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doliest
2009-07-23, 05:09 AM
So Watchmen has been a highly celebrated graphic novel, a movie, a novelization of a movie, so what's left for a watchmen fan to hope for? Personally I want a DVD compilation of the Watchmen saturday morning cartoon #@$* it!



Also in all seriousness now that things have had a while to settle down what was your opinion of the movie and the graphic novel itself?

Ichneumon
2009-07-23, 05:14 AM
The graphic novel is great, turns more great after a few re-reading.

The movie was as great as they could have realistically made it. The story doesn't lent itself well for a movie and changing the story too much wouldn't be a great idea.

doliest
2009-07-23, 05:15 AM
I liked the movie and it really did do it's best; I'm actually happy they didn't go with the giant squid part though; it would have looked horrible.

Ichneumon
2009-07-23, 05:19 AM
I agree the movie was nice, although you should really look at it from a adaptation from a book-point of view. I can understand why people who just go see it as a "superhero movie" think it's a bad movie.

EvilDMMk3
2009-07-23, 05:20 AM
Both are rousing renditions of the same story. But, as media changes so, inevitably, must the focus and flow of the story. I have a few quibbles with both, but they are both weakest at their endings. Despite what Allan Moore devotees would like to think the film's ending has a more realistic chance of achieving the desired end, if only because it did not have a jittery and trigger happy American government have a huge explosion in a major city without warning. By the time the details filtered through the nukes would already have been in the air, although both endings have problems.

Erothayce
2009-07-23, 05:52 AM
I love the graphic novel and I think the movie is as good as it could have been. The only real grief I had was how they changed the ending. And the unnecessarily long sex scene. I realize it's Hollywood but it's still annoying.

Ichneumon
2009-07-23, 05:54 AM
I thought the choice of background music was hillarious at certain moments.

pita
2009-07-23, 07:03 AM
Intentionally hilarious, though. It's what irks me about reviews for the movie. People complain that the moment with Hallelujah was made ridiculous because of the song, and that Unforgettable didn't suit the assassination scene.
THAT'S THE GORRAM POINT.
The movie could have been done better with a director and writer who understood subtlety, but not much. All in all, some of the best possible things that could have been done were done. I prefer the comic ending, but the movie one is better for a movie, because to understand the squid you need 4-5 hours of background. Watchmen would have been served well as a miniseries.
"The book was better" nyah nyah nyah.

doliest
2009-07-23, 08:10 AM
Yeah for the squid to make sense you really do need the background although a certain tiger still made it in. I've heard complaints about the silk specter but really considering how good Rorschach's actor is...

Once again I voice my idea that an animated series would be a great idea; would make a really good saturday morning cartoon.

Muz
2009-07-23, 10:13 AM
They really should have left the tiger out. Speaking as someone who saw the movie (and liked it well enough) before reading the comic, it was distracting in a "what the hell IS that?" sort of way. :smallsmile:

Neko Toast
2009-07-23, 10:27 AM
Finally saw the movie. My opinion is "It isn't great, but it isn't bad, either. They could have done a lot worse than this". I was mostly disappointed because Nite Owl was way out of character in this movie.

Trai
2009-07-23, 11:01 AM
I read the graphic novel before seeing the movie. I really enjoyed the graphic novel, and felt that the movie was as faithfully adapted as it could have been. I was definitely glad they changed the giant squid ending, though.

I felt the acting was great except in two cases-- Malin Akerman (Laurie) and Matthew Goode (Ozymandias). In Malin Akerman's case, it is a bad, bad thing when the drawing in the comic can convey more emotion than a human being. In Goode's, I've seen him do well in other things (Brideshead Revisited comes to mind), but he seemed too wimpy to be Ozymandias.

I did, however, think the casting of Wilson and Haley for Nite Owl and Rorschach, respectively, was great. You could see the friendship between them that the characters really needed. Morgan as the Comedian was great as well.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-23, 11:09 AM
I left the Watchmen movie thinking "if I'd read the novel, I think I would've hated this." Then I read the novel and found I was right. The novel was a literal "I don't want to put this down" feeling. The movie was just "eh" at best and "ugh" at it's worst points.

pita
2009-07-23, 11:14 AM
Billy Crudup was excellent also. Him and Haley know this: Monotone voice acting can still be acting, and it can still be amazing.

Rutskarn
2009-07-23, 11:20 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and echo the current theme, here. Thought the graphic novel was fantastic. Thought the movie was pretty good.

The movie tried to encompass most of the plot elements of Watchmen, and largely succeeded, but it ultimately failed to capture the themes those elements existed to create. Friends of mine that thought Watchmen was ponderous and "trying too hard" liked the movie, friends who felt as I did...well, felt as I did.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-23, 11:23 AM
Crudup was excellent, probably the best actor in the film (just could've done without the constant nudity). I think Haley was fine right up until the end where he started hitting Narm territory. Morgan's Comedian was ok, but Ackerman and Goode were just bad.

How can you screw up the "35 minutes ago" line? Seriously? It's the best line in the entire book and it gets delivered so poorly that it actually falls flat!

Starscream
2009-07-23, 11:59 AM
The novel is one of those things that everyone should read at least once. Even if you aren't interested in comic books, you should give this one a shot.

The movie was...pragmatic. I enjoyed it, but every change was a little jarring. It's still one of the most loyal movie adaptations I've ever witnessed, but if they were going to push the envelope and try for 90% accuracy, I don't see why 100% seemed out of the question.

Okay, explaining the squid would have been difficult. But no more difficult than explaining the blue naked omnipotent guy, and they did that fine.

Still, I was pleasantly surprised at how well some of it did translate to the screen. I always agreed with Moore that a decent film version was impossible, and it was gratifying to find out that it could be done at all.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-23, 12:19 PM
The comic is more than enough for any watchmen fan.

Muz
2009-07-23, 12:23 PM
Mr. Moore? Is that you? :smallbiggrin:

Tirian
2009-07-23, 03:03 PM
I agree with Berserk Monk. I have read the graphic novel about once a year since it came out, and I don't expect that I'll watch the movie again. It wasn't awful and the original plan was for it to be much worse, but the only thing it brought to the franchise was Apollonia Vanova's outstanding portrayal of Silhouette.

daggaz
2009-07-24, 12:08 PM
Didnt read the novel or even know of it until the movie came out.

Im a mean critic, I watch waaaay too many movies, and I read. A lot. Really A LOT A LOT.

Gotta say, the movie completely movied me in a lot of ways. Yeah it had various weak points etc etc blah blah, but what they tried to get across, I feel they succeeded phenomenaly at. Ozzy was maybe the weakest link (I have no quips with Laurie, feel she played her part to exactly what it was supposed to be (having not read the book)) but then again, he is a megalomaniac superintelligent superfast pedophilic throwback that is completely isolated from humanity. He isnt supposed to stand out and be bad ass. Frankly, he came off just about right (with just about the right amount of ********, as Laurie calls him in the end) as far as I think the film was trying to portray him.

This is such a great story, and I didnt feel the taint of hollywood in it nearly at all. Kudos to the Americans for finally getting something right, tho many of my friends just dont feel the way I do about this one. Guess we dont all dwell on existance and the end of humanity as we know it, after all.

Muz
2009-07-24, 12:26 PM
Ozymandias is a pedophile? Where did you get that?

pita
2009-07-24, 12:26 PM
The thing is that Ozzy isn't supposed to be a pedo throwback. He's slightly megalomanic, but in the book he is superman. He's the perfect person, and every impression everyone has of him (but Rorschach and the Comedian) is a favorable one. Ozymandias is what irks me about the movie. In the book he's genuinely a good person. Ozzy in the movie was cold and purely evil. In the book he's a warm, friendly person, and you really get a feel that he does not like what he did. In the movie there's one throw-away line he gets.
Now, I think that Watchmen is the best superhero movie there is (with a possible MAYBE of TDK being better), but that movie has two weaknesses, and Ozzy is one of them. The other one is that Zack Snyder wouldn't know what subtlety was if it hit him on the head with a cement hammer.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-24, 12:31 PM
Ozymandias is a pedophile? Where did you get that?

When Rorsharch was going throu Ozymandias' computer there was a folder labelled "boys."

It's kinda ambiguous, but it could be taken that way.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-24, 12:31 PM
Ozzy was maybe the weakest link (I have no quips with Laurie, feel she played her part to exactly what it was supposed to be (having not read the book)) but then again, he is a megalomaniac superintelligent superfast pedophilic throwback that is completely isolated from humanity. He isnt supposed to stand out and be bad ass.[/spoiler]

He can catch a bullet whilst delivering a powerful kick to the gunman (or gunwomen as it were). What's not bad ass about that?

[spoiler]This is such a great story, and I didnt feel the taint of hollywood in it nearly at all. Kudos to the Americans for finally getting something right, tho many of my friends just dont feel the way I do about this one. Guess we dont all dwell on existance and the end of humanity as we know it, after all.

I disagree. The graphic novel is outstanding, maybe the best thing I've ever read and the movie doesn't do it justice.

Erts
2009-07-24, 12:32 PM
When Rorsharch was going throu Ozymandias' computer there was a folder labelled "boys."

It's kinda ambiguous, but it could be taken that way.

Wow... Really?
The book was excellent, but from what I've heard the movie was okay.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-24, 12:35 PM
Wow... Really?
The book was excellent, but from what I've heard the movie was okay.

Personally I think it was meant to tie in with Rorsharch's muttering about Ozymandias possibly being homosexual, but I can see how it could be taken to be indicitive of paedophilia (which, to me, would only hurt the film. We're supposed to like Ozymandias. That's the point. The movie turned him into, if you pardon the unoriginality, a Republic serial villain).

The Orange Zergling
2009-07-24, 12:40 PM
When Rorsharch was going throu Ozymandias' computer there was a folder labelled "boys."

It's kinda ambiguous, but it could be taken that way.

Though Ozymandias did run a toy franchise so it could also have been business stuff related to toys marketed towards boys.

pita
2009-07-24, 12:52 PM
I disagree. The graphic novel is outstanding, maybe the best thing I've ever read and the movie doesn't do it justice.
Of course it doesn't. You take a 400 page novel and turn it into a movie you lose a lot. You turn a 400 page comic book in which each panel holds 20 hints and side-stories and has some pages from a fictional book in the world as well as a deep mythology arc that doesn't happen on page but is alluded to between the lines into a movie you lose almost everything. And for a movie that is unfilmable Watchmen was pretty good.

Though Ozymandias did run a toy franchise so it could also have been business stuff related to toys marketed towards boys
Unfortunately, both director and actor agreed that the character was gay, so not much chance of that. He's also seen in the beginning of the movie with The Village People and David Bowie and Freddy Mercury.
There's also a line from Rorschach in the director's cut that, in the original novel, showed Rorschach's prejudices, but is definitely proof in the movie.

Ditto
2009-07-24, 01:18 PM
I thought the adaptation was pretty fantastic. Manhattan is supposed to be very naked, team, deal. :smallamused: I agree Ozymandias' casting was the worst of it... I saw a still of that fellow and immediately pegged him as way to shrimpy to be the ubermensch he's supposed to be.

One of my favorite moments in the comic is when he's looking at all the news stations and plotting out a new line of military enemies for the Watchmen action figure lines. He's such a calculating genius in every field, it's brilliant. In the movie it's like he's just reading villian cue cards.

EvilDMMk3
2009-07-24, 03:50 PM
We're supposed to like Ozymandias. That's the point. The movie turned him into, if you pardon the unoriginality, a Republic serial villain).Just a side note, I never liked Ozymandias in either version.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-24, 03:56 PM
Of course it doesn't. You take a 400 page novel and turn it into a movie you lose a lot. You turn a 400 page comic book in which each panel holds 20 hints and side-stories and has some pages from a fictional book in the world as well as a deep mythology arc that doesn't happen on page but is alluded to between the lines into a movie you lose almost everything. And for a movie that is unfilmable Watchmen was pretty good.

Even so, they had the option of breaking the plot down into multiple movies without losing anything.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-24, 03:59 PM
Just a side note, I never liked Ozymandias in either version.

What I meant was that in the comic Ozymandias is pretty much the idealized superhero: he's smart, attractive, powerful. He's the person that everyone would turn to when something needed fixing. In the movie, just taking one look at him is enough to know that he's a villain.

EvilDMMk3
2009-07-24, 04:04 PM
What I meant was that in the comic Ozymandias is pretty much the idealized superhero: he's smart, attractive, powerful. He's the person that everyone would turn to when something needed fixing. In the movie, just taking one look at him is enough to know that he's a villain.I know, that is fairly clear. Infact I think that might have been what turned me against him. He just seemed like a smarmy corporate mogul to me.

Tirian
2009-07-24, 05:04 PM
Though Ozymandias did run a toy franchise so it could also have been business stuff related to toys marketed towards boys.

Um, in the super-seekrit password protected folder, right next to the plan to destabilize all of the world's superpowers? I'm thinking that he keeps his toy marketing campaigns somewhere else.

pita
2009-07-24, 05:12 PM
Even so, they had the option of breaking the plot down into multiple movies without losing anything.

No, they couldn't have. The Studio was made of a-holes. The ideal thing would be to make a Watchmen miniseries, but again, WB are WB. The writers were told "You have a 2 and a half hour movie to write. Base it on this." Zack Snyder was told "Here's a script, direct it." His response was "Go to hell, this script is horrible" and he got a new one from Alex Tse, who fiddled with a script by David Hayter that was pretty much Approved by Alan Moore. But seriously, the old script was horrifying. It's somewhere online if you have the courage to look for it. If studios weren't all studio-ey then it would have been possible. But studios are there to fund movies and dumb them down.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-24, 05:32 PM
No, they couldn't have. The Studio was made of a-holes. The ideal thing would be to make a Watchmen miniseries, but again, WB are WB. The writers were told "You have a 2 and a half hour movie to write. Base it on this." Zack Snyder was told "Here's a script, direct it." His response was "Go to hell, this script is horrible" and he got a new one from Alex Tse, who fiddled with a script by David Hayter that was pretty much Approved by Alan Moore. But seriously, the old script was horrifying. It's somewhere online if you have the courage to look for it. If studios weren't all studio-ey then it would have been possible. But studios are there to fund movies and dumb them down.

They did do a sort-of mini series: Watchmen the motion comic. All the animation is taken directly from the images in the comic so the animation is kind of crappy, and one guy does all the voices (even for Silk Specter), but it's completely accurate on the plus side.

RandomNPC
2009-07-24, 06:50 PM
the best part of the movie was the sex scene, because we took a bunch of friends and our resident "yeti" as i will call him was made uncomfortable. Don't get me wrong, this guy talks about sex more than I do, but he had some unfortunate luck. To put it as he did "there's the longest sex scene i've seen outside of adult movies, and there i am sitting next to my best friends wife."

I make a point to read the book before i see the movie, for everything thats got a book before. And I've got to say I didn't know i was an origonal content fan anywhere near as much as i am untill the prison break with roarsharch saying "your fingers, my pleasure" and i almost shouted "Your fingers my PERSPECTIVE" i felt the word pleasure made it seem like he just enjoyed hurting anyone, where perspective shows he accepts this guy as a villan not just some guy.

things like that made me pick it apart as i watched it, but as a story by itself it was good right up untill the "hollywood ending"

Jahkaivah
2009-07-24, 07:00 PM
Um, in the super-seekrit password protected folder, right next to the plan to destabilize all of the world's superpowers? I'm thinking that he keeps his toy marketing campaigns somewhere else.

"Sir, we've gone ahead and marketed your giant alien squid toy idea"

"....crap"

Berserk Monk
2009-07-24, 07:09 PM
There were so many times I wanted to shout something out in the theatre when I saw it:

the part when they were hauling Moth Man away, I wanted to say either "You can't arrest me damn it! I'm the moth! I'm the MOTH!" or "Oh, no wonder he's crazy. He thinks he's a moth."

and the scene with Kennedy was shot, I was about to quote Clone High "Nothing bad ever happens to the Kennedys."

and I would have quoted the show again for the sex scene "Do you mind? Some of us are trying to bang Catherine the Great...or should I say Catherine the So-So."

doliest
2009-07-24, 09:14 PM
Just bought the DvD and gave it another viewing and I've gotta say that the actor playing Ozzy is a bit of a wimp, but believable and I must again profess my love of Ror's voice as it's what christian bale wishes he could be; Threatening, but not stupid. Spectre is acceptable upon repeated viewings and as for cast my main suggestion is that although the doctor is good I'd have preferred Keanu Reeves if we're going for no emotion. Also big figure continues to be hilarious.

The Orange Zergling
2009-07-24, 09:30 PM
Um, in the super-seekrit password protected folder, right next to the plan to destabilize all of the world's superpowers? I'm thinking that he keeps his toy marketing campaigns somewhere else.

You could also say the same thing for the alternative interpretation of "boys". Though I suppose that if that's true and he really is a pedophile then he probably really would want to hide it behind a password...

As for acting, I thought most everybody did pretty well; Ozymandias was kind of lackluster but was passable. Rorschach/Kovacs was probably the best of the lot, though there is a little room for improvement. I couldn't find any glaring flaws with Silk Specter, though she didn't exactly blow me away either. Dr. Manhattan was great overall and Nite Owl seemed... I dunno, kind of awkward. But then his character is the same way so this could either mean he did it really well or really poorly.

pita
2009-07-25, 05:38 AM
Manhattan was great. The actor conveyed everything with his voice and his eyes. Keanu can't act. Crudup was amazing. I really don't get him being an inferior choice. Notice the tiny facial ticks Manhattan makes throughout the movie. Notice his voice. This is one of the greatest examples of minimal acting that I've ever seen.
Patrick Wilson as Night Owl was perfect for the character. He pulled him off brilliantly, and just as Night Owl was supposed to be.
Jackie Earle Haley is an Oscar nominee doing the role of his lifetime. My one complaint is that he kept the growl even when the mask was off, which he doesn't in the comic book. I would have liked to hear him speak in a normal voice.
Jeffrey Dean Morgan was perfect. What sells him is the fact that everyone thought he was Robert Downey Jr. not just because of the looks, but also because he was a brilliant actor.
I've said what I wanted about Matthew Goode.
Malin Ackerman is a great comedic actress. She has excellent comedic timing and is likable. But she can't do drama. Her acting felt very fake, especially at the end in Mars.

Trai
2009-07-25, 06:07 PM
"Sir, we've gone ahead and marketed your giant alien squid toy idea"

"....crap"

*snicker* Puts a damper on that plan, eh?

banthesun
2009-07-27, 03:55 AM
When I got in to the cinema I was all set to hate it. Then it started and it was really really good. Then it kept going and it was good. Then it kept going and it was alright. Then it kept going and it was dodgy. Then it ended and it was terrible. I felt the start was the perfect adaptation of the book. But form there it just got worse

Jamin
2009-07-27, 11:46 PM
Once again I voice my idea that an animated series would be a great idea; would make a really good saturday morning cartoon.
No it would not. Do you really think a Saturday morning cartoon of WATCHMAN is a good idea. Are you crazy?

kpenguin
2009-07-27, 11:48 PM
Yeah, its a crazy idea alright. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)

pita
2009-07-28, 12:40 AM
Yeah, its a crazy idea alright. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)

Crazy AWESOME.

doliest
2009-07-28, 12:52 AM
Yeah, its a crazy idea alright. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)

Damnit after seeing that I NEED to see a Watchmen cartoon. Get someone on the phone, I want that running on any channel that still has Saturday morning cartoons by the end of week!

Myatar_Panwar
2009-07-28, 12:54 AM
I just saw the movie last night, and as someone who has only read the very first comic, I enjoyed it far, far too much. Just thought I'd throw that out there. :smalltongue:

Thialfi
2009-07-28, 08:31 AM
I have never read the graphic novel and went into the movie not knowing the basic plot.

I thought it was an alright movie but I had a big problem with the ending. I didn't think the BBEG's motives made any sense and I had a problem with how little care he seemed to have disguising his tracks.

Why would Ozymandias think that the world would unite behind a common enemy that strikes once and then dissappears forever? It doesn't make any sense. It took the USA and the USSR approximately 15 seconds to become mortal enemies after they defeated the nazis. I think his cover story of providing unlimited free energy to every nation had a whole lot better chance of working.

I won't get into the rediculous recklessness with which Richard Nixon and the military establishment operate in this movie. I feel the path to nuclear war in this movie is ludicrous.

Ozymandias is engineering the biggest cover up in human history and he creates a shell corporation with easy to follow direct ties to his company to hide his footsteps? I couldn't suspend my disbelief for this one.

Tirian
2009-07-28, 12:24 PM
I thought it was an alright movie but I had a big problem with the ending. I didn't think the BBEG's motives made any sense and I had a problem with how little care he seemed to have disguising his tracks.


You're not the only one who had problems with the ending (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhHema5PNg).

Seriously, the graphic novel does a much better job of establishing where the BBEG is coming from and that you can have an honest discussion about whether he was going to get away with it. Yes, you'll say "Gee, a giant exploding psychic alien squid makes some sense, all things considered." :smalltongue: One might still conclude (as I do) that the plan wouldn't have brought about an end to global thermonuclear politics for long and that the BBEG would never have enjoyed the fruits of his conquest, but at least you can accept that it was an attempt that he would have made in good faith.

Maybe Snyder could have told that story in four hours, if he didn't mind parts of the audience drifting off in the middle of it. Obviously, he wasn't offered that kind of time. And also, part of the awesomesauce that is Watchmen is that Alan Moore originally told a story that works really well as a symbol-heavy twelve chapter comic book with a random assortment of primary source documents to flesh out the environment and characters. There's just no way to enjoy the same experience in a linear movie, especially if you don't have a pause and rewind buttons at yuor disposal.

Megatron46
2009-07-28, 12:31 PM
Love the comic. Intelligent, thought provoking, just generally brilliant.

Really disappointed with the film. Thought The Comedian and Rorschach were great, as was the opening credits sequence. However, the rest didn't do it for me. I thought the actors/characters lacked charisma, especially Ozsymandias, that god awful sex scene was well...god awful really. Nah, I was really let down. It did lead to a great argument with a work colleague who loved it, however, so it was not all a wash out!

Jeivar
2009-07-28, 12:42 PM
I thought it was an alright movie but I had a big problem with the ending. I didn't think the BBEG's motives made any sense and I had a problem with how little care he seemed to have disguising his tracks.


Well, the graphic novel does heavily hint that Ozy's plan will ultimately FAIL, and that he has achieved nothing but needless mayhem. Throughout the story, his plan is paralleled with a pirate comic book a character is reading:

It's about a sailor who is shipwrecked after an attack by demonic pirates. The mariner believes they are heading for his hometown, and goes on a desperate journey to make it back home before they can strike, to avert catastrophe. He goes insane from hardship and despair, and once he arrives he is convinced he's too late and that the pirates have already struck. His madness causes him to murder innocent people ("pirate collaborators") before he realizes the truth: He has committed horrible deeds to avert/avenge an attack THAT ULTIMATE NEVER HAPPENED. The pirate comic ends with him swimming out into the sea, to join the demon pirates in damnation.
Given the constant parallel, this kind of casts Ozymandias' actions in a rather dark light.

Especially since his last scene has Ozy ask Manhattan:
"I did the right thing though, right? In the end?"
"End? Nothing ends Adrian. Nothing ever ends."
"Wait, what to do mean by that?!"
Manhattan teleports away, and Ozy is left deeply troubled . . .


EDIT: Seriously, what is the big problem with the sex scene? I just don't get how many people bleat on about this. Real sex ISN'T all neat and tidy like in most Hollywood movies.

Phase
2009-07-28, 12:45 PM
Yeah, novel was spectacular, movie was...

It was pretty good at the beginning, the opening montage being the highlight. My biggest qualm with the movie is that it lacked ANY SUBTLETY.

Especially with the violence. Sure, the book was violent, but less disgustingly so. And small changes were made that conveyed less, and were less interesting. Like Rorschach's transformation. In the book, he has a clean psychotic break, one minute a rational detective, the next a cold, methodical monster; he then goes and handcuffs the criminal to the boiler, hands him a saw, and burns down the building. In the movie, he paces jitteringly and hits the criminal in the head with a cleaver. No standing outside watching the flames, no distorted "moral assertion" gained by giving the criminal the chance to escape by self-sacrifice, no nothing.

@^: Because the sex scene goes on for five minutes. It's long, awkward, and annoying.

Jeivar
2009-07-28, 12:50 PM
Y
Especially with the violence. Sure, the book was violent, but less disgustingly so.

Well, keep in mind that at the time, the violence in the Watchmen comic was pretty shocking and extreme, as a way of deconstructing superhero violence. I think the movie brutality was a way of recreating that to a far more hardened audience.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-28, 12:51 PM
EDIT: Seriously, what is the big problem with the sex scene? I just don't get how many people bleat on about this. Real sex ISN'T all neat and tidy like in most Hollywood movies.

It was overly long, pointless in the overall scheme of the movie, and served no purpose other than to have an idiotic ejaculation joke at the end of it.

Call it bleating on all you want, but it could have been cut and no one would've batted an eye.

Dervag
2009-07-28, 12:54 PM
Just bought the DvD and gave it another viewing and I've gotta say that the actor playing Ozzy is a bit of a wimp, but believable and I must again profess my love of Ror's voice as it's what christian bale wishes he could be; Threatening, but not stupid. Spectre is acceptable upon repeated viewings and as for cast my main suggestion is that although the doctor is good I'd have preferred Keanu Reeves if we're going for no emotion. Also big figure continues to be hilarious.Actually, as I recall it's a minor point in Watchmen that Dr. Manhattan isn't emotionless. He's alienated, he's somewhat shocked by what he did to end the war in Vietnam, and he's got a very different perspective on the universe, but he still has emotions. Hence:
"When you left me, I left Earth."

So what was needed was an actor who could create the outward appearance of emotionlessness, but who gave little signs that he cared about the things he was seeing. A guy who goes around with an expression of Dull Surprise on his face all day wouldn't cut it.

pita
2009-07-28, 12:55 PM
I thought the actors/characters lacked charisma, especially Ozsymandias, that god awful sex scene was well...god awful really. Nah, I was really let down. It did lead to a great argument with a work colleague who loved it, however, so it was not all a wash out!

I think they were almost universally supposed to lack charisma.
And the sex scene was intentionally bad. They originally had a woman singing Hallelujah but it sounded too serious, so they took it off and put on their version.

Jeivar
2009-07-28, 12:58 PM
It was overly long, pointless in the overall scheme of the movie, and served no purpose other than to have an idiotic ejaculation joke at the end of it.

It was the culmination of Dan and Laurie falling in love, and was symbolic of Dan getting his mojo back in more ways than one.

Cristo Meyers
2009-07-28, 01:07 PM
It was the culmination of Dan and Laurie falling in love, and was symbolic of Dan getting his mojo back in more ways than one.

All throughly shown by the simple fact that he even put the costume on once she came on the scene period. The only thing this scene added was that now the audience knows he can get it up as well.


And the sex scene was intentionally bad. They originally had a woman singing Hallelujah but it sounded too serious, so they took it off and put on their version.

"I know! We'll take the sex scene from the book (because audiences love sex, no matter who they are), stretch it out to five minutes, and put corny background music on! That'll make the audience uncomfortable and wondering what the hell is going on!"

"Um...sir, why would we want the audience to be uncomfortable and wondering what the hell is going on?"

"You can't possibly comprehend my incredible brain! Hope you like snow!" *pulls switch*

"Sir...we had the trapdoor uninstalled on Tuesday..."

Jahkaivah
2009-07-28, 01:16 PM
Why would Ozymandias think that the world would unite behind a common enemy that strikes once and then dissappears forever? It doesn't make any sense. It took the USA and the USSR approximately 15 seconds to become mortal enemies after they defeated the nazis.

The point of the alien attack/Dr Manhattan framing was to stop the war, not prevent it forever, for that it served it's purpose.

pita
2009-07-28, 03:28 PM
"I know! We'll take the sex scene from the book (because audiences love sex, no matter who they are), stretch it out to five minutes, and put corny background music on! That'll make the audience uncomfortable and wondering what the hell is going on!"

"Um...sir, why would we want the audience to be uncomfortable and wondering what the hell is going on?"

"You can't possibly comprehend my incredible brain! Hope you like snow!" *pulls switch*

"Sir...we had the trapdoor uninstalled on Tuesday..."
More like:
"We'll take the sex scene from the book, that's meant to be akward and funny, stretch it out from one page to approximately 2-3 minutes, and add some corny background music. This will relieve tension, and make the smarter members of the audience laugh! Also, it'll piss off Moral Guardians!"
You do realize that they accidentally press the flamethrower button. The one right next to the AA Missiles. In the book too. It's meant to be as corny and akward as it looks, because the fact is you have two people aroused by disguising themselves and trying to help people while being dickish. In the comic book, during the rescue, one of the people tells them they need to take medicine with them, and Silk Specter doesn't care, pretty much telling them to shut up and sit down. She later threatens someone with fear of heights. They are so busy gratifying themselves, which is the point of the scene in the comic. The movie had it upped to 11, just like it had the violence. People who think the movie was too gory have to realize that for its time, Watchmen was over the top violence in comic books. The movie tried doing the same for movies.

doliest
2009-07-29, 04:53 PM
Really the sex scene was rather enjoyable in a ridiculous kind of way; it's about as serious as you can be with two people aroused by being superheros and the flamethrower was hilarious.

ThunderCat
2009-07-29, 05:34 PM
I never read Watchmen. I didn't even know it existed until I decided to go see the movie, and read a little about the back story. I really liked it, some things didn't make a lot of sense, but it was entertaining, and an interesting take on the genre. I didn't find the sex scene (more) awkward (than it needed to be in order to convey the right mood), and I was pleasantly surprised they didn't put a pair of unnecessary pants on Doctor Manhattan. It made me want to read the comics.

pita
2009-07-30, 06:26 AM
ThunderCats, read the comic book. No matter how great I thought the movie was, it's nowhere near the absolute brilliance of Watchmen. The amount of references and hints spreaded out, along with the amazing attention to minor details, makes it the best GN ever, and possibly one of the best novels. Read it now. Or, even better, buy it and then read it.