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Silverscale
2010-05-09, 05:53 PM
@DMofDarkness: You seem determined to make this idea work your way despite the suggestions of people who have been working on this project for the last 8 months. We have made suggestions that allow a district of aberrations fit into Ishka and though you agree with some of them, you have dismissed other out of hand.

Fable Wright
2010-05-09, 05:58 PM
OK, sorry. I'll change that. I don't know much about the project and how it's worked, but I just gave suggestions that I thought would make it work in the game. I defer to your experience.


EDIT: could you tell me which parts exactly were out-of-line dismissals so I know what to cross out and not cross out?

Silverscale
2010-05-09, 08:01 PM
OK, sorry. I'll change that. I don't know much about the project and how it's worked, but I just gave suggestions that I thought would make it work in the game. I defer to your experience.


EDIT: could you tell me which parts exactly were out-of-line dismissals so I know what to cross out and not cross out?

Sorry If my earlier post came across harshly as I said overall it's a good idea, sometimes a can get a little over zealous....gimme a little bit to feed my cat and make some dinner and I'll get back to you on how we can merge your idea seamlessly into the bigger picture that is Ishka.

Silverscale
2010-05-10, 11:19 AM
@DMofDarkness: Ok now about Deepmire, one of the big things that is not working is this idea of secret portals....we already have them, they are controled by The Alliance which is also who would be in control of the Black Market. This nothion that The Eyes can be bribed to ignore the portals is unnecessary, especially that the bribe would be double that of a dragon's hoard....in Ishka, a Dragon's hoard is rather large indeed since the twin dragon's all but have a monopoly on the stock market.

How about this modification of my earlier post? Edits in blue
District: DeepMire
Other names: Aberration City, Deep Lake, Undercity
Police Force: Alliance Mercenaries
Description: Built around a massive underground lake that was formed when one of the many tunnels was dug too close to the bottom of The Rowalaz River. The breech was sealed leaving behind a large area of tunnel flooded. The resulting underground lake attracted a number of Aboleths. Once they took up residence, other aberrations moved into the area yet still maintain their own neighborhoods.
The Alliance has a sugnificant presence in the district and conducts a thriving black market away from the prying eyes of the more Lawfully minded folk who don't usually dare to venture down to Undercity. There are many Alliance controlled Portals that lead in and out of DeepMire. One of the main connections between Deepmire and the upper layers of Ishka is through Hedon, however one has to be brave enough to go all the way to the bottom of Hedon before they can reach DeepMire

Also I like your "Cave-touched" although the name could use some work.

BRC
2010-05-10, 01:39 PM
So Deepmire is alliance controlled and connects with Ishka proper Via alliance holes. I guess that works.

How aware is Ishka Proper of Deepmire, if it's that big then you'd have to have some contact. Does MI know what it is but not where? Do Alliance members regularly head there, or is it, like Ravensholm, one of the last refuges for desperate criminals fleeing the Law.

Owrtho
2010-05-10, 03:01 PM
I expect the following about it.

Ishka proper tends to know about it, but few actually go there. The MI not only knows of and where it is but will travel there on occasion in attempts to stop Alliance members. There are some more publicly accessible portals to Deepmire and other parts of the city, but they tend to be heavily guarded by MI. The reason has to do with why the district is so attractive to the Alliance. In a place run by aberrations with such varying customs and necessities, it is not only possible but easy to traffic illegal goods and run illegal businesses right out in the open and avoid detection. The aberrations tend not to see much issue with it, and most outsiders can find it all but impossible to tell the standard practices of the aberrations from the black market. This is aided by the many legal entrepreneurs who have realized the profit to be had by doing business with aberrations providing them with things that would be difficult for them to obtain themselves from the rest of Ishka due to their appearance. For this reason they can charge higher prices and have no extra costs aside from having to put up with the occasional MI search and the surroundings of Deepmire (mind there are also those that sell brains and body parts or other such things obtained through legal methods).
Most people going to Deepmire legally do so through the MI controlled entrances, though it requires a somewhat heavy search. This is because it is quite difficult for the MI to find illegal goods once they have already gotten into Deepmire. There are however a still a good number of people on legal business who choose to par the alliance to use their gates to avoid the hassle of the search (which with some larger shipments can take a few hours).
Alliance members travel to Deepmire much more frequently than Ravenshome (often to do business or just lay low for a day or two), but when it comes to fleeing for more major crimes, it is better to hide in Ravenshome. Mainly as the MI is known to do raids for a sufficiently wanted criminal and if they do so it can be hard to hide (for while it may be easy to hide things from a general search in Deepmire, it can be much harder to hide something that is being specifically searched for, particularly when it is yourself). Ravenshome however is free of that risk, but has somewhat more notable ones (if you can't figure out what they are yourself, then look back at some of the stuff on it).

Owrtho

ForzaFiori
2010-05-10, 03:03 PM
I would assume most people know it's there, but it would be like the deepest parts of Hedon, or the Drow city. You know its there, but no one really goes there unless they belong there. They probably don't know the full scope of it either. They might think that it's just one little place beneath Hedon, rather than the huge web of tunnels it apparently is. Obviously, the Alliance and most aberrations would know of it.

Fable Wright
2010-05-10, 04:23 PM
Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for. The thing is, people know that it exists, and they know what aberrations do. This being the case, few (sane) people go down there willingly, and so have no clue the extent of the area. Most people think that it's a small cave with a nearby lake where people have furtive meetings and aberrations lurk in the shadows, when in actuality it is a huge, sprawling bazaar where the freakish meet the freakier, and one can get anything they want for a price. The districts of (most) of the aberrations are grand (and disturbing for most people) models of the cities from whence they came, each with it's district police force, each one with a different set of rules (the main one being, unless you're one of us, you belong to us (for dinner or work)). For a name, how about Herald of the Deepmasters?

Silverscale
2010-05-10, 05:50 PM
@DMofDarkness: It's not so much a collection of Aberration Cities, Ishka is the city, it's a large collection of neighborhoods. Think about Chinatown and Little Italy in NYC, they are not cities in and of themselves just neighborhoods where Chinese and Italians tend to congregate.

As to the name of the template (Herald of the Deepmasters)....sounds good to me.

Fable Wright
2010-05-10, 06:06 PM
I fixed it for you.

Silverscale
2010-05-10, 09:06 PM
Take a look at this thread http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89675 with particular attention to Lowfolk, Weirded Way, Sialla Danda, and Urban Oasis

Also Take a look at E.M.I.T. Constructs from http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7987650#post7987650

Has anyone taken a look at the threads I linked to earlier?

ForzaFiori
2010-05-10, 10:06 PM
Has anyone taken a look at the threads I linked to earlier?

I just read over them. Pretty cool stuff. I like the Low Folk. I could see alot of them living in Ishka. I get the feeling that any Weirded Ways or Urban Oasii would be stamped out by MI though. Same with most of the constructs.

Silverscale
2010-05-10, 10:57 PM
I've Transplanted the relevant posts below so they're easier to find

Weirded Way

Weirded Way
Colossal Aberration
Hit Dice: 28d8+224 (350 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 20 ft.
Armor Class: 18 (+0 Dex, +16 natural, –8 size), touch 2, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +35/+51
Attack: Bite +27 melee (6d6+14)
Full Attack: Bite + 27 melee (6d6+14) and two slams +25 melee (3d8+7)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, shortcut, swallow whole, tourist trap
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., freeze, resistance to cold 15, electricity 10, fire 10, spell resistance 25, tremorsense 120 ft.
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +11, Will +19
Abilities: Str 39, Dex 11, Con 26, Int 5, Wis 17, Cha 11
Skills: Hide +5, Listen +10, Spot +10
Feats: Altertness, Blind-Fight, Diehard, Endurance, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Improved Natural Attack (slam), Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack
Environment: Any urban
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 17
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually neutral
Advancement: 29+ HD (Colossal)
Level Adjustment: —

Tendrils of morning mist glide over the cobblestones to a point in the center of the deserted street, where they sink into the ground. A great blast of warm air pushes the fog away, only for it to begin filling the street again. The pattern repeats itself several times before a massive maw suddenly erupts from the ground. With hide like polished stones, eyes like moonlit puddles, and limbs like pillars, the creature easily surprises its prey before sinking back to street level.

A Weirded Way is an extremely dangerous creature at home in the largest of cities. It lurks, seamlessly disguised as a cobblestone street, while it bends space around itself to ensnare its prey. Lost travelers, drunks, and occasionally even knowledgeable locals find themselves within reach of this creature's omnivorous maw. With a Weirded Way around town, even a single wrong turn can lead to disaster.

Young Weirded Ways find themselves drawn to fledgling towns. Once established, a Way prefers to stay in the same community as long as possible. They will even defend the city against serious threats, sometimes including other Weirded Ways. Eventually each Way finds that its stomach outstrips its host city, and it moves on to busier streets.

Though Weirded Ways are not particularly intelligent and are always hungry, centuries of experience have taught them well. Weirded Ways need little food to simply survive and understand that consuming too many people can draw unwanted attention. As such, most Weirded Ways avoid attacking when not starving and avoid eating prominent citizens. Weirded Ways in the smallest of cities snap up one or two citizens a month, while Weirded Ways in the largest can get away with over one meal a day.

Weirded Ways speak Terran and the most prevalent language of their current host city.

Combat
Weirded ways always prefer to ambush their prey. By making use of its Freeze and Tremorsense abilities, a Weirded Way can avoid detection while maintaining its awareness of anything nearby. Once in melee range, the Way relentlessly attacks, swallowing opponents whenever possible and using Shortcut to drag fleeing combatants back into battle. A Weirded Way's only true fear is an aerial assault, against which it has no method of retaliation.

Freeze (Ex): A Weirded Way can hold itself so still it appears to be a simple street. An observer must succeed on a DC 30 Spot check to notice the Weirded Way is really alive.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Weirded Way must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

Shortcut (Su): Once per round as a immediate action, a Weirded Way can concentrate its space-warping abilities to instantly move a single creature to any valid space within the Way's reach (20 ft.). The target creature must be touching the ground within 120 ft. of the Way in order for Shortcut to affect it.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A Weirded Way can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+7 points of crushing damage plus 2d8 points of acid damage per round from the Way’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 30 points of damage to the Way’s digestive tract (AC 18). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

Tourist Trap (Su): Space around a Weirded Way constantly shifts and twists so as to best draw potential prey into the Way's trap. Any time an intelligent creature fails a Gather Information check within the same city as a Weirded Way, that creature must make a DC 24 Will save or become lost in this region. Such a creature inevitably (within the next 1d10x10 minutes) passes over the Weirded Way's hunting ground. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Lore
Characters with ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering or local) can research Weirded Ways to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including the information from the lower DCs.

DC 38: Weirded Ways are urban monsters that can lure lost travelers into deadly traps.
DC 43: The Weirded Way is an ambush attacker; it remains hidden as a common city street until it its prey is in position. Then it strikes from below, swallowing anything in its path.
DC 48: The hide of a Weirded Way not only looks like stone, but is also nearly as tough. Don't expect cold, fire, electricity, or steel to pierce it.

Plot Hooks
A large city holds a Weirded Way which feeds on a cycle: every four years it goes on a frenzy, eating hundreds of citizens within a one-month span. Nearly four years have passed since the last such event, and the citizens are becoming worried.

An impetuous young Weirded Way has moved in on the established territory of an older Way. Spars between the two have already destroyed several city buildings, and neither shows any sign of leaving just yet.

The addled patriarch of a growing town insists that a Weirded Way – a sign of a large city - is necessary to put his community on the map. As such, he has made it known that he will pay handsomely if anyone manages to attract such a creature to his town.

Sialla Danda

My contribution:

Sialla Danda
Small Fey
HD 6d6+6 (27 hp)
Speed 50 ft. (10 squares); fly 30 ft. (good)
Init: +5
AC 19; touch 19; flat-footed 14 (+5 Dex, +3 circumstance, +1 size)
BAB +3; Grp +3
Attack Surprising touch melee touch +9 (flat-footed + luck drain) or Small rapier +9 (1d4, 18-20/x2)
Full-Attack Stunning touch melee touch +9 (1d4 + stun + luck drain, x2) or Small rapier +9 (1d4, 18-20/x2)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Surprising touch, stunning touch, luck drain, stumble
Special Qualities Impart luck, urban clairsentience, sibling of shadows, spell-like abilities, SR 15, low-light vision, thrive
Saves Fort +3 Ref +10 Will +6
Abilities Str 10, Dex 21, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 18
Skills Appraise +6, Balance +10, Bluff +12, Climb +5, Diplomacy +10, Disguise +10, Escape Artist +11, Gather Information +13, Hide +11, Knowledge (local) +10*, Move Silently +11, Sense Motive +10, Sleight of Hand +14, Tumble +11
Feats Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Combat Reflexes
Environment Any urban
Organization Solitary or family (2-8)
Challenge Rating 6
Treasure Double standard
Alignment Always chaotic (any)
Advancement by character class; Favored Class Bard
Level Adjustment +8

*Racial skill bonus

Sialla danda are descendants of the fey of the natural world, who have adapted to humanity and the urban world.

A sialla stands 4 feet tall and appears as a young adult human might. Sialla have pointed ears, brown or coppery hair and rum-colored eyes. They choose fancy clothing in fashionable (not gaudy) colors, and their mischievous smiles never fully reach their penetrating gazes.

Combat
A sialla danda prefers to start combat with its spell-like abilities, before closing to melee. The sialla tries a stunning touch on the most intimidating opponent, then uses its surprising touch to steal luck and retreat safely. Sialla are preternaturally fast.

Surprising Touch (Su) A sialla's touch attack passes through armor, clothing and the like to touch flesh directly. The unnerving sensation this confers causes the victim to become flat-footed. This effect does not work on creatures that are immune to critical hits.

Stunning Touch (Su) A sialla can extend her touch through her foe's flesh, causing shock and discomfort. Although barely harmful, the distressing sensation created by the sialla stuns her victim for 1d4 rounds (Will save DC 17 half.) The save for this effect is Charisma-based.

Luck Drain (Ex) Sialla danda seem to have some innate control over the flow of fate. On any touch attack a sialla makes, she may choose to steal luck from her victim. This manifests as a -1 luck penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks and saves, and is cumulative to -5. Each time she steals luck, the sialla gains a luck point. Sialla danda cannot retain more than ten luck points. Luck drain is nonmagical and fades one hour after the first draining.

Stumble (Su) Sialla danda use the shadows of their urban environment to their advantage. The sialla may make a trip attempt using a ranged touch on any creature within an area of shadowy illumination that she can see (sialla danda have low-light vision). The sialla and her foe make opposed Dex checks without modifiers for size category, and the defender is unable to make an opposed trip attempt on a success.

Impart Luck (Su) The sialla can channel the luck she has stolen, magically imparting it unto herself or another. She may expend any number of luck points to increase the caster level and save DC of one of her spell-like abilities. Alternately, she may impart up to five luck points into a single creature. Each luck point grants a +1 luck bonus to attack and damage rolls, skill checks and saves. Imparting luck to another is magical and fades one hour after the first infusion.

Sibling of Shadows (Su) Sialla danda are spirits of crowds, of alleys, buildings and evenings. They gain a +3 circumstance bonus to AC while in an area of shadowy illumination. Sialla can only fly in shadowy illumination, or outside after dusk. Sources of bright illumination are reduced in diameter 10' while within sight of a sialla.

Urban Clairsentience (Ex) Sialla danda are masters of the cities in which they reside. They can take 20 on any Gather Information check in their home city, and gain the synergy bonus from Knowledge (local) on top of that. They are also aware of all strangers in their city, and get a +10 racial bonus on Bluff, Disguise and Sense Motive checks related to impersonating a local.

Thrive (Su) Sialla danda have widely varied opinions on the humans they live amongst. However, they are definitively happier around crowds. A sialla danda gains 1 additional hp for every 500 people living in their city.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) At will - alarm, alter self, darkness, detect magic, faerie fire, flare, glitterdust, hypnotism, invisibility, message, minor image. 3/day - deep slumber, deeper darkness, eagle's splendour, hold person. Sialla cast spells as 7th level sorcerers.

Society
Sialla danda are a younger breed of fey that have adapted to coexist with cities. Though some are more ardently malicious than others, most are content to be mischievous but supportive of their crowded homes. Whatever their alignment, no sialla will ever harm a child - often they will actively aid in returning the child to its parents.

Sialla enjoy using their control over luck to favor certain mortals at the expense of others. They have been known to message information to certain mortals, which might be for good or ill. This tendency actually gave rise to their urban legend.

Some sialla help the local law enforcement, weaving alarms and highlighting criminals with faerie fire. Conversely, petty thieves have vanished without a trace, made invisible by a bored sialla.

Generally, sialla prefer to use alter self to better integrate with the crowds. Their humanoid forms retain the striking, rum-colored eyes of their fey shape. Disguised sialla enjoy being the life of the party, and those who can devote time and attention to it often become bards.

It is rare, but of late, turf wars have ignited between rival sialla families in larger cities. Faerie fire in different colors delimits areas of control at night, and civil authorities who believe in the sialla often have difficulty choosing a side to ally with.

Lore

DC 15: A minor bout of bad luck is sometimes blamed on an impish spirit known as "the danda."
DC 20: Invisible fairies called "danda" whisper advice to downtrodden folk.
DC 25: Sialla danda are fey who retrieve lost children.
DC 30: Sialla danda trade in luck.


Lowfolk


The Lowfolk

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
-Emma Lazarus

Lowfolk
Medium Fey
6d6+6 (27 hp)
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares), Climb 30 ft. (6 squares)
Init: +4
AC 18 (+4 Dex, +4 deflection), touch 18, flat-footed 14
BAB +3; Grp +3
Attack Dagger +7 melee (1d4/19-20)
Full-Attack Dagger +7 melee (1d4/19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks spells, spell-like abilities, visage of the downtrodden, below notice
Special Qualities Damage reduction 10/cold iron, low-light vision, Scuttleborn
Saves Fort +7 Ref +13 Will +12
Abilities Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 17
Skills Climb 11, Concentration +10, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist +10, Handle Animal +13, , Hide +12, Listen +12, Move Silently +12, Sense Motive +12, Spot +12, Use Magic Device +12
Feats Combat Casting, Dodge, Weapon Finesse
Environment Urban
Organization Solitary, Huddle (2-4) or Pack (5-10)
Challenge Rating 7
Treasure ½ Standard
Alignment Usually Chaotic Good
Advancement by Character Class; Beguiler
Level Adjustment +7

"Mommy! Mommy!" the little girl yelped, her tiny fingers pointing at a bedraggled woman decked out in rags curled up against the sheltering wall of the Old Courthouse, "there she is! The lady from the park."

Her mother, well dressed with pearls dripping around her neck, looked at where the child pointed, squinting, "Don't be silly Amanda. There's nothing over there but a pile of rags."

That man on a street corner in the torn up coat. That woman, her dress bearing the stains and tears of long use, who sits feeding pigeons. That little playmate of your child’s who is never seen but talked about incessantly. These are the lowfolk, the fey of the cities so populous they can become barren of human contact for those dwelling within.

Lowfolk are the fey of the city, caring for its inhabitants much as a nymph or dryad would look after its woodland pools and groves. Lowfolk deal in subtlety, and keep the city within its domain from becoming too stratified or its peoples divorced from one another. Typically, they remain unseen, but when spotted they appear as a homeless member most common race in a given city; an image which serves as a reminder to the materially minded that their pleasures are not shared by all with whom they live. They can appear to be otherwise when it suits them, using the disguise self an alter self abilites as well as spells to take on the form they desire.

They use their powers to shape events in their urban homes, leading potential future lovers to each other randomly in the night, breaking the wheels of a nobles carriage in the poverty stricken sections of town to make the noble spend time there, pestering a young merchant into giving aid to those they would normally ignore, or even in dire circumstances impersonating a city official to change destructive policies. They have a particular soft spot for children and their Below Notice ability affects only adults. Children are those that can be most shaped to heal a wounded metropolis and a particular lowfolk may spend months or even years in the company of a special child, attempting to impart its values into the next generation of city dwellers.

The number of lowfolk in any given city varies with the size of the metropolis. The bigger the city, the more lowfolk, although there is no hard and fast rule for this ratio.

Although rare, neutral and evil lowfolk have been known to exist. These unpredictable fey can shape a city just as their good counterparts. Those that are neutral tend to be pranksters, causing random mischief and giving a city a sense of the strange and unexpected. Evil lowfolk can tear a city apart, pitting social classes against each other or even against themselves for their own malign amusement.

Lowfolk speek sylvan, common, and whatever languages predominate the cities in which they live.

Combat

Lowfolk typically avoid violence, but have been suspect of being responsible for indirectly instigating riots and uprisings of the poor on some occasions. If a lowfolk is spotted, they will typically attempt to talk to their would-be attacker first, using suggestion to avoid direct conflict. If that fails, they will typically use greater invisibility and attempt to flee.

Spell-Like Abilities
At will- Alter Self, Disguise Self 3/day-Suggestion 1/day—Greater Invisibility, Caster level 7th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Spells
A lowfolk casts spells as a 7th-level Beguiler.

Visage of the Downtrodden (Su)
As a move action, a lowfolk can gaze into the eyes of a creature within 30ft, reminding it that anyone can be brought low by chance. The target creature must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or be effected as if by the spell Crushing Despair for one hour. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Scuttleborn (Su)
A lowfolk adds twice (2x) his Dexterity Modifier as a bonus on all Reflex saving throws. In addition, he also adds his Dexterity Modifier as a bonus to his Will and Fortitude saving throws, and as a deflection bonus to his Armor Class. (The statistics block already reflects these bonuses).

Below Notice (Su)
This ability affects all adult creatures with an intelligence score greater than 4 within 30 feet of a lowfolk. Their eyes slide over a lowfolk as if they were merely a piece of background. Those who look directly at a lowfolk must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or be unable to see or otherwise detect the lowfolk just as if the lowfolk were subject to the spell Superior Invisibility. A character who sucessfully saves against a lowfolks Below Notice is immune to the effect by that particular lowfolk for 24 hours. A lowfolk can suppress or resume this ability as a free action.

The save DC is Charisma-based.

Lowfolk Lore:
Sucessful Knowledge: Local or Knowledge: Nature checks will reveal the following general information about the lowfolk.

DC 10: Many large cities have fey inhabitants. Some of these appear as beggars.

DC 15: Lowfolk appear as beggars but are actually somewhat powerful fey. They look after the city, attempting to harmonize the interactions if its inhabitants. Lowfolk favor the poor, and to look upon one is to be reminded of the sorrow of those who go without.

DC 20: Lowfolk have many powers of illusion and often influence the politics and governing of a city by directing people to specific places at specific times or pretending to be influential people at key moments.

Using Lowfolk in Your Game:

Lowfolk can fit into virtually any setting that has fey creatures and cities. They are not particularly combat oriented monsters, although their access to beguiler spells does make them somewhat competent if they are forced to fight. Mainly though, they are intended to be used as parts of the overall feel of a city and serve as contacts, allies, or crafty and hidden foes of the PCs as appropriate to a particular game.

Urban Oasis

Urban Oasis


http://www.lvks.org/egov/gallery/1121182532269188.jpg


Huge Plant
Hit Dice: 18d8+144 (225 HP)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares); burrow 30 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (-2 Dex, -2 size, +10 natural), touch 4, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+29
Attack: Bite +19 melee (2d8+8); or tendril +17 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Bite +19 melee 2d8+8) and 4 slams +17 melee (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Pollen of peace, spell-like abilities, urban mirage
Special Qualities: DR 10/slashing, immunities, improved grab, plant traits, swallow whole, tremorsense 60 ft., vulnerable to fire, writhing aura
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +6, Will +9
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 6, Con 22, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 24
Skills: Disguise +35*, Hide +19*, Listen +24, Move Silently +19, Spot +24
Feats: Ability Focus (urban mirage), Awesome Blow, Improved Bull Rush, Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Disguise)
Environment: Any urban
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually neutral
Advancement: 19-22 HD (Huge); 23-28 HD (Gargantuan); 29+ HD (Colossal)
Level Adjustment: —

Walking along the lane between rows of various lean-tos and rickety buildings, you spot a sudden empty lot that, inexplicably, has a small fountain with a cherub statue, a few small benches, and lush, beautiful grass with wildflowers in several places. Suddenly, you feel an odd sensation, drawing you to come lie down upon the grass and perhaps take a drink from the fountain.

Like the monstrous fish at the deepest parts of the ocean, some creatures in cities use disguises and other methods to lure prey to them. The urban oasis is one such creature. Relying on inherent magic and other abilities, an oasis is a giant plant that is usually almost entirely underground. The only parts aboveground are leaves, tendrils, and the creature’s gaping maw. Creatures are enticed to walk across the small park they see before them, really a mirage created by the oasis, only to be grabbed by tendrils and swallowed whole.

Combat
An urban oasis usually only “fights” with those creatures it has managed to lure in, and then the fight is only the few rounds it needs to draw the creatures into its gullet. Against other foes, an oasis uses its spell-like abilities to slow down opponents while attempting to grab and feast upon others. Should things look bad for the oasis, it generates a fog cloud of dust and pollen motes and attempts to burrow to freedom.

Immunities: An urban oasis is immune to mind-affection effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, stunning, and critical hits.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an urban mirage must hit a creature of size Medium or smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the opponent in the following round. An urban oasis can also use its improved grab ability on a tendril attack. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold, picks up the opponent, and transfers it to the mouth as a free action, automatically dealing bite damage.

Pollen of Peace (Su): In order to capture its prey, an urban oasis can project pollen spores that force creatures to stop and smell the roses (as it were) or even fall asleep. As a standard action, the urban oasis exudes pollen in a cloud that extends to a 30-foot emanation. Creatures must succeed on a DC 25 Fortitude save or suffer the effects of the calming pollen. The save DC is Constitution-based. The effects of failure are based on HD – creatures of 8 HD or less are effected as if by the deep slumber spell, creatures of 9-12 HD are exhausted for 1d6 rounds, and creatures of more than 12 HD are sickened for 1d3 rounds. All creatures that fail their saves, regardless of HD, take a -2 penalty to Will saves against the urban oasis’s other abilities.

Furthermore, creatures that fail their save must make a DC 26 Will save or be compelled to move towards the urban oasis’s mouth (before falling asleep, if necessary) and to lie down on the “grass” in the area. The save DC for this effect is Charisma-based.

Spell-Like Abilities: at-will – deep slumber (DC 20), fog cloud, ghost sound (DC 17); 3/day – crushing despair (DC 21), entangle (DC 18), hypnotism (DC 18). Caster level is equal to ½ HD. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Swallow Whole (Ex): An urban oasis can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to Large size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of bludgeoning damage plus 1d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the oasis’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out using a light slashing or piercing weapon by dealing 25 points of damage to the shark’s digestive tract (AC 15). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

Urban Mirage (Su): As a manner of attracting prey, an urban oasis disguises itself as a small park, a grassy knoll with a gazebo, or other sort of natural area as would be found within a city. It can, as a standard action at will, disguise itself and its surroundings as if by the mirage arcana spell, though it can disguise itself within the area and the illusion only lasts for a number of rounds equal to the oasis’s Charisma modifier (7 rounds) after it ceases concentrating. Creatures interacting with the area are entitled to a DC 30 Will save (10 + ½ HD + 7 Cha + 2 synergy [Disguise] + 2 Ability Focus) to disbelieve the illusion.

Vulnerable to Fire (Ex): Like many plants, an urban oasis is vulnerable to fire. It takes half again as much damage when subjected to such an attack, and has a -2 penalty on saving throws against Fire effects.

Writhing Aura (Ex): Being an essentially flat plane (above-ground, anyway), creatures may fight atop the urban oasis. However, this poses some problems. The area atop the oasis is difficult terrain and as such prevents opponents from running or charging.

*Skills: An urban oasis has a +8 racial bonus to Hide checks and a +4 racial bonus on Disguise checks. It’s ranks in Disguise also provide a +2 synergy bonus to the DC of its urban mirage ability.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Lore
Characters with ranks in Knowledge (Nature) can learn more about urban oases. When the character makes a skill check, the following lore is revealed, including the information from lower DCs.

{table=head]DC | Result
28 | An urban oasis is a large plant that uses mimicry, illusion, and other natural methods to lure in potential prey. This reveals all Plant traits.
33 | The plant is rather versatile, with the ability to calm foes, draw them in, and even swallow them whole. They even have innate magic that allows them minor hypnotic powers.
38 | Like many plants, an urban oasis is vulnerable to fire and hard to hurt with blunt or pointed weapons, but provides a dangerous battlefield to fight atop.[/table]


Plot Hooks
Children and small pets have begun disappearing all over the city after a massive clean-up program that added several new parks, lots, and open spaces. Local druids suspect an urban oasis, but finding the correct park or empty lot is a large job that requires many volunteers. Leaders hope to curb the deaths before they grow too numerous to cover up.
An evil gnoll druid, banished from a large city, has taken out his frustration by surrounding the outskirts of the city with allied urban oases. Many caravans and merchants have disappeared, and the town council seeks heroes to find out why.


E.M.I.T Construct

A robed figure strolled down the halls of the Silicavale College of Arcana. Construct lab 017b, normally empty of students in the evening, was just ahead. The lamps in the hallway were still on and the general buzz of several conversations was coming from behind the door. There was no doubt that this was the place. He yawned slightly before knocking on the door.
"Hello, I'm here to evaluate your society." he called, as he pushed the door open.
The lab was occupied by several apprentices. Most of them were wearing overalls, a clear sign that they took golem building more seriously than the rest of their studies. One of them looked up and cleared his throat.
"Oh, good evening Professor Ludd."
"Ah, Initiate William Walt, isn't it? In charge of a society already, eh? Take a seat."
"Yes, Professor. But everyone calls me 'Gray', professor.", he mumbled as they sat at the nearest available desk.
Ludd paused for a moment before he remembered that things were always less formal between students and lecturers outside of university hours.
"Very well then, what exactly is this society about. I know you're rather keen on building constructs, but I'm sure you understand we can't have you binding elemental spirits without supervision."
"Oh, that isn't a problem, professor.", Gray said quickly, "Show him, Warrik."
One of the other apprentices, who had up until this moment been staring nervously from the benches as Gray made his pitch stood up and carried a small box over to the table. Ludd looked inside and cocked an eyebrow.
"This...looks like the contents of the dustbins." He even recognised the old clock he threw out that very morning.
"Yes, you see that's the idea. What we do is try to build our constructs from recycled...well I'll show you."
Warrik lifted the delicate (in the sense of a bag held together by string) looking device out of the box and placed it on a table. It proceeded to hum dangerously.
"What we did was use this old enchanted pair of glasses as a sensor...so it can tell when something moves passed that is...", he waved his hand vigorously and the device jerked to life, moving haphazardly towards it, "and we used the clockwork mechanism to make it move...so well it...er"
"Basically we try to control them using simple enchantments...instead of binding elemental spirits to them!", a voice half squeaked, half spluttered from the benches.
"Ye-yes. What Ada said." stammered Warrik, nodding appreciatively to the mousy young girl (who now appeared to be engaged in some sort of contest with him over who could look the most flustered).
Ludd looked at the students for a moment and to their relief, smiled.
"Ah yes, they used to do that in my day. E.M.I.Ts they called 'em."
"Yeah, Entertaining Magical Intellectual Tricks. That's what it stands for...proffesor?"
Ludd chuckled, "If that's what it stands for these days, then."
And with that, he took out a small form, already with his signature, handed it over to them and went on his way as the buzz resumed.

E.M.I.T Construct
Size/Type: Tiny Construct
Hit Dice: 2d10 (11 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 10ft. (2 squares)
Armor Class: 10, touch 10, flat-footed 12 (+2 size, -2 dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-10
Attack: Shunt +1 melee (1d2-3)
Full Attack: Shunt +1 melee (1d2-3)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: Construct Traits, Sensor, Reactor
Saves: Fort 0, Ref -2, Will -4
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 7, Con —, Int —, Wis 2, Cha 10
Skills: Spot (Wis) 5, Hide (Dex) 2, Move Silently (Dex) 2
Feats: Stealthy
Environment: Urban
Organization: Solitary, Expo (2-20),
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: Mundane Alchemical Items only
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: By HD; 2-3 (Tiny), 4-8 (Small)

An E.M.I.T is a simple construct built by hobbyists. They typically consist of whatever resources the builder had lying around (scrap metal, logs, broken and discarded equipment and alchemical items). They are designed to be simpler than golems and other more complicated magical constructs, using simple alchemical and magical principles to guide them rather than binding elemental spirits to control them. For example using shards of metal from old enchanted eyeglasses as sensors, and the remains of a failed attempt at a dancing weapon to provide locomotion. A typical EMIT has a very basic "react and act" pattern of behaviour, making them ideal for certain tasks. In addition to being built by apprentice mages to expand their skills or simply occupy themselves many toymakers employ the technology to improve their wares. An E.M.I.T will follow any orders given to it with the right commands but it is not following any order more complex than simple directions (e.g. Forward 10, Left 90...)

Construct Traits Features
A construct has the following features.


10-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
No good saving throws.
Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the construct has an Intelligence score. However, most constructs are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.


Traits
A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

{TABLE=head]Construct Size Bonus|Hit Points
Fine|—
Diminutive|—
Tiny|—
Small|10
Medium|20
Large|30
Huge|40
Gargantuan|60
Colossal|80 [/TABLE]


No Constitution score.
Low-light vision.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the table.
Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with no armor.
Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.


Sensor EMITs always have some sort of specialised sensor attached to them, this functions in addition to their normal visual and acoustic sensors and gives them some immunity to flanking. The EMIT becomes aware of anything within 20 ft. of itself which sets off the sensor. A sensor can detect one change (e.g. temperature, sound, movement, etc) which grants the EMIT some sort of bonus. Examples of sensors include;


Fire: Set off by any high temperature, granting a +1 bonus to reflex saves against spells, hazards and traps that deal heat damage and a +1 bonus to AC against all heat based weapons.
Cold: As above but with cold based attacks
Movement: The EMIT cannot be flanked or sneak attacked by a creature within 20ft. of it.
Magic: The EMIT reacts to any magical object within 20ft. of itself (not including itself but including other EMITs). Its effective control range (see below) is doubled.
Signal: The EMIT is able to detect when other EMITs have had their sensor tripped. It cannot be flanked unless all other EMITs within 20ft. of it are also flanked and gains a +1 dexterity bonus to its AC for each EMIT in that range


Reactor EMITs typically have some sort of device which reacts when its sensor is tripped. This can replicate the effects of any cantrip (0th level spell) once every hour up to 3 times per day. It will usually target whatever set off its sensor or itself as appropriate (e.g. it could be set to project an illusion whenever something moves within 20ft. of it, or cast chill touch on any source of heat that comes close).

Combat

EMITs are mindless and typically wait until given orders (which can be from anyone who knows how to work them, given the simple nature of the magic that created them) from anyone within 50ft. (or 100ft. if it has a Magic sensor). They will not enter combat (and indeed are of little use) unless directed by manual control. Anyone controlling them can only prompt them to move in a certain direction (the sensor triggers its reactor automatically).

Crafting EMITs

EMITs are created from discarded and broken magical and alchemical items, re-purposed to form a working construct.

The base cost for constructing an EMIT is 100gp, plus 150XP. Adding a reactor costs the same amount as it would to brew a potion of the same spell in gold, plus 50% of that amount in XP.

The HD of the EMIT can be increased at a cost of multiplying the base cost by the amount above to (e.g. a 2HD EMIT costs 100 gp and 150XP, a 3HD EMIT costs 200gp and 300XP, 4HD 300gp and 450XP and so on).

At the DMs discretion, the material costs could be replaced by skill checks or XP to represent the fact that the parts are scavenged rather than bought (a DC of 10 + (5 x [1/100 amount of GP]) or 2XP per GP to represent the time spent scavenging).

Lore
The following can be determined by a Knowledge (Arcana) or Knowledge (Architecture and engineering) check.

{TABLE=head]DC|Lore
12|This is an EMIT. A simple magical construct built by amateurs, hobbyists or mages in training.
17|They are built from discarded magic parts. They can be commanded to move by anyone within a certain distance.
22|They usually have some sort of simple spell which is cast automatically when certain criteria are met.[/TABLE]

Plot Hooks

The PCs accidentally throw out an important magical item, which ends up being used in an EMIT by a young wizard. They must track him down before other parties interested in obtaining the item do.
The PCs are asked to find a missing EMIT builder. He seems to have left clues in the form of a trail of EMITs he's built everywhere he goes.
A massive swarm of EMITs are being guided through a city, causing disruption by blocking roads and even injuring a few people who were caught in the "stamped". The PCs are hired to find the one responsible and put a stop to it.

Owrtho
2010-05-10, 11:29 PM
The oasis wouldn't work, but I could see the others being in Ishka (the main issue with the oasis is that first, it lives under ground, which doesn't work with most of Ishka, and second, most people would likely find it rather odd to see a park in the middle of the city with no sunlight). The weirded ways would likely be somewhat small in number, but not be unheard of (for one thing they keep each other away). I could even see some that have formed some sort of agreement with a small district they live in where they protect it from criminals and in exchange it can eat the criminals and they don't have people come kill it and overlook the occasional disappearing traveler, even if he 'vanishes' right in front of them (it also avoids eating most of the citizens).

Anyway, they seem good.

Owrtho

TheLonelyScribe
2010-05-11, 01:20 AM
Sudden urge to homebrew:


Dual Object (Magic Weapon quality)
This object can be treated as one of two items, and may take on qualities of one whilst looking like another. The two objects must have a vaguely similar shape, but otherwise any two objects may be used. The best way to describe this is through example, that of a violin/club and it's bow/sword. Elanor, their owner, can play music with them. Once she has finished she may use the bow/sword to stab an enemy with the object still appearing as a bow, and club an enemy with what looks like a violin but not wreck the precious object. She may then pretend to be part of a barbarian horde and attack her allies with her 'sword', but have it bounce off without doing any damage as if it were nothing but a violin bow.
Other uses could include a spellbook/stone tablet, a poison dart/daisy, or a great sword/magic staff.
The owner of a Dual Object is defined by its creator, and only the owner can manipulate the object. Switching owners requires a ritual costing 100gp and 25XP.
Moderate transmutation and illusion; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor/Create Wondrous Item, Polymorph Any Object; Price ????? (any suggestions?)

Also, I think E.M.I.T constructs are quite a good idea. Of course, they'd be prettied up as toys, but I like the idea of there being a kind of construct-makers guild where you have to make one to apply. The lowfolk are just generally cool.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-11, 03:22 AM
A Fleshy body construct would be very hard to tell from a Similacrum or person an external exam could only tell by noting ether subtle imperfections or unusual shapes in the bone structure but if you were to cut such a construct open it would be quite obvious you weren’t dealing with an organic being (unlike a Similacrum which appears normal through and through until destroyed and turned back to snow) internally the bones would be made of stone wood and metal while the ribcage is solid and only has false lines of ribs the abdomen would have several of the less rigid vital structures as well as support for the upper body. Think a T 1000 but with a lot of stone and wood inside and also not all of the soft bits are expendable. I was thinking about the warforged magic items that attach and merge with the body and I was thinking that a Fleshy body workforged could attach them but it would deal 1 point of damage and give a -2 circumstance penalty when trying to appear humanoid.

They all seam to fit Urban Oasis would be used by the wild in the grove to defend ther hidden locations and to cause chaos plus there are border regions where a lose one would thrive. Also the borders of Galidrin would work well (otherwise Owrtho is spot on).

Sialla Danda's Thrive needs some limit or well you see the problem. SIX MILION HP!!!


E.M.I.T s are awesome especially if the rule is they can be made by any caster without the craft construct feat an E.M.I.T with a variation on magic mouth would make a good talking toy(I love constructs).


@TheLonelyScribe so are they like keys/guns in MSPA (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4)(Page (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000220)forward (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000221)a couple (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000222)of times (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000227)you should get (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000228)the idea) (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000237) or are they more like the sword bow and bow staff in magic item compendium?

Silverscale
2010-05-11, 05:32 AM
The way the dual objects are described, I think it's along both lines....that is, assuming both object are roughly similar in shape/size then they can be made to function as one or the other.

As to the "Sialla Danda": Let's change it from "for every 500 people in their city" to "for every 500 living beings in their home district"

BRC
2010-05-11, 08:31 AM
Sudden urge to homebrew:


Dual Object (Magic Weapon quality)
This object can be treated as one of two items, and may take on qualities of one whilst looking like another. The two objects must have a vaguely similar shape, but otherwise any two objects may be used. The best way to describe this is through example, that of a violin/club and it's bow/sword. Elanor, their owner, can play music with them. Once she has finished she may use the bow/sword to stab an enemy with the object still appearing as a bow, and club an enemy with what looks like a violin but not wreck the precious object. She may then pretend to be part of a barbarian horde and attack her allies with her 'sword', but have it bounce off without doing any damage as if it were nothing but a violin bow.
Other uses could include a spellbook/stone tablet, a poison dart/daisy, or a great sword/magic staff.
The owner of a Dual Object is defined by its creator, and only the owner can manipulate the object. Switching owners requires a ritual costing 100gp and 25XP.
Moderate transmutation and illusion; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor/Create Wondrous Item, Polymorph Any Object; Price ????? (any suggestions?)

Also, I think E.M.I.T constructs are quite a good idea. Of course, they'd be prettied up as toys, but I like the idea of there being a kind of construct-makers guild where you have to make one to apply. The lowfolk are just generally cool.
Problem Sleuth much?

TheLonelyScribe
2010-05-11, 10:54 AM
Problem Sleuth much?

Never even heard of it until now. I got the idea more from this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150356&highlight=eberron+motivators (11th post down, spoilered)

I thought, 'No way could a violin bow draw blood!', and then decided to make one that could (using the power of my imagination!).

The Dual Objects are less weird and crazy than the gun/key in that problem sleuth thing, and I'm afraid I do not own a copy of the magic item compendium. I'll detail the idea a little more though:

The object can do anything that any of its constituent objects can do, at the same time, except for look like both at once (that would be too confusing!). You could have your swordbow (violin bow, not one used for launching arrows) look and feel like a sword whilst playing a violin and stabbing an enemy with the pointy end. You could prepare spells from your stonespellbook above a roaring flame with no ill effect (to the spellbook). You could tickle someone with your poisondartdaisy and kill them. The idea is that, not only can it switch between being these two things, it can actually be both of them at the same time.

^I think that last sentence was the most helpful^

ForzaFiori
2010-05-11, 03:46 PM
As to the "Sialla Danda": Let's change it from "for every 500 people in their city" to "for every 500 living beings in their home district"

Or we could just pop some extra 0s on it. Change it from "for every 500" to "for every 500,000"

Owrtho
2010-05-11, 04:19 PM
As Ishka is a single city with a population of about a billion, that is still around 2000 HP. Also changing it to per district seems to fit it better.

Owrtho

BLiZme.2
2010-05-11, 05:05 PM
We may have gone over this before but what is the average district population?
As wrote duel item is 1 not very applicable as a weapon property and 2 really really confusing I mean the key guns are confusing but that is why there awesome The whole comic is at least half that but this seams even more confusing. I am not sure how to or even if it can be fixed (probably needs to be a general wondrous item) but it could be vary cool.

Silverscale
2010-05-11, 07:57 PM
We may have gone over this before but what is the average district population? Roughly 20,000,000 which means to make it a reasonable ability you'd have to say "for every 500,000 living beings in their home district"

Owrtho
2010-05-11, 10:56 PM
I'm wondering where your getting that number from. For one thing, you can't just divide the total population by the number of districts we have. Those listed are meant to be the more notable and/or important districts. There are however many more (so DMs can make up their own, and when you account for all the separate commons, secret districts, steamworks, etc. which while only listed once, are actually a basic type of district rather than a single one). Districts are said to range from the size of a large town to an average city in general (not factoring in Ishka for determining average city size). There are of course some exceptions, like Necropolis which is quite large, as well as the Temple District, but those are more likely exceptions rather than the rule (though much of this is up to the DM's personal choice).

That said, I also don't know where you got that number, so you may have looked up average city size. However that does seem a bit high to me (particularly as it is based on average DnD city size I believe).

Owrtho

TheLonelyScribe
2010-05-12, 01:24 AM
About dual objects... yeah, I know, it fits more as a wondrous item quality, but the problem is, in core D&D books that is, there's no such thing! Just think of it as a weapon ability that can apply to things other than weapons. The ideas for use are mainly subterfuge and surprise, but there are other times when it might come in handy, like that stonespellbook I mentioned.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-12, 03:26 AM
My big concern is that as written now it costs magic weapon +es as opposed t a "flat" GP cost (I suggest the cost be the cost of the cheaper item + twice the cost of the more expensive item + a constant cost say 1000GP) otherwise it is ok cost wise. I’m still not comfortable with some of the act like 2 objects at once fluff for example I would be ok if it acted like a stone slab physically but looked like a spell book so you could read it but id think you should not be able to turn the page similarly. I would think you cant stab someone while playing the violin with a sword bow (the violin kind) but I am ok with on the same round if you have the actions otherwise playing the violin and stabbing them just not while the sword is on the violin or it would cut the string and I see this distinction being really hard to adjudicate when it comes up as a vital point.
What school of magic (and thus mechanism) do you imagine this effect as that might help clear this dissonance up or not worth a shot though.

Silverscale
2010-05-12, 06:05 AM
I'm wondering where your getting that number from. For one thing, you can't just divide the total population by the number of districts we have. Those listed are meant to be the more notable and/or important districts. There are however many more (so DMs can make up their own, and when you account for all the separate commons, secret districts, steamworks, etc. which while only listed once, are actually a basic type of district rather than a single one). Districts are said to range from the size of a large town to an average city in general (not factoring in Ishka for determining average city size). There are of course some exceptions, like Necropolis which is quite large, as well as the Temple District, but those are more likely exceptions rather than the rule (though much of this is up to the DM's personal choice).

That said, I also don't know where you got that number, so you may have looked up average city size. However that does seem a bit high to me (particularly as it is based on average DnD city size I believe).

Owrtho We have about 30 districts listed, I divided the total population of roughly 1billion by 50 to account for some of the extra districts however if you think that's too high how about we say there are 200 districts, then the math comes out to 5,000,000 people per district, and a reasonable fix to the Sialla Danda would be to change it to "for every 100,000 living beings in their home district"


If that's still too high how about we say 500 districts, then the math becomes 2,000,000 people per district, and to fix the Sialla Danda it would read "for every 250,000 living beings in their home district"

Silverscale
2010-05-12, 08:14 PM
This doesn't include all the various constructs but it does include all the Golems for every edition of D&D up to 3.5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29

BLiZme.2
2010-05-12, 09:36 PM
on the Sialla Danda how about we cap the bonus hp to 1-2 per HD for the fae then it will make it scale nicely and not be redonculus in Ishka.

Owrtho
2010-05-12, 11:37 PM
We have about 30 districts listed, I divided the total population of roughly 1billion by 50 to account for some of the extra districts however if you think that's too high how about we say there are 200 districts, then the math comes out to 5,000,000 people per district, and a reasonable fix to the Sialla Danda would be to change it to "for every 100,000 living beings in their home district"


If that's still too high how about we say 500 districts, then the math becomes 2,000,000 people per district, and to fix the Sialla Danda it would read "for every 250,000 living beings in their home district"

I still think that's too high. I expect districts are actually in the thousands or more, though most are just commons and can blend into one another. And again I'll note that it has been said an average district is about the size of a normal city. Given that, I expect it would be easier to work in reverse, first finding average population of a city, then dividing 1 billion by that. Then we would take a hundred or so away to account for the extra large districts like Necropolis. Also, would they count undead, because if not that is a somewhat notable chunk of Ishka's population.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-13, 09:30 AM
If that's still too high how about we say 500 districts, then the math becomes 2,000,000 people per district, and to fix the Sialla Danda it would read "for every 250,000 living beings in their home district" No they do not count undead or constructs into their hp boost. This means there aren't any in the Necropolis and any other district where Undead and/or Constructs are the dominant "life form". It's not that they dislike the Undead, it's just that they are drawn to the living.

Owrtho
2010-05-14, 01:32 PM
Ishka on the second page‽ Not if I have anything to say about it.

Anyway, I could see some Sialla Danda being in places dominated by undead and/or constructs. It would just require there is also a sufficient amount of living beings.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-14, 02:05 PM
It seems it is once again time to make a compilation of Ishka. Seeing as how I haven't done one for over 20 pages, I will try and get to it this weekend. It's going to take a while since I have to cut/paste the whole thread again because I don't have the original documents on my computer anymore. I will make every attempt to be as thorough as possible but I apologize in advance for anything that may get left out by accident.

Fable Wright
2010-05-14, 06:02 PM
My big concern is that as written now it costs magic weapon +es as opposed t a "flat" GP cost (I suggest the cost be the cost of the cheaper item + twice the cost of the more expensive item + a constant cost say 1000GP) otherwise it is ok cost wise. I’m still not comfortable with some of the act like 2 objects at once fluff for example I would be ok if it acted like a stone slab physically but looked like a spell book so you could read it but id think you should not be able to turn the page similarly. I would think you cant stab someone while playing the violin with a sword bow (the violin kind) but I am ok with on the same round if you have the actions otherwise playing the violin and stabbing them just not while the sword is on the violin or it would cut the string and I see this distinction being really hard to adjudicate when it comes up as a vital point.
What school of magic (and thus mechanism) do you imagine this effect as that might help clear this dissonance up or not worth a shot though.

School of magic: Transmutation(polymorph) moderate aura, Illusion moderate aura.

It seems to me that this works by an item being able to shift between being one item and another. It can also appear like either of the items. Hence, polymorph subschool and the illusion school of magic are both in the item.

Owrtho
2010-05-14, 09:51 PM
It seems it is once again time to make a compilation of Ishka. Seeing as how I haven't done one for over 20 pages, I will try and get to it this weekend. It's going to take a while since I have to cut/paste the whole thread again because I don't have the original documents on my computer anymore. I will make every attempt to be as thorough as possible but I apologize in advance for anything that may get left out by accident.

Not quite sure, but it seems like making a wiki or the like would be helpful for organizing everything. Then that could just be updated as needed and links made to it.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-14, 10:05 PM
Not quite sure, but it seems like making a wiki or the like would be helpful for organizing everything. Then that could just be updated as needed and links made to it.

Owrtho

Don't know how to make a Wiki but if someone want's to WIKIfi what I wind up with that would be cool. Or if someone can tell me how to make a Wiki either way...I've gotten to the end of page 13 and so far have 138 pages of text (I've been doing a bit of pairing as I went).

Owrtho
2010-05-14, 10:34 PM
Never made a wiki or the like myself, but I found a how to here (http://www.squidoo.com/how-to-make-a-wiki). According to what it says, it seems like it would be easier than trying to make a normal website or the like, but having never made a wiki, I am unsure of its validity.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-15, 07:35 AM
Never made a wiki or the like myself, but I found a how to here (http://www.squidoo.com/how-to-make-a-wiki). According to what it says, it seems like it would be easier than trying to make a normal website or the like, but having never made a wiki, I am unsure of its validity.

Owrtho

I'll take a look at that thanx

EDIT: Looked at it....still can't figure out how to start a new Wiki, got frustrated with Wikipedia, going back to copy/pasting the thread.

Frozen Messiah
2010-05-15, 12:06 PM
Hey guys,

I have been rreading through this whole thread (a large undertaking) because I plan on running this setting but I am confused about how are the layers held up?

Keep going on this because it's one of the best things I have seen in regards to D&D,

- FM

ForzaFiori
2010-05-15, 01:13 PM
Hey guys,

I have been rreading through this whole thread (a large undertaking) because I plan on running this setting but I am confused about how are the layers held up?

Keep going on this because it's one of the best things I have seen in regards to D&D,

- FM

They layers are held up by a large amount of stuff. The layers beneath them to begin with (kinda like a how the basement helps hold the main floor which helps hold an attic). There are also millions of columns running up and down the layers. The largest are usually named, or very well known. They provide additional support. More than likely, there are probably a few places held together by epic spells. Mainly however, they are held up by the sheer fact that, since it started on the river, there is no where for them to go.

Frozen Messiah
2010-05-15, 01:31 PM
They layers are held up by a large amount of stuff. The layers beneath them to begin with (kinda like a how the basement helps hold the main floor which helps hold an attic). There are also millions of columns running up and down the layers. The largest are usually named, or very well known. They provide additional support. More than likely, there are probably a few places held together by epic spells. Mainly however, they are held up by the sheer fact that, since it started on the river, there is no where for them to go.

Thank you very much,

I had assumed as such but I am glad that someone has clarified. if you guys want once my game gets started I could link it over to here.

Thanks again,

FM

ForzaFiori
2010-05-15, 01:50 PM
Thank you very much,

I had assumed as such but I am glad that someone has clarified. if you guys want once my game gets started I could link it over to here.

Thanks again,

FM

If your running it on GiTP, I might send in an entry. I'm already in one game in Ishka. Might as well try out for another.

Frozen Messiah
2010-05-15, 01:54 PM
If your running it on GiTP, I might send in an entry. I'm already in one game in Ishka. Might as well try out for another.

sorry, I am doing this for 2 friends to play through although if it seems to be going well than I will make another one in the same world so that the choice you make may impact the other group.

Hey, if everything goes really well than there may be a chance to make a Living Ishka World...but that is the future

FM

ForzaFiori
2010-05-15, 04:52 PM
sorry, I am doing this for 2 friends to play through although if it seems to be going well than I will make another one in the same world so that the choice you make may impact the other group.

Hey, if everything goes really well than there may be a chance to make a Living Ishka World...but that is the future

FM

dang. Oh well.

Silverscale
2010-05-15, 09:01 PM
Just finished copy/pasting the entire thread into a 420 page doc.file. Now comes the task of turning it into a usable Compendium for Ishka. This compendium will not include anything that appears after this post as I already have PLENTY to wade through.

Owrtho
2010-05-15, 09:19 PM
Looked at it....still can't figure out how to start a new Wiki, got frustrated with Wikipedia, going back to copy/pasting the thread.

Thought I'd ask if you watched the video on the link. I also didn't get much out of the written part (and hadn't much planned to watch the video either), but was bored and had nothing to do so watched it. It deemed to explain things much better. If that didn't work for you I might try making a wiki page, but don't know how well I would do at it.

Also, seeing how things have gone through somewhat of an evolution since Ishka was first made, are we going to directly copy things, or will we reword things to better take into account more recent content and changes to fluff.
(an example could be Ravenshome, which has had some slight changes in general disposition as well as most people calling the Sentinels Ravens. Also something along the lines of the Saint the Stone Raven would likely be mentioned in a more up to date version).

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-15, 09:51 PM
Thought I'd ask if you watched the video on the link. I also didn't get much out of the written part (and hadn't much planned to watch the video either), but was bored and had nothing to do so watched it. It deemed to explain things much better. If that didn't work for you I might try making a wiki page, but don't know how well I would do at it.

Also, seeing how things have gone through somewhat of an evolution since Ishka was first made, are we going to directly copy things, or will we reword things to better take into account more recent content and changes to fluff.
(an example could be Ravenshome, which has had some slight changes in general disposition as well as most people calling the Sentinels Ravens. Also something along the lines of the Saint the Stone Raven would likely be mentioned in a more up to date version).

Owrtho

Watched the video, tried a couple of the links mentioned at the end, couldn't get anything to do what I wanted it to. I'll start by copy/pasting into individual documents and then organize/edit things to reflect updates. For example does anyone remember Ropeball?

BRC
2010-05-15, 09:52 PM
Watched the video, tried a couple of the links mentioned at the end, couldn't get anything to do what I wanted it to. I'll start by copy/pasting into individual documents and then organize/edit things to reflect updates. For example does anyone remember Ropeball?
I DO!

If I get some time, I'll try to make a Wiki myself and put it up.

Edit: like THIS! (http://ishka.wikispaces.com/)okay, nothin in there yet, but it exists!

Silverscale
2010-05-15, 11:18 PM
I DO!

If I get some time, I'll try to make a Wiki myself and put it up.

Edit: like THIS! (http://ishka.wikispaces.com/)okay, nothin in there yet, but it exists!

BRC once again you're awesome...I'll start filling it in tomorrow from my thread C./P.

{EDIT}Does anyone know how to make a sticky post so that we can put a link to the Wiki that appears at the top of all the thread pages for Ishka?{/EDIT}

Owrtho
2010-05-16, 12:55 AM
Not sure about a stickypost (if it's possible it likely takes a moderator or admin). Still, we could just have the first post edited and make links whenever it comes up (not exactly ideal though). Also, added a small page listing the saints (Not sure if it has all of them, but I took it from page 11).

Also, I can try putting up some of the pages if you send me the info (perhaps via PM). Then again, you might just want to put it up yourself at that point, unless we start getting more into formating.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-16, 01:13 AM
I've started to put up a few things but since I can't seem to log on it won't let me make any new pages or change the navigation bar. I can create links to new pages that apparently don't exist yet....go figure, anyway I'll post more tomorrow for now I have to put something in my ears so I can get some sleep despite the massive party taking place in my house.....oh the joys of living with 10 other people. Hopefully tomorrow I can figuer out how to log on right.

Anyone who wants to try and fill in some stuff, feel free I'll make sure everything is as complete/up-to-date as I can. Eventually I will have made it through the entire thread worth of text and put all applicable information into the Wiki.

Owrtho
2010-05-16, 01:42 AM
To log in you need to first make an account (fairly simple as it just requires an account name, password, and email). After that you can log in and make new pages. I have in the meantime Created all the pages you tried to link to. I also made the sain page nicer so it is ready to add info about each saint (I experimented).

Edit: Copied and pasted in info on the saints. I recommend using the text editor mode, the visual mode seems somewhat buggy. Also, who was Saint Olliden?

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-16, 09:51 AM
Note sure but I remember him from way back....He's in all the stuff I have ripped from the thread so I'll find him eventually.

Would anyone like me to make public the copy/paste of the whole thread that I have? It already has sections cut/pasted out of it to be put on the Wiki, but if anyone wants to help sift through the still 413 pages that would be cool....If you want me to I'm gonna need someone to remind me how to make a document public.

Owrtho
2010-05-16, 03:21 PM
That could be handy, though I'm not sure you would need make it public edit. People should be able to just see what has already been added.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-16, 05:28 PM
That could be handy, though I'm not sure you would need make it public edit. People should be able to just see what has already been added.

Owrtho

When I'm done going through the whole mess I'm going to copy/paste everything that hasn't already made it into the Wiki, onto it's own separate page so people can pick through and see if there's anything I've missed.

Silverscale
2010-05-17, 07:00 AM
I got about 1/5th the way through the content yesterday. I will continue working on it this afternoon after I get home from work. If anyone wants to do a write up I knew The Entertainment District never actually got written up, also when I get that far, there are a few Districts that were not included in the write-up for Ropeball so if people want to go ahead and put some ideas into that.

Silverscale
2010-05-17, 05:10 PM
Just a thought that occurred to me.....Now that we have a Wiki for Ishka, if you come up with new, please add it here first, before adding it to the Wiki. My reasoning for this is two fold. (1) This is first and foremost a Community world building project, which means new ideas should be discussed. (2) If you put it on the Wiki without even mentioning it here, chances are it will get lost before anyone even notices it, keep in mind we already have a LOT of material that I'm still working on getting posted to the Wiki.

Also If anyone wants to go in behind me and edit stuff so that it flows better or is easier to find or whatever.....feel free. Right now it's all I can do to get things up there in a reasonably coherent manner.

Owrtho
2010-05-17, 08:47 PM
I figure that it would be best to have all the stats and rule type things on a single page for convenience (as such I put up the Stats (http://ishka.wikispaces.com/Stats) page). Currently it overlaps with the Races of Ishka page. As such I'd suggest that the Races of Ishka page have just the fluff, with links to the Stats page (once we get to them I'd suggest a similar method for the classes).

Owrtho

Erutaron
2010-05-19, 01:24 AM
Hey all, I have a new idea that I came up with after reading Graveyard Shift again.

I decided to make a list of Streetbuilder codes, similar to the ones mentioned in GS.

SERIES: 100 Government contract
200 Large job 100+ men
300 Medium job 10-50 men
400 Small job 3-5 men
500 Minor job 1 man

JOB TYPE:
10 New construction
20 Maintenance
30 General cleanup
40 Survey work
50 Disaster cleanup
60 Demolition
70 Demolition and repair
80 Repair
90 Other

CODES:

1 Hostile-enviromental
2 Hostile-occupants
3 Hostile-wildlife
4 Recurring issue
5 Firemen required
6 Municipal Investigators required
7 Trash corps required
8 Rangers required
9 Urgent

EXAMPLES:

470 - A few workers needed to remove and replace a minor column ( graveyard style)

337 - A large festival was held and the street builders are assisting the trash corps in cleanup

129 - A large taskforce is needed to perform maintenance at Primordium Station

545 - One worker needed to work with the firefighters to assess whether a building meets the fire code

BLiZme.2
2010-05-19, 05:15 AM
Erutaron that is awesome for each exact kind of jot there should also be an optional lettered designation telling more specific info specific to that job type these are usually only used on paperwork or by specialists like a 337 M involves magical contamination like say cleaning the scrying tower in the university (i always imagined the university as very open and airy and the scrying tower could be a huge scrying focus to drown out the local interference in the city so that interplaner scrying and out of city scrying dose not do haywire due to local interference)

129 T involves the stations
129 M is something to do with the vault where vault security is sufficient and mi is not needed (not the shared letter this is intentional as the M changes with context)

i would also think that each jog as it is done would have an id number starting withe teh year and having a unique number

but this is all useless minutia fluff but cool

ForzaFiori
2010-05-19, 06:18 AM
for the letters, you could have:
Au-Plane of Air
Aq-Plane of Water
I-Plane of Fire
T-Plane of Earth
U-Underwater
S-Surface
M-Heavy Security
Ma-Magical
T-Traveling Equipment
O-Organic (IE, working in the groves)
Sm-Small Area
L-Large Area
F-Flying Required (Mythril Hights, for example)
X-Other, in job description

That's all I can think of... as far as I can tell, it should cover most any specialty needed, and push comes to shove, just pop an X on it.

Silverscale
2010-05-19, 01:04 PM
So if I've got this right lets say there is a large fortification that needs to be re-built in Terradome while attacks are being held off. The job code would be 272-9 T-M, and the paperwork would say 2103-10-15 272-9 T-M a because it was the first job of the day, on the 15th day of the 10th month of the 2103rd year

That actually brings up an interesting question, what sort of presencse do Organizations like The Streetbuilders, The Trash Corps, etc have off world in the Secret Districts? Does each of the Secret Districts have their own group of Streetbuilders, or do they sned for a group as needed, or do they work out something else?

Erutaron
2010-05-19, 01:15 PM
So if I've got this right lets say there is a large fortification that needs to be re-built in Terradome while attacks are being held off. The job code would be 272-9 T-M, and the paperwork would say 2103-10-15 272-9 T-M a because it was the first job of the day, on the 15th day of the 10th month of the 2103rd year


Yeah this looks like you got it all right. I hope it will be useful for rp-purposes.



That actually brings up an interesting question, what sort of presencse do Organizations like The Streetbuilders, The Trash Corps, etc have off world in the Secret Districts? Does each of the Secret Districts have their own group of Streetbuilders, or do they sned for a group as needed, or do they work out something else?

I always imagined it like Ishka Streetbuilders are the home office, with the branches in Secret Districts being undesirable postings, and those on other planes being specialist jobs.

BRC
2010-05-19, 01:23 PM
So if I've got this right lets say there is a large fortification that needs to be re-built in Terradome while attacks are being held off. The job code would be 272-9 T-M, and the paperwork would say 2103-10-15 272-9 T-M a because it was the first job of the day, on the 15th day of the 10th month of the 2103rd year

That actually brings up an interesting question, what sort of presencse do Organizations like The Streetbuilders, The Trash Corps, etc have off world in the Secret Districts? Does each of the Secret Districts have their own group of Streetbuilders, or do they sned for a group as needed, or do they work out something else?
The Streetbuilders wouldn't be needed for secret districts. The Secret districts are built like normal towns and cities, the streetbuilders are primarily needed in order to ensure the structural stability of Ishka, if a house falls down in a secret district, it dosn't bring everybody elses house with it.

Silverscale
2010-05-19, 03:50 PM
The Streetbuilders wouldn't be needed for secret districts. The Secret districts are built like normal towns and cities, the streetbuilders are primarily needed in order to ensure the structural stability of Ishka, if a house falls down in a secret district, it dosn't bring everybody elses house with it.

What about some of the other organizations? Like the Trash Corps, The Firefighters, The Crazy Cartographer's Guild?

BLiZme.2
2010-05-20, 04:26 AM
as to the codes I think that some common X codes would have numbers so you could have an X(173) bean on rare and specific but still occasionally recurring thing like say anti magic work zone where a plain X means see job notes

as to secret districts & originations Streetbuilders(tending ,mending and making rode, wells civic buildings, town walls and gats seems like it not much else they would be nice for "retirement" jobs or to get you out of the way),Trash Corps(trash pickup sewer cleaning and fertilizer distribution seam like it ), The Firefighters (even with out the full power of there armor they might (heavy on the might) still run steam punk fire engines to put out and control fires and lead bucket brigades), The Crazy Cartographer's Guild (Anywhere in search of a short cut.), the alliance (nice quite locations out of town, narcotics smuggling, fencing rings),The Wild (gate sabotage and retreats).

iv been updating the station statistics so we can have up to date numbers for the wiki and i have a couple of questions for the community.
1 when we have a combination station on the secondary lines dose each of the secondary lines serve there one tertiary and Quandary or do they share if they do not share the math is much easier and they can just drift to far sides of there approximate region
2 the worst case speeds can be vastly improved (~2 hours max) on the whole line if the tertiary stop opposite the associated secondary station also deposits in the associated secondary station so that you are at most 9 stations (45 min) from a tier two station as opposed to 18 stations (90 min) from a tier two station when in a tertiary station
3 if we make the main line flow both directions then we gain a lot of efficiency on the main line and the mat becomes enormously easier is everyone ok changing that also as it stands the first station you visit on the main line from the primordium receives all of Primordium centrals out traffic and the one that feds it receives all of its inn traffic making that one carriage a nightmare to get in or out of but if we split it then all of that traffic is approximately halved
4 I just want to confirm that a one off station in a district serviced multiple times by another line shares a location with one of the primary line stations as opposed to being by itself

also I am going to draw (by hand) a station layout for a basic station for all of the basic station layouts and primordium central. Do you all believe that assuming each carriage can hold 6 occupants of its maximum (gargantuan IIRC on the main line) rated size is reasonable for each carriage or should it be more (or less)?

Silverscale
2010-05-20, 01:13 PM
As to secret districts & originations Streetbuilders(tending ,mending and making rode, wells civic buildings, town walls and gats seems like it not much else they would be nice for "retirement" jobs or to get you out of the way),Trash Corps(trash pickup sewer cleaning and fertilizer distribution seam like it ), The Firefighters (even with out the full power of there armor they might (heavy on the might) still run steam punk fire engines to put out and control fires and lead bucket brigades), The Crazy Cartographer's Guild (Anywhere in search of a short cut.), the alliance (nice quite locations out of town, narcotics smuggling, fencing rings),The Wild (gate sabotage and retreats).
Ok that seems workable.


1 when we have a combination station on the secondary lines dose each of the secondary lines serve there one tertiary and Quandary or do they share if they do not share the math is much easier and they can just drift to far sides of there approximate regionLet me see if I've understood you corretly on these.....The Secondary lines do not share Tertiary/Quandary lines unless they happen to share a stop such as Primordium Central. That is to say for most Secondary stops there will be one Tertiary line going up and one going down; aslo one Quandary line going "left" and one going "right". These T/Q lines are only shared with another Secondary line if-and-only-if another secondary line shares the same stop and only for that stop.


2 the worst case speeds can be vastly improved (~2 hours max) on the whole line if the tertiary stop opposite the associated secondary station also deposits in the associated secondary station so that you are at most 9 stations (45 min) from a tier two station as opposed to 18 stations (90 min) from a tier two station when in a tertiary station I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Both the Secondary and Tertiary stop are within the same building, however are operated in separate chambers. All you have to do is exit one chamber, possibly do a little shopping, and enter the other chamber.


3 if we make the main line flow both directions then we gain a lot of efficiency on the main line and the mat becomes enormously easier is everyone ok changing that also as it stands the first station you visit on the main line from the primordium receives all of Primordium centrals out traffic and the one that feds it receives all of its inn traffic making that one carriage a nightmare to get in or out of but if we split it then all of that traffic is approximately halved This is a valid point, the only reason I had it run in a continuois loop instead of both ways ios because it is only nine stops, where as the other tiers may have more stops on them. They still all leave every 5 minutes so you never run the problem of being more then 5 minutes away from the next departure.


4 I just want to confirm that a one off station in a district serviced multiple times by another line shares a location with one of the primary line stations as opposed to being by itselfI think I covered this question above but yes Stations that share the same stop are all in one building.



also I am going to draw (by hand) a station layout for a basic station for all of the basic station layouts and primordium central. Do you all believe that assuming each carriage can hold 6 occupants of its maximum (gargantuan IIRC on the main line) rated size is reasonable for each carriage or should it be more (or less)? I think that's a fine idea. I think the stations should all hold at least 6 "Huge" creatrues so as not to over crowd the Quandary lines.

TheLonelyScribe
2010-05-20, 03:20 PM
On the size of chambers, I had always thought that more primary lines had larger chambers. Maybe 16 huge creatures for a primary line cabin, 8 for a secondary line cabin, 4 for a tertiary line cabin, and 2 for a quandary line cabin.

Silverscale
2010-05-20, 03:39 PM
On the size of chambers, I had always thought that more primary lines had larger chambers. Maybe 16 huge creatures for a primary line cabin, 8 for a secondary line cabin, 4 for a tertiary line cabin, and 2 for a quandary line cabin.Yes the Primary line should be the largest but I don't think the Quandary line should be that small....How about the Quandary can hold 4 Huge creatures, the Tertiary 6 Huge creatures, the Secondary 4 Gargantuan creatures, and the Primary 6 Gargantuan creatures. That's enough space for 36 Medium, 54 Medium, 64 Medium, and 96 Medium creatures respectively. Enough space for a reasonable number of passengers and also some cargo crates as I would assume the Stations are used as one of the ways to get goods around the city.

I've linked the Wiki in my signature so it can be easily found.

Silverscale
2010-05-20, 05:22 PM
If we go with the idea that all 4 Tiers run both forward and back ward and that any given line has only 9 stops (not accurate but helps with some math) then there are
9 Tier 1 Stations
81 Tier 2 Stations (9 of which are in the same building as the Tier 1 Stations)
729 Tier 3 Stations (81 share a building with Tier 2 Stations)
and 6561 Tier 4 Stations (729 share a building with Tier 3 Stations)

This means you are never more then 4 stations away from your next stop/transfer since you can always take the shortest route to your destination.

Therefore at worst you have to go 4 Quaternary stops, 4 Tertiary stops, and 4 Secondary stops to get to a Central Station. Then you would at worst have to go 4 stops on the Primary line to reverse the process from above for a grand total of 4+4+4+4+4+4+4 or 28 stops from one point to another. This would take you roughly 2 hours and 20 minutes, certainly not bad for getting around a city the size of Ishka.

As I said the number of stops per line is more than 9 on all but the Primary Line so these numbers aren't 100% accurate but the idea is the same.

Owrtho
2010-05-20, 06:21 PM
as to secret districts & originations Streetbuilders(tending ,mending and making rode, wells civic buildings, town walls and gats seems like it not much else they would be nice for "retirement" jobs or to get you out of the way),Trash Corps(trash pickup sewer cleaning and fertilizer distribution seam like it ), The Firefighters (even with out the full power of there armor they might (heavy on the might) still run steam punk fire engines to put out and control fires and lead bucket brigades), The Crazy Cartographer's Guild (Anywhere in search of a short cut.), the alliance (nice quite locations out of town, narcotics smuggling, fencing rings),The Wild (gate sabotage and retreats).

I don't think there would be streetbuilders in the secret districts at all (at least not as a work force). The same goes for the Trash Corps and the Firefighters. The secret districts' goal is to blend in with normal towns and cities of that region of the plane, and as such they would need to do without such things found in Ishka proper and handle those jobs the same way as the other towns and cities.
For similar reasons, there would most likely not be any races that don't fit in with the normal inhabitants of the plane (at least in appearance) in secret districts.

Owrtho

BRC
2010-05-20, 06:22 PM
What about MI? If a criminal flees to a secret district, does MI have jurisdiction and the right to pursue? Or do they count on the local police to handle it.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-20, 07:35 PM
Apparently I was unclear in my question. I will attempt to clarify.
As we currently have the network described, it is unclear whether the tier two stations that are only tangential to a district (have one stop in that district when the district has more than one stop in it on another line) are located in the same building as that district’s native line (the line that has more than one stop in that district) or if they are in a distinct location within the district, just like all the other stations. Further if they are in one location do both of those secondary line stations share a tertiary and quandary station (the math is harder if this is true {see "exception" below}) or does each one have its own secondary(?) and quandary stations(in essence you have two whole stations sharing a building and a ticket counter). So for example the black line has one stop in the academy and the blue line has 6 therefore the blue line is the academy’s native line and the black line is the tangential line. Does this mean that there is a blue line station that shares its location physically with the black line academy station or is the black line academy station several blocks away from the nearest blue line station.

"exception" the secondary stations in Primordium Central and the opposite tertiary stops in my adjustment below do not have there own lines but share with ether Primordium Central or there associated secondary station as appropriate.

What I was saying with the tertiaries is that there at 36 chambers in a tertiary line one is on the secondary line and I will call it station 1 the opposite location from station 1 is location 19 if location 19 is also in the secondary station chamber 1 is in then the furthest points in the line are stations 10 and 27 and they wait 45 in steed of 90 minutes to get to a secondary station. Location 19 then shares its tertiary and quandary with location 1.

This change would caus one small change to Silverscale’s description of Primordium Central Station change in italic



Here is exactly what I think should be found in Primordium Central Station other than the shops, ticket booth, etc.
--One Tier 1 Chamber (As there are only 9 stops on the whole line it just runs in a continuous cycle)
--18 Tier 2 Chambers (9 Lines cycling "Forward", 9 Lines cycling in "Reverse")
--Two (there would be 4 Tier 3 Chambers on opposite sides of the tier three line) Tier 3 Chambers (One cycling up the layers {when it gets to the top of the canyon, it cycles straight to the bottom to start the cycle over}. One cycling down the layers {when it gets to the bottom of the canyon, it cycles straight to the top to start the cycle over}
--Two Tier 4 Chambers (Similar to the way the Tier 3 work only this time cycling "left-right" and "right-left"


Also I have most of the math marked in XL with all my changes calculated I just want the changes OKed before I post to the wiki. Max travel time is like 5 hours after the changes IIRC (the spared sheet is on my other computer)

Rewrite of the lonely scribe primary and secondary station arrangement grouped by district not line with the main line locations marked.

Primordium ML(white) white 2
Temple white 6, green, yellow
Ether white 2
Necropolis ML(black) black 4
Everdark black 3, red
Dark city black 2
Market District ML(brown) Brown 3, Purple
Terradome brown 1
Stadle brown 2, red
Smallville/Gulliver's Heights ML(red) red 3, green
Redmere red 2
Gobin red 2, green
Customs and Immigrations ML(yelow) yellow 1, white, brown, purple
Collected Colleges yellow 4, blue
Republic of Ishka yellow 4, red
Mage's District ML(ornge) orange 5, black, brown, blue, purple
Hedon orange 5, brown, yellow, green
Art Community orange 4, purple
DHC ML(Green) green 4, white, black, brown, red, orange, blue, purple
Groves green 4, white 2, red
Ungul green 4, red
Academy ML(blue) blue 6, black, orange, purple
Ravenshome blue 4, black
Aquarane blue 2,
Mithral Heights ML(purple) purple 4, white 2, brown, yellow
Mere purple 4, white, orange, blue
Port District Purple 3, blue, brown, yellow
Steamworks brown 2, red 2, yellow 2
Various residential black 4, brown 2, red 2, yellow 3, green 3


As to the secret districts I think all of the main city organizations have a presence but they all take care to appear like a planer natives when they are in one (except maybe the firefighters on a fire call because that is temporary and an emergency) it would not be hard to fake being a mundane street sweep sewer worker mail man rode worker carpenter/ mason employed by the city ect it just seams like it would not be to hard to fake it.

ForzaFiori
2010-05-20, 07:52 PM
as to the codes I think that some common X codes would have numbers so you could have an X(173) bean on rare and specific but still occasionally recurring thing like say anti magic work zone where a plain X means see job notes


I would imagine that if this is the case, the SB would make a code for it. Anti-Magic could be Am, or Z (for anti-magic Zone). The list I created is just the start. In a city as big as Ishka, there will certainly be more things to go on it, and new codes created all the time.

Owrtho
2010-05-20, 08:56 PM
As to the secret districts I think all of the main city organizations have a presence but they all take care to appear like a planer natives when they are in one (except maybe the firefighters on a fire call because that is temporary and an emergency) it would not be hard to fake being a mundane street sweep sewer worker mail man rode worker carpenter/ mason employed by the city ect it just seams like it would not be to hard to fake it.

While it is true that it wouldn't be hard to fake it, the fact is it isn't required. The streetbuilders exist to keep Ishka from collapsing. This isn't a threat in the secret districts, thus they aren't needed (the same way they don't work in the caves, but leave that to the cave knockers).
Similarly, the Trash Corps and Firefighters sure around to keep Ishka proper in check, and are busy doing so. As such they don't do jobs in the secret districts.
Also, while a fire might seem like an emergency, one in the secret districts is a rather minor problem compared to one in Ishka proper (where everything is connected, unless it happens in Ravenshome). If a building is on fire there it is up to the people who live there to deal with it. And when it comes down to it, they most likely will have the means to do so on their own, just due to the easy accessibility of magic items in Ishka.
As for law enforcement, that is another issue. MI would still have jurisdiction in secret districts (though not necessarily in the plane beyond, not that they would likely meet much opposition if they chose to pursue someone beyond the secret district), though the would try to blend in with the natives so long as it didn't interfere with their job.

Edit: Also, I suggest that some of the more notable groups and places (and individuals, etc.) be given their own page on the wiki that is then linked to from their smaller description on whatever page they're listed on (examples might be MI, the Alliance, some of the more discussed districts, some of the saints).

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-21, 12:00 AM
@BLiZme.2 Please explain to me the reason for your change.....It makes no sense to me. Are you saying that the Tier 3 lines run in some sort of figure-8?????? this is completely counter intuitive since the Tier 3 lines go from the top of the canyon to the bottom through 40 layers, why on earth would they make a figure-8??????

BLiZme.2
2010-05-21, 02:36 AM
I added the tier 3 modification because it cuts an hour and a half off the worst time on the network.
Also I did not clearly state (my bad) that the stations still go up and down relative to the main station as before it is just that the middle station brakes the pattern and jumps back to the tier two station. So basically if I am a color line station and want to go up I hop the main tier three chamber heading up. Then ride it until ether I am at the highest station (probably station 18) or I get to stop 19 which is across the station room from chamber 1 then if stop 18 or earlier was not the highest stop I go to stop 20 which is above stop 18 or if stop 18 was the highest then stop 20 is the lowest. This means you can get to the top and the bottom of the canyon in one ride (from a “normal” tier three) if stop 1 is the middle stop measures by height and counted in stations

Further while this may not always be true my impression is that it will often be the case that the color line station will at least be near the middle altitude of the canyon and thus cases where you go from the middle of the city, heading up the city , the top of the city, other middle location, the bottom of the city , heading up from the bottom of the city , back to the first middle stop. Is more probable then the cases where you go middle, up but not top, other middle stop, higher than before, top, bottom, from the bottom heading up, back to the first middle stop.


Here is a sketch of the ideal {?& normal?} case.

......18 <-top of city
...../.|
2-17.| <
.....\.|
.....1&19 <-middle of city and tier two station
.......|.\
.......|..21-36
.......|./
.......20 <bottom of city

Other cases will lock something like this or this up side down where T = the number of the highest station and B= number of the lowest station

......................T <-top of city
...................../.|
...........20-(T-1).|
......18..|...........|
...../.|...|..........|
2-17.|...|..........|
.....\.|...|..........|
......1&19..........| <-tier two station
.......\..............|
.......(B+1)-36...|
...................\..|
.....................B <- bottom of city

Extreme cases will have the color line at he top or bottom and look like this

..............1&19 <-top of city
............./.|.|.|
.......2-17..|.|.|
............\..|.|.|
.............18.|.|
.................|.|
...............20.|
.............../...|
........21-35...|
................\..|
.................36 <-bottom of city

I will probably post my XL notes on this here tomorow if i have time as of now i need sleep.

Silverscale
2010-05-21, 06:43 AM
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO HAVE TIER 3 GO IN A FIGURE 8. All lines run in both forward and reverse, one chamber at each stop for each direction, 2 per tier/per line in cases such as Primordium Central where there is more than one Tier 2 line. Therefore you are ALWAYS within the number of stops on the line divided by 2, away from your next stop/interchange. If you read my description of how Tier 3 Stations work
(One cycling up the layers {when it gets to the top of the canyon, it cycles straight to the bottom to start the cycle over}. One cycling down the layers {when it gets to the bottom of the canyon, it cycles straight to the top to start the cycle over})then you'd see that they are already perfectly efficient without being put into a ridiculous figure-8.

Silverscale
2010-05-21, 05:56 PM
I've finally finished cut/pasting the thread into the Wiki. Out of 420 pages of text, there are still 269 pages of text that have not found their way to the Wiki.

Some things were left out because I wasn't sure where to put them or if they had ever been agreed upon. There is also a lot of discussion that may be useful for something or other, but didn't make it to the Wiki because I didn't want to overload what's there.

If anyone wants to go back through the remaining text to see what I might have missed, PM me and I can e-mail you the document.

Also there are a couple of Districts that are listed but never got an actual write-up, anyone who wants to go ahead and write those up feel free.

Anyone who wants to go through the Wiki and help clean it up and make it easier to navigate, go for it.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-23, 02:49 AM
@Silverscale: pleas do not shout. Also I am well aware of the bidirectional nature of each line and have taken it into account in my calculations (they are not quite as simple as summing each lines {number of stops-1}/2*5) Primordium Central Station is the worst culprit in that irregularity but there are others.

It seems everyone is having trouble understanding everyone else’s vocabulary vis-à-vis several of the similar but distinct aspects of the stations I offer the following lexicon that I have been attempting to use, as a solution.

Stop: the place one Carriage sits at in a station
location: the place where a line stops i.e. the spin ward and counter spin ward stations stops for one line referred to as a set (one station can have two locations on the same line in it. For example the white line has two locations on the main line stop that is the root of the white line (Primordium Central Station) and a the 9th stop on the white line which is the Primordium shortcut location for the white line).
Root: the first location on a line
Station: the building one or more locations are housed in often with a ticket counter and shops
line: the set of both routs that share the same set of locations in reverses order from each other, each line location is numbered the same as one of its component lines which line is chosen arbitrarily the matching rout is called the spin ward rout the other is counter spin ward.
Rout (new): a collection of stops in a given order each stops on a line has a number, one station in each rout is connected to the next highest line and is called the main location or root of that line, and is numbered 1, Primordium Central Station is the root of the main line.
Farthest point: the station or stations that are located farthest from any station of the next tier up measured in station jumps.
Opposite station: the station located farthest from a given stations root measured in station jumps on that line (distinct from Farthest point in that it only counts the first location on a line as a valid location and not the shortcut location. ex. the main line necropolis station (the black line root) is counted but the black line short cut location in Primordium Central Station is not thus the short cut location is the opposite station).
Sort cut location: a location that is in a higher tier station than the current line but is not the root location of the line.
Chamber/ Carriage: the part of a station that actually teleports.

1.as described the tier two stations go in general in geographic order from there main line station up and down the canyon except (by Silverscale’s suggestion) the 10th location of 18 (starting from the main line as 1 and arbitrarily choosing the next location up rives as one and the next down as 18 {the number is still ten if we reverse these choices but do not change the root’s number}) which jumps back (ether behind or ahead of the flow) to Primordium Central Station (at location 10) and then after that detour it continue up the canyon as though there was no interruption and when the rout reaches its lake most stop it jumps to its port most stop (the counter spin rout dose the opposite) and then continues until you are at the location just down river from the line’s root location. Thus the tier two lines are “in a figure 8”. Why is that not ridicules? (I venture because the arrangement makes sense and is efficient.)
2. All I am proposing is the same general modification to the tier three station and line except that instead of condensing outlaying tier threes to one tier two (per tier two line) I connected the opposite tier three location to its associated root tier two station and as I said before it will be much easier to move a large distance than in an unmodified network.
3. In the modified network the farthest tertiary station is 9 stops or 45minuts from the tier two where as in the unmodified system it is 18 stops or 90 minutes from its tier two.

Maybe my notes will clear things up I will post both the numbers and the formulas.

I also propose the following notation for unambiguous station naming each station would have a unique 5 character ID the first character is a number from 1-9, the tier two locations are identified by the capital letters A-R, the tertiary lines are identified by a two digit number 01-36, the quandaries are identified by the small letters a-l each count starts at the root and counts in spin ward order. Any station with more than one set of lines is identified by its primary quandary station ID thus (the blue black academy station is named by the blue not the black quandary)EX Primordium Central Station is identified by 1A01a where as the most distant stations from PCS in my set up are 5B10g, 5C10g, 5P10g, 5Q10g, 5B28g, 5C28g, 5P28g, 5Q28g, 6B10g, 6C10g, 6P10g, 6Q10g, 6B28g, 6C28g, 6P28g, 6Q28g.with out my modifications remove the stations with 28s and change the tens to 19s. I would think each station would have its main quandries ID posted over its door. You could tell the tier of any station by looking to see what the left most nonroot term was then that position counted from the right is the stations tier EX 1A21a is a tier three station off the white line and 6D01a is a tier two of the sixth station from PCS.

Each stop would have its ID marked on it along with an iconographic descriptor of the direction it moves. for the main line ?a rain bow?{spin ward} and an "up side down rain bow" is{counter spin ward}, for the color lines an X in a circle {representing an arrow pointing away from you} this is the up river {spin ward} carriage and a circle with a dot in the middle {representing an arrow toward you} for the down river {counter spin ward} stop, for the tertiary stations an arrow pointing up would mean the up ward {spin ward} rout an arrow pointing down would mean the down ward {counter spin ward} rout, the quandary lined have an arrow pointing right{spin ward} for stations to the right when you are facing up river and an arrow pointing left {counter spin ward} for a stations to the left when you are facing up river. [a line over an arrow mean the next stop is the wrap around stop, {EX you are in the highest tertiary heading up thus the stops arrow points up and has a line over it and you will be at the bottom of the canyon after the next jump}, if the next station is the short cut station then the arrow is in a square meaning you may not be heading that way next but for the stop after next you will (if a station is the farthest and the next stop is the short cut the arrow will be in a box with a line over the box), and if the stop is the best stop to get to Primordium Central Station there will be a P (in the arrow around the dot or X () a p with ether a dot in the hole or an x crossing the inside of the hole for the color line, in the curve of the rain bow for the main line or in the triangle for any other.)]

Warning table warping will happen with this.

These numbers assume my changes if not add 18 tier three stations and 144 tier four stations and add 18 to the number of tier four lines (36 if the station type says total) ,and add 18 tier three stops and 162 tier 4 stops
and lastly add 45 minutes to all the Max time to any other and another 45 on top of that to the quandary and tertiary lines also recalculate the in hours


{TABLE]|A|B|C|D|E|F|G|H|I|J|K|L
1|Station Type |# of stations| # of routs |# of locations per line |total locations this tier| line type| time between jumps| # minutes per cycle| max wait to next tier up or down| Max time to any other| in houres|1
2|Primordium Central |1 |NA| NA| NA| NA| 5| 180| 20(30 to any tier two)| 105| 1.75
3|1st cycle | 8| 1| 9| 9| main line| 5| 45| 20| 115| 1.91667
4|2nd per direction |144| 9| 18| 153| color line| 5| 90 |20| 135| 2.25
5|2nd cycle total| 144| 18 |18| 153| color line| 5| 90| 20| 135| 2.25
6|3rd per direction| 5508 |153| 36| 5355| tertiary| 5| 180 |45| 180| 3
7|3rd cycle total| 5508 |306| 36| 5355| tertiary| 5| 180| 45| 180| 3
8|4th per direction| 44064| 5355| 9| 48195| quandary| 5| 45| 30| 210| 3.5
9|4th cycle total| 44064 |10710| 9| 48195 |quandary| 5| 45 |30| 210| 3.5
[/TABLE]


L1 is true if my changes are all accepted it is false if none are (if only some changes are accepted then the output is in error in ether case but set L1 = to true if the tertiary line suggestion is in and you have a good estimate otherwise false should be closer note 1= true 0= false)

You can cut this table and if you past it in to the upper left corner of an XL spread sheet it should work just line my copy I have tested this. The outer if statements in the max wait to next tier up or down column are to accommodate my comments and are superfluous but the inner one on the tertiary line is functional as are all the ones to the left of the line type column
in explanation of cell I2 the 8 farthest tier two stations from Primordium Central station are 5C01a, 5D01a, 5P01a, 5Q01a, 6C01a, 6D01a, 6P01a, 6Q01a.
The C and Q stations can be reached most quickly by heading to there root via the main line then heading along the tertiary lines spin wise for the Cs and counter spin for the Qs the D and Ps would take 35 minutes that way but only take 30 if you just use the short cut stop in Primordium Central but heading to the C or Q’s that way would take 30 minutes. (it obviously takes at most 20 minutes to get to any tier 1 from PCS on the main line and 45 via the short cuts thus the time to any tier 1 is 20 minutes)

{TABLE]Station Type| # of stations| # of routs| # of locations per line| total locations this tier| line type| time between jumps| # minutes per cycle| max wait to next tier up or down| Max time to any other| in houres|1|1
Primordium Central| =1 |not a line |not a line |not a line |not a line |=5 |=MAX(H3:H9)|=IF(1,"20(30 to any tier two)","manually counted")| =30+I6+I8| =J2/60||2
1st cycle| =(C3*D3)-B2 |=1| =9| =D3*C3 |main line |=H3/D3 |=45| =IF(1,20,"see tier 1 time table below")|=I3+I4+I6+I8 |=J3/60||3
2nd per direction| =C3*D3*(D4-2)| =C3*D3| =18| =(D4-1)*C4 |color line |=H4/D4 |=90 |=IF(1,20,"see tier 2 time table below")|=I4+I3+I4+I6+I8| =J4/60||4
2nd cycle total| =B4| =C4*2| =D4| =E4| =F4| =G4| =H4| =I4| =J4| =K4||5
3rd per direction| =(D6-1-(IF(L1,1,0)))*D4*C4| =C4*(D4-1)| =36| =(D6-(IF(L1,1,0)))*C6| tertiary| =H6/D6 |=180| =IF(1,IF(L1,45,90),("see tier 3 time table below"))|=I6+I4+I3+I4+I6+I8|=J6/60||6
3rd cycle total| =B6| =C6*2| =D6| =E6| =F6| =G6| =H6| =I6| =J6| =K6||7
4th per direction| =C6*D6*(D8-1)| =C6*(D6-(IF(L1,1,0)))| =9| =D8*C8| quandary| =H8/D8| =45| =IF(1,30,"see tier 3 time table below")|=I8+I6+I4+I3+I4+I6+I8| =J8/60||8
4th cycle total| =B8 |=C8*2 |=D8 |=E8 |=F8 |=G8 |=H8 |=I8 |=J8 |=K8||9
A|B|C|D|E|F|G|H|I|J|K|L|
[/TABLE]

tier 1 time table

{TABLE]tier 1| start point|||| farthest |& opposite|||
Name of location| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9|
distance from PCS| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 5| 4| 3| 2|
time to root| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 20| 15| 10| 5|
[/TABLE]

tier 2 time table

{TABLE]tier 2| start point| || |farthest|pair | || |opposite| | ||farthest|pair|||
Name of location| A| B| C| D| E| F| G| H| I| J| K| L| M| N| O| P| Q| R|
Distance from root| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9| 10| 9| 8| 7| 6| 5| 4| 3| 2
time to root| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 25| 30| 35| 40| 45| 40| 35| 30| 25| 20| 15| 10| 5
Distance from T1| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 5| 4| 3| 2| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 5| 4| 3| 2|
time to T1| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 20| 15| 10| 5| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 20| 15| 10| 5|
[/TABLE]

tier 3 time table if not using my suggestion ignore the bottom two rows
You can cut this table and if you past it in to the upper left corner of an XL spread sheet it should work just line my copy I have tested this.
this is what my notes look like in excel the formulas are below

{TABLE]tier 3 |start point|| | | | | | | |farthest| | | | | | | | |opposite| | | | | | | | |farthest| | | | | | | |
Name of location| 01| 02| 03| 04| 05| 06| 07| 08| 09| 10| 11| 12| 13| 14| 15| 16| 17| 18| 19| 20| 21| 22| 23| 24| 25| 26| 27| 28| 29| 30| 31| 32| 33| 34| 35| 36
distance from root| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9| 10| 11| 12| 13| 14| 15| 16| 17| 18| 19| 18| 17| 16| 15| 14| 13| 12| 11| 10| 9| 8| 7| 6| 5| 4| 3| 2|
time to root| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 25| 30| 35| 40| 45| 50| 55| 60| 65| 70| 75| 80| 85| 90| 85| 80| 75| 70| 65| 60| 55| 50| 45| 40| 35| 30| 25| 20| 15| 10| 5
distance from T2| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9| 10| 9| 8| 7| 6| 5| 4| 3| 2| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9| 10| 9| 8| 7| 6| 5| 4| 3| 2|
time to T2| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 25| 30| 35| 40| 45| 40| 35| 30| 25| 20| 15| 10| 5| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 25| 30| 35| 40| 45| 40| 35| 30| 25| 20| 15| 10| 5|
[/TABLE]


tier 4 time table

{TABLE]tier 4 |start point|| | |farthest |& opposite|||
Name of location| a| b| c| d| e| f| g| h| i
Distance from T3| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 5| 4| 3| 2
time to T3| 0| 5| 10| 15| 20| 20| 15| 10| 5
[/TABLE]





also i think it is a bad idea to cut the tertiary and quandary lines at consolidated second line stations (if that is what you mean by “one chamber at each stop for each direction, 2 per tier/per line in cases such as Primordium Central where there is more than one Tier 2 line”) as this vastly reduces the number of stops in the network each time (each tier three lost costs 36*9=324 stations 36 of which are tertiary) stops from the total network I think it is quite tenable to say a consolidated station would have one of its tertiary stations a ways out on the up river side of the station and the other a ways out down river from the station so they maintain reasonable dispersion and minimal if any interlace while not leaving any area unserviced.

Also take a look at this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8543269#post8543269).

@Silverscale: obviously both of us feel very strongly about this how about we both step back and see what everyone else thinks?
Also congrats on placing the foundation of the wiki I have had a glance and what I have seen looks fairly well organized, considering the way the discussion has rambled and mixed points that is no small feat (I will likely work some wiki magic in the near future).

Also perfect efficiency would technically be one shift to any where an untenable system by any reckoning :smallwink:.

Owrtho
2010-05-23, 03:34 AM
Looking at the wiki, the Herald of the deep master seems like it should have the portal ability changed. Mainly due to the change in what the aberration district is (and with the portals being changed to normal gates and Alliance holes). That said, I'm not quite sure what it should change too, but perhaps either something based on them being called heralds or just going the easy way and giving them aberration blood as a bonus feat (and perhaps one other feet from that group).

Also, just a note on the typing stuff on the wiki, be careful about putting in wiki text. Some examples would be ---- or ~~~ (or ~~~~) which change into things. this can be avoided by using putting `` on either end of it though (the `` is used to tell it not to take something as wikitext). There are others also and they can be found in the help menu.

Owrtho

ForzaFiori
2010-05-23, 06:50 AM
Blizme, I think your off a bit on your calculations about the Teir 3 stations. In Silverscales, there are two sets of 18 stations, one going up to the top and wrapping around, the other going down to the bottom and around.

like this:

-----11---9----- Top of Canyon
~~~12~~8~~~
~~~13~~7~~~
~~~14~~6~~~
~~~15~~5~~~
~~~16~~4~~~
~~~17~~3~~~
~~~18~~2~~~
~~~1~~~1~~~
~~~2~~~18~~~
~~~3~~~17~~~
~~~4~~~16~~~
~~~5~~~15~~~
~~~6~~~14~~~
~~~7~~~13~~~
~~~8~~~12~~~
~~~9~~~11~~~
-----10---10---- Bottom of Canyon

Therefor, you are, AT MOST, ten stations away from your tertiary stop. By making your needlessly complex of confusing pattern, your saving one stop from the longest trip. 5 minutes. Unfortunately, figuring out where your crazy figure eight loop goes will probably make each customer spend those 5 minutes all over again.

Silverscale
2010-05-23, 12:48 PM
Blizme, I think your off a bit on your calculations about the Teir 3 stations. In Silverscales, there are two sets of 18 stations, one going up to the top and wrapping around, the other going down to the bottom and around.

like this:

-----11---9----- Top of Canyon
~~~12~~8~~~
~~~13~~7~~~
~~~14~~6~~~
~~~15~~5~~~
~~~16~~4~~~
~~~17~~3~~~
~~~18~~2~~~
~~~1~~~1~~~
~~~2~~~18~~~
~~~3~~~17~~~
~~~4~~~16~~~
~~~5~~~15~~~
~~~6~~~14~~~
~~~7~~~13~~~
~~~8~~~12~~~
~~~9~~~11~~~
-----10---10---- Bottom of Canyon

Therefor, you are, AT MOST, ten stations away from your tertiary stop. By making your needlessly complex of confusing pattern, your saving one stop from the longest trip. 5 minutes. Unfortunately, figuring out where your crazy figure eight loop goes will probably make each customer spend those 5 minutes all over again.

Actually now that I'm fully awake whilst looking at this and not frustrated with trying to get things onto the Wiki in some semblance of organization, among other things that have been frustrating me lately.....I think BLiZme.2 has a point.....

@BLiZme.2 Sorry for yelling. Sometimes I get over excited.

If I understand correctly in your model which is almost exactly the same as mine with the addition of a "figure-8" on the Secondary and Tertiary lines then you've actually done a very smart thing.

For the sake of simplicity, lets say that all stops on a line are arranged, evenly spaced around a circle with Station 1 at the top of the circle and station 10 at the bottom of the circle in an 18 stop line. What you've done is cut the circle in half with a jump back to 1 before going on to station 11. Thus instead of the longest possible ride being (the number of stops in the line divided by 2) you've made it (the number of stops in the line divided by 4).

If I have once again miss-interpreted please tell me.

BRC
2010-05-23, 01:31 PM
I think an NPC list could be added to the Wiki, for start I'm going to add the ones from Graveyard Shift


Detective Gordon Tordly
Race: Corporeal Undead (Human)
Profession: MI Detective
Alignment: LN
Gordon Tordley joined MI as a young man, and quickly became a bitter a callous soul. When he was killed by an Alliance thug, the primary change was that he started wearing dark glasses. Gordon is in rather good shape for an Undead, magic and makeup make him look decently human, and it takes a DC 20 spot check to notice the stiffness of his movements, or the odd color of his skin that gives him away as undead. Of course, his eyes are still clouded over with death, which is why he wears the glasses to hide them.

Gordon is very determined to do his duty. He hates the rampant crime in Ishka, but, like most experienced MI's, has learned to accept that it cannot be changed. He is a skilled investigator, he does not tire nor sleep, and once he gets a lead is known to follow it doggedly to the end.

Gordon in the Campaign: If the PC's get involved with a crime MI is investigating, Gordon may be used.
As an Ally, he will appreciate the PC's help, but unless they are trained law enforcement personnel, will likely degrade them for being amateurs. He is not so bitter as to actually impede them or refuse their assistance, but he will likely grumble about it. If the PC's screw up the investigation, Gordon will try to get them out as fast as possible.

As an Enemy Gordon will dog the PC's, using every tool he has to track them down. He will not actually attempt an arrest until he is certain the PC's are guilty, and will try to take them on alone or with a few other MI's. If it's clear he cannot overcome them physically by himself, Gordon will bring all the backup he can to ensure a successful arrest.
__________________________________________________ ______________
Frankie Lakree
Race: Half-Devil Orc
Profession: Alliance Boss

Frankie Lakree works out of a used bookshop and looks as harmless as a orcish half-devil can. He's somewhat overweight and is fond of smoking cheap cigars and speaking in an overly friendly tone. In fact, he is one of the sharpest criminal minds in the city. Though the Alliance does do major crimes, it survives on the thousands of petty crimes that happen every day, and Frankie coordinates most of those. Petty thefts, Safe houses, extortion rackets, embezzlement. Frankie is the ultimate middleman, and he gets a cut of almost everything that happens in the Alliance. However, he's distant enough from any crimes to avoid legal prosecution, allowing him to work almost openly.

He seems friendly, but Frankie is as ruthless as he is intelligent. He started as low-layer thug, and runs his operation like a business. Anybody who crosses him is likely to receive a stern warning, if they refuse, they'll end up dead or in the vault.


Frankie in the Campaign
As an Ally, Frankie is resourceful. He will do little directly, but he will gladly introduce the PC's to any number of people who can help them. If you need information, equipment, a safehouse, an alibi, or almost anything else, Frankie can probably get it for you. However, his services always come with a price, frequently in the form of "Favors", which he will collect on.
Frankie knows that MI tolerates him because he keeps things organized, doesn't get involved in anything too nasty, and is more trouble than he's worth to take down. However, if the PC's start stirring up too much trouble, Frankie will cut ties with them without a moments hesitation.

As a foe, Frankie is incredibly dangerous. He won't do anything directly, but depending on how much he wants the PC's stopped, he will cause trouble for them at every turn. Thugs waiting in the alleyways, hitmen stalking over rooftops, he'll even use the legitimate authorities against the PC's. However, he will leave you alone if the PC's make it clear that he would lose more by taking them down than by letting them live.

Owrtho
2010-05-23, 02:36 PM
Good idea. As a suggestion for putting that on the wiki, make a new page for notable NPCs (linked from the stories page) then have each of them link to their first appearance in their story on the stories page (or at least the first chapter they show in). For example you might put the header for Franky

Frankie Lakree
**Race:** Half-Devil Orc
**Profession:** Alliance Boss
**From:** [[Stories about Ishka#GS1|Graveyard Shift]]
**First Appearance:** [[Stories about Ishka#GS9|Episode 9]]
(this is in wikitext, the **'s make the enclosed text bold while the other thing is the proper format for the link's (in this case to the correct place once I update the page to have links to all the stories added after episode 6).

Also, a suggestion, perhaps we could make some background feats (or something) for the various districts. Possibly they would add about balanced benefits and penalties and also grant another feat (so as not actually using up your feat), but only be able to be taken at level 1.
For example:
Ravenshome Raised (District)
Having grown up in Ravenshome, you have developed a good memory for the sake of learning any rules or guidelines, as well as quick reflexes to follow them. Unfortunately due to the lack of more mundane hazards your knowledge of general city survival has suffered as have your responses to combat.
Benefits: You gain a +2 bonus to all knowledge checks as well as a +1 bonus to reflex saves. You may also always appear as Lawful to any spells or abilities detecting alignment, and requirements for feats or PRCs requiring the Lawful alignment regardless of your actual alignment. You gain a bonus feat.
Penalties: You take a -2 penalty to Urban Survival and tumble checks as well as a -1 penalty to your Dex bonus to AC and your initiative bonus. Your history of following rules also causes a -2 penalty for all checks and saves to avoid obeying another person provided the dictated actions aren't illegal.

Also, an idea for an effect on people due to the magical taint in Ishka (needs a name).
There are some people who repress various feelings, impulses, etc. So much so that given the appropriate stimulus (normally shock or trauma), it would develop into another personality. However, due to the amount of magical pollution in Ishka, sometimes these repressed emotions get warped and become their own beings. Lacking a body or anything else however, they are bound to the person they came from and can only communicate with them.
They are however able to move a short distance from the person and can explore the environment. Lacking a body or form of any kind, they can pass through barriers that don't block thoughts (such as anti mind reading barriers, they aren't blocked by walls of force or the like though). While this might be thought of by some as a useful ability, it is generally much less so. They are almost always chaotic and at odds with the actions of the person they are from, and usually give bad ideas or intentionally misinform them to make them do what they want.
A whatever it's called lacks not only a body, but also a soul. They are simply a separate personality, given freedom by magic. They do not rely on magic to exist however, and as such would could survive in an antimagic field, though they would lose their ability to move separate from the person they are from for the duration of their stay there. Some however have managed to gain more magical energy allowing them to occasionally manipulate physical objects.
While one would expect a large number to be in Ravenshome (as almost anyone raised there has the necessary mindset to make one), there are actually surprisingly few there. The reason is that the magical energies needed are oddly absent in Ravenshome (as is most of the magic pollution found in the rest of Ishka). However, when someone from Ravenshome goes to another district, there is a reasonable chance they might encounter the magic needed to create one (and a more than reasonable chance they will be capable of making one). Their incessant suggestions to break the rules however make this a less than desirable trait for life there however.

Not quite sure how this would best be incorporated. I could see it as either a feat or a template, with a PRC to progress it and gain more benefits. Some general ideas though would be the ability to make a diplomacy/sense motive check to gain a boost to knowledge checks and gather information checks (possibly listen and/or spot), but have to make will saves to avoid listening to the suggestions to break laws or the like. The PRC would likely gain benefits like boosts to attack and dex bonus to AC, as well as so things like the ability for it to occasionally deflect projectiles for you, more reliable information gathering, and bad will saves as well as being more susceptible to its suggestions (you need to give some to get some). Unlawful people would likely tend to get along better with theirs.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-23, 06:08 PM
@BRC: Love the idea to put up NPC's. Would you mind if I put up some NPC's of my own?

@Owrtho: I like the idea of District based Feats and what you've got for the Ravenshome Feat. Not sure about your magical taint idea....yes I think there should be something to account for the effect of all the loose magic of Ishka, I don't know that that's necessarily where I would have gone with it.

BRC
2010-05-23, 06:26 PM
@BRC: Love the idea to put up NPC's. Would you mind if I put up some NPC's of my own?

Go right ahead.

Silverscale
2010-05-23, 07:37 PM
Go right ahead.

Well here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124654) a link to the original thread I put up a while back. This is a group of Bards who would likely be encountered in the Entertainment District or perhaps wandering around Galdren. If people like them I'll copy/paste them onto the NPC page

Owrtho
2010-05-23, 08:02 PM
Not sure about your magical taint idea....yes I think there should be something to account for the effect of all the loose magic of Ishka, I don't know that that's necessarily where I would have gone with it.

Well, I thought of the idea when I thought it would be funny to have someone who lives in Ravenshome with a spirit always trying to give them bad advice and make them break the rules and only they could hear and see it. The problem was that if there was such a spirit, it would clearly be breaking the rules and thus vanished (initially the idea was that there are some ghosts among the gambling group that feel the need to try improving the odds, so give tips good or bad depending on what they bet on to the person, and some people are for some reason almost always being bet on). As such I thought at first of them being insane, but that didn't quite fit as the thing would know stuff that the person couldn't. Thus I came up with that.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-23, 08:44 PM
That does seem like an interesting idea.

Fable Wright
2010-05-24, 02:44 PM
Umm... trying to find the skeleton template here... not going well...

Owrtho
2010-05-24, 02:54 PM
Did you check the wiki? It can be found under the link on the Races and Variant Rules on the main page, or Stats on the side panel.

Owrtho

Owrtho
2010-05-25, 04:24 PM
Ishka belongs not on the second page.

Well, thought I'd make an explanation of what district feats are and copy the Ravenshome one as I forgot the requirements. Ideas for what other districts would grant would also be good (as would fully made district feats).

District Feats
District feats represent having be raised in a specific district for a notable portion of your early life. All district feats require that they be taken at first level and that you have no other district feats. Each district feat comes with both benefits and penalties for having been raised in it. Many also grant an additional feat.

Ravenshome Raised (District)
Having grown up in Ravenshome, you have developed a good memory for the sake of learning any rules or guidelines, as well as quick reflexes to follow them. Unfortunately due to the lack of more mundane hazards your knowledge of general city survival has suffered as have your responses to combat.
Prerequisites: 1st level, no other district feats, raised in Ravenshome
Benefits: You gain a +2 bonus to all knowledge checks as well as a +1 bonus to reflex saves. You may also always appear as Lawful to any spells or abilities detecting alignment, and requirements for feats or PRCs requiring the Lawful alignment regardless of your actual alignment. You gain a bonus feat.
Penalties: You take a -2 penalty to Urban Survival and tumble checks as well as a -1 penalty to your Dex bonus to AC and your initiative bonus. Your history of following rules also causes a -2 penalty for all checks and saves to avoid obeying another person provided the dictated actions aren't illegal.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-05-25, 07:08 PM
Mages District Raised(District)
Having grown up in The Mage's District, you have some innate talent for magic due to the ambient magic so prevalent in the area, however being raised in an area with so much magical radiation also has some drawbacks.

Prerequisites: 1st level, no other district feats, raised in The Mages District.
Benefits: Chose one arcane cantrip, you may use it as an At-will ability.
Penalty: When you use your At-will cantrip ability roll d6 on the following table:
1 - Nothing happens, spell does not work.
2 - Spell goes off but is delayed 1d4 rounds.
3 - Spell goes off but your hair changes color randomly and stays that way for 1d4 hours.
4 - Spell has reverse effect.
5 - Spell has no effect and you take 1d4Non-lethal back-lash damage.
6 - Spell goes off normally.

Owrtho
2010-05-25, 09:15 PM
I was actually thinking of something similar to that for mage district (the at will cantrip), but couldn't think of a drawback. I notice you didn't grant an extra feat with it, but it seems like it is strong enough to make sense that it doesn't. Seems like some other type of penalty could be useful though (as the current one only effects the ability gained which is wholly optional to use).

Perhaps something like having grown up using magic you're more adept at using it such that the arcane failure penalty of armor is reduced (possibly treated as a category lower), but due to bad habits learned through improper teaching you have a base arcane failure of 5% (doesn't stack with that granted from other sources).

Owrtho

BLiZme.2
2010-05-26, 02:34 AM
@Silverscale: it’s ok it happens to everyone in general you are correct if I read you right (the their two short cut was your idea by the way
QUOTE=Silverscale;8370597]The only nitpick I have with the system as currently written is that NO Primary station should be connected to all Third Cycle Lines as that would mean that there are hundreds of Third Cycle Chambers in Primordium Central. It should be connected to ALL Secondary Lines as there are only nine of those.

Here is exactly what I think should be found in Primordium Central Station other than the shops, ticket booth, etc.
--One Tier 1 Chamber (As there are only 9 stops on the whole line it just runs in a continuous cycle)
--18 Tier 2 Chambers (9 Lines cycling "Forward", 9 Lines cycling in "Reverse")
--Two Tier 3 Chambers (One cycling up the layers {when it gets to the top of the canyon, it cycles straight to the bottom to start the cycle over}. One cycling down the layers {when it gets to the bottom of the canyon, it cycles straight to the top to start the cycle over}
--Two Tier 4 Chambers (Similar to the way the Tier 3 work only this time cycling "left-right" and "right-left"[/QUOTE]). Remember? You were frustrated by my suggestion all tier threes should connect to PCS and asserted it should be all tier twos instead). I just specified that the tier two connections to PCS were the opposite station and pointed out that the white line should be connected twice. Now adding a second pair of tier threes to all main and color line stops was my idea, but I had it after looking at the benefits of your idea (which looks to have been inspired by my earlier bad idea). Your math is essentially correct I cut the circle in half by stretching the connections to location 10 and putting that in station 1. Thus traveling time = {(# of stations -1 root station- 1 short cut location)/(2 for bidirectional)/(2 for two path choices)max number of jumps to next level up}*(5 minutes per jump) which for 18 is 20 minutes. Without the modification the equation is traveling time = {(# of stations -1 root station)/(2 for bidirectional) max number of jumps to next level up}*(5 minutes per jump) which for 18 is 45 minutes.

@ForzaFiori you are in error in ether version of the network there are 9 main line locations, 18 color line locations, 36 tertiary locations, and 9 quandary locations (this means there are two sets of 36 stops one set heeding up and the other heading down in 36 locations. {Each location having one pair of stops one up one down.}) Pleas reread my lexicon as this may solve the dilemma or allow you to point out any inconsistency it may have.
lexicon re post

Stop: the place one Carriage sits at in a station
location: the place where a line stops i.e. the spin ward and counter spin ward stations stops for one line referred to as a set (one station can have two locations on the same line in it. For example the white line has two locations on the main line stop that is the root of the white line (Primordium Central Station) and a the 9th stop on the white line which is the Primordium shortcut location for the white line).
Root: the first location on a line.
Station: the building one or more locations are housed in often with a ticket counter and shops.
line: the set of both routs that share the same set of locations in reverses order from each other, each line location is numbered the same as one of its component lines which line is chosen arbitrarily the matching rout is called the spin ward rout the other is counter spin ward.
Spin ward: the direction of the main rout of a line {alternately the rout or a carriage Traveling that direction} (up river is spin ward for tier 2)(up layers is spin ward for tier 3)(to the right when facing up river is spin ward for tier 4).
Counter spin ward: the rout that is in the opposite direction of spin ward.
Rout: a collection of stops in a given order each stops on a line has a number, one station in each rout is connected to the next highest line and is called the main location or root of that line, and is numbered 1, Primordium Central Station is the root of the main line.
Farthest point/Farthest location: the station or stations that are located farthest from any station of the next tier up measured in station jumps.
Opposite station/Opposite location: the station located farthest from a given lines root measured in station jumps on that line (distinct from Farthest point in that it only counts the first location on a line as a valid location and not the shortcut location. ex. the main line necropolis station (the black line root) is counted but the black line short cut location in Primordium Central Station is not thus the short cut location is the opposite station).
Sort cut location: a location that is in a higher tier station than the current line but is not the root location of the line.
Chamber/ Carriage: the part of a station that actually teleports.

In ether version of the network the root of all the lines except the main line (PCS) is in the same station as at least 1 stop in the next tier up. There are at least 13(14 with my mod) distinct locations in PCS on 12 lines (ether version) (the white line is there twice as the PCS’s color line and the white line short cut location is the second(the PCS tertiary line, short cut location would be the other double represented line in my version).
they are thus arranged like this

{TABLE]
spin wise Rout| counter spin wise Rout| jumps from root station |time in minutes |info
18|20|17|85|top of canyon
17|21|16|80|
16|22|15|75|
15|23|14|70|
14|24|13|65|
13|25|12|60|
12|26|11|55|
11|27|10|50|
10|28|9|45|
9|29|8|40|
8|30|7|35|
7|31|6|30|
6|32|5|25|
5|33|4|20|
4|34|3|15|
3|35|2|10|
2|36|1|5|
1|1|0|0|Root location & middle of canyon
36|2|1|5|
35|3|2|10|
34|4|3|15|
33|5|4|20|
32|6|5|25|
31|7|6|30|
30|8|7|35|
29|9|8|40|
28|10|9|45|
27|11|10|50|
26|12|11|55|
25|13|12|60|
24|14|13|65|
23|15|14|70|
22|16|15|75|
21|17|16|80|
20|18|17|85|
19|19|18|90|opposite location, farthest point & bottom of canyon could be top in stead
[/TABLE]

or this my mod

{TABLE]
spin wise Rout| counter spin wise Rout| jumps from root station |time in minutes |info
18|20|17|5|top of canyon
17|21|16|10|
16|22|15|15|
15|23|14|20|
14|24|13|25|
13|25|12|30|
12|26|11|35|
11|27|10|40|
10|28|9|45| farthest point A
9|29|8|40|
8|30|7|35|
7|31|6|30|
6|32|5|25|
5|33|4|20|
4|34|3|15|
3|35|2|10|
2|36|1|5|
1&19|1&19|0|0|Root location, opposite location & middle of canyon
36|2|1|5|
35|3|2|10|
34|4|3|15|
33|5|4|20|
32|6|5|25|
31|7|6|30|
30|8|7|35|
29|9|8|40|
28|10|9|45| farthest point B
27|11|10|40|
26|12|11|35|
25|13|12|30|
24|14|13|25|
23|15|14|20|
22|16|15|15|
21|17|16|10|
20|18|17|5| bottom of canyon
[/TABLE]

lastly you are not counting the stations correctly while assuming your initial premise that we are talking about a line with 18 locations 10 10 is indeed the opposite station and without a short cut the farthest station 10 10 is only 9 jumps or stations away from the root. Because the station only makes 9 jumps to get there but that means you are in a total of 10 stations over the whole trip. Don’t sweat it though counting errors like this happen in programming ALL the time and are easy y to miss. I do not understand how you reached the conclusion this would only remove 5 minutes as you can start or end at their location 1 1 or 19 19 as they are in the same station and thus only a few feet to a few yards tops away from each other.
Plus the shortest rough to PCS is clearly marked throughout the network so that should make things easier (how about we use in to refer to riding a station heading ward PCS and out to mean heading away). So an example of station directions could be get on quandary 6C34d and ride it in to the tertiary then ride it out two stations and then ride out counter 4 stations and you shoulder be at station 6C32i. In more normal language start at the specified quandary station 6C34d, then follow the to PCS arrow until you are at the tertiary station associated with the quandary, then ride against the to PCS arrow on the tertiary line for 2 jumps, finally ride counter spin wise against the arrow for 4 stations, then you will be at quandary 6C32i.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-26, 05:01 AM
Silverscale Your NPCs need a little tweaking to fit in Ishka but in my opinion they would be a fine addition.
As to regional feats in general other wordbooks usually have them be slightly better than other feats with the draw back of limiting you to one and requiring you take it at first level the idea of giving you an ability a drawback and another feet seams balanced wit the same only one only at LV1 limitation but I think the bonus feet should be off a limited list based on the district you are from so I could not take say skill focus slight of hand as my ravenshome(also +2 to ALL knowledge skills is to much{especially with the other 2 abilities}. Maybe make it chose any 1 or maybe 2) raised bonus feat other than that this seems ok.
Silverscale’s feat seems good (maybe even a little week?) with out play testing I’m not convinced.
Also there should be a feet for corporeal undead to represent the gentle repose tattoos like Gordon has because his situation dose not just represent the magic tattoos it also represents the luck he had in coming to quickly and being in a position to get them right away otherwise the tattoos would mainly just keep your smell down as opposed to make you look normal (if others agree I will right it up and the tattoos as a magic item for the less lucky). Also BRC is Gordon a Generic skeleton (he is new relatively to undeath and still has his flesh {in theory as described a generic skeleton could use mending [and or make whole] regularly coupled with gentle repose to remain virtually unchanging in appearance}) Generic zombie or something else?

Let me try one
Collected collages raised (District)
Being raised around academics you picked up a vast array of trivia and learned exultant study skills but you are easily distracted and may miss things or social clues
Prerequisites: 1st level, no other district feats, raised in The Collected collages
Benefits: All of your classes treat every knowledge skill as a trained skill and you may answer difficult questions (DC 10+) if you are untrained at -5 further you may learn one extra arcane spell of the highest level you know every 5 levels. Choose one of the following as a bonus feat {Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Skill Focus(any knoladge, aprase, craft, spell craft, desipher script,)}
Penalty: -1 to bluff and passive listen and spot checks
May be op

Silverscale
2010-05-26, 11:14 AM
Silverscale Your NPCs need a little tweaking to fit in Ishka but in my opinion they would be a fine addition.Thanks. They were origionally written up for regular D&D but when I post them to the Wiki I'll tweak them to fit a little better into Ishka fluff-wise


Silverscale’s feat seems good (maybe even a little weak?) with out play testing I’m not convinced.
If it seems a little weak perhaps make it a level 1 At-Will spell and have the penalty apply to all cantrips and 1st level spells?

Silverscale
2010-05-26, 03:19 PM
I put up the NPC page and made a couple of edits to Earth, Wind,and Fire so they would fit better into Ishka. If anyone else has ideas for NPCs or wants to do a write-up for ones we already have feel free.

Silverscale
2010-05-27, 10:18 AM
I've added several "Warforged" Feats to the Construct page and edited the entry for "Sphen" to make it a nature preserve in The Port District.

I've also edited "The Chambers" to make it a sub-section of The Vault, and "Shadowgate" to be a sub-section of Everdark.

I've gotten permission to post other "Warforged" Feats that I found on the forums, but I'll do that when I get home.

We still need a write up for "The Entertainment District" and "The Lake District" if anyone wants to tackle those.

Silverscale
2010-05-28, 11:56 AM
Not the Second Page....

Just had a thought about the Stations that would make getting around easier. Since having a map of the entire Station system would be confusing at best, even the Great Map in the center of P.C.S. only have the Primary line's stops highlighted, ho wabout if there is a map above the door to each chamber which shows all stops on the line with direction noted and the currect station highlighted. That way no matter how complex we decide to make everything, people can easily figure out how to get where they want to go by looking at the Station map near the Chamber doors to see which one will take them to their destination the quickest.

Something like this:
Primordium Central Station --> Central Station 2 --> Central Station 3 --> Central Station 4 --> Central Station 5 --> Central Station 6 --> Central Station 7 --> Central Station 8 --> P.C.S.

And the one above the other Primary Line Chamber would read:
Primordium Central Station --> Central Station 8 --> Central Station 7 --> Central Station 6 --> Central Station 5 --> Central Station 4 --> Central Station 3 --> Central Station 2 --> P.C.S.

Owrtho
2010-05-28, 03:27 PM
That makes sense. Would be much the same as bus stops listing the times and others stops for each bus that stops there (at least where I live).

Owrtho

BLiZme.2
2010-05-29, 03:38 AM
That’s a lot like my earlier suggestion I like it maybe we can merge the two? I have a relative sketch map of the station net mapped out you should be able to find it here (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/Station/?action=view&current=Stationmap.jpg).{fixed link}

Silverscale
2010-05-29, 06:10 PM
I think I've got the Wiki pretty well linked together now....still have several things that need to be edited down into a cohesive write-up. As I keep saying, if anyone wants to tackle some of the write-ups feel free.....I'm starting to get the impression I'm the only one trying to make this as complete as we can. We still have about 25 more District Feats to come up with, 2 more Districts that never got an official write-up, probably some districts that need a Rope-Ball team, The Firefighters never got a proper write-up, M.I. Headquarters, maybe some other Streetbuilder Projects, maybe some other campaign starters.....etc.

Owrtho
2010-05-29, 06:21 PM
Well, haven't gotten to do much work on the wiki recently, but I plan to try working on it some when I get the chance. I've been trying to check every so often and make sure there isn't much in the way of errors though.

Owrtho

BLiZme.2
2010-05-30, 02:40 PM
I haven’t been able to get on the computer for very long sense I came home from school so working on the wiki has not been as easy as I would have hoped. I’ll try to do some condensing and rephrasing today. If I can (when i)get my station sketch (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/Station/?action=view&current=Stationmap.jpg)up here first.
{Fixed Link}

BLiZme.2
2010-05-30, 04:55 PM
Also did we ever come to a conclusion as to the name of the river lake and canyon earlier I suggested
I suggest The Rowalaz River, Fissure Canyon, and Lake Leayoratus(the lake name sounds mermish to me and the original inhabitants were merpeople this it makes sense).
Some other thinks specified that we nee to work out in detailed are
The tightly controlled version of Detect Magic, (so the backlash does not blind you), (also the affects of the normal version), (how Ishkan wizards often get sensory overload when casting detect magic and its game effects)?
General rules for Divination spells being interfered with?
Scrying Beacons what are these exactly (the idea is clear we just need a reference to or to write up the rules)?
I will amend this list as I find more on the wiki all of this so far is on the main page I will note the page an issue is on

While editing the wiki main page I added my assessment of the general percent breakdown of nonstandard ad in the currency entry on the wiki feel free to take it down (and discuss alternatives here) if you don’t agree here it is for reference
~60% of astral diamonds are set in coins valued at 10,000pp
"common" official values for ad are
5,000pp,~10%
10,000pp,~60%
15,000pp,~15%
20,000pp,~5%
30,000pp,~4%
50,000pp,~3%
75,000pp,~2%
100,000pp,~1%
other coins go up by 50,000pp intervals and make up less than 1%

Silverscale
2010-05-30, 08:45 PM
@The River, Canyon, Lake names, I don't know if we ever said anything about them yay or nay but I put them up on the Wiki anyway since there weren't any other ideas put out.

@Astral Diamonds: I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. What we came up with for currency doesn't follow standard rules for coinage, close but certainly more in-depth. Please explain what you're getting at so I can understand what the problem is.

I took a look at your Station Sketch and I can't read your writing but the picture sorta made sense. Now just imagine that every single primary stop links to a loop of secondary stops, each of which links to a loop of tertiary stops, each of which links to a look of quaternary stops.....now you see why trying to map out the whole system is a cartographer's nightmare.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-31, 01:01 PM
The upper left not says “The {insert small diagram} notation means that the farthest station from PCS on tier 2 and are noted by there letter. The left letter station reaches PCS by heading to its tier 2 root then along the main line shortest path PCS. The right letter reaches PCS by that tier 2's short cut station. If there is only one letter per letter, letter node that means ether rout is the same distance. The inner number is the time to PCS by the shortest rout the other number is a main line station."
The upper right note is pointing at the square numbered 18 and says "counting aid for location 18 which in the modified network is in the same station as location 1, in the unmodified network this is the farthest point."
The note in the lower right says "counting aid for station J all of these are connected to PCS."
the notes next to the arrows pointing from the words farthest point indicate what line this is the farthest point for and if there are more than one how many and if there is another group it says how many that line has in total so
"t1x2 " means tier 1 2 farthest point stations here no others on this line,
"t2x2of4" means tier 2 2 farthest point stations here there are two other farthest points station,
t31of2 means tier 3 1 farthest point station here there is one other farthest point station,
"t4 "means tier 4 farthest point station no others on this line.
text in italics is corrected the diagram text is in error.

about the currency 1 the wiki did not have my note about what a diamond piece was so I put that in. 2 when I initially suggested ad currency I mentioned that different value diamonds would be set in different value coins I jus inserted my guess as to the distribution of those different values and the numbers I think official appraisals should round to of coinage.

Silverscale
2010-05-31, 03:25 PM
The upper left not says “The {insert small diagram} notation means that the farthest station from PCS on tier 2 and are noted by there letter. The left letter station reaches PCS by heading to its tier 2 root then along the main line shortest path PCS. The right letter reaches PCS by that tier 2's short cut station. If there is only one letter per letter, letter node that means ether rout is the same distance. The inner number is the time to PCS by the shortest rout the other number is a main line station."
The upper right note is pointing at the square numbered 18 and says "counting aid for location 18 which in the modified network is in the same station as location 1, in the unmodified network this is the farthest point."
The note in the lower right says "counting aid for station J all of these are connected to PCS."
the notes next to the arrows pointing from the words farthest point indicate what line this is the farthest point for and if there are more than one how many and if there is another group it says how many that line has in total so
"t1x2 " means tier 1 2 farthest point stations here no others on this line,
"t2x2of4" means tier 2 2 farthest point stations here there are two other farthest points station,
t31of2 means tier 3 1 farthest point station here there is one other farthest point station,
"t4 "means tier 4 farthest point station no others on this line.
text in italics is corrected the diagram text is in error.This is all very confusign to me but if it makes sense to you then roll with it for your campaign.


about the currency 1 the wiki did not have my note about what a diamond piece was so I put that in. 2 when I initially suggested ad currency I mentioned that different value diamonds would be set in different value coins I jus inserted my guess as to the distribution of those different values and the numbers I think official appraisals should round to of coinage.So basically "Astral Diamond" is a catch all term for high-denomination coinage?

ForzaFiori
2010-05-31, 03:36 PM
So basically "Astral Diamond" is a catch all term for high-denomination coinage?

Seems like it. I think that, basically, to make very high denominations, they take platinum pieces, and stud them with varying amounts of Astral Diamonds. The more diamonds, the more the coin is worth. That way, you don't have huge amounts of platinum in your purse weighing you down, or wind up carrying bars of gold or something.

Erutaron
2010-05-31, 05:11 PM
Something I'm including in my campaign, I'll be adding a few more things as I go through my notes.


Business: Downpour
Location: The Port District
Type: Restaurant

Downpour is one f the newest establishments in town. Arranged to cater to the aquatic, it is always raining slightly inside. You will often see Sea-elves and Water elementals performing in the central pool, or bands of Lizardfolk, Locathah and Sahuagin mercenaries chumming it up for shark-steaks.
The merfolk waitresses swim around through small streams set in the floor to take your orders.
The owner is a stunningly beautiful nymph who is only ever seen completely covered in an exquisitely decorated shawl to conceal herself. It is said she deals with anyone who misbehaves personally.

Renrik
2010-05-31, 05:43 PM
Character: Chomski the Gnome, Labor Advocate

This elderly gnome (truenamer 9) is one of the leading advocates of the radical ideas of the Collective labor union, and a critic of Ishka's upper class and academic scene (of which he is a part).

ForzaFiori
2010-05-31, 07:21 PM
a P.O.I for Ishka!

Business: Amiel's Discount Arms and Armor Emporium
District: Market District
Description: A large store, magicked to move with the frenzied selling market of the district, Amiel's offers one of the largest selections of weapons and armor in Ishka. Though it claims "discount", the prices are much the same as anywhere else. The store is arranged fairly simply, with a general store on the first floor (various goods, from PHB1 materials, to more exotic), Weapons on the second floor, and armors on the third. Amiel's is known to have almost every weapon in stock, and to be able to get any they don't have. Do you want a cold iron, flaming spiked chain? They have 8 different colors. Want a Solar's sword? Come back in three days and it's there. Mountain plate? they have granite, sandstone (for decorative purposes) and solid lava.

And a person for Ishka!
Name: Amiel
Race: Human(ish)
Description: The owner of Amiel's Discount Arms and Armor Emporium, Amiel has been selling goods in Ishka so long, even the Elves wonder how he is still living. Despite his longevity, he seems completely human. He is a tall, broad shouldered man, with military cut hair, though his beard rivals those of dwarves. He leaves it undecorated however, unlike the braids and plaits of dwarven beards. If asked his story, or his last name, Amiel rarely gives the same answer twice. Even his accent changes, sounding at one point like someone fresh from Mithril Heights, then like someone from the poorest section of SoCo. Occasionally, he even sounds foreign.

Silverscale
2010-05-31, 08:22 PM
RE: The new P.O.I.s: I like all of them. If they haven't been added to the Wiki, I think they should be.

Owrtho
2010-05-31, 08:42 PM
Had an idea for a point of interest and thought I'd share it. It could be used for sidequests or an adventure area (an example would be finding someone who went missing in the area). Also, with it is a racial feat for pipe serpents and some other constructs (at DM discretion, should have some hind of steam power).

Name: The Howling Pipes
Location: The steamworks (near The Academy)
Description: At some point in the past, a wizard known for playing pranks decided to do one in the steamworks. Having decided such, he obtained a large quantity of Pandemonic Silver, and worked applied it to the insides of a number of pieces of pipe. He then went to a somewhat isolated spot in the steamworks, and replaced a number of end pieces of pipes that blew out steam with his specially treated pipes. Due to this an area of around half a mile in diameter is filled with pipes that inspire fear in those who listen to their melody. After completing his replacement of the pipes, he added a number of enchantments to prevent the area of losing it's effect (a notable one is that the silver seems to spread through the pipes, infecting any that are replaced within an hour). However, caught up in his work, he miscalculated and became affected by the pipes himself. He was found mad on the outskirts of the area, having run in terror trying to escape for days.

The area has since become noted for criminals resistant to the fear effects occasionally taking up residency, as well as the occasional group of wild pipe serpents that show up in the area. The Howling Pipes is also a popular spot for dares among youths, particularly those who are currently studying at the Academy nearby. Due to this there are occasionally those who get lost.
Special Rules: Due to the Pandemonic Silver in the pipes, upon entering the area and once per minute thereafter, people must make a will save or become shaken (these accumulate if they fail multiple times) until they leave the area (the speed of the steam coming out of the pipes at any given time is 2d20+20. See the chart for Pandemonic Silver (Complete Adventurer) to find the DC for the save based on wind speed). There is also a 1 in 10 chance that a particularly terrifying note will sound. Each time a save is made, roll 1d10, on a 10, increase the DC by 5 and anyone who fails will cower 1d4 rounds in addition to becoming more frightened.

Pandemonic Silver Piping
Your pipes are lined with Pandemonic Silver. Likely made using pipes gathered from the Howling Pipes
Prerequisite: First level (or upgraded), Pipe Serpent (or other steam powered construct).
Benefits: You may as a standard action release a bout of steam from a valve triggering the Pandemonic Silver. This causes it to act as if you had drawn a Pandemonic Silver weapon. The wind speed is 1d20+20. You may increase the wind speed by storing up pressure through using a move action. This increases the wind speed by 10. For every round that you don't do so, the stored pressure decreases by one increment. This may only be used once ever 1d4+1 rounds due to the need to accumulate pressure again.

Might also make notes for the wizard at some point, though if someone else wants to feel free to do so.

Owrtho

Erutaron
2010-06-01, 02:39 AM
I still am awaiting membership to the wiki..

More POI

Business: Pickle and Ponce
District: NoCo
Description: The Pickle and Ponce is an older establishment, extremely popular with Police, Firefighters and Streetbuilders. It's not an exclusive club, but you would be very surprised to see the average warehouse worker in for a drink.

Business: West Bay Eatery
District: Mere
Description: One of the most expensive and exclusive places to go in Ishka, West Bay is popular with wealthy businessmen, as well as government officials

That's all I'll post for now, seeing as they are being used in an active campaign

Silverscale
2010-06-01, 06:41 AM
I still am awaiting membership to the wiki..

More POI

Business: Pickle and Ponce
District: NoCo
Description: The Pickle and Ponce is an older establishment, extremely popular with Police, Firefighters and Streetbuilders. It's not an exclusive club, but you would be very surprised to see the average warehouse worker in for a drink.

Business: West Bay Eatery
District: Mere
Description: One of the most expensive and exclusive places to go in Ishka, West Bay is popular with wealthy businessmen, as well as government officials

That's all I'll post for now, seeing as they are being used in an active campaignPlease put the full descriptions on the Wiki, you don't need to be a member to edit the pages, the only thing you can't do without membership is create new pages, or links between pages

Silverscale
2010-06-01, 10:53 AM
We have three seperate pages for important people, Saints, Other Important People, and Non-Player Characters, not to mention there are some NPC's on other pages.....would it make sense to put everyone onto one organized page, or to leave it as is?

ForzaFiori
2010-06-01, 01:21 PM
I still am awaiting membership to the wiki..

More POI

Business: Pickle and Ponce
District: NoCo
Description: The Pickle and Ponce is an older establishment, extremely popular with Police, Firefighters and Streetbuilders. It's not an exclusive club, but you would be very surprised to see the average warehouse worker in for a drink.

Business: West Bay Eatery
District: Mere
Description: One of the most expensive and exclusive places to go in Ishka, West Bay is popular with wealthy businessmen, as well as government officials

That's all I'll post for now, seeing as they are being used in an active campaign

Come on, you know you wanna put all the rest of those places up there. That way I can figure out which portal to go through. :smalltongue:

Silverscale
2010-06-01, 01:32 PM
Come on, you know you wanna put all the rest of those places up there. That way I can figure out which portal to go through. :smalltongue:

Why not just split the party and go through both portals.....nothing bad ever happens when you split the party up:smallwink:

ForzaFiori
2010-06-01, 02:26 PM
Why not just split the party and go through both portals.....nothing bad ever happens when you split the party up:smallwink:

There's only two of us at the portals to begin with. We've already split up :smalltongue:

BLiZme.2
2010-06-01, 02:35 PM
This is all very confusing to me but if it makes sense to you then roll with it for your campaign.
I do not understand what is confusing. :smallfrown: Pleas be specific. I will attempt to clarify. The first one (upper left) is me clarifying that the small drawings of the color lines are the results of my finding the shortest rout to/from PCS on that secondary line because the farthest points from the main line are not the farthest points from PCS (except on the line 1 aka the white line) if we have the short cuts as described [you find them by counting the number of stops PCS is from that color lines main line connection {remember that number we'll call it t and the station T} then count that many stations from the PCS short cut station(we'll call the station S), then count from those two stations(T and S) toward each other (you count one jump both directions {thus if T+1(one station toward the PCS short cut) and S+1(one station toward the root) are adjacent your total is M+1}you stop when you have counted to adjacent stations or the same station)].Using my fully drawn color line as an example, main line station 5 is 4 jumps from PCS thus stations N (and F) (on that line)are as far from PCS as station 5A, then that means stations R and O (and B and E) are all 5 jumps from PCS, and in turn stations Q and P (and C and D) are 6 jumps from PCS. If you were to continue you would be in a station that is closer to PCS by another path, thus they are the farthest stations from PCS (as station 6 is equidistant from PCS (by Going Counter Spin Wise) as station 5, station 6's Q,P,C,D are all at the same distance as tier 5's). I assume that it is an obvious extension of this explanation that no tire two station could be farther from PCS than these as at least one direction is nearer and there are no obstructions.
(just to note the farthest point from PCS and the main line are not the same thing. The farthest point from the main line on every line are stations O,N,E and F as both the normal main line stop and short cut drop you of at the main line directly but only the short cut will drop you off at PCS directly [on the white line they are the same location] and both of those are on the main line{this dose not adversely affect worst case pathing})
I forgot to mention the hash marks on the drawn out color line signify the farthest points from PCH on that line border the hatch marks, just like the dots on the line (or node tier 3&4) mean the adjacent stations (or the dotted station) are farthest from the next tier up.

I assume the notes stop 18 on the tertiary and stop J on the secondary are clear and the last was me explaining my notes and why those 2 nodes were drawn strangely . With out a more specific question I cant clear that up any better.

Basically this is just me pointing out emergent phenomena of the network so everyone knows (also I felt it necessary to clarify my time table form earlier vis-à-vis the max time to/ from PCS [the diagram I posted is a cleaner version of the one I used to figure the table out])


So basically "Astral Diamond" is a catch all term for high-denomination coinage?
No it is not. What I am trying to get at is that not every astral diamond (gem) is of equal value so the mint (they make coins banks make paper) appraise each gem they put in a coin, then round the value up to the Next denomination then they set the diamond in a hole in an adimantium coin (you could look through the gem as it sits in the coin) that has its official value (the rounded up amount) marked on it and that specific gem’s id so you can't switch out a lower value ad(gem) for a high value one as the appraisal describes the gem in detail and is a mater of public record (think of it as a counter to high stakes coin shaving).But we can just gloss over this and say all ad are worth the same(I’d rater do this than have multi gem studded coins) I just wanted to cover this detail.

RE: The new P.O.I.s: I agree with silverscale they should go on the wiki they are very cool.

I to am still awaiting membership in the wiki.
I’m not sure what to do about the people I will read how it’s up now and think about it.

edits in italic, sorry bout the wall o text (i had a lot to say and some of it was very detailed).

Owrtho
2010-06-01, 02:41 PM
We have three seperate pages for important people, Saints, Other Important People, and Non-Player Characters, not to mention there are some NPC's on other pages.....would it make sense to put everyone onto one organized page, or to leave it as is?

Saints should keep their own page. I could actually see it being worthwhile to make separate pages for the more important saints.
The Other Important People and NPCs could go either way. As it is, Important people tends to be people who are of note in Ishka (as in people an average citizen has a fair chance of having heard of or been taught about). NPCs are people who might be notable to the players and GM, but aren't actually well known in the setting (such as characters from graveyard shift, who while likely would be of interest to players who have read it, aren't hugely well known). It would also be worth noting that the Important people tend to have some kind of historical significance to Ishka, or some notable power in contemporary Ishka, while someone who is just a well known shop owner would be an NPC.

That said, the distinction between NPCs and Important People can be rather vague at times. As such it could go either way.

An alternative idea would be to make one into just people from the stories of Ishka, and have them there and able to be linked to from their stories, while the other would be for anyone else of note.

Also, it might be worthwhile to decide on the Domains of all of the saints and put those on the wiki. That way it would be easy for a player to find for their character if they need it.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-06-01, 04:18 PM
I do not understand what is confusing. :smallfrown: Pleas be specific. I will attempt to clarify. Your notation combined with WALL OF TEXT makes for brain hurting. The salient point is that the Stations can be a confusing place to get around which is why I suggested the individual line maps posted above each door. Also I think when I get around to editing the Wiki page on Stations, things will make a whole lot more sense....I hope



No it is not. What I am trying to get at is that not every astral diamond (gem) is of equal value ........We're saying the same thing, no need to clarify this.

Silverscale
2010-06-01, 10:38 PM
Saints should keep their own page. I could actually see it being worthwhile to make separate pages for the more important saints...............I think we should go with a page for the Saints and a separate page for other NPC's


Also, it might be worthwhile to decide on the Domains of all of the saints and put those on the wiki. That way it would be easy for a player to find for their character if they need it.

OwrthoIf you look at the Saint's Page it already has Domains listed for them.....Patron Saint of Blah, Yadda, Etc.

Owrtho
2010-06-01, 10:59 PM
I'm still of the mind some things should get their own pages (such as more fleshed out districts, more fleshed out saints, etc.). Also, while the saints do have the patron saint of..., not all of them are their actual domains, and some list a few domains along with other things (such as patron saint of bards and truth to oneself).

Owrtho

BLiZme.2
2010-06-02, 01:48 AM
This is my take on the domains of the saints domains in ?Domainname? are ones I am not certain about if a domain has a not in (this is a note) next to it that is my reasoning or assessment if the domain. notes including the word Heretical mean that if we allow heretical priests that domain would only be practiced by heretical priests of a given saint (I believe we have established that a cleric of a saint dose not have to have an alignment matching there patron just like in Eberon {and we use the same justifying mechanism namely it is your faith that runs the spell not some deific grant}).
struck through are definitely not on the list

Saint Kenrik
AKA Kenrik the Protector AKA Kenrik the Boneguard
Patron saint of Death, Law, and Nobility
Domains: ?Death (heretical)?, ?Earth?, Good, ?Healing?, Law, Protection, Strength, ?War?.
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Charm?, ?Cold (litches are undead with chill touch)?, ?Community?, Courage, Deathbound, ?Liberation?, Nobility, ?Retribution?, ?Undeath (maybe heretical)?

Saint Bretre
Patron Saint of Community, Good, and Knowledge
Domains: Good, ?Healing (his greatest act was one of spiritual healing)?, Knowledge, Magic, ?Protection?,
Spell Compendium domains: Balance, ?Charm?, Community ?Domination (heretical)?, Rune, ?Spell?,

Saint Baltin
Patron Saint of Strength, Glory, War, and Nobility
Domains: ?Destruction?, ?Law?, Strength, War,
Spell Compendium: domains: Competition, Courage, Glory, ?Inquisition?, Nobility, Pride, Purification, Retribution, Wrath

Saint Merkiel
Patron Saint of Community, Good, Healing, and Protection
Domains: Good, Healing, ?Luck (his appearance was very lucky)?, Protection,
Spell Compendium: domains: Community, ?Family?, Renewal,

Saint Cassandra, the Brass Saint
Patron Saint of Artifice, and Knowledge
Domains: ?Earth?, Fire, Water, Knowledge, ?Law?, ?Magic?
Spell Compendium: domains: Craft, Creation, ?Fate?, ?Force?, Gnome, Metal, ?Pride?, ?Renewal(she brought back the genius of the first builder this is a stretch)?, ?rune?, ?Spell?, Time (I propose she invented pocket watches),

Saint Olliden
Patron Saint of love, bards, and truth to one's self.
Domains: Good, Knowledge, ?Luck?, ?Protection?, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: Charm, ?Dream?, ?Fate?, Lust,

Saint Minerva
Patron Saint of determination, physical ability, and quick thinking.
Domains: ?Destruction?, ?Knowledge?, ?Law?, ?Luck?, Protection, ?Strength?, ?Travel?, ?Trickery?, War.
Spell Compendium domains: ?Celerity?, ?Community?, Competition, Purification, Retribution

First Builder
Patron saint of Workers, Structures, and Architects.
Domains: Earth, ?Fire?, ?Water(he laid river work this is more likely than fire)?, Knowledge, ?Law?, ?Magic?,
Spell Compendium Domains: ?Community?, Craft, Creation, ?Dwarf, Elf,[hypothetically Human {Human is not in SC}] {he has several race domains based on the fervent belief by various groups as to his race you can have only one on your personal list}?, ?Fate?, ?Force?, Metal, Planning, Rune, ?Spell?.

Fleet-Footed Jack
Unofficial patron saint of athletes, anarchists, and thieves.
Domains: ?Chaos?, ?Good (he protects the poor ect)?, Luck, ?Protection(he protects the poor ect)?, Travel, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: Celerity, ?Charm(rogue’s laughing charm)?, ?Competition?, ?Courage?, ?Pride?.

Hulutch
Deviant Saint of Chaos, Destruction, Evil, and Madness
Domains: Chaos, ?Death?, Evil, ?Knowledge(forbidden)?, ?Luck (not all luck is good)?, ?Magic?, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: Cavern, ?Charm (how did he become a saint…)?,? Creation?, Darkness, Domination, Dream, Envy, ?Gluttony?, ?Greed?, ?Hatred?, ?Hunger?, ?Illusion?, Madness, ?Mentalism?, ?Mind?, Planning, Pride, ?Slime?, ?Sloth?, ?Spell?, Suffering, Summoner.

The Twin Dragon Saints
Patron Saint of Knowledge, Nobility, Fire, and Dragons.
Domains: Fire, Luck, Magic, ?Protection?, ?Strength?, ?Trickery?, ?War?,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance (together they are balanced)?, ?Cavern?, ?Charm?, ?Community?, Competition, Dragon, ?Envy?, ?Gluttony?, ?Greed?, Nobility, ?Pride?, Scalykind, ?Spell?, ?Time?, Trade, Wealth,

The Stone Raven
The patron of impartial justice, laws, observers, and law-keepers.
Domains: Earth, Law, ?Magic?, ?Protection?,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Community?, ?Darkness(they use it enough)?, ?Domination(heretical)?, Fate, ?Force (the parable)?, Inquisition, ?Oracle?, Purification, Retribution, ?Tyranny (heretical)?

The Millennium Tree
AKA The Spirit of the Tree
Patron Saint of Animal, Air, Earth, liberation, Plant, Water, and Weather
Domains: Air, Animal, Earth, ?Good?, ?Knowledge?, Sun, Plant, ?Protection?, ?Water?,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, Cavern, Community, ?Moon?, ?Pestilence (heretical it is part of nature)?, Renewal, ?Spider?, ?Storm?, Windstorm.

Myndil the Shadow
Unofficial Patron Saint of Assassins and Murderers
Domains: ?Destruction?, ?Evil?, ?Travel?, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Celerity?, Darkness, ?Dream?, ?Hatred (assassins are hate magnets)?,

Tren 4508
Unofficial, but not deviant, Patron Saint of Constructs
Domains: ?Earth?, ?Fire (all of the steam constructs)?, Death (he is a necromancer), ?Magic?, ?Knowledge?, ?Law?, ?Protection?.
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Craft?, ?Creation?, ?Envy?, ?Liberation?, ?Planning?, ?Rune?, ?Spell?, ?Undeath?.

TheLonelyScribe
2010-06-02, 02:09 AM
Jus sayin': not war for Kenrik. He lived in war, yes, he died in war, yes, but he died trying to stop a war, so I don't think it's really appropriate for him to have the war domain.

BLiZme.2
2010-06-02, 02:19 AM
hence the ?? I was not to keen on it ether (in for completeness) consider it scrubbed

BLiZme.2
2010-06-02, 02:22 AM
what is the canion with i cant find it? found it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120354&page=20) 5 miles. im also using the 20 mile extra spill on ether side on the page after that.
also we recintly adid one or 2 districts what were they?The Narrows, Deepmire, Adventure Co. did i miss any not on the wiki districts page?

BLiZme.2
2010-06-02, 04:48 AM
Your notation combined with WALL OF TEXT makes for brain hurting. The salient point is that the Stations can be a confusing place to get around which is why I suggested the individual line maps posted above each door. Also I think when I get around to editing the Wiki page on Stations, things will make a whole lot more sense....I hope


We're saying the same thing, no need to clarify this.

I agree stations are confusing and map of the line you are on would be very help full I still like my arrow idea but they can be combined and would help each other. I would think the map you describe would not be best placed on the carriage but near buy or posted above the counter on the info kiosks

As to the ad I was more disagreeing with ForzaFiori (about having many gems and being made of platinum not adamant) sorry about that I was tired and pressed for time.


(also I have gotten the outline of the canyon and city done for my city map {pictures of this stage soon} {the lake still dose not look right and I have some things I want to discus later about the harbor {basically is it open or sheltered if sheltered I picture a tight C shape with the river in the middle of the curve and a ?berm?[right word] out beyond the opening you sail between the berm and the city to get to the harbor though I am sure there are docks out there in fact that island district in the harbor (not sunset the other one) could serve as the brake water for the inner harbor and the outer docks could still be exposed})

Sketch of C harbor with island




An ! Means a cluster of docks
~ is water
everything else is coast or land as appropriate


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~_____________~~~~~~~~
~~~~~!!| island district.|!~~~~~~~~
~~~~~!!|………….…....….|!~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~|____________|~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!~~~~
-------------~~~~~~----------------
……..……../!~~~~~~~~!\
…...……../!~~~~~~~~~.!\
…...……..\!~~~~~~~~~.!/
………….....\!!!!~~~~~!!!!/
……………........\!!!!!!!!!/…?port station?

Erutaron
2010-06-02, 06:02 AM
So, after viciously cutting a swath through Silverscales Ishka compendium he sent using liberal amounts of "delete key", I've uncovered a few unresolved discussions and fun topics:

Namely the following (How about we go through in order, and maybe even one at a time.

Districts:
Dwarven District: no ideas from me on this one
Two additional Sub-districts of Ether:
Canal District: Maybe a venice like area with gondolas and houses built with doors a foot above the water


POI:

Fresh water Resevoir
Unfinished Streetbuilder Projects
Larksbur is a nieghborhood in the Commons
'The Quick Bend' (2nd level down).
'Wombletown Grave' (16th level down)


Also a few other things are some organizations. I've been thinking maybe we should have a few more big companies, rather than more government run establishments. Maybe a private investigative firm that is a rival to MI, and a few more businesses like FCC.

Also some discussion about Surface dwellers would be nice, maybe a few POI for up top.

TheLonelyScribe
2010-06-02, 07:48 AM
Canal District: Maybe a venice like area with gondolas and houses built with doors a foot above the water.

Sounds like Mere to me. No need for anything else there, Mere fits the flavour well enough.

BRC
2010-06-02, 09:48 AM
Business, Darhum and Coop
Darhum and Coop is a law firm based out of Mithril Heights. They are primarily defense lawyers, and are known as being some of the most effective, and expensive, lawyers in the city. They are famous for defending high-level Alliance members against MI's accusations.
The Falcons are frequently called in to handle drunken MI's standing outside the Darhum and Coop offices shouting obscenities.

ForzaFiori
2010-06-02, 10:22 AM
As to the ad I was more disagreeing with ForzaFiori (about having many gems and being made of platinum not adamant) sorry about that I was tired and pressed for time.


Eh, I was close enough. We simply used different methods to change the cost. Big whoop.

Silverscale
2010-06-02, 10:42 AM
Wow so much to respond to where to start.....

The Harbor: According to my revised description of Sphen on the Wiki, the Harbor is made up of 2 penisulas that come off the main land forming a sort of C shape and then there are a series of Islands, one big one in particular that is home to a lot of exotic flora and fauna (ALA The Galapagose) these islands are linked to the penisulas and by extention the main land by a series of food bridges. The widest gap between islands is used as the main entrance to the harbor and is flanked by a pair of massive light houses to mark the safe passage.

Canal District: As I understand it would be between The Lake District and Galdren along a series of canals that eventually become irrigation for Galdren. Where as Mere is the bottom most layer over the lake, the canals would be a single layer stretching along toward Galdren. Since it's certainly not the only for of irrigation for Galdren it need not be overly large, perhaps half a dozen decent size waterways, say .1-.25 miles wide but with a uniform man-made depth of 15ft.

Other P.O.I., Businesses, Etc: The more the merrier. You write it up and if people seem to like it, I'll post it to the Wiki

the doomed one
2010-06-02, 05:14 PM
This is my take on the domains of the saints domains in ?Domainname? are ones I am not certain about if a domain has a not in (this is a note) next to it that is my reasoning or assessment if the domain. notes including the word Heretical mean that if we allow heretical priests that domain would only be practiced by heretical priests of a given saint (I believe we have established that a cleric of a saint dose not have to have an alignment matching there patron just like in Eberon {and we use the same justifying mechanism namely it is your faith that runs the spell not some deific grant}).
struck through are definitely not on the list

Saint Kenrik
AKA Kenrik the Protector AKA Kenrik the Boneguard
Patron saint of Death, Law, and Nobility
Domains: ?Death (heretical)?, ?Earth?, Good, ?Healing?, Law, Protection, Strength, ?War?.
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Charm?, ?Cold (litches are undead with chill touch)?, ?Community?, Courage, Deathbound, ?Liberation?, Nobility, ?Retribution?, ?Undeath (maybe heretical)?

Saint Bretre
Patron Saint of Community, Good, and Knowledge
Domains: Good, ?Healing (his greatest act was one of spiritual healing)?, Knowledge, Magic, ?Protection?,
Spell Compendium domains: Balance, ?Charm?, Community ?Domination (heretical)?, Rune, ?Spell?,

Saint Baltin
Patron Saint of Strength, Glory, War, and Nobility
Domains: ?Destruction?, ?Law?, Strength, War,
Spell Compendium: domains: Competition, Courage, Glory, ?Inquisition?, Nobility, Pride, Purification, Retribution, Wrath

Saint Merkiel
Patron Saint of Community, Good, Healing, and Protection
Domains: Good, Healing, ?Luck (his appearance was very lucky)?, Protection,
Spell Compendium: domains: Community, ?Family?, Renewal,

Saint Cassandra, the Brass Saint
Patron Saint of Artifice, and Knowledge
Domains: ?Earth?, Fire, Water, Knowledge, ?Law?, ?Magic?
Spell Compendium: domains: Craft, Creation, ?Fate?, ?Force?, Gnome, Metal, ?Pride?, ?Renewal(she brought back the genius of the first builder this is a stretch)?, ?rune?, ?Spell?, Time (I propose she invented pocket watches),

Saint Olliden
Patron Saint of love, bards, and truth to one's self.
Domains: Good, Knowledge, ?Luck?, ?Protection?, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: Charm, ?Dream?, ?Fate?, Lust,

Saint Minerva
Patron Saint of determination, physical ability, and quick thinking.
Domains: ?Destruction?, ?Knowledge?, ?Law?, ?Luck?, Protection, ?Strength?, ?Travel?, ?Trickery?, War.
Spell Compendium domains: ?Celerity?, ?Community?, Competition, Purification, Retribution

First Builder
Patron saint of Workers, Structures, and Architects.
Domains: Earth, ?Fire?, ?Water(he laid river work this is more likely than fire)?, Knowledge, ?Law?, ?Magic?,
Spell Compendium Domains: ?Community?, Craft, Creation, ?Dwarf, Elf,[hypothetically Human {Human is not in SC}] {he has several race domains based on the fervent belief by various groups as to his race you can have only one on your personal list}?, ?Fate?, ?Force?, Metal, Planning, Rune, ?Spell?.

Fleet-Footed Jack
Unofficial patron saint of athletes, anarchists, and thieves.
Domains: ?Chaos?, ?Good (he protects the poor ect)?, Luck, ?Protection(he protects the poor ect)?, Travel, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: Celerity, ?Charm(rogue’s laughing charm)?, ?Competition?, ?Courage?, ?Pride?.

Hulutch
Deviant Saint of Chaos, Destruction, Evil, and Madness
Domains: Chaos, ?Death?, Evil, ?Knowledge(forbidden)?, ?Luck (not all luck is good)?, ?Magic?, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: Cavern, ?Charm (how did he become a saint…)?,? Creation?, Darkness, Domination, Dream, Envy, ?Gluttony?, ?Greed?, ?Hatred?, ?Hunger?, ?Illusion?, Madness, ?Mentalism?, ?Mind?, Planning, Pride, ?Slime?, ?Sloth?, ?Spell?, Suffering, Summoner.

The Twin Dragon Saints
Patron Saint of Knowledge, Nobility, Fire, and Dragons.
Domains: Fire, Luck, Magic, ?Protection?, ?Strength?, ?Trickery?, ?War?,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance (together they are balanced)?, ?Cavern?, ?Charm?, ?Community?, Competition, Dragon, ?Envy?, ?Gluttony?, ?Greed?, Nobility, ?Pride?, Scalykind, ?Spell?, ?Time?, Trade, Wealth,

The Stone Raven
The patron of impartial justice, laws, observers, and law-keepers.
Domains: Earth, Law, ?Magic?, ?Protection?,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Community?, ?Darkness(they use it enough)?, ?Domination(heretical)?, Fate, ?Force (the parable)?, Inquisition, ?Oracle?, Purification, Retribution, ?Tyranny (heretical)?

The Millennium Tree
AKA The Spirit of the Tree
Patron Saint of Animal, Air, Earth, liberation, Plant, Water, and Weather
Domains: Air, Animal, Earth, ?Good?, ?Knowledge?, Sun, Plant, ?Protection?, ?Water?,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, Cavern, Community, ?Moon?, ?Pestilence (heretical it is part of nature)?, Renewal, ?Spider?, ?Storm?, Windstorm.

Myndil the Shadow
Unofficial Patron Saint of Assassins and Murderers
Domains: ?Destruction?, ?Evil?, ?Travel?, Trickery,
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Celerity?, Darkness, ?Dream?, ?Hatred (assassins are hate magnets)?,

Tren 4508
Unofficial, but not deviant, Patron Saint of Constructs
Domains: ?Earth?, ?Fire (all of the steam constructs)?, Death (he is a necromancer), ?Magic?, ?Knowledge?, ?Law?, ?Protection?.
Spell Compendium domains: ?Balance?, ?Craft?, ?Creation?, ?Envy?, ?Liberation?, ?Planning?, ?Rune?, ?Spell?, ?Undeath?.


I already did this back on page twelve, though, there may be more saints since then, and I only stated out pathfinder domains, but I hope it helps.


I have also given some thought on domains for the saints.

(keep in mind i am working from a pathfinder standpoint and the domains can be found here (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/cleric.html#cleric))


Baltin
Strength, Glory, War, Nobility

Bretre
Community, Good, Knowledge

Cassandra
Artifice, Knowledge

First Builder
Artifice, Knowledge

Fleet-Footed Jack
Chaos, Luck, Travel, Trickery

Hulutch
Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Madness

Kenric
Death, Law, Nobility

Merkel
Community, Good, Healing, Protection

Millennium Tree
Animal, Air, Earth, liberation, Plant, Water, Weather

Minirva
Knowledge, Strength, Protection, Luck

Olliden
Charm, Magic, Luck

Stone Raven
Knowledge, Law, Magic, Protection

Twin Dragons
Knowledge, Nobility, Fire



Also i shall take that advice into consideration.

Edit: wording and spelling
Edit2: Added Knowledge and Magic to Stone Raven.
Edit3: Bolded names, alphabetized.

Silverscale
2010-06-03, 11:16 AM
District: The Canal District
Other names: The Canals, Lovers Paradise
Government Type: ??????
Police Force: ??????
Description: Stretching from the lake toward Galdren are 5 massive canals each half a mile wide and 20 feet deep. Oringinally dug by the Streetbuilders to help Irrigate the massive farms of Galdren, The Canals have become lined with houses and high-end shops looking to get a piece of the prime relastate. To connect the houses together across the canals, hundreds of bridges have been built forming a lattice of footpaths all around. There is enough space under the bridges for barges and other, smaller water craft to get through. A regular site on the waters of The Canal District, especially at night, are the Gandolas that ferry people for a fee and are often rented by lovers looking for an evening on the open waterways.

BLiZme.2
2010-06-03, 12:04 PM
@ Erutaron
Dwarven District: isn’t this the narrows?
Two additional Sub-districts of Ether: what (can I get a link or a summery pleas)?
Canal District: cool I like it in Galidrin like Silverscale says

POIs no idea what to do for now maybe when I’ve had a nap
A PI firm would be good we would want at least two (detailed) one very mercenary like and no to terribly moral like the old Pinkertons and one dashing hard boiled sleuth like Sam Spade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maltese_Falcon_(1941_film))

@BRC that is amazing amounts of awesome in so little space you are incredible

@ ForzaFiori your right it isn’t a big deal I just really dislike your version and I don’t know why (gem studded coins seams foolish the as I imagine mine there is a thin web of adimantium holding the gem in not just some little pegs of platinum) it just seams wrong also iv been exhausted the last three times I’ve posted it must be showing sorry to snip

@Silverscale Thanks for the reminder about Sphen I thought we had come to something like that (now I remember the discussion at least more clearly) you cleared some stuff up thanks.
I do not remember the canals but I like how you describe them here

@ the doomed one yah I now you did do that earlier but there are two key problems
1. pathfinder ~= 3.5 not pathfinder = 3.5
2 I think you are missing some saints. I will compare our lists later and bold any matches and italicize approximations. Any idea on removals or more additions to the 3.5 version would be cool.

@ anyone and everyone(this would be a good account name :smallwink:)
dose anyone have any advice (or references) on how to draw a lake I cant seem to make one that look natural for the map (yes i know development but I think much of the lake edge remains in a relatively native shape) [if all else fails I’ll stair at satellite views of the great lakes till something hits me maybe Ontario seams promising IIRC the shape right].

Silverscale
2010-06-03, 02:21 PM
@Silverscale Thanks for the reminder about Sphen I thought we had come to something like that (now I remember the discussion at least more clearly) you cleared some stuff up thanks.
I do not remember the canals but I like how you describe them here
Thanks although they are not in Galdren so much as they are between Galdren and the lake. Yes the irrigation they provide stretches into Galdren but all the houses and such that make up The Canal District are not part of Galdren



@ anyone and everyone(this would be a good account name :smallwink:)
dose anyone have any advice (or references) on how to draw a lake I cant seem to make one that look natural for the map (yes i know development but I think much of the lake edge remains in a relatively native shape) [if all else fails I’ll stair at satellite views of the great lakes till something hits me maybe Ontario seams promising IIRC the shape right].
Actually now that I look at them on Google Images, I rather like the shape of Lake Huron for some reason, with two of the canals coming off the southern edge of the section in the upper right and the other three coming off the east side of the main portion of the lake. And the river therefore would be coming off the southern tip of the lake much like the connection to Lake Erie.

Owrtho
2010-06-03, 08:22 PM
Well, had an idea for a point of interest near the top.

Name: The Skylight Café
Location: boarder of Art Community and Commons, top 6 layers
Details: A wealthy merchant (needs race) in Ishka (needs name), decided to settle down and open a high class restaurant. Having always loved looking at the sky, and having the financial backing needed, to fund his idea, the merchant began work on the Skylight Café. Extending through 6 layers of Ishka, the name is considered by some to be somewhat erroneous, as only the top three floors are actually a café, while the remaining 8 are a high class restaurant. The top floor consists of an open feeling space covered by a large dome of magically re-enforce glass. Each floor is then further enchanted to make itself and all upon it look invisible to those on a lower floor, a clear view of the sky, and letting light pass all the way down. The Skylight Café is lavishly decorated, and often displays works of art from the most popular of Artists in Ishka.
Due to the costs and popularity of eating there, most who eat there are wealthy or noble. Artists frequently compete to get their work placed within, hoping for the business it brings (so much so some wonder if it is not the art being there that makes it popular rather than the art being there because it's popular). Many hoping to impress their status or wealth will bring people to the Skylight Café for discussing business. It is also expect that one attend in finery.

Owrtho

BLiZme.2
2010-06-04, 03:43 AM
Huron is probably the best template the river would flow at an angle starting where St Ignace is and at about the angle to the cost of Lake Michigan. I think it might be best to close the connections of the islands on the north side and just ignore Georgian Bay as well as the North Channel and the area around Sault saint Marie.
I should probably reflect it to for good measure it would make it fit my existing art better two.

Owrtho
2010-06-04, 04:13 AM
Thought I'd mention it as I saw it causing some trouble, but seems you can't have 's or .s in the anchors for when you want to make text link to one, else it doesn't become a link.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-06-04, 02:15 PM
Point of Interest: Falls View Cafe
Location: The Commons near the were the river plunges into the canyon.
Description: The Falls View Cafe is built near the falls as it plunges past the first 8 layers. Inside the tables are arranged to take advantage of the view out the large windows. Ouside there are decks for patrons to experience the falls as they rush past.

Silverscale
2010-06-05, 07:20 PM
Point of Interest: Bazare of the Bizarre
Location: The Mages District
Description: Given the connections Ishka has to the Multiverse, particularly in the Mages District, it is possible to find any item your heart desires and The Bazare of the Bizarre specializes in the strangest of them all. Where Amiel's has or can get any weapon or armor you can think of, the practitioners of the Bazare either have any magic item you're looking for or know where to get it.....for a price. Though all under one roof, it is actually a collection of smaller shops that each have their individual specializations.

Silverscale
2010-06-07, 04:35 PM
Point of Interest: Chubb's Grubb Shack
Location: The Commons near one of The Steamworks
Description: Though definitely not the best food in Ishka, the thing that attracts the customers is the price. Many patrons wonder if the cheap prices are because the food is gotten "Off the back of the truck". Others think Chubb must have some secret stash of game somewhere. The reality is sort of a combination of these two assumptions. Chubb has a portal to a distant world hidden away in the back of his premises. He's made deals with local poachers and rustlers to keep the meat coming in for less than it would cost to bring it through the regular channels of either CnI or The Market District.

Owrtho
2010-06-08, 05:45 PM
Idea for an organization.

Name: The Guide Guild
Location: Has a branch in most districts
Description: The guide guild started as a part of the Cartographers Collective with the purpose of providing extra money for it. However, it soon took on a life of it's own, particularly after certain unnamed investors took an interest in it. It now still works closely with the Cartographers Collective, making use of their maps, but has become its own entity. It advertises that it "We'll guide you anywhere in the city", and will do so for a price. They even will guarantee that you make it there alive if you pay enough.
While no solid proof exists, some theorize that the guide guild has connections with the Alliance. This is in fact true, though no members will ever admit it, and many are unaware. The Alliance provides funding and leaves the guild alone, and in exchange the guild provides the Alliance with information regarding who is trying to go where. In some cases they will even have members in the know guide people the Alliance wants taken care of to their death, or a location of the Alliance's choosing. Such things are however written off as the person failing to follow properly and getting lost (not too strange as they usually take paths akin to those used by the Cartographers Collective unless paid extra not to).
Despite their involvement with the Alliance and the rumours floating around, few actually believe them to be true. Weather this is because they do such a good job hiding it or because people don't want to lose such a convenient group for when they're in unfamiliar parts of the city is uncertain. All branches of the Guide Guild are also noted for being enchanted so that anyone focusing on them within a few mile radius can tell its location relative to themselves.

Owrtho

BLiZme.2
2010-06-09, 03:36 AM
@ Owrtho "though no members will never" I think you mean ever.
This seems really cool just one thing I’m not sure about the homing beckon effect seems to be the kind o thing the screen would kill (dose everyone like the name the screen for the divination block on the city it seems like the kind of slang that would come up an alternate could be the haze or the mist).

@ Silverscale The Bazare of the Bizarre right up has a couple of flaws in style but seems ok mostly the all under one roof bit i pictured the Bazare as a sprawling multistreet affair with shops stalls and spread carpets all along it for at least a cubic block (not a square block as Ishka is 3D I figure a cubic block is a real life city block but 3 layers tall), not some pan dimensional shopping mall all in one clean building with all the shops paying rent. Also I think we should mention there is a massive gate connecting the Bazare to the heart of the market district I would imagine Amiel's is in sight of the gate
the other two POIs are assume though

I am having difficulty getting my pictures off the camera they are on it safe and sound I just cant find my connecter cable :smallfurious: sorry everyone. My grandparents just visited from 3 states over so no written progress (on the map) sense last up date but ideas have been fruitfully simmering (maybe some time this week I’ll have the lake and sepon outlined right then the hard part starts).

Silverscale
2010-06-09, 08:22 AM
@BLiZme.2: How about with the following changes in blue


Point of Interest: Bazare of the Bizarre
Location: The Mages District
Description: Given the connections Ishka has to the Multiverse, particularly in the Mages District, it is possible to find any item your heart desires and The Bazare of the Bizarre specializes in the strangest of them all. Where Amiel's has or can get any weapon or armor you can think of, the practitioners of the Bazare either have any magic item you're looking for or know where to get it.....for a price. Though all under one massive roof, it is actually a collection of smaller shops that each have their individual specializations. The Bazare is so massive it covers a area half a mile by half a mile on a side and extending through 4 layers. In the center of the Bazare, guarded by Gatekeepers, is a gate to the Astral plane as well as a gate linking it directly to The Market District.

BLiZme.2
2010-06-09, 11:46 PM
@ Silverscale the bit i do not like is the one roof bit it might be technically true in that the layers above form one solid roof but the turn of phrase dose not seem appropriate for this instance as it implies they all have a formal connection beyond there city and district (under one roof implies conglomerate ownership of the stores or at least the location (and that Is the only non trivial meaning in Ishka))(imagine if there were a dome over the city of Constantinople in the forth century the city bizarre would literally but not figuratively be under one roof) I appreciate your play to size description (to solve my complaint) but feel it is clumsy and dose not adores my concerns at all and could stand to be cut(it seams a little to specific {ha ha me complain about specific:smalltongue:}), the bit about the gates is well done though.

ForzaFiori
2010-06-10, 04:24 AM
@ Silverscale the bit i do not like is the one roof bit it might be technically true in that the layers above form one solid roof but the turn of phrase dose not seem appropriate for this instance as it implies they all have a formal connection beyond there city and district (under one roof implies conglomerate ownership of the stores or at least the location (and that Is the only non trivial meaning in Ishka))(imagine if there were a dome over the city of Constantinople in the forth century the city bizarre would literally but not figuratively be under one roof) I appreciate your play to size description (to solve my complaint) but feel it is clumsy and dose not adores my concerns at all and could stand to be cut(it seams a little to specific {ha ha me complain about specific:smalltongue:}), the bit about the gates is well done though.

In a way though, they would be "under one roof" in the metaphorical sense. They are all cooperating in order to form the Bizarre Bazaar. There must be some sort of agreement made, in order to prevent hassles and stuff between shops. Just like how the various stores in a mall have to sign agreements, you probably need one for the Bazaar. Also, adding "massive" to the post lets the reader know that the description is talking about a literal roof rather than a metaphorical one, and is meant to show that the bazaar is in doors, in one large building.

Silverscale
2010-06-10, 07:13 AM
I'm gonna have to agree with ForzaFiori on this. The Bazaar is like a modern day mall, each shop is independently owned but they all pay a small fee to operate in the same mega shopping center. There's probably even a small security force that reports to who ever it is that owns the whole Bazaar. In fact I'm working on a Taskforged Mercenary group (won't be able to do anything with it till next week since I'm going to my mother's house for a few days) when I have it done they can be the group that's been hired to provide security for the Bazaar. As to if it's indoors or not, pretty much anything that doesn't extend to the top layer is "Indoors". That being said, with a little magic anything can be made to look like it's outdoors (For example the ceiling of The Great Hall at Hogwarts is enchanted to show the sky outside) so if you want to have a few enchantments in place to make the Bazaar seem like it's outdoors that's fine with me.

Silverscale
2010-06-11, 09:40 PM
One thought that has recently occurred to me is that given the way Ishka is layed out in layers, and the sheer size of the city, most buildings are huge at least by modern earth standards. Even a single layer establishment is still 3-stories tall and probably has at least a 100ft square footprint. And those are probably some of the smallest buildings........Food for thought.

Terror_Incognito
2010-06-11, 10:35 PM
Something for the Wizards.

Point Of Interest: The Secure Labs (Needs a better name)
Location: Mage's District
Description:
With space at such a premium; and with so many wizards, sorcerers, alchemists and arcane dabblers there is always going to be a problem with magical experiments going wrong. With this in mind the University constructed the first Secure Lab. Each Lab is constructed in it own pocket dimension. The security for each lab is different depending on what is being studied.

Several notable Labs are:
Department Arcanometerology - Tasked with monitoring Ishka's background magical energy. Probes extend out into the city through hundreds of small portals. Minimal security.

The Far Lab - Built to study the Far Plane, this Lab has the highest security of all the Labs. Access is granted through a single heavily guarded portal which leads into the first of ten, sealed quarantine pocket dimensions. At the end is a small research outpost.

Silverscale
2010-06-12, 01:52 PM
Something for the Wizards.

Point Of Interest: The Secure Labs (Needs a better name)
Location: Mage's District
Description:
With space at such a premium; and with so many wizards, sorcerers, alchemists and arcane dabblers there is always going to be a problem with magical experiments going wrong. With this in mind the University constructed the first Secure Lab. Each Lab is constructed in it own pocket dimension. The security for each lab is different depending on what is being studied.

Several notable Labs are:
Department Arcanometerology - Tasked with monitoring Ishka's background magical energy. Probes extend out into the city through hundreds of small portals. Minimal security.

The Far Lab - Built to study the Far Plane, this Lab has the highest security of all the Labs. Access is granted through a single heavily guarded portal which leads into the first of ten, sealed quarantine pocket dimensions. At the end is a small research outpost.
Would the entrances to all these various labs be housed in one giant complex with the lower security on the first floor and each additional floor being home to higher and higher security labs? That would make sense to me.

Silverscale
2010-06-14, 09:27 PM
Actually another question I have with the labs....as you describe them these seem more academic then personal research so would these be at the University instead of the Mages district?

BLiZme.2
2010-06-15, 12:11 AM
They could be various locations and it could be against the law to do some kinds of magical experiment in the city proper?

BLiZme.2
2010-06-15, 10:45 PM
Here is the first stage of the city map the lake and harbor are just place holders but I am happy with the layout of the city and the canyon going up river here are the sections 1&2 (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=D11.jpg), 2&3 (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=D12.jpg), 3&4 (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=D13.jpg),4&5 (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=D14.jpg), 5&6 (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=D16.jpg).
Also i have some more holistic views like (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=AngleFront.jpg) these (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=LongViewBack.jpg) three (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=LongViewBack2.jpg) as well as one looking up river (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=AngleFront.jpg) and one down river (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/BLiZme2/Ishka/MyMap/?action=view&current=AngleBack.jpg). (If you play with the brightness on the last two you can make the far end clear but all I have is MS Office Picture manager and MS paint to do graphical editing so I can’t make the far ends clear without washing out the near end. {If anyone wanted to balance the light levels on these last two and post them I would be much obliged [f.y.i. my monitor is dark so maybe this is a non issue for other people]}.)

Addendum: The station floor plans are coming along ok it is really hard to find space I will post what I have done soon

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 06:29 AM
you guys seem to be complicating the transport system too much.

I'm thinking that in each district (or several smaller districts) are 5-6 stations that connect to each other and the Prime station for that district (like Necropolis Prime etc). then that Prime station is connected to 5-6 other Prime stations and an Omega station. that Omega station is connected to all the other Omega stations. that way normal stations are connected to 6-7 stations, Prime stations are connected to 13-15 stations and Omega stations are connected to 6-7 stations. the max travel time is 20 minutes (give or take for missed transitions) and allows people to go anywhere in a short amount of time. (more Omega, Prime and normal stations can be added in if needed but that doesn't affect travel time).

please post what you think about this idea.

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 09:31 AM
you guys seem to be complicating the transport system too much.

I'm thinking that in each district (or several smaller districts) are 5-6 stations that connect to each other and the Prime station for that district (like Necropolis Prime etc). then that Prime station is connected to 5-6 other Prime stations and an Omega station. that Omega station is connected to all the other Omega stations. that way normal stations are connected to 6-7 stations, Prime stations are connected to 13-15 stations and Omega stations are connected to 6-7 stations. the max travel time is 20 minutes (give or take for missed transitions) and allows people to go anywhere in a short amount of time. (more Omega, Prime and normal stations can be added in if needed but that doesn't affect travel time).

please post what you think about this idea.I think the Station system is exactly as complicated as it needs to be. You're describing a system where each district only has 5-6 stations. This is completely unrealistic since each district is at least as big as Manhatten, and that's just one layer of the district there are probably at least 5-10 layers, if not more for each district. The only District that has it's own Station system is Galdren because of the much lower population density and need to transport more goods then people. But even here the Galdren Stations Line has at least one connection to the rest of the system (probably through P.C.S.) to allow food goods to be distributed throughout Ishka.

Terror_Incognito
2010-06-16, 01:53 PM
@Silverscale

That is exactly what I was thinking. I was going to but it in the University, but I couldn't find it on the Wiki so I stuck it in the Mages district.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 01:56 PM
i thought that the stations are for long distance travel, we might have another type of transportation or if need be we can add in another couple of layers downwards. it wont affect travel times that much and the system allows for malfunctions. if a terminal goes it will only affect the one route. say necropolis 1 and necropolis 5 the link is broken between them. since this only affects that one link people can go to say necropolis 3 and then go to necropolis 5 via that terminal. we can even put in Sub-stations for when the normal connecting ones (necropolis prime connects the necropolis system to the rest) go completely down (that would be VERY rare) or someone has to go in a hurry they can go there, whereas with your one you go from stop to stop progressively, if one goes down the entire track is stuck until it's fixed. plus i think that your not thinking about the teleport magic enough. your system seems to be a series of bus stops when it can really only be a series of self-jumps. it becomes so much more efficient and breakdowns are less of a problem. by saving time when something goes wrong, stops compensation payouts to people who got fired from work for being late, so it's an economically viable idea, a political one and an efficient one. my system can handle a crisis and takes up around the same space as your in the stations and saves time for commuters not having to remember extensive station lines, lists and figures.

TheLonelyScribe
2010-06-16, 02:08 PM
newD&Dfan stuff

Look, even if your system is better than our system, which I don't think it is (all the things that you say your system does can already be done by our system!), the contributors of this thread have worked long and very hard on the current system. It's a fictional world, and we want to focus on enjoying creating it. If you genuinely think that your system will increase enjoyment of our world, then post a comprehensive and comprehensible explanation with full punctuation. If not, leave it and let's continue with the POI theme. Please and thankyou.

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 02:35 PM
Look, even if your system is better than our system, which I don't think it is (all the things that you say your system does can already be done by our system!), the contributors of this thread have worked long and very hard on the current system. It's a fictional world, and we want to focus on enjoying creating it. If you genuinely think that your system will increase enjoyment of our world, then post a comprehensive and comprehensible explanation with full punctuation. If not, leave it and let's continue with the POI theme. Please and thankyou.

I have to second this.....the system is not connected by physical tracks they are simply arranged so that any given Chamber is programmed to teleport to a set series of Stations in a circuit. You mentioned that if one Station/Chamber fails then the whole line is shut down, this is not so, if one malfunctions yes the line will be temporarily disabled but within a matter of minutes the line can be programmed to temporarily bypass that Station while the problem is fixed. Actually to this effect I propose a new Organization.

Ishka Transit Authority: With their headquarters at Primordium Central Station, I.T.A. is tasked with ensuring the smooth operation of The Stations. There job includes working in conjunction with the Streetbuilders to maintain the Stations and also to monitor the flow of passengers and goods throughout the system, watching to make sure any malfunctions are bypassed and then fixed a quickly as possible. To help monitor the system they have a Great Map of Ishka with relatively low detail except for the fact that it is the only one that shows every single stop in the entire Station system.


Yes the stations are for long distance travel but so is the subway system in any major city......this is just a VERY big city.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 03:01 PM
ok I'm sorry if i came over a bit strong i just think that my system would be more inline with Ishka than the current one.
here is my system (it may need some adjustments)
tiers:
Colossal
Huge
Large
Normal
Small
Tiny

lets use an example to start. say person1 wanted to go from a Small station in the necropolis to another Small station in The Academy, with the current system person1 has to know exactly which terminal to take him to the next stop on it's route then figure out which terminal that's in. the route might take 1/2 hour or 1/2 day to get there depending on how many mistakes made and number of stops. my way person1 only has to know to go 'larger' (Large-Huge-Colossal) and then 4-6 station names to got to the right Colossal then the right Huge etc. plus the map system for this would be easier to use, thus decreasing time spent traveling. simply input station name and sometimes size and it will show you the route required to get there, it would be easier to remember then a convoluted map full of black lines and blue lines. simply 4-6 station names and your off.
on another note: accidents are going to eventually happen, stations shutting down, terminals not working, riots, etc. if you can't go too these places in the current system, entire lines shut down which can cause more lines to shut down or may be overloaded by passengers trying to get to and from work/home/shops etc, while my system is designed to compensate for redundancies. i think that it is because of these features that makes other districts more available to PCs and NPCs while the current system seems to stifle it. the reasons outlined above convince me that my system is better and should replace the current one.

PS. I'm sorry if i take away peoples fun of making things. i am only trying to contribute and point out flaws that could be fixed, which makes a more fluid and enjoyable setting for the DM and players which I'm sure most if not all of you are.:smallbiggrin:

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 03:05 PM
sorry for the double post. i didn't see what you had written silverscale, however i believe that even with the new organization there can still be improvements by adapting my idea to fit yours or just using mine.

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 03:13 PM
@newD&Dfan: Seeing as you have yet to give a comprehensive explanation of your system and so far as I can tell from what you have written your system doesn't seem any better than what we've got and in fact as far as physical space would seem to require more.......


In the interest of moving on and not having everyone else shoot you down as I am want to do at the moment, please PM me with a comprehensive explanation of your ideas and we can work together to mesh our systems.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 03:15 PM
i don't know how to pm i only joined here about 2 days ago

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 03:19 PM
i don't know how to pm i only joined here about 2 days ago

Click on my screen name next to my post and it will bring up a short menu. One of the options is to send a private message, after that it's just like sending an e-mail.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 04:52 PM
POI
name: The Planar Library
district: Mage district
Description: this library of the planes sounds like a dusty old vault down in the deepest darkest part of Ishka but it's actually the biggest source of tourism in the 3rd ring. instead of dusty old tomes filled with half-legible scribble about insignificant things. not The Library, it holds most of the animals found in other planes, for a fee someone can go there and see the different animals, for a larger fee they can pet some of the less dangerous creatures.
(plot hook/side quest) unfortunately new creatures are always getting loose near the bottom where the most dangerous specimens are kept under lock and key. (plot hook/side quest)

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 05:31 PM
POI
Point of Interest: The Planar Library
Location: Mages District
Description: This library of the planes sounds like a dusty old vault down in the deepest darkest part of Ishka but it's actually the biggest source of tourism in the 3rd ring. instead of dusty old tomes filled with half-legible scribble about insignificant things. not The Library, it holds most of the animals found in other planes, for a fee someone can go there and see the different animals, for a larger fee they can pet some of the less dangerous creatures.
(plot hook/side quest) unfortunately new creatures are always getting loose near the bottom where the most dangerous specimens are kept under lock and key. (plot hook/side quest)

I think you meant to call it The Planar Zoo, but other than that I like it. Also I took the liberty of formating your post.:smallcool:

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 05:42 PM
it's a zoo/library/biolab. it started as a few biology experiments and grew when people started paying to see the animals in a more or less natural habitat. does the people know what zoo's are? i haven't heard of zoos in other campaigns.

{edit} thanks for formatting {edit}

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 05:49 PM
How many campaigns have you heard of that have a massive city the size of New Jersey? Or codified organizations such as the Streetbuilders and the Trash Corps?

If we want to put in a Zoo that does for the Mutliverse what Sphen does for the Material Plane Ishka resides in, then I say let's go for it. I agree that it may incorperate a library and various laboratories for the study of Xenobiology because most Zoo's include laboratory facilities to study and care for the creatures they hold.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 06:02 PM
ok bio-lab/library of species +zoo added AFTER it was named (for funding purposes) thus keeping the name Planar Library
oh and i don't know any other campaigns like this.

Owrtho
2010-06-16, 07:32 PM
oh and i don't know any other campaigns like this.

I think that was his point.
Also, a thought on the stations. I'd suggest that the enchantments on them automatically account for if a station isn't working. Thus is one station goes down, the next station after it will simply skip that stop (as the stations don't have to actually follow an order), and likely have an indicator come up that that stop is down (as would the other stations in the cycle). This would prevent backup until the ITA could correct the problem/come up with a good reroute for until the problem is fixed (as people will still need to get where the stop was most likely).

As for the Zoo, perhaps it started as a normal library focused on the wildlife of the multiverse, but then the researchers there started bringing specimens to study and update the archives.

Owrtho

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 07:43 PM
@Orhwo: me and Silverscale are working on fixing the problem in PM if you wish to join in please PM Silverscale or me and we will forward our current situation. I am going to post a more detailed history for the library. i will take your ideas into consideration. i will post in 30-60 minutes.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 08:40 PM
sorry it's late my computer crashed and i had to restart.

the Planar Library was established by Lord Ad. Venture in the Academy district over 300 years ago. it was supposed to be a catalog of all known planar species. the Library was intended to dissect dead beasts only but Lord Ad's brother Misad, snuck into the warehouse the dead bugs were being held overnight and replaced them with real living versions. well the biologists got a little surprised when their other-worldly dead bugs began moving. the next few days saw the student biologists run little tests on the 'dragon beetle' (so called because it could sneeze fire) and learned more about them than 100 times that many dead beetles. after a few more days of testing the students submitted their report including the mix-up that caused live beetles to be sent instead of dead ones. Lord Ad was impressed as the report was handed in several days early and had much more detail than ordinary reports. from then on he imported live species to test and catalog.

around 150 years later, sadly Lord Ad had passed away, but his work was still being done in the academy. the catalogers of the time were having trouble gaining enough money too run and keep the crowds clear when bringing in unusual animals. during one such arrival a particularly large crowd had descended on the box which contained several worm burrowers. as the worms passed through the gates someone near the back shouted "I'll pay you!" this caused an almost eureka moment in the gnome high scientist. he knew a way to solve both problems at the same time. he hurried back to his desk to start work.
4 weeks later the renovations were finished: shatterproof glass resistant to all elements, large enough pens for exhibits, numerous food-sellers, etc.
the grand opening of the Planar Library Zoo was about to begin.
the opening was a huge success: ticket sales alone paid for all the food, decorations, renovations etc and still almost had enough to match the budget they got for a year, from 1 night.
unfortunately a fire-elemental had a bit too much too drink: WHOOOSH bye bye 4 blocks worth of stuff. most of the money that night went to making another one in magetown where people would come to see the exotic animals, most workers lived nearby and it was close to highly skilled sorcerers and wizards.

please feel free to add anything you think it needs. please comment, if it sucks i want to know why so i can improve it and make better stories next time.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 08:57 PM
did anyone get the lord adventure pun?
how about the misadventure pun?
no *crickets chirp*

Owrtho
2010-06-16, 09:08 PM
That is a rather bad pun. I'd missed it before due to reading the . after Ad as a sentence end. As for the stations, I don't have much to add on the issue. It also seems like my suggestion would work regardless of the actual organization method used. One thing to point out though, is that the paths from one stop to another aren't what can go down in a station, it is the individual stops. Thus if the enchantments were such that if a stop went down they adjusted to just skip it, it would likely help for any difficulties that might occur.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 09:33 PM
@newD&Dfan: I like what you've done with the Library/Zoo except for the pun name....we have thus far avoided puns like that in this setting so it seems inconsistent with the rest of Ishka.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 09:55 PM
i couldn't help myself and since owrtho didn't see it, i failed miserably. i won't do it again in future.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 09:57 PM
what is ishka's crest/motto/animal?

Silverscale
2010-06-16, 10:26 PM
what is ishka's crest/motto/animal?

good question.....any ideas?

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 10:43 PM
Animal:
Leviathan?
Dragon?

Crest:
Builder's tools (?) (First Builder like though)
Canyon/Fissure?

Motto:
To Expand And Prosper (in Latin)? Ut Impendo Quod Prospicio

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 10:53 PM
what do you think about the motto wrtho? Silver

BLiZme.2
2010-06-16, 11:00 PM
National animal
The Rattle Snake for all of the reasons it was adopted in early America (except Ben Franklin) + the river- the cost line.
It is not aggressive but will always defend itself but warn you before it strikes and that strike is truly terrible (the golden army anyone) It dose useful work killing rodents(ha ha dead rats). plus if we say the old French legend about having to bury parts of a dead snake separately so they don’t reunite and live again exists in Ishka (like colonial America) then the idea applies to there districts as well as to Americas States.

National Motto
I have no idea…

BTW We do have a couple of puns but they are all way way more obscure and subtle then Lord Ad Venture except maybe quandary station but then again all of the ones that come to mind are the kind that people in universe would make up and put in place so… (also they weren’t as bad)
@ newD&Dfan: The last paragraph the bits past the colon to the end need some polish but otherwise your write-up is very good.

Any input on the progress on the map would be nice.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 11:21 PM
im not making the map and i suck at drawing. i can help with technical stuff like the stations or diplomacy between nations.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-16, 11:41 PM
if someone gives me some templates ill give you diplomatic relations -100 thru +100, how much they trade (gdp %), if they are allies or will become allies. if they will band together in a war. etc.

Gallanoth
2010-06-16, 11:56 PM
Just caught back up on reading through *phew*

Honestly I'd say that a leviathan would suit Ishka perfectly as a symbol of the city because of Ishka's background as a fishing village and the Leviathan's reference to size. Also animal symbols of nations tend to carry towards more mythic and noble animals rather than what is often considered vermin so I don't think the rattlesnake would quite fit as a national animal IMHO.

I really like the map of the canyon so far and I can't wait to see the rest of it.

Also isn't the bazaar of the bizarre also a dock to the astral sea? I had at least imagined it to be so, and if so I think that the bazaar would be at least 3-4 times larger to accommodate the traffic to and from the astral plane.

Also

POI
Name: Cut-throat Alliance Headquarters
Location: None
Description: Frankie Lakree had Headquarters commissioned 45 years ago after an MI raid caught him in a meeting in the basement of a bookshop with other Alliance members and nearly got him sent to the Vault for life for association with known criminals. The others all ended up in the vault. As such Headquarters has become a place where the most important secrets are shared and kept - secrets that could bring down the Alliance and its core members.The only way into the Alliance Headquarters is through certain well-guarded, well-hidden Alliance Holes leading to the pocket dimension that is the Headquarters. Headquarters isn't used often as a central gathering by the Alliance, but is rather a place where large meetings between the important figures can occur that would draw too much attention, or are too sensitive to risk any kind of leak. Captives are taken here as a last resort to be held or "questioned" about things of vital importance to the Alliance and have their minds heavily wiped about any information that might reveal Headquarters location. Headquarters is a well kept secret by the Alliance and only the most trusted members know of its entrances. MI and The Eyes know of its existence but still have yet to actually find an entrance.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 12:02 AM
that's why i mentioned the leviathan.

the bazzar of the bizaare is next to the gate to the astral sea not a part of it. think cafes next to an airport terminal.

the POI seems like a good quest hook for Good Characters, Lawful Characters and Evil Characters not so much Chaotic though unless to steal something like nimble-footed Jack.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 12:08 AM
should i post a brief history here?

Gallanoth
2010-06-17, 12:25 AM
In the center of the Bazare, guarded by Gatekeepers, is a gate to the Astral plane as well as a gate linking it directly to The Market District.

Found it, I'm not delusional. :smallbiggrin:
Anyways yes I was thinking of the shops as "cafes" of sorts but the ones inside rather than near. Also on increased size - the bazaar would need to be much more massive to be able to deal with shipping traffic from the astral sea. Actually I can imagine that the Mages district would border Mithral heights, allowing the Astral docking space to adjoin to the skydocks with the bazaar right next to the docks. Comments?

BRC
2010-06-17, 12:29 AM
that's why i mentioned the leviathan.

the bazzar of the bizaare is next to the gate to the astral sea not a part of it. think cafes next to an airport terminal.

the POI seems like a good quest hook for Good Characters, Lawful Characters and Evil Characters not so much Chaotic though unless to steal something like nimble-footed Jack.
It could be plenty useful for chaotic characters, especially those who want to blackmail Alliance higher ups.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 12:32 AM
@Gallanoth: yeah it could work. you should talk to the map-maker though.

@BRC: maybe, but isn't that more Neutral than Chaotic

should i post a short history for people who can't find the right wiki page?

Owrtho
2010-06-17, 12:42 AM
Animal: Tanasinn
Motto:
Ishka operates the whole world.
Ishka is the soul of the universe.
Ishka is the bottom of your heart.
Ishka transcends surrealism and realism.
Ishka is inherent in every self.
Ishka is inherent in every structure.
Ishka is inherent in every system.
Ishka is decadent and may cause self-collapse.
Ishka vacumeir alles
Ishka plays with all elements
The Messenger of fear
The Child of darkness and confusion
The King of infinite decomposition
The Khaos

「Don't think. Feel and you'll be Ishka」

Ok, maybe not. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Not sure what Ishka's animal would be, or if it would even have one due to its fractured nature. Might be more along the lines of the hydra (many heads), but that fails to take into account the size.

As for an Alliance HQ, it doesn't really fit. For one, Frankie isn't in charge of the Alliance (no one really is). Also, due to the nature of the Alliance, there wouldn't be any one HQ, each group in the Alliance would have their own. However, that does give me a somewhat interesting idea for something similar.

Place/Person(?) of Interest
Name: CA HQ
Location: Far Realm
History: At one point, a few high ranking members of the Alliance were in a meeting over boarder issues when the MI raided their location. While the host of the meeting escaped due to familiarity with the area, the others were not so lucky. Soon the host began to feel that he might not have been lucky to escape after all. The groups who's leaders were caught blamed the host, and so he sought a way to avoid such a thing happening again in hopes of appeasing the groups and living out the month.
He first considered going to Ravenshome, but realized he'd be unable to do anything to get out of his situation there. Instead he went to Deepmire. While there he began studying to find a way to make a safe movable meeting place, that could be relocated at need. Lacking the time to lean what magic would be required to do what he wanted, he tried contacting otherworldly entities. No one is quite sure what happened after that, but somehow it seems he contacted something in the Far Realms, and thereafter the CA HQ began to show up. The host was never seen again.
Description: The CA HQ is a strange entity about which little is known. To the best of anyone's knowledge, it seems to be denizen of the Far Realms has a pocket dimension inside it over which it has complete control. No one is sure why, but it seems to have allied itself with the Alliance, occasionally opening portals into Ishka helping Alliance members escape getting caught, or providing a place to host meetings. However, as much of a haven as it may seem, it is not a place that anyone likes to stay. Those that wander around are often never seen again, and anyone sleeping there will have horrible nightmares (as if effected by the Nightmare spell). The tendency of the layout to change, and the feeling that it something horrible is there whenever you aren't looking does little to help the matter. The same goes for the eyes, mouths and other strange anatomical features that are sometimes seen on the walls, floors, and ceilings in ones peripheral vision, but are gone as soon as one tries to focus on them. Those that stay for around a day or more often mention hearing strange sounds and voices that may or may not be in their head, and sometimes mention encountering people who seem to perceive completely different surroundings. Those that stay too long and make it out often go mad. Even so, the Alliance sees the CA HQ as a valuable resource, and some leaders have even sought ways to make it show up when a particularly private meeting is needed.
Notes: The CA HQ has complete control over its layout, and does not need to follow the normal laws of physics or space. It may also have its layout different for different people at the same time.
When it opens a portal to Ishka, it often looks like a somewhat out of place hole or hiding spot that seems to draw the attention of those who need it. Upon entering, people will usually find them self in what looks like a large elegant manor, though things seems subtly off. If one leaves, they often will find that the exit is close to where they wanted to go, but almost always out of general view.

Owrtho

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 12:55 AM
Motto: To Expand And Prosper

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 01:21 AM
the motto fit's the city perfectly. it is prospering it has/is expanding and are nigh on indestructible due to large pop density and large pop.

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 07:36 AM
Found it, I'm not delusional. :smallbiggrin:
Anyways yes I was thinking of the shops as "cafes" of sorts but the ones inside rather than near. Also on increased size - the bazaar would need to be much more massive to be able to deal with shipping traffic from the astral sea. Actually I can imagine that the Mages district would border Mithral heights, allowing the Astral docking space to adjoin to the skydocks with the bazaar right next to the docks. Comments?

Except Mithral Heights, and by extension the Skydocks, are about 2-3 thousand feet in the air. Even if the Mages District is next to Mithral Heights it would be physically impossible to have a building in one district adjoin with buildings in the other. That's not to say that there can't be a gate that links the two all though they are already indirectly connected through The Market District.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 07:48 AM
hi silver. do you think the i should post brief history summary?
also Motto: To Expand And Prosper(?)
Animal: Leviathan(?)
Emblem: Fissure(?)
i think they should be but would like a clear support from someone before making the changes "official".

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 07:54 AM
@The Motto, Emblem, and Animal: I like the above selections but lets see if anyone else agrees/disagrees before making it official.

@newD&Dfan: What is it you want to post a history summary of, Ishka? yeah if you want to do a write-up summarizing Ishkan History go ahead.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 08:06 AM
@ silver: I didn't want to get flamed so you were my buffer :smalltongue:

@ all: does anyone object to the animal, emblem or motto of Ishka? any new comers?

i'm gonna start on the history now ok.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 09:05 AM
this is the history i have started to piece together from posts and the wiki page:

this is Part 1 general:
Geography: before Ishka there was a small lake (now bigger and the port district) that drained into a large Lake (through the undercity river Rowalaz(?)) this large lake drained into a southern sea. There was a small fishing town {nameless(?)} near a river bank on the Rowalaz (not sure which side please correct me if i missed it or just make something up if nothing exists already). they used fishing rods alot due to seasonal migrations coming from the big lake to the small lake and vice-versa.

Legend Of Ishka: There once was an extraordinary fisher-woman who was so good that when she died the villagers preserved her rod on a pedestal. soon afterward valuable ore/metal was discovered. this started a mini gold-rush. The town grew as more people flocked to the resource-rich mountains to make their fortunes. one such being was an enterprising mage called Ishkar Bolt. He was a lonely man, and like most people who came to the town to mine, the fishing community disliked him. In order to get their approval, he decided to honor the famed fishing rod by giving it a powerful enchantment. it seemed the plan seemed to fail. However when some dragons almost destroyed the town in the middle of a game underground. Ishkar drove the two dragons deeper underground with nothing but his spells and the Rod. the townspeople renamed their city Ishka to celebrate him and he served as protector for many years to come. Ishkar saved many miners. one was grateful enough to become his trading partner. with his 4th-gen miner know-how and Ishkar's magic the found the richest deepest seams of ore.
their biggest find was a massive Mithril deposit they were rich overnight. The miner took his share and left for richer pastures, and his name has since been forgotten. Ishkar used the Mithril to reinforce the city that was starting to grow around the town. He remained an important figure in the city for many years and was known for always carrying around the fishing rod that he used to save the town.
When he grew old, he decided to do one final act for the city. He used all of his remaining Mithril to build a gigantic tower (Mithril heights). After Ishkar died, he was put in a grand tomb near the top of the tower. Inside the tomb his perfectly preserved corpse holds on to the fishing rod.

When dug-out caves had been picked clean and converted into houses and shops to hold the growing population.

After the mines that were level with the canyon floor began extending upward, some miners began complaining about always having to walk back down whenever they wanted to take a break for food or a drink. One of the more inventive tavern owners near the canyon walls happened to hear this while they were having a meal at his establishment. From this he had an idea. He spent a large sum of his money to have additions built onto his tavern adding a third story common room, and built a walkway to the cavern wall and had a passage opened to the nearest mining tunnel. The venture paid off and soon he had much more business than before and began expanding to better accommodate the large number of miners who enjoyed not having to track back though a number of tunnels to the level below. Other businesses noted his success and soon began imitating his idea. Soon even the stores not near the canyon wall began making pathways that linked to the pathways of the closer buildings. Over the course of the year such pathways formed a spiderweb across the entire community extending from one side of the canyon to the other. Despite this though, you could only get to the upper level through the buildings that had levels there or the mines. Seeing this, a somewhat wealthier miner had his house extended to the upper level passageways. Some less wealthy miners who saw this decided to do the same, but had to sell the lower levels of their home to afford it. In this way the first level was formed.
It was not long though until the mines extended higher up the canyon wall. Businesses this time businesses immediately went and expanded higher up. Some new businesses even were built only on the first and second level without a place on the canyon floor. This process continued each time the mines reached a higher level. The first four levels could only be crossed between through buildings and the mines, but the fifth level and up began building stairs between the levels as well. It was not until the tenth level however that the manner of building the next level ceased to be a random spider web of walkways and began to become standardized. Along with this, some buildings and businesses continued to be successful extending from the canyon floor to the highest level, while others went out of business and stopped expanding and still other were started on higher levels and extended up from there.

Bridges are erected to help citizens commute between neighborhoods on either wall of the canyon. These bridges continue to expand and expand to accommodate the increased traffic, until the bridges themselves become neighborhoods, with there own dwellings and businesses.

All the while this is happening on the surface, miners have continued to dig deeper and deeper into the canyon. The oldest of these mines, directly beneath the original village, unexpectedly opens a massive cavern and connected network of caves. The caves are full of even more riches then their previous mines, so the digging continues.

As the miners dig, once again the tunnels and caves behind them are annexed as new sections of the city. While the city continues to expand below the canyon, massive skyscrapers are erected along the cliffs of the canyon, even as the city expands out horizontally.
After much horizontal expansion, the city reaches the lake at the end of the river. The creatures living in this lake reach an agreement in the city. In exchange for not being forced out of the lake, and a large monetary settlement, the city will be allowed to expand onto the lake.
the city constructs buildings on supports that extend to the bottom of the lake, and skyscrapers built on the water become a new luxury of the city. Beneath the water, the cities best craftsmen construct entire communities at the very bottom of the lake.

The next development of the city was perhaps the oddest. As more and more powerful mages were draw to this city over time. Their magic began to react with the natural magical forces of the canyon, and the amazing destiny of the city. These reactions created a number of permanent Planar Gates throughout the city. Seeing an opportunity, the citizens poured through the gates and began to colonize the other sides. These colonies were not really new cities, but rather extensions of the original city through the gates.

some of the newly formed Planar Gates and racial congregations began to form districts (it is unknown when the first one was officially made or even what it was as civil wars had destroyed dozens if not hundreds of districts.) for example the Negative-Energy Plane-Gates caused thousands of free-minded undead to simply awaken and form a giant necropolis. after about 1,000 years then have settled down. there aren't any civil war's on right now.

part2:Saints will be released in around a week.
please note that i have typed most of this by hand but some long parts i just cut and paste (for ease and time efficiency)

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 09:08 AM
if no-one objects before 8:00AM tomorrow (23 hours) the animal,emblem and motto will be made official.

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 09:36 AM
RE History of Ishka: That seems to be pretty much accurate. Some scholars dispute various details but the essential facts are mostly agreed upon. I'm not sure I agree with your analysis of the Geography, but like most DM's I'm perfectly happy to fudge the details to suit my own ideas.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 09:45 AM
there are numerous references to it being in the south-east side of the continent. the great lake is a desert the small lake is the port district. it seems to glide by on most posts (some posts are alternates that weren't picked up) if you want i can change parts of it.

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 10:10 AM
there are numerous references to it being in the south-east side of the continent. the great lake is a desert the small lake is the port district. it seems to glide by on most posts (some posts are alternates that weren't picked up) if you want i can change parts of it.

No the Lake at the head of the river is massive, some 50 miles in length, and The Port District is at the other end of the river where it flows into either the ocean or a VERY Large lake that eventually connects to the Ocean. The Port District is described as a protected harbor surrounded by first a pair of penisulas and then a string of islands, and is there as a way for other nations to trade with Ishka.

I took the liberty of Updating the POI page on the Wiki to include all the recent additions. I removed the name of the professor/lord who founded the Library/Zoo to be replaced by something less punified. I put up both Alliance Headquarters but repainted the first one as Frankie's Hideout, so they both have a place and serve slightly different perposes.

Right now I'm still working on my NPC group of Taskforged which is harder then I though since I have to pull material from many different places, I still haven't finished the leader. When I'm done with them I'll move on to a write-up of The Stations

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 10:19 AM
the small lake was dammed up about to enlarge it and that cut off supply to the large lake (it became a desert) the details were in the Wild origin story remember. and since they are in the south-EAST corner maybe the water went that way now that south is blocked.
thanks for De-punifing him and his bro.

I hereby give you the title of Wiki Editor SilverScale. (in deep booming voice)

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 11:05 AM
the small lake was dammed up about to enlarge it and that cut off supply to the large lake (it became a desert) the details were in the Wild origin story remember. and since they are in the south-EAST corner maybe the water went that way now that south is blocked.
Ah now I know what you're refering to......that story was overruled and never made official.


I hereby give you the title of Wiki Editor SilverScale. (in deep booming voice) Um I'd just like to thank my co-stars.....Oops this isn't the Oscars....Thanks though

Renrik
2010-06-17, 11:15 AM
the small lake was dammed up about to enlarge it and that cut off supply to the large lake (it became a desert) the details were in the Wild origin story remember. and since they are in the south-EAST corner maybe the water went that way now that south is blocked.
thanks for De-punifing him and his bro.

I hereby give you the title of Wiki Editor SilverScale. (in deep booming voice)

Yeah, we overruled that story because the Wild is an ideological group, not an ethnic/cultural minority.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 11:19 AM
sorry i must have missed that post. ill fix it. also when are you going to get around to doing that comprehensive station post silver?

Renrik
2010-06-17, 11:21 AM
National animal
The Rattle Snake for all of the reasons it was adopted in early America

The rattle snake is currently being used as a symbol of a controversial US political movement about which, accounting for the rules of the forum, I shall say no more, and also is a symbol of danger, and, being a snake, carries with it the unpleasant implications our culture has assigned snakes. I prefer the Leviathan, for the reasons already stated by others.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 11:28 AM
the rattlesnake has already been dropped. no other viable candidate has stepped forward YET. if something does we should vote for it.

TheLonelyScribe
2010-06-17, 12:27 PM
I would, personally, say that Ishka is unlikely to have a national animal etc. at all. I mean, make one if you want, but I imagine that the average inhabitant wouldn't even know about anything that united the city, much less care. It's a cool idea, and the choice of creature is also quite nice. I think it's all good, but probably won't have much influence on the city on a large or personal scale.

One thing I do object to is any national motto at all. I think that that really goes against the nature of Ishka, the whole idea is that there is no unity of beliefs, values, ethnicity or anything except for all inhabiting a (rather large) geographical area and being answerable to the same general forces. Really, I imagine that the districts are more like countries, and Ishka as a whole is viewed similarly to the European Union, it's there, and it's powerful, but you don't feel national identity towards it.

A nice idea might be to give the districts associated crests, animals, etc.

Necropolis - the Sleeping Demilich

The Academy - the Thoughtful Angel (or, in 4e, the Superior Archlich)

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 12:38 PM
Ishkarians (is that right?) do have a national identity. in the war against that city who didn't like the Necropolis. ALL the districts fought (or volunteered anyway) in that war not just the Necropolis or the districts that were damaged.
just because it doesn't have a chance to present itself doesn't mean it isn't there.
just change state into district here. states (here in Australia at least) have their own animal or 2.

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 01:18 PM
Actually I think we've decided that the people are called Ishkans...... and while I agree that most people probably wouldn't care about the official animal etc, they would still exist.

@ newD&Dfan: as soon as I'm done working on the Taskforged NPC group...which should be soonish, I'll get to The Stations.....patience young Padawan

Owrtho
2010-06-17, 01:36 PM
I suggested both the hydra and Tanasinn as national animals. Also, I'd suggest the tarrasque, as Ishka is like a sleeping giant. Most of the time it is safe, but if woken is a force to be reckoned with.
Also, if someone could think of something that is similar to a hydra in having many heads or the like, it might fit better (the hydra has the issue of not being notably large and the whole head growing back thing).

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 01:53 PM
@Owrtho: What is a Tanasinn? At the moment I still like the Leviathan since Ishka started out as a fishing community and a Leviathan would be a logical progression from that since it's the biggest fish in the see.

Actually that brings up an interesting idea in my head....somewhere I saw stats for a flying whale....I think there should be a few of those near Ishka, possibly domesticated as a form of transportation/shipping.

Owrtho
2010-06-17, 02:56 PM
Good question. I'll refer you to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY9Hzut2pVg) video.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 07:25 PM
Good question. I'll refer you to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY9Hzut2pVg) video.

Owrtho

Just watched the video.....still confused.....is it some sort of spirit of the universe? Please Explain

Owrtho
2010-06-17, 07:47 PM
I think most if not all people are generally unsure of what Tanasinn is. From what I've found, it is in part due to it not being something that can be explained, but rather has to be felt. It is generally associated with a surreal feeling or mood. Also all that stuff at the beginning of the video.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-06-17, 09:33 PM
I say we stick with the Leviathan

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-17, 10:34 PM
ok so tanasinn is out. any other ideas or can we just announce the leviathan?

BLiZme.2
2010-06-18, 12:56 AM
As to the animal I prefer the hydra the dragon seemed good but I think that would be fought as it overemphasizes the DHC I do not like the Leviathan as the city stated as a village on a river away from the cost not on the ocean and that should show the hydra is vastly appropriate do to the fractious but united nature of the city

if we go with Silverscale’s air whale suggestion that to is acceptable (to me) if it is a native to the area was tamed and is still in use I think its name begins with an X or T and I think one version is in Arms and equipment guide and another is in one of the Monster Manuals (I don’t know what number). To reiterate I don’t like the leviathan because of the river connotation maybe the salmon instead it is sometimes called the "king of river fish" even though it also lives in the ocean plus some of the stories ablot the early fishing village implied they survived on salmon (maybe there are even salmon in the river today with a natural immunity to poison and resistance to magic).

As to a motto I ditto TheLonelyScribe and to a lesser extent agree with him on the idea of an animal but a crest is "necessary". I argue with his EU analogy I feel Ishka is more like Americas sovereign states forming one nation not a coalition of nations in a federation a subtle bur massive difference.

As to city crest how about a crossed gaules (red) hammer and azure (blue)fishing pole atop a sable(black) fissure resplendent in a vert (green) field.

the astral port is connected primarily to the bizarre on the other side of the astral gate as Silverscale mentioned after my reminder and yes there is a huge astral port there and don’t forget the bizarre is directly connected to the a main thurofair in the market district via a colossal gate "rite across the street" from the astral gate and the market district is sandwiched between the warehouse district and mitheral heights and the warehouse district presses up against the port district so all the major trade is all focused in that area at least from a ground travel perspective


the motto fit's the city perfectly. it is prospering it has/is expanding and are nigh on indestructible due to large pop density and large pop.
Pop density is a bad thing for survivability IRL though this could vary well be the perception in Ishka it would be wrong though.


@newD&Dfan double posting is a pleas don’t in the forum rules so pleas refrain from it when practicable also placing time tables and saying things are official by X time is kind of pushy and not the way we have operated on this project some of our best contributors do not post and presumably check the tread on a daily or even weekly basis

Silverscale is correct it is Ishkans
I also ditto Silvescale verbatim about his assessment of your history right up and if we us it his comment should serve as preface we should also leave the raw stories in the wiki in the story section.

@Renrik well that may or may not be true it is a mater of historical record that the rattle snake was used during the revolution (unite or die, don’t tread on me …) I was unaware of its resent readoption but then again if you look I am sure almost all animals and plants are currently being used by some controversial group Mussolini used the wheat sheath and scythe for a less currant example, unintended parallels are inevitable(to reiterate my mew favorite is the hydra {I like the air whale and Ishkan salmon too}).

Silverscale
2010-06-18, 11:05 AM
Yup found it in the Arms and Equipment Guide. It's the Soarwhale, says they're usually found alone, in pairs, or in pods between 5-20. I'ld suggest that there is more than enough airspace over Ishka to have at least 5 probably as many as 30 different pods for an absolute minimum of 25 and an absolute maximum of 600 if we go with the two extremes of estimation. My personal estimate would probably be around 450......


Anyway as to the official animal of Ishka we now have 3 different fish of vastly different sizes and that are found in three different environments, the Ishkan Salmon in the river, the Leviathan in the ocean/massive lake, and the Soarwhale in the sky. We also have a Hydra. I suggest that sometime in history The Council asked themselves this very question, and could not reach an agreement because everyone had differing views of what it should be. Finally someone stepped in and suggested that all four creatures could represent Ishka. It was therefore decided that this was the best idea they could agree on and so the Official Seal of Ishka was drawn up by a master artisan depicting the four creatures each on it's own small background arranged in a square in in the middle of the seal with the official Motto written in Ishkan around the outside.

TheLonelyScribe
2010-06-18, 02:54 PM
Anyway as to the official animal of Ishka we now have 3 different fish of vastly different sizes and that are found in three different environments, the Ishkan Salmon in the river, the Leviathan in the ocean/massive lake, and the Soarwhale in the sky. We also have a Hydra. I suggest that sometime in history The Council asked themselves this very question, and could not reach an agreement because everyone had differing views of what it should be. Finally someone stepped in and suggested that all four creatures could represent Ishka. It was therefore decided that this was the best idea they could agree on and so the Official Seal of Ishka was drawn up by a master artisan depicting the four creatures each on it's own small background arranged in a square in in the middle of the seal with the official Motto written in Ishkan around the outside.

Actually, I don't mind the idea of just having the salmon, the Leviathan and the soarwhale in a circle, chasing eachother. It think that would be kind of awesome, with the salmon on the bottom left chasing the Leviathan on the bottom right casing the soarwhale in the central top, which, in turn, is chasing the salmon. Obviously, there would be inaccuracy in relative size, but that kind of reflects that the Ishkan salmon is so powerful (as a symbol of Ishka itself) that it can do battle with things physically much larger than it (just like Ishka itself).

Silverscale
2010-06-18, 03:18 PM
Actually, I don't mind the idea of just having the salmon, the Leviathan and the soarwhale in a circle, chasing eachother. It think that would be kind of awesome, with the salmon on the bottom left chasing the Leviathan on the bottom right casing the soarwhale in the central top, which, in turn, is chasing the salmon. Obviously, there would be inaccuracy in relative size, but that kind of reflects that the Ishkan salmon is so powerful (as a symbol of Ishka itself) that it can do battle with things physically much larger than it (just like Ishka itself).

Works for me anyone else have a different Idea?

BLiZme.2
2010-06-18, 11:36 PM
Silverscale did anyone ever tell you your brilliant
TheLonelyScribe your idea is perfect I would be ok with having the whole central part of the seal be supported by a hydra but I could totally leave that part your refinement of Silverscale's idea is perfect it would be awesome if someone drew this (compromise FTW)

Dose any one think my idea would make a good flag because most don’t have as much necessary details as the seal (a few do though like Mexico) I like the relative simplicity of the four outlines on green (green because the green fields of Galidrin surround the city).

Silverscale
2010-06-19, 12:45 PM
I just had an image of an enormous flag, like half a mile long and a quarter mile high, held magically aloft near Mithral Tower. Ooo ooo and the images on the flag are animated so that it looks like they Salmon, Leviathan, and Soarwhale really are chasing each other around the center....or at least splashing around a bit....and if we include the Hydra underneath then it's heads are moving and it's wings are flexing about.....I like it...."Make it so Number One".....oh wait this isn't Star Trek.

BLiZme.2
2010-06-19, 08:44 PM
Silverscale that is awumtacular

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-19, 11:50 PM
i think the flag is a great idea. the 3 animals signify Ishka completely.

Silverscale
2010-06-20, 04:18 PM
Point of Interest: The Flag of Ishka
Location: Floating above Mithral Heights
Description: Held magically aloft near Mithral Tower is a massive flag half a mile long and a quarter mile high. Centered in the middle of the flag is an animated version the Ishka National Seal, in the top third of the circle is a Soarwhale flying lazily through the air, in the bottom left third is an Ishkan Salmon shown chasing the Leviathan in the bottom right third which is in turn chasing the Soarwhale. The background of the flag changes with the seasons from white in winter, green in spring, honeydew yellow in summer, and burnished orange in the fall, always shimmering as if woven of thousands of jewels.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-21, 03:39 AM
District: Mutant Place

this area is full of mutants as there is an abnormal number of gates to Limbo.

Government: (i dont know the name of this type of government) every 2 years a tournament is held. every person living there enters. the winner is the ruler until the next tournament. 2nd place becomes ambassador and 1-100 become Elites (read: nobles)

Police: The Mutant Response Division (MRD) is peaceful almost to the point of pacifism but if you get them angry they go bezerk. the current leader of the MRD is known to have single-handedly wiped out 3 gate raiding parties in one shift without a single potion or spell to heal him.

(have i missed anything? can someone do somemore fluff?)

Mutant: i don't have time to make a race. can someone do it for me? thank you.

Silverscale
2010-06-21, 10:30 AM
you've got the beginnings of an interesting idea.....I'm not sure how this is different from Deepmire, please explain your Mutants, are we talking X-men, slime creatures, freakishly deformed humanoids........?

BLiZme.2
2010-06-22, 12:10 AM
Plus from a cosmology perspective were writing for more or less stander E3 not E4 try Limbo or the Far Realm

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-22, 05:16 AM
@ Silverscale: the mutants are similar to mutants in x-men. Deepmire ATTRACTS mutants. mutant place mutates it's inhabitants. also its closer to the surface (i imagined it somewhere between Necropolis and Temple district.). also deepmire is run by the alliance while Mutant place is a talent-based society. deepmire is a black-market with a large abeloth pop and Mutant Place is a very Lawful Good district.

@ Blizme2: ok ill edit that.

Silverscale
2010-06-22, 10:13 AM
I'm not sure about having X-men style, and certainly not an entire district of them. Perhaps this could get turned into a P.O.I in the form of a "Mutant University". Although when you think about it what's the difference between an X-men and any other D&D character with psionic or magic powers?

On a different note I came up with an interesting idea last night that was actually inspired by something newD&Dfan proposed about the Stations.

Point of Interest: The Back Doors
Location: See Text
Description: At every Station location there is a guarded doorway. These doorways open into a massive pocket dimension full of hallway after hallway of doors. Each hallway represents a different Station line with tertiary lines represented by stairways. In this way one can travel to any stop in the entire Station system as quickly as they can walk down a hallway and open a door. Access to the doorways is granted only to those who have had a thorough background check by M.I.. The Back Doors were first put in place as a means for the I.T.A. to quickly get between stations as they maintain and repair the System. Other city officials such as M.I. use the doors as a way to get around quickly. There is also a sizable population of Ishkans who have enough money to get the background check for clearance but not enough to regularly use teleportation spells to move instantly around all the time, so they get a Back Door pass to shorten their commute time. The hallways are patrolled by Mithral Golems and monitored by L.E.N.S's similar to the ones found around The Collected Colleges, to discourage people using them as a way to carry out illicit activity.

BLiZme.2
2010-06-22, 10:04 PM
I really have to agree with Silvescale on this the mutant district just doesn’t seem like it would fly as wrote maybe make it some sort of Psionic district would be the best bet but I am in general against making Psionic key to any setting as it is something many many people don’t like and is fundamentally hard to hide unlike say vesages(they are obscure as wrote and if need be you can file off the serial numbers and make them cultists), truenaming (could just be other mages), shadow magic (could just be other casters), tome of battle stuff (just other combat classes), legacy items(just intelligent items). For psy you ether say PCs can’t have it and can’t find it or you basically make them all sorcerers with different fluff

@ Silverscale as to The Back Doors I like the idea but I’m not sure that they should be open to the public if this was a WOD setting id say you would need transit 5 berocracy or political 5 and resources 4 at least to get a pass as a civilian but that’s just my impression and I’m sure they wouldn’t allow cargo in any event maybe if we attached an absurd knowledge Nobility and or Local plus a huge fee and your ok for example Nobility DC 40 or Local DC 40 or Nobility DC 30 and Local DC 30 each attempt costs 25000 gp retries alloyed (each try costs 25000) can must chose an option before you attempt the role (some one else can make the check for you, you must specify the applicant before you make the check)

One last thing besides the shops carriages ticket counter and gate to the primordium is there anything else in PCS? I have maps of all the other stations normal layouts but I think I’m missing something in PCS so I’m not calling that one done. I will post the station maps soon

Owrtho
2010-06-22, 10:34 PM
Mutants might be those with the augmented subtype rather than Psionic. Could just be a district for people who used to be something else and are trying to get used to what they are now.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-06-23, 10:57 AM
@BLiZme.2: I completely agree that The Back Doors should not be readily available to the public which is why I put in the requirement for an M.I. background check which itself would be cost prohibitive for 90% of Ishkans. As to being off limits to cargo, yes absolutely. The doorways are only standard 3.5x7ft doors to begin with so at best you're limited to what you can fit on a hand truck which would limit you to only a couple of boxes so given the high price of a back door pass (Which is in addition to the Background check cost) it's simply not worth it as a means to move cargo around.

Looking at the Wiki for reference, a year pass for The Stations is 4 Ponce or 4 gp. Lets say that the Background check costs 5 Gold Pillars or 500 gp, and a year pass for The Back Doors costs 5 Kings or 50 gp.

As to P.C.S. other than the shops, carriages, ticket counter, and Gate to the Primordium, there is the huge 4-face clock hanging from the center of the ceiling suspended over The Great Map that shows the location of all Primary and Secondary Stations denoted by colored circles connected by colored lines to indicate order. Central Stations would therefore be indicated by concentric circles of different colors depending on which lines stop at that station. Also I think we stated somewhere that there is also a Gate to CnI (for the same reason there is a dedicated line that runs between Grand Central Station an Times Square in NYC). And there should also be an Information Desk seeing as how this is basically the gateway to Ishka

Silverscale
2010-06-24, 11:49 AM
Ok so we have the Skyport in Mithral Heights, and we've established that there are about 450 Soarwhales probably about 90% of which have been domesticated, and we have a number of Airships. My questions are how many? How are they powered? How big are they? Are there all different kinds/sizes or is air travel mostly for cargo transport?

We've already said that other nations have build small Skyports of their own to be able to trade with Ishka so we know that for every nation there is probably at least 2 Airships that travel back and forth ti Ishka

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-26, 12:16 AM
@silverscale: i think there are ~50. magic powered. the size of a small house. same size. i think they are like planes: some for cargo some for pasengers.

Silverscale
2010-06-26, 10:17 AM
So are we basically talking about a fleet of House Lysander Airships? What about personal yachts for the super wealthy?

DragonOfUndeath
2010-06-27, 01:22 AM
where would the super wealthy go? they are more likely to teleport to their destination or go to an exotic plane rather then stay on this one. would YOU rather go to some tiny island on you own world or go to an exotic beach plane that stretches forever with no-one except you for miles.

TheLonelyScribe
2010-06-27, 01:26 AM
I, personally, love airships, and can't get enough of them. I imagine that they would be the main way of trading with foreign countries, other than the port. I think that there ought to be at least a few hundred of them.

On a related note, do we want elemental airships, like in Eberron, or can we think of some other cool way of explaining their existence?

Silverscale
2010-06-27, 10:44 AM
@newD&Dfan: The point of a yacht is not necessarily to travel to some distant island, it's to sail around lazily and show off how much money you have. Yes they probably take vacations on distant exotic resort planets but they also hold week long parties for their buddies aboard their yacht.

@TheLonelyScribe: We already have a very clear connection to all of the elemental planes so I think a fair number of them are similar to Eberron Airships. We also have a lot of steam powered stuff so there are probably a good number of steam powered vessels. Don't forget we also have the magic/technology of the Multiverse at our disposal so there are probably several airships of some exotic design that run on [insert whatever here]

Silverscale
2010-06-28, 11:39 PM
[Shameless Bump] If this tread makes it to page 3 of the Forum, then I'm going to assume people have lost interest in Ishka. [/Shameless Bump]

BLiZme.2
2010-07-02, 01:35 AM
50 ships seems like it may be too few ships for cargo duty alone. We have implied if not outright stated all of the airships are owned and operated by Ishkans meaning two things 1 the other nations have few if any air ships and most likely use theirs eater in their military or less likely in there shipping. Non Ishkan air ships are likely used to trade with other nations not Ishka. This is because Ishkan ships are certainly much better as most others would either be copies of Ishkan air ships or outdated modules, probably in poor repair (I would think sale of air ship “technology” would be limited for strategic reasons just like most high technology is in the US and I assume Europe ).
So you know we have 50*30=1500 tons of cargo lift for the entire city(if all are air ships are like the ones in Eberon) not counting the soar whales each can lift 22 tons. In addition, I assume the soar whales are only used in the city proper. I also want to point out an Eberon air ship is much longer than a normal house so the 30 ton lode seems too much
Similarly are we using dragon marks and refluffing them to just be spell like abilities feats we could also remove the requirements needed to run Eberon stile air ships
Also shining south the Forgotten Realms supplement has rules for a flying ship as well I don’t have a copy of that book though I just remember that.
Also in one of the plans books has rules for a hot air balloon with plain x times a day.
I leave for a couple days and people call this dead? What gives?
I would think Ishka would also be a spell jamming port if the dm has it at all though Ishkans world just see one more kind of air ship.
The lonely scribe has a point it seems like the sky port would be mainly ishkan and the seaport would mainly be for foreigners coming to Ishka. So we probably need hundreds of such ships.

Owrtho
2010-07-02, 02:36 AM
[Shameless Bump] If this tread makes it to page 3 of the Forum, then I'm going to assume people have lost interest in Ishka. [/Shameless Bump]

I don't know about that. I mean I'm interested but don't always have something to say on the topic at hand. Also given something can end up page two in less than a day sometimes page 3 isn't that that far back particularly if it is only because no one managed to post for a day or two.

Also, a somewhat related note to Air Ships, a place of interest.

Point of Interest: The Derelict
Location: Floating above Ishka and outside it
Description: The Derelict was a massive prototype air ship built some time in Ishka's past. It was originally known as the Salvager.
The Salvager was an airship powered mainly by magic designed to retrieve air ships that had floundered, been deserted, or damaged beyond ability to return. It was made completely from metal and about twice the size of the average air ship at the time. It had numerous arms that could grab other air ships and retrieve them. In order to facilitate it's job, it was given the ability to sense a radius of about 20 miles around it to search for damaged air ships and a simple intelligence to navigate to them and retrieve them on its own. The ship even had defences in case hostile people attempted to raid it.

The crew's main job would be to take care of crew that might be on the ships retrieved, make sure the enchantments on the Salvager were in repair, repair the Salvager, and pilot it back to Mythral Heights when needed.

Things went wrong about a year after the ship was made. The crew had begun growing lazy up keeping the ship and managed to convince the spellcaster in charge of monitoring the enchantments to add some more to make things easier. First they made the Salvager able to repair itself. Then they made it able to properly store salvaged goods. Then they made it able to return on its own. There were other minor ones added as well. These changes caused little trouble at first, but when it returned to Ishka after the last one, the excess magic caused unexpected changes.

The ship became hostile and considered anyone on it to be raiders. It began attacking the crew who was ill prepared for the sudden assault. It decided not to return to Mythral Tower but just fly across Ishka. It started not just repairing itself but also upgrading and adding onto itself, often using parts scavenged from other ships or their holds. While it continued to do its initial job, it also began attacking ships that were simply stopped for the time being on occasion.

While these changes were less than ideal, it was eventually decide after debate to leave the ship as it is. Despite being a slight hazard, it manages to gather resources that might otherwise be lost and on occasion save the lives of those that might otherwise die (if they can stay hidden from its defences).

As such whenever it is sighted flying over Ishka (usually every few months but it is rather erratic), people are recruited to go retrieve resources from it. It is a dangerous job, but usually quite profitable. Particularly as it isn't difficult to pocket some of the loot for yourself and is rarely complained about. A raid on the Derelict usually consists of two groups. Those that explore the Derelict and bring back the salvage, and those that protect the ship from the Derelict. The former job tends to be more dangerous but can provide an earlier pick of loot, while the latter job is usually safer.

Due to the salvage from the Derelict being first come first serve, there is often a race to reach it first as well as some competition between the raiding groups.

It should be noted that the layout usually changes some each time the Derelict shows up as does its defences as it attempts to improve them to better protect itself.

Owrtho

Silverscale
2010-07-02, 06:25 PM
I had a much longer response to post but them my computer went dumb....it's doing that a lot lately.....when I get it working again I'll post it since I had the forethought to save it......The jist of it was that I like The Derelict, and I had several interesting points about Airships....it was rather long and I can't remember all of it.

I'm also glad to see that Ishka has not died as I feared it might have.