View Full Version : Fish out of water

2009-07-22, 09:23 AM
Ok, lets say somehow a Direshark got caught when finish.

Out of water what would you give it for stats.
I assume it could survie for a number of minutes.

here are the Base stats: (from srd)

Size/Type: Huge Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 18d8+66 (147 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: Swim 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (–2 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+27
Attack: Bite +18 melee (2d8+9)
Full Attack: Bite +18 melee (2d8+9)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Keen scent
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +13, Will +12
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +12, Spot +11, Swim +14
Feats: Improved Natural Attack (bite), Toughness (4), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Cold aquatic
Organization: Solitary or school (2–5)
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 19–32 (Huge); 33–54 (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Dire sharks attack anything they perceive to be edible, even larger creatures.

This monstrous fish can grow to a length of 25 feet and weigh more than 20,000 pounds.

Dire sharks bite with their powerful jaws, swallowing smaller creatures in one gulp.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a dire shark must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe in the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A dire shark can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to one size smaller by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d6+6 points of bludgeoning damage plus 1d8+4 points of acid damage per round from the shark’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out using a light slashing or piercing weapon by dealing 25 points of damage to the shark’s digestive tract (AC 13). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

A Huge dire shark’s gullet can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium or Small, 32 Tiny, 128 Diminutive, or 512 Fine or smaller opponents.

Keen Scent (Ex): A dire shark can notice creatures by scent in a 180-foot radius and can detect blood in the water at a range of up to 1 mile.

Skills: A dire shark has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered.

It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

I was thinging it could proably lash about (tail swing damage) and maybe move abit as part of a lash attack?

I need it to be a CR10ish

Sinfire Titan
2009-07-22, 09:28 AM
It can still use its bite attack, and it can only move 5ft as a Full Round action. It also has to hold its breath or begin drowning. That's RAW; giving it a tail attack is RAI.

Technically, you could rule that its skin is considered a bite attack seeing as sharks can taste with their skin (it's considered a shark attack if they even brush up against you).

2009-07-22, 09:28 AM
It's a CR 9 when in its element. It's not going to be a higher CR when suffocating and unable to move properly.

2009-07-22, 09:38 AM
Yeah, you are going to have to Template that thing up.

I vote giving it the Vivacious Template. Flying Shark!

2009-07-22, 10:13 AM
It shouldn't get OOA's when it's out of water. Because it is dire, I would recomend something like twenty rounds before it dies because it can't breathe.

2009-07-22, 10:59 AM
I'd rule that the standard drowning rules apply. Adjust it for air.

Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain.

Twice the Con score is 34 rounds. Average Fort save roll is 24.5. If I'm doing my math right, this means the shark will fail its Fort save, on average, 58.5 rounds (almost 6 minutes) after being out of water.

I'd give it the same stats it has in the water, but a land speed of 5ft. I'd eyeball it at -2CR because of that.

+2CR if it has a frickin' laser beam attached to its head.

2009-07-22, 11:38 AM
I'd rule that the standard drowning rules apply. Adjust it for air.

Twice the Con score is 34 rounds. Average Fort save roll is 24.5. If I'm doing my math right, this means the shark will fail its Fort save, on average, 58.5 rounds (almost 6 minutes) after being out of water.

I'm not sure your math's right (the average save roll isn't particularly relevant here)

Given a Fort save of +14, and that the saves start at DC10 at round 35, here are the probabilities.

{table]Round|DC|To Save|Prob. Succ|Cumulative|*|**

* Probability that this is the exact round the shark dies on - this is an interesting column because the interaction of all those different probabilities leads to some oddball behavior - a spike once the DC goes up past where the save is only failed with a natural one.
** Running total of previous column

This puts the average number of rounds survived at 43.2.

How'd you work out your answer?

2009-07-22, 11:56 AM
Whoops, misread the initial save DC, and didn't account for 5% natural 1 rate. Anyway, the shark is most likely going to be able to hold its breath far beyond the length of a normal encounter. If they just sit around waiting for it to strangle, it'll probably be able to jump back into the water, even at 5 movement.

2009-07-22, 02:45 PM
technique this things probably got a lot more penalties like being prone and with only a five foot speed if their on a sufficiently large fighting area they should easily be able to just move back and pound it at range using their five foot steps to stay out of its way. Theirs no way this thing as is is cr 10.

depending on how big this boat is you could make a cheek each round it thrashes about to see if it breaks the boat dumping the pcs into the water where it has the edge. Then the pcs need to worry about their armor dragging them to the bottom.

2009-07-22, 02:57 PM
The better question is how did they manage to reel in a twenty five foot shark, and then haul it up onto the beach? I assume it's a beach, no fishing boat or dock would support a six ton fish thrashing around. I saw Jaws.

2009-07-22, 03:04 PM
maybe not 6 tons. 2 tons is typical for a 20 ft shark, 3 tons might be justified for a 25 ft shark.

Not sure what species Dire shark most closely approximates to. (megalodon is already in MM2 and is gargantuan)

Heaviest shark ever caught on hook and line was 18 ft long and just over 1 ton in weight- anything bigger probably requires harpoons and the like.