesn't make sense. Is this in addition to the normal Str modifier?



* * * * * *Athletic Bonus * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *At 3rd level the Kingroshi Monk can use his dexterity bonus for his class skills if it is better *

I'd advise rewording it so that you can use your dex modifier to replace any strength-based skill. ("I use my dex for my knowledge:local check!") * * * * * * * *
* * *


* * * * * *Counter attack * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *If an unarmed attack is made against the Kingroshi Monk, he can make a dex check of opponents challenge rateing-Monks Dex Bonus to block the blow, taking no damage, and deal 1d4 damage in return. He can also make a grapple instead of dealing damage.

Oddly worded. I'd advise simply giving the monk the "Opportunist" ability (see the description in the PhB. It's a rogue special ability).



* * * * * *Whirlwind Attck * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *At 5th level the monk is fast and strong enough to launch a whirlwind attack. He deals 1d10 blows with a -6 to hit on each attack. The blows deals 1d6 damage each. *

Rather than telling what kind of damage/to hit the monk will have, why don't you just give him the feat "Whirlwind attack?" *


* * * * * * *
* * * * * *Blink of Eye * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *At 6th level the Monk is fast enough to move 50ft in the blink of an eye once per day. It is considered a free action during combat, and any class skill check done during the blink of eye movement increase gets a +2 to it. The 50ft is an overall distance, it can be split up during the day * * * * * * * * *

Any skill gets a +2? Why? And I'm having trouble seeing the basis for this ability



* * * * * *Legendary Jump * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *At 8th level the Kingroshi monk can perform extrodinairy feats of athletic prowess. Like the Blink of Eye, he can jump 50ft into the air as a free action. He does not need a jump check to do this, and it can be used to replace a jump check if the Monk wants to. it is a free action, and can be used 1/day. Any attack made on a land opponent while using Legendary jump takes a -2 to hit, however against an airborn opponent it gains a +4 to hit. * * * * * * * * *

Reword this into the monk having the ability to use jump (as described by the spell) once per day.



* * * * * *Improved Whirlwind Strike * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *The kingroshi monk perfects his Whirlwind attack by dealing 1d20 attacks with a minus 4 to hit on each attack. The damage stays the same however. * * * * * * * * *

Delete this ability. It should be normal Whirlwind attack. (Actually, delete the earlier ability, and give the monk normal whirlwind attack at this level. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *





The biggest problem I'm seeing is that what you have is inconsistant with the SRD. Try and streamline things a bit more to make it easier to read.

Also, this class is very confusing. Is it a Monk PrC? Can Monks multiclass into it freely, and if so, how does it affect their monk abilities? (Unarmed damage, bonus to AC, etc.)

Aside from that, I get the feeling it's too powerful, but I'll need to wait til you revise it into more of a manageable version before I can give a solid critique.

cgoat
2005-08-05, 02:42 PM
make it a d8 for hp

gets 6+int for skill points but only has 6 class skills... needs more class skills

make levels stack for purposes of unarmed damage ac bonus and movement.

Get rid of unarmored bonus... use above instead

make blink of eye similar to abundant step (dim door) standard action or possible move equivilent

I wouldn't stack str and dex damage... give them the option of one or the other.

Athletic bonus... bah... he gets plenty of skills not needed or change dex instead of str not dex for everything

Counter attack too confusing... + DC too low... 10+CR should also count as AoO

Deadly body could be ki like attack... add 1d6 of choosen energy damage on unarmed attacks (fire frost etc) make standard action to activate and only last 1 minute... usuable... 1/day at 2nd 2/day 4th 3/day at 5th etc... don't add extra damage for high strenth... they get that already... or they could powerattack

Well thats my 2 cents

Venatius
2005-08-06, 02:29 AM
Themewise, I'm really not sure I'm at all getting how this is different from "being a monk".
Powerwise,wow. Wildly unbalanced. If I'm level 10, fighting an opponent of equal CR (10), and have okay dexterity (16/+3, say), it means I have to roll a 4 or higher to ignore an enemy attack? And I can later make up to 20 attacks per round for a measly -4 to hit? I really don't mean this to sound like a personal attack, but it's my own marginally educated opinion that this class is wildly lacking in balance, flavor distinction, and "flow". The latter is hard to explain exactly. But what I mean is the abilities seem kinda oddly ordered and arbitrary, not building toward any kind of unified idea or coming in any really logical seeming order.
If there were a more worthwhile concept behind it than "being a monk", I'd suggest a from-the-ground-up rework, but I don't know if, as it is, I see any way it could really be "fixed" that you could still even call it the same class any more.

Everyman
2005-08-06, 03:10 AM
Jibar, Jibar, Jibar....you and your monks.

From what I read, this is less monk and more tank. *You lack synergy with the monk class (no progression of AC, unarmed damage, etc), and really just focus on a whole "Me hurt you with pounding" kind of effect. *Not that it is bad (and excuse the stereotype of the dumb fighter), but it isn't monk. *Otherwise, it's an interesting class.

Requirements: *More or less okay. *Unfortunately, it feels a bit lacking. *Since this PrC is supposed to be an unstoppable martial artist, why not require Stunning Fist? *It's a great unarmed attack AND will help define this as a bit more monkish (though not monk exclusive).

HD: Hokay. *A d12 HD is meant for exactly one type of character: *the brutally tough and resiliant ones. *What you have here is a talented fighter, but not necessarily an unnatural tough one. *Let's lower it down to a d8. *Still good, but not overpowering. *

Skills: *Skill selection looks great, but 6+Int modifier for points is a bit much for a class with precisely 6 skills. *Heck, it's a bit much for any class that doesn't focus on skills in the first place. *May I suggest you reduc the points to 4+Int, and add a few more class skills? *Frankly, the Monk class skill list should work fine. *If you want, you could always remove Diplomacy, the Knowledges, and Perform. *The rest make sense for a bodily monk.

BAB and Saves: *You don't have Unearthed Arcana or the DMG2, do you? *Well, I'm going to suggest the following....
BAB.....Fort.....Reflex...Will
+0.......+2.......+2.......+0
+1.......+3.......+3.......+0
+2.......+3.......+3.......+1
+3.......+4.......+4.......+1
+3.......+4.......+4.......+1
+4.......+5.......+5.......+2
+5.......+5.......+5.......+2
+6.......+6.......+6.......+2
+6.......+6.......+6.......+3
+7.......+7.......+7.......+3
It's close to what you wrote, but more standard.

From this point on, I'm going to either A) make some notes or B) echo Hzurr.

Unarmed Perfection: *See Hzurr's. *In addition, I'd make a note that a Kingroshi monk's unarmed damage is equal to a monk of the same level, and levels in this class stack with regular monk levels to determine unarmed damage.

Unarmoured Bonus: *What kind of AC bonus is this? *Does it count as an armor bonus, or is it similar to the monk bonus to AC? *Otherwise, good.

Deadly Body: *The bonus damge I can (sorta) understand. *That's fine. *The extra damage from the whole "every three points above ten" shtick just has to go. *A person is already adding their strength bonus to damage, so why add in another bonus? *I know it isn't as much, but it still makes for a pretty powerful wallop (especially if you take my suggestion about how unarmed damage should work).

Athletic Body: *Echo Hzurr.

Counterattack: *Okay, as I understand it, the check DC is your opponent's challege rating (which I assume is supposed to be Equivalent Character level) minus your Dex bonus, and you USE YOUR DEX BONUS IN THE CHECK? *Again, you need to avoid causing double bonuses (ECL of 13, your Dex is 14: *DC=13-2=11. *You get to roll a d20 and add two to it. *What you have to roll=11-2=9.) *Instead, keep the opponent's ECL requirement, but make it opposed to your own ECL. *If you want, the class could gain a +1 bonus to their check at 4th and every even level thereafter. *Everything else about the ability (the damage/grapple part) works fine, though may want to limit how often this can be used.

Whirlwind Attack: *Echo Hzurr, though you would need to note that the charcter gains the feat even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites. *You can keep it at its current level as well.

Blink of an Eye: *Lose it. *I can't think of a single reason for a class like this to have that ability.

Legendary Jump: *Echo Hzur, though I'd move it down to 6th. *You're considered a 1st level caster when you use the SP, until 10th when you can go twice per day and are considered a 5th level caster.

Improved Whirlwind Attack: *You do need something at 10th level other than an Unarmed bonus, so I don't object to an Imp. Whirlwind Attack. *However, if you followed the instructions I left for regular Whirlwind Attack, your current set-up doesn't work. *Since we (or I, if you disagree with my methods) want to keep Whirlwind Attack at 5th level, but want a more potent version, why not say that a characte may now make TWO attacks at full BAB, instead of one? *Now that's impressive.

All in all, you made a very potent and flavorful prestige class. *You really just need to tidy up the wording and fix up a few things. *Then it'll be perfect.

Jibar
2005-08-06, 05:18 AM
thanks for your help guys, I'll do the chanegs then post the new version,
Oh, and I have got DMGII and am getting Unearthed Arcana, but they didnt seem to help really,
oh, and the -4 to hit is for every attack, so you could roll a 6 yet only get 1 attack,