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Froogleyboy
2009-08-01, 09:57 PM
Okay, I'm wanting to make a Vampire: The Masquerade character but I just don't understand the system (I'm used to the D20 system). Could someone walk me through Character creation. My main concept is a young vampire who fought for the confederacy (Alabama) in the american civil war. He's a gambler who seems to enjoy the company of humans (he finds them hilarious)

SilverSheriff
2009-08-01, 10:01 PM
You got the books?

If not: Tra-DAAAA! (http://wodquickstarts.my100megs.com/) Online Resources to the rescue and while we are at that I'm currently running a game in the Ongoing games forum.

Edit: Read the Fine Print at the bottom of that Link's Page.

fetfet
2009-08-01, 10:03 PM
If that doesn't help, PM me your details, and I'll help out as best i can.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-01, 10:22 PM
The thing is, it dosent make sense to me.

jmbrown
2009-08-01, 10:34 PM
Do you have the World of Darkness rule book? If not then you're going to be pretty lost.

Edit: Wait, are you playing masquerade as in the original World of Darkness book or are you playing Vampire: The Requiem which is the newest Vampire setting? If it's the former then the rules are included in the book. If it's the latter then you have to buy World of Darkness core setting first.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-01, 10:36 PM
Do you have the World of Darkness rule book? If not then you're going to be pretty lost.

Oh . . . I do not

TheOOB
2009-08-01, 10:38 PM
Do you have the World of Darkness rule book? If not then you're going to be pretty lost.

Thats if you are playing Vampire: The Requiem. Vampire: The Masquerade is stand alone.

SilverSheriff
2009-08-01, 10:42 PM
Thats if you are playing Vampire: The Requiem. Vampire: The Masquerade is stand alone.

Quoted for Truth... and quoted for why I'm never going to play Requiem which was made despite the fact that Masquerade was perfectly fine.


anyway: My link has everything you need (I.E. the core Handbook)

jmbrown
2009-08-01, 10:43 PM
Thats if you are playing Vampire: The Requiem. Vampire: The Masquerade is stand alone.

I just edited my post to reflect that.

You have the Storyteller System which is the original World of Darkness and began with Vampire: The Masquerade. V:tM is self contained so everything you need to know is in the rulebook.

The newest edition is Storytelling System which is contained in the World of Darkness core book and you need that to play Vampire: The Requiem or any of the other nWoD books.

I have no idea why White Wolf didn't just call them 1st and 2nd edition to make things simple for new players.

SilverSheriff
2009-08-01, 10:45 PM
To make Money and because VtM already had 3 editions?

horus42
2009-08-01, 10:46 PM
.I have no idea why White Wolf didn't just call them 1st and 2nd edition to make things simple for new players.

I think it's because saying "Second Edition" implies that the new version is better, while Old WoD and New WoD just comes off as "they're different."

EDIT:


To make Money and because VtM already had 3 editions?

Quoted for truth

fetfet
2009-08-01, 10:48 PM
I think it's because saying "Second Edition" implies that the new version is better, while Old WoD and New WoD just says comes off as "they're different."

QFT. I've played both, and the only difference is in the fluff, and the slight rules differences.

jmbrown
2009-08-01, 11:04 PM
I think it's because saying "Second Edition" implies that the new version is better, while Old WoD and New WoD just comes off as "they're different."

Considering oWoD material is out of print I'm willing to believe it's the "money" thing.

horus42
2009-08-01, 11:08 PM
Considering oWoD material is out of print I'm willing to believe it's the "money" thing.

I'm not saying it isn't money, because I'm sure it is. I'm just saying that the reason I think they don't call them 1st and 2nd edition is because a lot of the fans tend to get very rabid if you try to say one is better than the other.

Civil War Man
2009-08-01, 11:15 PM
White Wolf character generations is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. It's basically point buy.

Take Attributes, for example. They have three categories: Physical, Social, and Mental. You choose one of these categories to be your characters Primary focus, one to be Secondary, and the remaining one is the Tertiary.

Let's take your concept for example.
Physical Primary: An imposing physical presence, probably frequently getting into fights
Social Primary: A very strong personality, can usually talk his way out of trouble, loves being around other people, can fit in with just about any crowd
Mental Primary: The quintessential professional gambler. Keen eye, great gut instinct, and able to calculate the odds of anything

Physical Secondary: Physically fit, maybe gets into fights when someone accuses him of cheating, cannot be Physical Primary
Social Secondary: Comfortable around most crowds, usually generally likeable but not necessarily the center of attention, cannot be Social Primary
Mental Secondary: Does not possess overwhelming genius, but is still generally smarter than the average bear, cannot be Mental Primary

Read through those, and choose a Primary and Secondary that most closely fit what you want your character to be. Whichever category you don't pick is your Tertiary (for example, if you choose Social Primary, Mental Secondary, you are Physical Tertiary)

Now comes the point buy part. Each of these categories has three stats.
Physical
Strength - How strong you are
Dexterity - How fast you are
Stamina - How tough you are

Social
Charisma - Your ability to get people to like you, also your ability to order people around
Manipulation - Your ability to get what you want whether you are liked or not. Think of it as the Subtle Charisma
Appearance - How physically attractive you are

Mental
Perception - How well you can pick up what's going on around you
Intelligence - How much you know
Wits - How fast you think

You start off with 1 point in each of these stats. If I remember correctly, you get 7 points that you can add to any stat in your Primary category, 5 points you can add to any stat in your Secondary category, and 3 points you can add to any stat in your Tertiary category.

You then go through a similar process for Abilities, with the categories being Talents, Skills, and Knowledges. You'll want to consult your character sheet for the list of things you can spend points on there.

That probably wasn't the best explanation, but thinking of it as multiple point buys might help.

Semidi
2009-08-01, 11:22 PM
Keep in mind I usually make characters for LARP (Masquerade LARP is quite a bit different than table-top. Requiem is almost identical.)

For you I would go 9th-12th generation if it's civil war era.
Social primary, mental secondary, and physical tertiary.
Clan: Toreador, Malkavian (gambling addict), or Ravnos. (The latter two are more difficult to play than Toreador)
Skills: Social/mental/physical

I dunno, I could probably build the character, but you wouldn't learn anything. Do you have any more specific questions regarding character creation?

jmbrown
2009-08-01, 11:34 PM
I'm not saying it isn't money, because I'm sure it is. I'm just saying that the reason I think they don't call them 1st and 2nd edition is because a lot of the fans tend to get very rabid if you try to say one is better than the other.

*Looks at the polar split between 3E fans and 4E fans*

You have a point. If 4E was called anything but Dungeons and Dragons there probably wouldn't have been as much hate for it.

erikun
2009-08-01, 11:36 PM
It's been awhile since I last made one, but creating characters for Vampire: The Masquerade isn't too difficult. You just need an idea of what you want, and what options are available.

You DO NOT need the World of Darkness Core Rulebook (http://www.amazon.com/World-Darkness-Storytelling-System-Rulebook/dp/1588464768). That is a different edition.

So what do you want to play? A wild, animalistic vampire (Gangrel), an arcane blood mage (Tremere), crazy (Malkavian), or someone who would fit into the Mafia (Ventrue)? Do you want someone how tears apart opponents, who manipulates those around them, or who makes it a point to think his way out of a situation first?

These aren't the only options - there's over a dozen clans, and more than twice as many individual powers - but it should give you an idea of what to play.

Terraoblivion
2009-08-01, 11:43 PM
Actually it might be a good idea to hold off on choosing clan. Some of them are very specific and very weird so choosing them before you have worked your character out in fairly great detail might lead you to become more stereotypical than anything else. At least i always had that problem when playing VtM. Remember your character doesn't pick his clan, you might well be an atypical member of it, such as a bookish Gangrel or a shy Brujah, if you just comes up with an interesting reason why.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-02, 02:29 PM
Thelizard told me that I'm a brujah

NPCMook
2009-08-02, 09:35 PM
Pfft, Tell him to let you play a Curmudgeon Malkavian with Fugue and is a Mute...

Now that fellow playgrounders is Role-play experience!

fetfet
2009-08-02, 09:52 PM
He's not playing in my game. The character merely sounded like a Brujah. You know, wild, crazy, and forceful.

Project_Mayhem
2009-08-03, 05:16 AM
He's not playing in my game. The character merely sounded like a Brujah. You know, wild, crazy, and forceful.

Oh dear, these modern American Brujah are so dull - always the rabble rousers whining about the fall of a Carthage they never knew. Give me the noble philosopher kings of old Europe any day.

Otogi
2009-08-03, 01:18 PM
To make Money and because VtM already had 3 editions?

The first is a given, and it's the only reason if you're a vampire purist. If you want to play a werewolf and a mage together with a vampire, the werewolf might as well sleep in his coffin while the werewolf handles all the combat and the mage handles everything else. If you play them all against each other, than all hail the wizard-king!

Set
2009-08-03, 03:09 PM
Okay, I'm wanting to make a Vampire: The Masquerade character but I just don't understand the system (I'm used to the D20 system). Could someone walk me through Character creation. My main concept is a young vampire who fought for the confederacy (Alabama) in the american civil war. He's a gambler who seems to enjoy the company of humans (he finds them hilarious)

Any clan can be made to fit any concept, with a smidge of creativity.

In your case, the character seems most suited to Brujah (Near Dark style rowdy boys) or Malkavian (off-kilter kindred who are, in human terms, insane) or Ravnos (gypsy tricksters). For a new player, a Brujah is the 'easiest,' with Disciplines of Potence (great strength), Celerity (blinding speed) and Presence (inhuman charisma).

Note that Vampires gain power fairly quickly, in play, so a starting character who used to be a confederate soldier should have an in-story reason why he's not advanced in power (perhaps he spent decades lying in torpor, after falling on that civil war battlefield, perhaps he's only recently re-awoken, perhaps he's enjoyed highs and suffered lows over the last century, and both gained, and lost, power, through diverse means). Seeing how power can be taken away (or lost, or squandered) in this manner, might be connected to his gambling. Perhaps he rolled the dice with a man he met at a crossroads, who offered to increase his power if he won, and reduce it if he lost. The first toss of the dice went poorly, but it was the 'double or nothing' that really brought him low! (The setting does have precedent for deals with the infernal granting one extra powers, or imposing extra costs. Your character might have been inspired by the Devil Went Down to Georgia, only he's the dude they didn't write a song about, the one whose overconfidence cost him dearly...)

Given the very basic description above, the young man sounds like he would have either physical or social attributes as his primary, and mental as his tertiary. Every stat starts with 1 dot for free, and you get seven points in your primary, five in your secondary and three in your tertiary.

A decent Brujah build might have;
(primary) Strength 3, Dexterity 4, Stamina 3
(tertiary) Intelligence 2, Perception 2, Wits 2
(secondary) Charisma 3, Manipulation 2, Appearance 3

A more 'lover, not a fighter' build would make Social the primary and Physical the secondary. The numbers I listed make the character very agile, and you might picture him being more of a tough-as-nails survivor whose seen it all, and want to drop Dexterity to 3 and bump Stamina to 4.

The character does sound like it will focus on Social matters, to an extent, so you'll probably want at least one of your three starting Discipline dots to go into Presence, for 'schmoozing' with the mortals, although, depending on the rules in use, a dot in Celerity doesn't hurt for a quick getaway, or a blindingly-fast physical attack. Potence never hurts, for a hand to hand or melee combatant, as it adds an automatic success to damage rolls for each level you have. One dot in each is a fairly generic build, although you'll want to consult with the ST to see how Celerity works. Under some rules, it's overpowered. Under others, it's a waste of blood that could have been far more efficiently spent elsewhere. If it's somewhere in the middle, it's worth investing in.

It's best to know what Disciplines you are going to favor before delving too deeply into Abilities (skills). Once you are more familiar with the system, it's fine to just assign dots into skills that make sense for the character, and then go add a few to relevant Discipline-dependencies to make the character effective at what he does later, but for a first character, you might want to reverse that and try to make a character that won't sour you on the game by leaving you frustrated in your first play experience.

Presence will often require dice rolls based on a Social Attribute (Charisma, Manipulation or Appearance) plus some Ability (Intimidation, etc.). Check those rules either in a book or online, to find out what Attributes and Abilities your Discipline powers will rely upon. It's no fun to base a character entirely around the 3rd rank of Presence (Entrancement) only to find out that you have no ranks in the necessary skills, and get only a couple of dice to roll!

Froogleyboy
2009-08-03, 06:57 PM
I got the book and made my character. I decided he fought in the Vietnam war and was a part of the Hippie movement. He was shot in the jungles of vietnam and screamed for help until a beautiful woman approached him and offered him eternal life. He reluctently said yes and she embraced him. She belonged to no clan and thuss neither did he. He now attempts to fit in with humans and has a small group of people (his herd and allies) who follow him across the country. He stays in one place till people become suspicious and then he leaves. He refuses to drink blood from those who are unwilling and will not kill those he feeds from (he calls it a love bite).

comicshorse
2009-08-03, 07:49 PM
She belonged to no clan and thuss neither did he.

Oh you're Caitiff.

Good luck 'cause boy are you going to need it:smalleek:

Quincunx
2009-08-04, 05:48 AM
Makes a good hook, though, for the new guy. Other players who are nosy about the surrounding vampires (which should be all of them) will want to know who this sire is and what is she doing influencing anything in their city. . .dangnabbit, now I want to play again.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 09:45 AM
Oh you're Caitiff.

Good luck 'cause boy are you going to need it:smalleek:

Why, Whats wrong with Caitiffs?

horus42
2009-08-05, 09:51 AM
Why, Whats wrong with Caitiffs?

A lot of people see Caitiffs as a sign of the coming of Gehenna, when the Antediluvians (the founders of the clans) will rise from their nigh eternal slumber and basically eat everyone. As such, there are lots of vamps who want to destroy Caitiffs to prevent it from coming.

Those who don't believe in Gehenna just find them strange, too weak to live, or simply fear them because they don't understand. And since Caitiffs are usually weaker than most other vamps, that's definitely not good.

NPCMook
2009-08-05, 09:56 AM
Or he could be a Pander >.>

Yes, I realise there is absolutely no difference between them really.

Dixieboy
2009-08-05, 10:49 AM
Almost, Panders are an accepted part of the sabbat, Caitliff are riff-raff hated by everyone. (The brujah and the Nosferatu are the only ones who doesn't seem to hate them according to the core book.
However the Brujah can never agree on anything and the Nosferatu won't go out of their way to help anyone not a Nos)


A lot of people see Caitiffs as a sign of the coming of Gehenna, when the Antediluvians (the founders of the clans) will rise from their nigh eternal slumber and basically eat everyone. As such, there are lots of vamps who want to destroy Caitiffs to prevent it from coming.

Those who don't believe in Gehenna just find them strange, too weak to live, or simply fear them because they don't understand. And since Caitiffs are usually weaker than most other vamps, that's definitely not good.
The funny thing is that according to theory presented in the many, many books the killing of the caitliff is what will eventually awaken the Antediluvians.

Mark Hall
2009-08-05, 11:03 AM
Heck, not being a caitiff is about the only protection my 14th generation vamp has...

comicshorse
2009-08-05, 11:42 AM
While your g.m. might not be so nasty as to make being a Caitif a 'kill-on-sight' offence at the very least you will be labelled as a second class citizen and looked down on by pretty much everybody.
Also you have no clan to help you out ( which is the advantage Panders have no matter how much the Sabbat treat them as disposable idiots) which means every manipulator will see you as the perfect target to screw over or frame as they know no other Kindred will support you.
Find a coterie and fast ! They will be the only Kindred even vaguely on your side and you are going to need them

Project_Mayhem
2009-08-05, 02:11 PM
Ah man. My henchman, Fink, was a low generation Caitif. I think I was the only god damn vampire in York that realized they had a use other than meat shield against the Sabbat. But then, I was playing a Gangrel, who have that problem as well. The group Lasombra used to sneer so much.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 02:39 PM
Well . . . are there any clans that the Protean discipline?

Dixieboy
2009-08-05, 02:44 PM
Well . . . are there any clans that the Protean discipline?
If you mean clans that have the protean disciple:
Just Gangrel and a couple of their bloodlines.

Riffington
2009-08-05, 02:58 PM
If you mean clans that have the protean disciple:
Just Gangrel and a couple of their bloodlines.

But to note, of all the "unique" disciplines (Protean, Thaumaturgy, Serpentis, etc...), Protean is the one closest to the heart of what it is to be a vampire, and it would not be surprising for a non-Gangrel to have it.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 03:16 PM
the main reason i chose Catiff is so I could get any combination of disciples

Dixieboy
2009-08-05, 03:19 PM
the main reason i chose Catiff is so I could get any combination of disciples

Bad min-maxer.
Bad! :smallmad:

Taking a "clan" with less blood points for spiffy disciplines isn't even good min-maxing :C.

Go over your character one more time and decide if being a Caitliff is worth it/fitting for your character.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 03:39 PM
Bad min-maxer.
Bad! :smallmad:

Taking a "clan" with less blood points for spiffy disciplines isn't even good min-maxing :C.

Go over your character one more time and decide if being a Caitliff is worth it/fitting for your character.

Well, it fits my concept as well. He has nothing to do with vampire society. He attempts to live his old live

Dixieboy
2009-08-05, 03:47 PM
Well, it fits my concept as well. He has nothing to do with vampire society. He attempts to live his old live
Such a quirk shouldn't limit your choice of Clan, seeing as that's actually a fairly common practice for those not initiated into the Camarilla or the Sabbat immediately. (Especially Toreadors)

Mark Hall
2009-08-05, 04:21 PM
the main reason i chose Catiff is so I could get any combination of disciples

Sometimes useful, sometimes not. Take, for example, my guy. For him, I really wanted Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude. He was primarily going to be a fighter-guy (his actual concept is a super-hero who beats up gangs for blood and money).

I could have gone Caitiff; it would've allowed me to concentrate on the disciplines I wanted, had no pesky disadvantages, and would've fit well into my "I don't pay attention to vampire politics" 14th generation character concept.

Instead, I went Brujah, for a couple reasons.

First of all, being Brujah meant I had a modicum of protection... I was somebody in the scheme of things, even if they somebody was a piece of trash, I was somebody's trash, as opposed to trash that belonged to nobody.

Secondly, two of the three disciplines I wanted were in that Clan, so, from a numbers perspective, I was a bit ahead... the savings on Protean and Celerity would offset the cost of fortitude, and I got to throw in Presence (which I intend to get up to 2, so I can scare people).

Yes, it's not everything I want. It has the clan drawback... but it at least has the protection of clan, and a place in society.

satorian
2009-08-05, 04:30 PM
Also, remember that "likes hanging out with humans" is a Toreador trait.

The version of your concept I'd most enjoy playing would be a "True Brujah" Camarilla-not-yet-initiated low generation orphan. In a longer game, always spend as many points as possible for the best generation possible. Experience can make up the gap for other things, but only diablerie can get you a better generation in-game. And diablerie is BAD.

You might want to think about your backstory a little. Beautiful woman in vitnam during wartime raises the question: what the hell is she doing there? She's not in the US military. She's probably native. But if she is native, then she is probably an Asian vampire, which are a completely different species of vampire from the euro-ones. Different powers, mythology, everything. They're ghost-demon things who tend to hate western vampires. If she is not an Asian vampire but lived in Asia, she probably had powerful enemies who were. Which means YOU would have powerful enemies. If I were you, I'd have her be an 8th gen (maybe even 7th - I think it's possible for you to start at 8th. and if you can, you should) French true brujah aristo who escaped France just before the French Revolution, slowly working her way east. She was quietly instrumental, through her ties to the Camarilla, in laying the groundwork for French colonial rule in Indochina. However, as she saw the Ventrue manipulations of the populace and the coming Camarilla war with the Asian vamps (which was the true meaning of the Vietnam war, of course), she began to distance herself from the Cam. She believed too much in the Masquerade to become Sabbat, but she became an independent agent protecting the kine peasants from vamps and mortals alike. You attacked a village she was protecting. She sensed in you a kindred spirit when you sacrificed yourself in a refusal of an order to fire on women and children. Thus, after she wiped out your whole platoon, she saved you with embrace.

Even if you don't play that, it sounds like fun to me :)

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 04:45 PM
I changed my sire to the man who captured me as a POW. One night he was starving, and when one of the guards tossed me to the ground I got scratched and began bleeding. The smell of my blood drove him to the point of attacking me. Once his appetite was filled he re-gained his senses and saw that I was dying. He then slit his wrist and fed me. Causing me to awaken as a vampire. I really want Protean because to me, vampires should be able to do that stuff.

Mark Hall
2009-08-05, 04:52 PM
I changed my sire to the man who captured me as a POW. One night he was starving, and when one of the guards tossed me to the ground I got scratched and began bleeding. The smell of my blood drove him to the point of attacking me. Once his appetite was filled he re-gained his senses and saw that I was dying. He then slit his wrist and fed me. Causing me to awaken as a vampire. I really want Protean because to me, vampires should be able to do that stuff.

Then what's wrong with Gangrel as your clan?

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 04:55 PM
Then what's wrong with Gangrel as your clan?

My Character is a city slicker

Dixieboy
2009-08-05, 04:56 PM
Question:
Will you ever NEED protean?
Seeing as your character screams Toreador (For liking mortals) or Ravnos (For gambling), I'd say no.

Will your character ever need to pull out claws?
Or sleep in dirt?

Unless you spend alot of time roaming the countryside, not really, and even then you could conceivably just use a bodybag and a shotgun.
Not as effective, but if it's good enough for the Brujah bikers, it's good enough for you.

Besides, Protean might strike you as something all vampires should have, but aren't vampires supposed to be allergic to garlic and crosses. (Crosses can cause damage, but only when used by someone with "True faith".

If you really need it anyway there is a merit that allows you to get an extra "Clan discipline".


My Character is a city slicker
The humorous thing about this is that there is an Urban variant of Gangrels.
They don't have protean. (I think...)
I also believe they are sabbat.

Mark Hall
2009-08-05, 04:58 PM
My Character is a city slicker

There are the City Gangrel (http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Gangrel_(VTM)), which is one of the bloodlines. Instead of Animalism, they have Obfuscate, and instead of Fortitude they have Celerity.

satorian
2009-08-05, 05:00 PM
I know you are not too familiar with the setting, but you really should grapple with the fact that it would be exceedingly rare for a vampire embraced in Asia, especially as long ago as 40 years ago, to be a Cain descended vamp. They would be this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindred_of_the_East. You cannot be that in your game, I assume. Kuei-jin have a tendency to wipe out Kindred who invade their turf unless those Kindred are simply too powerful to mess with or promise to move on quickly. Kindred who embrace natives would be quickly killed along with the Childer.

Also, how would a vampire who can't be active during the day be able to part of a normal VC military unit that moves around guerrilla-style 24/7? Even assuming he had no respect for the masquerade, and ordered his unit to carry him around in a box during the day, such a setup would be very odd for guerrillas inasmuch as it would make them less mobile. If he was an independent operator, what was he doing guarding you?

Dixieboy
2009-08-05, 05:04 PM
Also, how would a vampire who can't be active during the day be able to part of a normal VC military unit that moves around guerrilla-style 24/7? Even assuming he had no respect for the masquerade, and ordered his unit to carry him around in a box during the day, such a setup would be very odd for guerrillas inasmuch as it would make them less mobile. If he was an independent operator, what was he doing guarding you?
Actually there was at least one canonized Vampire who was a soldier in 'nam, (No explanation given on how it worked though)


And some sires are VERY dedicated to finding the right childe, a Lasombra would probably have followed a prospect into a warzone. (And given the enemy artillery his coordinates)
A bit of a stretch though. (Hurray for tiredness!)

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 05:19 PM
Thinking about it . . . He could have killed a soldier and stole the uniform. IDK

My basic concept was a hippie who was drafted. The details are sketchy

Froogleyboy
2009-08-05, 05:29 PM
I just had a thought! I could just use my freebie points!

satorian
2009-08-05, 10:38 PM
I just had a thought! I could just use my freebie points!

Um, does that make sense to you, because it doesn't to me... I mean, I remember what freebie points are, but I don't think "back story with holes in it" is what they're for. I think maybe you should read the whole book. The setting matters far more than the mechanics in this game. Get the setting. Then get the mechanics. Then ask for help. I really don't mean to be a jerk, but until you do that, you won't be able to make a serviceable VTM character.

Also, I won't get into it here too much, but it seems you are going a political direction with your character. Vampire isn't the game for American politics. Vamps are kinda supposed to be above such concerns as North-South Hippie-Army divides. Just doesn't work with the setting.

Dixieboy
2009-08-06, 04:34 AM
Also, I won't get into it here too much, but it seems you are going a political direction with your character. Vampire isn't the game for American politics. Vamps are kinda supposed to be above such concerns as North-South Hippie-Army divides. Just doesn't work with the setting.

See, I mostly agree with you, if not for one thing.
The Brujah.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-06, 10:52 AM
I meeeeeant using the freebie points to get the Protean :smallmad:

OverdrivePrime
2009-08-06, 11:26 AM
My Character is a city slicker

I played a social Gangrel very successfully in a Chicago chronicle. That was before we knew about the City Gangrel, but I probably would have kept him the same just because I found great uses for Animalism, Protean and Fortitude within the city. If I recall, I had Social primary, physical secondary and mental tertiary, but swiftly bumped the mental stats up with freebies and exp.

Animalism is a really handy discipline once you get into the higher levels of it. Having control over someone's beast is incredibly useful. And stacks of Fortitude and Protean never hurt anyone. Well 'cept the poor saps on the other side of you in a fight...

Narazil
2009-08-06, 11:51 AM
I meeeeeant using the freebie points to get the Protean :smallmad:
If I was the ST, I'd expect a damn good reason for someone to just buy a clan discipline.
Protean's probably not the hardest to get, but only two clans have real access to it, why would they spoil it by teaching it to others?

And, to the whole politics thing:
Vampires are kinda everywhere, and ghouls are even more places. I've played political Vampire games, and they're great fun. I'll go as far as to say that they're more in the spirit of Vampire than hack and slash.

Vampire's good at most things, actually. You can go hack and slash, politics and intrique, mystic and mythical, ect.

comicshorse
2009-08-06, 06:20 PM
I think Satorian meant vampires tend to find MORTAL politics beneath them. After all they change so quickly, blink and everybody who was in power has died and been replaced.
Kindred politics is what fascinates.

satorian
2009-08-06, 06:30 PM
I think Satorian meant vampires tend to find MORTAL politics beneath them. After all they change so quickly, blink and everybody who was in power has died and been replaced.
Kindred politics is what fascinates.

Yes. Thanks. Mortal politics only tend to matter to vamps insofar as they are pulling puppet strings in the mortal world to consolidate power in the Kindred world.

Terraoblivion
2009-08-06, 06:39 PM
That is not strictly speaking true, Satorian. Young vampires come with all sorts of baggage from their mortal lives. Political views are among these. So while an elder or even just an ancillae has learned to ignore mortal politics rather than complain about its newfangled ways, it is perfectly reasonable for a neonate to care about mortal politics. It is not like you lose everything human about you the moment you become a vampire, the stability of your political views are up to the player. Other vampires might look at you funny if you care too much about mortal concerns, especially if you aren't Brujah.

Dixieboy
2009-08-06, 06:48 PM
What TerraOblivion said

Doubly for Brujah, who are chosen partly on how passionate they are about a cause as a mortal.
and 1.5'd for toreadors, who are known for having a hard time detaching themselves from the world of mortals. (Which include politics)

Quincunx
2009-08-07, 04:42 AM
The one part Froogleyboy must change, no question, is the site of Embrace. Vampires would not get that close to territory held by foreign vampires, even if they were the nocturnal Jane Fonda. Vietnam ain't India. Move the Embrace stateside or onto an R&R locale. The rest, while extremely shaky (seriously, someone kick me for not seeing Caitiff-with-Protean coming), is up to the individual Storyteller to accept or reject. Just be prepared, when a vampire you try to chat up about mortal blah blah blah yawns and switches the discussion to 'fights which matter', to jump on the proffered plot hook.

Umael
2009-08-07, 12:24 PM
*read*

*read*

*read*

*shakes head*

Honestly... to read this thread, you would think that the only ones who could be passionate about a political cause, mortal or vampire, is a Brujah... or that Gangrel could never be found in the city.

Bull.

Although there is a "stereotype", and it exists for a reason, no one, no vampire fits the stereotype. It's like saying the "average teenager". What's average? More importantly, who's average?

As far as what Clan any particular vampire, that is determined by the Clan of the Sire (barring weird things like Bloodlines - but still pretty much out of the control of the vampire-to-be). Why must your young punk, rebel-rouser, be a Brujah? Embrace him with the blood of a Malkavian, and you get... a Malkavian. Use a Toreador, and you get... a Toreador.

You are going to find more young punk, rebel-rousers, among the ranks of the Brujah than among the Tremere, but you can STILL find them among the Tremere. It's like asking if there is a Kenyan in North Dakota - a little unusal, but not impossible.

There are a couple of things that define the vampire you play:

#1 - Individuals.
Before anything else, a vampire is an individual, a person, with thoughts, feelings, and a history. A hippie drafted into the Vietnam War is perfectly fine, because it happened. What's important is figuring out how things worked out then - did the Vietnam War happen in the game world pretty much the same way it did in the real world? Were hippies treated the same? Were POWs treated the same?

#2 - Vampires.
Brujah, Gangrel, Caitiff... they are all vampires. Blood-sucking creatures of the night, spawn of the devil, misunderstood and tragic figures, whatever you call them... they are vampires. They were once human, but now they aren't. They might recall their time as a mortal fondly, wistfully, regretably, or they might rejoice that they are actually freed from their existence into a better one. They are separated from what they once were and it does impact them. No matter, they are still vampires, and if they don't feed on blood, they will go mad with hungry. If they are shown the sunlight, they will burn. The biological need to procreate is no longer there, and while they might enjoy various passions still, things like a leisure romp in the sheets just doesn't have the same appeal. Other things are gone as well, such as the taste of a smoothie on hot summer day or the simple pleasure of listen to a child laugh.

You might argue the point, as a vampire with the Eat Food Merit might actually be able to enjoy a hot fudge sundae, but by and large, many of the pleasures given to a mortal are lost to the vampire. Even the myriad pangs and woes of life, of living and growing up and growing old and dying, are lost, leaving many vampires trapped in ennui and stasis, although this is more a problem with the older vampires than the younger ones.

#3 - Age.
As I pointed out, the older vampires are further from what they were, human, than a younger vampire. A younger vampire who has only been around a few decades still remembers many details of his or her time as a mortal. Vampires younger than 100 years (as a vampire) are called neonates, the "teenagers" of vampiric society. They don't understand the rules that have been established over the centuries, they are full of mortal notions and ideas, quick to take risk, their power and influence able to rise... if it wasn't for the older, established vampires pushing them down. Even between vampires of enemy Sects (Sabbat and Camarilla), two elder vampires who share a history that predates the formation of the Sabbat or the Camarilla will have more in common than two vampires, one elder and one neonate, who are both members of the same Sect.

#4 - Clan, and a distant fourth it is.
While it is true that there is a hatred between Clan Brujah and Clan Ventrue, it is not a hatred that is an automatic switch. It would be like saying that all English hate all French, or vice versa - i.e., simply not true. What makes Clan distinct and defines the vampire is not the history, or the Clan Disciplines, but the disadvantage, the Clan Weakness. A vampire can start its existence with no knowledge of its Clan's history, no experience to discover its Disciplines, but it will know its Clan's Weakness. All Nosferatu are ugly, all Brujah have a short-fuse, all Malkavians are insane. No ifs, ands, or buts. All of them suffer the same flaw.

It is possibly this, the Clan Achilles's Heel, that brings the vampires together, and gives them a common history. Strangers who have suffered a recent and similar life-alterating event and bond over that fact - car accident victims in wheelchairs, alcoholics in a support group, parents mourning the loss of a child. That these people, once together, should have a history, is just a part of psychology, a story about how the crazy ones got together and pulled a prank on the ugly ones. Not all the crazy ones got in on it and not all the ugly ones got upset about it, but some did on both sides.


Finally - Froogleboy - regarding your vampire -
the hippie in Vietnam would be fine in my campaign, although if I was using the Kuei-jin (Kindred of the East), you would have to come up with a really good reason why a Cainite would even be in Vietnam (Kuei-jin territory) in the first place, let alone there long enough to Embrace your character. Also, your character would have to have a good reason why he survived while in hostile territory.

As an alternative, your PC could have been Embraced in South America during a secret mission. Just because the US was involved in the Vietnam War doesn't mean that all of its military was over there. Your character could have even served in Vietnam, just wasn't Embraced there.

Regarding your Clan - Caitiff is okay, but you should put a little more thought into it. Having Protean is actually okay for a Caitiff, given that Cain himself was a Caitiff and he developed Protean as one of the natural vampiric Disciplines (see The Book of Nod - maybe hard to get your hands on a copy, but yes, Protean is NOT a restricted Discipline, despite what many people on this forum have said otherwise). I should point out that "that's what vampires do" is hardly a good reason for picking your Disciplines. All of the classic vampiric Disciplines are "good" ones to pick up - Animalism, Auspex, Celerity, Dominate, Obfuscate, Potence, Presence, and Protean. You can find plenty of vampire stories about vampires exhibiting these abilities, some more than others.

jeek
2009-08-07, 03:09 PM
.... or someone who would fit into the Mafia (Ventrue)?...

Um....Giovanni?

Set
2009-08-07, 05:53 PM
Don't sweat the Cainite in Kuei-Jin territory schtick. Vietnam had a plethora of US and Soviet individuals running all over SE Asia, and there were Kindred among them. The Tremere even had a *Chantry* smack dab in the middle of Kuei-jin territory, and it's only quite recently that the eastern Kindred have gotten their crap together and started kicking the westerners out.

Assume that your Caitiff got out before running into a Kuei-jin, or, only knows them as the boogeymen that destroyed some other western vampire of his acquaintance and helped him decide that leaving that part of the world was a good thing.

Protean is by no means a restricted Discipline.

The only Camarilla Discipline that could get you in trouble is Thaumaturgy.

Umael
2009-08-07, 06:40 PM
1) No Kuei-jin. No problem.
2) The Kuei-jin in the area just got their hides trashed by one of the Yama Kings. They aren't interested in picking fights, just in licking their wounds.
3) Internal conflict weakens the Kuei-jin in the area. Similar to #2.
4) The Great Leap West. The Caitiff Sire was part of a vanguard of vampires sent to take territory in Vietnam.
5) Exile. The Caitiff was sent to Vietnam as a form of political punishment for something he either did or (more likely) was accused of doing.
6) Escape! The ignorant Caitiff just wanted to get away! An obliging Brujah arranged for it, failing to mention just how dangerous Vietnam could be.
7) Challenge! For the thrill, for the risk, for the insanity of it, the Caitiff went to Vietnam.
8) Patriotism. Although not a mortal, the Caitiff felt feelings of loyalty towards his country and went to mix things up with the mortal world. See also #7, the part about insanity.
9) Amusement. One of the Kuei-jin in the area, possibly being manipulated by the Yama Kings, decides to toy with the Caitiff, giving the Caitiff a few years of torment.
10) Politics. Rival Kuei-jin factions make use of the Caitiff as a political point - someone has to clean up the mess, but no one wants to be the janitor and thinks someone else has to do it.
11) Family. The Caitiff, as a mortal of Asian descent and recently turned, returns to Asia, where the Caitiff's ancestor, a Kuei-jin, offers shelter.

archon_huskie
2009-08-09, 04:58 PM
I meeeeeant using the freebie points to get the Protean :smallmad:

It is perfectly within the rules for a Catiff to have Protean as an in-clan discipline. It could be that his sire was a Gangrel, but the curse of the clan did not pass to him, thus he is a Catiff.

On the plus side, he would not have to deal with the negative side of being Catiff because he could make his eyes glow when asked what his clan was. "Oh Gangrel," they say; though they do wonder why he does not act like the other Gangrel hmmmm....

Good disciplines for Catiff to take are Fortitude, Potence, and Presence. None of these disciplines require the expenditure of blood.

archon_huskie
2009-08-09, 05:32 PM
I played a social Gangrel very successfully in a Chicago chronicle. That was before we knew about the City Gangrel, but I probably would have kept him the same just because I found great uses for Animalism, Protean and Fortitude within the city. If I recall, I had Social primary, physical secondary and mental tertiary, but swiftly bumped the mental stats up with freebies and exp.

Animalism is a really handy discipline once you get into the higher levels of it. Having control over someone's beast is incredibly useful. And stacks of Fortitude and Protean never hurt anyone. Well 'cept the poor saps on the other side of you in a fight...

Where you the Prince in Chicago: Dark Requiem?

comicshorse
2009-08-09, 07:35 PM
On the plus side, he would not have to deal with the negative side of being Catiff because he could make his eyes glow when asked what his clan was. "Oh Gangrel," they say

Apart from not knowing anything about his clan or their history or protocol. Or knowing his Sire or Grand-Sire. Or pretty much not knowing about Kindred society in general.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-09, 09:02 PM
If I'm a caitiff and I took 3 points in Mentor and 2 points in status, could I be safe amongst the vampire society

Woot Spitum
2009-08-09, 09:58 PM
If I'm a caitiff and I took 3 points in Mentor and 2 points in status, could I be safe amongst the vampire society

I don't think you could really take any dots in status without spending a significant amount of time working within vampire society. Mentor would only work if your storyteller is willing to write up a character to act as your mentor.

comicshorse
2009-08-09, 10:10 PM
If I'm a caitiff and I took 3 points in Mentor and 2 points in status, could I be safe amongst the vampire society

Definitely SAFER. The Caitiff stain is always going to be there for those who believe you are a sign of the End Days and will be always a social stigma ( as you have Status 2 you can bet lower Status Kindred will use your Caitiff nature to stain your reputation). However the fact you have a fairly impressive Mentor and have made a Mark in Kindred society is going to give most of the casual predators good reason to go find an easier mark.
However the Mentor and Status is something you are going to have to work out with your G.M.. Who is your Mentor and why is this experienced Kindred investing so much time with your character ? How has such a young kindred as yourself garnered so much Status so soon ?
This definitely calls for a very strong backstory.

archon_huskie
2009-08-09, 10:50 PM
Right, but would the other clans know that much about Clan Gangrel for that to matter? This trick wouldn't work if he tried it with clan Ventrue, Toreador, or Brujah even. But it would work for a little while with the Gangrel.

And you would be safe with three points of mentor and 2 of status. Also don't worry too much about the background stuff people are pulling out. Your ST may not use it.

kestrel404
2009-08-10, 10:00 AM
I honestly don't see any reason why Froogle's choosing one clan over for their discipline choices should be so tough. I mean, if he wanted to be a rogue Tremere, that would be one thing, but membership in a clan is equal parts headache and helpful.

Froogleboy: Choose a clan. Stick with it. Pick one you like for whatever reason. Go ahead and keep your backstory, that can be integrated in with a bit of creativity. From what I've heard so far, you're only going to have one hitch to really explain: Why didn't your sire bring you into Vamp society?

Because from what you've said, they Sired you then abandoned you (perhaps after teaching you the absolute basics). Forget being uncommon, in Camarilla society that's tantamount to suicide (for the Vamp that sired you)! One of the laws of the Camarilla (and while they don't have a lot, all their laws carry the death penalty if broken) is that you don't create a vampire without permission, and once you do create one you teach it what it needs to survive (this includes things like politics and stealth within mortal society). Because until the local vamp leader says otherwise, any vamp you make is your responsibility, and if THEY break the law then you've broken it too.

So: The interesting bit of your backstory to me is the story of your sire. Why did they make you. Not just the spur-of-the-moment, this guy was gonna die otherwise. That's not a good enough reason for 99% of vamps. Why did they then leave you? Did you have history with him/her? Did they have a good reason to leave you without protection? Were they a part of Vampire society at all?

You don't even need to answer these questions. You could easily say: I don't know. But TELL your storyteller that you don't know the reasons, because every one of those questions screams 'plot hook' and can add to the fun of the game.

Get the backstory for the game out of the way, and then move on.

Also, as far as choosing a clan, what other abilities (aside from Protean) were you interested in? Considdering you've got a bunch of people following you voluntarily from country to country, I would suggest presence. And with your 'hippie leanings', you might want it for the nonviolent solutions to problems it presents. The 'mind control' discipline allows similar non-violent options, but won't work on most vamps (especially NPC vamps). Potence makes a nice combo with Protean 2. Celerity is considdered by many to be the 'I win' power. (Note, Toreador get Celerity and Presence, as well as Auspex, the ultimate 'superspy/detective' power, so might make a good choice for you if your buying protean with bonus points.)

As for the concerns about where you get protean, honestly, you can learn disciplines outside your primaries from any vampire who's blood you've tasted - meaning that if you GET INTO A FIGHT with a gangrel (any gangrel) and survive, you can arguably learn protean.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 10:12 AM
I'm trying to choose a clan but I cannot decide. I like Venture but I don't wana be too fancy. I like Gangrel but if I'm a part of a clan, I wana be apart of vampire society. I like the Brujah but they seem to over-done.

Gnaeus
2009-08-10, 11:00 AM
In a standard, mostly camarilla city...

I think that the easiest 3 clans to play for new players are Brujah, Gangrel, and Malkavian. They all get decent to good discipline packages, they are full clans, so no one picks on them too much, and because of their clan outlook, they are usually given a little bit of slack. No one expects a young member of these clans to be polished and politically astute, and many princes avoid regularly smiting them because they fear the backlash from their elders. Obviously, this depends on the prince.

Ventrue, Toreador and Nosferatu are the next step up. You still have the protection of being in a full clan, but other vampires will assume that you have been fully trained by your sire, and react accordingly. If you haven't played before, at least read the books well before trying these. You probably should do what your sire says, but if you don't, you are way more likely to get away with it than in more organized clans.

Caitiff and the unaligned clans would be next. People are likely to discriminate against you, including your own party members. You have no defense from the system, and may be killed on a pretext. The unaligned clans usually try to keep their members from being pointlessly slaughtered, but if you mess up there is nothing to keep the prince from killing you as an annoyance or making you his bitch.

Tremere should be avoided by new players. The reaction of any other clan ranges from fear and distrust to fear and hatred. They usually have a bunch of internal rules to follow, including a strict hierarchy. If you go rogue, you pretty much die. If you mess up, your own clan usually punishes you in a way that will take you out of play (Stupid apprentice! You are confined to chantry for the next 10 years!). Finally, lots of people think that they are D20 wizards, and that play style can get you staked very quickly.

NPCMook
2009-08-10, 11:07 AM
I'm trying to choose a clan but I cannot decide. I like Venture but I don't wana be too fancy. I like Gangrel but if I'm a part of a clan, I wana be apart of vampire society. I like the Brujah but they seem to over-done.

MALKAVIAN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkavian)

Play a character like Deadpool, break the 4th wall in the game!

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 11:12 AM
I think I'll go with Malkavian. He saw some things in Vietnam that messed with him, when he arrived back home from his tour of duty a beautiful woman approached him in a bar. She bought him dinner but only pocked at her salad all night. After a few drinks she brought him back to her place where she embraced him. Every day he longs to join his human family once again but his sire has explained to him that he would kill them. He believes that he is a monster but hopes one day he could one day rejoin the humans

comicshorse
2009-08-10, 11:23 AM
As for the concerns about where you get protean, honestly, you can learn disciplines outside your primaries from any vampire who's blood you've tasted - meaning that if you GET INTO A FIGHT with a gangrel (any gangrel) and survive, you can arguably learn protean.

Really. Not to be critical but where does it say that. Cause I've never know any ST who used that rule.
Usually to learn a none Clan discipline requires teaching by somebody who has that Discipline and therefore the paying of Prestation

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 11:50 AM
I'm still thinking about Caitiff. I'm downloading "Guide to anarchs" right now. An important figure in the Vampire society saw that I have great potential and thought that he would benefit from me at his side and thus he watches over me, giving me help when needed

Umael
2009-08-10, 11:58 AM
Really. Not to be critical but where does it say that. Cause I've never know any ST who used that rule.
Usually to learn a none Clan discipline requires teaching by somebody who has that Discipline and therefore the paying of Prestation

I don't recall the name of the book, but it discussed the Thin-Blooded (also taked about ghouls too). Although it might have gone the other way...

In the book, a Malkavian did some experiments on teaching others Disciplines, using a control group (the teaching vampire didn't have the Discipline in-Clan) and two experimental groups. One of the groups was given both, the blood of the vampire teaching it AND having the vampire teaching the Discipline actually know it in-Clan.

I'm not sure what the middle group had though. The vampire teaching know the Discipline, but it was Out-of-Clan... the vampire teaching had the Discipline In-Clan but didn't give the subject blood... don't recall.

At any rate, without the blood to reference and make sure, I would rule against the whole "I-was-attacked-so-I-adapted" line of thought and would allow something more... cooperative.

NPCMook
2009-08-10, 12:13 PM
Just off-topic a bit, I play VTES, and I'm running a deck of Baali Vampires... anyways; Does anyone know what book Diamoinon is in? I checked the Baali Clanbook, but they only have the Advanced powers from it... I'd like to see what dot 1-5 does...

Edit: Also where might I find Gargoyles, I've read on Wikipedia that they are apparently playable... or did I miss read something x.x

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 12:20 PM
Just off-topic a bit, I play VTES, and I'm running a deck of Baali Vampires... anyways; Does anyone know what book Diamoinon is in? I checked the Baali Clanbook, but they only have the Advanced powers from it... I'd like to see what dot 1-5 does...

Edit: Also where might I find Gargoyles, I've read on Wikipedia that they are apparently playable... or did I miss read something x.x

I think its a bloodline

Fax Celestis
2009-08-10, 12:21 PM
I'm still thinking about Caitiff. I'm downloading "Guide to anarchs" right now. An important figure in the Vampire society saw that I have great potential and thought that he would benefit from me at his side and thus he watches over me, giving me help when needed

DO NOT PLAY A CAITIFF

Seriously, you will get shunned, abused, exploited, and otherwise run through the grinder.

Semidi
2009-08-10, 12:28 PM
Edit: Also where might I find Gargoyles, I've read on Wikipedia that they are apparently playable... or did I miss read something x.x

Tremere (revised) book I think.

Also, I would not play Malkavian if you do not have a bit of experience with V:tM. They are extremely easy to play badly.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 12:29 PM
*Sigh* Everytime I make a character people hate it.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-10, 12:32 PM
*Sigh* Everytime I make a character people hate it.

Don't get me wrong. Caitiff can be good characters. But the way the world of oWoD is set up, being a caitiff is like being Jewish in Germany in 1940.

NPCMook
2009-08-10, 12:34 PM
Its not that people hate it, its just a Caitiff is a risk. You can of course take mentor who is of another clan, and simply say he trained you in a different one of his Clan's Disciplines. Of course, you would have to spend your freebie points to gain the new Discipline of your choice.

@Semidi: Do you mean Hard as in Role-play? Or hard crunch wise? My first V:TM character was a Mute Malkav who had a Curmudgeon Nature.

Umael
2009-08-10, 12:38 PM
DO NOT PLAY A CAITIFF

Seriously, you will get shunned, abused, exploited, and otherwise run through the grinder.

Carp on a fishstick!

Let him play what he wants to play!

Seriously!

*deep breath*

Okay... look, I gather that you mean well in advising him not to play a Caitiff, but I have to question your methods. He wants to play a Caitiff, and while yes, there is a definite probability that his character will get "shunned, abused, exploited, and otherwise run through the grinder", he should be made aware of the situation and then allowed to make his decision without any undue pressure.

Remember, the Caitiff doesn't have the Brujah's temper or the Nosferatu's hideous visage. The Caitiff isn't limited in his feeding or in his sanity.

(Well, he can be, but at least he gets freebie points for taking the Flaws...)

Let the social situation be its own "Clan" flaw. Froogleboy's been told. Let him make his own mistakes.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-10, 12:41 PM
Carp on a fishstick!

Let him play what he wants to play!

Oh, he can certainly play what he wants to play. But vampires in the Camarilla have a status system that would make Machiavelli confused, and Caitiff, by their very existence, have no status as they are either thin-blooded, high-generation, or are considered bastards. Most of the time, not having a clan to pay alliance to will get you run out of town or staked out for the sun. Even if you don't get run out of town, merely being a Caitiff makes you the entire domain's whipping boy. Even the Setites spit on you. And honestly, while I would have no qualms about an experienced player playing a Caitiff, playing one as your first character is a recipe for both disaster and a player who will never play again.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 12:51 PM
I've made my character. Tell me if there are any problems with it.

Avery Richards (http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/2256)

Umael
2009-08-10, 12:55 PM
And honestly, while I would have no qualms about an experienced player playing a Caitiff, playing one as your first character is a recipe for both disaster and a player who will never play again.

If he has a good Storyteller, it doesn't matter what Clan he plays, and as a beginning player, he better not have a bad one, or it really won't matter what Clan he plays.

Again, he's been told. Let him decide on his own, he doesn't need pressure.

Cristo Meyers
2009-08-10, 12:55 PM
I've made my character. Tell me if there are any problems with it.

Avery Richards (http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/2256)

Only things I can see:

Drive, as I remember it, is actually only for like "stunt" driving. High speed chases and the like. If that's what you're going for, then more power to you. Otherwise it's prefectly reasonable to assume your character has basic driving skills.

Be prepared to justify having 5 points in the Mentor background. It would certainly explain how you got ahold of Dominate and Protean, though.

I believe Stamina is the attribute used to resist damage. With only a 1 your character is going to bruise like a grape.

I'd also consider increasing Perception and putting at least a dot into Alertness.

Umael
2009-08-10, 12:59 PM
I've made my character. Tell me if there are any problems with it.

Avery Richards (http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/2256)

Abilities are 13/9/5. You are missing a dot on your Skills.

Where are your freebie points?

I thought you were going to go for Mentor 3, Status 2? Why Mentor 5 now?

HolderofSecrets
2009-08-10, 01:17 PM
Ah, V:TM. Its been ages and I miss it. I got a few points of advice.

1. Pick a clan and stick with it. Of note every clan has flaws Caitiff mainly have social unwritten flaws. Strangely I learned from my experience sometimes its the Flaws that can drive a character.

2. Play the character like you want. I suggest going against clan stereo types as that can lead to so much more fun. (I played a Biker Tremere and had loads of fun doing it.)

3. Malky's are hard to play. Prepare to raise and lower your sanity levels if you play them. Don't pick an easy derangement. Had one in our group afraid of shadows and another obsessed with fire proofing yet not afraid of fire as a vampire. Just remember even for the insane Malkies are crazy.

4. Use your flaws as benefits. Be aware of how stringent your GM is to humans paying attention before you pick them. I personally didn't realize how bad Touch of Frost and the gust of wind flaws were supposed to be but I did play them well. The GM liked that I played my flaws even if it would normally of cause larger issues.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 01:21 PM
Abilities are 13/9/5. You are missing a dot on your Skills.

Where are your freebie points?

I thought you were going to go for Mentor 3, Status 2? Why Mentor 5 now?

Caitiffs can't get status

Quincunx
2009-08-10, 01:32 PM
Not-So-Stupid LARP Tricks for Clan Malkavian (http://home.earthlink.net/~esasmor/blacklight/malk2.htm)

Learn them. Love them. As a Caitiff trying to get a toehold, the "Turn Bull into Gold" and "Why Can't We Just Ignore Station, Too?" bits will be useful. Sure you could read up on the other clans (http://home.earthlink.net/~esasmor/blacklight/misc.htm) too, but why bother? :smallbiggrin:

Umael
2009-08-10, 01:34 PM
Caitiffs can't get status

Admittedly, I haven't played in a few years and I don't have my books nearby and I have never played a Caitiff, but...

Where did you get that?

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 01:39 PM
Admittedly, I haven't played in a few years and I don't have my books nearby and I have never played a Caitiff, but...

Where did you get that?

In the core book . . . under "Status"

Fax Celestis
2009-08-10, 01:49 PM
Admittedly, I haven't played in a few years and I don't have my books nearby and I have never played a Caitiff, but...

Where did you get that?

Remember that thing I said about a Machiavellian court system in which Caitiff are excluded? That's part of it.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 02:03 PM
I think I'm gonna alter my concept a bit. Anyone got any ideas (I still wana be a hippie though)

Cristo Meyers
2009-08-10, 02:07 PM
Well, for comedy you could go with a peace-loving hippie Brujah.

fetfet
2009-08-10, 02:47 PM
I'm STing this game, and have been watching this unfold.

My advice is, until you learn the game, stick to a set clan, one that's established, and don't(for the moment) play a Caitiff.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 02:49 PM
Speaking of which Do you have Yahoo messenger?

fetfet
2009-08-10, 03:44 PM
I do not. I've got AIM, MSN, and gChat.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-10, 04:33 PM
Darn, i have none of those

Mark Hall
2009-08-10, 04:47 PM
A) All four are free downloads. Agree on one.
B) Shouldn't this be in PMs?

fetfet
2009-08-10, 04:48 PM
I believe it's already been kind of dicussed. I'll move it there.

comicshorse
2009-08-10, 06:29 PM
Just off-topic a bit, I play VTES, and I'm running a deck of Baali Vampires... anyways; Does anyone know what book Diamoinon is in? I checked the Baali Clanbook, but they only have the Advanced powers from it... I'd like to see what dot 1-5 does...

Edit: Also where might I find Gargoyles, I've read on Wikipedia that they are apparently playable... or did I miss read something x.x


I think you can find Daiminion in the Dark Ages Companion

Gargoyles are playable but I'm damned if I can remember where the rules for them are. I think there are rules for their speciality Discipline in one of the Dark Ages book ( maybe the Storytellers Secrets book) but as these are the brainwashed Tremere puppet Gargoyles its pretty much on what their Clan discipline does and not on playing them as a P.C.


Froggleyboy the character looks good but a bit thin. Did you use all your Freebie points ?

If not I'd recommend putting your Willpower up, it's your best defence against Dominate. And learn some Melee Vampires tend to be unimpressed by guns.

As Umael said this is all friendly advice all that matters is you are happy with the character ( and your ST too )

Froogleyboy
2009-08-12, 10:15 AM
Okay, I've decided to go with Malkavian. But, I can't find the derangements online (lost my jump drvie)

Froogleyboy
2009-08-12, 11:01 AM
Here I give you Avery Hill (http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/2312) (Yes I changed his last name)

Set
2009-08-12, 11:51 AM
Apart from not knowing anything about his clan or their history or protocol. Or knowing his Sire or Grand-Sire. Or pretty much not knowing about Kindred society in general.

So pretty much the average Gangrel, then. Perfect. :) (Or Brujah, or Malkavian. Many members of all three clans care little about 'Kindred society' or their lineage. It could be argued that Nosferatu and Tremere really don't *care* about that stuff either, but keep well-informed about it anyway, for reasons of cold-blooded practicality.)

I mean, the Tremere history is practically a primer on what Kindred society *doesn't* allow. "Yeah, there's stuff that's so terrible that they'll mobilize the whole domain to come kill you if you are even accused of doing it. That's what Tremere did to make us a Clan. Rule number one. Don't get caught. Rule number two. If you do get caught, make sure that you are so darn powerful and useful that you get away with it..."


Usually to learn a none Clan discipline requires teaching by somebody who has that Discipline and therefore the paying of Prestation

Except at character generation, where you can spend your freebie points on any out of Clan Discipline, but are usually expected to explain it in the backstory and get GM approval. The only Camarilla Discipline guaranteed to have uncomfortable in-game repercussions is Thaumaturgy.

Any GM can forbid the spending of freebie points on out of clan disciplines, but that's hardly a rule, and Gangrel (and Brujah, and Malkavians) are some of the clans most likely to end up with un-acknowledged childer (and it's actually sometimes the actual operating procedure for Gangrel Sires, to embrace and then stalk their new Childer, letting them figure things out on their own and only stepping in to clean things up if they majorly screw up, which is just as likely to end in the death of the Childe...), who might proliferate some of their stuff before getting formally inducted into the Clan.

There is no 'Protean Mafia' of Gangrel who run around killing off non-Gangrel who learn Gleam of the Red Eye, after all. Gangrels tend to travel alone, follow their own rules and consider that level of Tremere-like gangsterism to be foolish.

Serpentine
2009-08-12, 11:56 AM
3. Malky's are hard to play. Prepare to raise and lower your sanity levels if you play them. Don't pick an easy derangement. Had one in our group afraid of shadows and another obsessed with fire proofing yet not afraid of fire as a vampire. Just remember even for the insane Malkies are crazy.I played a Malk who had surrealist hallucinations. That acceptable?
Personally, I found the Photographic Memory and other memory thingy more trouble than the derangement... So much writing :smallsigh:

comicshorse
2009-08-12, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
Apart from not knowing anything about his clan or their history or protocol. Or knowing his Sire or Grand-Sire. Or pretty much not knowing about Kindred society in general.
So pretty much the average Gangrel, then.

Debatable, some books suggest this others say that Gangrel are actually very proud of the deeds of their ancestors and the Traditions of their clans. There are several refrences to Gangrel Clan meetings where business is discussed and the epics of their lineage told. They may be less formal about these things then the other clans but they'd have a pretty boring existence if they never meet up with their clan mates.


Except at character generation, where you can spend your freebie points on any out of Clan Discipline, but are usually expected to explain it in the backstory and get GM approval.

Agreed. My point really was that getting out of Clan Disciplines isn't automatic, as long as its expalined in your backstory to your ST satisfaction its good


There is no 'Protean Mafia' of Gangrel who run around killing off non-Gangrel who learn Gleam of the Red Eye, after all.

Yes but its not a bad idea. Obviously not some huge, well-organized conspiracy ( as pointed out Gangrel don't really go in for those) but maybe an old-fashioned Elder and his Childer and a few allies determined to keep the sacred gift of their Founder to his children. Hmmmm I think I'm going to have to steal that idea

MickJay
2009-08-12, 12:53 PM
I think you still didn't use up freebie points, plus I'd definitely pick a few flaws and merits to shape the character more. [you do know you have 15 freebie points to spend on top of the initial dots? :smallwink: ]

Cristo Meyers
2009-08-12, 12:58 PM
Okay, I've decided to go with Malkavian. But, I can't find the derangements online (lost my jump drvie)



It's basically your standard set of derangements: schitzophrenia, megalomania, I think there are some phobias...

I you ask me, the easiest one to play would be Fugue. Fugue is where your character goes into a fugue state and the Storyteller takes control of him for a while. Your character won't remember what happened during the fugue, it'll be like he just fell asleep and woke up a few hours later.

Basically, you'd be playing an otherwise normal (well, as normal as Malkavians can be) guy that occasionally zones out and doesn't remember what happened when he does.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-12, 01:07 PM
I was thinking maybe flashbacks and the like because he saw some bad stuff in Nam

MickJay
2009-08-12, 01:15 PM
Malks can be played in very different styles, you can go with an utter nutcase who smells colours, sees sounds and babbles incoherently all the time, thinks he's his own mother, runs away when someone says "lamp" and either laughs or cries all the time - or play a fairly normal character who loses his composure in specific circumstances, and is perhaps somewhat eccentric beside that. Now, a completely crazy Malkavian can be scary, entertaining, cheesy, insulting, annoying or all of the above - just make sure that you're not disrupting the actual game too much and you're adding to fun rather than ruining it for others. It's extra risky if one of the other players has someone in family or among friends who's suffering from a mental disorder, they might not be amused, especially if you'd be roleplaying the illness in a particularly bad/offensive way.

That said, roleplaying a Malkie can be really entertaining, especially if you like sowing chaos and confusion, while enjoying an (unwritten) privilege of having your "pranks" being tolerated by the vampire society (to a degree, at least).

Cristo Meyers
2009-08-12, 01:17 PM
I was thinking maybe flashbacks and the like because he saw some bad stuff in Nam

I don't know the exact derangements anymore, hallucinatory dementia might be on there. You may as well work out something with your Storyteller for this one rather than trying to go strictly by the book.

Mark Hall
2009-08-12, 03:04 PM
I've threatened my storyteller that, if my character dies, I'm playing a Malk with Thamauturgy, the Path of Flames, and pyromania... with one dot of Self Control and 5 in Courage and 10 in Willpower.

I will make the city burn.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-12, 06:55 PM
I've threatened my storyteller that, if my character dies, I'm playing a Malk with Thamauturgy, the Path of Flames, and pyromania... with one dot of Self Control and 5 in Courage and 10 in Willpower.

I will make the city burn.

0-e HOLY CRAP

NPCMook
2009-08-12, 07:13 PM
I think you can find Daiminion in the Dark Ages Companion

Gargoyles are playable but I'm damned if I can remember where the rules for them are. I think there are rules for their speciality Discipline in one of the Dark Ages book ( maybe the Storytellers Secrets book) but as these are the brainwashed Tremere puppet Gargoyles its pretty much on what their Clan discipline does and not on playing them as a P.C.


Froggleyboy the character looks good but a bit thin. Did you use all your Freebie points ?

If not I'd recommend putting your Willpower up, it's your best defence against Dominate. And learn some Melee Vampires tend to be unimpressed by guns.

As Umael said this is all friendly advice all that matters is you are happy with the character ( and your ST too )

I found Gargoyles, they are in Guide to the Camarilla

Froogleyboy
2009-08-12, 07:30 PM
Where could i find the rules on Ghouls?

Mark Hall
2009-08-12, 08:12 PM
The Black Dog Game Factory source book "Ghouls".

Black Dog is, for those not in the know, White Wolf's "Mature" imprint (read "The stuff so foxtrotted in the head that we don't want our normal name on it"). They produced things like Ghouls, and the lovely game HoL.

Terraoblivion
2009-08-12, 08:40 PM
I am pretty sure you should use past tense to describe Black Dog. At least i believe it was killed along with the old World of Darkness where the name came from. And there was some really nasty stuff under that imprint to say the least.

comicshorse
2009-08-12, 09:40 PM
The Black Dog Game Factory source book "Ghouls".


Unless you're planning to play a Ghoul that book is probably overkill. If you want to know what ghouls are like from the point of view of a Vampire then that information should be somewhere in any of the iterations of the main rules

In general all you need to know is : (1) Ghouls are mortals who have been feed a point of Vampire blood
(2) This makes them immortal provided they recieve new blood every month
(3) If you feed the same ghoul three times he will become Blood Bound to you ( as per the rules for blood bonding)
(4) Ghouls get a point of Disciplines, almost always Potence. ( Really old ghouls may learn more points of Disciplines but unless you're ghoul is really old don't worry about it)