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Starbuck_II
2005-08-05, 01:47 PM
Tell me how my class looks. I want to make sure it is balanced.


Body guards are skilled at protecting a designated person from harm, often taking a charge's place as target of threats and attacks.
Bodyguard
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills
The bodyguard's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Info (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (wis), *Swim (Str)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x?4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.


Table: The Bodyguard * * *
Level * * *Base Attack Bonus * * *Fort Save * * *Ref Save * * *Will Save * * *Special * * *
1st * * *+1 * * *+2 * * *+2 * * *+0 * * *Diehard * * *
2nd * * *+2 * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+0 * * *Defended Ally, Cover, AC + 1
3rd * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+3 * * *+1 * * *Toughness
4th * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+1 * * *Brave, Toughness * * *
5th * * *+5 * * *+4 * * *+4 * * *+1 * * *AC + 2, Defensive Strike+ 1
6th * * *+6/+1 * * *+5 * * *+5 * * *+2 * * * * *
7th * * *+7/+2 * * *+5 * * *+5 * * *+2 * * * * * *
8th * * *+8/+3 * * *+6 * * *+6 * * *+2 * * *Bonuses Charm/Compulsion, Toughness* * *
9th * * *+9/+4 * * *+6 * * *+6 * * *+3 * * * * * *
10th * * *+10/+5 * * *+7 * * *+7 * * *+3 * * *Deflect Melee, AC + 3, Defensive Strike + 2 * * *
11th * * *+11/+6/+1 * * *+7 * * *+7 * * *+3 * * * * * *
12th * * *+12/+7/+2 * * *+8 * * *+8 * * *+4 * * *Mettle, Toughness * * *
13th * * *+13/+8/+3 * * *+8 * * *+8 * * *+4 * * * * * *
14th * * *+14/+9/+4 * * *+9 * * *+9 * * *+4 * * * * * *
15th * * *+15/+10/+5 * * *+9 * * *+9 * * *+5 * * *AC + 4, Defensive Strike + 3
16th * * *+16/+11/+6/+1 * * *+10 * * *+10 * * *+5 * * *Combat Reflexes, Toughness* * *
17th * * *+17/+12/+7/+2 * * *+10 * * *+10 * * *+5 * * * * * *
18th * * *+18/+13/+8/+3 * * *+11 * * *+11 * * *+6 * * * * * *
19th * * *+19/+14/+9/+4 * * *+11 * * *+11 * * *+6 * * * * * *
20th * * *+20/+15/+10/+5 * * *+12 * * *+12 * * *+6 * * *AC + 5, Defensive Strike + 4, Toughness

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Bodyguard.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Bodyguard is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
Diehard: At level 1, a Bodyguard remains able to guard others even after attacks would fell others. He gains the feat Diehard, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.
Defended Ally: When rolling Initiative choose an ally to focus on defending (may not change focus in same encounter).
Cover (Ex): If within 5 feet of that ally may take a melee attack meant for them. Must declare taking the blow before it is rolled. This is useable 1/level per day.
Armor Class bonus: A Bodyguard gains +1 dodge bonus to AC when with 15 feet of the ally you are defending. This bonus increases by +1 every 5 levels.
Toughness: Bodyguards are tougher than the average fighter and as such gain toughness as a bonus feat at level 3 & 4 and every 4 levels after (8, 12, 16, 20).
Brave (Ex): A Bodyguard at level 4, gains a +4 morale bonus on will saves versus fear effects.
Bonus to Charm and Compulsion (Ex): Beginning at level 8, a Bodyguard has a bonus to all charms and compulsions. The bodyguard has such devotion to his ward, that he cannot be distracted. He gains a *compentence bonus against charms and compulsions equal to his bodyguard level. He only gains this bonus within 20 feet of the ally he chose to defend this encounter.
Deflect Attack (EX): Beginning at level 10, a Bodyguard gains the ability to, within 5 feet of a ally you chose to be defending if holding a shield or melee weapon, block an attack as a free action. Reflex Save DC 20 + 1 per magic bonus to attack (such as a +2 sword adds +2 hit/damage). You gain +1 circumstance bonus to reflex per 5 Bodyguard levels for this ability. This is usable 1/3 Bodyguard level per day.
Defensive Strike (Ex): Beginning at level 5, you gain an attack of opportunity against any adjacent opponent who attacks the ally you focused to defend in melee. You gain +1 circumstance bonus to hit every 5 levels to this opportunity of attack. This doesn't let you exceed the number of Attks of Opportunity limit /round (Combat Reflexes helps here).
Mettle (Ex): Starting at level 12, a Bodyguard determination allows him to shrug off magical effects that would otherwise harm him. If a Bodyguard make a successfully will or Fort save that would normally reduce the spell's effect (such as a spell with entry Will partial or Fortitude half) he instead negates the effects.
Combat Reflexes: At level 16, A bodyguard can respond quicker and repeatedly against opponents who let their defenses down.. A Bodyguard gains Combat Reflexes even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites. If he already has Combat Reflexes, it increases the number of attack of opportunities by 3.
So any comments?

Hzurr
2005-08-05, 02:52 PM
Cover (Ex): When rolling Initiative choose an ally to focus on defending (may not change focus in same encounter); if within 5 feet of that ally may take a melee attack meant for them. Must declare taking the blow before it is rolled.
I'd limit this ability. *Maybe once per day per level?



Armor Class bonus: A Bodyguard gains +1 dodge bonus to AC when actively defending an ally. This bonus increases by +1 every 5 levels.

Is this just a generic bonus, or does it only go into effect if he's fighting defensively?



Toughness: Bodyguards are tougher than the average fighter and as such gain toughness as a bonus feat at level 3, 18, and 20.

Level 3, 18, and 20? *That's...odd. *Nothing wrong with it I guess, but it's...odd. *At level three, I can see how it's nice, but at level 18 and 20? *and extra three hitpoints are essentially worthless once you're that high. *I'd say either get rid of it at the higher levels, or spread it out more. (Maybe getting it at lvl 6 and 9 instead of 18 and 20?)



Bonus to Charm and Compulsion (Ex): Beginning at level 8, a Bodyguard has a bonus to all charms and compulsions. He believes his mind is his own and no other creature can control his thoughts or actions. He gains a bonus against charms and compulsions equal to his bodyguard level..
*
While I don't have a problem with the ability, I'm a bit confused on the source. *He believes his mind is his own? *That's just...odd. *Maybe reword this to the bodyguard has such devotion to his ward, that he cannot be destracted. *As such, he gains this bonus only when he is actively defending



Deflect Attack (EX): Beginning at level 10, a Bodyguard gains the ability to 1/round within 5 feet of a ally you are defending if holding a shield or melee weapon block an attack as a free action. Reflex Save DC 20 + 1 per magic bonus to attack (such as a +2 sword adds +2 hit/damage). You gain +1 circumstance bonus to reflex per 5 Bodyguard levels for this ability.

The wording is confusing here. *I like the idea of a reflex save to deflect an attack, but the DC calculation is odd. *Also, I'd limit this to a number of times per day



Mettle (Ex): Starting at level 12, a Bodyguard determination allows him to shrug off magical effects that would otherwise harm him. If a Bodyguard make a successfully will or Fort save that would normally reduce the spell's effect (such as a spell with entry Will partial or Fortitude half) he instead negates the effects.
Woah...so basically evasion for everything that isn't reflex. *Is this ability from the PhB? *I think I've heard of it, but it seems to be very powerful. *I advise limiting this to when he's protecting an ally



Overall, I like where you're going with this class. *It still needs some work, but it definately has potential. *In my opinion, however, it seems that this might work better as a PrC, rather than a full-blown 20 level class.

Venatius
2005-08-05, 02:59 PM
Woah...so basically evasion for everything that isn't reflex. *Is this ability from the PhB? *I think I've heard of it, but it seems to be very powerful. *I also advise limiting this to when he's protecting an ally



I THINK Mettle made its first appearance as an ability of the Hexblade class (Complete Warrior), or possibly Pious Templar (Complete Divine). Bear in mind it's not QUITE as powerful as it sounds. It applies only to damaging spells and effects, and almost all pure damage spells/effects are Reflex-save based. The only cases where Mettle would particularly help are against, say, Phantasmal Killer (Will, and actually, I think it might not even count) and Disintegrate (Fortitude). Those are the only spells I can think of off-hand that it would help you against.

Shiyuan
2005-08-05, 03:23 PM
I THINK Mettle made its first appearance as an ability of the Hexblade class (Complete Warrior), or possibly Pious Templar (Complete Divine). Bear in mind it's not QUITE as powerful as it sounds. It applies only to damaging spells and effects, and almost all pure damage spells/effects are Reflex-save based. The only cases where Mettle would particularly help are against, say, Phantasmal Killer (Will, and actually, I think it might not even count) and Disintegrate (Fortitude). Those are the only spells I can think of off-hand that it would help you against.

Mettle actually makes its first appearance in Oriental Adventures as a class feature for the base class Sohei, I believe. I agree with Venatius' assessment, the ability is not actually at all overpowered, and in my experience with my beloved Sohei, it comes into play only rarely or uncommonly at best.

TSGames
2005-08-05, 03:37 PM
Why does he get a dodge bonus to AC? *Pitcure this:
Bodyguard:OK, stand behind me, there's no way those arrows will get you I have a high AC.
Commoner:OK.
SPLOORCH!
Bodyguard:O yeah...I'ts a dodge bonus to AC... O well! *Good thing he paid in full before the job!

AtomicKitKat
2005-08-05, 03:44 PM
Dodge is the only AC that stacks with itself.

stainboy
2005-08-05, 03:48 PM
Mettle applies to any spell with a save of Fort partial, Fort half, Will partial, or Will half, not just spells that deal hit point damage. It still barely ever matters though; for most spells that call for a Fort of Will save, a successful save negates the effect anyway.

NEO|Phyte
2005-08-05, 07:36 PM
isnt there a fighter variant called bodyguard?

/me checks his sources

:edit: muh??! i didnt put that red there

found it.

Page 33 of Dragon Magazine issue 310.

Adghar
2005-08-05, 07:50 PM
I smell FF inspiration. Though that may just be the watermelon sitting on the dinner table.

Yeah, the whole toughness thing should be moved farther down to lower levels. Maybe fill up 6th, 11th, and 14th (keeping toughness at third)?

I think that Mettle should be bumped up to at least 14th level.

Maybe the dodge bonus is for partial dodging. Like if you quickly lean(what? There was no other word) to the side as the arrow hit, you could only take negligible (0 HP's worth of) damage without harming the Commoner.

StarWarz2
2005-08-05, 10:10 PM
(emphasis mine)


Bonus to Charm and Compulsion (Ex): Beginning at level 8, a Bodyguard has a bonus to all charms and compulsions. He believes his mind is his own and no other creature can control his thoughts or actions. He gains a bonus against charms and compulsions equal to his bodyguard level.
I like the idea of this, but I have slight problem with the green part of the quote ... Do you really intend this Bodyguard to have a +20 unnamed bonus to his saves versus charms/compulsions @ level 20? Seems just a tad excessive, doesn't it? Maybe start at +2 (since it's 8th level) and increase it by +1 every 4 levels (so, 12, 16, and 20 to max it at +5).

Also, make it a compentence bonus instead of an unnamed bonus. This makes sense to me because of the flavor text that you put in. Because of his belief in his own abilities.

Otherwise, looks pretty good. It resembles the Knight Protector PrC from Complete Warrior. In fact, it looks like you're taking the concept of the Knight Protector and stretching it out to a full 20 level class, instead of the 10 level PrC.

bingo_bob
2005-08-05, 11:14 PM
Sorry, but it seems weak to me. Not enough emphasis on offense for a base class, and too few class abilities.

Beelzebub1111
2005-08-05, 11:20 PM
Wish I saw this before I made bodyguard for "Life in the Thieve's Guild"

StarWarz2
2005-08-06, 07:45 AM
Sorry, but it seems weak to me. Not enough emphasis on offense for a base class, and too few class abilities.

That's the point of the class. It's defensive in nature. Someone else's defence.

Having said that, I will have to agree Hzurr and say that this feels more like a PrC for a Paladin, Monk or Fighter rather than a new base class idea. And in that case, the niche is filled by the Knight Protector.

AtomicKitKat
2005-08-06, 08:11 AM
Actually, when I saw it, I think the first class that came to mind was "Devoted Defender."

That being said, maybe spread Toughness to regular intervals(including to epic). Give it at level 4(or 5), and every 4(or 5) levels thereafter. Overall, this means he will have 3/4 or 3/5 more hit points than a regular fighter, but still significantly less than a Barbarian.

bingo_bob
2005-08-06, 08:44 AM
That's the point of the class. *It's defensive in nature. *Someone else's defence.

Having said that, I will have to agree Hzurr and say that this feels more like a PrC for a Paladin, Monk or Fighter rather than a new base class idea. *And in that case, the niche is filled by the Knight Protector.


I know, but when you look at it, a lot of what it gets are just bonus feats. And the other features are not that powerful. I think that you'd find it difficult to level up much.

Starbuck_II
2005-08-06, 09:14 AM
Yeah, the whole toughness thing should be moved farther down to lower levels. Maybe fill up 6th, 11th, and 14th (keeping toughness at third)?

I think that Mettle should be bumped up to at least 14th level.

Maybe the dodge bonus is for partial dodging. Like if you quickly lean(what? There was no other word) to the side as the arrow hit, you could only take negligible (0 HP's worth of) damage without harming the Commoner.

I agree with toughness being moved down.

And yes, this started as a Fighter varianbt, but I wanted to make it its own class and not a fighter variant.

To my knowledge there is no 3.5 Devoted Defender.(I have no Complete Warrior to check)

And yeah, I see the dodge bonus as partial dodging.



I like the idea of this, but I have slight problem with the green part of the quote ... Do you really intend this Bodyguard to have a +20 unnamed bonus to his saves versus charms/compulsions @ level 20? * *Seems just a tad excessive, doesn't it? *Maybe start at +2 (since it's 8th level) and increase it by +1 every 4 levels (so, 12, 16, and 20 to max it at +5). *

Yes, I intend it to have +20 compentence bonus at level 20. It is one of the benefits of the class that you strongly believe your mind if your own. And at that point it almost is always. Due to the classes bad will saves this helps.



Is this just a generic bonus, or does it only go into effect if he's fighting defensively?

I edited it so it is anytime he is within 15 feet of the Ally he is defending.
The Defended ally is chosen at Initiative time at start of encounter as normal.



I know, but when you look at it, a lot of what it gets are just bonus feats. And the other features are not that powerful. I think that you'd find it difficult to level up much.

Agreed, but look at what you get:
At level 20, +20 to Charms and compulsion saves. Worth losing a few bonus feats.
Toughness x 6 (18 hps)
Diehard (worth 2 feats to get)
Brave (+4 save versus fear, not as good as Paladin's immunity but this is Ex not Su)
Mettle
Combat Reflexes
Dodge Bonus (when near ally)
Deflect Attack *(beside ally)
Cover for Ally. beside ally)
Defensive Strike (beside ally)

And yes this is a Tank type class. Offense is not neccessary for a tank class. That would be Damage dealers. People always confuse the two.



I also edited to make Deflect Attack have no 1/ round lomit, because I made it useable a couple times a day, it makes little sense to power it down to a round limit.

I've seen the Knight Protector in Sword and Fist but not in Complete Warrior. you had to be Lawful.
In 3.0,
Defensive blow (added damage and hit when trying to protect another (but unlike Bodyguard never have to choose one person, it can switch)
Shining Beacon : gives allies +4 save versus fear
Iron will
Supreme Cleave
No Mercy

My class is nothing like this. I base my class on the idea of Devoted Defender: able to defend others.
However, Devotede Defender had Good Fort and Reflex saves and 1d12 hps.

Is there a 3.5 one?